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How are Framework Laptops?
We had this topic a couple of months ago where Framework was mentioned in a few response threads, but the overarching discussion was across a wider subject.
My 2016 (I think? It was snagged from e waste) era thinkpad is struggling to keep up with my usage of it. The screen is small, the keyboard sucks, the touchpad is not quite right, it is beyond its useful life.
I like the idea of a Framework laptop. I am leaning toward getting one on principal. It seems like this company is going to survive for a while. I think the last thing I am looking for is anecdotes.
If you use or have used a Framework as a daily driver, what are the pros and cons that you have with them compared to a similar less-modular system? How is support?
I haven't needed to use support yet, but I heard it has gotten better. I really really like my framework 13. It fits every use case I have out of a laptop at it's size. The biggest downside I have is the battery life is not as nice as something from a Macbook, which I don't know how fair the comparison is. I really enjoy the trackpad, I have a lot of problems with non-apple trackpads, but I can't say I have any of those with Framework's trackpad. The battery life on my framework isn't even that bad, especially with GaN chargers making 100w "cheap".
The ability to switch out the modules (usb stuff, I can't think of the words) is handy, but not very different from having a dongle. I usually just have a set few that I use (usually three usb c, and one usb a, though recently I've switched out a usb c for an hdmi) though having them with me (especially ethernet) has been very useful. While I haven't had to, I do genuinely feel much better knowing if something breaks I can easily replace it.
My use case is very general. I play light games on it, use word processing and similar software (onlyoffice, and libreoffice). I run nixos w hyprland on it and the processor keeps up with everything even when i have upwards of 7 workspaces open (i usually have at least 3 browser windows open, though most tabs get unloaded from ram). The keyboard is nice and fits my use cases.
I really do recommend the framework, especially if you are willing to pay the premium. I've been seriously considering picking up a 12 inch, because sometimes I don't need the full size and specs of my 13 inch, and I like the idea of a touchscreen.
I hope this answered some of your questions, let me know if you want to know anything else!
This is basically my same use case (including Nix and hyprland), plus some light development work so I am really happy to hear this.
I'm so glad!! I don't do a whole lot of developing outside of my nix config (i do run a few selfhosted applications on it, glance, and copyparty to name a few with no issues). I know hyprland just updated its trackpad gesture configuration which seems like it'll be really nice at increasing the functionality of it so def check that out. Let me know if you have any other questions!
Oh, I see, another NixOS chad on Tildes. Glad to know I'm not alone.
Jokes aside, I'm glade NixOS performance on the framework laptops is nice. I run it on my old Asus Exepert book and the battery life is pretty bad. I'm chalking that up to it being an old machine and not so much NixOS's fault.
I'm more of a used laptop guy, but if I ever bought new. I'd do a Framework.
My understanding is Guix is the system for chads.
Nixos is so cool. I had to stop using it on my laptop because it was screwing with my muscle memory and ability to administer RHEL servers in a traditional way
I feel like there is always at least one other nix user hiding about in forums and such, never alone! There's tens of us! Tens!
Framework does make it so I haven't thought about buying a laptop in a really long time (other than a different sized framework model haha), but hey if it's gets the job done it gets the job done! :)
I bought a Framework 13 last year and overall very happy with it. (AMD Ryzen 7040 Series)
The case is pretty nice. I'm sure there are better but it's metal, inflexible/light enough to carry one handed by the corner, and I've never had any hot spots or anything.
The keyboard is fairly nice. Not as good as my daily driver mechanical. Not as bad as a mushy cheap netbook keyboard.
I bought an SSD and RAM separately because their markup is excessive IMO. It's not that out of line with industry standards and there's some overhead I'll tolerate for them having to have it in inventory, etc. But they ship the laptop partially disassembled anyway as part of their schtick to make it less threatening to open yourself. I just think it's rough that the same model hardware was ~1/2 price on Amazon/Newegg at the time.
It's had a few flavors of Linux on it. Settled on Garuda for now but that's more personal taste that anything. Haven't really had any issues though I vaguely remember people had some initial trouble getting the fingerprint reader working for unlocking.
Massive fan of the modular ports. If for no other reason than I don't remember ever having had/seen another laptop where you can charge it from either side. Have a few modules in my laptop case and swap them out as needed. The storage ones are pretty useless personally but I guess its nice to have the option.
Camera's serviceable, apparently the v2 is better but haven't bothered to upgrade it.
Pleased with how it comes apart, though I haven't had reason to since putting it together the first time. Nice to have a device not depending on glue to hold it together.
At some point going to upgrade the mainboard and get an enclosure for the old one to do something with but it's still too new for that. Very happy to have the option.
Like you said, I bought it in large part because of the principle of the thing. Had a trip coming up and needed a laptop and they seemed as good as anything if a bit pricier. Would buy again.
My sister has a framework 16 from one of the later launch batches. She absolutely loves it. I personally am hooked on macOS; if I was not, I would probably have a framework 16 also. She hasn’t needed to repair it yet, but she has been inside a few times to upgrade the storage. As far as I can tell, the only downside is the size. It’s not a very small laptop for the components you get. I haven’t seen their other sizes though, so they may be fine.
Don’t have a Framework but interested in the comments. In particular, your use case and if it was worth the price for you. Or if assembling your own desktop would have been better.
Which of their models are you interested in? I have the 16, and a family member of mine has the 13, and now there is the new 12, which I'll probably give in to temptation and buy one once they sell the stylus with it
Another thing to consider is how willing to do repairs and upgrades are you? If you don't plan on keeping it for the next decade and replacing a part here or there, the premium pricing on Framework means that unfortunately, it makes more economic sense to buy a last generation laptop on sale, or a refurb than to buy a Framework.
I would also suggest to people that aren't tinkerers, that they may prefer to wait for the second generation each time Framework launches a new product line. I hear that the new 16 has ironed out a lot of issues that my first generation unit had, and my sister's second generation 13 missed out on some obnoxious issues the first one had with the RTC battery (though it has a hinge issue that was fixed in generation 3, iirc)
I am very much not shy about tearing electronics apart to tinker, so this is a non-issue. I am glad to hear that the new 16 has ironed out some issues, but I am also kind of interested in what those issues were.
You can read other reviews, here.
I've replaced everything replaceable on the original 13, and contacted support twice. 5/5 stars.
I prefer the macbook, my kid prefers the framework.
This is super duper helpful for me honestly, how hard was replacing everything? I'm thinking specifically the screen, and trackpad. Those seem difficult to me, unless theres something I'm missing
Ahhhh, I may have overstated how much I replaced, I replaced the CPU, the keyboard, the memory, the drive.
You can see the replacement steps here along with estimated difficulty.
My brother in law replaced the screen when I gifted the laptop. It was his first ever laptop repair. He said it was easy to follow the directions.
I have not had to replace the trackpad.
Most repairs are not difficult, they simply have more steps to follow.
The keyboard replacement was not so much as difficult as oh-my-god why-does-it-have-so-many-fucking-screws i-never-want-to-fucking-replace-another-framework-keyboard-in-my-entire-life.
The wireless card has a weirdly finicky and fragile looking connector I was worried about breaking.
Overall it's not that Framework is more repairable than any other laptop with screws instead of solder.
Framework simply documents all the replacement steps and if you are in one of the supported countries will ship you OEM parts.
I have replaced screens/ keyboards/ trackpads on other laptops and you are reliant on third party suppliers, and you are reliant on picking the right you tube video.
I've had a Framework 13 for about three years, and I've been pretty happy with it. I got the "DIY" version that comes without an OS, and put Arch on it (btw).
I've been pretty happy with it; performance is good (though the fans get quite loud under load) and I've not really had to do anything terribly strange to get, for example, the fingerprint sensor working.
Biggest downside is definitely battery life, I get around four hours, maybe 5 if I'm lucky or use it lightly, usually less. That's after using some power managenment tools to tweak things and swapping out the HDMI port (which apparently had/has some kind of firmware issue that keeps it awake and using power even if there's nothing plugged in, this may be fixed in newer models).
There's also no dGPU of course, so many games won't run great, but that's to be expected. I'm not sure if it would support an external GPU or not. Dota 2 works more or less acceptably, Deadlock not so much (the last time I tried it anyway).
It works well for my school and development needs, but I'm hoping some day there'll be an ARM mainboard that I can upgrade to...
I enjoy both my fw13 and new fw16, and would echo most of the positive sentiment others have already posted. I do have a complaint, though... It's been years and a Japanese layout keyboard still has not been produced for the fw16. Basically unusable for me without an external keyboard, which is... annoying, to say the least.
I bought an 11th gen Intel Framework 13 a few years ago.
Upgrades are a bit more questionable I find, I could get a new AMD mainboard and put it in, but that also requires new RAM so it's basically just the SSD that's being kept of the internals at that point. Couple that with other desirable upgrades like the new screen, new case with headphone ports etc, and if I was to upgrade I think I'd just be looking at a new laptop to be honest. It'd probably be a Framework 16 though
I got one of the "Factory Seconds" Framework 13s two years ago, so an 11th Gen i7 which I added my own nvme ssd and 32 gigs of RAM to. Basically scratch and dent leftovers from the first batches that they found lying around. Even at the time that was an old one (the 13th Gen boards were already out) but was a cheap way into the ecosystem. It's the first laptop I've had that charges with USBC and since it works on both sides it's awesome. And first party support for Linux is very appreciated, though I'm just running Ubuntu at the moment. I run two USBC, a USBA, and an HDMI and don't really swap them out often. Bought a USBC to Ethernet dongle rather than the official one since I don't need it often and that one is oversized anyway.
Looking to eventually swap to one of the AMD mainboards but I'll need new RAM for that since they're DDR5 and for my purposes even the old i5 is fine. That would allow some gaming though, right now it can't basically at all beyond very basic games, but I also have a Steam Deck so I don't need to game on a laptop anyway.
My primary use case is pretty basic, a device that I can easily do email, browser, moderate software development (python, C#, docker), Linux CLI stuff, but easily plug in USB devices. But I love that whenever I finally do upgrade it I can use the existing parts for other stuff. Since I could really get by with a cheap laptop, I was really buying into the company and future upgradeability.
Main complaints are that it doesn't really sleep properly in Linux so I have to shut it down instead, but it boots fast enough to not really matter to me. And that I've got a (somewhat common for the 11th Gen board) CMOS issue where I must plug it into power for it to boot like 75% of the time, but thankfully if I plug in my phone that wakes up the board and it can boot fine off the battery after that. I'm still very used to the battery life of gaming laptops, where an hour was possible with everything set to power saving, so the several hours I get out of this is more than enough for me.
Overall, very very happy with it despite the occasional gripe, the main one of which won't matter when I finally get a newer (and vastly upgraded) main board.
My partner and I both have 13" Frameworks. Mine is a little under a year old, and my partner's is about 2–3 years old.
We both use them daily for work (I am a multimedia developer, and my partner teaches video game programming at the tertiary level). We also use them outside of work for light gaming, watching shows on our TV, web browsing, etc.
I bought my laptop as a supplement to my desktop, but now it's the other way around. I use my desktop only when I need the extra grunt (heavier gaming, video rendering, etc.).
We chose Frameworks because we're sick of having to throw out entire laptops just because one component goes bad. So far, our laptops have not needed any repairs or replacement parts, however, so I can't comment on that aspect yet.
I thought it was kind of a gimmick, but I actually really appreciate the swappable expansion cards. They make it easy to adjust my laptop for different workspaces — working on my sofa, working at my desk, or working at the office.
I do wish the battery lasted longer, and all the usual complaints about Windows apply, of course.
I am really happy with my FW16. Only problems I've had were Linux problems (some AMD screen bug which I also had on PC).
I just got a FW13 a month ago, typing on it now. It's good.
I have quibbles and concerns about some specifics, I really like other details; but overall, yeah ... it's a good laptop, everything works. It is more expensive than a comparable "traditional" laptop, but I think just the freedom to replace the battery in a couple of years, even just that alone already justifies the markup for me ... plus the modular peripheral jacks is a really cool bonus, too.
I do like how the keyboard works and feels; it seems responsive. OTOH, I miss assorted keys -- full-sized arrow keys, PgUp/PgDown Home/End keys, etc.
Trackpad takes some getting used to, but again, it's actually quite good. But again, I miss dedicated left/right buttons (it has defined L/R button spaces at the bottom, but I keep missing them).
It runs hot. Like, really hot. Like, I can't work with it in my lap, not for long, and I'm concerned that at these temps, something might burn out faster than normal.
The version I got has some cutting-edge hardware in it, that I ran into issues finding an OS that can work with it all -- I prefer Mint Debian, but I am now running CachyOS on it (which is a very nice OS, BTW) because I run into unavoidable bugs under the X graphics server, needed to find an OS that was fully integrated with Wayland.
That's a temporary issue, though. No doubt, whatever the underlying bug(s) is/are, they'll be resolved in a month or 3.