53 votes

Microsoft warns that Windows 10 reaches end of support today

32 comments

  1. [6]
    preposterous
    Link
    As a PSA of sorts, there are several things you can do if you don't want to just lie down and give up: Enable LTSC (3 years of updates, potentially 6) using massgrave.dev Switch to Linux...
    • Exemplary

    As a PSA of sorts, there are several things you can do if you don't want to just lie down and give up:

    • Enable LTSC (3 years of updates, potentially 6) using massgrave.dev
    • Switch to Linux (endof10.org)
    • Upgrade to Win11 even on "unsupported" hardware using Rufus (which can create a bootable USB that bypasses this programmed obsolescence check)
    • Ask your (local, federal, cantonal, national, provincial) government why they're still considering Windows for their operations vs FOSS alternatives given the financial and environmental cost of MS's dirty tricks
    27 votes
    1. [5]
      ShroudedScribe
      Link Parent
      So I assume the check you're referring to is the TPM module. I agree that this shouldn't be a flat out requirement for core Windows. (It has some valid uses but ultimately it sucks MS made it...

      Upgrade to Win11 even on "unsupported" hardware using Rufus (which can create a bootable USB that bypasses this programmed obsolescence check)

      So I assume the check you're referring to is the TPM module. I agree that this shouldn't be a flat out requirement for core Windows. (It has some valid uses but ultimately it sucks MS made it forced.)

      But I have this lingering fear that one day a Windows update is going to break everyone's installs that were performed with this bypass. At that point it will certainly be a cat and mouse game - there will be another workaround, which works until another windows update that kills it. But waking up to your computer not working after a windows update is a horrible experience, and rolling back a windows update while in safe mode and then determining how to block it will be a whole can of worms.

      This is technically theoretical, but it seems really likely it'll play out this way.

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        DistractionRectangle
        Link Parent
        I'd argue the opposite, but it's all armchairing on my part. IMO, this was just a move to drop support for really old hardware and sell more licenses. There's not a lot fundamentally different...

        I'd argue the opposite, but it's all armchairing on my part. IMO, this was just a move to drop support for really old hardware and sell more licenses. There's not a lot fundamentally different from win 10 and win 11, aside from some features, Win 11 has dropped support for CPUs that don't support SSE4.2.

        The Tpm requirement is mostly for 3rd parties. They can safely require a TPM + secure boot now and it'll "just work" on the majority of win 11 installs. If you went out of your want to circumvent this, that's a you problem. Windows by itself doesn't have a real reason to enforce this requirement, and breaking installs over it doesn't serve a purpose for Microsoft.

        5 votes
        1. [3]
          ShroudedScribe
          Link Parent
          Well, MS enables bitlocker by default on Windows 11. Bitlocker requires TPM unless you overwrite a group policy. So this alone could go haywire in a windows update.

          The Tpm requirement is mostly for 3rd parties.

          Well, MS enables bitlocker by default on Windows 11. Bitlocker requires TPM unless you overwrite a group policy. So this alone could go haywire in a windows update.

          6 votes
          1. DistractionRectangle
            Link Parent
            That's a good call out, that wasn't default last time I did a fresh win 11 install. Considering a lot of installs are win 10 converts with bit locker off and support ftpm which is toggleable via...

            That's a good call out, that wasn't default last time I did a fresh win 11 install. Considering a lot of installs are win 10 converts with bit locker off and support ftpm which is toggleable via the bios, I can't imagine they'll try and force a conversion in an update.

            That tpm support isn't constant, but a toggleable firmware feature makes relying on it for the OS flaky. If you're launching software, you can require it because worst case it just doesn't run, but making the OS unbootable without the user doing something technical (it's a low bar, especially for tildes demographic, but users never cease to amaze) is just support/pr nightmare.

            3 votes
          2. tanglisha
            Link Parent
            Right, I recently tried to install a printer driver on a 2 month old windows 11 machine. I originally set this machine up and took copious notes. I needed an admin password, but apparently the...

            Right, I recently tried to install a printer driver on a 2 month old windows 11 machine. I originally set this machine up and took copious notes.

            I needed an admin password, but apparently the account we set up didn’t have admin. Some research told me I needed to boot into safe mode to set up an admin account. Ok, fine, but when I tried to do that it was blocked by bitlocker. I have no idea how to get the password for bitlocker. I also don’t know where I’m supposed to find the windows serial number, it came installed on the machine and the packaging was gone by the time I showed up. The recovery link says I have to use a student or corporate account, which none of us has.

            I’m not up to date on privilege escalation on Windows 11, but I’m starting to think using that will be easier than doing this the normal way.

            2 votes
  2. [7]
    rodrigo
    Link
    One possible alternative is to move to Linux. There's even a website promoting it in face of Windows 10 end of life.

    One possible alternative is to move to Linux. There's even a website promoting it in face of Windows 10 end of life.

    22 votes
    1. [5]
      Gummy
      Link Parent
      Just finished getting my wifes computer setup with linux. She immedietly became frustrated with gnome and made me switch it to KDE, but now I don't think she really cares it isn't windows. KDE has...

      Just finished getting my wifes computer setup with linux. She immedietly became frustrated with gnome and made me switch it to KDE, but now I don't think she really cares it isn't windows. KDE has come a really long way to making people used to windows feel comfortable on Linux.

      Now I'm dreading making the switch on my gaming rig... so many games, mods, and random software to backup and/or find alternatives for 🙃

      10 votes
      1. [3]
        donn
        Link Parent
        Modding Skyrim is when I finally caved in and just ran Windows 11 on my gaming PC bec getting the modding tools to run in the same Wine prefix as Skyrim was a minor nightmare

        Modding Skyrim is when I finally caved in and just ran Windows 11 on my gaming PC bec getting the modding tools to run in the same Wine prefix as Skyrim was a minor nightmare

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          Gummy
          Link Parent
          That doesn't fill me with confidence considering my 2000+ plugin load order I currently use on skyrim. I thought it was possible to get MO2 working on linux.

          That doesn't fill me with confidence considering my 2000+ plugin load order I currently use on skyrim. I thought it was possible to get MO2 working on linux.

          2 votes
          1. donn
            Link Parent
            It's probably easier to do these days but I want to say two years ago it was a major, major hassle

            It's probably easier to do these days but I want to say two years ago it was a major, major hassle

            2 votes
      2. ahatlikethat
        Link Parent
        I have no trouble running any of the games I want to using Steam/proton on Linux (Manjaro KDE), and modding with Nexus Mods. (I install manually, I have no idea how Linux-friendly their mod...

        I have no trouble running any of the games I want to using Steam/proton on Linux (Manjaro KDE), and modding with Nexus Mods. (I install manually, I have no idea how Linux-friendly their mod manager is.) when I first switched to Linux I was big on GOG but Steam just makes Linux gaming so easy. That said, all the games I want are first person RPGs for the most art. The only coop game I ever played was Left4Dead II, (which worked just fine), but I have no idea if Linux affect competitive game quality.

        At the time I changed, I set up dual boot, thinking I'd have to use Windows for gaming, but I never did and eventually only went back into the Windows-formatted partition just to make sure that I had any old photos and whatnot before reformatting. My only real problem was due to my old Nvidia graphics card, when I first moved to Linux. Switching to AMD made life much easier.

        6 votes
    2. tanglisha
      Link Parent
      Haha, that sponsor list has so many Linuxes in it.

      Haha, that sponsor list has so many Linuxes in it.

      1 vote
  3. [2]
    clem
    Link
    Thanks for the update. It's weird that Windows didn't inform me about this. Signing up was super easy, though I'm annoyed that I had to finally sign in. I figure they were probably tracking me...

    Thanks for the update. It's weird that Windows didn't inform me about this. Signing up was super easy, though I'm annoyed that I had to finally sign in. I figure they were probably tracking me anyway, though.

    7 votes
    1. zod000
      Link Parent
      I'm honestly surprised you didn't get the mega multi-page click-through harassment that all of my family's Win10 devices got. You'll probably get it on the next reboot.

      I'm honestly surprised you didn't get the mega multi-page click-through harassment that all of my family's Win10 devices got. You'll probably get it on the next reboot.

      11 votes
  4. [4]
    Carrow
    Link
    I've been telling my friends I won't/am unable to provide W11 support, but haven't helped them plan out this phase yet. Can I upgrade their current W10 install to LTSC or would it take a full...

    I've been telling my friends I won't/am unable to provide W11 support, but haven't helped them plan out this phase yet. Can I upgrade their current W10 install to LTSC or would it take a full reinstall?

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      Yes, massgrave.dev is the answer you're looking for and no it doesn't require a full install. https://massgrave.dev/windows10_eol

      Can I upgrade their current W10 install to LTSC or would it take a full reinstall?

      Yes, massgrave.dev is the answer you're looking for and no it doesn't require a full install.

      https://massgrave.dev/windows10_eol

      23 votes
      1. Carrow
        Link Parent
        Excellent, thank you! I knew of them but didn't notice they had an upgrade guide!

        Excellent, thank you! I knew of them but didn't notice they had an upgrade guide!

        4 votes
      2. kingofsnake
        Link Parent
        I'm eagerly awaiting updates after my 2038 MassGravel adjustment today. Fingers crossed that it works.

        I'm eagerly awaiting updates after my 2038 MassGravel adjustment today. Fingers crossed that it works.

        4 votes
  5. [2]
    lou
    (edited )
    Link
    I'm okay with Linux, but it won't support my ancient NVIDIA GPU. My processor is unsupported by Windows 11 even though I got it new in 2019, and it runs everything I want with cycles to spare. A...

    I'm okay with Linux, but it won't support my ancient NVIDIA GPU. My processor is unsupported by Windows 11 even though I got it new in 2019, and it runs everything I want with cycles to spare. A perfectly fine 2019 processor shouldn't go into the trash. Replacing it is not cheap for me (Brazil).

    All Windows versions are shit, but 11 manages to be even shittier. It causes a huge amount of random issues on my wife's computer.

    It is my understanding that bypassing the processor check can cause trouble later on. I guess I'll stay on Windows 10. Maybe get another antivirus or something. Maybe a firewall. IDK.

    6 votes
    1. CptBluebear
      Link Parent
      Don't do this, huge waste of those spare cycles. Use massgrave.dev to get yourself an LTSC license so you can receive updates for another half decade.

      Maybe get another antivirus or something. Maybe a firewall. IDK.

      Don't do this, huge waste of those spare cycles. Use massgrave.dev to get yourself an LTSC license so you can receive updates for another half decade.

      4 votes
  6. [5]
    PossiblyBipedal
    Link
    I'm not the most technically inclined. Could I just use windows 10 without the support? I currently do not have the finances to buy a new set up.

    I'm not the most technically inclined. Could I just use windows 10 without the support? I currently do not have the finances to buy a new set up.

    5 votes
    1. DistractionRectangle
      Link Parent
      You can, and you can get extended support for anywhere to 1-7 years depending on what you want to do. Even if you do nothing, it's not going to be vulnerable or obsolete overnight. You can enroll...

      You can, and you can get extended support for anywhere to 1-7 years depending on what you want to do. Even if you do nothing, it's not going to be vulnerable or obsolete overnight.

      You can enroll for extended updates for a year for free.

      You can go as far as enrolling in the win 10 IoT ltsc, and get updates through 2032.

      6 votes
    2. [2]
      Tmbreen
      Link Parent
      Yeah it should be ok. My understanding is that the main risk is you will no longer receive security updates. This could be a problem if a new big vulnerability is found, but with companies...

      Yeah it should be ok. My understanding is that the main risk is you will no longer receive security updates. This could be a problem if a new big vulnerability is found, but with companies throwing out Windows 10 machines, it may make 10 a less juicy target.

      3 votes
      1. Aldehyde
        Link Parent
        The biggest issue would be the lack of security updates to the networking stuff. I have seen videos of old installs of windows getting exploited and downloading malicious stuff as soon as they are...

        The biggest issue would be the lack of security updates to the networking stuff. I have seen videos of old installs of windows getting exploited and downloading malicious stuff as soon as they are connected to the internet, without even opening a browser.

        8 votes
    3. tanglisha
      Link Parent
      There are lots of ATMs out there running unsupported versions of windows, if that helps.

      There are lots of ATMs out there running unsupported versions of windows, if that helps.

      2 votes
  7. Wafik
    Link
    I finally upgraded to Windows 11 this past week and at least it was incredibly simple and effectively brought over my exact setup. I think waiting to the very last day possible was the way to go,...

    I finally upgraded to Windows 11 this past week and at least it was incredibly simple and effectively brought over my exact setup.

    I think waiting to the very last day possible was the way to go, as I haven't had any issues getting used to it. I'm not a power user or anything, so 5 minutes with the uninstall tool and I feel good to go. I don't use my PC for much besides gaming so I can't imagine I will have many problems but I guess time will tell.

    4 votes
  8. [3]
    lackofaname
    Link
    I'm a little confused about the ESU sign up for devices ineligible for win11. maybe someone can help? The esu prompt I got noted that it's free if my device is backed up, otherwise costs $30 USD....

    I'm a little confused about the ESU sign up for devices ineligible for win11. maybe someone can help?

    The esu prompt I got noted that it's free if my device is backed up, otherwise costs $30 USD. I continued expecting to have to pay, but the only radio button listed for me was the free option (in brackets it noted my system was already backed up, making the free option available). But, I've never fully backed up my system (aside from saving cdrive files manually to an external harddrive) or used onedrive.

    Anyone else experience similar and can walk me through what to expect as I continue down the esu path? (Im in Canada if that matters)

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      vili
      Link Parent
      When I entered my wife's laptop for the ESU, I gave it permission to do the backup. It attempted to do so but for some reason or another failed. I think I may have blocked something related to the...

      When I entered my wife's laptop for the ESU, I gave it permission to do the backup. It attempted to do so but for some reason or another failed. I think I may have blocked something related to the feature earlier. It then said that it can't do a backup but here's your ESU anyway.

      I also have three office computers, none of which have received any offer for ESU yet. I have no idea why. This whole thing seems so poorly planned, coordinated and explained by Microsoft.

      2 votes
      1. lackofaname
        Link Parent
        Ah, thank you for sharing! It really is so poorly rolled out. Once I update my external files backup, I'll just need to take the plunge with esu, and see what happens.

        Ah, thank you for sharing! It really is so poorly rolled out.

        Once I update my external files backup, I'll just need to take the plunge with esu, and see what happens.

        1 vote
  9. [2]
    TheRTV
    Link
    They gave my PC a year ESU for free. So I'm just gonna postpone the upgrade until then. My work laptop just got upgraded and I'm not too hot on it. I don't hate it, but I'll wait

    They gave my PC a year ESU for free. So I'm just gonna postpone the upgrade until then. My work laptop just got upgraded and I'm not too hot on it. I don't hate it, but I'll wait

    3 votes
    1. OBLIVIATER
      Link Parent
      Yeah I was about to say, I got that offer too, I thought I was safe

      Yeah I was about to say, I got that offer too, I thought I was safe

      1 vote