I feel like this is another Tragedy of the Commons situation. SUVs are less energy efficient and more dangerous to pedestrians, but since they feel better/safer for drivers, that's what each...
I feel like this is another Tragedy of the Commons situation. SUVs are less energy efficient and more dangerous to pedestrians, but since they feel better/safer for drivers, that's what each individual is likelier to go for.
And, in the US at least, automakers are indirectly incentivized to produce larger SUVs due to the structure of fuel economy regulations. The CAFE standards established in 2012 introduced a...
And, in the US at least, automakers are indirectly incentivized to produce larger SUVs due to the structure of fuel economy regulations.
The CAFE standards established in 2012 introduced a size-based efficiency curve. This meant that larger vehicles, like SUVs and light pickup trucks, had fuel efficiency targets that got relatively less stringent the bigger the vehicle got.
Consequently, when faced with regulations meant to improve the fuel efficiency of their existing vehicles, automakers chose to instead increase the size of SUVs and trucks to fit a more lenient part of the curve.
Oof. TIL. The chevy volt was discontinued in part because the cruze was discontinued and they share the same chassis. The cruze is likely collateral damage of what you're describing. A cruel irony...
Oof. TIL. The chevy volt was discontinued in part because the cruze was discontinued and they share the same chassis. The cruze is likely collateral damage of what you're describing. A cruel irony indeed that an excellent hybrid is discontinued to meet fuel efficiency regulation. Of course, as the parent article indicates, its also consumer preference at play.
This is obviously intentional; it's another Chicken Tax. Toyota and Honda have dominated the sedan market for decades, and for a stretch the Camry was the number one car in the US. Before...
This is obviously intentional; it's another Chicken Tax. Toyota and Honda have dominated the sedan market for decades, and for a stretch the Camry was the number one car in the US. Before emissions laws carving out exemptions for SUVs and trucks, it was import limits and tariffs, which spurred additional manufacturing presence in the US. (VW also spent a lot of money increasing manufacturing in the US.)
The US companies have been trying to shove SUVs down the public's throats since the 90s, because they're fundamentally incapable of making a decent car, and have pretty much ceased making cars themselves.
It's a sick, rigged game that's taking away consumer choice and cranking up emissions and danger to pedestrians.
I just need the space, unfortunately. Too many situations of trying to fanagle a box into my sedan, or trying to cram 3 full sized adults into the back of my car that just didn't work. Add on that...
I just need the space, unfortunately. Too many situations of trying to fanagle a box into my sedan, or trying to cram 3 full sized adults into the back of my car that just didn't work. Add on that I want to do more traveling in the next few years and I found myself leaning to at least a crossover.
I prefer smaller cars but I have enough use cases for something larger.
If there's a justifiable need for it, I'm not necessarily against them. I'm in a European city and prefer to cycle/take public transport where needed, because it works for me. If I had large...
If there's a justifiable need for it, I'm not necessarily against them. I'm in a European city and prefer to cycle/take public transport where needed, because it works for me. If I had large pets/kids to be dropping around etc I'd definitely be going your route!
I think the issue is when people opt for them when there's no real need apart from the status etc. Range Rovers / JEEPs in suburbs spring to mind, which I'd see quite a bit before I move to the centre.
Same here. 3/4 ton truck for hauling stuff to and from the mountains on weekends, otherwise it's just parked during the week. If I need to putz around town, got a 160cc Honda scooter that averages...
Same here. 3/4 ton truck for hauling stuff to and from the mountains on weekends, otherwise it's just parked during the week. If I need to putz around town, got a 160cc Honda scooter that averages 91mpg!
In Canada, both Toyota yaris and Honda fit were discontinued a few years ago. It's mind boggling. Myself amd family have driven various similar hatchbacks for ages and they are such great little...
In Canada, both Toyota yaris and Honda fit were discontinued a few years ago. It's mind boggling. Myself amd family have driven various similar hatchbacks for ages and they are such great little cars.
Shocking amount of storage when the back seats are flipped down (yes, I completely understand there are people with larger needs, but my point is that these can do a lot as is).
The Fit in particular is designed so the back seats tuck down and lie flat. Ive used it to move household furniture. Ive comfortably slept in it on occasion. Ive even used it to transport an 18 foot canoe on the roof (with the bonus that the shorter car height makes it way easier to load given my shorter height).
I'm going to be driving my hatchback into the ground, and don't look forward to my next options if these trends dont change.
And those lifted vehicles now strike pedestrians in the upper chest and head, and go over them, instead of in the legs to lower abdomen, causing them to fall on top of the car. These selfish...
And those lifted vehicles now strike pedestrians in the upper chest and head, and go over them, instead of in the legs to lower abdomen, causing them to fall on top of the car. These selfish people are trading their irrational fear for certain death for pedestrians that will now be even less visible to them.
Full disclosure I have an ownership bias for CX-5. Also US driver so specific details and units may vary. Putting the CX-5 to a Hilux (Toyota Tacoma Stateside) and Tundra seems out of place....
Full disclosure I have an ownership bias for CX-5. Also US driver so specific details and units may vary.
Putting the CX-5 to a Hilux (Toyota Tacoma Stateside) and Tundra seems out of place. Compact crossovers are the least of all our worries. The biggest concern in my humble opinion is 'mismatch bumpers'. When a large vehicles bumper completely misses the smaller vehicles increasing damage and lethality of car accidents.
Cx-5 2022: 72 inches by 180 in ( not including mirrors)
Hilux / Tacoma 2022: 74 in by 212 in.
Honda Accord 1991: 68 in x 185 in.
Tundra '22: 80" x 233"
While the minimal lift probably makes the vehicle less safe due to the he weight distribution those 4 inches make a huge difference on rougher roads. Which is a huge part of the SUVs culture in the US: Live in the city or suburbs but still have the ability to rally on a logging road. The best of both worlds! Buy now because freedom is being able to drive over all the forests!
In fairness to the Land Cruisers in the Middle East, the amount of armor plating compared to the civilian variants makes them actually survivable vehicles. If you managed to import one, I could...
In fairness to the Land Cruisers in the Middle East, the amount of armor plating compared to the civilian variants makes them actually survivable vehicles. If you managed to import one, I could see you saying it's safer. Those damn things were tanks. They even turned the FJ40 into a castle on wheels.
But, yeah, the 'lifted compact' trend is infuriating.
Uuurgh, I really hope they get banned here. The streets are not made for them, they're way too big and unsafe. It's a waste of material, gas, and frankly human lives. Not Just Bikes made an...
Uuurgh, I really hope they get banned here. The streets are not made for them, they're way too big and unsafe. It's a waste of material, gas, and frankly human lives.
Interesting to see the big SUV trend be adopted more and more in Europe. I would've thought that higher gas prices with the situation in Ukraine would blunt demand somewhat, but I suppose that's...
Interesting to see the big SUV trend be adopted more and more in Europe. I would've thought that higher gas prices with the situation in Ukraine would blunt demand somewhat, but I suppose that's where EVs pick up the slack (and also, people just don't seem to care that much anymore).
Doesn't surprise me. They're seen as fashion statements in the UK. The guy living next door to me has a Porche SUV thing, a BMX X5 and a Range Rover Evoque. He's 45-50 and has two kids who are...
Doesn't surprise me. They're seen as fashion statements in the UK.
The guy living next door to me has a Porche SUV thing, a BMX X5 and a Range Rover Evoque. He's 45-50 and has two kids who are leaving for uni next year. He's got a transit van to do his mechanical stuff with... and he drives those trucks/SUVs like an absolute plank (I've ridden my motorbike behind him many a time).
Our roads aren't made for these vehicles. They don't make me feel safe in the slightest when I'm out and about be that on my pushbike, motorbike or walking.
We need to figure out what to do to make impractical sports cars the fashion statement again instead of performative-practical (but actually impractical) trucks and SUVs. Nowadays we have enough...
We need to figure out what to do to make impractical sports cars the fashion statement again instead of performative-practical (but actually impractical) trucks and SUVs.
Nowadays we have enough safety features that the modern equivalent of a Dodge Viper is less likely to get you wrapped around a tree too!
Trust me. As a dude who rides an adventure bike with side and back boxes and still looks awesome? It's hard to do. I honestly just think we should tax the fuck out of these damn machines.
Trust me. As a dude who rides an adventure bike with side and back boxes and still looks awesome? It's hard to do.
I honestly just think we should tax the fuck out of these damn machines.
If XXL SUVs were “adopted” in Europe the same way they were adopted in the US it would be the dealers just not having any smaller vehicles in stock. The last time I was looking for a Honda Fit...
If XXL SUVs were “adopted” in Europe the same way they were adopted in the US it would be the dealers just not having any smaller vehicles in stock. The last time I was looking for a Honda Fit they didn’t have any in stock, said the factory had washed out in a flood, but they had 50 or so HR-Vs made in the same factory that nobody wanted sitting unsold in a row. Said they couldn’t keep used Fits on the lot though.
Consumers who can’t afford XXL vehicles will buy the smallest vehicles they can get, look at what a smash hit the Ford Maverick is. Even people who want a pickup truck want a pickup truck they can afford.
Please no, American car companies have already failed those of us who enjoy comfortable cars. I guess at least there will always be the Asian car companies (wishing on monkey paw)
Please no, American car companies have already failed those of us who enjoy comfortable cars. I guess at least there will always be the Asian car companies (wishing on monkey paw)
I mean the Range Rover, sorry the Chelsea Tractor, didn't get popular in America first, did it? The demand was always there - Automakers in Europe just didn't bother to fill it because over all...
I mean the Range Rover, sorry the Chelsea Tractor, didn't get popular in America first, did it? The demand was always there - Automakers in Europe just didn't bother to fill it because over all more consumers bought small cars.
Now that every Brayleighlynn on your street has her phone up in her face and her SUV, you've gotta compete. The old Puma won't take the hit well.
Like, SUVs are big. That's true but compare the F150 Lightning vs the Model Y mentioned in the article. The F150 is almost 125cm longer, 10cm wider and 30cm taller. That might not sound like much on already big vehicles but the F150 isn't even the biggest American truck on the market. Europe might be getting into bigger vehicles and they might be comically big for Euro streets but they're not American sized...
There's loads more RAMs and Avalanches too to fill that unnecessary-pickup tier of cars beyond the simply-larger-car Tesla Y and Porsche Cayenne. Rare as they may be I've seen a couple of F150s...
There's loads more RAMs and Avalanches too to fill that unnecessary-pickup tier of cars beyond the simply-larger-car Tesla Y and Porsche Cayenne. Rare as they may be I've seen a couple of F150s too, so they're definitely coming.
You can pry my hatchback Golf out of my cold dead hands, though perhaps I should be careful what I wish for with these cars five times the weight of mine.
I love my hatchback Hyundai Accent, but it doesn't have updated safety features that I want, because it's a 2013 model. I wanted to trade my current car in for the exact same thing, but newer with...
I love my hatchback Hyundai Accent, but it doesn't have updated safety features that I want, because it's a 2013 model. I wanted to trade my current car in for the exact same thing, but newer with the features I want and I can't get that in the US. I have no idea why compact hatchbacks are being phased out here 🙄
I just wanted to go Electric to electric, just in case the factor driving the adoption of SUVs was the proliferation of 'high end electric SUVs' compared to lack of smaller electric options
I just wanted to go Electric to electric, just in case the factor driving the adoption of SUVs was the proliferation of 'high end electric SUVs' compared to lack of smaller electric options
In a head-on collision between two cars where one is a 1000kg hatchback and the other is a 2500kg F150 with a raised grille, you'll probably want to be in the F150. Buuuut... they're prone to roll...
In a head-on collision between two cars where one is a 1000kg hatchback and the other is a 2500kg F150 with a raised grille, you'll probably want to be in the F150.
Buuuut... they're prone to roll over, don't do very well in difficult weather due to their weight distribution, aren't as nimble when you need to be, and you can't see anything in front of you for at least a couple of meters. They also present people with the illusion of safety.
I was curious after reading your comment, and I found this article that suggests driver deaths are higher in smaller cars and lower in larger cars.
I was curious after reading your comment, and I found this article that suggests driver deaths are higher in smaller cars and lower in larger cars.
In terms of four-door sedans and hatchbacks, the largest size category among these vehicles shows 36 deaths per 10 billion miles while the smallest reports 78—more than double. The case is similar with SUVs; you're almost four times as likely to die in a 4WD SUV categorized as small than one that falls into the very large category. In nearly every segment (with the exception of rear-wheel-drive pickups and two-door cars), the death rate is highest in the smallest size category.
considering vehicle fatalities per 10 billion miles, the average among cars is 36 deaths compared to 19 and 18 for SUVs and trucks, respectively
They seem like the kind of machine that makes the driver much safer at the expense of everyone around it (worse field of view etc). I wonder if there's data on how comparatively prone to accidents...
They seem like the kind of machine that makes the driver much safer at the expense of everyone around it (worse field of view etc). I wonder if there's data on how comparatively prone to accidents they are and if there are more total deaths as a result (even if the driver is less likely to be the one injured).
Like many, this article assumes people just like bigger vehicles just because they're bigger and feel safer. But for many of us, they are eminently more utilitarian, more useful. That is indeed...
Like many, this article assumes people just like bigger vehicles just because they're bigger and feel safer. But for many of us, they are eminently more utilitarian, more useful. That is indeed where the "Utility" of Sport Utility Vehicle comes from, right?
We've had several pickups, 4x4's and currently have a Toyota Sequioa, a large SUV. Its not great on gas, but it DOES so a lot of things well: It can pull a boat trailer with ease. It hauls a loaded car trailer no problem. It's large enough that I can slide in a full size cot and car camp in the back (more than 6' from tailgate to front seats). It hauls a lot of heavy tools and building supplies while locking up securely. Our two huge dogs plus two weeks worth of luggage fit comfortably in back. And this winter it's going to plow our long driveway with a 7' wide snowblade. Plus being in the snowbelt, I know I can put it in Low Range and lock in all four wheels, throw on some tire chains, and pull just about anyone out of a ditch, a very reassuring feeling when you often travel in snow and ice.
You just can't do that stuff with a Honda Fit, thank you very much.
ps. Last week I stopped to assist a guy who had just run into a deer jumping across the highway. His brand new minivan was totalled but in a small car, it's quite likely he would have been injured. Sometimes bigger IS better.
I feel like this is another Tragedy of the Commons situation. SUVs are less energy efficient and more dangerous to pedestrians, but since they feel better/safer for drivers, that's what each individual is likelier to go for.
And, in the US at least, automakers are indirectly incentivized to produce larger SUVs due to the structure of fuel economy regulations.
The CAFE standards established in 2012 introduced a size-based efficiency curve. This meant that larger vehicles, like SUVs and light pickup trucks, had fuel efficiency targets that got relatively less stringent the bigger the vehicle got.
Consequently, when faced with regulations meant to improve the fuel efficiency of their existing vehicles, automakers chose to instead increase the size of SUVs and trucks to fit a more lenient part of the curve.
Oof. TIL. The chevy volt was discontinued in part because the cruze was discontinued and they share the same chassis. The cruze is likely collateral damage of what you're describing. A cruel irony indeed that an excellent hybrid is discontinued to meet fuel efficiency regulation. Of course, as the parent article indicates, its also consumer preference at play.
This is obviously intentional; it's another Chicken Tax. Toyota and Honda have dominated the sedan market for decades, and for a stretch the Camry was the number one car in the US. Before emissions laws carving out exemptions for SUVs and trucks, it was import limits and tariffs, which spurred additional manufacturing presence in the US. (VW also spent a lot of money increasing manufacturing in the US.)
The US companies have been trying to shove SUVs down the public's throats since the 90s, because they're fundamentally incapable of making a decent car, and have pretty much ceased making cars themselves.
It's a sick, rigged game that's taking away consumer choice and cranking up emissions and danger to pedestrians.
I just need the space, unfortunately. Too many situations of trying to fanagle a box into my sedan, or trying to cram 3 full sized adults into the back of my car that just didn't work. Add on that I want to do more traveling in the next few years and I found myself leaning to at least a crossover.
I prefer smaller cars but I have enough use cases for something larger.
If there's a justifiable need for it, I'm not necessarily against them. I'm in a European city and prefer to cycle/take public transport where needed, because it works for me. If I had large pets/kids to be dropping around etc I'd definitely be going your route!
I think the issue is when people opt for them when there's no real need apart from the status etc. Range Rovers / JEEPs in suburbs spring to mind, which I'd see quite a bit before I move to the centre.
Same here. 3/4 ton truck for hauling stuff to and from the mountains on weekends, otherwise it's just parked during the week. If I need to putz around town, got a 160cc Honda scooter that averages 91mpg!
Which isn't the use case people take offense to. Some people do in fact need larger cars, most however don't.
In Canada, both Toyota yaris and Honda fit were discontinued a few years ago. It's mind boggling. Myself amd family have driven various similar hatchbacks for ages and they are such great little cars.
Shocking amount of storage when the back seats are flipped down (yes, I completely understand there are people with larger needs, but my point is that these can do a lot as is).
The Fit in particular is designed so the back seats tuck down and lie flat. Ive used it to move household furniture. Ive comfortably slept in it on occasion. Ive even used it to transport an 18 foot canoe on the roof (with the bonus that the shorter car height makes it way easier to load given my shorter height).
I'm going to be driving my hatchback into the ground, and don't look forward to my next options if these trends dont change.
And those lifted vehicles now strike pedestrians in the upper chest and head, and go over them, instead of in the legs to lower abdomen, causing them to fall on top of the car. These selfish people are trading their irrational fear for certain death for pedestrians that will now be even less visible to them.
Full disclosure I have an ownership bias for CX-5. Also US driver so specific details and units may vary.
Putting the CX-5 to a Hilux (Toyota Tacoma Stateside) and Tundra seems out of place. Compact crossovers are the least of all our worries. The biggest concern in my humble opinion is 'mismatch bumpers'. When a large vehicles bumper completely misses the smaller vehicles increasing damage and lethality of car accidents.
Cx-5 2022: 72 inches by 180 in ( not including mirrors)
Hilux / Tacoma 2022: 74 in by 212 in.
Honda Accord 1991: 68 in x 185 in.
Tundra '22: 80" x 233"
While the minimal lift probably makes the vehicle less safe due to the he weight distribution those 4 inches make a huge difference on rougher roads. Which is a huge part of the SUVs culture in the US: Live in the city or suburbs but still have the ability to rally on a logging road. The best of both worlds! Buy now because freedom is being able to drive over all the forests!
In fairness to the Land Cruisers in the Middle East, the amount of armor plating compared to the civilian variants makes them actually survivable vehicles. If you managed to import one, I could see you saying it's safer. Those damn things were tanks. They even turned the FJ40 into a castle on wheels.
But, yeah, the 'lifted compact' trend is infuriating.
Uuurgh, I really hope they get banned here. The streets are not made for them, they're way too big and unsafe. It's a waste of material, gas, and frankly human lives.
Not Just Bikes made an excellent video about it that explains all the issues with them better than I ever could.
Interesting to see the big SUV trend be adopted more and more in Europe. I would've thought that higher gas prices with the situation in Ukraine would blunt demand somewhat, but I suppose that's where EVs pick up the slack (and also, people just don't seem to care that much anymore).
Doesn't surprise me. They're seen as fashion statements in the UK.
The guy living next door to me has a Porche SUV thing, a BMX X5 and a Range Rover Evoque. He's 45-50 and has two kids who are leaving for uni next year. He's got a transit van to do his mechanical stuff with... and he drives those trucks/SUVs like an absolute plank (I've ridden my motorbike behind him many a time).
Our roads aren't made for these vehicles. They don't make me feel safe in the slightest when I'm out and about be that on my pushbike, motorbike or walking.
We need to figure out what to do to make impractical sports cars the fashion statement again instead of performative-practical (but actually impractical) trucks and SUVs.
Nowadays we have enough safety features that the modern equivalent of a Dodge Viper is less likely to get you wrapped around a tree too!
Trust me. As a dude who rides an adventure bike with side and back boxes and still looks awesome? It's hard to do.
I honestly just think we should tax the fuck out of these damn machines.
If XXL SUVs were “adopted” in Europe the same way they were adopted in the US it would be the dealers just not having any smaller vehicles in stock. The last time I was looking for a Honda Fit they didn’t have any in stock, said the factory had washed out in a flood, but they had 50 or so HR-Vs made in the same factory that nobody wanted sitting unsold in a row. Said they couldn’t keep used Fits on the lot though.
Consumers who can’t afford XXL vehicles will buy the smallest vehicles they can get, look at what a smash hit the Ford Maverick is. Even people who want a pickup truck want a pickup truck they can afford.
Please no, American car companies have already failed those of us who enjoy comfortable cars. I guess at least there will always be the Asian car companies (wishing on monkey paw)
I mean the Range Rover, sorry the Chelsea Tractor, didn't get popular in America first, did it? The demand was always there - Automakers in Europe just didn't bother to fill it because over all more consumers bought small cars.
Now that every Brayleighlynn on your street has her phone up in her face and her SUV, you've gotta compete. The old Puma won't take the hit well.
Like, SUVs are big. That's true but compare the F150 Lightning vs the Model Y mentioned in the article. The F150 is almost 125cm longer, 10cm wider and 30cm taller. That might not sound like much on already big vehicles but the F150 isn't even the biggest American truck on the market. Europe might be getting into bigger vehicles and they might be comically big for Euro streets but they're not American sized...
Yet.
There's loads more RAMs and Avalanches too to fill that unnecessary-pickup tier of cars beyond the simply-larger-car Tesla Y and Porsche Cayenne. Rare as they may be I've seen a couple of F150s too, so they're definitely coming.
You can pry my hatchback Golf out of my cold dead hands, though perhaps I should be careful what I wish for with these cars five times the weight of mine.
I love my hatchback Hyundai Accent, but it doesn't have updated safety features that I want, because it's a 2013 model. I wanted to trade my current car in for the exact same thing, but newer with the features I want and I can't get that in the US. I have no idea why compact hatchbacks are being phased out here 🙄
I just wanted to go Electric to electric, just in case the factor driving the adoption of SUVs was the proliferation of 'high end electric SUVs' compared to lack of smaller electric options
Among modern cars, are big SUVs actually safer than smaller ones?
In a head-on collision between two cars where one is a 1000kg hatchback and the other is a 2500kg F150 with a raised grille, you'll probably want to be in the F150.
Buuuut... they're prone to roll over, don't do very well in difficult weather due to their weight distribution, aren't as nimble when you need to be, and you can't see anything in front of you for at least a couple of meters. They also present people with the illusion of safety.
So yeah, bit of both depending.
I was curious after reading your comment, and I found this article that suggests driver deaths are higher in smaller cars and lower in larger cars.
They seem like the kind of machine that makes the driver much safer at the expense of everyone around it (worse field of view etc). I wonder if there's data on how comparatively prone to accidents they are and if there are more total deaths as a result (even if the driver is less likely to be the one injured).
Like many, this article assumes people just like bigger vehicles just because they're bigger and feel safer. But for many of us, they are eminently more utilitarian, more useful. That is indeed where the "Utility" of Sport Utility Vehicle comes from, right?
We've had several pickups, 4x4's and currently have a Toyota Sequioa, a large SUV. Its not great on gas, but it DOES so a lot of things well: It can pull a boat trailer with ease. It hauls a loaded car trailer no problem. It's large enough that I can slide in a full size cot and car camp in the back (more than 6' from tailgate to front seats). It hauls a lot of heavy tools and building supplies while locking up securely. Our two huge dogs plus two weeks worth of luggage fit comfortably in back. And this winter it's going to plow our long driveway with a 7' wide snowblade. Plus being in the snowbelt, I know I can put it in Low Range and lock in all four wheels, throw on some tire chains, and pull just about anyone out of a ditch, a very reassuring feeling when you often travel in snow and ice.
You just can't do that stuff with a Honda Fit, thank you very much.
ps. Last week I stopped to assist a guy who had just run into a deer jumping across the highway. His brand new minivan was totalled but in a small car, it's quite likely he would have been injured. Sometimes bigger IS better.