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Seeking advice to make a trip to Italy better
So we are planning 11 days in Italy in the winter, flying in and out of Milan.
Time spent in the north we will use public transportation and visit regional cities including Bologna, Genova, Ravenna, Verona, Venice and Florence.
We will drive south and see Naples, Pompeii and Herculaneum.
Any general travel advice, restaurant suggestions, cities we missed that can be reached via transit, sights to see, customs or whatever you think is useful would be most appreciated. Also I need to find a moderate priced hotel or hostel with private rooms for Milan. Thank you very much!
If you use a GPS disable dirt roads or you'll end up in those one lane roads cars really don't fit on.
When passing someone on the highway, they move over in their lane to let you know they see you and it's ok to pass. Very weird when you first encounter it.
Learn some words, locals will be much more pleasant to deal with if you try to assimilate in the Italian culture.
Buy leather when in Florence. I bought a leather belt from a street side vendor for like EUR 10 over 12 years ago. I still wear it daily. The leather is still in great shape, just need to sew it back together in dinner places.
Make sure you know the price of the wine before you order it.
All water is sparkling unless you all for still.
I'll think of more. Off to a meeting. Enjoy 😊
I think for Europe this is a mixed bag. If you're going to, learn words that don't really matter like pleasantries - hello, goodbye, goodnight, etc. It shows effort, and doesn't matter.
For actually doing things, like checking into your hotel, or buying things, I would just use English. Almost certainly their ability to understand English is vastly superior to 3 weeks of Italian duolingo. Trying to use your Italian in a transaction is just frustration for both parties.
It's a little cute, but also pretty annoying for the other person if they just have no idea wtf you're trying to say when there's other customers to be attended to.
Be very aware of scammers. Many southern European cities are riddled with street vendors that sell fake crap. When I was in Barcelona ~10 years ago, there were some who had lookouts to watch for police. They sold stuff on blankets which had ropes in the corners so that they could swoop up all of their stuff super quickly in order to evade police. I don't recall seeing that particular trick during my Italy trip, but I was approached once or twice by other types of scammers.
This is true. But a lot of leather shops set up stalls out in the streets. Prices are negotiable.
The single instance of scammy behavior I saw in Italy this past year was on a narrow street in Florence outside the entrance/exit to a museum (can't remember which one), where a vendor laid out his "paintings" (cheap photocopies) on the busy street. People would walk and some would invariably step on his stuff, and he'd get all righteous anger and demand 100 Euros or so. Most told him to piss off.
Thank you!
I went to Italy for 14 days back in April. We actually booked AirBnB's for all of our lodging while we were there. We needed 3 separate rooms so it ended up being the more economical choice - not sure if that will hold true if you're only needing 1 room.
I only have suggestions for one city you will be visiting, since we only have one that we went to - Florence.
I actually have a lot of recommendations for places to eat, even though I didn't get to try the majority of them. I have an acquaintance that lives in Florence and the following were all their recommendations and notes:
I don't know if you have time, but I would suggest seeing Siena if possible. It is a beautiful city with a lot of history. The city is still very medieval in structure, which gives it a lot of historic charm. The city is divided into seventeen districts with each district having it's own animal or symbol. They still run the Corsa del Palio, a famous medieval horse race, and the districts compete to see who will receive the Drappellone. Each district also has their own museum dedicated to their history, mainly focusing on the Corsa del Palio. The Duomo di Siena is absolutely beautiful inside and out.
Last suggestions are probably too far out of the way for this trip, but if you plan a second trip make sure to include Cinque Terre (can easily be accessed via public transit) and the Tuscan countryside (you need a car for Tuscany).
I'd say:
When in Tuscany enable "avoid highways", there are some beautiful routes to take.
The Duomo is nice to visit but you might want to take the time to go to Michellangelo Square up on the hill to get a different impression of it. It looks like it dropped from the sky on the city.
I came here to recommend Cinque Terre and generally driving around Tuscany. Luca's Old Town is also pretty amazing. And Florence is by far my favorite Italian city. The Uffizi gallery is wonderful, especially if you've taken some art history. We also had a lot of fun taking one of the wine tasting tours around Tuscany
Definitely second Sienna. It's beautiful and the tower there is awesome as well.
Montalcino, Montepulciano are also beautiful.
Thank you!
Cinque Terre - I will go back there! So incredibly peaceful and beautiful...
That is exactly how I feel. I went for the first time in 2015 and always said that it was on the short list of places I wanted to visit again. When we planned our next trip to Italy, the only thing I wouldn't give on was going back to Cinque Terre and spending more time there. I wanted to hike more of the trails, but some were still closed due to the landslide.
11 days with all the places you have mentioned, you will spend a great deal of time travelling and not so much time enjoying.
I don't want to dishearten you from your trip, but most places you listed warrant 3 nights there, not to mention some worthwhile day trips, by that math you would spend it in 4 places that are close to each other.
Venice warrants a trip to other islands like burano or murano
If you really want to cover more area, my recommendation would be to still only do something in northern Italy. Perhaps something like:
As others have mentioned, do your research on where to eat, basically avoid tourist traps/hot spots. Get lost, go down a dirty alley way, take a wrong turn, then go to that hole in the wall restaurant, it will be the one where only locals go and will be absolutely amazing.
So my home base after one night in Milan is going to be Bologna. Pompeii /Herculaneum is a bucket list item that I really want to do on this trip, But I can and will return to Northern Italy another year also. Does that information change your advice? I am open to visiting fewer cities but will likely be commuting by train or possibly bus from Bologna except for the drive to Pompeii.
Even if answering late, i want to chime in and have to agree with OP here - i wholeheartedly agree on considering slowing down your trip, especially the change between north and south Italy will be detrimental to your enjoyment. European countries are in general much denser in locations you would want to see. Regarding the time of year, i want you to be aware of Ferragosto if you plan your second trip for the summer - the country practically closes down for at least 2 weeks (with areas up to 4 weeks), with many companies having mandatory vacation periods; also, Italys tourism is extremely busy in summer, making travel arraignments and hotel booking difficult if not well planned - also, expect huge traffic jams on highways with multiple hours of delay, and extremely poor availability of rental cars, especially in case of a breakdown - even just getting a towage truck for your car might take a few hours, and thats on the highway. Train reservations are also a must if commuting by train in summer, or you might end up sitting on the floor if you even can get into the train. Source: worked for the equivalent of the AAA a few years back in a neighbour country to Italy; during main travel season, ACI (Italian AAA) was notoriously unable to be reached even by international partners with service level agreements because of the huge and arguably unmanagable amount of cases.
Not OP, but I agree with their position. You are going to be moving too much. Also worth noting people are giving advice here missing the fact that you will be going in Winter. My advice would be to stay in the North (Venice will be lovely and quiet in Winter) and take some time to explore. Then do the Naples bit another time.
As someone already said, learn some basic Italian words and phrases. You will be appreciated for trying and get a better reaction.
If you are taking a train into Venice, make sure you have the train out booked ahead of time. Nothing worse then rocking up to the train station to leave and there are no seats left.
There are hidden fees everywhere so be on the lookout. Some are malicious and others are part of the culture. For example you will pay more to sit at a resturant versus if you are willing to stand.
Do not forget to validate your train or boat tickets at the station or dock. If you forget and get caught it can lead to a very hefty fine.
Italy attracts a lot of tourists, and by extension a lot of scammers. Do not be afraid to say no or be rude if they are pushy. Anyone who approaches you and speaks good English is generally up to no good. Especially common around any tourist hotspot.
Most of the gelato shops are fake. Do a little research beforehand on how to spot real gelato.
On that note, avoid any food you can get at home. You're in Italy, don't order a hamburger it will be terrible.
If you go to Pompeii and you don't visit the Villa of Mysteries, then you missed the best part.
Wake up early one day in Venice and get out to see the city before everyone else wakes up and the streets are filled with tourists.
Just a small correction.
The additional fee to sit down is for bars when the service is at the table.
If you drink standing at the counter, there isn't any fee.
In restaurants you are always seated but there is a "cover" fee called "coperto" that simply cover for bread, water refills and service at the table. It's usually shown on the menu unless you go in very non-touristic places (where the food is better).
I was just in Naples/Pompeii in May 2023.
The site itself is incredible, easily one of the best historical sites in the world and something any history buff should visit if they have the means.
However. I highly, highly recommend hiring a guide to show you through the site and take you to the most interesting places. Pompeii is vast, poorly labelled, labyrinthine, and disorienting. My girlfriend and I missed out on quite a few things I would have liked to visit because we only had a couple hours at the site and struggled to navigate it on our own. I was able to get us to a few of the highlights because I'd been there before and have a rudimentary knowledge of Latin, but it would have been way more rewarding and way less stressful to just hire a guide. (Or join a tour! A private guide isn't necessary, but some kind of guide is, imo). I can be pretty cheap but paying $100-200 per person for a once in a lifetime experience is so worth it; you don't want to spend the whole time you're there staring at your phone trying to figure out what the hell you're looking at and which way you should be going.
The entrance to the site is also absolute chaos. The space allotted for lines is nowhere near adequate and Italian line etiquette is... lacking.
Also, we thought we'd be able to skip the line because we'd paid online, but it turned out we'd only paid for vouchers online--we still had to go to the ticket office to exchange the vouchers for actual tickets to the site (which is utterly nonsensical, but whatever).
If you do choose to go on your own (which as I said, I don't recommend), make sure you grab one of the fantastic maps at the information desk on the way into the site. I'd downloaded a map to my phone but a physical map is just so much better for actually seeing where you are and where you want to go than a 3x5 inch touchscreen display. (A tablet would work too, but I still recommend the map).
Enjoy your trip! :) And make sure to grab some pizza and limoncello while you're in Naples--the city is famed for both (being the birthplace of pizza and all).
Thank you
I've never been to Europe, so my advice is super generic; spend some time by the sea. Consider a whole beach day. An endless expanse of water without the noise of everyday living is so refreshing; it's good for your soul.
Thank you!
You're not wrong, but considering OP is going to northern Italy in winter, an entire day might not be such a good idea. Most days in winter, the Med is a very wet and windy place. The storms rolling in from the west and south can be legendary. They are the reason the Romans stopped practically all ship traffic in autumn.
Went with my wife and 2 older kids in November to Venice Verona and Milan. You will have a great time.
Milan was the biggest one I was unsure about but there is an option to go on a walking tour on the TOP of the Milan Duomo. I love visiting cathedrals in Europe anyway and Milan's is great, but I have never been up among the gargoyles.
Venice is beautiful but get out early and see St Mark's square before it gets too full. Yes there are lots of tourists but the same is true of all amazing places. It is worth seeing. Now for eating get away from the touristy places a bit.
Are you American perchance?
I don't mean that in a bad way, just that Americans tend to create an itinerary and figure that 11 days means 11 places. It's not 11 countries though so I'll give you that.
But I implore you: Do less. You will not enjoy the Italian roads as much as all the other parts, be it nature, cities, or otherwise.
This advise goes in general for any Statian looking to travel Europe or a country in Europe. You will enjoy it more if you take the time to enjoy it more.
I am American. I hadn't planned to share this information, just because with repeated interactions we all learn about each other, but I will be primarily staying in someone's home unless it proves totally unworkable. So, having said that, can you add to your advice? I can definitely cut my itinerary but I also want to see more than Bologna and environs and a 1 or 2 hour train ride each way to see cool sites seems like an ok way to spend some time.
I'm on the phone so forgive me if I'll be not really exhaustive.
Italy is a country formed by regions. These regions are not only political or geographical but historical as well. What this means is that every region (Tuscany, Lazio, Campania, Piemonte, etc) have their own strong identity, history, customs and culture.
Doing X days for X cities only means you have passed from there.
As a Californian I can say that something similar about regions is true for the US although our regions are much larger and our (post-colonisation) history is shorter. Although that is modified by the fact that each family has a specific heritage around coming to this country unless they are indigenous, even if they are strictly of anglo descent.
For this trip I will have the opportunity to experience Bologna in the way that you suggest, but I also want to see some art and some architecture and some roman ruins that are not there. It's tourism.
Don't go to Rome. Don't go to Venice. There are just way, way too many tourists to make it worth going here. You'll enjoy things oh so much more going anywhere else instead. The whole country is steeped in so much history you won't be missing out either.
Spend at least two nights in every town you actually want to see. This gives time to wander around the quirky, small roads, to relax, enjoy good food and not spend your entire holiday thinking about logistics, your next museum/stop/meal/leg of the journey.
Going in the winter is an excellent idea.
Thank you!
I have to disagree with @nacho.
I enjoyed Venice for the unique experience that it offers (although wouldn’t recommend more than a couple days). Seeing a glass factory and the amazing art they create was my highlight.
Rome was fantastic as well. We visited the Forum, the Vatican, museums and spent days just tooling around taking in the sights and rich history.
Verona was a disappointment for me. It was crowded and aside from their amphitheater wasn’t all that great. Its claim to fame is the Juliette house which is really just an over crowded tourist trap.
Thank you. I might substitute Sienna per the other poster's suggestion, or just add an extra day somewhere I am already going.
It's true that there is history everywhere in Italy but the main cities are "main" for a reason.
Rome is very chaotic however but you should have a chill experience visiting even just Tuscany and Florence along the other towns around the region.
I want to add, as an Italian (tuscanian specifically) that when I hear people visiting "Italy" in a couple weeks I feel for them.
That's not enough time and everything will feel rushed.
Italy is to be enjoyed slowly. decide for a region and stay there going around for a week.
The next time, pick another region, it will be a completely different experience.
I will actually be visiting someone's home in Bologna and making side trips from there. I am really looking forward to it. Thank you for your advice. I will do my best to slow down while also making the most of this opportunity.
I recently spent about 10 days in Rome. I had plans to visit all kinds of places on day trips but ended up just staying in Rome the entire time because it was so dense with things to see and do.
Rome is going to be a trip for a different year.
When driving, beware the dreaded ZTLs, or you may get a very expensive surprise some time after you get home.
Two friends of mine went to italy separately.
A good way to differentiate tourist restaurants from local ones is by comparing the price of their aperol spritz. In the latter the spritz is much cheaper (I think it was around 3€)