Imagine thinking too much leisure is the worst thing about a country.
But the worst part of Berlin — or Germany, in general — has got to be the workplace. No one, neither Americans nor Germans, will agree with me on this, but I staunchly believe that 30 vacation days per year is TOO MANY VACATION DAYS. Throw a rock at any Berlin workplace, and you can bet that it’s rife with absenteeism and chaos.
This is what happens when people are constantly going away on hikes or visits to friends in Switzerland and Vienna. Trust me when I say that I have successfully worked at four separate Berlin-based companies, and I have never had to do more than two actual days of work per week.
Imagine thinking too much leisure is the worst thing about a country.
I could go on about the lack of taste. For example, Berlin is home to the worst-dressed people in the world. Everyone looks like they’ve assaulted a thrift store, but coincidentally this thrift store only carried everything two sizes too big. In time, one learns that the bad outfits are there to draw attention away from even-worse haircuts (no one on the planet besides Zendaya should be attempting micro bangs).
I didn't get the 30 vacation day thing because it is something a lot of Europeans are used to, but in some parts of Berlin, there is an oversized 80s vibe to how people dress. Berlin is pretty...
I didn't get the 30 vacation day thing because it is something a lot of Europeans are used to, but in some parts of Berlin, there is an oversized 80s vibe to how people dress.
Berlin is pretty big, the author seems to have chosen to live in the 'hipster' and 'edgy' parts and then complained about it as if it was all that Berlin was. There is a whole dull world underneath all that with chill people that don't take part in whatever the author is complaining about.
I mean I'm in Denmark and I have an American friend who genuinely does think we are unproductive etc. She would probably agree with this part - but she does have the most intense work ethic I've...
I mean I'm in Denmark and I have an American friend who genuinely does think we are unproductive etc. She would probably agree with this part - but she does have the most intense work ethic I've ever seen, so it's no surprise that she thinks everyone below her level is lazy. Like she thinks her wife is lazy for not picking up extra hours on the weekends for example, despite already working a full time job. (She is actually a lovely person lol, this is just one tiny aspect of her)
Sorry, couldn't help myself there. This truly sounds like someone who either has Stockholm syndrome or has been indoctrinated entirely by US companies (possibly both). I fully believe she is an...
the most intense fucked up work ethic
Sorry, couldn't help myself there. This truly sounds like someone who either has Stockholm syndrome or has been indoctrinated entirely by US companies (possibly both).
I fully believe she is an otherwise lovely person.
Yeah I agree kinda. But she was grew up in a remote area and was homeschooled, so with that level of education she really did always have to work really hard to make a living
Yeah I agree kinda. But she was grew up in a remote area and was homeschooled, so with that level of education she really did always have to work really hard to make a living
I wonder if this issue is less about time-off, and instead maybe not well managed time-off? Like at my work here in the US, we're largely not allowed to take time off in May/June, other than...
I wonder if this issue is less about time-off, and instead maybe not well managed time-off? Like at my work here in the US, we're largely not allowed to take time off in May/June, other than holidays (Memorial Day, Juneteenth, and an employee's birthday if it's in those months). Because our big event of the year is in June and it's all hands on deck with planning, preparation, and execution. But afterwards, you better believe like half the office is gone for like a week or two, or sometimes more.
But yeah, I don't see how 30 days is too much. I have 27 days + lots of holidays. Plus we're off and paid between Christmas Eve and New Years Day, for free. I still think it's not enough. As long as it's well-managed, vacations should never be a problem.
The author surely is talking about the latter although being satirical about the former. Germans see their vacation time as a god given right, and good for them for standing up for it, but any...
The author surely is talking about the latter although being satirical about the former. Germans see their vacation time as a god given right, and good for them for standing up for it, but any kind of planning around that circumstance seems to get lost. A lot of organizations both large and small do become chaotic at times because so-and-so is on vacation for three weeks and that's their job, please wait until they return. Or someone else is covering for them but doesn't really understand how or what to do and is already working two or three other duties in the office so they don't really have the bandwidth anyway.
American culture around work and leisure time is definitely problematic but I see this comparison as a kind of somewhere in between would be ideal situation. Americans would do better to have more vacation days (and actually take them!) and the Germans might learn a little by planning around keeping operations for the customer going or at least thinking a little more outside the box to bend and skirt rules to keep things flowing at times.
This is not a German strong suit lol, so I wouldn't hold your breath. I will say working for an American company with a good vacation policy/culture but under a German job contract is very close...
at least thinking a little more outside the box to bend and skirt rules to keep things flowing at times
This is not a German strong suit lol, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
I will say working for an American company with a good vacation policy/culture but under a German job contract is very close to the best of both worlds on that front.
I had 30 vacation days per year for years. Now it doesn't count because I'm essentially my own boss. I never, not even once, thought "Oh, what an awful time of leisure and rest! God, please, give...
I had 30 vacation days per year for years. Now it doesn't count because I'm essentially my own boss. I never, not even once, thought "Oh, what an awful time of leisure and rest! God, please, give me some work!".
Couldn't believe it when I read that, has to be satire of some sort, surely. She'd freak out at my job, I get 42 holiday days a year with the ability to build up and use 20 flexi days a year and I...
Couldn't believe it when I read that, has to be satire of some sort, surely.
She'd freak out at my job, I get 42 holiday days a year with the ability to build up and use 20 flexi days a year and I can carry a maximum of 8 days over. So if I played my cards right, I could maximise my holiday time and get 70 days off a year!
The thing about the N-word is a bit of projection I think. To understand why it is not just bad but very racist to say the N-word, you have to be aquanted with US history on slavery. The writer...
The thing about the N-word is a bit of projection I think. To understand why it is not just bad but very racist to say the N-word, you have to be aquanted with US history on slavery. The writer pretty much assumes that people in Germany should all just know this, but never considers the culture difference. The work thing also feels like a projection of American culture ("Work means individuality, performance and innovation") instead of German work culture ("You get paid to do something specific correctly in a strict context and time-frame"). All in all, it just seems like they don't understand German culture and write it off as wrong.
Now, the graffiti and art stuff is true: Berlin have a "edgy-teen" reputation among Germans as well, this is widely known (as far as I know).
My experience confirms this. I grew up in the 90s in a post-communist neighbor of Germany and I remember that even when racism against the Roma was rampant in the 90s and neonazis repeatedly tried...
The thing about the N-word is a bit of projection I think. To understand why it is not just bad but very racist to say the N-word, you have to be aquanted with US history on slavery. The writer pretty much assumes that people in Germany should all just know this, but never considers the culture difference.
My experience confirms this. I grew up in the 90s in a post-communist neighbor of Germany and I remember that even when racism against the Roma was rampant in the 90s and neonazis repeatedly tried to organize pogroms, almost everyone apart from said literal neonazis was like "well I hate gypsies, but I've nothing against black people, they're cool".
Then with the boom of mainstream rap music suddenly our media was flooded with either literal ex gangsters or gangsta-wannabes saying the n word in every other sentence and those same people were like "wow, this is what black people are like? I guess I don't like blacks now!" Naturally they had very little idea about american history or even current reality and mostly based their opinions on largely shitty popculture imports.
It almost felt like we had to import this kind of racism first. But nobody thought of importing US history, of course, why would they. Fortunately since it was imported, it didn't catch on that much, and people who base their opinions on popculture don't tend to have too long attention spans.
Adding to that, the idea of a word being banned is just completely foreign to most of us. Some people literally view banning the n-word (and I mean banning it regardless of context, banning its usage as a direct slur is completely different) as so foreign as reading about the world of Harry Potter banning the word Voldemort. Nothing similar exists here.
The author also says this, which I think is funny:
Take the white people here, for instance. I have possibly never seen so many white people with dreadlocks.
Our minister for regional development is literally a white dude with dreadlocks who's a psytrance DJ (with a PhD, as is the custom here). I hope she doesn't come here next.
There was a recent case here in Germany's Hat (Denmark) where American students walked out of a lecture in Copenhagen University because the professor used the n-word. It caused a huge uproar,...
There was a recent case here in Germany's Hat (Denmark) where American students walked out of a lecture in Copenhagen University because the professor used the n-word. It caused a huge uproar, because they felt they were so justified that I believe they even got a bunch of signatures for a letter of complaint. But like you say, it's simply a cultural difference and we do not have the same context for the word that you do in the US. The professor wasn't even using it to speak for himself, he was quoting a historical text.
Right or wrong, I don't know. But it's certainly a hell of a cultural difference
What I find interesting and actually funny, in the literal sense, at times is how Germans view Americans as boorish for our tendency to make jokes about WW2/Nazis/Hitler. Here that is obviously...
What I find interesting and actually funny, in the literal sense, at times is how Germans view Americans as boorish for our tendency to make jokes about WW2/Nazis/Hitler. Here that is obviously not socially acceptable outside of close friend groups but they assume we should just know better and have a little more tact than to do it, and I admit they do have a point, but on the flip side they go around saying the N-word with no consideration to the weight it carries for people from the US despite how glaringly obvious from American media (outside of hip-hop/rap culture) how negative that word is.
It's the classic tale of two cultures misunderstanding each other and a golden opportunity for both of us to learn a little more tact and grace. Hearing my European friends casually drop N-bombs would make me physically jump at first but now I find it amusing in a they-don't-know-better type of way.
I think it deserves mentioning that all that baggage doesn't really make it out of the US, beyond social media outrage if someone did say it. Like, if I wasn't so online and only slightly more...
but on the flip side they go around saying the N-word with no consideration to the weight it carries for people from the US despite how glaringly obvious from American media (outside of hip-hop/rap culture) how negative that word is.
I think it deserves mentioning that all that baggage doesn't really make it out of the US, beyond social media outrage if someone did say it. Like, if I wasn't so online and only slightly more naive, all I would know is that it's used in a positive way in rap culture. And sure, there's more-or-less equivalent words in German - we have "Neger" which is so old fashioned it's more a curiosity if someone actually still uses it. "Negro" even more so, makes you sound like you're born in 1880, with monocle, pipe and top hat. The btter point of comparison though are slurs that carry similar amount of punch that upstanding Germans avoid like the plague, mostly for groups which have suffered discrimination more consistently and at greater scale - Turks, Roma, Jews.
What I find the most interesting aspect of this all though is that there seems to be a better understanding of use-mention-distinction in Germany. I feel like I could quote bad words here if I needed to. There's no "K-Wort" for referring to a slur about Turkish people. You either use the word, in which case you're probably an asshole. Or you mention the word, in which case you're not using it, and that's generally an understood distinction; perhaps you do it because it's important to convey exactly what is said. Or if you want to keep it really proper, you just report that "X called Y by a racist slur" and that might also be all the information you need. There's no dancing around it, you either mention the word, or you don't. In that way, it isn't that "we don't know any better", it's just that some things that count as dropping an n-bomb in the US are here simply considered quoting someone who did.
how Germans view Americans as boorish for our tendency to make jokes about WW2/Nazis/Hitler.
On that I'd just like to add that there's quite a whole host of jokes you can make here that are entirely acceptable. I feel like the line of what is too much is a bit different between the US and Germany. For example, mockery of a certain failed Austrian artist and his drug habits is fully accepted. I imagine there's less room for tongue-in-cheek glorification, as Germans don't do tongue-in-cheek, ever. (/s) There's also certain topics around the victims of the regime that are, after 80 years, still a bit of a case of "too soon". And while I'm sure Americans would agree that it's no good to make light of victims, who is or isn't a victim is a matter of historical debate. I'm sure jokes to the effect of "all nazi soldiers were nazis" go over real well with grandkids of drafted soldiers, and there certainly is some heightened sensitivity around who's to blame for the horrors of that time. I do wonder what jokes you think are considered on different sides of the red line in the US vs in Germany.
For what it's worth, this is a thing for most swesr words and slurs other than the n-word across languages, including in English. Back when I studied linguistics formally I went to a workshop on...
What I find the most interesting aspect of this all though is that there seems to be a better understanding of use-mention-distinction in Germany.
For what it's worth, this is a thing for most swesr words and slurs other than the n-word across languages, including in English. Back when I studied linguistics formally I went to a workshop on social meaning that had a big focus on profanity and slurs, and it was pretty universally agreed upon that the way the use-mention distinction pretty much fails to function for the n-word in English is interesting and rather unique, to the extent that there have been various attempts at coming up with formal linguistic theories about how it functioned and why it was different from other slurs.
Anyway I don't feel like I've encountered many Germans using the n-word at all, and I've been living in/around Berlin for 5 years. It hasn't really come up much. I will confess I feel a bit uncomfortable when I hear German youths use "Digga" due to the similar sound, but that's my own hangup.
I recall reading about "digga" being basically a sterilized appropriation of the n-word, originating in German hip hop. Not sure if it was academically sound to a linguist's standards though.
I recall reading about "digga" being basically a sterilized appropriation of the n-word, originating in German hip hop. Not sure if it was academically sound to a linguist's standards though.
I don't really think this is true, because I think there's a general understanding that the word is racist (any dictionary will include a label saying "derogatory/pejorative") among most English...
To understand why it is not just bad but very racist to say the N-word, you have to be aquanted [sic] with US history on slavery.
I don't really think this is true, because I think there's a general understanding that the word is racist (any dictionary will include a label saying "derogatory/pejorative") among most English speakers. Even if you think "the reasoning is US specific" the fact that other people think it's racist/offensive essentially makes it true, because they will know that a very large number of English speakers consider the term racist, so choosing to use it kind of says something about you.
It's like how Germans hanging up Confederate flags can say wink, wink "I am not acquainted with the US history on slavery" but we all know that they're sending a very specific message.
At the end of this article is a little note that says: "You are reading a pseudonymous post from a friendly neighborhood writer as part of our limited-run Hate Read pop-up newsletter! These are...
Exemplary
At the end of this article is a little note that says: "You are reading a pseudonymous post from a friendly neighborhood writer as part of our limited-run Hate Read pop-up newsletter! These are not real names! Stop trying to Google them lol!"
I was curious, and read the rest of the "Hate Read" articles. Ironically, they're all so bad I feel the need to write about them here. I don't quite know what brief the writers got for these articles, but the whole idea of "just whine about shit that doesn't matter for a few hundred words" makes me sad. The intro to the series ends with "But what if, in the end, sowing discord, snark and a healthy spray of cattiness is what really brings us all together?" as if the idea of complaining about stuff is a new concept and not 90% of internet traffic that isn't pornography. It's not really the kind of conversation that we need more of, is it? But who knows, maybe my optimism is more common than I think it is, and I just so happen to miss a large chunk of positive online discussion.
In the interest of cultural exchange, I'll leave this well-known german copy-pasta here. In the interest of providing an authentic german copy-pasta experience, I'll leave the machine translation...
In the interest of cultural exchange, I'll leave this well-known german copy-pasta here. In the interest of providing an authentic german copy-pasta experience, I'll leave the machine translation completely intact:
Oh Berlin. What is Berlin? Berlin is the city that Germans should be ashamed of on the international stage. If you compare Berlin with other European capitals such as London, Paris, Madrid and Amsterdam, it makes any decent person's face turn red with shame. Even small countries such as Austria, Belgium or Switzerland have internationally presentable cities with a high quality of life in Vienna, Brussels and Zurich. Germany is punished with Berlin, the capital of failure. Berlin is home to by far the most assholes in the entire country. Deutsche Bahn, the Bundestag, Air Berlin and the Axel Springer publishing house are just a few examples of the incompetent scum that are housed here.
Glorious times are long gone, this city is on its knees. The Berliner is a lazy bastard through and through. Character traits that would be considered pure laziness, unfriendliness, incompetence, dissocial personality disorder and stupidity in any civilized culture are declared by Berliners to be Berlin characteristics without further ado. Another central characteristic is the all-dominant inferiority complex. This is why Berliners project massive feelings of hatred onto anyone who is better than them in any way. The southern Germans in particular, who are vastly superior to him in all respects, are a thorn in his side. He envies their success and Munich is at the top of his hate list. This city is everything and has everything the Berliner would like to be and have. The fact that Munich finances the Berliner's lottery life is of no interest to the Berliner, he even secretly believes he deserves it. Instead of freeing himself from his lethargy caused by envy and resentment and turning his city around, he indulges in asocial parasitism and still thinks highly of his supposed cosmopolitan city.
Culturally, Berlin is rather weak, with great works dating back a long time. Even pronouncing the letter "g" as a "j" is considered a great cultural achievement here. Advanced learners can even add a "wa?" to the end of every sentence. The level of performance in the kitchen is at a manageable level. A sausage made from ground seperator meat with ketchup and curry spice is sold here as a currywurst and a stroke of culinary genius. Any sensible person would hardly consider a sausage with ketchup to be the holy grail of culinary art and probably not even a recipe. The rest of the republic generously allows Berliners to believe this so that their inferiority complexes don't get the better of them
Economically, Berlin is a disaster, even the late GDR was more solid. Apart from that, Berlin's economy is based on alternative blogs, something to do with media and gender studies, if the universities are to be believed.Despite the economic bankruptcy, Berliners still afford prestige projects such as the City Palace and an airport that is supposed to be an art project due to its lack of functionality.This city is also home to all the headquarters of the people's parties, which for marketing reasons do without the "traitor" in their names.For a long time, the mayor of this city was the jolly Wowibär, whose prestige and prosecco politics dragged everything that was still halfway presentable into the abyss.
In short: Berlin is Germany's tile table.It is to Germany what Greece is to the European Union and if Berlin had an open sewer, it would be Germany's Romania.
Berlin is an eyesore, the pimple on Germany's ass. Berlin is the guy who comes to your party without an invitation, doesn't even bring alcohol and doesn't understand that he's not wanted when you knock a few teeth out of his face and throw him down the stairs. Berlin is the Detroit of Germany and should be sold to Poland for 200 złoty.
Commentary: I think this needs about as much introduction as OP's post. In that spirit: I've been to Berlin too once. This is how the rest of the Federal Republic thinks about Berlin. Well, as long as we're ranting about Berlin anyway.
Fucking ouch. But to be fair Bucharest is also a land fill of pretentious pricks who think they're the cream of society just because they're the capital city.
if Berlin had an open sewer, it would be Germany's Romania.
Fucking ouch.
But to be fair Bucharest is also a land fill of pretentious pricks who think they're the cream of society just because they're the capital city.
I see certain parallels between the way Romania and Germany feel about their capitals. Now I'm wondering whether other European countries are decentralized to the same degree as Germany. Because...
I see certain parallels between the way Romania and Germany feel about their capitals. Now I'm wondering whether other European countries are decentralized to the same degree as Germany. Because if you look at England, and even more so France, you'll notice that their economic, political, probably even cultural center of gravity is undoubtedly London respectively Paris. Sure, stuff also happens elsewhere in the country, but most of the important stuff happens there, most of the big companies are there.
Germany on the other hand.... not one German car manufacturer has their main base in Berlin, some of them are in towns that are otherwise completely unremarkable. Steel industry (or what's left of it and/or has replaced it) is in the Ruhr area. Logistics and Finance are centered around Frankfurt (air, rail, banks), Hamburg (port) and Munich (insurance). Berlin has respectable universities, but again, most of it is distributed across big towns and small cities all over. In fact, while in most countries I expect governmental redistribution flows from the economically highly productive capital to the disadvantaged but crucial countryside, in Germany it's the other way around. Beyond being the political center of Germany, Berlin is really not that important to the country overall, even considering its quite substantial population.
I do wonder what it's like in other European countries.
I think Germany is bizarre among European countries for how de-emphasized its capital is, but understandably so -- none of those other countries were literally divided into two separate countries...
Now I'm wondering whether other European countries are decentralized to the same degree as Germany.
I think Germany is bizarre among European countries for how de-emphasized its capital is, but understandably so -- none of those other countries were literally divided into two separate countries from the end of WW2 until the 90s. It's honestly kinda a miracle Berlin is as functional today as it is given how recently it was divided.
The way you talk about Berlin here, I’m wondering if it has any parallels to Australia’s Canberra? I’ve never been to Germany but I’d love a comment from someone familiar with both, is there a...
The way you talk about Berlin here, I’m wondering if it has any parallels to Australia’s Canberra? I’ve never been to Germany but I’d love a comment from someone familiar with both, is there a commonality?
Never been to australia, so I can't comment. I'm seeing some parallels though, in that Canberra was a compromise capital, and basically decentralized the country more. The historical reason for...
Never been to australia, so I can't comment. I'm seeing some parallels though, in that Canberra was a compromise capital, and basically decentralized the country more. The historical reason for that being much different, but the outcome is similar in that the capital just isn't that important outside politics.
Also, obligatory mention of the US too here I suppose. DC is a hamlet.
...many US state capitals are second or third-tier towns, too, often focused on government administration and education while larger cities are the main engines of economic activity... ...in fact,...
...many US state capitals are second or third-tier towns, too, often focused on government administration and education while larger cities are the main engines of economic activity...
...in fact, that's often promulgated as a virtuous arrangement to avoid conflicts of interest in governance...
I've heard that before and I'm not quite buying it. Lobbyists probably aren't scared off by having to travel 2-3h from their company's HQ to the capital. And if it's that politicians will treat...
...in fact, that's often promulgated as a virtuous arrangement to avoid conflicts of interest in governance...
I've heard that before and I'm not quite buying it. Lobbyists probably aren't scared off by having to travel 2-3h from their company's HQ to the capital. And if it's that politicians will treat favorably wherever their workplace happens to be, that bias probably still exists, it just benefits a different interest group. If Sacramento, CA gets preferential treatment over SF and LA, that makes about as much sense to me as Wyoming having equal power in the senate as CA. It's about shifting political capital (heh) around, but I don't see a good argument for where it ought to be except "everyone gets equal say".
I would probably rank Berlin as more important culturally to Germany than DC is to the US tbqh. We certainly are a stop on more international tours lol. But I'll admit I'm biased lol.
I would probably rank Berlin as more important culturally to Germany than DC is to the US tbqh. We certainly are a stop on more international tours lol. But I'll admit I'm biased lol.
Oh no doubt. A little bit more significant than DC relatively speaking. I was more comparing DC and how it came to be to Canberra. In both cases, putting the capital there was basically a decision...
Oh no doubt. A little bit more significant than DC relatively speaking. I was more comparing DC and how it came to be to Canberra. In both cases, putting the capital there was basically a decision of "let's put it in the boonies, so the second largest city can't get mad if we make the largest city capital". I think that's a mostly accurate description of both capitals, and probably a few more around the world. Berlin on the other hand is kind of the obvious choice, being the biggest city, and otherwise being somewhat significant. It's just that it's quite unremarkable by many metrics. I'm sure if you asked around what Germany's culturally most important city is, the answers will be split many different ways. Or similarly, if you checked which cities get what level of traffic from international tours, I wouldn't expect Berlin to lead that chart.
I can answer this having been to Canberra a bunch and having lived in Berlin: I think the two are very different. There are perhaps a couple of parallels apart from the nature of their capital...
I can answer this having been to Canberra a bunch and having lived in Berlin: I think the two are very different.
There are perhaps a couple of parallels apart from the nature of their capital status. Both have large expat communities, both have an abundance of brutalist architecture, and both host important government, arts, and cultural organisations, but that is where the similarities stop I think.
I get the sense that many people in Australia don't really love Canberra, but don't hate it. It's just...a bit odd.
People say it feels a little bit empty or soulless sometimes, which might come from it's 'artificial' construction. Personally, I think it's quite pretty and I quite like going there, but for a major city things do feel just ... slightly too far apart, which sure looks very nice and makes it feel much more in tune with the landscape, but also makes it feel a little sterile maybe?
Also it's cold and no beaches, so... there's that.
Berlin is a whole different kettle of fish. For a variety of reasons, Berlin seems to have generally poor reputation to the rest of the country, thus the meme above which some might take as only partly ironic.
German Berliners I have spoken to as to why others dislike it have said:
"It's too big". At ~4 million it is powers larger than every other city in the country.
"It's not pretty". From what I have seen this is generally true compared to the rest of the country. Berlin has been in a constant state of rebuilding up until relatively recently, first from it's destruction during WW2, and then following the collapse of the GDR.
"It's not 'Germany' to some". Berlin is far more multicultural and diverse than the rest of the country, with large immigrant communities from Türkiye and Eastern Europe. It is sometimes viewed as a bit transitory by both immigrants and Germans alike, though of course I have experienced more of this being from Australia. Living in Berlin you can get by speaking only English, and often as a non-native speaker German speakers will switch to English for conversation, although that may speak to my poor German.
"It's in the East". There is a lasting prejudice against the parts of the country that were under the rule of the GDR, and because of it's location Berlin also receives some hostility from this. I have been warned by multiple Germans that the region surrounding Berlin is still home to many Nazis that were allowed to exist more freely in the former GDR, though I don't know how true that is.
All of these reasons also speak to how different the city is from Canberra: It's size, it's age, and involvement in 19th and 20th century history, and it's grittiness. Additionally, things like a walkable layout and less planned design, multiple rivers and canals, and alternative art scene stand out as differences.
If I had to compare it to an Australian city I would maybe pick Melbourne? But of course it's pretty different from there also.
I visited one time in late February and it was shirt-with-no-sweater weather (which is what folks around here call 15C) and it was a freaking Nirvana compared to getting back to subfreezing...
I visited one time in late February and it was shirt-with-no-sweater weather (which is what folks around here call 15C) and it was a freaking Nirvana compared to getting back to subfreezing temperatures and mounds of snow. Also saw a lot of art and met some cool people.
As for the vacation days, my impression is that people are more motivated to actually work at work when they get a decent chunk of time totally off work. As compared to slacking off every day because you have no days off so why would you give it your all when you're actually on the job, which is all the time?
Met a European couple, I think they were from Germany, at a national park in Canada, who were on a four month work approved vacation in the middle of their career. Not only was that hard to...
Met a European couple, I think they were from Germany, at a national park in Canada, who were on a four month work approved vacation in the middle of their career. Not only was that hard to fathom, but they were also assured that they would get their old jobs back when they returned as the company policy was that they couldn't be fired or replaced, even after 4 months away. Astounding really. Not sure how the company works around such long absences but it would be hard not to be appreciative of a company that was so supportive of having a such a generous vacation policy.
Sounds wonderful. I was fired after taking 3 months off for medical leave once. (It’s technically illegal to do so, but any procedural delay in getting a doctor’s note or with the disability...
Sounds wonderful. I was fired after taking 3 months off for medical leave once.
(It’s technically illegal to do so, but any procedural delay in getting a doctor’s note or with the disability office means they can cite failure to notify or report to work as cause. So unless you’re willing to pay for legal counsel in addition to your medical bills don’t count on shit.)
Well, to be fair, it might very well be the case that it would have been more expensive for the company to train someone new than to simply hire temps for 4 months then get back the employees who...
Well, to be fair, it might very well be the case that it would have been more expensive for the company to train someone new than to simply hire temps for 4 months then get back the employees who presumably had a lot of experience.
I’ve not had the fortune of working somewhere with European vacation days yet, but have in the past had a 4-day work week. That extra day of buffer between the work week and weekend did wonders...
As for the vacation days, my impression is that people are more motivated to actually work at work when they get a decent chunk of time totally off work. As compared to slacking off every day because you have no days off so why would you give it your all when you're actually on the job, which is all the time?
I’ve not had the fortune of working somewhere with European vacation days yet, but have in the past had a 4-day work week. That extra day of buffer between the work week and weekend did wonders for allowing me to fully get “work brain” turned off and have a more restful weekend, which resulted in feeling more energized and motivated during the work week.
Winters in Berlin are definitely depressing in a mild-but-grey way. Definitely superior to the real winters back home in the Midwest, but the difference in my mood once spring arrives is night and...
Winters in Berlin are definitely depressing in a mild-but-grey way. Definitely superior to the real winters back home in the Midwest, but the difference in my mood once spring arrives is night and day.
As for days off, one of the reasons I moved to Europe was the improved work-life balance. Can't relate to the author there.
Hating on Berlin is a German pasttime, to be fair. It's a polarizing city. But most of the humor here does indeed fall rather flat for me, though. It's mostly either observations so common that...
Hating on Berlin is a German pasttime, to be fair. It's a polarizing city. But most of the humor here does indeed fall rather flat for me, though. It's mostly either observations so common that the comedy ends up being boring and derivative or not specific to Berlin. Or both. Whining about Berliner dialect is also bizarre and pointless -- a tiny fraction of people in this city actually speak it, you can handle them saying "jut" and "ick".
This entire thing speaks more about the author rather than Berlin. It's just a failure to deal with their cultural baggage and honestly a very naive and spoiled attitude that says that a foreign...
This entire thing speaks more about the author rather than Berlin. It's just a failure to deal with their cultural baggage and honestly a very naive and spoiled attitude that says that a foreign city shouldn't be foreign, just better in the specific things I'm looking for.
They'd probably be better off moving to a different city in their home country.
Imagine thinking too much leisure is the worst thing about a country.
This has to be satire, right? There's no way someone is actually this out of touch.
Definitely satire.
I didn't get the 30 vacation day thing because it is something a lot of Europeans are used to, but in some parts of Berlin, there is an oversized 80s vibe to how people dress.
Berlin is pretty big, the author seems to have chosen to live in the 'hipster' and 'edgy' parts and then complained about it as if it was all that Berlin was. There is a whole dull world underneath all that with chill people that don't take part in whatever the author is complaining about.
It's a weird article.
I mean I'm in Denmark and I have an American friend who genuinely does think we are unproductive etc. She would probably agree with this part - but she does have the most intense work ethic I've ever seen, so it's no surprise that she thinks everyone below her level is lazy. Like she thinks her wife is lazy for not picking up extra hours on the weekends for example, despite already working a full time job. (She is actually a lovely person lol, this is just one tiny aspect of her)
Sorry, couldn't help myself there. This truly sounds like someone who either has Stockholm syndrome or has been indoctrinated entirely by US companies (possibly both).
I fully believe she is an otherwise lovely person.
Yeah I agree kinda. But she was grew up in a remote area and was homeschooled, so with that level of education she really did always have to work really hard to make a living
I wonder if this issue is less about time-off, and instead maybe not well managed time-off? Like at my work here in the US, we're largely not allowed to take time off in May/June, other than holidays (Memorial Day, Juneteenth, and an employee's birthday if it's in those months). Because our big event of the year is in June and it's all hands on deck with planning, preparation, and execution. But afterwards, you better believe like half the office is gone for like a week or two, or sometimes more.
But yeah, I don't see how 30 days is too much. I have 27 days + lots of holidays. Plus we're off and paid between Christmas Eve and New Years Day, for free. I still think it's not enough. As long as it's well-managed, vacations should never be a problem.
The author surely is talking about the latter although being satirical about the former. Germans see their vacation time as a god given right, and good for them for standing up for it, but any kind of planning around that circumstance seems to get lost. A lot of organizations both large and small do become chaotic at times because so-and-so is on vacation for three weeks and that's their job, please wait until they return. Or someone else is covering for them but doesn't really understand how or what to do and is already working two or three other duties in the office so they don't really have the bandwidth anyway.
American culture around work and leisure time is definitely problematic but I see this comparison as a kind of somewhere in between would be ideal situation. Americans would do better to have more vacation days (and actually take them!) and the Germans might learn a little by planning around keeping operations for the customer going or at least thinking a little more outside the box to bend and skirt rules to keep things flowing at times.
This is not a German strong suit lol, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
I will say working for an American company with a good vacation policy/culture but under a German job contract is very close to the best of both worlds on that front.
I had 30 vacation days per year for years. Now it doesn't count because I'm essentially my own boss. I never, not even once, thought "Oh, what an awful time of leisure and rest! God, please, give me some work!".
Couldn't believe it when I read that, has to be satire of some sort, surely.
She'd freak out at my job, I get 42 holiday days a year with the ability to build up and use 20 flexi days a year and I can carry a maximum of 8 days over. So if I played my cards right, I could maximise my holiday time and get 70 days off a year!
The thing about the N-word is a bit of projection I think. To understand why it is not just bad but very racist to say the N-word, you have to be aquanted with US history on slavery. The writer pretty much assumes that people in Germany should all just know this, but never considers the culture difference. The work thing also feels like a projection of American culture ("Work means individuality, performance and innovation") instead of German work culture ("You get paid to do something specific correctly in a strict context and time-frame"). All in all, it just seems like they don't understand German culture and write it off as wrong.
Now, the graffiti and art stuff is true: Berlin have a "edgy-teen" reputation among Germans as well, this is widely known (as far as I know).
My experience confirms this. I grew up in the 90s in a post-communist neighbor of Germany and I remember that even when racism against the Roma was rampant in the 90s and neonazis repeatedly tried to organize pogroms, almost everyone apart from said literal neonazis was like "well I hate gypsies, but I've nothing against black people, they're cool".
Then with the boom of mainstream rap music suddenly our media was flooded with either literal ex gangsters or gangsta-wannabes saying the n word in every other sentence and those same people were like "wow, this is what black people are like? I guess I don't like blacks now!" Naturally they had very little idea about american history or even current reality and mostly based their opinions on largely shitty popculture imports.
It almost felt like we had to import this kind of racism first. But nobody thought of importing US history, of course, why would they. Fortunately since it was imported, it didn't catch on that much, and people who base their opinions on popculture don't tend to have too long attention spans.
Adding to that, the idea of a word being banned is just completely foreign to most of us. Some people literally view banning the n-word (and I mean banning it regardless of context, banning its usage as a direct slur is completely different) as so foreign as reading about the world of Harry Potter banning the word Voldemort. Nothing similar exists here.
The author also says this, which I think is funny:
Our minister for regional development is literally a white dude with dreadlocks who's a psytrance DJ (with a PhD, as is the custom here). I hope she doesn't come here next.
There was a recent case here in Germany's Hat (Denmark) where American students walked out of a lecture in Copenhagen University because the professor used the n-word. It caused a huge uproar, because they felt they were so justified that I believe they even got a bunch of signatures for a letter of complaint. But like you say, it's simply a cultural difference and we do not have the same context for the word that you do in the US. The professor wasn't even using it to speak for himself, he was quoting a historical text.
Right or wrong, I don't know. But it's certainly a hell of a cultural difference
What I find interesting and actually funny, in the literal sense, at times is how Germans view Americans as boorish for our tendency to make jokes about WW2/Nazis/Hitler. Here that is obviously not socially acceptable outside of close friend groups but they assume we should just know better and have a little more tact than to do it, and I admit they do have a point, but on the flip side they go around saying the N-word with no consideration to the weight it carries for people from the US despite how glaringly obvious from American media (outside of hip-hop/rap culture) how negative that word is.
It's the classic tale of two cultures misunderstanding each other and a golden opportunity for both of us to learn a little more tact and grace. Hearing my European friends casually drop N-bombs would make me physically jump at first but now I find it amusing in a they-don't-know-better type of way.
I think it deserves mentioning that all that baggage doesn't really make it out of the US, beyond social media outrage if someone did say it. Like, if I wasn't so online and only slightly more naive, all I would know is that it's used in a positive way in rap culture. And sure, there's more-or-less equivalent words in German - we have "Neger" which is so old fashioned it's more a curiosity if someone actually still uses it. "Negro" even more so, makes you sound like you're born in 1880, with monocle, pipe and top hat. The btter point of comparison though are slurs that carry similar amount of punch that upstanding Germans avoid like the plague, mostly for groups which have suffered discrimination more consistently and at greater scale - Turks, Roma, Jews.
What I find the most interesting aspect of this all though is that there seems to be a better understanding of use-mention-distinction in Germany. I feel like I could quote bad words here if I needed to. There's no "K-Wort" for referring to a slur about Turkish people. You either use the word, in which case you're probably an asshole. Or you mention the word, in which case you're not using it, and that's generally an understood distinction; perhaps you do it because it's important to convey exactly what is said. Or if you want to keep it really proper, you just report that "X called Y by a racist slur" and that might also be all the information you need. There's no dancing around it, you either mention the word, or you don't. In that way, it isn't that "we don't know any better", it's just that some things that count as dropping an n-bomb in the US are here simply considered quoting someone who did.
On that I'd just like to add that there's quite a whole host of jokes you can make here that are entirely acceptable. I feel like the line of what is too much is a bit different between the US and Germany. For example, mockery of a certain failed Austrian artist and his drug habits is fully accepted. I imagine there's less room for tongue-in-cheek glorification, as Germans don't do tongue-in-cheek, ever. (/s) There's also certain topics around the victims of the regime that are, after 80 years, still a bit of a case of "too soon". And while I'm sure Americans would agree that it's no good to make light of victims, who is or isn't a victim is a matter of historical debate. I'm sure jokes to the effect of "all nazi soldiers were nazis" go over real well with grandkids of drafted soldiers, and there certainly is some heightened sensitivity around who's to blame for the horrors of that time. I do wonder what jokes you think are considered on different sides of the red line in the US vs in Germany.
For what it's worth, this is a thing for most swesr words and slurs other than the n-word across languages, including in English. Back when I studied linguistics formally I went to a workshop on social meaning that had a big focus on profanity and slurs, and it was pretty universally agreed upon that the way the use-mention distinction pretty much fails to function for the n-word in English is interesting and rather unique, to the extent that there have been various attempts at coming up with formal linguistic theories about how it functioned and why it was different from other slurs.
Anyway I don't feel like I've encountered many Germans using the n-word at all, and I've been living in/around Berlin for 5 years. It hasn't really come up much. I will confess I feel a bit uncomfortable when I hear German youths use "Digga" due to the similar sound, but that's my own hangup.
I recall reading about "digga" being basically a sterilized appropriation of the n-word, originating in German hip hop. Not sure if it was academically sound to a linguist's standards though.
That's the explanation I've heard as well, but I haven't bothered digging into seeing if it's true or if it's a false etymology.
That's a great point. I also think that ideally more people would learn about these things.
I don't really think this is true, because I think there's a general understanding that the word is racist (any dictionary will include a label saying "derogatory/pejorative") among most English speakers. Even if you think "the reasoning is US specific" the fact that other people think it's racist/offensive essentially makes it true, because they will know that a very large number of English speakers consider the term racist, so choosing to use it kind of says something about you.
It's like how Germans hanging up Confederate flags can say wink, wink "I am not acquainted with the US history on slavery" but we all know that they're sending a very specific message.
At the end of this article is a little note that says: "You are reading a pseudonymous post from a friendly neighborhood writer as part of our limited-run Hate Read pop-up newsletter! These are not real names! Stop trying to Google them lol!"
I was curious, and read the rest of the "Hate Read" articles. Ironically, they're all so bad I feel the need to write about them here. I don't quite know what brief the writers got for these articles, but the whole idea of "just whine about shit that doesn't matter for a few hundred words" makes me sad. The intro to the series ends with "But what if, in the end, sowing discord, snark and a healthy spray of cattiness is what really brings us all together?" as if the idea of complaining about stuff is a new concept and not 90% of internet traffic that isn't pornography. It's not really the kind of conversation that we need more of, is it? But who knows, maybe my optimism is more common than I think it is, and I just so happen to miss a large chunk of positive online discussion.
Maybe they're playing some sort of 5d chess and hoping to also bring people who hate the articles together...
In the interest of cultural exchange, I'll leave this well-known german copy-pasta here. In the interest of providing an authentic german copy-pasta experience, I'll leave the machine translation completely intact:
Oh Berlin. What is Berlin? Berlin is the city that Germans should be ashamed of on the international stage. If you compare Berlin with other European capitals such as London, Paris, Madrid and Amsterdam, it makes any decent person's face turn red with shame. Even small countries such as Austria, Belgium or Switzerland have internationally presentable cities with a high quality of life in Vienna, Brussels and Zurich. Germany is punished with Berlin, the capital of failure. Berlin is home to by far the most assholes in the entire country. Deutsche Bahn, the Bundestag, Air Berlin and the Axel Springer publishing house are just a few examples of the incompetent scum that are housed here.
Glorious times are long gone, this city is on its knees. The Berliner is a lazy bastard through and through. Character traits that would be considered pure laziness, unfriendliness, incompetence, dissocial personality disorder and stupidity in any civilized culture are declared by Berliners to be Berlin characteristics without further ado. Another central characteristic is the all-dominant inferiority complex. This is why Berliners project massive feelings of hatred onto anyone who is better than them in any way. The southern Germans in particular, who are vastly superior to him in all respects, are a thorn in his side. He envies their success and Munich is at the top of his hate list. This city is everything and has everything the Berliner would like to be and have. The fact that Munich finances the Berliner's lottery life is of no interest to the Berliner, he even secretly believes he deserves it. Instead of freeing himself from his lethargy caused by envy and resentment and turning his city around, he indulges in asocial parasitism and still thinks highly of his supposed cosmopolitan city.
Culturally, Berlin is rather weak, with great works dating back a long time. Even pronouncing the letter "g" as a "j" is considered a great cultural achievement here. Advanced learners can even add a "wa?" to the end of every sentence. The level of performance in the kitchen is at a manageable level. A sausage made from ground seperator meat with ketchup and curry spice is sold here as a currywurst and a stroke of culinary genius. Any sensible person would hardly consider a sausage with ketchup to be the holy grail of culinary art and probably not even a recipe. The rest of the republic generously allows Berliners to believe this so that their inferiority complexes don't get the better of them
Economically, Berlin is a disaster, even the late GDR was more solid. Apart from that, Berlin's economy is based on alternative blogs, something to do with media and gender studies, if the universities are to be believed.Despite the economic bankruptcy, Berliners still afford prestige projects such as the City Palace and an airport that is supposed to be an art project due to its lack of functionality.This city is also home to all the headquarters of the people's parties, which for marketing reasons do without the "traitor" in their names.For a long time, the mayor of this city was the jolly Wowibär, whose prestige and prosecco politics dragged everything that was still halfway presentable into the abyss.
In short: Berlin is Germany's tile table.It is to Germany what Greece is to the European Union and if Berlin had an open sewer, it would be Germany's Romania.
Berlin is an eyesore, the pimple on Germany's ass. Berlin is the guy who comes to your party without an invitation, doesn't even bring alcohol and doesn't understand that he's not wanted when you knock a few teeth out of his face and throw him down the stairs. Berlin is the Detroit of Germany and should be sold to Poland for 200 złoty.
Commentary: I think this needs about as much introduction as OP's post. In that spirit: I've been to Berlin too once. This is how the rest of the Federal Republic thinks about Berlin. Well, as long as we're ranting about Berlin anyway.
Had me until the currywurst ngl.
Fucking ouch.
But to be fair Bucharest is also a land fill of pretentious pricks who think they're the cream of society just because they're the capital city.
I see certain parallels between the way Romania and Germany feel about their capitals. Now I'm wondering whether other European countries are decentralized to the same degree as Germany. Because if you look at England, and even more so France, you'll notice that their economic, political, probably even cultural center of gravity is undoubtedly London respectively Paris. Sure, stuff also happens elsewhere in the country, but most of the important stuff happens there, most of the big companies are there.
Germany on the other hand.... not one German car manufacturer has their main base in Berlin, some of them are in towns that are otherwise completely unremarkable. Steel industry (or what's left of it and/or has replaced it) is in the Ruhr area. Logistics and Finance are centered around Frankfurt (air, rail, banks), Hamburg (port) and Munich (insurance). Berlin has respectable universities, but again, most of it is distributed across big towns and small cities all over. In fact, while in most countries I expect governmental redistribution flows from the economically highly productive capital to the disadvantaged but crucial countryside, in Germany it's the other way around. Beyond being the political center of Germany, Berlin is really not that important to the country overall, even considering its quite substantial population.
I do wonder what it's like in other European countries.
I think Germany is bizarre among European countries for how de-emphasized its capital is, but understandably so -- none of those other countries were literally divided into two separate countries from the end of WW2 until the 90s. It's honestly kinda a miracle Berlin is as functional today as it is given how recently it was divided.
The way you talk about Berlin here, I’m wondering if it has any parallels to Australia’s Canberra? I’ve never been to Germany but I’d love a comment from someone familiar with both, is there a commonality?
Never been to australia, so I can't comment. I'm seeing some parallels though, in that Canberra was a compromise capital, and basically decentralized the country more. The historical reason for that being much different, but the outcome is similar in that the capital just isn't that important outside politics.
Also, obligatory mention of the US too here I suppose. DC is a hamlet.
...many US state capitals are second or third-tier towns, too, often focused on government administration and education while larger cities are the main engines of economic activity...
...in fact, that's often promulgated as a virtuous arrangement to avoid conflicts of interest in governance...
I've heard that before and I'm not quite buying it. Lobbyists probably aren't scared off by having to travel 2-3h from their company's HQ to the capital. And if it's that politicians will treat favorably wherever their workplace happens to be, that bias probably still exists, it just benefits a different interest group. If Sacramento, CA gets preferential treatment over SF and LA, that makes about as much sense to me as Wyoming having equal power in the senate as CA. It's about shifting political capital (heh) around, but I don't see a good argument for where it ought to be except "everyone gets equal say".
I would probably rank Berlin as more important culturally to Germany than DC is to the US tbqh. We certainly are a stop on more international tours lol. But I'll admit I'm biased lol.
Oh no doubt. A little bit more significant than DC relatively speaking. I was more comparing DC and how it came to be to Canberra. In both cases, putting the capital there was basically a decision of "let's put it in the boonies, so the second largest city can't get mad if we make the largest city capital". I think that's a mostly accurate description of both capitals, and probably a few more around the world. Berlin on the other hand is kind of the obvious choice, being the biggest city, and otherwise being somewhat significant. It's just that it's quite unremarkable by many metrics. I'm sure if you asked around what Germany's culturally most important city is, the answers will be split many different ways. Or similarly, if you checked which cities get what level of traffic from international tours, I wouldn't expect Berlin to lead that chart.
I can answer this having been to Canberra a bunch and having lived in Berlin: I think the two are very different.
There are perhaps a couple of parallels apart from the nature of their capital status. Both have large expat communities, both have an abundance of brutalist architecture, and both host important government, arts, and cultural organisations, but that is where the similarities stop I think.
I get the sense that many people in Australia don't really love Canberra, but don't hate it. It's just...a bit odd.
People say it feels a little bit empty or soulless sometimes, which might come from it's 'artificial' construction. Personally, I think it's quite pretty and I quite like going there, but for a major city things do feel just ... slightly too far apart, which sure looks very nice and makes it feel much more in tune with the landscape, but also makes it feel a little sterile maybe?
Also it's cold and no beaches, so... there's that.
Berlin is a whole different kettle of fish. For a variety of reasons, Berlin seems to have generally poor reputation to the rest of the country, thus the meme above which some might take as only partly ironic.
German Berliners I have spoken to as to why others dislike it have said:
All of these reasons also speak to how different the city is from Canberra: It's size, it's age, and involvement in 19th and 20th century history, and it's grittiness. Additionally, things like a walkable layout and less planned design, multiple rivers and canals, and alternative art scene stand out as differences.
If I had to compare it to an Australian city I would maybe pick Melbourne? But of course it's pretty different from there also.
Only been to Berlin once, in the summer, and found it pleasant. But I thought this was a funny rant about what it’s like there.
I visited one time in late February and it was shirt-with-no-sweater weather (which is what folks around here call 15C) and it was a freaking Nirvana compared to getting back to subfreezing temperatures and mounds of snow. Also saw a lot of art and met some cool people.
As for the vacation days, my impression is that people are more motivated to actually work at work when they get a decent chunk of time totally off work. As compared to slacking off every day because you have no days off so why would you give it your all when you're actually on the job, which is all the time?
Met a European couple, I think they were from Germany, at a national park in Canada, who were on a four month work approved vacation in the middle of their career. Not only was that hard to fathom, but they were also assured that they would get their old jobs back when they returned as the company policy was that they couldn't be fired or replaced, even after 4 months away. Astounding really. Not sure how the company works around such long absences but it would be hard not to be appreciative of a company that was so supportive of having a such a generous vacation policy.
Sounds wonderful. I was fired after taking 3 months off for medical leave once.
(It’s technically illegal to do so, but any procedural delay in getting a doctor’s note or with the disability office means they can cite failure to notify or report to work as cause. So unless you’re willing to pay for legal counsel in addition to your medical bills don’t count on shit.)
Well, to be fair, it might very well be the case that it would have been more expensive for the company to train someone new than to simply hire temps for 4 months then get back the employees who presumably had a lot of experience.
I’ve not had the fortune of working somewhere with European vacation days yet, but have in the past had a 4-day work week. That extra day of buffer between the work week and weekend did wonders for allowing me to fully get “work brain” turned off and have a more restful weekend, which resulted in feeling more energized and motivated during the work week.
Winters in Berlin are definitely depressing in a mild-but-grey way. Definitely superior to the real winters back home in the Midwest, but the difference in my mood once spring arrives is night and day.
As for days off, one of the reasons I moved to Europe was the improved work-life balance. Can't relate to the author there.
Is this supposed to be "comedy"?
This has so much entitled twat energy that it is painful.
Hating on Berlin is a German pasttime, to be fair. It's a polarizing city. But most of the humor here does indeed fall rather flat for me, though. It's mostly either observations so common that the comedy ends up being boring and derivative or not specific to Berlin. Or both. Whining about Berliner dialect is also bizarre and pointless -- a tiny fraction of people in this city actually speak it, you can handle them saying "jut" and "ick".
This entire thing speaks more about the author rather than Berlin. It's just a failure to deal with their cultural baggage and honestly a very naive and spoiled attitude that says that a foreign city shouldn't be foreign, just better in the specific things I'm looking for.
They'd probably be better off moving to a different city in their home country.