I agree with the fatigue take. Disney is churning these things out like hot cakes. Even if the shows are good, things seem repetitive. Star Trek is going through the same thing too.
I agree with the fatigue take. Disney is churning these things out like hot cakes. Even if the shows are good, things seem repetitive. Star Trek is going through the same thing too.
Has the quality actually improved at all with Star Trek? I got through the first season of Mass Effect: Picard and absolutely reviled what they'd done to Starfleet and the universe at large. Gone...
Star Trek is going through the same thing too.
Has the quality actually improved at all with Star Trek?
I got through the first season of Mass Effect: Picard and absolutely reviled what they'd done to Starfleet and the universe at large. Gone was the optimistic, philisophical future to think and aim for... in was the dark and gritty universe that just didn't fit.
I skipped even paying attention to any of the other Star Trek's because of Picard S1's awful premise.
It's the best. Since you seem like you watched everything, maybe you'd help: I couldn't stomach the strange red angel weirdness of Discovery, and I don't feel too inclined to watch Picard 1, 2. Is...
Star Trek: Lower Decks
It's the best.
Since you seem like you watched everything, maybe you'd help: I couldn't stomach the strange red angel weirdness of Discovery, and I don't feel too inclined to watch Picard 1, 2.
Is it okay to watch just Picard 3, or will I be super confused? And, does Strange New Worlds lean on Discovery/Picard?
It's fine to skip Picard completely IMO. I watched all of it and it 100% ran on nostalgia, the actual plots were meh at best. Season 3 is the least bad and I think you can watch it standalone if...
It's fine to skip Picard completely IMO. I watched all of it and it 100% ran on nostalgia, the actual plots were meh at best. Season 3 is the least bad and I think you can watch it standalone if you want the nostalgia trip of the TNG crew getting back together.
Strange New Worlds has a crossover with Lower Decks, which is the greatest thing ever. Otherwise it's pretty much a standalone thing. Monster/problem of the week, no infighting between the crew, competent crew members who know their stuff. Excellent stuff.
Huh. Re: Picard I had a different reaction. S1 I loved (once I got through the opening needless chases and “action”) probably for the themes. Season 2 I found kind of meh, but I enjoyed seeing Q...
Huh. Re: Picard I had a different reaction. S1 I loved (once I got through the opening needless chases and “action”) probably for the themes. Season 2 I found kind of meh, but I enjoyed seeing Q again- but I found the writing of S3 just egregiously bad. Infuriatingly so. Fwiw- there’s my take.
I love the S1 episode Nepenthe - yeah it was fan service but it was beautiful fan service. Picard definitely had quite a few meh episodes. But I'm glad I watched it. FWIW, I gave up on Lower Decks...
I love the S1 episode Nepenthe - yeah it was fan service but it was beautiful fan service.
Picard definitely had quite a few meh episodes. But I'm glad I watched it.
FWIW, I gave up on Lower Decks a few episodes in and Strange New Worlds is very good.
Yeah, I am loving SNW. I wrote a long plea to keep it like S1/TOS more going forward a few week back (with more Picard S3 vitriol) I'm considering trying out Lower Decks, but generally I'm not an...
Yeah, I am loving SNW. I wrote a long plea to keep it like S1/TOS more going forward a few week back (with more Picard S3 vitriol) I'm considering trying out Lower Decks, but generally I'm not an animation fan - excepting Avatar and Korra.
The VA for Mariner is annoyingly shouty, but otherwise it's a solid comedy take on ST. Although there are some really hard hitting episodes in there that kinda surprise you. A bit like they did...
The VA for Mariner is annoyingly shouty, but otherwise it's a solid comedy take on ST.
Although there are some really hard hitting episodes in there that kinda surprise you. A bit like they did with Orville.
As long as you have passing knowledge of Lower Decks, you can enjoy the crossover episode at the end of season 2. But IMO LD is worth it, the comedy is a bit heavy-handed at times, but it does...
As long as you have passing knowledge of Lower Decks, you can enjoy the crossover episode at the end of season 2.
But IMO LD is worth it, the comedy is a bit heavy-handed at times, but it does have heart and actual plot.
You saying this made me realize I've made a typo. I couldn't stomach it either. I'm having trouble putting it into words, but it was way off. Already familiar with that, so no biggie. Excited for...
I tapped out at the Red Angel stuff
You saying this made me realize I've made a typo. I couldn't stomach it either. I'm having trouble putting it into words, but it was way off.
What makes Pike knowing his fate gives a bit of a philosophical bent to SNW. He's like Sisyphus in that he knows the boulder is going to roll down the hill anyway but he's happy to return and do...
What makes Pike knowing his fate gives a bit of a philosophical bent to SNW. He's like Sisyphus in that he knows the boulder is going to roll down the hill anyway but he's happy to return and do the job all over again. Pike knows he's screwed but he's making the most of life, as if that knowledge is a gift.
Michael Burnham needs to be quieter and sadder, and have access to a time machine. Whenever Michael Burnham's not on-screen, everyone should be asking, "Where's Michael Burnham?"
Michael Burnham needs to be quieter and sadder, and have access to a time machine. Whenever Michael Burnham's not on-screen, everyone should be asking, "Where's Michael Burnham?"
I'd add Star Trek: Prodigy here with it's IMDB rating of 7.4 It starts as a kids show, but grows up pretty fast to be actually good. It also has cameos from live action ST cast members along the...
I'd add Star Trek: Prodigy here with it's IMDB rating of 7.4
It starts as a kids show, but grows up pretty fast to be actually good. It also has cameos from live action ST cast members along the way. Worth the watch if you need more ST in your life.
I enjoyed TNG, I loved DS9. I adore the moral grey area that almost everything has to that. Picard played by the rules too much, or... to quote Q: "Picard never hit me!" Someone else reccomended...
And I like TNG... an unhealthy amount.
I enjoyed TNG, I loved DS9. I adore the moral grey area that almost everything has to that. Picard played by the rules too much, or... to quote Q: "Picard never hit me!"
Someone else reccomended S3 of Picard. I'll give that SNW a view.
I don't think using the IMDB ratings is the best metric given that they're user reviews and there was a huge 'anti-woke' outcry from 'fans'. Despite our beliefs and the message of the show, some...
I don't think using the IMDB ratings is the best metric given that they're user reviews and there was a huge 'anti-woke' outcry from 'fans'. Despite our beliefs and the message of the show, some Trekkers (a label I would self identify with), can be just awful and toxic. But look at the IMDB score breakdowns, they're are all over the place and the fact that 10% give the show a 1 and 20% give it a 10% is absolutely absurd and reeks of review bombing and the backlash to review bombing. To me, the RT critic ratings are probably a bit more fair (though I heavily disagree that S2 of PIC was "better" than S2 of DIS) and honestly paint DIS as a decent but unremarkable show.
Personally, I feel DIS is fine though I do have issues with it. PIC seasons 1 and 2 I felt were some of the worst seasons of Star Trek I've ever seen though to my great shame, I never finished VOY or ENT. Even then I still watched and season 3 of PIC felt like a nice reward for enduring seasons 1 and 2
I think the reviews of DIS also suffered quite a lot from the questionable choices of the first season, like what it tried to do with Klingons, which to many came off as needless change for the...
I think the reviews of DIS also suffered quite a lot from the questionable choices of the first season, like what it tried to do with Klingons, which to many came off as needless change for the sake of change or an attempt by the showrunners to leave an oversized footprint in the franchise. Each "generation" of Trek has taken creative liberties but that felt different somehow.
My personal quibble with the series is its obsession with universe-scale threats that wind up conveniently being caused and/or solved by a single person. I think it would've been more interesting had it stuck almost exclusively to lower stakes, especially post-timeskip where the setting is primed well for that kind of story.
I'm 100% with you. Season after season of extinction level events were really annoying and fatiguing, particularly the way 'the burn' was solved, which was just... so dumb. Perhaps the feeling was...
My personal quibble with the series is its obsession with universe-scale threats
I'm 100% with you. Season after season of extinction level events were really annoying and fatiguing, particularly the way 'the burn' was solved, which was just... so dumb. Perhaps the feeling was that you need the potential for a large scale catastrophe in order propel interest in serialized Star Trek/sci-fi but I think plenty of series have demonstrated that it's not needed. I think you can create tension without the threat of catastrophic consequences. I also agree that I wish they did more with the 31st century stuff because I've always wondered about post TNG/DS9/VOY era Star Trek and I think it had so much potential. Season 4 did a better job with it but it still relied on "if we don't figure this out, our galaxy will perish" kind of tropes.
I guess my feeling is that I understand some criticisms and dislike of DIS, but I feel the level of hatred and vitriol pointed at the show is just ridiculous. Like or not, we don't get LD or SNW without DIS. Do I feel DIS is the best Star Trek ever? Absolutely not, it's pretty middling but as bad as some episodes have been, I haven't ever questioned continuing DIS the way I did PIC after season 2 lol
Maybe check out Picard Season 3. After a disappointing S01 and an awful S02 they changed the showrunner, and the new guy (Terry Matalas) wrote a great finale for Picard as a character, that...
Maybe check out Picard Season 3. After a disappointing S01 and an awful S02 they changed the showrunner, and the new guy (Terry Matalas) wrote a great finale for Picard as a character, that largely ignored the first two seasons and felt like a successful fusion between the Star Trek of old and a more modern presentation. They cared about the characters and the 'lore' in S03 again, and (after being very disappointed by ST Discovery and the earlier Picard seasons) I liked this one a lot.
Picard Season 3 is a good apology for Nemesis and Season 1 existing. Strange New Worlds is probably the best of the new batch, and is the most like a classic Star Trek show.
Picard Season 3 is a good apology for Nemesis and Season 1 existing.
Strange New Worlds is probably the best of the new batch, and is the most like a classic Star Trek show.
I'll give it a read online and then have a crack at it. I was so sorely disappointed by a lot of the new Trek stuff. I even went and bought Voyager and DS9 books to fill the void! They're so good...
I'll give it a read online and then have a crack at it.
I was so sorely disappointed by a lot of the new Trek stuff. I even went and bought Voyager and DS9 books to fill the void! They're so good compared to the absolute trite waffle we seem to get for Star Trek these days.
Lower Decks is written by someone who gets trek. Easily the best thing to happen to trek in a long long time (i gave up after voyager, which i hesitate to rewatch). Picard is written by someone...
Lower Decks is written by someone who gets trek. Easily the best thing to happen to trek in a long long time (i gave up after voyager, which i hesitate to rewatch).
Picard is written by someone who doesn't even know the plot or the setting. The romulan planet blew up so romulans are refuge's now?
This is like saying New York blew up so all Americans are refugees in Europe now. It's just so lazy when it doesn't need to be.
Now does this matter to the average viewer who probably isn't that familiar with trek or didn't even notice that yeah, this makes no damn sense. Not really, but that level of "effort" was put into the entire show. It's someone else's sci fi action script with the skin of star trek draped over it.
I think it's supposed to be more like the impact of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem for the Jewish people. "Refugee" would be less appropriate than to say they are a "diaspora" culture...
Picard is written by someone who doesn't even know the plot or the setting. The romulan planet blew up so romulans are refuge's now?
This is like saying New York blew up so all Americans are refugees in Europe now. It's just so lazy when it doesn't need to be.
I think it's supposed to be more like the impact of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem for the Jewish people. "Refugee" would be less appropriate than to say they are a "diaspora" culture now, without a homeland.
That is still lazy writing though, if you're gonna do hamfisted metaphors to real history I'd want you to get into the very gritty detail and nuance of it. Not just vaguely wave in its direction and rely on the audience's emotional associations to do all the work of giving it heft.
But then why are they "refugee's" in federation space? There's literally dozens if not hundreds of planets in the romulan empire they could be refugee's on, and yet somehow it's implied they're...
But then why are they "refugee's" in federation space? There's literally dozens if not hundreds of planets in the romulan empire they could be refugee's on, and yet somehow it's implied they're mostly stuck in federation space?
Adjacent to fatigue, there is also being overwhelmed, which felt like more relevant to Trek. If you have time for 2 things, and 3 things of a franchise are going on in parallel, it may be you need...
Adjacent to fatigue, there is also being overwhelmed, which felt like more relevant to Trek.
If you have time for 2 things, and 3 things of a franchise are going on in parallel, it may be you need all 3 to experience it fully. Some will make time or whatever, but some will just... give up on the franchise.
I think this ties to the spoiler culture in that some audiences require immaculate conditions to experience media (all 3 things, without spoilers, 4K, the moment they release, etc.) or else they would rather not.
Star Trek is also overwhelming to new viewers. I'm someone who watched the odd episode of it in the 90s/2000s but never really got into it. I ended up watching all of TOS a few years back but...
Star Trek is also overwhelming to new viewers. I'm someone who watched the odd episode of it in the 90s/2000s but never really got into it. I ended up watching all of TOS a few years back but never moved on from that because there's so much, apart from seeing a couple episodes of Discovery and Picard.
Meh for me it's a huge quality drop. I'll watch whatever is good, but they're not putting out much that's good. Mando s1 came out and nailed the SW and bounty hunter vibe. Great stuff. Then we got...
Meh for me it's a huge quality drop. I'll watch whatever is good, but they're not putting out much that's good. Mando s1 came out and nailed the SW and bounty hunter vibe. Great stuff.
Then we got boba fett.
I read the various EU boba fett books as a kid. I was really bummed when clone wars basically destroyed all of them, but I figured they could still work the tales of the bounty hunter (or uh...whatever it was, 3 part series) into something and give fett his purpose back.
What we got, was a fucking mess. It's pretty clear that no one on that show knew what to do with Fett. I have no idea if it's the actor or the writers or what, but every other character on that show has more clear purpose and character. Having Fett save the day on a rancor rather than using the Slave 1 is just...missing the point so entirely as to be amazing.
And then the absurdity of Mando having the best fett episode. Not just literally, but also figuratively. Everything mando did in that opening scene is what I'd expect from EU book fett.
So it's with this kick to my childhood i've glanced at Obiwan, andor, and whatever else at. Mando S3 is still on my list, and i've been told andor episode 1 sucks but the rest is worth it (i loved rogue one), and obi wan just reeked of "well it's got name recognition so just phone in the script).
It's so so strange when they've got SO many good plots to crib from. We're FINALLY getting Thrawn and I couldn't care less because dear god they've done nothing with him, and i'm not sure they will. Hell maybe he'll go ride a rancor to.
It all feels mass produced at the end of the day, and IF you get someone who really cares about the material involved it can be wonderful, but it's so so rare, which is so odd given they've got obvious indicators that it matters.
For what it's worth, Andor really is truly worth it. So much so that when something Disney But Not Star Wars comes out, it's immediately compared to Andor (like "Secret Invasion Could Be Marvel's...
The problem for me as a huge Star Trek fan is... why risk investing time in the new stuff when the old stuff is so rewatchable? And there is so much there - TOS, TNG, DS9... all so good. With Star...
The problem for me as a huge Star Trek fan is... why risk investing time in the new stuff when the old stuff is so rewatchable? And there is so much there - TOS, TNG, DS9... all so good.
With Star Wars I assume it's a pretty similar situation.
I don't watch the Star Trek shows, but from what I've heard from fans I know, new Star Trek has been improving and a lot of people really seem to enjoy SNW. I used to be a Star Wars fan and...
I don't watch the Star Trek shows, but from what I've heard from fans I know, new Star Trek has been improving and a lot of people really seem to enjoy SNW.
I used to be a Star Wars fan and honestly Disney Star Wars has been so bad I just don't care anymore and have lost interest. I'm still up for playing Star Wars games if they look interesting but I'm done with the TV/movie stuff.
I disagree with fatigue. I think the creativity and the nostalgia farming is the issue. These shows need creative freedom and risk-taking, not anchoring off existing characters.
I disagree with fatigue. I think the creativity and the nostalgia farming is the issue. These shows need creative freedom and risk-taking, not anchoring off existing characters.
Just finished the latest episode. I love the Ahsoka character. She's probably the most interesting character in the Star Wars universe. Started off as an obnoxious apprentice, but ended up being...
Just finished the latest episode. I love the Ahsoka character. She's probably the most interesting character in the Star Wars universe. Started off as an obnoxious apprentice, but ended up being instrumental in Anakin's fall. Dave Filoni was able to retcon her into the Skywalker saga and make the story Lucas tried to tell more coherent.
Still, somehow they managed to make the show dedicated to her...super boring.
I loved all the characters and the rebels show, but the only one in the live action that feels right is chopper. I haven't like the live action asoka in any of the shows she's been in, just feels...
I loved all the characters and the rebels show, but the only one in the live action that feels right is chopper. I haven't like the live action asoka in any of the shows she's been in, just feels miscast or misplayed, way too flat. Sabine actress feels like she's remembering her lines during her perfomance and has some weirds pauses and inflections. Herra actress has one verbal range only of flat monotone. If you compare say mon Mothra to herra in the last episode you can see the huge difference in stage presence between the two actors.
Honestly the big win for the show for me has been the VFX artists, the settings and creatures and vehicles look amazing. The performances feel flat and emotionless and don't grab me in like the animated versions of the characters did.
It's still an ok feeling show so far for me though, I don't hate it.
Look i've seen sad traffic cones.... But yeah this really nails it. I never go through rebels but even to me with the little i've seen something feels off/phoned in. I just get the feeling that...
Look i've seen sad traffic cones....
But yeah this really nails it. I never go through rebels but even to me with the little i've seen something feels off/phoned in. I just get the feeling that someone has already decided that on the chart they're at "peak" engagement from quality and now it's time to cash in on name alone and cut every corner.
Bit of a shame. I'm not a Star Wars fan and while I've seen the movies, the TV shows haven't done it for me. Only made a few episodes into the Mandalorian, finished Andor but wasn't all that...
Bit of a shame. I'm not a Star Wars fan and while I've seen the movies, the TV shows haven't done it for me. Only made a few episodes into the Mandalorian, finished Andor but wasn't all that impressed, and I haven't touched anything else since Disney took over.
I always heard good things about the animated shows, particularly Rebels and even the Thrawn book trilogy so I figure I'd give Ahsoka a shot and I've enjoyed it. Maybe it's because I'm not all in on Star Wars nor do I have Disney+ but to a complete casual like me, this feels more like the original Star Wars trilogy aka fantasy in space. Hope more people give it a shot.
Interestingly I've felt the opposite. I've loved pretty much all of the shows they've come out with, while being kind of meh about the movies, especially the sequels from mid 2010s. The world...
Interestingly I've felt the opposite. I've loved pretty much all of the shows they've come out with, while being kind of meh about the movies, especially the sequels from mid 2010s. The world building and dialogue in Mandalorian and Andor especially is great, and I like that they expose you to additional lore in the Star Wars universe that isn't just the Skywalker saga. They really have a lot of freedom to expand while bringing in elements that drew people to Star Wars in the first place.
Oh for clarification, I didn't love the movies, I just simply watched them and felt they were fine. I was actually most excited about Andor because it was Star Wars without the Skywalkers and was...
Oh for clarification, I didn't love the movies, I just simply watched them and felt they were fine. I was actually most excited about Andor because it was Star Wars without the Skywalkers and was sold to me as political/espionage suspense thriller but it never hit for me.
I gave the first episode a shot. I saw that it starts off directly with a MacGuffin, at which point I tuned out. I just can't take it anymore. Compare Ashoka's opening scene with Andor; it's a...
I gave the first episode a shot. I saw that it starts off directly with a MacGuffin, at which point I tuned out. I just can't take it anymore.
Compare Ashoka's opening scene with Andor; it's a night and day difference.
The pilot of Ahsoka is written and directed by Dave Filoni, who was the showrunner of the Clone Wars animation and is pretty much the last one who was directly consulted by George Lucas on the...
The pilot of Ahsoka is written and directed by Dave Filoni, who was the showrunner of the Clone Wars animation and is pretty much the last one who was directly consulted by George Lucas on the world of Star Wars. He also created the character of Ahsoka.
The first two episodes have a TON of nods to the animation series (both CW and Rebels) with direct shot-for-shot parallels with how things ended between Ahsoka and another character.
But if a MacGuffin map makes you immediately stop watching, I can't convince you otherwise.
I haven't watched any of the Star Wars animation, so unfortunately that doesn't mean much to me. More power to whomever enjoys this kind of narrative. I'll just hold out for Andor's season 2.
I haven't watched any of the Star Wars animation, so unfortunately that doesn't mean much to me. More power to whomever enjoys this kind of narrative. I'll just hold out for Andor's season 2.
I wonder why, maybe Ahsoka isn't known as a character for people who didn't watch Clone Wars when it aired? It's a good 15 years old anyway. We're three episodes in and it's head and shoulders...
I wonder why, maybe Ahsoka isn't known as a character for people who didn't watch Clone Wars when it aired? It's a good 15 years old anyway.
We're three episodes in and it's head and shoulders above what Obi-Wan was (it should've been a movie instead of stretching it to a series without adding anything).
Andor was practically an original character and people watched his tv-series just fine. The quality just isn't there, especially with the budget they have.
Andor was practically an original character and people watched his tv-series just fine. The quality just isn't there, especially with the budget they have.
People have Jedi overload, they want to see people who aren't Jedi or even Jedi-adjacent deal with the SW world. And Andor was a masterclass anyway, they had material for 3 seasons and they shoved...
People have Jedi overload, they want to see people who aren't Jedi or even Jedi-adjacent deal with the SW world.
And Andor was a masterclass anyway, they had material for 3 seasons and they shoved it into 3 arcs in a single season perfectly.
I watched the original Clone Wars show (the 2d animated one) and as far as I know she wasn't in that. I don't think that many people watched the 3D Clone Wars show but its fans are hard-core about...
I watched the original Clone Wars show (the 2d animated one) and as far as I know she wasn't in that.
I don't think that many people watched the 3D Clone Wars show but its fans are hard-core about it and it had enough of an audience to keep going (probably because it seems like it was made on the cheap, all those 3D animated shows that followed it do). I tried to get into it and couldn't. I think later on the show matures but at the start it's a straight up kids' show, and not a very interesting one, with rather long episodes. So I peaced out. And since Rebels and Resistance seem kid-oriented and follow TCW I never watched those either.
The 2D -version was Genndy Tartakovsky's baby, it was more about the style than the lore IMO - and his style is very distinctive. It only ran for 27 episodes. The 3D Clone Wars has 133 episodes,...
The 2D -version was Genndy Tartakovsky's baby, it was more about the style than the lore IMO - and his style is very distinctive. It only ran for 27 episodes.
The 3D Clone Wars has 133 episodes, with the latest season having episodes with over 9.5 ratings on IMDB even three years after they were released. They brought in HUGE amounts of new lore and characters to the world and Dave Filoni, the showrunner, had direct input from George Lucas about the world.
Even my crush on Rosario Dawson can't get me through it. Filoni is just not cut out for live action story telling. Kenobi killed Star Wars for me and Ahsoka is not able to save it. The franchise...
Even my crush on Rosario Dawson can't get me through it. Filoni is just not cut out for live action story telling. Kenobi killed Star Wars for me and Ahsoka is not able to save it. The franchise is dead, and that sucks.
My Disney+ was canceled a few months ago when I got a new credit card and I didn't even notice til earlier this week. I'm interested in Ahsoka, but I can't justify paying for a subscription that I...
My Disney+ was canceled a few months ago when I got a new credit card and I didn't even notice til earlier this week. I'm interested in Ahsoka, but I can't justify paying for a subscription that I (apparently) use this little.
I agree with the fatigue take. Disney is churning these things out like hot cakes. Even if the shows are good, things seem repetitive. Star Trek is going through the same thing too.
Has the quality actually improved at all with Star Trek?
I got through the first season of Mass Effect: Picard and absolutely reviled what they'd done to Starfleet and the universe at large. Gone was the optimistic, philisophical future to think and aim for... in was the dark and gritty universe that just didn't fit.
I skipped even paying attention to any of the other Star Trek's because of Picard S1's awful premise.
It's the best.
Since you seem like you watched everything, maybe you'd help: I couldn't stomach the strange red angel weirdness of Discovery, and I don't feel too inclined to watch Picard 1, 2.
Is it okay to watch just Picard 3, or will I be super confused? And, does Strange New Worlds lean on Discovery/Picard?
It's fine to skip Picard completely IMO. I watched all of it and it 100% ran on nostalgia, the actual plots were meh at best. Season 3 is the least bad and I think you can watch it standalone if you want the nostalgia trip of the TNG crew getting back together.
Strange New Worlds has a crossover with Lower Decks, which is the greatest thing ever. Otherwise it's pretty much a standalone thing. Monster/problem of the week, no infighting between the crew, competent crew members who know their stuff. Excellent stuff.
Ouch! Though I'm not surprised.
Thanks for this. Strange New Worlds, here I come!
Huh. Re: Picard I had a different reaction. S1 I loved (once I got through the opening needless chases and “action”) probably for the themes. Season 2 I found kind of meh, but I enjoyed seeing Q again- but I found the writing of S3 just egregiously bad. Infuriatingly so. Fwiw- there’s my take.
I love the S1 episode Nepenthe - yeah it was fan service but it was beautiful fan service.
Picard definitely had quite a few meh episodes. But I'm glad I watched it.
FWIW, I gave up on Lower Decks a few episodes in and Strange New Worlds is very good.
Yeah, I am loving SNW. I wrote a long plea to keep it like S1/TOS more going forward a few week back (with more Picard S3 vitriol) I'm considering trying out Lower Decks, but generally I'm not an animation fan - excepting Avatar and Korra.
The VA for Mariner is annoyingly shouty, but otherwise it's a solid comedy take on ST.
Although there are some really hard hitting episodes in there that kinda surprise you. A bit like they did with Orville.
Considering there's a crossover, is there a best watch order with those two? Or just "Meh, watch first one then the other"?
As long as you have passing knowledge of Lower Decks, you can enjoy the crossover episode at the end of season 2.
But IMO LD is worth it, the comedy is a bit heavy-handed at times, but it does have heart and actual plot.
Noted, thanks!
You saying this made me realize I've made a typo. I couldn't stomach it either. I'm having trouble putting it into words, but it was way off.
Already familiar with that, so no biggie.
Excited for the crossover, thanks!
What makes Pike knowing his fate gives a bit of a philosophical bent to SNW. He's like Sisyphus in that he knows the boulder is going to roll down the hill anyway but he's happy to return and do the job all over again. Pike knows he's screwed but he's making the most of life, as if that knowledge is a gift.
Michael Burnham needs to be quieter and sadder, and have access to a time machine. Whenever Michael Burnham's not on-screen, everyone should be asking, "Where's Michael Burnham?"
I'd add Star Trek: Prodigy here with it's IMDB rating of 7.4
It starts as a kids show, but grows up pretty fast to be actually good. It also has cameos from live action ST cast members along the way. Worth the watch if you need more ST in your life.
I enjoyed TNG, I loved DS9. I adore the moral grey area that almost everything has to that. Picard played by the rules too much, or... to quote Q: "Picard never hit me!"
Someone else reccomended S3 of Picard. I'll give that SNW a view.
Thanks buddy
I don't think using the IMDB ratings is the best metric given that they're user reviews and there was a huge 'anti-woke' outcry from 'fans'. Despite our beliefs and the message of the show, some Trekkers (a label I would self identify with), can be just awful and toxic. But look at the IMDB score breakdowns, they're are all over the place and the fact that 10% give the show a 1 and 20% give it a 10% is absolutely absurd and reeks of review bombing and the backlash to review bombing. To me, the RT critic ratings are probably a bit more fair (though I heavily disagree that S2 of PIC was "better" than S2 of DIS) and honestly paint DIS as a decent but unremarkable show.
Personally, I feel DIS is fine though I do have issues with it. PIC seasons 1 and 2 I felt were some of the worst seasons of Star Trek I've ever seen though to my great shame, I never finished VOY or ENT. Even then I still watched and season 3 of PIC felt like a nice reward for enduring seasons 1 and 2
I think the reviews of DIS also suffered quite a lot from the questionable choices of the first season, like what it tried to do with Klingons, which to many came off as needless change for the sake of change or an attempt by the showrunners to leave an oversized footprint in the franchise. Each "generation" of Trek has taken creative liberties but that felt different somehow.
My personal quibble with the series is its obsession with universe-scale threats that wind up conveniently being caused and/or solved by a single person. I think it would've been more interesting had it stuck almost exclusively to lower stakes, especially post-timeskip where the setting is primed well for that kind of story.
I'm 100% with you. Season after season of extinction level events were really annoying and fatiguing, particularly the way 'the burn' was solved, which was just... so dumb. Perhaps the feeling was that you need the potential for a large scale catastrophe in order propel interest in serialized Star Trek/sci-fi but I think plenty of series have demonstrated that it's not needed. I think you can create tension without the threat of catastrophic consequences. I also agree that I wish they did more with the 31st century stuff because I've always wondered about post TNG/DS9/VOY era Star Trek and I think it had so much potential. Season 4 did a better job with it but it still relied on "if we don't figure this out, our galaxy will perish" kind of tropes.
I guess my feeling is that I understand some criticisms and dislike of DIS, but I feel the level of hatred and vitriol pointed at the show is just ridiculous. Like or not, we don't get LD or SNW without DIS. Do I feel DIS is the best Star Trek ever? Absolutely not, it's pretty middling but as bad as some episodes have been, I haven't ever questioned continuing DIS the way I did PIC after season 2 lol
Maybe check out Picard Season 3. After a disappointing S01 and an awful S02 they changed the showrunner, and the new guy (Terry Matalas) wrote a great finale for Picard as a character, that largely ignored the first two seasons and felt like a successful fusion between the Star Trek of old and a more modern presentation. They cared about the characters and the 'lore' in S03 again, and (after being very disappointed by ST Discovery and the earlier Picard seasons) I liked this one a lot.
Picard Season 3 is a good apology for Nemesis and Season 1 existing.
Strange New Worlds is probably the best of the new batch, and is the most like a classic Star Trek show.
I'll give it a read online and then have a crack at it.
I was so sorely disappointed by a lot of the new Trek stuff. I even went and bought Voyager and DS9 books to fill the void! They're so good compared to the absolute trite waffle we seem to get for Star Trek these days.
Lower Decks is written by someone who gets trek. Easily the best thing to happen to trek in a long long time (i gave up after voyager, which i hesitate to rewatch).
Picard is written by someone who doesn't even know the plot or the setting. The romulan planet blew up so romulans are refuge's now?
This is like saying New York blew up so all Americans are refugees in Europe now. It's just so lazy when it doesn't need to be.
Now does this matter to the average viewer who probably isn't that familiar with trek or didn't even notice that yeah, this makes no damn sense. Not really, but that level of "effort" was put into the entire show. It's someone else's sci fi action script with the skin of star trek draped over it.
I think it's supposed to be more like the impact of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem for the Jewish people. "Refugee" would be less appropriate than to say they are a "diaspora" culture now, without a homeland.
That is still lazy writing though, if you're gonna do hamfisted metaphors to real history I'd want you to get into the very gritty detail and nuance of it. Not just vaguely wave in its direction and rely on the audience's emotional associations to do all the work of giving it heft.
But then why are they "refugee's" in federation space? There's literally dozens if not hundreds of planets in the romulan empire they could be refugee's on, and yet somehow it's implied they're mostly stuck in federation space?
Adjacent to fatigue, there is also being overwhelmed, which felt like more relevant to Trek.
If you have time for 2 things, and 3 things of a franchise are going on in parallel, it may be you need all 3 to experience it fully. Some will make time or whatever, but some will just... give up on the franchise.
I think this ties to the spoiler culture in that some audiences require immaculate conditions to experience media (all 3 things, without spoilers, 4K, the moment they release, etc.) or else they would rather not.
Star Trek is also overwhelming to new viewers. I'm someone who watched the odd episode of it in the 90s/2000s but never really got into it. I ended up watching all of TOS a few years back but never moved on from that because there's so much, apart from seeing a couple episodes of Discovery and Picard.
Meh for me it's a huge quality drop. I'll watch whatever is good, but they're not putting out much that's good. Mando s1 came out and nailed the SW and bounty hunter vibe. Great stuff.
Then we got boba fett.
I read the various EU boba fett books as a kid. I was really bummed when clone wars basically destroyed all of them, but I figured they could still work the tales of the bounty hunter (or uh...whatever it was, 3 part series) into something and give fett his purpose back.
What we got, was a fucking mess. It's pretty clear that no one on that show knew what to do with Fett. I have no idea if it's the actor or the writers or what, but every other character on that show has more clear purpose and character. Having Fett save the day on a rancor rather than using the Slave 1 is just...missing the point so entirely as to be amazing.
And then the absurdity of Mando having the best fett episode. Not just literally, but also figuratively. Everything mando did in that opening scene is what I'd expect from EU book fett.
So it's with this kick to my childhood i've glanced at Obiwan, andor, and whatever else at. Mando S3 is still on my list, and i've been told andor episode 1 sucks but the rest is worth it (i loved rogue one), and obi wan just reeked of "well it's got name recognition so just phone in the script).
It's so so strange when they've got SO many good plots to crib from. We're FINALLY getting Thrawn and I couldn't care less because dear god they've done nothing with him, and i'm not sure they will. Hell maybe he'll go ride a rancor to.
It all feels mass produced at the end of the day, and IF you get someone who really cares about the material involved it can be wonderful, but it's so so rare, which is so odd given they've got obvious indicators that it matters.
For what it's worth, Andor really is truly worth it. So much so that when something Disney But Not Star Wars comes out, it's immediately compared to Andor (like "Secret Invasion Could Be Marvel's Andor": https://gamerant.com/marvel-secret-invasion-star-wars-andor-comparisons-similarities/).
Andor is simply a very well written show, and even if it wasn't Star Wars it would've been just as much of a banger show.
The problem for me as a huge Star Trek fan is... why risk investing time in the new stuff when the old stuff is so rewatchable? And there is so much there - TOS, TNG, DS9... all so good.
With Star Wars I assume it's a pretty similar situation.
I don't watch the Star Trek shows, but from what I've heard from fans I know, new Star Trek has been improving and a lot of people really seem to enjoy SNW.
I used to be a Star Wars fan and honestly Disney Star Wars has been so bad I just don't care anymore and have lost interest. I'm still up for playing Star Wars games if they look interesting but I'm done with the TV/movie stuff.
I disagree with fatigue. I think the creativity and the nostalgia farming is the issue. These shows need creative freedom and risk-taking, not anchoring off existing characters.
Just finished the latest episode. I love the Ahsoka character. She's probably the most interesting character in the Star Wars universe. Started off as an obnoxious apprentice, but ended up being instrumental in Anakin's fall. Dave Filoni was able to retcon her into the Skywalker saga and make the story Lucas tried to tell more coherent.
Still, somehow they managed to make the show dedicated to her...super boring.
IMO, this Ahsoka doesn't feel like Ahsoka I know.
Right? She was all grown up in Rebels, but her personality was still present in her maturity.
This Ahsoka has the emotional range of a traffic cone.
I loved all the characters and the rebels show, but the only one in the live action that feels right is chopper. I haven't like the live action asoka in any of the shows she's been in, just feels miscast or misplayed, way too flat. Sabine actress feels like she's remembering her lines during her perfomance and has some weirds pauses and inflections. Herra actress has one verbal range only of flat monotone. If you compare say mon Mothra to herra in the last episode you can see the huge difference in stage presence between the two actors.
Honestly the big win for the show for me has been the VFX artists, the settings and creatures and vehicles look amazing. The performances feel flat and emotionless and don't grab me in like the animated versions of the characters did.
It's still an ok feeling show so far for me though, I don't hate it.
Look i've seen sad traffic cones....
But yeah this really nails it. I never go through rebels but even to me with the little i've seen something feels off/phoned in. I just get the feeling that someone has already decided that on the chart they're at "peak" engagement from quality and now it's time to cash in on name alone and cut every corner.
Bit of a shame. I'm not a Star Wars fan and while I've seen the movies, the TV shows haven't done it for me. Only made a few episodes into the Mandalorian, finished Andor but wasn't all that impressed, and I haven't touched anything else since Disney took over.
I always heard good things about the animated shows, particularly Rebels and even the Thrawn book trilogy so I figure I'd give Ahsoka a shot and I've enjoyed it. Maybe it's because I'm not all in on Star Wars nor do I have Disney+ but to a complete casual like me, this feels more like the original Star Wars trilogy aka fantasy in space. Hope more people give it a shot.
Interestingly I've felt the opposite. I've loved pretty much all of the shows they've come out with, while being kind of meh about the movies, especially the sequels from mid 2010s. The world building and dialogue in Mandalorian and Andor especially is great, and I like that they expose you to additional lore in the Star Wars universe that isn't just the Skywalker saga. They really have a lot of freedom to expand while bringing in elements that drew people to Star Wars in the first place.
Oh for clarification, I didn't love the movies, I just simply watched them and felt they were fine. I was actually most excited about Andor because it was Star Wars without the Skywalkers and was sold to me as political/espionage suspense thriller but it never hit for me.
I gave the first episode a shot. I saw that it starts off directly with a MacGuffin, at which point I tuned out. I just can't take it anymore.
Compare Ashoka's opening scene with Andor; it's a night and day difference.
The pilot of Ahsoka is written and directed by Dave Filoni, who was the showrunner of the Clone Wars animation and is pretty much the last one who was directly consulted by George Lucas on the world of Star Wars. He also created the character of Ahsoka.
The first two episodes have a TON of nods to the animation series (both CW and Rebels) with direct shot-for-shot parallels with how things ended between Ahsoka and another character.
But if a MacGuffin map makes you immediately stop watching, I can't convince you otherwise.
I haven't watched any of the Star Wars animation, so unfortunately that doesn't mean much to me. More power to whomever enjoys this kind of narrative. I'll just hold out for Andor's season 2.
I wonder why, maybe Ahsoka isn't known as a character for people who didn't watch Clone Wars when it aired? It's a good 15 years old anyway.
We're three episodes in and it's head and shoulders above what Obi-Wan was (it should've been a movie instead of stretching it to a series without adding anything).
Andor was practically an original character and people watched his tv-series just fine. The quality just isn't there, especially with the budget they have.
People have Jedi overload, they want to see people who aren't Jedi or even Jedi-adjacent deal with the SW world.
And Andor was a masterclass anyway, they had material for 3 seasons and they shoved it into 3 arcs in a single season perfectly.
I watched the original Clone Wars show (the 2d animated one) and as far as I know she wasn't in that.
I don't think that many people watched the 3D Clone Wars show but its fans are hard-core about it and it had enough of an audience to keep going (probably because it seems like it was made on the cheap, all those 3D animated shows that followed it do). I tried to get into it and couldn't. I think later on the show matures but at the start it's a straight up kids' show, and not a very interesting one, with rather long episodes. So I peaced out. And since Rebels and Resistance seem kid-oriented and follow TCW I never watched those either.
Then came Disney and... blech.
The 2D -version was Genndy Tartakovsky's baby, it was more about the style than the lore IMO - and his style is very distinctive. It only ran for 27 episodes.
The 3D Clone Wars has 133 episodes, with the latest season having episodes with over 9.5 ratings on IMDB even three years after they were released. They brought in HUGE amounts of new lore and characters to the world and Dave Filoni, the showrunner, had direct input from George Lucas about the world.
Even my crush on Rosario Dawson can't get me through it. Filoni is just not cut out for live action story telling. Kenobi killed Star Wars for me and Ahsoka is not able to save it. The franchise is dead, and that sucks.
My Disney+ was canceled a few months ago when I got a new credit card and I didn't even notice til earlier this week. I'm interested in Ahsoka, but I can't justify paying for a subscription that I (apparently) use this little.
You can have too much of a good thing.