Looking for a top down tactical wargame
I've tried hundreds of searches (variations of this) on google and either I have no idea what to search for, or it doesn't exist.
I'll keep it short, the best way to explain is that I'm looking for a game in the style of the Total War franchise, but focused (mostly) on the top down battle view:
I'm not that interested in manually managing tens of regions, I don't want to 3d my way through a battle front while the soldiers gore eachother, I just want to focus on being a general that wins battles through tactics. Where I can apply strategies like Oblique Formation and False Gap to outmaneuver my enemies.
Do you have any recommendations for me? Is there any game that even comes close to this? (apart from the Total War franchise - which I love by the way, but the games tend to last too long, and they're getting bigger and bigger with each release)
I'd be interested in something like this too, as someone who loves watching battle visualization YouTube videos, and is also a Total War fan who dislikes the management game aspects as well. I have yet to encounter any games that match your description though. :(
You could try playing Warhammer 40k on Tabletop Simulator, and find some people to play it with by joining their Discord server. I suspect it's about as close to what you're looking for as I think you're going to get... and the opponent likely won't suck as bad as AI usually does. ;) I haven't tried it yet so can't speak to how good the community is, but I've been tempted... especially since I want to get into 40k, but spending $1000 on miniatures isn't super appealing. :P
p.s. Speaking of 40k... It's spaceship battles, not infantry, but Battlefleet Gothic: Armada and Armada 2 might be something you enjoy too.
Glad to see I'm not alone! I also love watching historical battle visualizations :)
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll be looking into them.
Does Vassal still exist? The provided screenshots by OP looks remarkably like a tabletop miniatures game played in Vassal back in the day. Probably able to get even closer to the 2d dream playing on Vassal.
https://vassalengine.org/
Looks like it. Can you remember the name of the game module in Vassal that you're thinking of?
I used it to play Malifaux back in the day (maybe 2012?). With any of the Vassal modules, as far as I'm aware, you have to know the rules of the game fairly well, as there are not really rules guides built in like many of the Tabletop Simulator modules have.
It's not exactly what you're after, but Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord ticks several of the boxes:
You're a leader of an army you compose of your own units.
You manage large battles and the units with tactics on squad-level (both in placing units before battle, and in a 3D battle mode.
You can choose to fight yourself, or spend the time in battle managing other units.
You can choose to build an empire, building cities and forts (but can also entirely ignore this).
There are quests where you performing as a soldier is important, and party management of your most important generals.
The game isn't fully released yet, and has had significant development since release. There's a lot of video on gameplay, strategy etc. you can check out to see if it's a game for you or not.
It's an amazing franchise, cRPG mod on Warband was some of the best multi-player ever.
I would argue that it is slightly too different from what OP is looking for, and counter with a very old series....Myth from Bungie. It's not 2D top down, but pretty close, and focuses almost entirely on the position and formation of your units. Tactics matter, and the number of units is relatively small, nothing like the absurdity of the Total War series. It is also purely tactical, no territory control or base building, just pure battles.
I've tried the first game years ago, I think it may have a bit too much micromanaging? Or is the 2nd game much different in this aspect?
Can you flesh out tactical orders before the battles, or do you have to manually go to each unit and tell them "attack here, retreat there"?
I'm not the person you replied to but I can chime in here with some experience of the game (and its predecessors). It's definitely not set-and-forget, but it doesn't have to be too micromanage-y if you know what you're doing. Your army can be grouped into specific units (like cavalry, infantry, and archers) and then you can press a button to select that unit, then issue them a command as a unit (such as advance, or guard this spot, or charge, or space out more). And you can always press a button that just tells them to do as they see fit. Very useful if you just want to focus on running people through with spears or whatever.
If you've set up your army and units properly in the main campaign, you can just enter a battle and press like 9 keys and all your units know what to do. E.G. infantry > movement > hold position, archers > movement > wait here, and cavalry > movement > follow me.
So not the top-down tactical gameplay you mentioned in your original post, but will probably interest a lot of people here looking for similar things.
I don't really play RTSs, so I can't really recommend this one, but your pictures reminded me of something I read about and I think it was this: Ultimate General: Gettysburg
It's a rather small indie title and it's kinda 3D-ish, but maybe it's worth a look?
e: just saw in the reviews that the devs apparently also released another game for the whole civil war
I don't really mind that it's 3D as long as it allows me to strategize on the battlefield. It looks interesting, I'll look into it. Thanks for the recommendation!
I think I get what you're looking for, but unfortunately I don't have a good answer for you. A lot of the other commenters are posting some great games out there, but none of them seem to fit with what you're asking. It seems to me like you want a total war game but without the campaign (or at least a heavily reduced one) and with basic graphical representation of the armies (instead of fully-animated units and battlefields).
I too would love to play such a game, but am unaware of any exactly like that. I could recommend you other grand strategy games like EU4 or CK3, but those feature grand campaigns with province management and don't let you command specific troops in battle like the TW games (though tactically they are very fleshed out and deep). Other games mentioned, like Bannerlord are also great, but IMO a lot more rpg-heavy than what you are looking for. The focus there is on your individual character and story rather than on troop management.
And then there are other rts games and tactics games but they too seem very different than what you are asking for. Focusing instead on individual character management and abilities/skills/items/etc. rather than armies and battles.
I wish I had a better answer (since again, I would love to find a game exactly like you're describing), but I think the closest thing would be Total War games themselves. Maybe try an older one if you haven't before, like Rome or Medieval, heck even Empire and Shogun 2 are pretty old by now. They have fewer units than the modern games, which means that less of your time will be spent in the grand campaign picking out which buildings and provinces to build/develop and can instead focus slightly more on the battles themselves. Newer TW games have added a lot of features and options that make them way more involved and micromanagement-heavy, which it sounds like you don't want to do. Heck maybe even turn down your graphic settings so the individual units feel more like abstract blocks of infantry instead of individual models, lol.
Side note: maybe someone should make a roguelike where the gameplay loop is filled with these tactical top-down battles and between them you just boost up your units and recruit new ones. Battle > upgrade units > battle > hire new units > battle > upgrade units > battle > repeat. Would get rid of a lot of the tedium of grand campaigns while honing in on the top down battles themselves.
Maybe you’d be interested in the Steel Division, WARNO, and Wargame: Red Dragon franchises of RTS games?
As far as deep tactical gameplay, I'm not sure there's any beating wargame red dragon.
The two prior installments: European Escalation and Airland Battle, are both excellent slow paced, realistic battle simulation games.
Upcoming Broken Arrow might also fit into this category.
Lookup Jagged Alliance 3 if you'd like a squad action tactical game. Its pretty good.
Jagged Alliance 2 is... dated (think 1999), but still a gem of a game.
They're pretty old, but you might enjoy Sid Meier's Gettysburg and Antietam.
Sid's Gettysburg was hands down one of the best games ever made period. It's one of those few games that (having played it like 25 years ago) I think it legitimately made me a better "tactical and strategic thinker". Playing it PvP on dialup-level connections was a real trip.
Sounds like maybe you're looking for hexbased wargames, which run the gamut.
One of the more popular, well regarded games would be Gary Grigsby's War in the East. I haven't played it myself.
For a little bit more straightforward you have Strategic Command WW2: World at War. While this one does simulate the entire world as a point of the conflict, it's a little more simplified and less granular than other hexbased games. The company that makes this does make more region based games, but I haven't played them.
I'm not exactly a Grognard, but I've played a few of these games and there are dozens, hundreds more and I'm sure just reading reviews or finding a Computer Wargaming forum would lead you down the road to the best titles in the genre.
Also, saw it recommended earlier, but Ultimate General: Gettysburg is really good. I've played that one around 10-hours.
Edit: I realize I somewhat misread your original post and this may not be what you're looking for, but I'll leave it here anyway.
I read it the same way as you and I was going to reccomend the wargamming keyword. It's just a whole nother gaming land where you get tactics and details and fewee graphics. The games don't show up on most main stream gaming sites either.
I haven't enjoyed them as much since the late 90s but I like reading about them still, the downside is not playing them I don't remember names.
I know there are many out there that fit the description as that is basically the purpose of wargaming, win through tactics and not twitch.
Graviteam tactics is one I recall hearing a lot about, its a ww2 tank one with emphasis on higher level movements.
But yeah I think op needs to just go for top wargamming lists and I'm sure a few will jump out.
I'd recommend to look at DEFCON and also some of the games published by the publisher of Broken Arrow. They had some games that kinda fit your description.
Look up the developer AGEOD and their publishers Slitherine. They have a bunch of tactical wargames. For example Field of Glory 2 if you want ancient/medieval battles. Only caveat is they follow the Paradox model of many, many paid DLCs, but I’m sure you can have fun for a while in the base games.