Sounds like you already know you’re okay. That’s a hard thing to always believe in so I would say don’t beat yourself up for doubting yourself sometimes. I saw a video from a therapist on...
Exemplary
Sounds like you already know you’re okay. That’s a hard thing to always believe in so I would say don’t beat yourself up for doubting yourself sometimes.
I saw a video from a therapist on intrusive thoughts. And she used the bus metaphor to suggest a way of dealing with those thoughts. It boiled down to: notice your thoughts (the passengers), don’t argue with them, don’t try to get them off your bus, but don’t follow their instructions either. Just notice them, and realize you are the bus driver. Your rational mind is deciding where you’re driving to. Sometimes, some gaming.
It helped me a little. (Also because she used a toy bus to illustrate her metaphor and halfway through the video it suddenly started honking because she inadvertently pressed a button or something. The whole scene was so endearing I couldn’t help but try her approach.)
Similar approach to what I do. Whenever I feel this way, I think of how many people are out there right now arguing about any topic under the sun. From conspiracy theorist bloggers to carpenters...
Similar approach to what I do.
Whenever I feel this way, I think of how many people are out there right now arguing about any topic under the sun. From conspiracy theorist bloggers to carpenters and scientists - everyone has an opinion, and most questions don't have one correct answer (particularly as you move away from hard sciences - the best way to live your life is very far from being a hard science).
My brain is full of conflicting voices, opinions, and ideals, and they're all just bloggers, journalists, and scientists sharing their views. I have to decide if one or more of those opinions are valuable and useful to me based on whatever information I have, but in the end I get to choose whose advice I want to take.
Sometimes I'll catch my mom's voice in my head or feel guilty about something - probably installed in me when I went to church as a kid or whatever. That is a garbage blogger being annoying. I close it out just like I would a Fox news article. Not interested.
The video game thing, I mean, do what makes you happy. Double check that someone didn't instill guilt into you. If you actually feel like it's not a good use of time, then cut back accordingly. But if you set aside societal expectations and all the other garbage, you will see that life doesn't come with instructions or pre-set goals. You live ONE TIME and it's up to you to decide what this all means, what's important, what you want to do with your time, etc.
In 100 years, John CEOs accomplishments will mean exactly the same as your video game achievements - shit.
Let's focus on the facts, and rational, logical reasoning. A simple checklist: How much is X affecting... work/income: getting up early enough, focusing on the job; gaming during work hours (if...
Let's focus on the facts, and rational, logical reasoning. A simple checklist:
How much is X affecting...
work/income: getting up early enough, focusing on the job; gaming during work hours (if remote)
health: getting enough sleep, not yawning during the day; meeting exercising/fitness goals; still eating reasonable things (vs reaching for fast food or quick-prep things to get back to gaming), eating away from gaming vs while gaming; no carpal tunnel, frozen shoulder, etc.
you get the idea
If your self assessment checks out, then it's probably not a problem. If you see yourself in a yellow zone with any of the above, though, your conscience is probably right, and should probably be listened to to steer things back to where they need to be.
This is a great succinct checklist. On bullet 2, the big thing is communication. Beyond just “tonight I’m hoping to play a bit of X.” What is your family’s body language telling you? Is there...
This is a great succinct checklist. On bullet 2, the big thing is communication. Beyond just “tonight I’m hoping to play a bit of X.” What is your family’s body language telling you? Is there stuff happening that you should be a part of? If they’re also just gonna be reading or watching TV, is it possible to play your game in their company, say on a Steam Deck?
It sounds like some of your discomfort comes from the arbitrary amount of time you spend gaming. Have you considered scheduling gaming time? Something like on Wednesdays from x-y time or Tuesdays...
It sounds like some of your discomfort comes from the arbitrary amount of time you spend gaming.
Have you considered scheduling gaming time? Something like on Wednesdays from x-y time or Tuesdays and Thursdays from x-y time. Whatever you could look at and feel comfortable spending this amount of time per week on. Check in with your loved ones to make sure they agree and that there are no conflicts.
If you find yourself doing it outside of those times you know you're spending more time on it than you're comfortable with because you've predefined what that is.
One other component of this that may or may not apply to you is the non-stop "encouragement" to monetize everything. The internet has made several job types that were once very hard to get into...
One other component of this that may or may not apply to you is the non-stop "encouragement" to monetize everything.
The internet has made several job types that were once very hard to get into now very accessible, especially anything involving entertaining (YouTubers, streamers, and other "content creators") and handmade product/crafts (mainly those that can be sold through an online store). Granted, it's not easy to become "big" in these fields, but it's possible.
And because it's possible... you'll see tons of people grinding to get there, and telling others that if they aren't trying to profit from their time spent, that they're wasting their time.
But if you take a step back, it's absolutely insane to suggest everything we do should go towards making money. It's completely fine to spend time doing what we want for the sake of enjoying it - even if we spend some money on it. Because if that wasn't the case... everyone making money wouldn't have a source of income, because no one would have time to spend their money on "time wasting activities" while working so hard.
As long as what you're enjoying doesn't harm or endanger anyone (including yourself), go for it.
I've long since been arguing that video games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment, measuring by cost per unit time. Sports or athletic activities, movies, live shows, sports spectating:...
I've long since been arguing that video games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment, measuring by cost per unit time. Sports or athletic activities, movies, live shows, sports spectating: all quite expensive per hour. You can buy a video game, even a popular one at full price, say, 70 or even 80 USD. If you play that even for just 40 hours, you've paid just 2 bucks an hour. Many people play a game for well over 100 or 200 hours, making the value even better.
I don't think that's "uncool" at all. If my job checked a few more boxes, even though I'm not enjoying the work itself, I'd put up with it and stop looking for another one. But between the...
A lot of younger people may find me uncool, but I’ve always been content with a 9-5 job, even if the job did not always coincide with any of my hobbies.
I don't think that's "uncool" at all. If my job checked a few more boxes, even though I'm not enjoying the work itself, I'd put up with it and stop looking for another one. But between the aggressively annoying clients that my bosses admit they wouldn't work with if they weren't desperate, the potential future instability, the lack of benefits, the questionable morality of some of what I'm forced to do, and not enjoying the work itself... I'm doing what I can to find something else.
Yeah, what was originally a temporary job (in my mind) has turned into my longest length job. Job market sucks right now, trying to not get emotionally heightened in any direction, but it's tough....
Yeah, what was originally a temporary job (in my mind) has turned into my longest length job. Job market sucks right now, trying to not get emotionally heightened in any direction, but it's tough.
Are you me? I feel the exact same way. I also play mostly rogue-likes these days. The problem with the guilt is that I also feel stupid for spending most of my free time being productive instead...
Are you me? I feel the exact same way. I also play mostly rogue-likes these days.
The problem with the guilt is that I also feel stupid for spending most of my free time being productive instead of relaxing and doing what I want. So I “lose” either way.
The best way I’ve dealt with this is to manage the productivity and use gaming as a reward. I’ve done something productive, so I’m going to play something free of guilt for a while. Then when I inevitably recap my day I can say I got something done and I got to relax and have some fun. It isn’t perfect but it seems to help.
I think the desire to feel like we're always being "productive" with our time is an insidious one, sometimes a cultural expectation ingrained in at least some of us, for decades. Time enjoyed...
I think the desire to feel like we're always being "productive" with our time is an insidious one, sometimes a cultural expectation ingrained in at least some of us, for decades. Time enjoyed having fun (whatever that entails) is not wasted time, IMO.
However, I think it is valid to take a step back and analyze our behavior and make sure we're making trade-offs we're okay with. If video games / enjoyment / etc is being done at the expense of something else, you have to ensure you're okay with whatever level of trade-off is or isn't happening (health, relationships, work, etc), and I don't think that line is drawn in the same place for everyone, because our lives and situations are so different.
I also think another angle of analysis on this is valid, and this is the big time one I struggle with to this day, is often the trade-off I am making is at the expense of doing something else i enjoy too, so that can cause guilt- because games/media are often a "route of least resistance" to take for free time or enjoying oneself.
I have to remind myself that I'm actively making these trade-off choices because of how I feel, etc. and to not beat myself up over it... and I think the subtle, poisonous "must be productive" indoctrination rears its head here too... I often will have watched media or played games for hours and later think to myself "I could have been reading, drawing, writing music, doing stuff for my blog, practicing guitar, etc for those hours instead" and that balance of "multiple things I want to do" and taking the "easy" route of media/games still inclines me to feel guilty or frustrated, but a lot of the time it may just be true that I don't have the mental or physical energy for some of those other things- and thinking of some of those as "more productive" or "less productive" things to be doing I think just a sign of how, at least for me personally, deeply the "productivity" culture has poisoned me
I haven't yet figured out the best way to juggle this latter "balance of things i want to do" thing. It's like sometimes my actions still differ from what I, at least in my head, want for myself to be doing- and that disconnect, while not identical, has a flavor of "addiction" to it in a way I do not like
Bit of a side note, but a good read on this is a book called Burnout Society. A great quote from it:
I think the desire to feel like we're always being "productive" with our time is an insidious one, sometimes a cultural expectation ingrained in at least some of us, for decades
Bit of a side note, but a good read on this is a book called Burnout Society. A great quote from it:
“Today’s society is no longer Foucault’s disciplinary world of hospitals, madhouses, prisons, barracks, and factories. It has long been replaced by another regime, namely a society of fitness studios, office towers, banks, airports, shopping malls, and genetic laboratories. Twenty-first-century society is no longer a disciplinary society, but rather an achievement society [Leistungsgesellschaft]. Also, its inhabitants are no longer “obedience-subjects” but “achievement-subjects.” They are entrepreneurs of themselves.”
When guitar hero came out I used to play it and feel guilty that I was spending time pretending to learn guitar. So I got a real guitar and learned how to play that instead. Actually playing music...
When guitar hero came out I used to play it and feel guilty that I was spending time pretending to learn guitar. So I got a real guitar and learned how to play that instead. Actually playing music is also nonproductive since I’m not getting paid for it. But it has many social benefits and almost nobody considers music a waste of time.
As long as it doesn't affect other aspects of your life I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I do more or less the same, even the type of games is similar, I do sometimes whish it was a...
As long as it doesn't affect other aspects of your life I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I do more or less the same, even the type of games is similar, I do sometimes whish it was a more social hobby or that it'd allowed me to learn some useful skill but then I see the average online/mmo type of game and I quickly loose interest.
The only time I get bit by this is when playing a game that is particularly grindy (like most MMOs). I don't mind some slower progression in games but if the actual play isn't rewarding or just...
The only time I get bit by this is when playing a game that is particularly grindy (like most MMOs). I don't mind some slower progression in games but if the actual play isn't rewarding or just feels like pointless work then I'm done with it and will find something better to do.
I grew up with a lot of people that had the mentality that all games are a waste of time. But then I saw these same people spend hours in front of a TV or just sitting by a pool and realized they didn't know squat. As long as you are enjoying something and it's not getting in the way of responsibilities then there's no problem.
Yeah I usually prefer games but some TV is fine too. I think the important part is to just not stress over that little voice. It can be helpful to have as a reminder to evaluate if you've...
Yeah I usually prefer games but some TV is fine too. I think the important part is to just not stress over that little voice. It can be helpful to have as a reminder to evaluate if you've forgotten any responsibility but if not then you can to tell it to chill out and enjoy your free time.
I think you are right: there probably is something better you could be doing with your time. However, I might suggest looking at your situation from different perspectives. Suppose you had a good...
I think you are right: there probably is something better you could be doing with your time. However, I might suggest looking at your situation from different perspectives. Suppose you had a good friend who played video games when they could be doing something else that, presumably, was more productive. Would you think less of this friend for doing so? Would you be ashamed of your friend or your friendship? Perhaps, but you might also accept this part of them as it is.
While I do believe that dissatisfaction with ones self is an essential prerequisite for growth, kindness to ourselves is also important. Often, the way that we treat ourselves is reflected in our treatment of those closest to us - forbearance with our own shortcomings is excellent practice for being forebearing with others. In addition, there are no guarantees that our bad habits cannot be replaced by worse ones. How unfortunate would it be to curse one vice only to find it replaced with one that even desirable.
For what it's worth, I find that video games are an activity that allows me to be called away to help others without leaving behind a mess of tools in a partially completed project. So, if someone needs something, there's no downside to pausing my Noita run and helping where I am needed.
I acknowledge the original point, but it's also true that multiplayer games can't just be paused and "afk'ed" in the middle of action (I mean, not without in-game consequences).
I acknowledge the original point, but it's also true that multiplayer games can't just be paused and "afk'ed" in the middle of action (I mean, not without in-game consequences).
I'm 39 and I play since my teenage years. I also.played a lot more than I do today. One can say, we are quite similar in this regard. I also play singleplayer games and very rarely I do some...
I'm 39 and I play since my teenage years. I also.played a lot more than I do today. One can say, we are quite similar in this regard.
I also play singleplayer games and very rarely I do some online coop with my friends. I tend to play either story heavy games or logic or some racing (arcade and even a bit of sim) or RTS games.
I think of my gaming time as either "interactive movie" (story driven games), "doing stuff I can't in real time" (racing) or enhancing my thinking (RTS and logic games).
There are people around me that rather work on something that can be seen or used by others (ie. making things out of wood) in their free time, but I also know people that sit in front of TV most of the time, some of them seeming addicted to (all the) new series that get published on various subscription services or watching standard (free) program full of Hollywood action movies that are so predictable. And I also know about sport fans that can't miss anything football (soccer) related or that will watch everything F1 related.
And then there come people who spend all their time in pub drinking and bitching how their life is miserable and someone should do something for their good...
Considering circumstances, I'd say my gaming life is actually ok with say 2 hours a day average (sometimes a day without playing, other times 5 hours a day).
If video games doesn't dictate your life, I'd say you don't have to feel guilt about playing them.
Another positive side games gave me was at my teenage years when I learned English (I'm not natve speaker) - my Ensglish teacher one day asked me and my classmate "You are the ones who play...
Another positive side games gave me was at my teenage years when I learned English (I'm not natve speaker) - my Ensglish teacher one day asked me and my classmate "You are the ones who play videogames, right? I can see that" meaning that we already knew a lot, be it grammar or vocabulary.
I also play games depending on how busy life is. Steam Deck helps a lot for me, as I can play five minutes here, half an hour there, two hours before going to sleep... This is because I want to play. I like good movie but I like good story game even more. It is simply better to be part of the story, not just watch it go by.
And I really like thinking games like Talos Principle (which also have great story on top of all the puzzles), Factorio, Satisfactory, Shapez or any of Zactronics' games. These make you think, sometimes really hard, to advance and they brighten up your mind.
It ahouldn't becme an addiction though. With less than 2 hours a day, I think I'm ok.
I get feelings of guilt quite often, far more often than I probably should. One way I deal with that is a close examination of what’s really going on. If I don’t think I should be playing a video...
I get feelings of guilt quite often, far more often than I probably should. One way I deal with that is a close examination of what’s really going on.
If I don’t think I should be playing a video game right now, or possibly ever, what should I be doing? Is this that puritanical mindset showing up again that says I should always be doing something productive (work) all the time? Am I actually neglecting something else? If I were to have a conversation with a friend about their guilt over gaming in similar circumstances, what would I tell them?
I take breaks by getting up and walking around. Do something functional like clean something. Closer to bed I’ll switch from more intense games to more thinking games, like Dead Cells to Slay the...
I take breaks by getting up and walking around. Do something functional like clean something. Closer to bed I’ll switch from more intense games to more thinking games, like Dead Cells to Slay the Spire.
Yeah I feel you. I've been playing rdr2 quite a lot recently and I always think of the other hobbies I'm "neglecting"... the ones that are more "productive" especially (cooking, gardening). But I...
Yeah I feel you. I've been playing rdr2 quite a lot recently and I always think of the other hobbies I'm "neglecting"... the ones that are more "productive" especially (cooking, gardening). But I guess time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted time?
Please tell me how to like the campaign for RDR2, because I'm being honest, I'm feeling immense guilt for not liking this polished, beautiful and well acted game. I used to love AAA story driven...
Please tell me how to like the campaign for RDR2, because I'm being honest, I'm feeling immense guilt for not liking this polished, beautiful and well acted game.
I used to love AAA story driven games, but so far, it's The Witcher with worse gameplay, no mission saving and acting that I'd appreciate more as part of an acted movie.
For me, story driven games now just serve as a poor substitute for a film or a book narrative. If the action and gameplay is poor, then I find it really hard.
I think I just like westerns and being a part of them 🙂. I don't usually play much and that's probably my first AAA game tbh so there's that too. What keeps me going is probably also the fact that...
I think I just like westerns and being a part of them 🙂. I don't usually play much and that's probably my first AAA game tbh so there's that too.
What keeps me going is probably also the fact that the game is not linear at all from my perspective. Aside from some very forbidden zones (kept for later I guess), you can do pretty much whatever you want.
Personally I think it's pretty safe to say the action and gameplay in RDR2 are not poor, they are literally just a slightly more refined version of the second highest selling game of all time.
Personally I think it's pretty safe to say the action and gameplay in RDR2 are not poor, they are literally just a slightly more refined version of the second highest selling game of all time.
Maybe it's just that I think it's boring. I don't know how a cowboy shooter could be dressed up any more than it is, but because it's so simple mechanically, it leaves me wanting more front the...
Maybe it's just that I think it's boring. I don't know how a cowboy shooter could be dressed up any more than it is, but because it's so simple mechanically, it leaves me wanting more front the gameplay loop.
If the expectation is that the atmosphere and story serve as a backstop to simple gameplay, I guess I'd again rather just watch Deadwood again.
I am no psych, but I can say that with my own personal experiences, I felt a similar dissatisfaction and over time I drastically reduced my video game consumption. For me, it was a new job that...
I am no psych, but I can say that with my own personal experiences, I felt a similar dissatisfaction and over time I drastically reduced my video game consumption.
For me, it was a new job that had drastically swinging hours. Could be done at 8 hours, could be done as late as 12. The less free time meant I started prioritizing activities where I didn't just "turn my brain off," like I would with video games, so I picked up different hobbies. It felt like I was missing out when I turned my brain off, the time was precious again, hence the guilt.
It also heavily suspect that the job fills a lot of the needs I was getting through games, too: lots of micromanaging in a vehicle, a lot of driving around and exploring new places and nooks and crannies, lots of views of the city one would normally not get to see, physical exercise, etc.
Lastly, it's been 20 years with me and games. While innovations still occur, they're noticably fewer and farther in between, and the recurring cycles and patterns are obvious to me now. I haven't "seen it all," but I've seen enough to know that it was merely time for me to move on to something different, and there's no shame in that at all.
Well, again I'm not a psych, but... ....if that fear is quite a permeating one, to the point you find it inhibiting the enjoyment of any video game, there's no shame in going cold turkey to pursue...
Well, again I'm not a psych, but...
...there is always that background fear that if I'm not cautious, I may slip into playing too much again.
....if that fear is quite a permeating one, to the point you find it inhibiting the enjoyment of any video game, there's no shame in going cold turkey to pursue something more fulfilling in it's stead. I don't know what would be more fulfilling for you, but for me I found that through literature.
While I don't sense anything "identity crisis" in what you've said in these posts, it may also be worthwhile to look into "hyperconsumerism" and it's prevalence within "nerd culture," especially the parts about how it ties identity to the brands/things one consumes.
Insidiously, the "features" of nerd culture also work to make quitting the consumption of the "nerd stuff" more difficult, as quitting consumption is now akin to rejecting ones identity. (Ex: "I'm a gamer, so I must game, and stay up to 2am gaming, as that's what true gamers do. With enough time, any suggestions to change this routine becomes a social heresy, like suggesting a teetotaler to drink.")
This may not be a component at all for you, but it may still be worth looking into, for awareness' sake. That may explain the seeming reluctance I think I may be detecting, but again I am no psych.
For me, the fulfillment I derive is simply because literature is relatively unexplored ground, and that's how I'm able to "reach for the book instead of the controller." It does tie back to part...
For me, the fulfillment I derive is simply because literature is relatively unexplored ground, and that's how I'm able to "reach for the book instead of the controller."
It does tie back to part of what I was chasing with video games, too. I guess at some point earlier on in my video gaming "career" (for lack of a better term) I conflated the "all-engrossing" nature of video games as "good storytelling," and as a result made the connection that books and movies can't do this, so video games must be better than both.
YouTube personalities also likely helped to extend the lifespan of that fallacy, never explicitly stating but heavily inferring through this tone of 'advocacy' for a fledgling medium, as if they truly believed video games could usurp movies and books. If they believed it, it must be true.
The years go by, the patterns emerge and other fallacies creep in to support my initial fallacy, (great world-building does not make for a great story, but I didn't really know any better at the time) and I see those very same games fall victim to enshittification, the storytelling suffered, and I begin to wonder how these companies and studios couldn't seemingly care about what's supposed to be (in my eyes) the works of modern Homer.
Wait, how I can I be so sure to compare this to something like foundational texts? Even I know that's a hell of a claim.
.....have I even read Homer?....
......and from there, I became more open to the idea of reading driven by pleasure. The more books I read, the more I learned about storytelling in general, the less games I played. Now I know that video games can be good at telling different kinds of stories, I realize now that by mostly excluding books I've been doing myself a disservice. Sure, a game like Antichamber is truly amazing, and can probably serve as a method to describe Borges' experiences within The Aleph, but only Borges' writing within the story The Aleph can serve to provide all the before/after context and give those experiences about said Aleph any meaning.
So, I guess the origins of my problems are vastly different from what you have going on, so I'm not going to have a clear answer. I barely had exposure to reading earlier on in my life, (the accelerated reading program in elementary and middle schools served to produce nothing but ire for me toward reading, probably pushing me further to games as well) but nothing like your experiences. I am no psych, but with your background to books being academic in nature, could it be possible you're seeing burnout with all the academic 'higher thinking' topics? Brains need true downtime too, there's no shame in picking up something 'lower thinking.' If it has to be a book, maybe pick up someone like Wodehouse, or even something campy like RL Stine?
Maybe tie another hobby into the book reading? The Hobbit hits different after a 2 hour hike.
You mention in your comment “…never explicitly stating but heavily inferring through this tone of 'advocacy' for a fledgling medium, as if they truly believed video games could usurp movies and...
You mention in your comment “…never explicitly stating but heavily inferring through this tone of 'advocacy' for a fledgling medium, as if they truly believed video games could usurp movies and books. If they believed it, it must be true”.
Is there a reason why you think video games can’t have better stories than those from a book or a movie? Granted I’m not a person who is really into movies, and although I do enjoy reading it’s definitely not something I do often, so maybe my opinion is skewed because I haven’t read that many books that would be considered to be high quality storytelling, but I’ve played a few games (Nier Automata, Disco Elysium, The House in Fata Morgana, and more recently Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 to name a few) that genuinely have what I would consider to be fantastic storytelling. I’m also curious as to what genre of video games you were into before you stopped playing, because personally in my opinion RPGs have the best stories so that’s what I spend most of my time playing.
There's a saying that gets attributed to a bunch of people apparently (tried to look it up, and has been mentioned): I figure you're fine if you do the following: Meet all of your commitments...
It’s as though a voice inside my head tells me “you should be doing something else with your time.”
There's a saying that gets attributed to a bunch of people apparently (tried to look it up, and has been mentioned):
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
I figure you're fine if you do the following:
Meet all of your commitments
Complete all required tasks or have a plan to handle anything that needs doing now/soon.
Do not harm yourself or the others in your enjoyment of <thing>
This could be taking an edible and zoning out for six hours on a random Saturday, playing five hours of your favorite RPG on Tuesday evening, as long as you aren't hurting yourself or others in the process and meet your individual needs.
There are many things others do of little to no practical benefit while deriding people playing video games: Reading fiction, watching TV, going for walks around the neighborhood, etc, that are done to make one feel better. As long as it makes you happy and you aren't addicted to it (like those darn neighborhood walkers), you're doing fine.
Am I just too strict or mean to myself?
Yes, but you're far from the only one. There's this weird, international cultural vibe that you have to always be hustling, working, being productive, optimizing productivity, all that. It permeates all walks of life. This ignores a need for the individual's personal need for self-fulfillment, which could be derived from imaginary challenges proposed by artificial problems and avatars, riding a bicycle, reading a book, etc.
If it's no other consolation, videogames are neurologically more healthy than watching TV/videos/short form social media, which is a "pastime" many people spend hours doing that often requires minimal active thought to pursue. Not to deride people who enjoy TV, but if you're going to be sitting in front of a screen, it's another form of entertainment and, if it fulfills you, it fulfills you.
This is one of those things that I've wrestled with myself. It may be a bit of a rationalization, but I view it somewhat in terms of those studies that show diminishing returns in productivity...
This is one of those things that I've wrestled with myself. It may be a bit of a rationalization, but I view it somewhat in terms of those studies that show diminishing returns in productivity somewhere past 40h/wk of work and where the additional hours spent eventually start to become net-negative.
Yes, I probably could spend my gaming time doing something more productive on work stuff or on one of my personal projects. But at some point, those "productive hours" would start to be lower quality due to fatigue and possibly burnout.
I do sometimes think about how I probably have some X hrs of my life remaining and that I should try to maximize what I accomplish in them; but I also try to recognize that maximizing the hours spent trying to be "productive" is not the same thing! Mistaking them for each other is a cognitive bias.
And incidentally, I've noticed that if I try to code or do work stuff right up until the moment I go to bed, my brain will just keep spinning on the problems, keeping me awake and impacting my sleep. A bit of light gaming (or some other form of recreation) as a buffer before bed helps tremendously.
So some time ago I decided to give myself permission to take some gaming downtime as a form of self-protection. (That said, I do try to make sure to reserve it for after the kids are asleep and when my spouse is occupied by other hobbies; never when anyone needs me for something.)
be grateful that you still enjoy them. maybe the grass is always greener, but i used to be a huge gamer, but now i have anhedonia and can't enjoy them for more than 10-15 minutes about once a week...
be grateful that you still enjoy them. maybe the grass is always greener, but i used to be a huge gamer, but now i have anhedonia and can't enjoy them for more than 10-15 minutes about once a week or so
What has helped me immensely is to create a dedicated 'gaming window' during the day. For me, it's in the evening, before heading over to sleep. At some point I noticed my sleep quality worsened...
What has helped me immensely is to create a dedicated 'gaming window' during the day. For me, it's in the evening, before heading over to sleep. At some point I noticed my sleep quality worsened significantly if I did anything that would excite my mind before bedtime so now there's a window when the day is basically over for me and I use that 'gaming window' to relax and wind down. I also noticed long-term if I don't have this time of deep relaxation I burn out. So intentionally setting that window and understanding that this is needed for your mental health is key. The evening works great because it's the end of the day so it's easier for your mind to let go of the idea that you need to do something more.
Also, since you have this window don't play during the day. Make it a special time.
Secondly, I have found that even if you do set a window, there's another problem that arises. The problem of choosing what to do and sticking with that decision. I don't limit myself only to 1 game within that window. I also like to read, occasionally watch a series and play different games. I find this helps greatly with keeping things fresh and not getting attached to one activity. So I have a system of "flipping" what I will do within that days window and some extra rules like if I do the same activity two days in a row, It's not even considered on the third day. This system allows me to commit to one undertaking and ignore the mental wobble that you get of "maybe i should do something else?".
These two things have completely transformed my gaming experience. But here's the key: they work because they help quiet your mind and allow you to fully commit. The real foundation underneath both of these techniques is learning how to deeply immerse yourself in an activity. The time windows and rotation system are just tools, helpers that make that deeper engagement possible. Without it, your activity has no meaning to it, it's pointless and there is some dissatisfaction in it. Now there's a lot of various aspects that go into this, but the crux of it is turning your activity into a meditative practice.
Gaming can be a wonderful way to practice for that. Actually, anything can be. And if you learn the art, then the whole endeavor transforms into something beautiful. Then there is no problem.
I largely no longer have this problem. If you do what needs to be done during the day, don't get attached to one activity, and turn it into a learning experience - something beautiful, not something outside of your life that you do so you can get back to doing "real, productive stuff," but as part of your life - there's no problem. I genuinely enjoy gaming now.
Were you listening to a book by Shunryu Suzuki ? Perhaps his 'Zen mind, beginners mind' ? I have been reading his talks for a long time so naturally something of him must have rubbed off on me....
Were you listening to a book by Shunryu Suzuki ? Perhaps his 'Zen mind, beginners mind' ? I have been reading his talks for a long time so naturally something of him must have rubbed off on me.
But yeah, good spot on the Zen thing. It teaches you to go beyond your conditioned mind deeply into what IS right now. A good story that I recently read from a book, i think it speaks to your situation:
“Kato liked to hear Suzuki’s English-language version of classic Zen stories—some about the great old masters of China, others about the life of Dogen. In one story Suzuki told during a Wednesday evening lecture, Dogen met an old monk in China who was drying mushrooms by a monastery wall on a hot summer day. “Why are you out here in the heat? Why not go in and rest until the sun is lower in the sky?” Dogen asked. “This is what I’m doing now,” answered the monk. “It’s my job and no one else’s job. Why would I try to be somewhere else?”
“The time is now,” Suzuki said after he told the story. “What we are doing is now. There is no other time. This is reality. I am here now. You are here now. That incident with the old monk taught Dogen what a Buddhist life is, what reality is. It is not for another time or another place or another person.”
The monk isn't thinking about comfort or a "better" time to do his job. He's not resisting the heat or wishing he was in the shade. His reality, in that moment, is drying mushrooms. That's it. His mind isn't divided between what he's doing and what he'd rather be doing. He is fully present with his task.
Dogens mind is in the future, in the shade, calculating just like yours, thinking about how to make things more ideal, productive.
So, the whole point is to stop mentally running away. If you're washing dishes, just wash the dishes. If you're drying mushrooms in the sun, just dry the mushrooms in the sun. That, in itself, is the entire practice.
Once you do your whole guilt problem just fades away, things become finally clear. At some point you will look back and think "boy was this a dumb 'problem' that I had".
Exactly! I haven't read Becoming Yourself yet. Mentally putting it to my "to-read" list. I did go through both Zen Mind Beginners Mind, and more recently, Not Always So. I enjoyed the latter way...
The monk drying mushrooms was simply hot Buddha, right?
Exactly!
I haven't read Becoming Yourself yet. Mentally putting it to my "to-read" list. I did go through both Zen Mind Beginners Mind, and more recently, Not Always So. I enjoyed the latter way more even though the former is more well known. The talks in Zen Mind Beginners Mind feel deeper in a sense, but it's a bit harder to wrap your mind around.
Currently reading Crooked Cucumber and Branching Streams Flow in the Darkness. Loving both a lot !
Sounds like you already know you’re okay. That’s a hard thing to always believe in so I would say don’t beat yourself up for doubting yourself sometimes.
I saw a video from a therapist on intrusive thoughts. And she used the bus metaphor to suggest a way of dealing with those thoughts. It boiled down to: notice your thoughts (the passengers), don’t argue with them, don’t try to get them off your bus, but don’t follow their instructions either. Just notice them, and realize you are the bus driver. Your rational mind is deciding where you’re driving to. Sometimes, some gaming.
It helped me a little. (Also because she used a toy bus to illustrate her metaphor and halfway through the video it suddenly started honking because she inadvertently pressed a button or something. The whole scene was so endearing I couldn’t help but try her approach.)
Similar approach to what I do.
Whenever I feel this way, I think of how many people are out there right now arguing about any topic under the sun. From conspiracy theorist bloggers to carpenters and scientists - everyone has an opinion, and most questions don't have one correct answer (particularly as you move away from hard sciences - the best way to live your life is very far from being a hard science).
My brain is full of conflicting voices, opinions, and ideals, and they're all just bloggers, journalists, and scientists sharing their views. I have to decide if one or more of those opinions are valuable and useful to me based on whatever information I have, but in the end I get to choose whose advice I want to take.
Sometimes I'll catch my mom's voice in my head or feel guilty about something - probably installed in me when I went to church as a kid or whatever. That is a garbage blogger being annoying. I close it out just like I would a Fox news article. Not interested.
The video game thing, I mean, do what makes you happy. Double check that someone didn't instill guilt into you. If you actually feel like it's not a good use of time, then cut back accordingly. But if you set aside societal expectations and all the other garbage, you will see that life doesn't come with instructions or pre-set goals. You live ONE TIME and it's up to you to decide what this all means, what's important, what you want to do with your time, etc.
In 100 years, John CEOs accomplishments will mean exactly the same as your video game achievements - shit.
Let's focus on the facts, and rational, logical reasoning. A simple checklist:
How much is X affecting...
If your self assessment checks out, then it's probably not a problem. If you see yourself in a yellow zone with any of the above, though, your conscience is probably right, and should probably be listened to to steer things back to where they need to be.
This is a great succinct checklist. On bullet 2, the big thing is communication. Beyond just “tonight I’m hoping to play a bit of X.” What is your family’s body language telling you? Is there stuff happening that you should be a part of? If they’re also just gonna be reading or watching TV, is it possible to play your game in their company, say on a Steam Deck?
It sounds like some of your discomfort comes from the arbitrary amount of time you spend gaming.
Have you considered scheduling gaming time? Something like on Wednesdays from x-y time or Tuesdays and Thursdays from x-y time. Whatever you could look at and feel comfortable spending this amount of time per week on. Check in with your loved ones to make sure they agree and that there are no conflicts.
If you find yourself doing it outside of those times you know you're spending more time on it than you're comfortable with because you've predefined what that is.
One other component of this that may or may not apply to you is the non-stop "encouragement" to monetize everything.
The internet has made several job types that were once very hard to get into now very accessible, especially anything involving entertaining (YouTubers, streamers, and other "content creators") and handmade product/crafts (mainly those that can be sold through an online store). Granted, it's not easy to become "big" in these fields, but it's possible.
And because it's possible... you'll see tons of people grinding to get there, and telling others that if they aren't trying to profit from their time spent, that they're wasting their time.
But if you take a step back, it's absolutely insane to suggest everything we do should go towards making money. It's completely fine to spend time doing what we want for the sake of enjoying it - even if we spend some money on it. Because if that wasn't the case... everyone making money wouldn't have a source of income, because no one would have time to spend their money on "time wasting activities" while working so hard.
As long as what you're enjoying doesn't harm or endanger anyone (including yourself), go for it.
I've long since been arguing that video games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment, measuring by cost per unit time. Sports or athletic activities, movies, live shows, sports spectating: all quite expensive per hour. You can buy a video game, even a popular one at full price, say, 70 or even 80 USD. If you play that even for just 40 hours, you've paid just 2 bucks an hour. Many people play a game for well over 100 or 200 hours, making the value even better.
I don't think that's "uncool" at all. If my job checked a few more boxes, even though I'm not enjoying the work itself, I'd put up with it and stop looking for another one. But between the aggressively annoying clients that my bosses admit they wouldn't work with if they weren't desperate, the potential future instability, the lack of benefits, the questionable morality of some of what I'm forced to do, and not enjoying the work itself... I'm doing what I can to find something else.
Yeah, what was originally a temporary job (in my mind) has turned into my longest length job. Job market sucks right now, trying to not get emotionally heightened in any direction, but it's tough.
/noise
Are you me? I feel the exact same way. I also play mostly rogue-likes these days.
The problem with the guilt is that I also feel stupid for spending most of my free time being productive instead of relaxing and doing what I want. So I “lose” either way.
The best way I’ve dealt with this is to manage the productivity and use gaming as a reward. I’ve done something productive, so I’m going to play something free of guilt for a while. Then when I inevitably recap my day I can say I got something done and I got to relax and have some fun. It isn’t perfect but it seems to help.
I think the desire to feel like we're always being "productive" with our time is an insidious one, sometimes a cultural expectation ingrained in at least some of us, for decades. Time enjoyed having fun (whatever that entails) is not wasted time, IMO.
However, I think it is valid to take a step back and analyze our behavior and make sure we're making trade-offs we're okay with. If video games / enjoyment / etc is being done at the expense of something else, you have to ensure you're okay with whatever level of trade-off is or isn't happening (health, relationships, work, etc), and I don't think that line is drawn in the same place for everyone, because our lives and situations are so different.
I also think another angle of analysis on this is valid, and this is the big time one I struggle with to this day, is often the trade-off I am making is at the expense of doing something else i enjoy too, so that can cause guilt- because games/media are often a "route of least resistance" to take for free time or enjoying oneself.
I have to remind myself that I'm actively making these trade-off choices because of how I feel, etc. and to not beat myself up over it... and I think the subtle, poisonous "must be productive" indoctrination rears its head here too... I often will have watched media or played games for hours and later think to myself "I could have been reading, drawing, writing music, doing stuff for my blog, practicing guitar, etc for those hours instead" and that balance of "multiple things I want to do" and taking the "easy" route of media/games still inclines me to feel guilty or frustrated, but a lot of the time it may just be true that I don't have the mental or physical energy for some of those other things- and thinking of some of those as "more productive" or "less productive" things to be doing I think just a sign of how, at least for me personally, deeply the "productivity" culture has poisoned me
I haven't yet figured out the best way to juggle this latter "balance of things i want to do" thing. It's like sometimes my actions still differ from what I, at least in my head, want for myself to be doing- and that disconnect, while not identical, has a flavor of "addiction" to it in a way I do not like
Bit of a side note, but a good read on this is a book called Burnout Society. A great quote from it:
When guitar hero came out I used to play it and feel guilty that I was spending time pretending to learn guitar. So I got a real guitar and learned how to play that instead. Actually playing music is also nonproductive since I’m not getting paid for it. But it has many social benefits and almost nobody considers music a waste of time.
As long as it doesn't affect other aspects of your life I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I do more or less the same, even the type of games is similar, I do sometimes whish it was a more social hobby or that it'd allowed me to learn some useful skill but then I see the average online/mmo type of game and I quickly loose interest.
The only time I get bit by this is when playing a game that is particularly grindy (like most MMOs). I don't mind some slower progression in games but if the actual play isn't rewarding or just feels like pointless work then I'm done with it and will find something better to do.
I grew up with a lot of people that had the mentality that all games are a waste of time. But then I saw these same people spend hours in front of a TV or just sitting by a pool and realized they didn't know squat. As long as you are enjoying something and it's not getting in the way of responsibilities then there's no problem.
Yeah I usually prefer games but some TV is fine too. I think the important part is to just not stress over that little voice. It can be helpful to have as a reminder to evaluate if you've forgotten any responsibility but if not then you can to tell it to chill out and enjoy your free time.
I think you are right: there probably is something better you could be doing with your time. However, I might suggest looking at your situation from different perspectives. Suppose you had a good friend who played video games when they could be doing something else that, presumably, was more productive. Would you think less of this friend for doing so? Would you be ashamed of your friend or your friendship? Perhaps, but you might also accept this part of them as it is.
While I do believe that dissatisfaction with ones self is an essential prerequisite for growth, kindness to ourselves is also important. Often, the way that we treat ourselves is reflected in our treatment of those closest to us - forbearance with our own shortcomings is excellent practice for being forebearing with others. In addition, there are no guarantees that our bad habits cannot be replaced by worse ones. How unfortunate would it be to curse one vice only to find it replaced with one that even desirable.
For what it's worth, I find that video games are an activity that allows me to be called away to help others without leaving behind a mess of tools in a partially completed project. So, if someone needs something, there's no downside to pausing my Noita run and helping where I am needed.
I acknowledge the original point, but it's also true that multiplayer games can't just be paused and "afk'ed" in the middle of action (I mean, not without in-game consequences).
I'm 39 and I play since my teenage years. I also.played a lot more than I do today. One can say, we are quite similar in this regard.
I also play singleplayer games and very rarely I do some online coop with my friends. I tend to play either story heavy games or logic or some racing (arcade and even a bit of sim) or RTS games.
I think of my gaming time as either "interactive movie" (story driven games), "doing stuff I can't in real time" (racing) or enhancing my thinking (RTS and logic games).
There are people around me that rather work on something that can be seen or used by others (ie. making things out of wood) in their free time, but I also know people that sit in front of TV most of the time, some of them seeming addicted to (all the) new series that get published on various subscription services or watching standard (free) program full of Hollywood action movies that are so predictable. And I also know about sport fans that can't miss anything football (soccer) related or that will watch everything F1 related.
And then there come people who spend all their time in pub drinking and bitching how their life is miserable and someone should do something for their good...
Considering circumstances, I'd say my gaming life is actually ok with say 2 hours a day average (sometimes a day without playing, other times 5 hours a day).
If video games doesn't dictate your life, I'd say you don't have to feel guilt about playing them.
Another positive side games gave me was at my teenage years when I learned English (I'm not natve speaker) - my Ensglish teacher one day asked me and my classmate "You are the ones who play videogames, right? I can see that" meaning that we already knew a lot, be it grammar or vocabulary.
I also play games depending on how busy life is. Steam Deck helps a lot for me, as I can play five minutes here, half an hour there, two hours before going to sleep... This is because I want to play. I like good movie but I like good story game even more. It is simply better to be part of the story, not just watch it go by.
And I really like thinking games like Talos Principle (which also have great story on top of all the puzzles), Factorio, Satisfactory, Shapez or any of Zactronics' games. These make you think, sometimes really hard, to advance and they brighten up your mind.
It ahouldn't becme an addiction though. With less than 2 hours a day, I think I'm ok.
I get feelings of guilt quite often, far more often than I probably should. One way I deal with that is a close examination of what’s really going on.
If I don’t think I should be playing a video game right now, or possibly ever, what should I be doing? Is this that puritanical mindset showing up again that says I should always be doing something productive (work) all the time? Am I actually neglecting something else? If I were to have a conversation with a friend about their guilt over gaming in similar circumstances, what would I tell them?
I take breaks by getting up and walking around. Do something functional like clean something. Closer to bed I’ll switch from more intense games to more thinking games, like Dead Cells to Slay the Spire.
Yeah I feel you. I've been playing rdr2 quite a lot recently and I always think of the other hobbies I'm "neglecting"... the ones that are more "productive" especially (cooking, gardening). But I guess time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted time?
Please tell me how to like the campaign for RDR2, because I'm being honest, I'm feeling immense guilt for not liking this polished, beautiful and well acted game.
I used to love AAA story driven games, but so far, it's The Witcher with worse gameplay, no mission saving and acting that I'd appreciate more as part of an acted movie.
For me, story driven games now just serve as a poor substitute for a film or a book narrative. If the action and gameplay is poor, then I find it really hard.
What keeps you going with this game?
I think I just like westerns and being a part of them 🙂. I don't usually play much and that's probably my first AAA game tbh so there's that too.
What keeps me going is probably also the fact that the game is not linear at all from my perspective. Aside from some very forbidden zones (kept for later I guess), you can do pretty much whatever you want.
Cool - so very much aligned with its GTA cousin then. Thanks for the response.
Personally I think it's pretty safe to say the action and gameplay in RDR2 are not poor, they are literally just a slightly more refined version of the second highest selling game of all time.
Maybe it's just that I think it's boring. I don't know how a cowboy shooter could be dressed up any more than it is, but because it's so simple mechanically, it leaves me wanting more front the gameplay loop.
If the expectation is that the atmosphere and story serve as a backstop to simple gameplay, I guess I'd again rather just watch Deadwood again.
Thanks for the perspective, though.
I am no psych, but I can say that with my own personal experiences, I felt a similar dissatisfaction and over time I drastically reduced my video game consumption.
For me, it was a new job that had drastically swinging hours. Could be done at 8 hours, could be done as late as 12. The less free time meant I started prioritizing activities where I didn't just "turn my brain off," like I would with video games, so I picked up different hobbies. It felt like I was missing out when I turned my brain off, the time was precious again, hence the guilt.
It also heavily suspect that the job fills a lot of the needs I was getting through games, too: lots of micromanaging in a vehicle, a lot of driving around and exploring new places and nooks and crannies, lots of views of the city one would normally not get to see, physical exercise, etc.
Lastly, it's been 20 years with me and games. While innovations still occur, they're noticably fewer and farther in between, and the recurring cycles and patterns are obvious to me now. I haven't "seen it all," but I've seen enough to know that it was merely time for me to move on to something different, and there's no shame in that at all.
Well, again I'm not a psych, but...
....if that fear is quite a permeating one, to the point you find it inhibiting the enjoyment of any video game, there's no shame in going cold turkey to pursue something more fulfilling in it's stead. I don't know what would be more fulfilling for you, but for me I found that through literature.
While I don't sense anything "identity crisis" in what you've said in these posts, it may also be worthwhile to look into "hyperconsumerism" and it's prevalence within "nerd culture," especially the parts about how it ties identity to the brands/things one consumes.
Insidiously, the "features" of nerd culture also work to make quitting the consumption of the "nerd stuff" more difficult, as quitting consumption is now akin to rejecting ones identity. (Ex: "I'm a gamer, so I must game, and stay up to 2am gaming, as that's what true gamers do. With enough time, any suggestions to change this routine becomes a social heresy, like suggesting a teetotaler to drink.")
This may not be a component at all for you, but it may still be worth looking into, for awareness' sake. That may explain the seeming reluctance I think I may be detecting, but again I am no psych.
For me, the fulfillment I derive is simply because literature is relatively unexplored ground, and that's how I'm able to "reach for the book instead of the controller."
It does tie back to part of what I was chasing with video games, too. I guess at some point earlier on in my video gaming "career" (for lack of a better term) I conflated the "all-engrossing" nature of video games as "good storytelling," and as a result made the connection that books and movies can't do this, so video games must be better than both.
YouTube personalities also likely helped to extend the lifespan of that fallacy, never explicitly stating but heavily inferring through this tone of 'advocacy' for a fledgling medium, as if they truly believed video games could usurp movies and books. If they believed it, it must be true.
The years go by, the patterns emerge and other fallacies creep in to support my initial fallacy, (great world-building does not make for a great story, but I didn't really know any better at the time) and I see those very same games fall victim to enshittification, the storytelling suffered, and I begin to wonder how these companies and studios couldn't seemingly care about what's supposed to be (in my eyes) the works of modern Homer.
Wait, how I can I be so sure to compare this to something like foundational texts? Even I know that's a hell of a claim.
.....have I even read Homer?....
......and from there, I became more open to the idea of reading driven by pleasure. The more books I read, the more I learned about storytelling in general, the less games I played. Now I know that video games can be good at telling different kinds of stories, I realize now that by mostly excluding books I've been doing myself a disservice. Sure, a game like Antichamber is truly amazing, and can probably serve as a method to describe Borges' experiences within The Aleph, but only Borges' writing within the story The Aleph can serve to provide all the before/after context and give those experiences about said Aleph any meaning.
So, I guess the origins of my problems are vastly different from what you have going on, so I'm not going to have a clear answer. I barely had exposure to reading earlier on in my life, (the accelerated reading program in elementary and middle schools served to produce nothing but ire for me toward reading, probably pushing me further to games as well) but nothing like your experiences. I am no psych, but with your background to books being academic in nature, could it be possible you're seeing burnout with all the academic 'higher thinking' topics? Brains need true downtime too, there's no shame in picking up something 'lower thinking.' If it has to be a book, maybe pick up someone like Wodehouse, or even something campy like RL Stine?
Maybe tie another hobby into the book reading? The Hobbit hits different after a 2 hour hike.
You mention in your comment “…never explicitly stating but heavily inferring through this tone of 'advocacy' for a fledgling medium, as if they truly believed video games could usurp movies and books. If they believed it, it must be true”.
Is there a reason why you think video games can’t have better stories than those from a book or a movie? Granted I’m not a person who is really into movies, and although I do enjoy reading it’s definitely not something I do often, so maybe my opinion is skewed because I haven’t read that many books that would be considered to be high quality storytelling, but I’ve played a few games (Nier Automata, Disco Elysium, The House in Fata Morgana, and more recently Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 to name a few) that genuinely have what I would consider to be fantastic storytelling. I’m also curious as to what genre of video games you were into before you stopped playing, because personally in my opinion RPGs have the best stories so that’s what I spend most of my time playing.
There's a saying that gets attributed to a bunch of people apparently (tried to look it up, and has been mentioned):
I figure you're fine if you do the following:
This could be taking an edible and zoning out for six hours on a random Saturday, playing five hours of your favorite RPG on Tuesday evening, as long as you aren't hurting yourself or others in the process and meet your individual needs.
There are many things others do of little to no practical benefit while deriding people playing video games: Reading fiction, watching TV, going for walks around the neighborhood, etc, that are done to make one feel better. As long as it makes you happy and you aren't addicted to it (like those darn neighborhood walkers), you're doing fine.
Yes, but you're far from the only one. There's this weird, international cultural vibe that you have to always be hustling, working, being productive, optimizing productivity, all that. It permeates all walks of life. This ignores a need for the individual's personal need for self-fulfillment, which could be derived from imaginary challenges proposed by artificial problems and avatars, riding a bicycle, reading a book, etc.
If it's no other consolation, videogames are neurologically more healthy than watching TV/videos/short form social media, which is a "pastime" many people spend hours doing that often requires minimal active thought to pursue. Not to deride people who enjoy TV, but if you're going to be sitting in front of a screen, it's another form of entertainment and, if it fulfills you, it fulfills you.
This is one of those things that I've wrestled with myself. It may be a bit of a rationalization, but I view it somewhat in terms of those studies that show diminishing returns in productivity somewhere past 40h/wk of work and where the additional hours spent eventually start to become net-negative.
Yes, I probably could spend my gaming time doing something more productive on work stuff or on one of my personal projects. But at some point, those "productive hours" would start to be lower quality due to fatigue and possibly burnout.
I do sometimes think about how I probably have some X hrs of my life remaining and that I should try to maximize what I accomplish in them; but I also try to recognize that maximizing the hours spent trying to be "productive" is not the same thing! Mistaking them for each other is a cognitive bias.
And incidentally, I've noticed that if I try to code or do work stuff right up until the moment I go to bed, my brain will just keep spinning on the problems, keeping me awake and impacting my sleep. A bit of light gaming (or some other form of recreation) as a buffer before bed helps tremendously.
So some time ago I decided to give myself permission to take some gaming downtime as a form of self-protection. (That said, I do try to make sure to reserve it for after the kids are asleep and when my spouse is occupied by other hobbies; never when anyone needs me for something.)
be grateful that you still enjoy them. maybe the grass is always greener, but i used to be a huge gamer, but now i have anhedonia and can't enjoy them for more than 10-15 minutes about once a week or so
i can only enjoy music now
What has helped me immensely is to create a dedicated 'gaming window' during the day. For me, it's in the evening, before heading over to sleep. At some point I noticed my sleep quality worsened significantly if I did anything that would excite my mind before bedtime so now there's a window when the day is basically over for me and I use that 'gaming window' to relax and wind down. I also noticed long-term if I don't have this time of deep relaxation I burn out. So intentionally setting that window and understanding that this is needed for your mental health is key. The evening works great because it's the end of the day so it's easier for your mind to let go of the idea that you need to do something more.
Also, since you have this window don't play during the day. Make it a special time.
Secondly, I have found that even if you do set a window, there's another problem that arises. The problem of choosing what to do and sticking with that decision. I don't limit myself only to 1 game within that window. I also like to read, occasionally watch a series and play different games. I find this helps greatly with keeping things fresh and not getting attached to one activity. So I have a system of "flipping" what I will do within that days window and some extra rules like if I do the same activity two days in a row, It's not even considered on the third day. This system allows me to commit to one undertaking and ignore the mental wobble that you get of "maybe i should do something else?".
These two things have completely transformed my gaming experience. But here's the key: they work because they help quiet your mind and allow you to fully commit. The real foundation underneath both of these techniques is learning how to deeply immerse yourself in an activity. The time windows and rotation system are just tools, helpers that make that deeper engagement possible. Without it, your activity has no meaning to it, it's pointless and there is some dissatisfaction in it. Now there's a lot of various aspects that go into this, but the crux of it is turning your activity into a meditative practice.
Gaming can be a wonderful way to practice for that. Actually, anything can be. And if you learn the art, then the whole endeavor transforms into something beautiful. Then there is no problem.
I largely no longer have this problem. If you do what needs to be done during the day, don't get attached to one activity, and turn it into a learning experience - something beautiful, not something outside of your life that you do so you can get back to doing "real, productive stuff," but as part of your life - there's no problem. I genuinely enjoy gaming now.
Were you listening to a book by Shunryu Suzuki ? Perhaps his 'Zen mind, beginners mind' ? I have been reading his talks for a long time so naturally something of him must have rubbed off on me.
But yeah, good spot on the Zen thing. It teaches you to go beyond your conditioned mind deeply into what IS right now. A good story that I recently read from a book, i think it speaks to your situation:
The monk isn't thinking about comfort or a "better" time to do his job. He's not resisting the heat or wishing he was in the shade. His reality, in that moment, is drying mushrooms. That's it. His mind isn't divided between what he's doing and what he'd rather be doing. He is fully present with his task.
Dogens mind is in the future, in the shade, calculating just like yours, thinking about how to make things more ideal, productive.
So, the whole point is to stop mentally running away. If you're washing dishes, just wash the dishes. If you're drying mushrooms in the sun, just dry the mushrooms in the sun. That, in itself, is the entire practice.
Once you do your whole guilt problem just fades away, things become finally clear. At some point you will look back and think "boy was this a dumb 'problem' that I had".
Exactly!
I haven't read Becoming Yourself yet. Mentally putting it to my "to-read" list. I did go through both Zen Mind Beginners Mind, and more recently, Not Always So. I enjoyed the latter way more even though the former is more well known. The talks in Zen Mind Beginners Mind feel deeper in a sense, but it's a bit harder to wrap your mind around.
Currently reading Crooked Cucumber and Branching Streams Flow in the Darkness. Loving both a lot !