36 votes

What wiring decisions do you wish you made when building a house?

I’m building a house and will have ample opportunity to walk with the builder to specify outlets, cat 6, and coax runs and locations. What sorts of little things do you wish you had done in your house or would be useful?

I plan to run cat 6 from mostly every room (some in multiple locations) to the office where my servers will be. I will also be running a few runs of cat 6 out to the shop for future connectivity out there. Anything else that might be useful?

58 comments

  1. [8]
    FairWinds
    Link
    Having done something like this before myself, I would run all my Ethernet cables to a closet or crawl space or similar. And then make sure there’s an outlet right there as well for plugging in a...

    Having done something like this before myself, I would run all my Ethernet cables to a closet or crawl space or similar. And then make sure there’s an outlet right there as well for plugging in a router (at least). This winds up being way more flexible as rooms that start out as offices sometimes turn into other uses and having to keep a server running in your new kids room/laundry room/exercise room/whatever only because the wires end there is kind of annoying.

    I’d also think about where you want the cable and (if you’re lucky) fiber from the street coming into the house. Having those also enter and surreptitiously wind up at the same spot as above keeps them out of sight and is super useful

    31 votes
    1. mars
      Link Parent
      The previous homeowner of my place did this and OMG it's amazing to have a utility closet with water heater, furnace, and coax+ethernet all in one place. They also ran ethernet behind the walls so...

      The previous homeowner of my place did this and OMG it's amazing to have a utility closet with water heater, furnace, and coax+ethernet all in one place. They also ran ethernet behind the walls so that both levels have direct connections for wireless access points that can then run into a router sitting in that closest alongside the cable modem. I used Powerline adapters in my previous place to do something similar but there's no comparison in the low levels of latency running across my home network now.

      9 votes
    2. imperator
      Link Parent
      In addition, conduit to attic (and basement if you have one) for perform future requirements.

      In addition, conduit to attic (and basement if you have one) for perform future requirements.

      7 votes
    3. TwoAbove
      Link Parent
      And also label the outlets on both sides so that you know which cables connect where.

      And also label the outlets on both sides so that you know which cables connect where.

      6 votes
    4. asdfjackal
      Link Parent
      When we bought our house the first thing we did was contract a local company that specializes in specifically networking runs to get cat6 through our whole house and wire our personal modem/router...

      When we bought our house the first thing we did was contract a local company that specializes in specifically networking runs to get cat6 through our whole house and wire our personal modem/router into an access panel in a hallway closet. Never been happier.

      1 vote
    5. [3]
      JXM
      Link Parent
      I ended up running some Ethernet cables to every room in my house earlier this year. It’s so nice to just have wired connectivity in every room. Probably cost me less than $250 for everything to...

      I ended up running some Ethernet cables to every room in my house earlier this year. It’s so nice to just have wired connectivity in every room.

      Probably cost me less than $250 for everything to do it and took maybe 5 hours total.

      Easily the best bang for the buck tech upgrade I’ve done in a long time.

      And like @TwoAbove says, make sure you label your cables on both ends!

      1. [2]
        manosinistra
        Link Parent
        Can I ask how you did this? We added cables into the walls when we were doing some renos, but we had to open up the walls anyways. How did you do it for $250?? Also, +1 label cables. Nothing worse...

        Can I ask how you did this? We added cables into the walls when we were doing some renos, but we had to open up the walls anyways. How did you do it for $250??

        Also, +1 label cables. Nothing worse than having multiple, identical cables all at the switch and no knowing which one services where.

        1. JXM
          Link Parent
          I just went into the attic and dropped the cables down into the walls. I had to drill a few small holes to feed the cables through but I just had someone tap on the ceilings until I found the...

          I just went into the attic and dropped the cables down into the walls.

          I had to drill a few small holes to feed the cables through but I just had someone tap on the ceilings until I found the right place to drill.

          Then I just drilled some holes in the wall in each room to add a face plate on the wall with an Ethernet keystone.

          The cable itself was the most expensive part. But you can get 1,000 feet of Cat 6 10gb cable for under $200.

          Obviously you have to wire the ends up but that isn’t too hard to do if you have an ethernet cable crimper. It’s just matching colors. I already had one so I didn’t count that.

          It sounds easy, and it is, but it just takes an investment of time and sweat.

          1 vote
  2. [4]
    interrobang
    Link
    Don't forget cat6 to the doorbell! You can power PoE doorbells, or if you don't use it for a camera doorbell you can just run DC over the line.

    Don't forget cat6 to the doorbell! You can power PoE doorbells, or if you don't use it for a camera doorbell you can just run DC over the line.

    18 votes
    1. l_one
      Link Parent
      And to anywhere you might want a security camera if you get a system later.

      And to anywhere you might want a security camera if you get a system later.

      5 votes
    2. [2]
      bln
      Link Parent
      Isn’t there a security risk to run an Ethernet cable outside? One could easily get access to your network from there. Or you’d put it on a separate network maybe?

      Isn’t there a security risk to run an Ethernet cable outside? One could easily get access to your network from there.

      Or you’d put it on a separate network maybe?

      1. JXM
        Link Parent
        It’s not like it’s exposed and visible. They’d have to know it’s a PoE doorbell and that there was an Ethernet cable back there. Then they’d have to pull off the doorbell to access the cable and...

        It’s not like it’s exposed and visible. They’d have to know it’s a PoE doorbell and that there was an Ethernet cable back there.

        Then they’d have to pull off the doorbell to access the cable and at that point, I think you’ve got bigger things to worry about.

        But if you were extra security conscious, you could put that port/device on its own VLAN or make it so only a device with an approved MAC address could connect to that port.

        3 votes
  3. [7]
    Akir
    Link
    I've never built a house, but here's my basic wants in order of preference: Separate circuits and breakers for every room A heat pump (AC/Heater combo) Weatherproof outlets in the front and...

    I've never built a house, but here's my basic wants in order of preference:

    • Separate circuits and breakers for every room

    • A heat pump (AC/Heater combo)

    • Weatherproof outlets in the front and backyard

    • 240V outlet in the garage for an EV. Possibly two. Alternatively a permanently-wired EVSE.

    • A good, high quality WiFi AP and router that is either hidden in a wall or on the ceiling

    • Ethernet everywhere, from a central location.

    • Ethernet everywhere, from a dedicated server closet

    • Using thicker wires than necessary to make things easier to upgrade later if needed

    • A main breaker box capable of using more power than I need now, for future-proofing

    • A smart breaker box

    • A 240V subpanel in the backyard to power a hot tub

    15 votes
    1. [4]
      Protected
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I'm going to reply here because I also support all your ideas. If OP is in Europe he might already have 240v everywhere, depending. I'd add: Multiple HVAC points, which may require plumbing for...

      I'm going to reply here because I also support all your ideas.

      If OP is in Europe he might already have 240v everywhere, depending.

      I'd add: Multiple HVAC points, which may require plumbing for coolant and sewage in addition to wiring conduits, rather than just one (depends on the size of the house).

      Making sure there is at least one power outlet in every useful contiguous wall section. For example, if there's a wall section between two doors (including corners) with no power outlets, it becomes annoying or ugly (due to exposed wires or tripping hazards) to plug anything that's placed against that wall.

      Heavy duty dedicated breaker with a dedicated circuit for an induction cooktop in the kitchen (don't actually need to want the cooktop right away).

      Placeholder conduits for wiring between rooms that may require non-ethernet connections in the future. For example, I have USB and HDMI between my office/router/computer location and my VR playspace.

      EDIT: Thought of one more thing, two or more differential circuit breakers to ensure if one of them is tripping there's still reliable power in the house and no spikes on sensitive equipment. Ideally grouping all the large appliances, HVAC and maybe outdoor or garage stuff into their own differential breaker(s).

      7 votes
      1. [3]
        Akir
        Link Parent
        Oh yeah, pretty much everything you said here is stuff I left implied, but is certainly worth saying. For that last one, though, I'd suggest just adding more CAT6E cables since you can run pretty...

        Oh yeah, pretty much everything you said here is stuff I left implied, but is certainly worth saying.

        For that last one, though, I'd suggest just adding more CAT6E cables since you can run pretty much any digital signal through them. HDbaseT for instance is basically HDMI over Ethernet cables, and at least the last time I checked you could actually get away with just wiring regular HDMI signals through them, but I think the newer standards made that more tricky. Just make sure when you're finishing up use a keystone plate so you will be able to change out the plugs on them to different types.

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          Protected
          Link Parent
          That's good to know! I do have an ethernet plate on the same spot but I found out (later) that my electrician was unfortunately not very good at his job, and that possibility was never mentioned -...

          That's good to know! I do have an ethernet plate on the same spot but I found out (later) that my electrician was unfortunately not very good at his job, and that possibility was never mentioned - the wiring wasn't even properly installed (my brother fixed it for me).

          If I wasn't scammed, the cables should be (just) cat6...

          2 votes
          1. Akir
            Link Parent
            Yeah, some electricians are only good at mains stuff... if at all. That being said, a cable is just a cable (usually), so as long as you get them to run the cable itself the final wiring for...

            Yeah, some electricians are only good at mains stuff... if at all. That being said, a cable is just a cable (usually), so as long as you get them to run the cable itself the final wiring for digital stuff is fairly easy to do yourself. YMMV based on your skillset.

            That being said, if you're running fiber I'd look into how to test if it's working and do so before they leave. You'll probably be fine, but fiber can snap.

            1 vote
    2. [2]
      vord
      Link Parent
      Also, running thicker wire for heavy loads saves electricity. Line loss is no joke. Here's a handy little table.

      Using thicker wires than necessary to make things easier to upgrade later if needed

      Also, running thicker wire for heavy loads saves electricity. Line loss is no joke. Here's a handy little table.

      1 vote
      1. Jdtunn
        Link Parent
        As an electrician, I would not recommend going any larger than a #12 for any general purpose outlet circuit. It makes wiring receptacles a major pain, and doesn't really have that much benefit...

        As an electrician, I would not recommend going any larger than a #12 for any general purpose outlet circuit. It makes wiring receptacles a major pain, and doesn't really have that much benefit comparing to the cost difference. For reference, 14/2 Romex costs ~$0.40/ft, 12/2 Romex costs ~$0.50/ft, but 10/2 Romex is ~$2.30/ft. Lighting, I would still recommend #14 cause you're not likely to pull that much current, especially with LEDs becoming the defacto standard. Also, I prefer to have my lighting on a separate circuit. If you go with a 20a circuit, you can easily do an entire floor of a house on the one lighting circuit and still have headroom. You also get the benefit of not having the lights go out when you trip a circuit cause you plugged something faulty in.

        That said, for appliances? Absolutely. Save the hassle in the future and size your wired up at least 1 size larger. Maybe sometime in the future you'll want an inductive cooktop, now you don't need to go through the process of bringing a new, larger wire.

        4 votes
  4. [2]
    aphoenix
    (edited )
    Link
    I wish I had an easy way to rewire just about everything in our last house, we rewired the whole place, but left in a way to fish wires from one end to the other should we need to rewire anything....

    I wish I had an easy way to rewire just about everything in our last house, we rewired the whole place, but left in a way to fish wires from one end to the other should we need to rewire anything. We did so twice; the new house doesn't have anything like that.

    I wish that it was easy (easier, I guess it's not super hard) to hide wires for things like tvs and other devices. I would put channels or nooks in various places for that.

    I wish I had wired access points in reasonable locations around the house.

    I luckily have and am thankful for sufficient outlets in each bedroom; our last house was definitely lacking in that regard.

    I wish there was a better configuration of outlets in the garage, which doesn't seem very well thought out.

    We have exterior outlets that have interior switches, which is great. You can turn the Christmas lights or the tiki lights on and off without unplugging them.

    8 votes
    1. dredmorbius
      Link Parent
      Wiring conduit is seriously underappreciated. Run what you like through it initially. When that's no longer sufficient / spec, pull something else. With relative ease. (Mind building and fire...

      Wiring conduit is seriously underappreciated.

      Run what you like through it initially.

      When that's no longer sufficient / spec, pull something else. With relative ease.

      (Mind building and fire codes, especially for wall / floor penetrations.)

      3 votes
  5. [2]
    Bipolar
    Link
    If I could afford it, I would built it to this standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house With a very good air filtration system, that forest fire from Canada was awful. but since...

    If I could afford it, I would built it to this standard.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house

    With a very good air filtration system, that forest fire from Canada was awful. but since building a house in NYC is a pipe dream. I would just make sure every room had enough outlets and that those have a neutral wire for automation.

    oh and Bidet, the work around solution are with the toilet seats are good but built in Bidets are so much better.

    7 votes
    1. zoroa
      Link Parent
      Back in middle school, either a parent of a student or some expert my school brought in gave a talk about how they're an architect that builds to this standard. It was my first exposure to...

      If I could afford it, I would built it to this standard.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house

      Back in middle school, either a parent of a student or some expert my school brought in gave a talk about how they're an architect that builds to this standard.

      It was my first exposure to building standards that are more common outside the US, and has been a pipe dream in the event I ever built a home.

      First time I'd ever heard of triple-paned windows

      6 votes
  6. [2]
    skybrian
    Link
    Having conduit that you can use to run more wires seems like a good idea, in case something new comes along.

    Having conduit that you can use to run more wires seems like a good idea, in case something new comes along.

    6 votes
    1. SupraMario
      Link Parent
      This is %100 good for cat6e and power, but don't run them together, power and cat6 should always be separate.

      This is %100 good for cat6e and power, but don't run them together, power and cat6 should always be separate.

      4 votes
  7. [4]
    disk
    (edited )
    Link
    Generally, from an electrician standpoint, I would always: Leave a bit of extra wire length in outlets to make things easier during upgrades/maintenance Never occupy more than 50% of the volume of...

    Generally, from an electrician standpoint, I would always:

    • Leave a bit of extra wire length in outlets to make things easier during upgrades/maintenance
    • Never occupy more than 50% of the volume of a given conduit (for temperature/maintenance reasons)
    • Go overspec with wire gauges for future proofing/better efficiency if you can
    • Avoid joints, but if you absolutely need to, make sure they are accessible from a junction box/outlet and clearly visible (don't match the wire's colour with heat shrink/electrical tape, Wago connectors are great), and whenever possible, follow proper standards (such as NASA's) to ensure strong connections
    • PoE whenever possible, relevant and cost efficient
    • Properly dimension circuits, have different circuits for lighting/different rooms/high power equipment (such as electric showers, hobs, large refrigerators)
    • If you don't live in the UK or any country that requires it, consider using "shaver sockets" (receptacles with an isolator transformer) in bathrooms (that do not have GFCI/RCD already, and where it wouldn't be reasonable to add one. However, do prefer current fault protection devices whenever possible).
    • Waterproof sockets outside, always
    • Label wires clearly (especially comms/ethernet) and have a handy table in your breaker box/near your server closet (or similar location) describing what's what
    • Do not cheap out on RCD/GFCI, surge protectors and other personal/property safety equipment in your breaker box
    • Consider outlets for floor lighting as well (such as floor lamps, they are quite underrated in my opinion), and carefully consider your placement of bulb receptacles in rooms, ensure switches are accessible from areas of interest (near beds, entrances, etc.)
    3 votes
    1. [2]
      SirNut
      Link Parent
      I live in the US and was not familiar with this style plug. I have searched it up, but do not quite understand what its purpose is. What value do shaver sockets add to new houses, or houses being...

      shaver sockets

      I live in the US and was not familiar with this style plug. I have searched it up, but do not quite understand what its purpose is.

      What value do shaver sockets add to new houses, or houses being renovated?

      1. disk
        Link Parent
        They are an added layer of safety, by performing electrical isolation and limiting current to a fraction of what a regular outlet can provide. I forgot to add that if you already have GFCI/RCD...

        They are an added layer of safety, by performing electrical isolation and limiting current to a fraction of what a regular outlet can provide. I forgot to add that if you already have GFCI/RCD installations in place or can add one easily (I don't know what building codes are in place in the US), they are redundant and you can go with a regular outlet regardless. Besides, not all plugs fit, so thanks for bringing this up, I've updated the comment!

    2. MrAlex
      Link Parent
      This is what I came here to add. Having lived in an old house with poorly thought out electrical, and apartments where they cheaper out on wiring, this has been something I have noticed. Too often...

      Consider outlets for floor lighting as well (such as floor lamps, they are quite underrated in my opinion), and carefully consider your placement of bulb receptacles in rooms, ensure switches are accessible from areas of interest (near beds, entrances, etc.)

      This is what I came here to add. Having lived in an old house with poorly thought out electrical, and apartments where they cheaper out on wiring, this has been something I have noticed. Too often the switched outlet is right next to the switch which either makes the switch useless, or severely limits the types of devices that make sense to be plugged into that outlet.

      If I were to rewire my living space, I would have each switch next to the door have 2 switches, one for an overhead light if appropriate, and a switched outlet across the room. Or, in the case of rooms that have multiple entryways, a switch at both ends that controls the overhead light. You may have to shed the expectation for those switches to be in "on" or "off" positions because that will not be possible with two for the same light, but it's nice.

  8. [2]
    devilized
    Link
    When we built our house, I ran lots of CAT6 to a central room with it's own circuit. We ran it to pretty much every room (multiple in rooms where we think we needed it), plus several exterior...

    When we built our house, I ran lots of CAT6 to a central room with it's own circuit. We ran it to pretty much every room (multiple in rooms where we think we needed it), plus several exterior locations for cameras and a couple of central ceiling locations for wifi access points. Our exterior cabling (phone and cable) went to the same room. I have a wall mounted server rack that hosts the switch, UPS, and modem, firewall, home automation hubs, alarm controller and a computer for the network controller/NVR. So far, we haven't outgrown that setup, but it's time to replace our WIFI access points to Wifi6 once we're able to get fiber.

    We have one room that we set up as a media room. Wired surround sound, and a projector mount with power and HDMI from ceiling to the closet. The closet also has CAT6. In other rooms where we have TVs, we set up elevated receptacles with CAT6 and HDMI to another part of the room. Anywhere we did HDMI, we used conduit. HDMI standards change often enough that we've already had to pull new HDMI cable through the runs. I also had one conduit run from the first floor to the second for something in the future l, but haven't used it yet.

    I added lights in other non-standard locations, like a storage closet under the stairs and our pantry. Did switched cabinet lighting. Ceiling fan wiring with 4-wire romex in every room whether we put a fan there or not, including front and back porches. Extra outlets in the garage each on dedicated circuits for power tools, freezer and block heater for my truck for winter. Also had at least one outlet run to every closet.

    Also ran speaker wiring in the kitchen which goes to the pantry, which has an outlet for a small amp (and a vacuum sealer we run in there). We use a Chromecast Audio directly into the amp to play music.

    I think that covers all of the special wiring. I spent a lot of time designing it and thinking of every single thing I could possibly want in the future and I haven't had anything come up that wasn't accommodated by our wiring.

    2 votes
    1. haerik
      Link Parent
      I’m going to second the “outlet to every closet” thing. My house doesn’t have it, but it’s high on my list for an upgrade or future house. So much stuff has batteries now and I’d much rather be...

      I’m going to second the “outlet to every closet” thing. My house doesn’t have it, but it’s high on my list for an upgrade or future house.

      So much stuff has batteries now and I’d much rather be charging it in a closet than on the floor or a counter somewhere.

      1 vote
  9. Perhaps
    Link
    Cat 6 to soffits or anywhere else you think you might want a camera

    Cat 6 to soffits or anywhere else you think you might want a camera

  10. [2]
    npawelek
    Link
    I’ve always wanted a low voltage DC setup for home automation. Additional wiring for wall tablets and automatic blinds (batteries are expensive and have to be changed). Would also be good to hard...

    I’ve always wanted a low voltage DC setup for home automation. Additional wiring for wall tablets and automatic blinds (batteries are expensive and have to be changed). Would also be good to hard wire security-related contact sensors for windows and doors, plus some motion sensors.

    PoE is great in some cases like for wall tablets, but can get expensive when you need lots of ports.

    1. m-p-3
      Link Parent
      Worst case if you run short is to deploy a PoE injector at the patch panel level. If you only have one or two of them it's not too bad.

      Worst case if you run short is to deploy a PoE injector at the patch panel level. If you only have one or two of them it's not too bad.

  11. Hidegger
    (edited )
    Link
    You do not need to isolate every single room with individual breakers, You should have them grouped properly though like having 2 bed rooms and hall outlets together. And having home offices...

    You do not need to isolate every single room with individual breakers, You should have them grouped properly though like having 2 bed rooms and hall outlets together. And having home offices either have it's own circuit or a shared circuit and 1 dedicated for equipment in there. Be cost effective where you can and splurge where you might actually need to future proof higher power. In the states I generally recommend running all the general outlet circuits in 12 gauge on 20 amp and all general lighting in 14 gauge on 15 amp. You should not need to up size the wire for volt drop concerns within the house unless you are building a mansion and putting the panels on the farthest side of the house. There are applicable codes for electricians to follow, but for the most part volt drop issues generally are figured if you are running wire from your house to the lake or external building or outside lighting/outlets where the run is over 100 ft.

    If you are in the states you should definitely get an EV outlet as there is a "Build back better" government plan subsidizing them in homes that can basically pay for it to be done for free. This includes a push for some appliances to be electric instead of gas. You might want to look it up and see what all can apply to you and plan accordingly.

    Where ever you place a panel you should have a way to easily run a few more circuits out of it, so a conduit from the panel to attic or crawl space. If you don't have those kinds of access nearby consider having a sub panel in a location that does allow that kind of access. And you should make sure the panel is going to have extra spaces.

    Edit: Under cabinet lighting in your kitchen. It's great. Unless you have an Island with good lighting that you are doing all of your prep work on you should make sure any prep area gets good lighting.

  12. [2]
    Lonan
    Link
    I've renovated 2 apartments now (paid to have "pros" do it, and planned the layout), and in both messed up light switches in annoying ways. First one we didn't put a switch to the corridor light...

    I've renovated 2 apartments now (paid to have "pros" do it, and planned the layout), and in both messed up light switches in annoying ways.

    First one we didn't put a switch to the corridor light outside one middle bedroom, so going out in the dark you have to fumble around to get to a switch that's quite far away. We didn't realise until my family moved in and had been living there for a while.

    Second one, a large-ish entrance room was going to be a bedroom originally so the switch to turn off the light is not right by the exit door to the exterior corridor, because that door was not going to be used (joined 2 apartments so the result has 2 entrances). However, we liked it more and still use it as an entrance/exit so you have to turn the light off and cross the darkened room to exit. This time I got the corridor light switches in the right places at least.

    1. Hidegger
      Link Parent
      You can buy Casetta wireless switches, install one where the existing switch is and install as many remotes around the rooms where desired. They can be fastened to the wall with some zip-it sheet...

      You can buy Casetta wireless switches, install one where the existing switch is and install as many remotes around the rooms where desired. They can be fastened to the wall with some zip-it sheet rock anchors and can look the same as normal switching without needing to install a box or anything behind it. There are options for dimming on them as well.
      I believe they can be bluetooth controlled as well.

      1 vote
  13. [5]
    Kole
    Link
    If you cook a lot, or sometimes have guests over for dinners, consider an extra outlet or two in your kitchen. My last place had a peninsula-style counter, with an outlet on the end. Its location...

    If you cook a lot, or sometimes have guests over for dinners, consider an extra outlet or two in your kitchen.

    My last place had a peninsula-style counter, with an outlet on the end. Its location looked like it would be inconvenient, but it ended up being the most used outlet in the area. It was great to use handheld kitchen appliances without having to cram next to the sink or range or unplug other appliances. It was super handy for hand mixers, my blender that didn't live on the counter, and even the vacuum for general cleaning.

    1. [4]
      Hidegger
      Link Parent
      Fixed Island and peninsula outlets used to be required by code. They have just removed that requirement due to the number of accidents from kids, elderly and disabled that come through and catch...

      Fixed Island and peninsula outlets used to be required by code. They have just removed that requirement due to the number of accidents from kids, elderly and disabled that come through and catch the cords and pull the appliances down on themselves. If these aren't problem for you then by all means put it in. If you need an alternative, look into countertop pop-up outlets.

      1. [3]
        typo
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        NEC 2020 requires 1 duplex outlet for the first 9sf of island counter space, then 1 additional for every 18sf after that, located no more than 12” below the counter with no more than a 6”...

        NEC 2020 requires 1 duplex outlet for the first 9sf of island counter space, then 1 additional for every 18sf after that, located no more than 12” below the counter with no more than a 6” overhang.

        My electrical engineer just got busted on this on a multi family project I’m doing construction administration on.

        EDIT: As correctly pointed out by user Hidegger below, this was specifically in reference to NEC 2020 which my municipality had adopted.

        1. [2]
          Hidegger
          Link Parent
          This is 2020 NEC yes. Where I live the 2023 NEC gets adopted on July 1 and the new requirement is...

          This is 2020 NEC yes. Where I live the 2023 NEC gets adopted on July 1 and the new requirement is
          https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/Publications-and-media/Blogs-Landing-Page/NFPA-Today/Blog-Posts/2023/01/18/Kitchen-Island-and-Peninsula-Receptacle-Outlets-and-the-NEC
          "2023 NEC Requirements

          Section 210.52(C)(2) saw extensive revisions between the 2020 and 2023 NEC. All of the requirements around receptacle outlets being installed based on the square footage of the countertop and work surface of islands and peninsulas were removed. Perhaps more significant, the requirement for any receptacle to be installed within islands and peninsulas was removed. You read that right: No receptacle outlet is required to be installed within islands or peninsulas based on the 2023 NEC—with a caveat. The revisions to 210.52(C)(2) in the 2023 NEC essentially changed island and peninsula receptacles to have two requirements (paraphrased):

          1. Receptacle outlets in islands and peninsulas, if installed, must be done in accordance with 210.52(C)(3).
            
          2. If a receptacle outlet is not provided for islands and peninsulas, provisions must be provided for the addition of a receptacle outlet in the future.
            
          1 vote
          1. typo
            Link Parent
            Thank you for bringing this to my attention! It doesn't help me in this particular situation, as the changes have already been made with much handwringing and cost to my client... but I can relay...

            Thank you for bringing this to my attention! It doesn't help me in this particular situation, as the changes have already been made with much handwringing and cost to my client... but I can relay this information to my colleagues for future projects since we had already revised the way we designed kitchen islands based on the requirements of NEC 2020. My municipality will be adopting NEC 2023 effective September 1st.

  14. Pavouk106
    Link
    We built our house ourselves. I have olastic conduits in every room and they are basically chained all along the house. Alas, some of them got "tangled" (many twists in short distance), some got...

    We built our house ourselves. I have olastic conduits in every room and they are basically chained all along the house.

    Alas, some of them got "tangled" (many twists in short distance), some got ripped... And wen I wanted to run 7 ethernet cables at one through them, it was HELL!

    I managed to do it. What would I do differently? I would run the freaking cables before we poured in concrete floors and buried all the conduits! The wiring should have been there roght at the time we were building the house and not 10 years after.

  15. Maxxens
    Link
    I would recommend, if financially possible to use smart switches, i.e. a bus system like KNX. This is a European/German standard, unfortunately I have no idea what kind of similar systems are used...

    I would recommend, if financially possible to use smart switches, i.e. a bus system like KNX. This is a European/German standard, unfortunately I have no idea what kind of similar systems are used in the US.
    This kind of setup only works with centralised power wiring, which I would recommend even if you will not use a bus for the simple reason that you can modify the switch layout afterwards.
    Furthermore I would suggest to plan enough power outlets. We have already quite a few but are still some missing, for example at the windowsills for some electric light decorations.
    Concerning the network layout an Ethernet port in each room is nice to have but due to the huge shift to wireless devices I would recommend to invest in a good wifi. Good does not necessary mean fast but high multi-user capabilities. I am really happy with the Unifi products.
    Concerning the different smart systems like doorbell or cameras I would recommend to look for an independent and cloud-free system. These have usually a higher upfront price but you have no monthly fees and the data is in your hand and not somewhere on a server.

  16. [9]
    Bonehead
    Link
    A 40 amp 240 volt circuit to your garage, and a smart panel to balance the load. You'll be thankful you did in about 10 years or less.

    A 40 amp 240 volt circuit to your garage, and a smart panel to balance the load. You'll be thankful you did in about 10 years or less.

    1. [8]
      Hidegger
      Link Parent
      Idk that a smart panel is necessary. A new build is likely going to get a 200A service and possibly another 200A off peak service. All of the off peak will have built in load management and be...

      Idk that a smart panel is necessary. A new build is likely going to get a 200A service and possibly another 200A off peak service. All of the off peak will have built in load management and be running water heater and heating/cooling. Whats left over is Range, Car Charger (can be Off Peak or on a different load management thing), Hot Tubs, Steam Showers, Welder or any other optional thing you would want to install. You would almost never need to be spending the $5k-8k for an extra panel to be managing loads that are already taken care of.
      The practical scenarios for use are, like the video showed, having a 100 amp service that needs the load management to not risk blowing the main, or having solar or battery back-up systems. And if you have a 100A main it's probably better to just upgraded to 200A or get a load management device for the 1 or 2 large appliances. The power company often supplies load management devices and depending on setup and usage they can offer reduced rates for the power used on those devices similar to off peak.
      So, unless you like blowing money to monitor your circuits more closely than you need to, it isn't really worth it.

      1. [7]
        Bonehead
        Link Parent
        Those smart panels start at around $2k, not $5k. While you could just install 200 amp service, you have to consider that the upgrade from the standard 100 amp service could cost as much as just...

        Those smart panels start at around $2k, not $5k.

        While you could just install 200 amp service, you have to consider that the upgrade from the standard 100 amp service could cost as much as just installing the smart panel. Not only that, but there's also the ongoing delivery and maintenance cost for the 200 amp service on your bill. That's if your even able to get 200 amp service, which your local transformers may not be capable of delivering. And all it gets you is the ability to charge your car at the same you cook dinner and dry your clothes.

        If you're ok with your car charging after you cook dinner, a 100 amp service with a smart panel will save you money in the long run.

        1. [6]
          Hidegger
          Link Parent
          What I'm seeing for pricing: Span - $4500 starting quote estimate, they do the planning and install with typical quotes at $5000-$7000. Don't see options for getting just the panel for a local...

          What I'm seeing for pricing:
          Span - $4500 starting quote estimate, they do the planning and install with typical quotes at $5000-$7000. Don't see options for getting just the panel for a local electrician to install.
          Lumin - Starting at $3150, has a whole bunch of added materials that need to be installed onto existing equipment. Looks like it also has an annual fee for the app too. Do not see anything about installation cost or if that is wrapped in to the $3150 cost.
          QO - $3500 for the panel. No install costs, would be local electrician.
          Leviton - [s]Has a cheaper panel[/s] (Panel and cover sold separately, cost is a little higher) and higher price breakers, Only see 200A option available currently. Have to buy a hub for connecting WiFi. This could potentially be only $1000 more than a normal panel figuring for 40 circuits. Do not know if the app is free. This is the most viable but I do not know the availability of the products.

          Have to leave in the middle of typing this out, will comment on the rest later.

          1. [5]
            Bonehead
            Link Parent
            Look...if it's absolutely that important to you that you're able to charge your car while cooking dinner and drying your clothes all at the exact same time, then more power to you, both literally...

            Look...if it's absolutely that important to you that you're able to charge your car while cooking dinner and drying your clothes all at the exact same time, then more power to you, both literally and figuratively. All in saying is that instead of paying continuously for that privilege, maybe it's a good idea to explore ways to reduce your electricity consumption needs.

            1. [4]
              Hidegger
              Link Parent
              A lot of the higher demand car charging already has load management or people get them put on off-peak for reduced rates which will actually save money. Smart panel management doesn't save you...

              A lot of the higher demand car charging already has load management or people get them put on off-peak for reduced rates which will actually save money. Smart panel management doesn't save you money because the power company has nothing to do with it. Your consumption of power is going to be the same and will already be set up to charge in the over-night hours so you don't have to worry about it running when you cook dinner (during peak hours). Power management and load shed devices will do the same thing, the difference is if you get the power company to supply it instead of personally buying a smart panel then there is a chance that you can get reduced rates on power for those devices/appliances.

              You aren't "paying continuously for that privilege". If your car needs 8kW to full charge it doesn't matter the time of day your panel decides to do it, it isn't reducing electricity consumption, it's preventing it from spiking (overloading) at any particular time. Better to just put on off-peak, get a reduced rate and the power company generally supplies the controller for free but charges for the 2nd meter. It's in their best interest to get you on off peak as much as possible. And like I said before almost all new builds upgrade to 200A because almost all power companies have been doing these upgrades for the last 3 decades and have the infrastructure and sometimes incentives to do so.

              The best way to reduce power consumption is to turn things off that you aren't using and you don't need a smart panel to do that. You do need a smart panel if you plan to install a local solar or alternative green energy source with battery back-up.

              1. [3]
                Bonehead
                Link Parent
                I don't know where you live, but where I live there is a separate charge for delivery and maintenance on my bill. This charge increases with the amount of capacity that you have installed, and...

                I don't know where you live, but where I live there is a separate charge for delivery and maintenance on my bill. This charge increases with the amount of capacity that you have installed, and it's charged whether you use electricity or not. If you use a lot of electricity, regardless of time of day, this charge increases even more. So yes, in my area, the amount of capacity to your house absolutely results in an increased monthly charge. That's how you're "paying for the privilege".

                In my area, keeping a 100 amp service but using a smart panel that will turn off certain outlets when other outlets are in use will save you money in the long run. And in my particular neighborhood, I can't upgrade to 200 amp service anyways because there isn't enough capacity. These are all things that people need to be aware of when making these decisions. But the general idea is that keeping your service at the standard 100 amp can go long way to keeping a stable grid. If everyone upgrades to 200 amp, that's more strain on the grid, which requires more maintenance, which means your bill goes up even if you only pay for electricity. But managing your load eliminates the need to upgrade. So while you may be resistant to this idea, this is something we need to consider as a society. This whole issue is much bigger than just you and me...

                1. [2]
                  Hidegger
                  Link Parent
                  Where I live there is no delivery and maintenance fee. It breaks down like this: Facility Charge (Service fee basically) flat rate all customers Meter Charge - Flat rate all customers for the...

                  Where I live there is no delivery and maintenance fee. It breaks down like this:
                  Facility Charge (Service fee basically) flat rate all customers
                  Meter Charge - Flat rate all customers for the first meter, additional rates for more service drops and meters including off peak.
                  Power Consumption - rate for how much energy used. This can be broken up into sections for off peak and reduced rate plans on specific devices.
                  Co-op credit - I'm a member of a Co-op electric company that we can vote the management team and they profit share back to the customers.
                  There is no difference if you have a 50A, 60A, 100A or 200A service since the meter socket is owned and maintained by the home owner. Power company owns everything up to the wire going in the top side of the meter socket. This means they will upgrade to 200A at their cost to the meter, from the meter onward the homeowner has to take care of it.

                  The other power company in this area is similar aside from being privately owned and not profit sharing back. They also install and own the meter pedestals so their meter fee is slightly higher. The pedestals have all been upgraded to 200A+ feeds so doesn't matter what size residential service you tap off of it the service charge is a flat rate for everyone.

                  Both companies will charge for new services to empty lots.
                  Both companies encourage adding off peak, heat pumps rebates, new electric water heater rebates, steffes unit rebates and a plethora of options for load shed/load management devices provided by them. The size of your main overcurrent protection device does not dictate the strain on the grid, it simply protects the wires from burning up in an overload event. Whether you have 100 or 200 amp service you should look into off peak and power company provided load management before buying a smart panel. This is the smarter and cheaper route to take in 99% of scenarios.
                  I'm not disagreeing with you that we shouldn't manage our loads, I'm disagreeing with your method because it is the less cost effective then what power companies will provide.

                  1. Bonehead
                    Link Parent
                    In your specific area only. In my area, there's only one electricity provider, and they charge for the installation, service, delivery, and maintenance on a scale depending on the service you...

                    I'm disagreeing with your method because it is the less cost effective then what power companies will provide.

                    In your specific area only. In my area, there's only one electricity provider, and they charge for the installation, service, delivery, and maintenance on a scale depending on the service you have. And it's still a better idea in the long run to just lower your capacity needs so that you don't overload the system and raise the price for everyone. That's the part you seem to ignore...the part where if everyone does what you suggest, then everyone will end up paying a lot more regardless because delivering double the capacity to everyone means upgrading the entire grid. So what's less cost effective in the long run? Installing a smart panel that may cost a little extra now but doesn't put anymore strain on the grid? Or being cheap now and forcing the power company to upgrade the entire system which they will just pass the costs onto you and everyone else?

                    1 vote
  17. Arimer
    Link
    I would have run ethernet to every room, and multiple points outside so I could self host some networking/security systems. Sounds proof any walls around washer/dryer and bathrooms.

    I would have run ethernet to every room, and multiple points outside so I could self host some networking/security systems.

    Sounds proof any walls around washer/dryer and bathrooms.

  18. LongAndElegant
    Link
    An architect I know put outlets inside each of his window frames so that it would be both clean looking and simple to hook up Xmas lights. It's pretty esoteric, but I thought it was cool.

    An architect I know put outlets inside each of his window frames so that it would be both clean looking and simple to hook up Xmas lights. It's pretty esoteric, but I thought it was cool.

  19. Mrs_shrew
    Link
    Late and such a small comment to give you : think about where you'd plug your vacuum cleaner in, and place your sockets accordingly. It's a right pain in the bum to have a poorly placed socket...

    Late and such a small comment to give you : think about where you'd plug your vacuum cleaner in, and place your sockets accordingly. It's a right pain in the bum to have a poorly placed socket when doing homework.

    Also, consider where your family and house guests would plug in hair dryers and straighteners, near to mirrors and dressing tables. Again it's a pain when you have a short cable and no sock nearby.

  20. mat
    Link
    Why cat6 ethernet, why not cat8? (cat7 is a weird non-quite-standard that you might as well jump right past) 1Gbps sounds like a lot now but FTTP connections are already delivering more than that...

    Why cat6 ethernet, why not cat8? (cat7 is a weird non-quite-standard that you might as well jump right past)

    1Gbps sounds like a lot now but FTTP connections are already delivering more than that today. The last thing you want is for your internal network to be slower than your internet connection! For the sake of a few $currency more now on cat8 cables, you've got far more bandwidth, 40 times the capacity, shielding and much less risk of finding yourself bottlenecked in a decade's time.

    Personally I'd also look into running 12V for the lighting because I'm sick of every lamp having a little DC PSU built into it, but I don't know how easy buying DC LED lamps is.