Basically yes to all your questions except for the overly dramatic part. How accurate do you think the video comes across? VERY ACCURATE. I loved that the women of the office were also involved...
Exemplary
Basically yes to all your questions except for the overly dramatic part.
How accurate do you think the video comes across?
VERY ACCURATE. I loved that the women of the office were also involved and making commentary along the way. Not over dramatic at all. Basically it goes from feeling totally normal one day to like having your insides torn out the next. Not to mention the breast tenderness, pre cram cramping, craving for choc, hormones and then the fun stuff of bleeding - is it going to be light, med, heavy or HELL level or just all of the above... Oh also why the fk do we say it's only 'once a month', when it can be more like 5-10 days of this!!!??!! I remember when I first got mine thinking something was seriously wrong because I kept bleeding after 1 day. Once a month does not mean once a month.... Anyways....
What do you think about men using these TENS machines to simulate period cramps (or labor pains)
When done like this in an educational and entertainment format, hells yes. It helps bring awareness to the shit women have to go through on a regular basis. For me the part they really nailed was the fact they did it for the whole day and gave them assignments etc to do throughout.
do you think it's something more men should actually try, in order to understand better what it's like for women?
Hahaha omg I'm just imagining an office 'team bonding day' where all the men have do this! 😂 Sure I mean that'd be great if that's something they wanna try etc but also, would hope that it wouldn't take doing this to make changes when it comes to women's health etc.
Aware that this is from. 2016, so if there are any recent ones happy to read them, but certainly feel like this sorta sums up the state of things in Women's health (reproductive health specifically)
Not saying that side effects should be tolerated or that contraceptive options for women haven't evolved, but feel it certainly highlights some issues with women being believed when it comes to health etc too
And let's not forget period poops. One day you are constipated as hell no matter how much fibre you've eaten, and the next day you're violently painting the toilet bowl. Which one will it be...
And let's not forget period poops. One day you are constipated as hell no matter how much fibre you've eaten, and the next day you're violently painting the toilet bowl. Which one will it be today? No idea! And sometimes you can feel you bowel movements pushing against your tender uterus so passing gas or stools can be painful as well. Honestly if surgery and the medical consequences weren't so risky, I'd have yeeterus my uterus a looong time ago.
I'll also add impact to sleep. On my heaviest days, so many times I wake up -just in time- to run to the washroom and empty my menstrual cup. I always feel I get a worse sleep on those nights as...
I'll also add impact to sleep. On my heaviest days, so many times I wake up -just in time- to run to the washroom and empty my menstrual cup. I always feel I get a worse sleep on those nights as if part of me is staying conscious enough to monitor how I feel down there all night long. Plus the interruption to sleep to deal with a period sucks as well. And my sleep may also be worse due to avoiding sleeping on my back all night long to reduce a chance of a leak (I've always found pad suck at preventing leaks while sleeping).
I can only speak for myself, but I would have been down to try something like that at my last office job! :P And thanks for sharing your perspective on this. I genuinely appreciate it. :) p.s. You...
Hahaha omg I'm just imagining an office 'team bonding day' where all the men have do this
I can only speak for myself, but I would have been down to try something like that at my last office job! :P
And thanks for sharing your perspective on this. I genuinely appreciate it. :)
p.s. You made a top-level comment instead of replying to my comment with the questions. I still got notified about your comment because I submitted the topic though.
I'll add another less recognised issue - if you have ADHD, hormonal fluctuations can make your symptoms worse. This is unfortunately an area that is sorely lacking in research,, but plenty of...
I'll add another less recognised issue - if you have ADHD, hormonal fluctuations can make your symptoms worse. This is unfortunately an area that is sorely lacking in research,, but plenty of menstruating individuals with ADHD will complain of worsening symptoms during their periods.
Aside from the abdominal pain, there's also: Period migraines. I didn't know this was a thing until I started tracking my migraines and noticed that they tend to happen at the start of, or right...
Aside from the abdominal pain, there's also:
Period migraines. I didn't know this was a thing until I started tracking my migraines and noticed that they tend to happen at the start of, or right before my period.
The fluctuation of energy and appetite levels during my cycle. Just makes it extra challenging to plan for my fitness (both diet and exercise). I tend to binge snack, and exercise poorly, right before my period starts.
The general hassle of planning around my period, like booking a beach trip or travel plans in general. It's not impossible to travel or swim during my period, it's just not fun. I'm lucky that mine is generally predictable (usually within a 3-day error margin); this is probably much worse for those who have a very irregular cycle.
I know the video is a bit low-brow, but I was kinda hoping it would spark some discussion about the issue, which I am interested in reading about as a cisish man. So I guess I will just ask a few...
I know the video is a bit low-brow, but I was kinda hoping it would spark some discussion about the issue, which I am interested in reading about as a cisish man. So I guess I will just ask a few questions directly to hopefully get some conversation going:
How accurate do you think the video comes across? Can normal1 period cramps really be that strong and debilitating? Or are the Try Guys just being a bit overly-dramatic for entertainment purposes?
What do you think about men using these TENS machines to simulate period cramps (or labor pains, which they also did in another video)? It's funny to watch, but do you think it's something more men should actually try, in order to understand better what it's like for women?
1 - The reason I said "normal" period cramps is because my sister has endometriosis, and has had surgery twice now in order to reduce her period pains (which she said helped, but the effect gradually faded, hence the multiple surgeries), so I know they can get really really bad in some cases. She often goes pale as a ghost, and can barely function when her cramps kick in because of how painful they are. But according to the health expert in the video, that level of pain is not normal, and yet that's the level of pain the Try Guys seemed to be experiencing.
It's a difficult topic honestly to even discuss as a cis male. I'm a cis male myself. I however do have Celiac disease, and I have read from multiple women on forums that I frequent, that the...
Exemplary
It's a difficult topic honestly to even discuss as a cis male. I'm a cis male myself. I however do have Celiac disease, and I have read from multiple women on forums that I frequent, that the pain, bloating, cramping, brain fog, frequent diarrhea and constipation that I have felt for most of my life before I was diagnosed, is for some of them, indistinguishable from their menstrual cramps. It goes without saying, but I have no personal basis to make this comparison as a male.
Because of this I feel the need to point out that while a simulator can give us a basis for understanding what women are suffering through, we need to be aware that it's a voluntary device we get to choose to wear. We get to choose to put it on, and we get to choose when to take it off. You don't just wake up with it on in the middle of the night once a month and have to live with it for days. Something like this can hopefully increase empathy that many men lack for the pain and suffering of women, but it also needs to be understood that even if you can handle the pain and it's "not that bad" that we're not really experiencing what a woman is suffering through. How it is interrupting her sleep, her ability to relax, to do routine tasks essential to a human's mental health. We should all strive to express more sympathy, understanding and patience for our fellow humans when they're not up for doing what you want them to do, honestly for whatever reason that may be. Chronic pain and fatigue is often debilitating, be it a week of menstrual cramps, bleeding, etc. Be it an injured muscle or back pain. We all have a tendency to overestimate our suffering and underestimate the suffering of others.
All of this said, my spouse has endometriosis, and the complications that I have often seen her suffer through as a result of that condition (both cyst growth and cyst rupture) has been completely debilitating for her for periods of hours to days. Nothing I have experienced in my life has come close to what I have witnessed her go through. So the variability in menstrual pain appears to be very wide.
I follow the Period Pain is Not Normal TikTok where they do this with men and women, often a couple, and the reactions from the people who have menstrual cramps and those who don't are extremely...
I follow the Period Pain is Not Normal TikTok where they do this with men and women, often a couple, and the reactions from the people who have menstrual cramps and those who don't are extremely varied. Their settings put 5-7 out of ten at "typical" but even women who did not report having endo had very similar responses at the highest levels: Acknowledgment of pain, comparison to their own experience and little visible physical distress. The men overwhelmingly seem to be overreacting in comparison, bending over double, sweating, moaning, etc.
As the comments often share - people who have periods have to go to work with them and generally aren't given enough sick days to avoid that outside of the most extreme cases. (Also for some, the side effects are worse than the pain, the hormonal swing and the period poops are my least favorite. )
I don't think it should be necessary for men to do this. They should just believe women. I once had an ovarian cyst burst - I was vomiting and ended up in the ER and couldn't stand up straight for 3 days. And I have been told that being kicked in the balls is worse so I shouldn't complain. I am less than impressed by such dismissals.
If it's impossible to have empathy without experiencing the pain directly, I suppose men should go for it. But I just feel like we could just believe people with periods when they say how bad it is.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, and I will definitely be checking out that TikTok account now. (thanks to you too, @arch). BTW, I wasn't trying to suggest men are incapable of empathizing...
Thanks for sharing your perspective, and I will definitely be checking out that TikTok account now. (thanks to you too, @arch).
BTW, I wasn't trying to suggest men are incapable of empathizing with, or believing women, which I absolutely try my best to do, especially with my sister who also has endometriosis. However, without even having a frame of reference, it's often hard to know exactly what something is actually like for someone else no matter how hard you try to empathize. The most painful things I have ever experienced has been broken bones, torn ligaments, and post surgery aches and pains, but I don't think that's even remotely the same sort of thing. So it's hard for me to completely relate to her experience, even though I try. That's why I was curious if the women here on Tildes thought this sort of TENS simulation is reasonably accurate, since I am honestly tempted to try it for myself. But as @arch mentioned, even the fact that such a simulation is voluntary would fundamentally change things, so wouldn't be nearly the same. I still think it would be an interesting and potentially eye-opening experience though, regardless of that. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
By no means was I accusing you individually of not believing women. I just think that the point of empathy is that we don't have to experience the thing to believe that it hurts. If folks want to...
By no means was I accusing you individually of not believing women. I just think that the point of empathy is that we don't have to experience the thing to believe that it hurts. If folks want to experience that, have at. But in a world where women frequently don't get any pain relief stronger than ibuprofen for IUD insertions I just see this very simple solution of "oh hey you say it hurts, so I bet it does."
It's patriarchy all the way down and all but like, it's exhausting ya know?
I've never tried it myself, only used a TENS for pain relief so I just don't know how it compares personally. But I've also had a hormonal implant in for the past 6+ years so I have few symptoms these days.
I agree that we should just believe women, and that should be that. But I also can't help but think that everyone knowing exactly how much it actually does hurt, how relentless it is, etc. could...
"oh hey you say it hurts, so I bet it does."
I agree that we should just believe women, and that should be that. But I also can't help but think that everyone knowing exactly how much it actually does hurt, how relentless it is, etc. could potentially help reduce the amount of minimization that goes on. Like, if during health class in school we had been offered the option to try a TENS machine to simulate some women's health issues, I think it would have gone a long way to helping everyone truly understand what it's like being a woman. And if everyone, regardless of gender, were to get even a small taste of what it's like to experience period cramps, labor pains, etc. I think it could go a long way towards getting more supportive legislation passed. But I dunno, maybe that's just me being overly optimistic, or pessimistic in thinking we are less likely to achieve those things without some first-hand shared experiences related to them.
it's exhausting ya know?
I can definitely empathize there too. I'm queer and also get absolutely exhausted dealing with people who can't/don't/won't empathize with LGBT+ issues. So, sorry if any of my comments here have come across in that way, or made you feel similarly exhausted having to deal with my own naivety/ignorance. That was absolutely not my intent. :(
Nah you're good, I'm also queer so I feel this. I just didn't feel like going into a deep dive on why women's health issues aren't taken so seriously anywhere. But to point out where you're...
Nah you're good, I'm also queer so I feel this. I just didn't feel like going into a deep dive on why women's health issues aren't taken so seriously anywhere.
But to point out where you're falling into a bit of a trap, once again not as a personal criticism but a societal one - why would we only need to empathize with women's health issues? Why is it "health" and "women's health" (setting aside menstrual health being not just a women's issue)? When statistically half your high school class experienced cramps and all the various side effects of menstruation?
The answer remains "patriarchy" but it's one of those frustrating patterns of society.
Yeah, not wanting to deep dive into the subject is totally understandable. I rarely have the energy to do that with LGBT+ issues anymore either. I just wish people would simply...
Yeah, not wanting to deep dive into the subject is totally understandable. I rarely have the energy to do that with LGBT+ issues anymore either. I just wish people would simply understand/empathize without needing to be walked through the issues step by step, and having all the misinformation they have had shoved into their heads debunked. But such is life. :(
And fair point about the patriarchy too... but I think the fact that we do live in a patriarchy, and the majority of legislators in most countries are male is why men having more empathy with women's health issues specifically is so important. Ideally men should just understand, empathize, and believe women... and more women should be elected. But also such is life. :(
I just want to note, I don't have endo, PCOS, or Fibroids, but my period pain is so debilitating. I used to miss entire weeks of school for the pain. As an adult, I just have to grin and bear it,...
I just want to note, I don't have endo, PCOS, or Fibroids, but my period pain is so debilitating. I used to miss entire weeks of school for the pain. As an adult, I just have to grin and bear it, and was often sent home from work when I worked with only women before Covid. They would take one look at me and go "Absolutely not, we don't need you here this badly" and cover for me.
Now with WFH, I can just lay in bed and "work" if needed and it's been such a game changer.
I wonder if I could convince my work to give us more sick days so I can feel less bad about taking time to sleep off my period..... I'd have to give the CEO a lot of squick though..... his wife is the president and she has her own issues, but never period issues.
I tried finding the channel, but I couldn't. Could you link to it for me, since I genuinely am interested in checking it out. The closest I found to something like that was @getsomedays, and a...
Period Pain is Not Normal TikTok
I tried finding the channel, but I couldn't. Could you link to it for me, since I genuinely am interested in checking it out.
The closest I found to something like that was @getsomedays, and a bunch of random other ones on #periodsimulator. Or were you referring to the #periodpainisnotnormal? I don't really know how TikTok works, so am a bit confused by it. :P
It is the GetSomeDays, their branding is Period Pain is Not Normal so I think I forgot it wasn't the channel name Here's a video link https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8REByXR/
It is the GetSomeDays, their branding is Period Pain is Not Normal so I think I forgot it wasn't the channel name
Ah, okay thanks. I already watched a bunch of the videos on that channel, and a bunch of other random ones too. My favorite was a cop at the Calgary Stampede last year having it done:...
Ah, okay thanks. I already watched a bunch of the videos on that channel, and a bunch of other random ones too. My favorite was a cop at the Calgary Stampede last year having it done: https://www.tiktok.com/@heatherm811/video/7250495646120168750
personally the least relatable part is for how long theyll have it at an 8. If its terrible cramps, it can get to a 10 really quickly and without warning, for like a second or two (enough to maybe...
How accurate do you think the video comes across? Can normal1 period cramps really be that strong and debilitating?
personally the least relatable part is for how long theyll have it at an 8. If its terrible cramps, it can get to a 10 really quickly and without warning, for like a second or two (enough to maybe make me have to crouch or hold on to something) and then it lessens, but the worse the period (usually during day 1-3 for me) the longer it will stay feeling like someone is squishing your guts from the inside. but its not 24/7 pain for me thankfully. Imagine the worst gases youve ever had and how acute but sharp the pain can be and how randomly it comes.
My wife faints regularly from period cramps. She has fibroids and a failed uterine ablation that made it worse. I have endometriosis. I don't have cramps, but I have tons of adhesions that can...
My wife faints regularly from period cramps. She has fibroids and a failed uterine ablation that made it worse.
I have endometriosis. I don't have cramps, but I have tons of adhesions that can tear when I make a wrong move or sneeze. It's the worst pain I've ever experienced.
I'm struggling to reconcile this with what I've read about the general lack of sex differences in pain sensitivity ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690315/ ). Seems like sex...
I'm struggling to reconcile this with what I've read about the general lack of sex differences in pain sensitivity ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690315/ ). Seems like sex differences are small, and to the extent that they exist, supposedly women are more pain-sensitive. Assuming that is true, where does the difference in mens' and women's reactions to period pain simulation come from?
Several possible explanations come to mind:
The women are used to feeling pain in that area, while the men are not, and are used to suppressing outward displays of that pain, while the men are not. Empirical test: If this is true, then if men were regularly subjected to this, they would be able to mask it better but not experience reduced pain. Empirical test 2: We would also see girls with their first periods have reactions similar to the mens'. (Googling suggests not, but also says first periods tend to be light, so maybe this just isn't a very good test.)
Women have experienced pain in that location so many times that they are now less sensitised to it. Empirical test: If women wore the device in a different body part, they would feel the pain more intensely and have reactions more similar to mens'.
The devices might be miscalibrated. I know nothing about how they work or how they're calibrated, but since pain is very subjective and not easily comparable, something about the direct attention paid to the pain during calibration, or the presence of observers, might throw off the calibration. Empirical test: ?
I'm not trying to downplay anything here, or to invalidate anyone's experience of pain. I'm genuinely trying to understand where exactly the difference in outward reactions come from.
As someone who menstruates, I'm pretty sure this is a large part of it. It would definitely need to be a paid study because I don't think you're going to have volunteers coming in droves Yes, for...
The women are used to feeling pain in that area, while the men are not, and are used to suppressing outward displays of that pain, while the men are not.
As someone who menstruates, I'm pretty sure this is a large part of it.
Empirical test: If this is true, then if men were regularly subjected to this, they would be able to mask it better but not experience reduced pain.
It would definitely need to be a paid study because I don't think you're going to have volunteers coming in droves
Empirical test 2: We would also see girls with their first periods have reactions similar to the mens'. (Googling suggests not, but also says first periods tend to be light, so maybe this just isn't a very good test.)
Yes, for the majority of people, someone's first period will tend to involve less volume of blood/tissue and also be less painful.
Women have experienced pain in that location so many times that they are now less sensitised to it.
I am almost certain this is the case. This is also not terribly different from your first bullet point.
Empirical test: If women wore the device in a different body part, they would feel the pain more intensely and have reactions more similar to mens'.
This is a decent idea, but different parts of the body have different levels of % fat, tissue, etc. Moving the device to a different part of the body would likely "move the needle" enough to make the test ineffective.
The devices might be miscalibrated. I know nothing about how they work or how they're calibrated, but since pain is very subjective and not easily comparable, something about the direct attention paid to the pain during calibration, or the presence of observers, might throw off the calibration. Empirical test: ?
The video shows one of the ladies hooked up to the same machine at the same time as one of the men and confirmed that the test was an OK-ish approximation of period pain at the different levels tested. She noted, though, that period pain was worse because period pain is internal, while the TENS unit was applied externally.
At any rate, I appreciate wanting to take a more "empirical" approach, but at the end of the day, the Try Guys weren't attempting to conduct a scientific experiment. I think the video is successful in that it stressed the importance that HALF THE POPULATION experiences pain for basically 25% of their adolescent and adult existence, and it discussed real-life implications, like having this (or any) level of pain while working or doing things like job interviews or giving presentations.
Thank you for your comments. I'm trying to integrate the info I have here, and it seems like the following is my best guess (still pretty low confidence, though) to reconcile the apparent...
Thank you for your comments. I'm trying to integrate the info I have here, and it seems like the following is my best guess (still pretty low confidence, though) to reconcile the apparent contradiction between (A) there are likely at most small sex differences in pain sensitivity, and yet, (B) the women in the video (and elsewhere) seem to have a much smaller reaction to the TENS device.
First, women and men probably feel similar amounts of pain from the TENS unit.
I think this is not obviously apparent, by the way---eating spicy food for the first time causes pain, but it definitely lessens with more experience, to the point that two people can eat the same pepper and have vastly different ratings of the pain. It was at least conceivable to me that something similar can happen to other kinds of pain, such that regular period pains might desensitise one to TENS pain in the same location.
The reason I think that the this desensitisation explanation is probably wrong, is that Rachel from the Try Guys video mentioned internal vs external pain (as you mentioned), and I don't have reason to believe that sensitisation would carry across different parts of the body (from internal to external pain).
Second, the difference in reactions is probably because women are able to effectively mask the pain from the TENS unit, specifically when the pain is framed as period pain.
That is, I'm guessing that women mask the (large amount of) pain from the TENS unit because the same social pressure which compels women to hide period pains, would also be applied to TENS pain, because it is framed as being the same thing / a simulation of the same thing.
I'm guessing that this is probably sufficient to explain why women in the meta-analysis reported overall similar (non-period) pain as men: since the pain was not socially required to be masked, and anyway masking is probably discouraged during scientific studies. Therefore their pain ratings were similar.
This would be falsifiable by using the TENS unit on, say, the calf, without mentioning anything about periods. My guess would be that everyone would react similarly here. If not, then I'm wrong and I need to think harder about this.
I guess for me, this explanation highlights how strong the social pressure must be, to be able to force masking of what seems to be a pretty large amount of pain.
I'm guessing that some or all of these might sound obvious to you. But I have been thinking about how to reconcile the contradiction, because I wasn't willing to take either of the lazy conclusions, that "obviously the scientists are wrong" or "obviously the women are faking".
I think it's also worth noting that the men who are reacting in extreme/entertaining ways are the ones you're more likely to see videos of, so it's a cherry-picked sample in a way -- the videos in...
I think it's also worth noting that the men who are reacting in extreme/entertaining ways are the ones you're more likely to see videos of, so it's a cherry-picked sample in a way -- the videos in which a man is reacting less strongly to the pain are probably going to get fewer views and thus be less likely for you to come across (and scrolling through @getsomedays on Tiktok, there are some men who just nod and go "wow that hurts" more like the women). I don't think the TryGuys are necessarily overreacting to the pain or deliberately hamming it up here, but they don't have any incentive to downplay their reactions either.
I don't think it's really consciously masking. That's just our trained response to that kind of pain at this point. I've spoken with a lot of guys who are very quiet during sex because when they...
I don't think it's really consciously masking. That's just our trained response to that kind of pain at this point.
I've spoken with a lot of guys who are very quiet during sex because when they spent so many years trying to masturbate quietly, and now silence feels more natural to them than vocal responses. They're still feeling that same pleasure, but their response to that pleasure is not to demonstrate it. When they have a partner that would appreciate those sounds, it becomes difficult for them to undo their accidental training.
I apologize for the NSFW comparison, but it's the best one I can think of. You spend years training yourself to respond a certain way to a stimuli, you aren't going to respond in an "untrained" way even if suddenly makes more sense to respond that way. It's not as if moaning would make the pain lessen anyway.
Women aren't used to the pain. They're used to hiding it. They also know what to expect. Young girls don't tend to have severe period pains, unless they're very unlucky (e.g. they have fibroids or...
Women aren't used to the pain. They're used to hiding it. They also know what to expect.
Young girls don't tend to have severe period pains, unless they're very unlucky (e.g. they have fibroids or pcos). The pain tends to get worse the older a woman gets.
Something to take into account is that a lot of girls are taught from a very young age that your period is a disgusting, extremely private thing and letting anyone know about it, especially a...
We would also see girls with their first periods have reactions similar to the mens'.
Something to take into account is that a lot of girls are taught from a very young age that your period is a disgusting, extremely private thing and letting anyone know about it, especially a male, is a terribly embarrassing failure.
My first few periods were very light and didn't hurt much, but when I did start to have cramps, I was very careful to hide them. I only expressed that I was in pain in private, because if anyone knew I had cramps they would know I was on my period and think I was disgusting. By the time I reconciled it as a natural part of my body that I shouldn't be ashamed of, I had already learned to hide all but the worst of the pain. I wouldn't be surprised to see more young women being open about the pain that they're in as we as a society normalize menstruation.
Basically yes to all your questions except for the overly dramatic part.
How accurate do you think the video comes across?
VERY ACCURATE. I loved that the women of the office were also involved and making commentary along the way. Not over dramatic at all. Basically it goes from feeling totally normal one day to like having your insides torn out the next. Not to mention the breast tenderness, pre cram cramping, craving for choc, hormones and then the fun stuff of bleeding - is it going to be light, med, heavy or HELL level or just all of the above... Oh also why the fk do we say it's only 'once a month', when it can be more like 5-10 days of this!!!??!! I remember when I first got mine thinking something was seriously wrong because I kept bleeding after 1 day. Once a month does not mean once a month.... Anyways....
What do you think about men using these TENS machines to simulate period cramps (or labor pains)
When done like this in an educational and entertainment format, hells yes. It helps bring awareness to the shit women have to go through on a regular basis. For me the part they really nailed was the fact they did it for the whole day and gave them assignments etc to do throughout.
do you think it's something more men should actually try, in order to understand better what it's like for women?
Hahaha omg I'm just imagining an office 'team bonding day' where all the men have do this! 😂 Sure I mean that'd be great if that's something they wanna try etc but also, would hope that it wouldn't take doing this to make changes when it comes to women's health etc.
Aware that this is from. 2016, so if there are any recent ones happy to read them, but certainly feel like this sorta sums up the state of things in Women's health (reproductive health specifically)
One of the first male versions of 'the pill' was abondoned due to side effects
Not saying that side effects should be tolerated or that contraceptive options for women haven't evolved, but feel it certainly highlights some issues with women being believed when it comes to health etc too
Just my 2c
And let's not forget period poops. One day you are constipated as hell no matter how much fibre you've eaten, and the next day you're violently painting the toilet bowl. Which one will it be today? No idea! And sometimes you can feel you bowel movements pushing against your tender uterus so passing gas or stools can be painful as well. Honestly if surgery and the medical consequences weren't so risky, I'd have yeeterus my uterus a looong time ago.
I'll also add impact to sleep. On my heaviest days, so many times I wake up -just in time- to run to the washroom and empty my menstrual cup. I always feel I get a worse sleep on those nights as if part of me is staying conscious enough to monitor how I feel down there all night long. Plus the interruption to sleep to deal with a period sucks as well. And my sleep may also be worse due to avoiding sleeping on my back all night long to reduce a chance of a leak (I've always found pad suck at preventing leaks while sleeping).
I can only speak for myself, but I would have been down to try something like that at my last office job! :P
And thanks for sharing your perspective on this. I genuinely appreciate it. :)
p.s. You made a top-level comment instead of replying to my comment with the questions. I still got notified about your comment because I submitted the topic though.
No worries happy to be of help! Oh dear! Haha sorry still figuring out how this all works - I'll get there one day! 😅
I'll add another less recognised issue - if you have ADHD, hormonal fluctuations can make your symptoms worse. This is unfortunately an area that is sorely lacking in research,, but plenty of menstruating individuals with ADHD will complain of worsening symptoms during their periods.
Aside from the abdominal pain, there's also:
Period migraines. I didn't know this was a thing until I started tracking my migraines and noticed that they tend to happen at the start of, or right before my period.
The fluctuation of energy and appetite levels during my cycle. Just makes it extra challenging to plan for my fitness (both diet and exercise). I tend to binge snack, and exercise poorly, right before my period starts.
The general hassle of planning around my period, like booking a beach trip or travel plans in general. It's not impossible to travel or swim during my period, it's just not fun. I'm lucky that mine is generally predictable (usually within a 3-day error margin); this is probably much worse for those who have a very irregular cycle.
I know the video is a bit low-brow, but I was kinda hoping it would spark some discussion about the issue, which I am interested in reading about as a cisish man. So I guess I will just ask a few questions directly to hopefully get some conversation going:
How accurate do you think the video comes across? Can normal1 period cramps really be that strong and debilitating? Or are the Try Guys just being a bit overly-dramatic for entertainment purposes?
What do you think about men using these TENS machines to simulate period cramps (or labor pains, which they also did in another video)? It's funny to watch, but do you think it's something more men should actually try, in order to understand better what it's like for women?
1 - The reason I said "normal" period cramps is because my sister has endometriosis, and has had surgery twice now in order to reduce her period pains (which she said helped, but the effect gradually faded, hence the multiple surgeries), so I know they can get really really bad in some cases. She often goes pale as a ghost, and can barely function when her cramps kick in because of how painful they are. But according to the health expert in the video, that level of pain is not normal, and yet that's the level of pain the Try Guys seemed to be experiencing.
It's a difficult topic honestly to even discuss as a cis male. I'm a cis male myself. I however do have Celiac disease, and I have read from multiple women on forums that I frequent, that the pain, bloating, cramping, brain fog, frequent diarrhea and constipation that I have felt for most of my life before I was diagnosed, is for some of them, indistinguishable from their menstrual cramps. It goes without saying, but I have no personal basis to make this comparison as a male.
Because of this I feel the need to point out that while a simulator can give us a basis for understanding what women are suffering through, we need to be aware that it's a voluntary device we get to choose to wear. We get to choose to put it on, and we get to choose when to take it off. You don't just wake up with it on in the middle of the night once a month and have to live with it for days. Something like this can hopefully increase empathy that many men lack for the pain and suffering of women, but it also needs to be understood that even if you can handle the pain and it's "not that bad" that we're not really experiencing what a woman is suffering through. How it is interrupting her sleep, her ability to relax, to do routine tasks essential to a human's mental health. We should all strive to express more sympathy, understanding and patience for our fellow humans when they're not up for doing what you want them to do, honestly for whatever reason that may be. Chronic pain and fatigue is often debilitating, be it a week of menstrual cramps, bleeding, etc. Be it an injured muscle or back pain. We all have a tendency to overestimate our suffering and underestimate the suffering of others.
All of this said, my spouse has endometriosis, and the complications that I have often seen her suffer through as a result of that condition (both cyst growth and cyst rupture) has been completely debilitating for her for periods of hours to days. Nothing I have experienced in my life has come close to what I have witnessed her go through. So the variability in menstrual pain appears to be very wide.
I follow the Period Pain is Not Normal TikTok where they do this with men and women, often a couple, and the reactions from the people who have menstrual cramps and those who don't are extremely varied. Their settings put 5-7 out of ten at "typical" but even women who did not report having endo had very similar responses at the highest levels: Acknowledgment of pain, comparison to their own experience and little visible physical distress. The men overwhelmingly seem to be overreacting in comparison, bending over double, sweating, moaning, etc.
As the comments often share - people who have periods have to go to work with them and generally aren't given enough sick days to avoid that outside of the most extreme cases. (Also for some, the side effects are worse than the pain, the hormonal swing and the period poops are my least favorite. )
I don't think it should be necessary for men to do this. They should just believe women. I once had an ovarian cyst burst - I was vomiting and ended up in the ER and couldn't stand up straight for 3 days. And I have been told that being kicked in the balls is worse so I shouldn't complain. I am less than impressed by such dismissals.
If it's impossible to have empathy without experiencing the pain directly, I suppose men should go for it. But I just feel like we could just believe people with periods when they say how bad it is.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, and I will definitely be checking out that TikTok account now. (thanks to you too, @arch).
BTW, I wasn't trying to suggest men are incapable of empathizing with, or believing women, which I absolutely try my best to do, especially with my sister who also has endometriosis. However, without even having a frame of reference, it's often hard to know exactly what something is actually like for someone else no matter how hard you try to empathize. The most painful things I have ever experienced has been broken bones, torn ligaments, and post surgery aches and pains, but I don't think that's even remotely the same sort of thing. So it's hard for me to completely relate to her experience, even though I try. That's why I was curious if the women here on Tildes thought this sort of TENS simulation is reasonably accurate, since I am honestly tempted to try it for myself. But as @arch mentioned, even the fact that such a simulation is voluntary would fundamentally change things, so wouldn't be nearly the same. I still think it would be an interesting and potentially eye-opening experience though, regardless of that. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
By no means was I accusing you individually of not believing women. I just think that the point of empathy is that we don't have to experience the thing to believe that it hurts. If folks want to experience that, have at. But in a world where women frequently don't get any pain relief stronger than ibuprofen for IUD insertions I just see this very simple solution of "oh hey you say it hurts, so I bet it does."
It's patriarchy all the way down and all but like, it's exhausting ya know?
I've never tried it myself, only used a TENS for pain relief so I just don't know how it compares personally. But I've also had a hormonal implant in for the past 6+ years so I have few symptoms these days.
I agree that we should just believe women, and that should be that. But I also can't help but think that everyone knowing exactly how much it actually does hurt, how relentless it is, etc. could potentially help reduce the amount of minimization that goes on. Like, if during health class in school we had been offered the option to try a TENS machine to simulate some women's health issues, I think it would have gone a long way to helping everyone truly understand what it's like being a woman. And if everyone, regardless of gender, were to get even a small taste of what it's like to experience period cramps, labor pains, etc. I think it could go a long way towards getting more supportive legislation passed. But I dunno, maybe that's just me being overly optimistic, or pessimistic in thinking we are less likely to achieve those things without some first-hand shared experiences related to them.
I can definitely empathize there too. I'm queer and also get absolutely exhausted dealing with people who can't/don't/won't empathize with LGBT+ issues. So, sorry if any of my comments here have come across in that way, or made you feel similarly exhausted having to deal with my own naivety/ignorance. That was absolutely not my intent. :(
Nah you're good, I'm also queer so I feel this. I just didn't feel like going into a deep dive on why women's health issues aren't taken so seriously anywhere.
But to point out where you're falling into a bit of a trap, once again not as a personal criticism but a societal one - why would we only need to empathize with women's health issues? Why is it "health" and "women's health" (setting aside menstrual health being not just a women's issue)? When statistically half your high school class experienced cramps and all the various side effects of menstruation?
The answer remains "patriarchy" but it's one of those frustrating patterns of society.
Yeah, not wanting to deep dive into the subject is totally understandable. I rarely have the energy to do that with LGBT+ issues anymore either. I just wish people would simply understand/empathize without needing to be walked through the issues step by step, and having all the misinformation they have had shoved into their heads debunked. But such is life. :(
And fair point about the patriarchy too... but I think the fact that we do live in a patriarchy, and the majority of legislators in most countries are male is why men having more empathy with women's health issues specifically is so important. Ideally men should just understand, empathize, and believe women... and more women should be elected. But also such is life. :(
I just want to note, I don't have endo, PCOS, or Fibroids, but my period pain is so debilitating. I used to miss entire weeks of school for the pain. As an adult, I just have to grin and bear it, and was often sent home from work when I worked with only women before Covid. They would take one look at me and go "Absolutely not, we don't need you here this badly" and cover for me.
Now with WFH, I can just lay in bed and "work" if needed and it's been such a game changer.
I wonder if I could convince my work to give us more sick days so I can feel less bad about taking time to sleep off my period..... I'd have to give the CEO a lot of squick though..... his wife is the president and she has her own issues, but never period issues.
I tried finding the channel, but I couldn't. Could you link to it for me, since I genuinely am interested in checking it out.
The closest I found to something like that was @getsomedays, and a bunch of random other ones on #periodsimulator. Or were you referring to the #periodpainisnotnormal? I don't really know how TikTok works, so am a bit confused by it. :P
It is the GetSomeDays, their branding is Period Pain is Not Normal so I think I forgot it wasn't the channel name
Here's a video link
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8REByXR/
Ah, okay thanks. I already watched a bunch of the videos on that channel, and a bunch of other random ones too. My favorite was a cop at the Calgary Stampede last year having it done:
https://www.tiktok.com/@heatherm811/video/7250495646120168750
personally the least relatable part is for how long theyll have it at an 8. If its terrible cramps, it can get to a 10 really quickly and without warning, for like a second or two (enough to maybe make me have to crouch or hold on to something) and then it lessens, but the worse the period (usually during day 1-3 for me) the longer it will stay feeling like someone is squishing your guts from the inside. but its not 24/7 pain for me thankfully. Imagine the worst gases youve ever had and how acute but sharp the pain can be and how randomly it comes.
My wife faints regularly from period cramps. She has fibroids and a failed uterine ablation that made it worse.
I have endometriosis. I don't have cramps, but I have tons of adhesions that can tear when I make a wrong move or sneeze. It's the worst pain I've ever experienced.
I'm struggling to reconcile this with what I've read about the general lack of sex differences in pain sensitivity ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3690315/ ). Seems like sex differences are small, and to the extent that they exist, supposedly women are more pain-sensitive. Assuming that is true, where does the difference in mens' and women's reactions to period pain simulation come from?
Several possible explanations come to mind:
I'm not trying to downplay anything here, or to invalidate anyone's experience of pain. I'm genuinely trying to understand where exactly the difference in outward reactions come from.
As someone who menstruates, I'm pretty sure this is a large part of it.
It would definitely need to be a paid study because I don't think you're going to have volunteers coming in droves
Yes, for the majority of people, someone's first period will tend to involve less volume of blood/tissue and also be less painful.
I am almost certain this is the case. This is also not terribly different from your first bullet point.
This is a decent idea, but different parts of the body have different levels of % fat, tissue, etc. Moving the device to a different part of the body would likely "move the needle" enough to make the test ineffective.
The video shows one of the ladies hooked up to the same machine at the same time as one of the men and confirmed that the test was an OK-ish approximation of period pain at the different levels tested. She noted, though, that period pain was worse because period pain is internal, while the TENS unit was applied externally.
At any rate, I appreciate wanting to take a more "empirical" approach, but at the end of the day, the Try Guys weren't attempting to conduct a scientific experiment. I think the video is successful in that it stressed the importance that HALF THE POPULATION experiences pain for basically 25% of their adolescent and adult existence, and it discussed real-life implications, like having this (or any) level of pain while working or doing things like job interviews or giving presentations.
Thank you for your comments. I'm trying to integrate the info I have here, and it seems like the following is my best guess (still pretty low confidence, though) to reconcile the apparent contradiction between (A) there are likely at most small sex differences in pain sensitivity, and yet, (B) the women in the video (and elsewhere) seem to have a much smaller reaction to the TENS device.
I guess for me, this explanation highlights how strong the social pressure must be, to be able to force masking of what seems to be a pretty large amount of pain.
I'm guessing that some or all of these might sound obvious to you. But I have been thinking about how to reconcile the contradiction, because I wasn't willing to take either of the lazy conclusions, that "obviously the scientists are wrong" or "obviously the women are faking".
I think it's also worth noting that the men who are reacting in extreme/entertaining ways are the ones you're more likely to see videos of, so it's a cherry-picked sample in a way -- the videos in which a man is reacting less strongly to the pain are probably going to get fewer views and thus be less likely for you to come across (and scrolling through @getsomedays on Tiktok, there are some men who just nod and go "wow that hurts" more like the women). I don't think the TryGuys are necessarily overreacting to the pain or deliberately hamming it up here, but they don't have any incentive to downplay their reactions either.
I don't think it's really consciously masking. That's just our trained response to that kind of pain at this point.
I apologize for the NSFW comparison, but it's the best one I can think of. You spend years training yourself to respond a certain way to a stimuli, you aren't going to respond in an "untrained" way even if suddenly makes more sense to respond that way. It's not as if moaning would make the pain lessen anyway.
Women aren't used to the pain. They're used to hiding it. They also know what to expect.
Young girls don't tend to have severe period pains, unless they're very unlucky (e.g. they have fibroids or pcos). The pain tends to get worse the older a woman gets.
Something to take into account is that a lot of girls are taught from a very young age that your period is a disgusting, extremely private thing and letting anyone know about it, especially a male, is a terribly embarrassing failure.
My first few periods were very light and didn't hurt much, but when I did start to have cramps, I was very careful to hide them. I only expressed that I was in pain in private, because if anyone knew I had cramps they would know I was on my period and think I was disgusting. By the time I reconciled it as a natural part of my body that I shouldn't be ashamed of, I had already learned to hide all but the worst of the pain. I wouldn't be surprised to see more young women being open about the pain that they're in as we as a society normalize menstruation.
I didn't know the "give it a whirl fuckers" https://youtu.be/g5tYnw3stUU were parodying a real specific thing until just now