Many of the things on these lists feel... like filler content. Maybe the whole thing. Outdated too, as if someone in 1925 complained that kids these days don't know how to drive a buggy because...
Many of the things on these lists feel... like filler content. Maybe the whole thing. Outdated too, as if someone in 1925 complained that kids these days don't know how to drive a buggy because they're all driving cars.
Dewey Decimal system - yeah computers made that outdated immediately. Sure, it's useful in a specialized way, particularly for librarians restocking shelves, but it could be any expandable organizing system and it'd be fine.
Automatic transmission: good luck finding a new car with a manual stick is-all-i'm-sayin.
Wind a watch: what planet do you live on that you think anyone needs an instruction manual to learn how to wind a watch??
Diagram a sentence: I know a kid who was learning this in middle school last week. Where is this person getting their information?
Use an atlas: again, atlases are neither difficult (turn to the notated page!) , nor necessary (computers!). If all the satellites go out at once... something else is seriously wrong, and you probably shouldn't drive somewhere you don't already know the directions anyway.
Also, "use technology like it's second nature" is so absolutely stunningly dumb. Technology is easier to use than I was growing up, and also harder to both personalize and break. Troubleshooting is a learned skill, and the less you are force to do it by your tech, the less comfortable you will be with doing it when necessary.
Manual cars definitely do exist in large quantities in some locations. When I moved to my present location (in rural Australia) a decade ago, I had to learn how to drive one because they are...
Manual cars definitely do exist in large quantities in some locations. When I moved to my present location (in rural Australia) a decade ago, I had to learn how to drive one because they are common and are generally more suited to certain types of driving that I now have to do occasionally. Since then, all of the vehicles I've owned have been manuals, all the vehicles I've driven for work have been manuals, and all the vehicles I've borrowed or rented have been manuals. Automatics are still more common than manuals overall, but I have nonetheless never had the chance to drive one so far.
But, of course, that means teenagers here absolutely do learn how to drive manuals. Many of them have been operating manual vehicles on their parents' farms since before they could legally drive on public roads and are more competent with them than I am. They whizz right through their driving tests.
Honestly, even as a mid-30s adult (God, I feel old typing that!) this system has never made complete sense to me, and seems somewhat haphazard, compared to the Library of Congress system, which my...
Dewey Decimal system
Honestly, even as a mid-30s adult (God, I feel old typing that!) this system has never made complete sense to me, and seems somewhat haphazard, compared to the Library of Congress system, which my university library uses, and to which I've become intimately familiar. I think the [Letter][Subletter][Number][Year] combination makes more intuitive sense, combined with the the way LoC categorizes subjects.
The Dewey Decimal system one is particularly egregious because even if you're trying to find a book in the library without a computer, tons of libraries use Library of Congress instead which is a...
The Dewey Decimal system one is particularly egregious because even if you're trying to find a book in the library without a computer, tons of libraries use Library of Congress instead which is a totally different system. I don't think I ever encountered a library that used Dewey Decimal irl, so the most I encountered it was when reading the second-to-last book in A Series of Unfortunate Events.
My only interaction was all of my grade school libraries used it, and I always took classes as a library assistant so I learned it. I haven't even thought about it since high school, though.
My only interaction was all of my grade school libraries used it, and I always took classes as a library assistant so I learned it.
I haven't even thought about it since high school, though.
Here are the lists if you don't want to click: Use a Card Catalog Wind a Watch Write in Cursive Tie a Tie Do Long Division Use an Atlas Write a Check Diagram a Sentence Drive a Stick Shift Operate...
One that I've learned: Touch typing is dying. They're throwing chromebooks at kindergardeners and just expecting them to learn it passively over time. But most kids aren't learning more than just...
One that I've learned: Touch typing is dying.
They're throwing chromebooks at kindergardeners and just expecting them to learn it passively over time. But most kids aren't learning more than just the two thumbs.
And lol GenXers are not Boomers. I have yet to meet a GenX who had trouble with technology the way that Boomers do. I see plenty of 50 year olds doing the same 'find instruction on youtube.' Hell, I'm almost 40 and I'm seriously considering redoing the crown of my chimney for my first masonry project ever, after watching a few vids.
We're finally starting to crest where middle age no longer means incapable of picking up new tech. Although the article's 'depth' on what it means to be able to use tech is pretty shallow.
I get intensely frustrated whenever "[using] technology like it’s second nature" comes up, it is an absolute falsehood. By technology we largely mean "computers" and it's just nonsense. I've had...
I get intensely frustrated whenever "[using] technology like it’s second nature" comes up, it is an absolute falsehood. By technology we largely mean "computers" and it's just nonsense. I've had to teach people that are just getting into their first year of university what keyboard shortcuts are.
The way that apps and OSs are being developed to maximise convenience, the emphasis on simplicity and the gradual shift away from any meaningful personalisation is also taking away a lot of the thinking power that used to be involved in using these devices. Someone else in this thread already touched on troubleshooting being a learned skill. I'm only a bit older than some of the students I support but I've really noticed how much more surface-level/ narrow their knowledge can be on this stuff.
We're doing younger generations a real disservice by going along with the idea that just because they had an iPad shoved into their little hands as toddlers they have this innate understanding of technology.
Quite. I teach programming and networks in high school, to people aged 15 to 19, and - for the vast majority of them - "using technology" boils down to searching for and installing apps/extensions...
Quite. I teach programming and networks in high school, to people aged 15 to 19, and - for the vast majority of them - "using technology" boils down to searching for and installing apps/extensions from a store. As soon as any kind of error message pops up, their brain seems to shut down - they don't even try to read what it says.
Hell, a lot of them struggle with the concept of file, and we explicitly teach it.
Blocked from accessing system settings on shared machines, yes. Being actively told to not mess around in menus, definitely not where I can see it. Menus keep on getting replaced with simplified...
Blocked from accessing system settings on shared machines, yes. Being actively told to not mess around in menus, definitely not where I can see it.
Menus keep on getting replaced with simplified user interfaces, too, which is part of the problem.
For secondhand cars maybe. For new sales they're pushing heavily towards automatic transmissions. Manual transmission is still being sold, but at least here in Norway they've incentivized sales of...
For secondhand cars maybe. For new sales they're pushing heavily towards automatic transmissions.
Manual transmission is still being sold, but at least here in Norway they've incentivized sales of automatics by making that a deduction in price.
I was hoping for a bit more depth to this article. I am not sure exactly what depth, perhaps dates when some of these things were removed from school curriculums (where applicable) or something....
I was hoping for a bit more depth to this article. I am not sure exactly what depth, perhaps dates when some of these things were removed from school curriculums (where applicable) or something.
The one that threw me a bit was long division because I don't understand conceptually how you can teach division without the long part to understand what you are doing. Maybe that is part of the scary new math. I will have to see if I can find some information on how it is currently taught.
I think these things are vaguely interesting in the same way show/toy trends are. Like people younger than ~me have no idea how big beanie babies / furbies were or how big a deal "Saturday Morning...
I think these things are vaguely interesting in the same way show/toy trends are. Like people younger than ~me have no idea how big beanie babies / furbies were or how big a deal "Saturday Morning Cartoons" were, and people older than ~me presumably endlessly quote Andy Griffith and know how to pack a bindle or whatever.
But that entire list seems like it could be, or was, made up by talking to a single person over 50.
Many of the "Don't know how"s are from teaching methods that have fallen out of favor or are now irrelevant due to technology. As someone who dailies a manual car, it's far from unique to under 20 year olds that people can't drive them, at least in the US. It's also not surprising that people don't know how to use Card Catalogue, because most library systems don't have them. I also wouldn't be surprised if most people aren't proficient in tapping out a telegraph.
The 5 "they're better at" seem purely about younger peoples tendency to explore things more because they're trying to find their niche. Seriously, "Develop skills"? Sure, Youtube definitely makes things simpler / cheaper / faster than sending away for a trade magazine or instruction booklet or correspondence course. As an IT guy hard disagree on any generation being better at technology, anything more than surface level it's a matter of personal interest and investment, just like anything else.
I actually think division would be much easier to teach when it isn't burdened by being coupled with long division. Division as a concept is quite simple—divide X things into Y equal parts—but...
I actually think division would be much easier to teach when it isn't burdened by being coupled with long division. Division as a concept is quite simple—divide X things into Y equal parts—but long division is a complicated algorithm (for the grade level it's taught) that doesn't illustrate how division works, it's just a method to work it out by hand.
Anecdotally, I remember long division being a major source of confusion for my peers and I suspect a point where many of them subconsciously wrote off math as a thing they could be 'good' at.
Its standard to teach basic division first, and then get to long division later, right? Like first you learn that 4÷2 = 2, or 9÷3=3, and so on. But eventually you need to learn how to divide 10 by...
Its standard to teach basic division first, and then get to long division later, right? Like first you learn that 4÷2 = 2, or 9÷3=3, and so on. But eventually you need to learn how to divide 10 by 3, which suddenly isn't so simple, so now you need long division.
But knowing how to do long division requires you to be able to do normal division first, because the first step in long dividing 10÷3 is to realize that 9÷3=3. So I don't see how it would be possible to attempt to teach long division without normal division first.
Alternatively you could break it up as 10÷3 = 10/3, which after you understand fractions is much simpler than long dividing and getting 3.3333..., but getting to the whole 'after you understand fractions' part is fairly difficult.
I might've been unclear. My position is for teaching just basic division, since the concept is the important part, and ditching long division altogether; it doesn't aid in teaching the concept and...
I might've been unclear. My position is for teaching just basic division, since the concept is the important part, and ditching long division altogether; it doesn't aid in teaching the concept and is, in a calculator-filled world, a rather useless algorithm.
I think kids who've grasped the basics can conceptualize something like 42÷6 even if they don't know of a way to work it out on pen and paper.
In general it's incredibly useful to understand the process behind anything you're going to automate. Even if you rely on calculators for division, it's still helpful to know the steps behind how...
In general it's incredibly useful to understand the process behind anything you're going to automate. Even if you rely on calculators for division, it's still helpful to know the steps behind how you would do it without one, since it makes spotting errors much easier.
If a calculator is just a black box that gives you a number then you'll be much more likely to not notice when you put in bad data and get a garbage answer, while if you already know what to expect then you can use the calculator as a shortcut while still being able to check the result.
And the concept behind long division is really quite necessary for a lot of simple and useful math. Say you cook 5 eggs at a time and you want to know how many boxes of 12 you need. Even if you don't write it out, you need either long division or fractions to solve that problem.
And as complicated as long division is, at least in my experience fractions were FAR worse, even in high school plenty of people would just give up as soon as they saw fractions.
And this is why broad adoption of LLMs and other AI algorithms are incredibly dangerous. Computers are already a black box of magic to most. Having a calculator for language skills is gonna...
If a calculator is just a black box that gives you a number then you'll be much more likely to not notice when you put in bad data and get a garbage answer, while if you already know what to expect then you can use the calculator as a shortcut while still being able to check the result.
And this is why broad adoption of LLMs and other AI algorithms are incredibly dangerous. Computers are already a black box of magic to most. Having a calculator for language skills is gonna decimate language comprehension and 'checking AI output' will be an exception, not the norm.
I agree that it's useful to know the process, but long division is not "how division works", it's an algorithm that you churn through to get an answer. I think the hangup here is the belief that...
I agree that it's useful to know the process, but long division is not "how division works", it's an algorithm that you churn through to get an answer. I think the hangup here is the belief that long division is like peeking behind the curtain when it really isn't. It's one of many division algorithms and learning only one can lead to the false belief that it's fundamental.
Are students using the algorithm able to explain why it's producing the correct answer? It's rather complicated and abstract for a ten-year-old to grasp, and with the answer almost certainly being "no" (even for most adults who still remember it!), it's just as much of a black box as a calculator, made worse because a calculator doesn't forget the steps or make mistakes!
I don't think it has much value as a backup algorithm, either. Despite doing quite a lot of division in my life, I don't believe I've ever once checked my answer using long division, not even the first step to test the first digit; it's much more efficient in today's world to just double-check your calculator inputs.
This is all bound to be very regional, and, at least in the case of private schools, the curriculum can also vary greatly from school to school. My sister is in school right now, and she was...
This is all bound to be very regional, and, at least in the case of private schools, the curriculum can also vary greatly from school to school. My sister is in school right now, and she was taught long division last year. It's my opinion that learning to do long division by hand didn't help her with understanding division at a more conceptual level, although I still think it is a valuable thing to know how to do.
Diagramming a sentence must be some American thing right? This is literally the first time I've heard about something like that. What on earth is the purpose of it?
Diagramming a sentence must be some American thing right? This is literally the first time I've heard about something like that.
It's used to learn the structure of sentences grammatically (what modifies what, etc.) That said, I'm not particularly convinced the method they teach in English classes teaches you much on that...
It's used to learn the structure of sentences grammatically (what modifies what, etc.) That said, I'm not particularly convinced the method they teach in English classes teaches you much on that front. Learning a more linguistically-grounded method like a simple Dependency Grammar would probably be more helpful for its goals, but the current style has the weight of tradition behind it and most English teachers have no understanding of linguistics anyway.
The only one I have strong opinions on is reading maps/atlas and it's not just with younger people. GPS is an extremely robust and effective tool but it irks me a when people don't assess the...
The only one I have strong opinions on is reading maps/atlas and it's not just with younger people. GPS is an extremely robust and effective tool but it irks me a when people don't assess the information and intrinsically trust the machine. Been seeing more and cases of mistakes or unnecessarily long/dangerous routes and a lot of it is simply user error. Also had a proper Boomer moment when I was driving around some teens and they had no clue how to get where they were going or even the basic geograpy of the city.
I will also say that confidently driving stick shift on a technical drive is one of the most attractive things someone can do in a car. I would advise everyone to learn this skill for that reason alone.
This could just be the result of mostly being driven around so far in their lives rather than needing to navigate their own way. I never develop a sense of a city unless I’m involved in getting...
I was driving around some teens and they had no clue how to get where they were going or even the basic geograpy of the city.
This could just be the result of mostly being driven around so far in their lives rather than needing to navigate their own way. I never develop a sense of a city unless I’m involved in getting around. If you just get into a car, have a parent or guardian drive you, then get out of the car at your destination, it’s easy to not develop a mental map.
Many of the things on these lists feel... like filler content. Maybe the whole thing. Outdated too, as if someone in 1925 complained that kids these days don't know how to drive a buggy because they're all driving cars.
Dewey Decimal system - yeah computers made that outdated immediately. Sure, it's useful in a specialized way, particularly for librarians restocking shelves, but it could be any expandable organizing system and it'd be fine.
Automatic transmission: good luck finding a new car with a manual stick is-all-i'm-sayin.
Wind a watch: what planet do you live on that you think anyone needs an instruction manual to learn how to wind a watch??
Diagram a sentence: I know a kid who was learning this in middle school last week. Where is this person getting their information?
Use an atlas: again, atlases are neither difficult (turn to the notated page!) , nor necessary (computers!). If all the satellites go out at once... something else is seriously wrong, and you probably shouldn't drive somewhere you don't already know the directions anyway.
Also, "use technology like it's second nature" is so absolutely stunningly dumb. Technology is easier to use than I was growing up, and also harder to both personalize and break. Troubleshooting is a learned skill, and the less you are force to do it by your tech, the less comfortable you will be with doing it when necessary.
Bah humbug to this clickbait, basically.
Manual cars definitely do exist in large quantities in some locations. When I moved to my present location (in rural Australia) a decade ago, I had to learn how to drive one because they are common and are generally more suited to certain types of driving that I now have to do occasionally. Since then, all of the vehicles I've owned have been manuals, all the vehicles I've driven for work have been manuals, and all the vehicles I've borrowed or rented have been manuals. Automatics are still more common than manuals overall, but I have nonetheless never had the chance to drive one so far.
But, of course, that means teenagers here absolutely do learn how to drive manuals. Many of them have been operating manual vehicles on their parents' farms since before they could legally drive on public roads and are more competent with them than I am. They whizz right through their driving tests.
Honestly, even as a mid-30s adult (God, I feel old typing that!) this system has never made complete sense to me, and seems somewhat haphazard, compared to the Library of Congress system, which my university library uses, and to which I've become intimately familiar. I think the [Letter][Subletter][Number][Year] combination makes more intuitive sense, combined with the the way LoC categorizes subjects.
The Dewey Decimal system one is particularly egregious because even if you're trying to find a book in the library without a computer, tons of libraries use Library of Congress instead which is a totally different system. I don't think I ever encountered a library that used Dewey Decimal irl, so the most I encountered it was when reading the second-to-last book in A Series of Unfortunate Events.
My only interaction was all of my grade school libraries used it, and I always took classes as a library assistant so I learned it.
I haven't even thought about it since high school, though.
In the US ;)
Here are the lists if you don't want to click:
Five Things Kids Know How to Do Better:
Given that a Tie doesn't really serve any purpose whatsoever, the sooner it was completely forgotten, the better.
Bow ties look pretty nice though :(
One that I've learned: Touch typing is dying.
They're throwing chromebooks at kindergardeners and just expecting them to learn it passively over time. But most kids aren't learning more than just the two thumbs.
And lol GenXers are not Boomers. I have yet to meet a GenX who had trouble with technology the way that Boomers do. I see plenty of 50 year olds doing the same 'find instruction on youtube.' Hell, I'm almost 40 and I'm seriously considering redoing the crown of my chimney for my first masonry project ever, after watching a few vids.
We're finally starting to crest where middle age no longer means incapable of picking up new tech. Although the article's 'depth' on what it means to be able to use tech is pretty shallow.
I get intensely frustrated whenever "[using] technology like it’s second nature" comes up, it is an absolute falsehood. By technology we largely mean "computers" and it's just nonsense. I've had to teach people that are just getting into their first year of university what keyboard shortcuts are.
The way that apps and OSs are being developed to maximise convenience, the emphasis on simplicity and the gradual shift away from any meaningful personalisation is also taking away a lot of the thinking power that used to be involved in using these devices. Someone else in this thread already touched on troubleshooting being a learned skill. I'm only a bit older than some of the students I support but I've really noticed how much more surface-level/ narrow their knowledge can be on this stuff.
We're doing younger generations a real disservice by going along with the idea that just because they had an iPad shoved into their little hands as toddlers they have this innate understanding of technology.
Quite. I teach programming and networks in high school, to people aged 15 to 19, and - for the vast majority of them - "using technology" boils down to searching for and installing apps/extensions from a store. As soon as any kind of error message pops up, their brain seems to shut down - they don't even try to read what it says.
Hell, a lot of them struggle with the concept of file, and we explicitly teach it.
Not only that, but they're actively being told to not mess around in menus, of not completely blocked from accessing setting by the system admins.
Blocked from accessing system settings on shared machines, yes. Being actively told to not mess around in menus, definitely not where I can see it.
Menus keep on getting replaced with simplified user interfaces, too, which is part of the problem.
Not outside the US.
They are still the norm in Europe.
For secondhand cars maybe. For new sales they're pushing heavily towards automatic transmissions.
Manual transmission is still being sold, but at least here in Norway they've incentivized sales of automatics by making that a deduction in price.
I was hoping for a bit more depth to this article. I am not sure exactly what depth, perhaps dates when some of these things were removed from school curriculums (where applicable) or something.
The one that threw me a bit was long division because I don't understand conceptually how you can teach division without the long part to understand what you are doing. Maybe that is part of the scary new math. I will have to see if I can find some information on how it is currently taught.
I think these things are vaguely interesting in the same way show/toy trends are. Like people younger than ~me have no idea how big beanie babies / furbies were or how big a deal "Saturday Morning Cartoons" were, and people older than ~me presumably endlessly quote Andy Griffith and know how to pack a bindle or whatever.
But that entire list seems like it could be, or was, made up by talking to a single person over 50.
Many of the "Don't know how"s are from teaching methods that have fallen out of favor or are now irrelevant due to technology. As someone who dailies a manual car, it's far from unique to under 20 year olds that people can't drive them, at least in the US. It's also not surprising that people don't know how to use Card Catalogue, because most library systems don't have them. I also wouldn't be surprised if most people aren't proficient in tapping out a telegraph.
The 5 "they're better at" seem purely about younger peoples tendency to explore things more because they're trying to find their niche. Seriously, "Develop skills"? Sure, Youtube definitely makes things simpler / cheaper / faster than sending away for a trade magazine or instruction booklet or correspondence course. As an IT guy hard disagree on any generation being better at technology, anything more than surface level it's a matter of personal interest and investment, just like anything else.
I actually think division would be much easier to teach when it isn't burdened by being coupled with long division. Division as a concept is quite simple—divide X things into Y equal parts—but long division is a complicated algorithm (for the grade level it's taught) that doesn't illustrate how division works, it's just a method to work it out by hand.
Anecdotally, I remember long division being a major source of confusion for my peers and I suspect a point where many of them subconsciously wrote off math as a thing they could be 'good' at.
Its standard to teach basic division first, and then get to long division later, right? Like first you learn that 4÷2 = 2, or 9÷3=3, and so on. But eventually you need to learn how to divide 10 by 3, which suddenly isn't so simple, so now you need long division.
But knowing how to do long division requires you to be able to do normal division first, because the first step in long dividing 10÷3 is to realize that 9÷3=3. So I don't see how it would be possible to attempt to teach long division without normal division first.
Alternatively you could break it up as 10÷3 = 10/3, which after you understand fractions is much simpler than long dividing and getting 3.3333..., but getting to the whole 'after you understand fractions' part is fairly difficult.
I might've been unclear. My position is for teaching just basic division, since the concept is the important part, and ditching long division altogether; it doesn't aid in teaching the concept and is, in a calculator-filled world, a rather useless algorithm.
I think kids who've grasped the basics can conceptualize something like 42÷6 even if they don't know of a way to work it out on pen and paper.
In general it's incredibly useful to understand the process behind anything you're going to automate. Even if you rely on calculators for division, it's still helpful to know the steps behind how you would do it without one, since it makes spotting errors much easier.
If a calculator is just a black box that gives you a number then you'll be much more likely to not notice when you put in bad data and get a garbage answer, while if you already know what to expect then you can use the calculator as a shortcut while still being able to check the result.
And the concept behind long division is really quite necessary for a lot of simple and useful math. Say you cook 5 eggs at a time and you want to know how many boxes of 12 you need. Even if you don't write it out, you need either long division or fractions to solve that problem.
And as complicated as long division is, at least in my experience fractions were FAR worse, even in high school plenty of people would just give up as soon as they saw fractions.
And this is why broad adoption of LLMs and other AI algorithms are incredibly dangerous. Computers are already a black box of magic to most. Having a calculator for language skills is gonna decimate language comprehension and 'checking AI output' will be an exception, not the norm.
I agree that it's useful to know the process, but long division is not "how division works", it's an algorithm that you churn through to get an answer. I think the hangup here is the belief that long division is like peeking behind the curtain when it really isn't. It's one of many division algorithms and learning only one can lead to the false belief that it's fundamental.
Are students using the algorithm able to explain why it's producing the correct answer? It's rather complicated and abstract for a ten-year-old to grasp, and with the answer almost certainly being "no" (even for most adults who still remember it!), it's just as much of a black box as a calculator, made worse because a calculator doesn't forget the steps or make mistakes!
I don't think it has much value as a backup algorithm, either. Despite doing quite a lot of division in my life, I don't believe I've ever once checked my answer using long division, not even the first step to test the first digit; it's much more efficient in today's world to just double-check your calculator inputs.
This is all bound to be very regional, and, at least in the case of private schools, the curriculum can also vary greatly from school to school. My sister is in school right now, and she was taught long division last year. It's my opinion that learning to do long division by hand didn't help her with understanding division at a more conceptual level, although I still think it is a valuable thing to know how to do.
Diagramming a sentence must be some American thing right? This is literally the first time I've heard about something like that.
What on earth is the purpose of it?
It's not, as I've had to identify and split sentences by their subject and predicates in Dutch. Their purpose is learning tenses I suppose.
It's used to learn the structure of sentences grammatically (what modifies what, etc.) That said, I'm not particularly convinced the method they teach in English classes teaches you much on that front. Learning a more linguistically-grounded method like a simple Dependency Grammar would probably be more helpful for its goals, but the current style has the weight of tradition behind it and most English teachers have no understanding of linguistics anyway.
The only one I have strong opinions on is reading maps/atlas and it's not just with younger people. GPS is an extremely robust and effective tool but it irks me a when people don't assess the information and intrinsically trust the machine. Been seeing more and cases of mistakes or unnecessarily long/dangerous routes and a lot of it is simply user error. Also had a proper Boomer moment when I was driving around some teens and they had no clue how to get where they were going or even the basic geograpy of the city.
I will also say that confidently driving stick shift on a technical drive is one of the most attractive things someone can do in a car. I would advise everyone to learn this skill for that reason alone.
This could just be the result of mostly being driven around so far in their lives rather than needing to navigate their own way. I never develop a sense of a city unless I’m involved in getting around. If you just get into a car, have a parent or guardian drive you, then get out of the car at your destination, it’s easy to not develop a mental map.