48 votes

'Mass shooting' at Madden video game tournament in Jacksonville

61 comments

  1. [23]
    zendainc
    Link
    For fucks sake America, get your shit together. Gun control works. Gun control isn't hard. Stop killing people. Sincerely, a frustrated Australian gun owner, who loves our gun control system.

    For fucks sake America, get your shit together. Gun control works. Gun control isn't hard. Stop killing people.

    Sincerely, a frustrated Australian gun owner, who loves our gun control system.

    29 votes
    1. [13]
      Askme_about_penguins
      Link Parent
      Opponents like to argue that it doesn't because it only makes it more difficult or impossible for law-abiding innocent people to get weapons but not for criminals, which gives the latter an advantage.

      Gun control works.

      Opponents like to argue that it doesn't because it only makes it more difficult or impossible for law-abiding innocent people to get weapons but not for criminals, which gives the latter an advantage.

      2 votes
      1. [7]
        zendainc
        Link Parent
        It's surprisingly easy to get a gun in Australia. We just make sure that you aren't crazy, and have the right gun for the right job. I'm a long distance target shooter, so I have some pretty...

        It's surprisingly easy to get a gun in Australia. We just make sure that you aren't crazy, and have the right gun for the right job.

        I'm a long distance target shooter, so I have some pretty powerful rifles. All I had to do was attend a basic safety course, and have a cursory background check. I also have to justify the use of my weapons by proving my membership of the Sporting Shooters Association. All of these things took minimal time and effort.

        Also, contrary to popular belief, you CAN buy an AR-15 in Australia. We just restrict it to people who genuinely require them for pest control reasons.

        The Bushmaster AR-15 is based on the US military standard issue firearm (often referred to as the M16) and is a semi-automatic centre fire rifle firing .223 calibre (or 5.56mm) rounds. Under Australian laws, it would be classified as a Category D firearm, with ownership restricted to military, police, and professional vertebrate pest controllers.

        21 votes
        1. [2]
          Vadsamoht
          Link Parent
          Damn, I'm only a professional invertebrate pest controller :(

          Damn, I'm only a professional invertebrate pest controller :(

          4 votes
          1. zendainc
            Link Parent
            If you feel the need for a semi-automatic, there's actually a very tiny loophole. You can get a semi-auto air rifle under a recreational license.

            If you feel the need for a semi-automatic, there's actually a very tiny loophole.

            You can get a semi-auto air rifle under a recreational license.

            1 vote
        2. [4]
          spctrvl
          Link Parent
          Jesus, what kinds of pests require an AR-15 to deal with?

          Jesus, what kinds of pests require an AR-15 to deal with?

          1 vote
          1. Neverland
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I think maybe roo's count as pests in the land of Oz. https://www.animallaw.info/intro/kangaroo-culling-australia Am I close to correct, actual Australians?

            I think maybe roo's count as pests in the land of Oz.

            Ordinarily, it is illegal to kill, buy, sell or possess a kangaroo in Australia. However, in response to the growing kangaroo population, the Australian government permits license holders to 'cull' or shoot kangaroos. This has resulted in the largest slaughter of land-based wildlife on the planet.

            https://www.animallaw.info/intro/kangaroo-culling-australia

            Am I close to correct, actual Australians?

            2 votes
          2. zendainc
            Link Parent
            Mostly semi-auto firearms get used when you need quantity. For example, when you want to fill as much of a herd/group as possible, before they all escape back into the scrub.

            Mostly semi-auto firearms get used when you need quantity. For example, when you want to fill as much of a herd/group as possible, before they all escape back into the scrub.

      2. crius
        Link Parent
        And it's not wrong. But the point of countries in which the gun are much harder to get, or don't have a social acceptance of carrying a gun with you as a "normal thing" is that if some criminal...

        And it's not wrong.

        But the point of countries in which the gun are much harder to get, or don't have a social acceptance of carrying a gun with you as a "normal thing" is that if some criminal enter your premises, 99/100 times is to rob you. And it's not worth it to die over your precious macBook. Also, in 2018 I seriously hope you've at least an insurance for your home possessions. If you don't, you probably don't have stuff worth robbing anyway and I assure you, robbers will know that.

        For shops, I think it's everywhere policy to let the robbers take whatever the fuck they want because insurance.

        So really, what's the use-case scenario that make it so having a gun on you actually is less dangerous?

        3 votes
      3. [4]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [2]
          rkcr
          Link Parent
          I find it disingenuous to equate the killing potential of guns to that of knives - that's why there's the expression about it being folly to "bring a knife to a gun fight." As for the killdozer -...

          If gun is outlawed straight up, people would find other way to channel their mass-killing issues/frustration like stabbing or vehicular violence like the killdozer.

          I find it disingenuous to equate the killing potential of guns to that of knives - that's why there's the expression about it being folly to "bring a knife to a gun fight."

          As for the killdozer - it actually killed no one, despite being built expressly for damage. This person today managed to kill four people, all by purchasing off-the-shelf guns.

          No one is arguing that getting rid of guns will rid us of violence. But gun control can reduce the potential damage of violent outbursts.

          12 votes
          1. [2]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. rkcr
              Link Parent
              I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted what zendainc posted. He didn't argue that it will get rid of all violence. He said it "works", which is vague, but I'm guessing he meant "reduces gun violence."...

              This guy is. It's disingenuous to move the goalpost when there are those who argue for such position.

              I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted what zendainc posted. He didn't argue that it will get rid of all violence. He said it "works", which is vague, but I'm guessing he meant "reduces gun violence."

              Either way, what you're saying didn't address the underlying issue that causes this mass killings.

              I agree with you on working on the underlying issues, thus I didn't bring that part up!

              I also believe it makes sense to work on both the cause and the symptoms. For example, if you've got a painful disease, they don't simply put you on a treatment plan for curing the underlying disease - you'll be given painkillers, too, to lower the pain while the treatment does its work.

              8 votes
        2. spit-evil-olive-tips
          Link Parent
          Knives won't allow you to kill 58 and injure 851 in the span of 10 minutes. Violence will of course never be "solved", but I find this sort of "it's impossible to get to a perfect solution so we...

          If gun is outlawed straight up, people would find other way to channel their mass-killing issues/frustration like stabbing or vehicular violence like the killdozer.

          Knives won't allow you to kill 58 and injure 851 in the span of 10 minutes.

          Violence will of course never be "solved", but I find this sort of "it's impossible to get to a perfect solution so we shouldn't even try" attitude towards regulation of weapons to be extremely counter-productive.

          8 votes
      4. Spike
        Link Parent
        This is why in Jacksonville, everyone in the room instantly shot back at the attacker, incapacitating him without problems and continuing to play games happily afterwards. After they applauded, of...

        Opponents like to argue that it doesn't because it only makes it more difficult or impossible for law-abiding innocent people to get weapons but not for criminals, which gives the latter an advantage.

        This is why in Jacksonville, everyone in the room instantly shot back at the attacker, incapacitating him without problems and continuing to play games happily afterwards. After they applauded, of course.

        1 vote
    2. [9]
      Akronymus
      Link Parent
      Wasn't this a gun free zone anyways?

      Wasn't this a gun free zone anyways?

      1 vote
      1. [8]
        Petril
        Link Parent
        I kind of assume that the fact that bombings are less common in USA than mass gun violence is because it's so much harder to get your hands on a bomb than on a gun. If it's harder to get your...

        I kind of assume that the fact that bombings are less common in USA than mass gun violence is because it's so much harder to get your hands on a bomb than on a gun.

        If it's harder to get your hands on a gun, then you're gonna have a lot of people deterred from committing violence. Not everyone, but a lot.

        I like the system of some other countries to prove you need a gun. Background check, proof of gun safety course, proof of need (gun collector club membership with proven collection, membership to shooting league, live on farm, whatever). It's not going to stop everyone, but it will stop those people who have said "They were right there. It was easy."

        3 votes
        1. [7]
          Akronymus
          Link Parent
          I personally think that guns need to have background checks. But I also see it being futile to try and impose extreme rules on everyone. And the most commonly cited source for mass shootings I...

          I personally think that guns need to have background checks. But I also see it being futile to try and impose extreme rules on everyone.

          And the most commonly cited source for mass shootings I found everything with 4+ injured count as a mass shooting. This includes gang violence (where most guns are illegal anyways) and which afaik exagerrates the number by quite a bit.

          Also: we kinda got off an tangent, with whether or not it was a gun free zone, so I searched for it myself and found that it indeed was. I used this search

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            Petril
            Link Parent
            But what I was getting at, poorly, was it's easy to carry a gun into a gun free zone. If it wasn't easy to get a gun, that would make a bigger difference. I don't think the rules I listed were...

            But what I was getting at, poorly, was it's easy to carry a gun into a gun free zone. If it wasn't easy to get a gun, that would make a bigger difference.

            But I also see it being futile to try and impose extreme rules on everyone.

            I don't think the rules I listed were extreme.

            4 votes
            1. Akronymus
              Link Parent
              In that case, I meant basically completely banning guns. Sorry if it came across as meaning your suggestions were extreme. (Not being a native english speaker sucks some times.)

              In that case, I meant basically completely banning guns. Sorry if it came across as meaning your suggestions were extreme. (Not being a native english speaker sucks some times.)

              1 vote
          2. [4]
            Neverland
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I don't understand how other civilians with guns, or anyone else with guns for that matter could have responded to that particular situation in time. The whole thing took, what, 10 seconds? Am I...

            it was a gun free zone

            I don't understand how other civilians with guns, or anyone else with guns for that matter could have responded to that particular situation in time. The whole thing took, what, 10 seconds? Am I correct on that? Is someone going to have time to identify the shooter in a crowded space, make sure the line of fire is clear, and take a shot?

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              Akronymus
              Link Parent
              It could at least have served as a form of discouragement for the shooter.

              It could at least have served as a form of discouragement for the shooter.

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                Ochre
                Link Parent
                The shooter ended up killing themselves anyway, though. What kind of discouragement would the nebulous threat of someone who might have a gun really offer to someone who planned on shooting...

                The shooter ended up killing themselves anyway, though. What kind of discouragement would the nebulous threat of someone who might have a gun really offer to someone who planned on shooting themselves anyway?

                3 votes
                1. Akronymus
                  Link Parent
                  Ok. That is new info for me. I'll have to think about it.

                  Ok. That is new info for me. I'll have to think about it.

                  1 vote
  2. dubteedub
    Link
    Jesus christ this is horrifying The place was shot up while some of the attendees were streaming. There is a video of a guy with a laser pointed at his chest right before the shooting starts. Wtf...

    Jesus christ this is horrifying

    The place was shot up while some of the attendees were streaming. There is a video of a guy with a laser pointed at his chest right before the shooting starts.

    Wtf is wrong with this country. Why do we continue to tolerate so many mass shootings. I'm so fucking sick of gun nuts controlling rhe narrative while young people are getting gunned down

    Edit: reports are that at least 4 are dead, including the shooter. A dozen are injured.

    26 votes
  3. [2]
    cain
    (edited )
    Link
    Jesus man, I play Madden and happened to be watching a streamer that was playing Madden at the time... He's an EA Gamechanger so has plenty of friends that were there and he just kinda went quiet,...

    Jesus man, I play Madden and happened to be watching a streamer that was playing Madden at the time...

    He's an EA Gamechanger so has plenty of friends that were there and he just kinda went quiet, teared up, and stopped the stream when he finally was convinced and saw the clip. Pretty chilling, laser on his chest seconds later shots. It's just feels unreal.

    24 votes
    1. PsychoPitcher
      Link Parent
      Yeah I was watching that shit live. It was surreal

      Yeah I was watching that shit live. It was surreal

      1 vote
  4. [2]
    myk
    Link
    Some useful advice for these situations: Don’t name them. From that page: Some shooters are motivated by a desire for fame, notoriety, and/or recognition. When the media focuses on the shooter,...

    Some useful advice for these situations: Don’t name them.

    From that page:

    • Some shooters are motivated by a desire for fame, notoriety, and/or recognition.
    • When the media focuses on the shooter, they provide this fame, notoriety and recognition.
    • This focus allows the shooter to accomplish one of his goals, and validates his life and actions.
    21 votes
    1. what
      Link Parent
      I think the media is a huge contributor to the problem. They ignore any and all advice on how to handle shootings, cover them for days, give them as much attention as possible,, and face no...

      I think the media is a huge contributor to the problem. They ignore any and all advice on how to handle shootings, cover them for days, give them as much attention as possible,, and face no consequences. This is one of my biggest problems with for-profit media.

      5 votes
  5. [11]
    Jankinator
    Link
    I wonder what Will get blamed as the cause of this shooting so the guns can be absolved.

    I wonder what Will get blamed as the cause of this shooting so the guns can be absolved.

    17 votes
    1. [4]
      zendainc
      Link Parent
      I'm a big believer in gun control, but I have to stress that these sorts of attacks aren't a gun problem, they are a mental health problem, though it could possibly be described better as a gun...

      I'm a big believer in gun control, but I have to stress that these sorts of attacks aren't a gun problem, they are a mental health problem, though it could possibly be described better as a gun access problem.

      14 votes
      1. Jankinator
        Link Parent
        America doesn't do anything about guns or mental health. We just use mental health as a scapegoat to rationalize things.

        America doesn't do anything about guns or mental health. We just use mental health as a scapegoat to rationalize things.

        19 votes
      2. Klayy
        Link Parent
        There are people with mental health problems in all countries, but mass shootings are very rare in all first world countries except America, so mental health probably isn't the main cause. I'm not...

        There are people with mental health problems in all countries, but mass shootings are very rare in all first world countries except America, so mental health probably isn't the main cause. I'm not claiming it's specifically a gun access problem either. It might have something to do with culture, education and/or other factors. It's a complex issue, but I believe gun control is one of many factors which might need to be adjusted to improve the situation long term.

        10 votes
      3. crius
        Link Parent
        I think that every pro-gun control person knows that limiting access to guns doesn't solve the violence in itself, but as you're right, and as other have said, it's hard to kill tens of people and...

        I think that every pro-gun control person knows that limiting access to guns doesn't solve the violence in itself, but as you're right, and as other have said, it's hard to kill tens of people and wound hundreds in a matter of minutes, with a knife for example.

        7 votes
    2. [2]
      RapidEyeMovement
      Link Parent
      I didn't know how to frame this earlier, But the post on reddit where crazy when sorting by controversial. The amount of Vote manipulation/ astroturfing that was going on their was unreal, I wish...

      I didn't know how to frame this earlier, But the post on reddit where crazy when sorting by controversial. The amount of Vote manipulation/ astroturfing that was going on their was unreal, I wish I had taken a screenshot, the numbers seemed to have flipped now, but any comment on gun control seemed to be -20

      10 votes
      1. trunicated
        Link Parent
        I wonder what makes you think that's astroturfing or vote manipulation instead of a non-vocal segment of users being able to voice their opinions without backlash? I know that personally I try to...

        I wonder what makes you think that's astroturfing or vote manipulation instead of a non-vocal segment of users being able to voice their opinions without backlash? I know that personally I try to avoid any sort of post that I feel will be an echo chamber unless it's a large happening, such as the shooting being discussed here.

        This means that my opinion, both while commenting and voting, isn't represented on a lot of posts simply due to my lack of desire to be personally attacked for my opinions. That also means that when there is a large happening, I'm more likely to take place, which I think can explain (at least in part) what you're seeing with comment scores.

        14 votes
    3. [4]
      Askme_about_penguins
      Link Parent
      I already saw videogames being blamed.

      I already saw videogames being blamed.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        Hypersapien
        Link Parent
        How do they dismiss the fact that it was a tournament for a football video game?

        How do they dismiss the fact that it was a tournament for a football video game?

        9 votes
        1. Petril
          Link Parent
          IDK, I'd be down with blaming American Football.

          IDK, I'd be down with blaming American Football.

          5 votes
      2. Akronymus
        Link Parent
        I am fully expecting gamergate to be unfairly blamed too.

        I am fully expecting gamergate to be unfairly blamed too.

        1 vote
  6. [7]
    Ellimist
    Link
    Unpopular opinion but I believe the audio and video from this needs to be shared far and wide. Maybe when the 2A crowd finally starts to see and hear what these tragedies actually look and sound...

    Unpopular opinion but I believe the audio and video from this needs to be shared far and wide.

    Maybe when the 2A crowd finally starts to see and hear what these tragedies actually look and sound like, rather than what Fox News wants them to see and hear, we'll start to see that side change their tune.

    It's so much easier to hide behind the 2A when you're not confronted with the reality of what its costing innocent people

    13 votes
    1. RapidEyeMovement
      Link Parent
      Umm if they didn't flinch at the Las Vegas shooting, why would they flinch at this?!? My question is if they haven't come to the table yet, should we keep inviting them? should we just go on...

      Umm if they didn't flinch at the Las Vegas shooting, why would they flinch at this?!?

      My question is if they haven't come to the table yet, should we keep inviting them? should we just go on without their input?

      11 votes
    2. Neverland
      Link Parent
      As horrifying as it would have been, the images from Sandy Hook should have been shared for this reason. Let people see the consequences of America's unique gun laws.

      As horrifying as it would have been, the images from Sandy Hook should have been shared for this reason. Let people see the consequences of America's unique gun laws.

      5 votes
    3. [3]
      zendainc
      Link Parent
      A lot of these shooters WANT the publicity. They avoid showing the footage for the same reason that they no longer name the perpetrators. It helps to lower the risk of fame hunting thrill killers.

      A lot of these shooters WANT the publicity. They avoid showing the footage for the same reason that they no longer name the perpetrators. It helps to lower the risk of fame hunting thrill killers.

      2 votes
      1. Ellimist
        Link Parent
        I know. And it makes total sense not to give them the notoriety they seek. But I also have to wonder if hearing and seeing people dying would have any affect on their stance. It's one thing to...

        I know. And it makes total sense not to give them the notoriety they seek.

        But I also have to wonder if hearing and seeing people dying would have any affect on their stance. It's one thing to believe in and defend the 2A. It's another to see just how badly that belief is affecting others. You hear something like that, you see something like that, it's a lot harder to forget it as opposed to just changing the channel from the latest news on the subject

        5 votes
      2. crius
        Link Parent
        I can agree with not sharing their name of face. But the piece of stream in which they're playing, you can see a damn red laser on the chest of a player and begin hearing the gun shoots and people...

        I can agree with not sharing their name of face. But the piece of stream in which they're playing, you can see a damn red laser on the chest of a player and begin hearing the gun shoots and people screaming, running away, should be spread.

        People are desensitized so much that it needs to be something shocking to budge a little their positions on something.

        4 votes
    4. PsychoPitcher
      Link Parent
      I just hope that people don't write it off if it comes out that the shooter was part of a gang. The laser makes me think that's the case but that shouldn't diminish how fucked up this is

      I just hope that people don't write it off if it comes out that the shooter was part of a gang. The laser makes me think that's the case but that shouldn't diminish how fucked up this is

      1 vote
  7. Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    Another day, another mass shooting in the U.S.A...

    Another day, another mass shooting in the U.S.A...

    9 votes
  8. [13]
    laurelthrone
    Link
    Does anyone have a mirror of the deleted Twitch clip?

    Does anyone have a mirror of the deleted Twitch clip?

    7 votes
    1. [12]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      https://livestreamfails.com/post/27783 Laser on the black guy's chest right before the webcam feed is switched. Jesus Christ.

      https://livestreamfails.com/post/27783

      Laser on the black guy's chest right before the webcam feed is switched. Jesus Christ.

      9 votes
      1. Ochre
        Link Parent
        Just a heads up that you can hear the gunshots (and other sounds) even after the video is cut. This was a lot harder to watch/listen to than I thought it would be.

        Just a heads up that you can hear the gunshots (and other sounds) even after the video is cut.

        This was a lot harder to watch/listen to than I thought it would be.

        6 votes
      2. [7]
        zendainc
        Link Parent
        This video seemed almost TOO good. Why did the controller immediately disconnect upon the player being shot?

        This video seemed almost TOO good. Why did the controller immediately disconnect upon the player being shot?

        1 vote
        1. [5]
          determinism
          Link Parent
          What does that mean? I don't have an explanation but I don't see what is implausible about it. Also, I don't follow the reasoning. Assuming that your meaning behind "too good" is that this was...

          This video seemed almost TOO good.

          What does that mean?

          Why did the controller immediately disconnect upon the player being shot?

          I don't have an explanation but I don't see what is implausible about it. Also, I don't follow the reasoning. Assuming that your meaning behind "too good" is that this was staged, why would such an obvious detail be contradictory to expectation?

          6 votes
          1. [4]
            zendainc
            Link Parent
            Oh I'm absolutely not saying it was staged. Maybe edited a bit though, to make it more concise. It just seems to jump immediately to 'controller disconnected', which struck me as a little odd....

            Oh I'm absolutely not saying it was staged. Maybe edited a bit though, to make it more concise. It just seems to jump immediately to 'controller disconnected', which struck me as a little odd. Could be that he dropped the controller and the battery came out or something though.

            1 vote
            1. [3]
              dubteedub
              Link Parent
              The person could have run out of the building holding the controller, bringing it out of range of the console

              The person could have run out of the building holding the controller, bringing it out of range of the console

              6 votes
              1. [2]
                zendainc
                Link Parent
                Ahh now that is something I didn't think about. Good point.

                Ahh now that is something I didn't think about. Good point.

                2 votes
        2. PsychoPitcher
          Link Parent
          I saw it live on twitch. This clip is legit. Controller could have disconnected due to It getting shot It being dropped when the guy got shot (batteries fall out of the wireless one's pretty easy)...

          I saw it live on twitch. This clip is legit. Controller could have disconnected due to

          1. It getting shot

          2. It being dropped when the guy got shot (batteries fall out of the wireless one's pretty easy)

          3. Someone hitting a button in the panic

          4. The other guy running away while he's holding the controller

          5. Someone throwing their controller at the shooter.

          6 votes
      3. [3]
        tux4pres
        Link Parent
        I had never noticed that before when I watched that clip. Is there confirmation that he was shot and if so what is his state?

        I had never noticed that before when I watched that clip. Is there confirmation that he was shot and if so what is his state?

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          teaearlgraycold
          Link Parent
          One person on reddit claimed that someone had been using a laser pointer to annoy players throughout the stream. So it might not be a laser sight.

          One person on reddit claimed that someone had been using a laser pointer to annoy players throughout the stream. So it might not be a laser sight.

          3 votes
          1. tux4pres
            Link Parent
            I certainly hope that is the case, there is a massive difference between knowing someone died and seeing them seconds before they die.

            I certainly hope that is the case, there is a massive difference between knowing someone died and seeing them seconds before they die.

  9. what
    Link
    There's a discussion on CSGO's (another pouplar competitive game) /r/GlobalOffensive subreddit, and I think an interesting point is about security at the event. Since the event was so small...

    There's a discussion on CSGO's (another pouplar competitive game) /r/GlobalOffensive subreddit, and I think an interesting point is about security at the event. Since the event was so small ($1000), they likely couldn't pay for security. A user wrote about security at a CSGO major:

    Yeah I already mentioned it, but when I attended 2018 Boston ELEAGUE Major earlier this year, ELEAGUE did not mess around with their security protocol.
    They made every attendee empty our pockets, go through pat-down, & made us use smaller bags that were handed out by ELEAGUE (to simplify bag-examination for all attendee for all 3 days).
    There were dozens and dozens of security guards at the entrance. I even had a nice casual chat with a Boston police officer patrolling around Agganis Arena (2018 ELEAGUE Major venue). The officer coincidentally mentioned that he was only familiar playing Madden with his son after I asked about what he thought of the CSGO event in front of him.
    But since that was a CSGO Major, the level of security was pretty solid as expected.
    I guess one of few things that Esport event can improve on would be to enforce a line of security guards around the stage staring at the crowd (like they do during a major football/soccer matches).
    But I imagine that is the most expensive option, which is probably why we recently saw such level of security during the World Cup. (https://i.imgur.com/jaC0zs4.jpg).

    Source

    1 vote