30 votes

Daily thread - United States 2021 transition of power - January 8

This thread is posted daily - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.

This is an inherently political thread; please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.

85 comments

  1. [23]
    dubteedub
    (edited )
    Link
    Last night a police officer died from injuries sustained by the angry mob that stormed the Capitol. Other outlets are reporting that the officer was assaulted with a fire extinguisher by the...

    Last night a police officer died from injuries sustained by the angry mob that stormed the Capitol. Other outlets are reporting that the officer was assaulted with a fire extinguisher by the domestic MAGA terrorists. The US Attorney's office just announced they are opening a federal murder charge in the officers death.

    I think the death of a law enforcement officer might actually be enough to push enough Republican officials to support impeachment of Trump over inciting this insurrection.

    FBI and other law enforcement agencies are definitely going to have a fire lit under their asses now that one of their own was murdered by this mob. The Homeland Security Committee Chair is also calling for all those involved to be put on the No-Fly list and barred from any air travel, which is obviously how most of them got to D.C. based on the earlier reporting.

    Honestly, I am surprised that things did not get much much worse on Wednesday. These folks planted pipe bombs in D.C., including at the RNC and DNC. Another guy was arrested with a cooler full of Molotov cocktails ready to go. Some of the men that breached the House chamber were wearing bullet proof plate and came with zip ties suggesting they were intent on taking hostages. There was very clearly members of this group that were prepared for mass violence and things could have gone very bad.

    Finally, I just want to say a big fuck you to the us capitol police. The failures go from top to bottom. Days before the event the Capitol Police rejected offers of federal aid. During the riot some of them took selfies with rioters, some opened barricades for them, others rushed over to literally wave rioters in, others even gave directions to the terrorists to specific lawmaker officers. As of now, the Chief of police and the House and Senate Sergeant at Arms that were in charge of coordinating the efforts have resigned, but it is far from being enough. The police were absolutely complicit in these events and I hope all involved rot in jail for the rest of their miserable lives.

    But they could not find Mr. Schumer’s office. He said they asked a Capitol Police officer, who tried to direct them. But they appeared to have gotten nowhere near the minority’s leader’s office. They ended up smoking a few cigarettes inside the building — “We can smoke in our house,” Aaron said — and one of his friends, who would not give his name, joked that he had gone to the bathroom and not flushed.

    26 votes
    1. [13]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      Thank you for this rundown, dubteedub. One of the things I’ve found frustrating is the tenor of many online and interpersonal conversations about this since it happened, which seem to bury the...

      Thank you for this rundown, dubteedub. One of the things I’ve found frustrating is the tenor of many online and interpersonal conversations about this since it happened, which seem to bury the seriousness of the event underneath much lighter ridicule. Sure, it’s easy to make fun of the guy with face paint and horns, but focusing on the farcical elements of what happened deny the event the gravity it deserves. Five people died. They brought and planted pipe bombs. These are not ha-ha, funny meme moments, and an emphasis on mockery edges out much needed space for genuine condemnation with commensurate weight. Memeing about tragedy as a means of downplaying its significance has been a staple far-right behavior for a long time, and it irks me to see it so normalized and widespread at present.

      25 votes
      1. [2]
        dubteedub
        Link Parent
        Absolutely. This is not a humorous moment. Laughing off Trump's coup efforts is what got us here. We need to take the fascist white supremacist Trump cult deadly seriously. I don't know how many...

        Absolutely. This is not a humorous moment. Laughing off Trump's coup efforts is what got us here. We need to take the fascist white supremacist Trump cult deadly seriously. I don't know how many terror attacks it will take for folks to stop downplaying the threat here, especially now that Trump "conceded" the election last night. Trump's most ardent supporters are only going to double and triple down now.

        One thing that really stuck out to me in the reporting of the riot on Wednesday is how many current/former law enforcement officers and military were part of the mob. Here is one bit from Politico:

        One current Metro D.C. police officer said in a public Facebook post that off-duty police officers and members of the military, who were among the rioters, flashed their badges and I.D. cards as they attempted to overrun the building. “If these people can storm the Capitol building with no regard to punishment, you have to wonder how much they abuse their powers when they put on their uniforms,” the officer wrote.

        White supremacists have been actively infiltrating the military and LEO agencies for decades now to get training, to get weapons, and uphold their value system with violence. This is my biggest fear for the future of the country, more than climate change or anything else.

        17 votes
        1. spit-evil-olive-tips
          Link Parent
          For some historical perspective on this: How Authoritarianism Takes Hold: The invasion of the Capitol was a farce. But it should still terrify us. The lessons of history need to be learned.

          Absolutely. This is not a humorous moment. Laughing off Trump's coup efforts is what got us here.

          For some historical perspective on this:

          How Authoritarianism Takes Hold: The invasion of the Capitol was a farce. But it should still terrify us. The lessons of history need to be learned.

          In 1923, hundreds of Nazis attempted to seize control over the regional government in Bavaria. Their attempt was farcical. They surrounded a beer hall where local leaders were speaking and tried to take them hostage and seize government buildings. They were swiftly repelled by police and their leader, Adolf Hitler, was put on trial for treason. He was essentially given a slap on the wrist, writing his memoirs in prison and being released after nine months. It would be another decade before he unleashed the most hideous and systematic act of mass extermination in human history.

          The “Beer Hall Putsch” was probably never going to succeed, because it was disorganized and the Nazi Party was weak in 1923. But it was a terrifying sign that a far-right element was gathering strength, one that did not respect the existing liberal regime’s right to rule and would use whatever means were at its disposal to take power. Not everyone recognized that sign at the time. The New York Times ran the headline “Hitler Virtually Eliminated” and suggesting that with Hitler’s jail sentence, the courts had put the far right out of commission once and for all.

          15 votes
      2. [10]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        I think it’s possible to overestimate the seriousness too. I try to distinguish between symbolic and concrete action, though it can be tricky in situations like this. Congress is, essentially,...

        I think it’s possible to overestimate the seriousness too.

        I try to distinguish between symbolic and concrete action, though it can be tricky in situations like this.

        Congress is, essentially, people. Its members and staff are what’s important for the functioning of the government. It seems they were scared but not seriously threatened. There were guns but it seems they weren’t used, other than by a cop. The pipe bombs didn’t detonate. In terms of violence, school shootings are far worse. Even within the Capitol, there have been worse attacks on members of Congress.

        But the symbolism is a whole different story. We can compare this to terrorist acts where the publicity and disruption is the point. A major point of terrorist action is getting in the news and making people feel afraid.

        Therefore, I think that picking ourselves up and moving on is healthy, a way to show that the terrorists haven’t won. It’s also important to prosecute the participants to show the consequences of participating in something like this.

        8 votes
        1. [3]
          tindall
          Link Parent
          Congress is also infrastructure. Something a lot of people are glossing over here is the massive impact on document and IT security. There were several photos of people breaking into...

          Congress is, essentially, people.

          Congress is also infrastructure.

          Something a lot of people are glossing over here is the massive impact on document and IT security. There were several photos of people breaking into Congresspeople's offices and ransacking filing cabinets and computers, and I'm sure many more instances which weren't photographed. We don't know if any SCIF was breached, but I can't imagine that wasn't the case.

          Every IoT device in the building is now tainted; same with every computer, router, and even every Ethernet and USB cable, given the existence of cheap (order of $50) and nearly undetectable (at a distance) implants that turn a keyboard or Ethernet cable into a snooping device, lightbulbs with wireless microphones, etc. The entire IT infrastructure of the capitol will have to be overturned in the middle of the already unusual turmoil of this transition.

          15 votes
          1. Deimos
            Link Parent
            At least one laptop was stolen from Pelosi's office: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber/laptop-stolen-from-pelosis-office-during-storming-of-u-s-capitol-says-aide-idUSKBN29D2HA...

            At least one laptop was stolen from Pelosi's office: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber/laptop-stolen-from-pelosis-office-during-storming-of-u-s-capitol-says-aide-idUSKBN29D2HA

            As well as one from Senator Jeff Merkley's, mentioned in that article too.

            A reporter from The Blaze also bragged about coming in and finding a Pelosi staffer's email open and accessible: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/pro-trump-reporter-gloats-over-access-to-fleeing-hill-staffers-computer/

            11 votes
          2. skybrian
            Link Parent
            It's going to be a real mess, I am sure, but I don't have a good idea about how to put it into perspective compared to all the other IT attacks these days. For example, apparently in the...

            It's going to be a real mess, I am sure, but I don't have a good idea about how to put it into perspective compared to all the other IT attacks these days. For example, apparently in the Solarwinds attack, sealed US court records were exposed.

            Much of the business of Congress is public, except of course for the parts that aren't. I haven't read anything about classified material yet, but maybe we will find out later.

            7 votes
        2. dubteedub
          Link Parent
          I strongly disagree. These people came in with pipe bombs, molotov cocktails, guns, and zip ties. Some of them would have taken hostages and likely have killed more people if they had been given...

          I think it’s possible to overestimate the seriousness too.

          ts members and staff are what’s important for the functioning of the government. It seems they were scared but not seriously threatened.

          I strongly disagree. These people came in with pipe bombs, molotov cocktails, guns, and zip ties. Some of them would have taken hostages and likely have killed more people if they had been given the opportunity. Just because no members of Congress of staff were assaulted or killed, doesn't mean that we did not come incredibly close to it and that this was not a serious threat.

          On the fringe message board 8kun, which is popular with QAnon followers, for example, users talked for weeks about a siege of the Capitol, some talking about it like a foregone conclusion. Others simply debated how violent the uprising should be, and if police should be exempt.

          A day before the rally, the investigative journalism website Bellingcat published an article detailing the online convergence of radical conservative groups with QAnon and white supremecist groups leading up to what the president promised would be a “wild protest,” specifically mentioning their online discussion about storming and burning the Capitol and specific threats directed at D.C. government officials and police.

          The Washington Post published a similar article, citing specific posts on the encrypted app Telegram and Parler, a Twitter alternative, about sneaking illegal weapons into the rally. NBC News also published an article highlighting the threats, using research from Advance DemocracyInc., a global research organization that studies disinformation and extremism.

          I agree that the insurrectionists that entered the Capitol should be arrested with the maximum possible penalty, but we should also be talking about repercussions for the government officials, including President Trump, who enabled this and incited the attack.

          14 votes
        3. [2]
          kfwyre
          Link Parent
          I agree that it's definitely possible to overestimate seriousness, but I feel I've seen a lot more of, say, the guy with the podium pulling focus from the guy with the pipe bombs, and not the...

          I agree that it's definitely possible to overestimate seriousness, but I feel I've seen a lot more of, say, the guy with the podium pulling focus from the guy with the pipe bombs, and not the other way around. I just can't ignore the fact that actual pipe bombs in a populated place means we were as close as you can possibly get to mass murder without it actually happening. I definitely don't think we should conflate hypotheticals with actual outcomes, but I also don't think we should gloss over that potentiality simply because it didn't happen. I will say that I'm very glad things didn't turn out as bad as they could have. At the time it was happening, I was expecting far worse.

          Also, like you, my mind went to school shootings (which is an obvious point of reference for me), and I have an interesting parallel in that regard. In one of my now annual active shooter trainings (and expounded on in detail in Dave Cullen's Columbine), the police officer who was leading the training talked about the 2000 massacre at Columbine High School. It was arguably the event that made "school shooting" a household phrase and has become sort of symbolic anchor for the concept itself.

          The officer argued that this framing is actually somewhat misleading, because the killers' plan wasn't primarily to shoot other students. The shooting was actually a secondary part of the killers’ plan, with their primary intent being to murder an entire lunch crowd with bombs they planted in the cafeteria. The guns they used for their now infamous shooting were merely supplementary — intended only to kill the remaining survivors of the blasts. The bombs did not go off as planned however, and, as such, that day ended up far less deadly than they wanted. It feels awful to say this about something so horrific, but it turns out we were actually lucky those events played out the way that they did, because it came breathtakingly close to being something far, far worse.

          While the events in Columbine and the ones at the Capitol have a lot of differences, that is a parallel that chills my blood, and probably helps to explain why this carries such weight for me.

          14 votes
          1. skybrian
            Link Parent
            Other people have posted about evidence that seems to establish intent. At this point I'm just going to admit that the investigation is a fast-moving story and I'm not following it closely enough...

            Other people have posted about evidence that seems to establish intent. At this point I'm just going to admit that the investigation is a fast-moving story and I'm not following it closely enough to say. I expect I'll read a long article about it after more reporting and investigation are done.

            I'll just point out that things can be tricky because weapons have many purposes. They can be symbols and threats as well as weapons, sometimes all at once. They can be used as threats regardless of the wielder's true intent.

            This can make the meaning of terrorist acts tricky to interpret. Bombs can serve multiple purposes even when they go off. It doesn't seem like the Nashville bomber intended to kill people (other than himself), and failed, even though he did put people in danger.

            2 votes
        4. [3]
          streblo
          Link Parent
          I think we need to differentiate seriousness of the event outcome vs. seriousness of the event itself. Given the scenario, I think this is about the best possible outcome. When people are...

          I think it’s possible to overestimate the seriousness too.

          I think we need to differentiate seriousness of the event outcome vs. seriousness of the event itself.

          Given the scenario, I think this is about the best possible outcome. When people are highlighting the seriousness of this they are probably referring to other potential outcomes that we (narrowly?) avoided.

          • If even a handful of people were better equipped and motivated we could be looking at a very different outcome.
          • The lack of screening for hundreds of trespassers is massive. A single terrorist (MAGA or otherwise) could have brought kilograms of explosive into that building.
          • We don't even know if foreign actors have embedded access points into the network or otherwise compromised the cyber security of the Capitol.

          So in terms of potential, I find it hard to overstate the seriousness of the event.

          11 votes
          1. [2]
            skybrian
            Link Parent
            It’s certainly true that it could have been much worse. How to think about that depends on what purpose you’re talking about. Obviously, security around the Capitol needs to be beefed up, and the...

            It’s certainly true that it could have been much worse. How to think about that depends on what purpose you’re talking about.

            Obviously, security around the Capitol needs to be beefed up, and the network entirely rebuilt. Better to be safe than sorry there. On the other hand, the only way to guarantee physical security would probably be for Congress to meet in a bunker, so there are going to be practical tradeoffs rather than guaranteeing perfect safety.

            With respect to prosecuting the participants, it’s important to stick with what they did, not what they might have done. They’ve broken enough laws that it shouldn’t be too hard.

            With respect to the cops’ rules of engagement, focusing on what might have happened is very likely to result in excessive use of force against protesters. For any protest, you could ask what would happen if some of them were well-trained terrorists who knew what they were doing. It’s an argument that could be used to justify just about any use of force by police, and often is. There is a tricky balance to be made there. I suspect that making mistakes in either direction, towards excessive leniency or excessive force, is more common than people are remembering. Sometimes, often, security is lax but nothing too serious happens, but you aren’t going to see it in the news.

            I do think that we should have less sympathy for people who try to break into government buildings, though, regardless of whether we sympathize with their cause. It seems to me like first amendment rights shouldn’t be extended to breaking into places and we shouldn’t have sympathy for this as “civil disobedience” either? There are many ways to get publicity for your cause and it seems like some of them should be beyond the pale, even if nobody is hurt too badly.

            3 votes
            1. streblo
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at here but I want to point out that by emphasizing the seriousness of the Capitol 'storming' I'm not advocating for a 9/11 style response in security...

              Obviously, security around the Capitol needs to be beefed up, and the network entirely rebuilt. Better to be safe than sorry there. On the other hand, the only way to guarantee physical security would probably be for Congress to meet in a bunker, so there are going to be practical tradeoffs rather than guaranteeing perfect safety.

              I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at here but I want to point out that by emphasizing the seriousness of the Capitol 'storming' I'm not advocating for a 9/11 style response in security increase. Having institutions proudly open to the public and on display is an underrated and important part of democracy. My point, and possibly others' as well, is to highlight the potential severity in face of a mounting "was it really that bad" white washing from some. (Not you, I think I understand your concerns here but I've seen people online attempt to gloss over this in such a fashion.)

              With respect to the cops’ rules of engagement, focusing on what might have happened is very likely to result in excessive use of force against protesters. For any protest, you could ask what would happen if some of them were well-trained terrorists who knew what they were doing. It’s an argument that could be used to justify just about any use of force by police, and often is. There is a tricky balance to be made there. I suspect that making mistakes in either direction, towards excessive leniency or excessive force, is more common than people are remembering. Sometimes, often, security is lax but nothing too serious happens, but you aren’t going to see it in the news.

              I never condone violence from police unless it will save lives. I am lucky to come from a country where the police, while they still have problems, have much less violence ingrained in their culture than seems apparent in American police so my perspective of police is probably altogether higher than if I were American. Here, I don't think using their weapons was an option for these officers just because they were so heavily outnumbered and you don't know how many armed people are in the crowd. That said, their jobs were to protect the lives of the congresspeople and if a crowd insists on occupying the same space as those congresspeople then I think using deadly force is justified at some point even if the crowd isn't necessarily violent because you cannot guarantee the safety of your charges otherwise.

              Edit: Obviously there was a weapon discharged but it was only done at one of the last barriers before the crowd was able to reach the media and congresspeople and in my opinion completely justified.

              6 votes
    2. [2]
      nukeman
      Link Parent
      Don’t forget about the men with Flex-cuffs and the actual gallows that had been constructed outside.

      Don’t forget about the men with Flex-cuffs and the actual gallows that had been constructed outside.

      10 votes
      1. dubteedub
        Link Parent
        Yup. I really can't state how close we were to having Congressional staff and/or members taken hostage and executed on livestream. They Were Out for Blood - The men who carried zip ties as they...

        Yup. I really can't state how close we were to having Congressional staff and/or members taken hostage and executed on livestream.

        The guys were carrying flex cuffs, the plastic double restraints often used by police in mass arrest situations. They walked through the Senate chamber with a sense of purpose. They were not dressed in silly costumes but kitted out in full paramilitary regalia: helmets, armor, camo, holsters with sidearms. At least one had a semi-automatic rifle and 11 Molotov cocktails. At least one, unlike nearly every other right-wing rioter photographed that day, wore a mask that obscured his face.

        These are the same guys who, when the windows of the Capitol were broken and entry secured, went in first with what I’d call military-ish precision. They moved with purpose, to the offices of major figures like Nancy Pelosi and then to the Senate floor. What was that purpose? It wasn’t to pose for photos. It was to use those flex cuffs on someone.

        Twitter quote from Reuters reporter:

        I heard at least 3 different rioters at the Capitol say that they hoped to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging him from a Capitol Hill tree as a traitor. It was a common line being repeated. Many more were just talking about how the VP should be executed.

        This was their intent. They view our elected officials are traitors. Anyone that has been even loosely watching the QAnon movement over the last few years knew this was what some of those folks wanted to do. They have been talking about mass executions for literally years.

        10 votes
    3. Cycloneblaze
      Link Parent
      As a tweet I saw recently said... these protestors were let in because they were a white, unfocused right-wing mob, who the police rathered to let do their thing than try to keep them out. That's...

      There was very clearly members of this group that were prepared for mass violence and things could have gone very bad.

      As a tweet I saw recently said... these protestors were let in because they were a white, unfocused right-wing mob, who the police rathered to let do their thing than try to keep them out. That's enough of a failure as it is, but what if there had been some actually competent, organised actors in there? Foreign agents disguised as alt-righters? It would have been incredibly easy to join this mob, and they could have wreaked havoc - stolen classified information, taken hostages, killed lawmakers obviously.

      Even worse, now every other country knows just how easy it is to get into a secure government location in the US. Just LARP as a Trumpist nutter in a crowd, and they'll let you in. This could have been so much worse, but it's already horrifically bad. I don't think the damage to the USA's reputation as a superpower overseas can be overstated.

      8 votes
    4. [2]
      streblo
      Link Parent
      Yea it could have been much, much worse. I hope that the officers found to be fraternizing or outright aiding insurrectionists at least lose their jobs if not get jail time. However, I would like...

      Yea it could have been much, much worse.

      I hope that the officers found to be fraternizing or outright aiding insurrectionists at least lose their jobs if not get jail time. However, I would like to caution how easy it is to take a 12 second video clip out of context. The first viral video that made waves of an officer "letting people in" -- you can clearly see that the barrier has already been breached and there are people behind the officer including the camera person.

      From what I witnessed most officers were doing the best they could with what they had. This was a massive failure at the leadership level which was, at best, incompetence. I can almost guarantee if BLM had a planned protest with people flying in from all over the country there would tanks and police with automatic weapons on the Capitol lawn.

      7 votes
      1. Micycle_the_Bichael
        Link Parent
        We don't need to ask that question. We saw what happens when there are BLM protests in DC and the answer WAS tear gas and rubber bullets. It happened.

        We don't need to ask that question. We saw what happens when there are BLM protests in DC and the answer WAS tear gas and rubber bullets. It happened.

        7 votes
    5. [4]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      Did the police officer try to direct him or try to misdirect him? Intent isn’t that easy to determine. I suspect this is partly a matter of having not enough cops and partly a matter of cops...

      Did the police officer try to direct him or try to misdirect him? Intent isn’t that easy to determine.

      I suspect this is partly a matter of having not enough cops and partly a matter of cops trying not to get blamed for excessive use of force, given the current political climate that ensures they will be blamed whenever possible.

      It’s weird that nobody seems to blame them for killing that woman though.

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        dubteedub
        Link Parent
        Given all the other videos and evidence out there of cops being friendly with the rioters (which I linked above), I am not going to give this cop the benefit of the doubt. I disagree. This seems...

        Did the police officer try to direct him or try to misdirect him?

        Given all the other videos and evidence out there of cops being friendly with the rioters (which I linked above), I am not going to give this cop the benefit of the doubt.

        I suspect this is partly a matter of having not enough cops and partly a matter of cops trying not to get blamed for excessive use of force, given the current political climate that ensures they will be blamed whenever possible.

        I disagree. This seems to be a fundamental failure to recognize the dangers of angry white people. None of the reporting I read indicates there was a fear of police brutality or excessive force.

        It’s weird that nobody seems to blame them for killing that woman though.

        Because she was a terrorist who stuck her head through a broken window after receiving many many orders to back off and stand down by police officers with their guns drawn. She was trying to breach one of the last entryways protecting our Congressional officials.

        NSFL video - https://twitter.com/hail_to_earth/status/1347093665454424064

        Got shot by secret service, while jumping possibly the last barrier between her mob and the officials in the capitol.

        I blame Trump, Cruz, Hawley, and the right-wing media ecosystem on her death. Not the cops.

        12 votes
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. dubteedub
            Link Parent
            Oh yeah, 100%. I think it was absolutely justified and thought that the live ammo would have come out much earlier. edit: The Washington Post just released new video of the footage that shows just...

            She didn't stick her head through a window. She was climbing through the window. She wasn't just "taking a look", she was actively breaching the House Chamber where the Vice President and other members were being evacuated.

            Oh yeah, 100%. I think it was absolutely justified and thought that the live ammo would have come out much earlier.

            edit: The Washington Post just released new video of the footage that shows just how close the terrorists came to our elected officials.

            A second clip, recorded approximately three minutes before the shooting, appears to show lawmakers and officials in the Speaker’s Lobby, just yards from Babbitt and others trying to get through. Rep. James P. McGovern (D-Mass.), the chairman of the House Rules Committee, was one of those present, a spokesperson confirmed.

            7 votes
      2. wycy
        Link Parent
        The right would never go so far as to blame an officer for excessive use of force, but I do get the sense that Fox is working to make that woman into a martyr for the cause. I can see hints of...

        It’s weird that nobody seems to blame them for killing that woman though.

        The right would never go so far as to blame an officer for excessive use of force, but I do get the sense that Fox is working to make that woman into a martyr for the cause. I can see hints of that as a developing narrative, but it doesn't appear to be in full swing yet.

        4 votes
  2. [14]
    Gaywallet
    Link
    Trump permanently suspended from Twitter
    15 votes
    1. [7]
      Kuromantis
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I wonder if he might join an overtly right-wing/"free-speech" platform like Parler to keep speaking, and how many more people (both his followers and other right-wing politicians) would follow him...

      I wonder if he might join an overtly right-wing/"free-speech" platform like Parler to keep speaking, and how many more people (both his followers and other right-wing politicians) would follow him there. Would be a nice way to test deplatforming theory at best and a way to segregate his supporters online as well as off-line at worst.

      Edit: Speedrun!

      7 votes
      1. [6]
        Amarok
        Link Parent
        Parler is buried right now, everyone is active over there and certainly expecting him to go there. If he does, and actually speaks his mind on that platform, how much trouble will it cause? We...

        Parler is buried right now, everyone is active over there and certainly expecting him to go there.

        If he does, and actually speaks his mind on that platform, how much trouble will it cause? We already know their servers can't handle the traffic, though. He couldn't sign up right now if he wanted to.

        2 votes
        1. [4]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Also worth noting is that Apple just threatened to ban Parler, unless they clean up their act in the next 24hrs (which we know they won't). So even if Trump does migrate there, Parler is very...

          Also worth noting is that Apple just threatened to ban Parler, unless they clean up their act in the next 24hrs (which we know they won't). So even if Trump does migrate there, Parler is very likely about to lose a significant portion of its audience on mobile.

          8 votes
          1. [3]
            RapidEyeMovement
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I think Google has removed Parler from the play store, I cannot find it. Can anyone else confirm? Edit: Confirmed Google removed it Also see post that AWS has removed them for breaking terms of...

            I think Google has removed Parler from the play store, I cannot find it. Can anyone else confirm?

            Edit:
            Confirmed Google removed it

            Also see post that AWS has removed them for breaking terms of service

            7 votes
        2. Kuromantis
          Link Parent
          Apparently he already did, but yeah, Parler is down.

          We already know their servers can't handle the traffic, though. He couldn't sign up right now if he wanted to.

          Apparently he already did, but yeah, Parler is down.

          2 votes
    2. stu2b50
      Link Parent
      I extract great joy from imagining his frustration, especially now that all and any avenues of removing S. 230 are gone (not that that would have prevented him from being banned - if anything, it...

      I extract great joy from imagining his frustration, especially now that all and any avenues of removing S. 230 are gone (not that that would have prevented him from being banned - if anything, it would immediately prompt every social media site to ban him)

      3 votes
    3. [6]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [5]
        Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        The link details the suspension reasons.

        The link details the suspension reasons.

        4 votes
        1. SantalBlush
          Link Parent
          I give them credit for their analysis of his recent tweets, and for calling out his vague language as another attempt to mobilize his supporters to violence. His fans won't be satisfied, but no...

          I give them credit for their analysis of his recent tweets, and for calling out his vague language as another attempt to mobilize his supporters to violence. His fans won't be satisfied, but no explanation would satisfy them anyway.

          3 votes
        2. [4]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [2]
            Deimos
            Link Parent
            The first tweet in the chain links to a separate blog post too with some more detail, if you didn't click through to that: https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

            The first tweet in the chain links to a separate blog post too with some more detail, if you didn't click through to that: https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

            4 votes
            1. Amarok
              Link Parent
              Ah, that's what I missed, thanks!

              Ah, that's what I missed, thanks!

              2 votes
  3. [2]
    Gaywallet
    Link
    The Journey of Ashley Babbitt
    14 votes
    1. Parliament
      Link Parent
      Thank you. This is one of the most fascinating articles I've read about the insurrection. That synchronized video of her getting shot is especially jarring.

      Thank you. This is one of the most fascinating articles I've read about the insurrection. That synchronized video of her getting shot is especially jarring.

      7 votes
  4. [6]
    Deimos
    Link
    Richard Barnett, the man photographed with his foot up on Nancy Pelosi's desk (who also stole some mail and justified it by saying he left a quarter, so it wasn't stealing), has been arrested and...

    Richard Barnett, the man photographed with his foot up on Nancy Pelosi's desk (who also stole some mail and justified it by saying he left a quarter, so it wasn't stealing), has been arrested and charged with three felonies.

    13 votes
    1. [5]
      suspended
      Link Parent
      What did any of these people expect was going to happen? The idiocy is unimaginable!

      What did any of these people expect was going to happen? The idiocy is unimaginable!

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        Thrabalen
        Link Parent
        They expected not to be punished because they thought they were going to win CWII.

        They expected not to be punished because they thought they were going to win CWII.

        6 votes
        1. [3]
          suspended
          Link Parent
          Exactly. How can these people be this dumb?

          Exactly. How can these people be this dumb?

          1. [2]
            MonkeyPants
            Link Parent
            I wonder if those arrested will be pardoned on Trumps last day...

            I wonder if those arrested will be pardoned on Trumps last day...

            1. suspended
              Link Parent
              His incoming second impeachment could throw a monkey wrench in this whole thing as well.

              His incoming second impeachment could throw a monkey wrench in this whole thing as well.

  5. emdash
    Link
    Goddamn. Is it possible to tell a country to collectively shut the fuck up? And I'm doubly-sick of the "this is what third world countries do" and "the rest of the world is watching" takes. It's...
    • Exemplary

    Goddamn. Is it possible to tell a country to collectively shut the fuck up? And I'm doubly-sick of the "this is what third world countries do" and "the rest of the world is watching" takes.

    It's as if these people think us non-U.S. people haven't been forced to pay attention to the ongoing shit show for the last 4+ years that is the socio-political-economic and moral decline of the United States—and that you're somehow just another country that gets a bit of attention when the worst stuff happens, while evangelising about your sycophantic delusions around being "an experiment in democracy" and "the best country in the world" the rest of the time.

    No, thanks to your intentionally outward-projecting, aggressive, foreign policy; your country has made the rest of us suffer through every moment of this, and dragged us all through this bullshit for the last four years, worsened an international pandemic that would probably be a lot easier to manage without the U.S. fucking it up at every step, and—in lighter times—been the butt of jokes for half a decade.

    Rant over. I have nothing against most Americans (but you could all tone down the free speech and gun stuff though), just the 70 million+ idiots who voted for this clown.

    8 votes
  6. [3]
    wycy
    Link
    I watched a couple hours of Fox News last night and they're working full-time to (a) make excuses for the terrorism, (b) create a "both sides" narrative that equates the insurrection with the BLM...

    I watched a couple hours of Fox News last night and they're working full-time to (a) make excuses for the terrorism, (b) create a "both sides" narrative that equates the insurrection with the BLM protests, (c) create a hypocrisy narrative using misleading clips of Biden/Pelosi to make it look like they've also been encouraging violence all along, (d) spread conspiracy theories about how this was really an antifa plot to make Trumpists look bad, and (e) distract with other news stories (can you believe Anderson Cooper may have made fun of Olive Garden?).

    It was depressing to watch. The insurrection will all be forgiven by the right in a few weeks as Fox continues to work it.

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      Parliament
      Link Parent
      They've also been using the age old technique of just covering completely unrelated and unimportant news. I turned it on this morning to see discussion about how Biden will raise taxes once he...

      They've also been using the age old technique of just covering completely unrelated and unimportant news. I turned it on this morning to see discussion about how Biden will raise taxes once he takes office.

      10 votes
      1. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. Parliament
          Link Parent
          Sunset provisions are so manipulative.

          Sunset provisions are so manipulative.

          2 votes
  7. [2]
    spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    Alabama AG leads nonprofit that helped organize march at Capitol The "Rule of Law Defense Fund" being involved in organizing and funding an armed insurrection is just too much.

    Alabama AG leads nonprofit that helped organize march at Capitol

    Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall plays a critical role in the group that helped organize the protest and rally that preceded the riots, attack and attempted insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

    Marshall leads the Republican Attorneys General Association’s dark-money nonprofit Rule of Law Defense Fund, which is listed as a participating organization for the March to Save America on the march’s website, as are the groups Stop the Steal, Tea Party Patriots and Turning Point Action.

    “I’m calling for the Rule of Law Defense Fund with an important message,” the robocall stated, according to Documented. “The march to save America is tomorrow in Washington D.C. at the Ellipse in President’s Park between E St. and Constitution Avenue on the south side of the White House, with doors opening at 7:00 a.m. At 1:00 p.m., we will march to the Capitol building and call on Congress to stop the steal. We are hoping patriots like you will join us to continue to fight to protect the integrity of our elections. For more information, visit MarchtoSaveAmerica.com. This call is paid for and authorized by the Rule of Law Defense Fund, 202-796-5838.”

    The "Rule of Law Defense Fund" being involved in organizing and funding an armed insurrection is just too much.

    9 votes
    1. Amarok
      Link Parent
      Nobody does doublespeak as well as America. Eat your heart out, CCP. :P

      Nobody does doublespeak as well as America. Eat your heart out, CCP. :P

      4 votes
  8. [3]
    Icarus
    Link
    Apple Has Threatened To Ban Parler From The App Store
    9 votes
    1. [2]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Google removed Parler now too (from a thread above): https://mobile.twitter.com/viaCristiano/status/1347705178699558912
      3 votes
      1. cfabbro
        Link Parent
        APKMirror has apparently even removed all links and files associated with Parler now too: https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/parler-llc/parler/ What it looked like earlier today:...

        APKMirror has apparently even removed all links and files associated with Parler now too:
        https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/parler-llc/parler/

        What it looked like earlier today:
        https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xfi8mBC5MpYJ:https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/parler-llc/parler/

        4 votes
  9. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    Some related Justice.gov press releases: Man Arrested for Illegally Entering Office of Speaker of the House Alabama Man Charged With Possession of Eleven Molotov Cocktails Found Near Protest at...
    9 votes
  10. [13]
    Amarok
    Link
    In other news, now we know those fears about intelligence leaks were right on target. Laptop stolen from Pelosi's office during storming of US capitol Not just the one laptop, too. Other news...

    In other news, now we know those fears about intelligence leaks were right on target.

    Not just the one laptop, too. Other news stories reporting several devices are missing.

    "Boris, what did you get from glorious people's uprising at capitol?"

    "Ivan, I finish our late christmas shopping. Bag of USB keys, four laptops, pallet of tablets. I place in big metal cage until we finish breaking GPS. MAGA hat best disguise ever, protestors think I am from Kentucky."

    7 votes
    1. [12]
      Amarok
      Link Parent
      This part rankles me. C'mon, guys. Mandatory domain policy with nasty passwords and a five minute lock. If I can do that where I work, so can you. Pelosi was downstairs for like an hour in...

      This part rankles me.

      One reporter with the right-wing outlet Blaze posted a photograph of what purported to be a computer from Pelosi’s office with emails “still on the screen.”

      C'mon, guys. Mandatory domain policy with nasty passwords and a five minute lock. If I can do that where I work, so can you. Pelosi was downstairs for like an hour in session. How is that thing still unlocked?

      I'm sure Pelosi's password was there on a sticky note anyway. :P

      8 votes
      1. [11]
        Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        Remember, the people running our country are the same people providing us with quotes like, "the internet is a series of tubes." These people are not technically competent.

        Remember, the people running our country are the same people providing us with quotes like, "the internet is a series of tubes." These people are not technically competent.

        9 votes
        1. [10]
          tindall
          Link Parent
          And, apparently, they fail to employ competent technical staff, which is much more concerning to me.

          And, apparently, they fail to employ competent technical staff, which is much more concerning to me.

          9 votes
          1. [2]
            Gaywallet
            Link Parent
            To be fair, some of them absolutely are. Tara McGowan is a good example of this. The problem is that they often have too large of egos to listen to what these people are telling them to do when it...

            To be fair, some of them absolutely are. Tara McGowan is a good example of this. The problem is that they often have too large of egos to listen to what these people are telling them to do when it comes to anything but being re-elected.

            I find it incredibly upsetting that each representative in congress does not have an inner-circle of advisers who they turn to for fields that they do not have expertise in. I can't imagine even thinking that I have the correct take on things I do not understand.

            5 votes
            1. tindall
              Link Parent
              It's probably a similar line of thought to whatever gives someone the confidence to stand up and say, "I can represent the views of 1/nth of a state, vote for me", unfortunately.

              It's probably a similar line of thought to whatever gives someone the confidence to stand up and say, "I can represent the views of 1/nth of a state, vote for me", unfortunately.

              6 votes
          2. [6]
            streblo
            Link Parent
            I don't think that's necessarily true, see: https://twitter.com/neurovagrant/status/1346964347684179970 That said, I imagine it's hard to enforce things like password security when the people...

            I don't think that's necessarily true, see: https://twitter.com/neurovagrant/status/1346964347684179970

            That said, I imagine it's hard to enforce things like password security when the people being ultimately elected get to write their own IT policy albeit in a roundabout manner.

            2 votes
            1. [5]
              tindall
              Link Parent
              Yeah, there definitely are good IT folks there. It's just that, as you say, those people don't have the freedom they need to enforce good internal policies, like 5-min timeouts, etc.

              Yeah, there definitely are good IT folks there. It's just that, as you say, those people don't have the freedom they need to enforce good internal policies, like 5-min timeouts, etc.

              1. [4]
                Amarok
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                They really should be on to biometrics, not just passwords. It's easier than typing a password so the congress will love it and not push back.

                They really should be on to biometrics, not just passwords. It's easier than typing a password so the congress will love it and not push back.

                2 votes
                1. [3]
                  streblo
                  Link Parent
                  FYI this is the kind of language that contributes to normalizing violence against elected officials.

                  congresscritters

                  FYI this is the kind of language that contributes to normalizing violence against elected officials.

                  8 votes
                  1. [2]
                    Amarok
                    Link Parent
                    I have a hard time seeing how a cuddly term like that incites violence, but I'll take it out for you.

                    I have a hard time seeing how a cuddly term like that incites violence, but I'll take it out for you.

                    4 votes
                    1. streblo
                      Link Parent
                      It's literally dehumanizing people. I know that's not what you intended but language is powerful, it shapes and colours our perceptions of the world.

                      It's literally dehumanizing people. I know that's not what you intended but language is powerful, it shapes and colours our perceptions of the world.

                      4 votes
  11. [6]
    dubteedub
    Link
    In addition to the woman who was shot by police breaking into the House chambers and the police officer who was assaulted, here are some updates about two of the three other deaths at the Capitol...

    In addition to the woman who was shot by police breaking into the House chambers and the police officer who was assaulted, here are some updates about two of the three other deaths at the Capitol on Wednesday.

    So one woman who was carrying around a Gadsen "Dont Tread on Me" flag got trampled to death and another guy who posted numerous violent messages on social media accidentally tasered himself and caused him to die of a heart attack.

    6 votes
    1. [5]
      suspended
      Link Parent
      Are you talking about the Capitol cop who was dragged into a crowd and beaten to death with a fire extinguisher?

      the police officer who was assaulted

      Are you talking about the Capitol cop who was dragged into a crowd and beaten to death with a fire extinguisher?

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        dubteedub
        Link Parent
        Yes, the one I talked about in this post at the top of the page https://tildes.net/~news/ufk/daily_thread_united_states_2021_transition_of_power_january_8#comment-61pd
        5 votes
  12. mono
    Link
    Derrick Evans, the newly elected West Virginia state delegate who filmed himself storming the Capitol, has been charged with entering a restricted area by D.C. District Attorney. A great excerpt...

    Derrick Evans, the newly elected West Virginia state delegate who filmed himself storming the Capitol, has been charged with entering a restricted area by D.C. District Attorney.

    A great excerpt from the article:

    In a criminal complaint released Friday, an FBI agent wrote he identified Evans as the person in the live-streamed video by comparing the voice to the lawmaker's voice in a campaign video. In addition, the agent wrote, "Evans identifies himself by first and last name in the video recording the offense."

    6 votes
  13. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    Looks like YouTube finally removed the video Rudy Giuliani tweeted earlier today: Which now results in:

    Looks like YouTube finally removed the video Rudy Giuliani tweeted earlier today:

    WHAT REALLY HAPPENED On January 6th?

    My assessment, my analysis, my take, HERE: https://youtu.be/BwSxVvRFMJA

    Which now results in:

    This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Community Guidelines.

    5 votes
  14. skybrian
    Link
    MAGA World Is Splintering

    MAGA World Is Splintering

    Over the past two days, Trump loyalists have been bickering online over whether to take credit for and celebrate their most dramatic action yet, or distance themselves from the scene by calling up familiar conspiracy theories to explain it away. Some may genuinely believe, as they say, that paid “crisis actors” are responsible. Many don’t seem to know what they believe, or what is most savvy to present, and pivot from post to post. Still others, like Gray, are consistently frustrated and outraged that anybody on their side wouldn’t be proud of what happened Wednesday afternoon. “The blue-check conservatives, all the popular ones, put ‘1776’ in their bios and tweet about how it’s time for patriots to stand up and fight,” he told me. “Then they turn around and condemn patriots doing exactly that.”

    5 votes
  15. emdash
    Link
    If you're a subscriber to the Dithering.fm podcast, Ben & John had a good episode (Twitter and Trump) where they debated the merits and pitfalls of technology platforms banning...

    If you're a subscriber to the Dithering.fm podcast, Ben & John had a good episode (Twitter and Trump) where they debated the merits and pitfalls of technology platforms banning instigators/proponents of democratic suppression, while wrestling with the problems it presents when these big corporations display unilateral power in suppressing speech on their platforms.

    4 votes
  16. spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    Two Seattle police officers are on administrative leave after flying to DC to participate in the mob SPD's "Office of Police Accountability" is an absolute joke, I'll be shocked if anything comes...

    Two Seattle police officers are on administrative leave after flying to DC to participate in the mob

    SPD's "Office of Police Accountability" is an absolute joke, I'll be shocked if anything comes of this.

    Meanwhile, the head of the Seattle police union (and frequent Fox News guest commentator) is retweeting conspiracy theories from Andy Ngo about Black Lives Matter being actually the ones behind the riot in DC.

    4 votes
  17. Eabryt
    Link
    Just a heads up @Deimos, you have some dangling new lines.

    Just a heads up @Deimos, you have some dangling new lines.

    2 votes