Just like many stories similar to this one, this appears to be a meaningless mistake, not malice. This has nothing to do with Firefox or Asahi Linux. It has to do with the user agent looking...
Just like many stories similar to this one, this appears to be a meaningless mistake, not malice. This has nothing to do with Firefox or Asahi Linux. It has to do with the user agent looking similar to a TV. Likely this was put in place to fix an issue for that TV or mobile devices. This story is more of a “user agent strings are meaningless” than “Google bad”.
Also, Google does not care about a niche this small. Writing the post-it for the user story would already cost more than whatever they might gain from this action.
Also, Google does not care about a niche this small. Writing the post-it for the user story would already cost more than whatever they might gain from this action.
Given this comment from yesterday's anti-trust discussion: I'm picturing the scrum board they put the post-it on would be fed from a spool of paper at one end and into a shredder running...
Given this comment from yesterday's anti-trust discussion:
Chat logs delete after 24 hours or 30 days when history is turned on. Emails delete after a month
I'm picturing the scrum board they put the post-it on would be fed from a spool of paper at one end and into a shredder running continuously at a low rate at the other.
they were a good idea but pretty much abused during all of the web's lifetime. We really need to stop relying on user agents for anything more than basic telemetry.
they were a good idea but pretty much abused during all of the web's lifetime. We really need to stop relying on user agents for anything more than basic telemetry.
Look, Google has (at least accidentally) screwed up Firefox many times. But doesn’t Asahi Linux barely work for normal stuff like browsing the web and decoding H264? This seems like a non story.
Look, Google has (at least accidentally) screwed up Firefox many times. But doesn’t Asahi Linux barely work for normal stuff like browsing the web and decoding H264? This seems like a non story.
I have it installed on my M1, and it’s pretty much completely functional, honestly more so for me than macOS… until I updated it and now the screen is blank after login :) I probably pulled in...
I have it installed on my M1, and it’s pretty much completely functional, honestly more so for me than macOS… until I updated it and now the screen is blank after login :)
I probably pulled in some wrong package or missed a post-install step.
It might be missing hardware acceleration and stuff. I ran it briefly to try it out but the screen was stuck at max brightness because there just wasn't a way to control it yet (IDK if it works...
It might be missing hardware acceleration and stuff. I ran it briefly to try it out but the screen was stuck at max brightness because there just wasn't a way to control it yet (IDK if it works now?). That was an almost immediate deal breaker.
It's a ton better now, for sure. But I have come to appreciate stability in my computing experience too much to want to play with a bleeding edge setup like Asahi any more. I have just stuck to...
It's a ton better now, for sure. But I have come to appreciate stability in my computing experience too much to want to play with a bleeding edge setup like Asahi any more. I have just stuck to MacOS, and I'm happier for it.
At work I’m writing “bleeding edge” software. My operating system needs to be stable because I can’t tolerate any trouble from it on top of my own code’s BS. Debian would be fine in this regard...
At work I’m writing “bleeding edge” software. My operating system needs to be stable because I can’t tolerate any trouble from it on top of my own code’s BS. Debian would be fine in this regard but I want the Apple Silicon battery life so I’m using MacOS.
To be fair the battery life is pretty solid on Asahi, although it's obviously not as good as MacOS. The support for all of apple's aggressive power saving features just isn't there, so you don't...
To be fair the battery life is pretty solid on Asahi, although it's obviously not as good as MacOS. The support for all of apple's aggressive power saving features just isn't there, so you don't get things like decent suspend, or sensible keyboard backlight settings. Still, it's been fun to play with, and I may yet go back, as I do still massively prefer the customisability of a Linux install.
Ah yes, reminds me of when Google Docs/Sheets would break periodically on Firefox/Linux and it would work magically the instant I switched the UA to Chrome/anything.
Ah yes, reminds me of when Google Docs/Sheets would break periodically on Firefox/Linux and it would work magically the instant I switched the UA to Chrome/anything.
Instead of playing this cynical and duplicitous game, let me suggest a very simple way to Google: Take YouTube off as a website and only provide that service through apps for Android, Desktop,...
Instead of playing this cynical and duplicitous game, let me suggest a very simple way to Google: Take YouTube off as a website and only provide that service through apps for Android, Desktop, etc.
The web was built primarily for hypertext and images anyway, whoever thought plugging in the codecs and DRMs to it and watching videos is a great idea?
Maybe this idea sounds preposterous to some and I'm an extremely miniscule minority voicing this opinion here but whatever happened to the single responsibility principle (SRP)? Our browser apps need to be more leaner and more focused.
I don't like apps. They can run in the background and do stuff on your device (although limited by permissions, but still). I use almost everything exclusively through web apps - the only apps I...
I don't like apps. They can run in the background and do stuff on your device (although limited by permissions, but still). I use almost everything exclusively through web apps - the only apps I download are for things that I need to use offline. I really hope web apps don't get deprecated. The popular taxi service in my country has a web version, and it looks like it's not being maintained, because it slowly keeps breaking more and more. Their mobile app is a huge bloated superapp with ads and tracking. I don't want to install that, I just want to use a website.
For whatever it’s worth, iOS keeps a pretty short leash on background tasks. Nothing is allowed to continually run — they’re tasks, not processes, and as such are expected to start up, do whatever...
For whatever it’s worth, iOS keeps a pretty short leash on background tasks. Nothing is allowed to continually run — they’re tasks, not processes, and as such are expected to start up, do whatever it is they need to do, and quit as quickly as possible.
It also keeps track of resource consumption and frequency, and so tasks that eat too much CPU, memory, or bandwidth, request to run too often, or don’t finish their work in a timely manner get penalized and are run less frequently. The worst offenders may barely get run at all.
I honestly would like to have an option for background processes on desktop OSes to be treated this way, with a list allowing for exceptions where necessary. Most things don’t actually have a good reason to always be running.
You might be interested in this neat OSX project, which lets you force non-focused applications into sleep. https://github.com/omikun/ForceNap There are other similar ones that do more monitoring...
I honestly would like to have an option for background processes on desktop OSes to be treated this way
You might be interested in this neat OSX project, which lets you force non-focused applications into sleep.
That exact thing applies to browser too which is also a desktop app, it's not the gigantic operating system that some people believe it to be or want it to be, at least not yet. On the other side...
I don't like apps. They can run in the background and do stuff on your device
That exact thing applies to browser too which is also a desktop app, it's not the gigantic operating system that some people believe it to be or want it to be, at least not yet.
I use almost everything exclusively through web apps - the only apps I download are for things that I need to use offline.
On the other side of the fence, there are people like me who don't want the slightest bloat in my browsing experience which is mostly intended for reading hypertext documents and utilitarian sites. The only extension (app) I use is ublock origin which is necessary to reduce cruft.
Why should those like me seeking a minimalist/utilitarian workflow suffer from all the bloat, cruft and updates needed to sustain a "browser app store" ecosystem that I never even use? And I don't think I'm the only one in this regard (the massive popularity of utilitarian websites like tildes, hacker news and old reddit is blessed proof of that). Going forward, I think we need a parting of ways where the current browser paradigm is at least forked into two versions - one for those of us who need a stable and time-tested version of the utilitarian web, and one for those who want to live on the cutting edge and bloat themselves with all the apps, videos, DRMs, etc.
It is already like that, the difference is that you are not entitled to the existence of native application for any given app. The reality is that weighing the pro and cons, the people who prefer...
I think we need a parting of ways where the current browser paradigm is at least forked into two versions - one for those of us who need a stable and time-tested version of the utilitarian web, and one for those who want to live on the cutting edge and bloat themselves with all the apps, videos, DRMs, etc.
It is already like that, the difference is that you are not entitled to the existence of native application for any given app. The reality is that weighing the pro and cons, the people who prefer desktop applications for light tasks is a small and dwindling market, and many developers will not try to serve that market. It is what it is and you just have to accept it.
I heard this same refrain about gopher back in the 90s. While I personally think this is not going to go anywhere, you’re not alone — I bet you would be very interested in the Gemini protocol....
I heard this same refrain about gopher back in the 90s. While I personally think this is not going to go anywhere, you’re not alone — I bet you would be very interested in the Gemini protocol.
Please, God, no. You typically can't install essential add-ons like AdBlock or SponsorBlock or UI Enhancers for dedicated apps. And any Desktop app they made for YouTube would likely be terrible...
Take YouTube off as a website and only provide that service through apps for Android, Desktop, etc.
Please, God, no. You typically can't install essential add-ons like AdBlock or SponsorBlock or UI Enhancers for dedicated apps. And any Desktop app they made for YouTube would likely be terrible as well, if their mobile apps are anything to go by. It's why I still view almost every YouTube video I watch on mobile in Safari, rather than in their iOS app.
It would be nice if they opened up their API for paid users, allowing development of third party apps that integrate those things you mention better than a browser extension can. Spotify used to...
It would be nice if they opened up their API for paid users, allowing development of third party apps that integrate those things you mention better than a browser extension can.
Spotify used to be like this, and there were a few third party clients paid users could use in place of the official client. I was building one myself until they pulled support for their library/API without a proper replacement.
It would be nice if I could shoot rainbows out my arse, but that's about as likely to happen as Google opening up their dedicated YouTube apps to third-party extensions... especially ones that...
It would be nice if I could shoot rainbows out my arse, but that's about as likely to happen as Google opening up their dedicated YouTube apps to third-party extensions... especially ones that would allow us to block ads, their major revenue source. ;)
well, started with ShareYourWorld in 1997. but if you meant the tech involved, I believe that was Macromedia in 1995 which would develop the shockwave player (crazy how fast tech moves when people...
whoever thought plugging in the codecs and DRMs to it and watching videos is a great idea?
well, started with ShareYourWorld in 1997. but if you meant the tech involved, I believe that was Macromedia in 1995 which would develop the shockwave player (crazy how fast tech moves when people today would not hear of that but it was pretty much every other website in the 2000's)
Why should those like me seeking a minimalist/utilitarian workflow suffer from all the bloat, cruft and updates needed to sustain a "browser app store" ecosystem that I never even use?
To be fair, ,it's easier to strip out features than to add on major ones. There are extensions that can remove any and all Javascript operations, and then there are native features like Firefox's reading mode that only delievers the raw text to digest.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some more niche browser promising such a minimalst experience out of the box
I would absolutely take a well made native desktop app over the current YouTube experience, if that were an officially supported option. For several years now YouTube has had many of the rough...
I would absolutely take a well made native desktop app over the current YouTube experience, if that were an officially supported option. For several years now YouTube has had many of the rough edges endemic to complex web apps (though admittedly, not to anywhere near the degree some have).
Even now I have YouTube “installed” as a PWA so it kinda lives in its own little world and isn’t mucking up my browser tabs. It also helps with watch history pollution since the PWA and my general web browsers are signed into different Google accounts.
Just like many stories similar to this one, this appears to be a meaningless mistake, not malice. This has nothing to do with Firefox or Asahi Linux. It has to do with the user agent looking similar to a TV. Likely this was put in place to fix an issue for that TV or mobile devices. This story is more of a “user agent strings are meaningless” than “Google bad”.
Not to mention Asahi Linux is already a niche within a niche in terms of users, you can pretty much expect to be dealing with stuff like this.
Also, Google does not care about a niche this small. Writing the post-it for the user story would already cost more than whatever they might gain from this action.
Given this comment from yesterday's anti-trust discussion:
I'm picturing the scrum board they put the post-it on would be fed from a spool of paper at one end and into a shredder running continuously at a low rate at the other.
they were a good idea but pretty much abused during all of the web's lifetime. We really need to stop relying on user agents for anything more than basic telemetry.
Look, Google has (at least accidentally) screwed up Firefox many times. But doesn’t Asahi Linux barely work for normal stuff like browsing the web and decoding H264? This seems like a non story.
I have it installed on my M1, and it’s pretty much completely functional, honestly more so for me than macOS… until I updated it and now the screen is blank after login :)
I probably pulled in some wrong package or missed a post-install step.
Haven’t had the time to wipe and reinstall yet
It might be missing hardware acceleration and stuff. I ran it briefly to try it out but the screen was stuck at max brightness because there just wasn't a way to control it yet (IDK if it works now?). That was an almost immediate deal breaker.
It's a ton better now, for sure. But I have come to appreciate stability in my computing experience too much to want to play with a bleeding edge setup like Asahi any more. I have just stuck to MacOS, and I'm happier for it.
At work I’m writing “bleeding edge” software. My operating system needs to be stable because I can’t tolerate any trouble from it on top of my own code’s BS. Debian would be fine in this regard but I want the Apple Silicon battery life so I’m using MacOS.
To be fair the battery life is pretty solid on Asahi, although it's obviously not as good as MacOS. The support for all of apple's aggressive power saving features just isn't there, so you don't get things like decent suspend, or sensible keyboard backlight settings. Still, it's been fun to play with, and I may yet go back, as I do still massively prefer the customisability of a Linux install.
Ah yes, reminds me of when Google Docs/Sheets would break periodically on Firefox/Linux and it would work magically the instant I switched the UA to Chrome/anything.
Instead of playing this cynical and duplicitous game, let me suggest a very simple way to Google: Take YouTube off as a website and only provide that service through apps for Android, Desktop, etc.
The web was built primarily for hypertext and images anyway, whoever thought plugging in the codecs and DRMs to it and watching videos is a great idea?
Maybe this idea sounds preposterous to some and I'm an extremely miniscule minority voicing this opinion here but whatever happened to the single responsibility principle (SRP)? Our browser apps need to be more leaner and more focused.
I don't like apps. They can run in the background and do stuff on your device (although limited by permissions, but still). I use almost everything exclusively through web apps - the only apps I download are for things that I need to use offline. I really hope web apps don't get deprecated. The popular taxi service in my country has a web version, and it looks like it's not being maintained, because it slowly keeps breaking more and more. Their mobile app is a huge bloated superapp with ads and tracking. I don't want to install that, I just want to use a website.
For whatever it’s worth, iOS keeps a pretty short leash on background tasks. Nothing is allowed to continually run — they’re tasks, not processes, and as such are expected to start up, do whatever it is they need to do, and quit as quickly as possible.
It also keeps track of resource consumption and frequency, and so tasks that eat too much CPU, memory, or bandwidth, request to run too often, or don’t finish their work in a timely manner get penalized and are run less frequently. The worst offenders may barely get run at all.
I honestly would like to have an option for background processes on desktop OSes to be treated this way, with a list allowing for exceptions where necessary. Most things don’t actually have a good reason to always be running.
You might be interested in this neat OSX project, which lets you force non-focused applications into sleep.
https://github.com/omikun/ForceNap
There are other similar ones that do more monitoring of CPU usage etc like
https://www.stclairsoft.com/AppTamer/
But I haven’t used them because I didn’t feel like paying.
That exact thing applies to browser too which is also a desktop app, it's not the gigantic operating system that some people believe it to be or want it to be, at least not yet.
On the other side of the fence, there are people like me who don't want the slightest bloat in my browsing experience which is mostly intended for reading hypertext documents and utilitarian sites. The only extension (app) I use is ublock origin which is necessary to reduce cruft.
Why should those like me seeking a minimalist/utilitarian workflow suffer from all the bloat, cruft and updates needed to sustain a "browser app store" ecosystem that I never even use? And I don't think I'm the only one in this regard (the massive popularity of utilitarian websites like tildes, hacker news and old reddit is blessed proof of that). Going forward, I think we need a parting of ways where the current browser paradigm is at least forked into two versions - one for those of us who need a stable and time-tested version of the utilitarian web, and one for those who want to live on the cutting edge and bloat themselves with all the apps, videos, DRMs, etc.
It is already like that, the difference is that you are not entitled to the existence of native application for any given app. The reality is that weighing the pro and cons, the people who prefer desktop applications for light tasks is a small and dwindling market, and many developers will not try to serve that market. It is what it is and you just have to accept it.
I heard this same refrain about gopher back in the 90s. While I personally think this is not going to go anywhere, you’re not alone — I bet you would be very interested in the Gemini protocol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(protocol)
Please, God, no. You typically can't install essential add-ons like AdBlock or SponsorBlock or UI Enhancers for dedicated apps. And any Desktop app they made for YouTube would likely be terrible as well, if their mobile apps are anything to go by. It's why I still view almost every YouTube video I watch on mobile in Safari, rather than in their iOS app.
It would be nice if they opened up their API for paid users, allowing development of third party apps that integrate those things you mention better than a browser extension can.
Spotify used to be like this, and there were a few third party clients paid users could use in place of the official client. I was building one myself until they pulled support for their library/API without a proper replacement.
It would be nice if I could shoot rainbows out my arse, but that's about as likely to happen as Google opening up their dedicated YouTube apps to third-party extensions... especially ones that would allow us to block ads, their major revenue source. ;)
well, started with ShareYourWorld in 1997. but if you meant the tech involved, I believe that was Macromedia in 1995 which would develop the shockwave player (crazy how fast tech moves when people today would not hear of that but it was pretty much every other website in the 2000's)
To be fair, ,it's easier to strip out features than to add on major ones. There are extensions that can remove any and all Javascript operations, and then there are native features like Firefox's reading mode that only delievers the raw text to digest.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some more niche browser promising such a minimalst experience out of the box
I would absolutely take a well made native desktop app over the current YouTube experience, if that were an officially supported option. For several years now YouTube has had many of the rough edges endemic to complex web apps (though admittedly, not to anywhere near the degree some have).
Even now I have YouTube “installed” as a PWA so it kinda lives in its own little world and isn’t mucking up my browser tabs. It also helps with watch history pollution since the PWA and my general web browsers are signed into different Google accounts.