54 votes

How Bluesky, the rival of Elon Musk’s X, is seizing the moment

49 comments

  1. [21]
    boredop
    Link
    I work at a news organization, and at least for now there seems to be a lot more excitement for Bluesky among my colleagues than than there ever was for Mastodon. That alone makes me think Bluesky...

    I work at a news organization, and at least for now there seems to be a lot more excitement for Bluesky among my colleagues than than there ever was for Mastodon. That alone makes me think Bluesky at least has a puncher's chance.

    I still prefer Mastodon. My first impression of Bluesky is that it looks and feels like Twitter used to, and after two years off of Twitter that feels like the past, not the future. After I left the Twitter culture behind I did not miss it very much. But I'm still down with anything that gets people off of Twitter/X.

    36 votes
    1. [19]
      0xSim
      Link Parent
      I'm (relatively) active on Mastodon, but have a Bluesky account for all the non-tech stuff. As much as I like Mastodon and the Fediverse, Bluesky is a better product for the masses. Mastodon does...

      I'm (relatively) active on Mastodon, but have a Bluesky account for all the non-tech stuff. As much as I like Mastodon and the Fediverse, Bluesky is a better product for the masses. Mastodon does its job, ActivityPub makes it resistant to enshittification, but it's nothing more than a utilitarian social network. On the other hand, Bluesky feels fun.

      There's a variety of reasons for that difference, but IMO it boils down to the fact that open-source projects aren't fun first. They exist to solve an issue, they're inherently utilitarian first. A VC-backed product like Bluesky must be fun first to attract users and make money. And it works.

      And that's ok, I say that without judgement. Most of the fun things I was getting from Twitter (shitposters, videogames, art, ...) are now available on Bluesky. When Bluesky becomes enshittified, I will find these things elsewhere, just as I've been doing those last 2 years.

      25 votes
      1. [17]
        public
        Link Parent
        I agree that Mastodon isn't fun, but have a sharp disagreement as to the reason. IMO, it's primarily an existing userbase problem, not a technical issue. Perhaps there is something to be said for...

        I agree that Mastodon isn't fun, but have a sharp disagreement as to the reason. IMO, it's primarily an existing userbase problem, not a technical issue. Perhaps there is something to be said for the three-column interface scaring away the newcomers. If that's the case, the network is better off without them.

        However, the big issue is that the new website smell had worn off by late 2018 and none of the later migrations had significantly disrupted the meta conversations. Perhaps the second Trump term will make things fun again over there, as the terminal feeling of "shit's boring, yo" set in right around when Biden took over. I'm doubtful.

        5 votes
        1. [16]
          supergauntlet
          Link Parent
          this is kind of exactly why bsky is succeeding where the fediverse isn't - the fact of the matter is that the interface of most activitypub applications is kind of confusing to most people. if you...

          IMO, it's primarily an existing userbase problem, not a technical issue. Perhaps there is something to be said for the three-column interface scaring away the newcomers. If that's the case, the network is better off without them.

          this is kind of exactly why bsky is succeeding where the fediverse isn't - the fact of the matter is that the interface of most activitypub applications is kind of confusing to most people. if you don't make it easy to use for 99% of people you'll only have nerds, which doesn't exactly replace Twitter.

          plus the protocol lends itself to petty tyrant syndrome where one instance owner can decide to block another instance and you're just screwed. bsky has problems (annoying petty scolds) but they ultimately have no power because you can make them go away easily. The same is not true of fediverse where instance admins make lists of queer instances to block. sure, bluesky has dumb idiots abusing modlists, but they have no power. On fediverse they do.

          I knew bsky would succeed when they had a bunch of dumb mutelist drama last year and it didn't result in a massive network-wide schism like it would have on fediverse. It is simply the only option out there for most people that makes sense to switch from Twitter. Where else were you going to go, threads?

          I also think this likely won't be the same for what ends up replacing reddit. Reddit's core userbase has always been power users willing to tolerate some jank. Lemmy, kbin, etc are probably fine for them because the avg user is simply more technical. This is also why I think fediverse is always going to have a place - only allowing people who are kinda big nerds to join does have some genuine advantages too.

          13 votes
          1. [14]
            sparksbet
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            I don't spend much time on Mastodon, but I think it's important to counterbalance your link about that blocklist blocking queer instances with the fact that many queer instances block a huge...

            I don't spend much time on Mastodon, but I think it's important to counterbalance your link about that blocklist blocking queer instances with the fact that many queer instances block a huge number of anti-queer and otherwise alt-right instances to prevent harassment. I agree that there's definitely some risk of "petty dictator" syndrome, and the blocklist they're going through is fucked up, but I don't think it's fair to frame the ability to block other instances as something that's exclusively harmful to queer people or other vulnerable minorities.

            Also, I mean, Bluesky also has blocklists as a feature, and there's just as much risk of those being used against trans women too.

            12 votes
            1. [9]
              DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              I think there's a difference in the different groups blocking each other vs individuals making use of the lists that makes it work for me. Plus an ethos of "I'm not getting into a dumbass argument...

              I think there's a difference in the different groups blocking each other vs individuals making use of the lists that makes it work for me.

              Plus an ethos of "I'm not getting into a dumbass argument with the sealion, I'm gonna block him" and that blocking breaks the thread and ends the argument really firmly

              5 votes
              1. [2]
                sparksbet
                Link Parent
                yeah I can definitely see the difference there. But I don't necessarily think the design itself prevents the problem so much as the (current) culture, if that makes sense

                yeah I can definitely see the difference there. But I don't necessarily think the design itself prevents the problem so much as the (current) culture, if that makes sense

                4 votes
              2. [6]
                public
                Link Parent
                The way blocking (federation in general, really) breaks threads also encourages dogpiling, as good-faith users can't see the 37 others who already made the exact same point.

                The way blocking (federation in general, really) breaks threads also encourages dogpiling, as good-faith users can't see the 37 others who already made the exact same point.

                1 vote
                1. [5]
                  DefinitelyNotAFae
                  Link Parent
                  I actually see it shut down harassment by preventing people from quote posting and sending their own followers at people, and it means the replies don't show up on followers feeds either. (They...

                  I actually see it shut down harassment by preventing people from quote posting and sending their own followers at people, and it means the replies don't show up on followers feeds either. (They did change up so that you don't see deep replies as easily either, which meant fewer people jumping in deep into threads.)

                  Plus the dog-pile-ee can shut down comments or block the person they replied to to similarly shut down the thread. If someone is just blocking people they don't like in the replies without any clarification it doesn't help, but IME pre-existing replies saying that tomatoes are actually a fruit doesn't stop others from also saying the same thing.

                  It gets confusing if you come in later, sometimes, but I think it's healthier.

                  1. [4]
                    public
                    Link Parent
                    Even more confusing, the different softwares handle things like shutting off comments differently. It's by no means guaranteed that someone else's server will honor those requests (or it's one of...

                    Even more confusing, the different softwares handle things like shutting off comments differently. It's by no means guaranteed that someone else's server will honor those requests (or it's one of the front ends that does support quote posting).

                    1 vote
                    1. [3]
                      DefinitelyNotAFae
                      Link Parent
                      I haven't used Mastodon or anything though I see some federated posts on Bluesky, I think? In that the usernames are verified through Mastodon? And I haven't used anything but the main BS app to...

                      I haven't used Mastodon or anything though I see some federated posts on Bluesky, I think? In that the usernames are verified through Mastodon? And I haven't used anything but the main BS app to read it so I haven't seen it integrated elsewhere.

                      1. [2]
                        public
                        Link Parent
                        I believe some folks have set up ActivityPub-Bsky bridges, with all the usual Fediverse drama about mirroring, searching, and scraping that usually happens.

                        I believe some folks have set up ActivityPub-Bsky bridges, with all the usual Fediverse drama about mirroring, searching, and scraping that usually happens.

                        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                          Link Parent
                          Yeah I'm aware of it and fully let it all roll off of me 😅

                          Yeah I'm aware of it and fully let it all roll off of me 😅

                          1 vote
            2. [2]
              skybrian
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              I tried my first labeler on BlueSky recently, for US politics. It has a bunch of subcategories and you can set them individually. I set most of them on “warn”, which hides them, but then you can...

              I tried my first labeler on BlueSky recently, for US politics. It has a bunch of subcategories and you can set them individually. I set most of them on “warn”, which hides them, but then you can reveal them. It works much like content warnings on Mastodon, except that it applies to everything! The author doesn’t have to do it. I think that’s great!

              Also, a hint for anyone annoyed by videos: the setting to turn off autoplay is under accessibility in settings.

              I’m still going to unhide political posts sometimes and I might play a video sometimes, but it’s great having this level of control over the UI. When used in this way, the labeler doesn’t have to be perfect to be useful. It also feels more chill than the Fediverse politics about who is going to block who if they don’t shape up.

              (On the other hand, one setting that Mastodon has and Bluesky doesn’t yet is the ability to subscribe to someone’s original posts without subscribing to their reshares.)

              4 votes
              1. sparksbet
                Link Parent
                I only just joined Bluesky a couple days ago, so I'm still learning about these features! It seems like they really do have a lot over the Twitter baseline on that front, even before you take into...

                I only just joined Bluesky a couple days ago, so I'm still learning about these features! It seems like they really do have a lot over the Twitter baseline on that front, even before you take into account the differences in leadership.

                1 vote
            3. [2]
              supergauntlet
              Link Parent
              yes, and blocklists on bsky have this problem too. the problem on bsky is much less of an issue simply because the moderation is more intended to be tailored to the individual experience - I agree...

              yes, and blocklists on bsky have this problem too. the problem on bsky is much less of an issue simply because the moderation is more intended to be tailored to the individual experience - I agree that this is a culture difference but the design of the site reflects the culture, and vice versa. They are just different. Again, this is why the fediverse has a place - it is for the people who are willing to do that kind of digging to stay up to date on instance drama. I'm saying that the user experience influences the culture, and the way it's being done on mastodon and similar is kind of inherently designed for a different userbase and kind of fundamentally lacks broader appeal outside of nerd circles.

              2 votes
              1. sparksbet
                Link Parent
                That makes sense, I think we're broadly in agreement there.

                That makes sense, I think we're broadly in agreement there.

                1 vote
          2. public
            Link Parent
            I do consider that to be a feature. For every researcher emeritus who ain't got the time for computer nonsense, the three-column layout scares off 100 people whose chatter only adds noise to the...

            the interface of most activitypub applications is kind of confusing to most people

            I do consider that to be a feature. For every researcher emeritus who ain't got the time for computer nonsense, the three-column layout scares off 100 people whose chatter only adds noise to the network.

            See also: your final paragraph about Reddit and its refugees.

            blocklist drama

            That absolutely is a much larger roadblock to Fediverse adoption than a three-column interface. Ro (formerly Aer0h)'s list you linked is a notable grifting shit-stirrer. He talks a big game about racial justice and has it out for white trans women who dare say their immediate livelihoods as the trans community is currently facing more threats than black folks.

            I once got banned from a 1000+ user server (which has since shut down b/c the admin just got sick of it) with the message, "You didn't do anything wrong, but your willingness to mouth off to popular admins puts the rest of this server's social connections at risk if we let you stay." It's absolutely a problem.

            Even if the admin doesn't get sucked into drama, they may also get bored and close up shop (see above).

            2 votes
      2. boredop
        Link Parent
        Luckily for me, I'm not the masses. I'm just me! ;-)

        Bluesky is a better product for the masses.

        Luckily for me, I'm not the masses. I'm just me! ;-)

        3 votes
    2. Fiachra
      Link Parent
      Yeah I agree. My ideal outcome would be for the users to de-consolidate onto multiple non-corporate-run platforms, but if it breaks Musk's ability to influence public opinion I'll take "Twitter...

      Yeah I agree. My ideal outcome would be for the users to de-consolidate onto multiple non-corporate-run platforms, but if it breaks Musk's ability to influence public opinion I'll take "Twitter minus three years" for now.

      5 votes
  2. [3]
    DefinitelyNotAFae
    Link
    I enjoy Bluesky a lot, though the influx needs to chill a bit as my feed's gotten less of the folks I follow and more noise. I have a lot of different feeds though so I may just need to adjust my...

    I enjoy Bluesky a lot, though the influx needs to chill a bit as my feed's gotten less of the folks I follow and more noise. I have a lot of different feeds though so I may just need to adjust my settings.

    20 votes
    1. [2]
      drrlvn
      Link Parent
      If only the feeds could remember where you left off, or at the very least not scroll to the very top when they refresh. As it is it's very hard to keep up unless you follow very few people or use...

      If only the feeds could remember where you left off, or at the very least not scroll to the very top when they refresh. As it is it's very hard to keep up unless you follow very few people or use a really small feed.

      5 votes
      1. DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Yeah I used to have the opposite issue - I'd run out of new posts! But I do like that most of it is just chronological. (Discover is probably not but Following is I believe) But I don't try to...

        Yeah I used to have the opposite issue - I'd run out of new posts!

        But I do like that most of it is just chronological. (Discover is probably not but Following is I believe)

        But I don't try to read everything

        1 vote
  3. [14]
    RNG
    Link
    Bluesky seems to be just liberal Twitter. I cannot find the non-political stuff I like on Bluesky.

    Bluesky seems to be just liberal Twitter. I cannot find the non-political stuff I like on Bluesky.

    10 votes
    1. [9]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      There are a bunch of "starter packs" of folks you can follow that you can find for all sorts of different topics, science, law, furries. Can I point you in a starter pack direction?

      There are a bunch of "starter packs" of folks you can follow that you can find for all sorts of different topics, science, law, furries. Can I point you in a starter pack direction?

      18 votes
      1. [3]
        RNG
        Link Parent
        Do you have any recommendations for these interests: Philosophy (analytic, religion, mind, knowledge, etc) Binary analysis Pokemon Homebrewing Motorcycling General interest stuff I don't believe...

        Do you have any recommendations for these interests:

        • Philosophy (analytic, religion, mind, knowledge, etc)
        • Binary analysis
        • Pokemon
        • Homebrewing
        • Motorcycling
        • General interest stuff

        I don't believe in getting political news or information from a short-form text site.

        7 votes
        1. smiles134
          Link Parent
          You can do searches for starter packs here: https://blueskydirectory.com/starter-packs/all There are 15 that came up for Pokemon in a wide array of subcategories for instance, so maybe one of...

          You can do searches for starter packs here: https://blueskydirectory.com/starter-packs/all

          There are 15 that came up for Pokemon in a wide array of subcategories for instance, so maybe one of those aligns with your interests

          5 votes
        2. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          @smiles134 beat me to the link but I also recommend typing pokemon starterpack into the search for example - you can see how broadly followed they are. We don't have a ton of individual interest...

          @smiles134 beat me to the link but I also recommend typing pokemon starterpack into the search for example - you can see how broadly followed they are. We don't have a ton of individual interest overlap so I don't want to mis-curate your feed

          1 vote
      2. [2]
        Requirement
        Link Parent
        While I think starter packs are a good idea in theory, the practical implementation of them seems pretty lacking. While I haven't really messed about with them too much, it has a feeling of a...

        While I think starter packs are a good idea in theory, the practical implementation of them seems pretty lacking. While I haven't really messed about with them too much, it has a feeling of a "popular kids list" but somehow, even more inscrutable than middleschool lunch table hierarchy. Who are these people? Who is the person making the specific list? Why are the lists titled in mostly unhelpful ways? Again, while they are good in theory, it feels like the mountain of knowledge needed to make sense of them is a real uphill battle. As I was looking at them the other day, I also noticed that they don't seem particularly used either, based on sorting by used. Also, I can't even find the list of starter packs right now. I logged into bluesky thinking that they'd be prominently displayed somewhere but the only starterpacks tab I can find is for lists that I have made (none). Perhaps they would be used more if it was possible for a regular ol' dummy like myself to find them.

        5 votes
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          They are definitely user created and thus your mileage may vary. Same with labelers or block/mute lists which I use only to flag folks as a start for the same reason. I've found them most often by...

          They are definitely user created and thus your mileage may vary. Same with labelers or block/mute lists which I use only to flag folks as a start for the same reason.

          I've found them most often by searching for topics, like higher education or spec fic authors that I'm interested in and from folks I start following from there.

          Here's a handy directory off site
          https://blueskydirectory.com/starter-packs/all

          Which you also find if you type starter packs into the search so that's handy.

          I find it so much more intuitive than Mastodon and so much less toxic than Twitter that I don't mind the hoops. I'm in the first million users so while that's not really "old" in the scheme of things I've been around for a bit to feel comfortable there.

          10 votes
      3. [3]
        sparksbet
        Link Parent
        okay wait can you point me in some starter pack directions? I've basically just followed some breadtube folks so far, but since we're basically twins I suspect we'll have plenty of overlap I can...

        okay wait can you point me in some starter pack directions? I've basically just followed some breadtube folks so far, but since we're basically twins I suspect we'll have plenty of overlap I can take advantage of.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          DefinitelyNotAFae
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          So I use starter packs less than feeds because then I'm not following everyone but I can go through the feed of those folks whenever I want and follow them if I like. Also the other trick is to...

          So I use starter packs less than feeds because then I'm not following everyone but I can go through the feed of those folks whenever I want and follow them if I like. Also the other trick is to search for topic+sky

          Useful feeds:
          Gift links for articles - like a news feed but explicitly gift links.
          LawSky

          Indigisky

          Starter packs (give me some more topic areas and I can grab more)
          SFF authors
          ADHD creators

          And fwiw, this is my handle there. I don't post often

          5 votes
          1. guissmo
            Link Parent
            How about tech or software dev? How does one even find starter packs? Edit: Never mind I found your other comment

            How about tech or software dev? How does one even find starter packs?

            Edit: Never mind I found your other comment

            2 votes
    2. shinigami
      Link Parent
      Definitely a second vote for finding BlueSky Starter Packs for your hobbies. I didn't have the same experience you did, even though I was expecting it. It might be because I started following...

      Definitely a second vote for finding BlueSky Starter Packs for your hobbies.

      I didn't have the same experience you did, even though I was expecting it. It might be because I started following people in my hobby spaces first, and that's what trained their discovery algorithm for me.

      With the big migration from Twitter, I do see more political posts now, but it's few and far between, and comes from real people, instead of some Right-Wing ad masquerading as a tweet.

      7 votes
    3. [3]
      sparksbet
      Link Parent
      The "discover" feed does feel like that to me, but it's better once you find some people to follow. I just looked for people I remembered from Twitter personally, but there are apparently "starter...

      The "discover" feed does feel like that to me, but it's better once you find some people to follow. I just looked for people I remembered from Twitter personally, but there are apparently "starter packs" out there for people. You can change the order of feeds so that it defaults to people you follow rather than their "discover" feed which I've done, and there are lots of topic-specific custom feeds you can add. Finding people who post about your hobbies or other topics you're interested in is gonna be a big factor on any site like this.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        One of my favorite custom feeds is the 📌 feed If you reply to a skeet with a 📌 it'll go to this custom feed to save it for later.

        One of my favorite custom feeds is the 📌 feed

        If you reply to a skeet with a 📌 it'll go to this custom feed to save it for later.

        2 votes
  4. KapteinB
    Link
    I'm not particularly interested in Bluesky, since I never really understood the appeal of Twitter, but I do regularly check what's new on Linklonk, and they use Bluesky as one of their sources, so...

    I'm not particularly interested in Bluesky, since I never really understood the appeal of Twitter, but I do regularly check what's new on Linklonk, and they use Bluesky as one of their sources, so more activity there benefits me as well.

    7 votes
  5. Thrabalen
    Link
    I stuck it out with Twitter until they banned free users from Tweetdeck, because the endlessly scrolling update was a hellscape for me. Only recently did I go to Bluesky (right at the election,...

    I stuck it out with Twitter until they banned free users from Tweetdeck, because the endlessly scrolling update was a hellscape for me. Only recently did I go to Bluesky (right at the election, but before it got suddenly massively plumped.) My take? It does remind me of older Twitter, but in a good nostalgic way. But also in a "not getting harassed" way. It's been incredibly friendly, and while I left Twitter over a year ago without looking back, I discovered again how much I missed the "buckshot of opinions" effect.

    That is to say, I you used Twitter before Manchild acquired it, you know roughly how Bluesky works. If you never liked Twitter, you won't really like Bluesky (unless the toxicity is why you didn't like it, and I totally get that.)

    7 votes
  6. NaraVara
    Link
    I’d be really interested to hear @deimos’ take on Bluesky’s moderation strategy. As a summary, there is a moderation team that mutes and bans accounts as they see them. But any user can optionally...

    I’d be really interested to hear @deimos’ take on Bluesky’s moderation strategy.

    As a summary, there is a moderation team that mutes and bans accounts as they see them. But any user can optionally publish moderation lists, which are basically meta tag files, for other users to subscribe to. Users can then optionally have any account possessing a tag automatically muted or blocked. And a blocked account functionally does not exist from your perspective. They don’t see your stuff or anything even connected to your stuff. It’s as if you never existed.

    This functionally crowdsources moderation to volunteer taggers so users are sort of curating their own feeds by opting into whichever sort of moderation list they want. (There are also feed lists where users can curate lists of accounts for others to subscribe to. And I expect sometime in the future there will be “algorithm” lists to populate non-chronological timelines with tuneable parameters people can subscribe to). This sort of amounts to a “trust” system where users invest trust in the people who maintain the tag repos. Some of these operate semi-automatically. Like I’m subscribed to one that scrapes all BlueSky profiles to identify if they have any number of MAGA or TERF adjacent emojis or language in their profiles which you can auto-mute or block.

    It’s kind of great. I feel like I have a TON of power to moderate my own feed. I can definitely see some people going really far with it and turning the space into a hug box where any dissenting opinion get excised. Like I noticed I got added to a bunch of blocklists on a specific day where the only skeet I made was saying that “Time to Say Goodbye” is really mawkish and over the top—which seems like a weird thing to block someone over—but hey that’s their prerogative. If they don’t want my negativity in there it’s probably best for their mental health that they not see it!

    6 votes
  7. devilized
    Link
    I've been enjoying Bluesky and have been surprised to see some of the people who have been moving over. I did try Mastodon a while back but it was more effort than I really cared to put into...

    I've been enjoying Bluesky and have been surprised to see some of the people who have been moving over. I did try Mastodon a while back but it was more effort than I really cared to put into social media.

    4 votes
  8. Eji1700
    Link
    It's amazing to me how awful twitters default interface is, and yet it seems that the only alternatives are copying it. I get why, but god it's not even hard for me to not use twitter and friends....

    It's amazing to me how awful twitters default interface is, and yet it seems that the only alternatives are copying it. I get why, but god it's not even hard for me to not use twitter and friends. It's such a shit interface for conveying any information.

    4 votes
  9. benpocalypse
    Link
    I thought John Mastodon was Elon's enemy?

    I thought John Mastodon was Elon's enemy?

    1 vote
  10. [3]
    moocow1452
    Link
    Is there an application like Fritter or a viewer of yore that would let me aggregate people I want to follow on Bluesky without commiting to the ecosystem? I know Openvibe lets me combine...

    Is there an application like Fritter or a viewer of yore that would let me aggregate people I want to follow on Bluesky without commiting to the ecosystem? I know Openvibe lets me combine timelines and see who follows what where if I really wanted to put some time into it, but I figured if I wanted to do this minimally, a viewer app might be a good fit. Or should I just bite the bullet, and start up an account?

    1 vote
    1. BitsMcBytes
      Link Parent
      In theory this is meant to be possible as Bluesky was meant to be decentralized but not sure how much they've opened things up in practice. Fun fact, one of the core creators of Bluesky (Paul) is...

      In theory this is meant to be possible as Bluesky was meant to be decentralized but not sure how much they've opened things up in practice.

      Fun fact, one of the core creators of Bluesky (Paul) is also the creator of Fritter.
      https://github.com/beakerbrowser/fritter

      6 votes