88 votes

United States postal service debuts long-awaited new mail truck

49 comments

  1. [9]
    fuzzy
    Link
    They're so goofy looking but ... I kind of love it.

    They're so goofy looking but ... I kind of love it.

    45 votes
    1. [7]
      LetterCounter
      Link Parent
      Agreed! I nearly laughed out loud when I saw it. However, these vehicles seem purposefully designed for their function. The tall windows and oversized doors seem perfect for safety, visibility,...

      Agreed! I nearly laughed out loud when I saw it. However, these vehicles seem purposefully designed for their function. The tall windows and oversized doors seem perfect for safety, visibility, and ease of delivery.

      Basically, if it helps mail carriers out, the goofiness will be unique and endearing. I can't wait till they come to my area!

      46 votes
      1. [2]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        Also mail trucks rarely get over 45 mph so aerodynamics just aren’t much of a concern.

        Also mail trucks rarely get over 45 mph so aerodynamics just aren’t much of a concern.

        26 votes
        1. LetterCounter
          Link Parent
          Exactly! Form follows function is a generally good design principle and it seems to apply here. It makes me happy!

          Exactly! Form follows function is a generally good design principle and it seems to apply here. It makes me happy!

          13 votes
      2. mild_takes
        Link Parent
        A few months ago I saw a video on why they were designed so weirdly. It's all about meeting a bunch of very specific safety/visibility requirements they had. I like the looks as well.

        A few months ago I saw a video on why they were designed so weirdly. It's all about meeting a bunch of very specific safety/visibility requirements they had.

        I like the looks as well.

        17 votes
      3. [3]
        NoPants
        Link Parent
        It's the side view mirrors that I am sad about. I get that they have 360-degree cameras, blind-spot monitoring, collision sensors and anti-lock brakes... but why make the side view mirrors so small?

        It's the side view mirrors that I am sad about.

        I get that they have 360-degree cameras, blind-spot monitoring, collision sensors and anti-lock brakes... but why make the side view mirrors so small?

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          Per the article, the bigger mirrors got knocked out of alignment all the time. With full camera coverage, they're less necessary.

          Per the article, the bigger mirrors got knocked out of alignment all the time. With full camera coverage, they're less necessary.

          16 votes
          1. NoPants
            Link Parent
            Yeah, but they are so much higher now!

            Yeah, but they are so much higher now!

            1 vote
    2. Gekko
      Link Parent
      Real heroes wear shorts and drive these things! You don't have to look awesome to be awesome haha

      Real heroes wear shorts and drive these things! You don't have to look awesome to be awesome haha

      6 votes
  2. [2]
    scroll_lock
    Link
    Comment box Scope: personal reaction Tone: amused Opinion: yes Sarcasm/humor: none This is a hilarious-looking vehicle. It also seems like an extremely safe vehicle. Look at that super low hood...
    Comment box
    • Scope: personal reaction
    • Tone: amused
    • Opinion: yes
    • Sarcasm/humor: none

    This is a hilarious-looking vehicle.

    It also seems like an extremely safe vehicle. Look at that super low hood height --- not running over any children with that thing. The visibility is just too good. SUV manufacturers should be mandated to take similar approaches.

    Nice that the vehicles are all going to be electric pretty soon.

    34 votes
    1. Interesting
      Link Parent
      I honestly kind of like it. It still feels like a postal van, which gives me some nice rose covered glasses remembering my family's mailman growing up (the same man handed me my kindergarten...

      I honestly kind of like it. It still feels like a postal van, which gives me some nice rose covered glasses remembering my family's mailman growing up (the same man handed me my kindergarten report card and college admission letters!)

      16 votes
  3. [11]
    updawg
    Link
    Well that's g...the bare minimum.

    For safety, the vehicles have airbags, 360-degree cameras, blind-spot monitoring, collision sensors and anti-lock brakes — all of which are missing on the Grumman.

    Well that's g...the bare minimum.

    13 votes
    1. [5]
      Requirement
      Link Parent
      Also, pointing out that they are missing on the Grumman feels mean, since those things didn't exist when it was designed.

      Also, pointing out that they are missing on the Grumman feels mean, since those things didn't exist when it was designed.

      27 votes
      1. [3]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        In my wilder dreams I’d also outfit the postal service trucks with a suite of sensors and cameras so the USPS can start to collect and provide open street data on par with Google Maps. They’re...

        In my wilder dreams I’d also outfit the postal service trucks with a suite of sensors and cameras so the USPS can start to collect and provide open street data on par with Google Maps. They’re driving around anyway, why not collect the data for GIS and street view and road conditions, and every other thing?

        Stick the sensor suite on police squad cars too. If part of the job involves a lot of driving around we might as well get as much out of the drive time as possible.

        27 votes
        1. Gazook89
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Can you imagine the uproar of a federal government vehicle recording 360 video as it drives down every street, 6 days a week? Or, as sibling comment muses, a police car doing the same? In this...

          Can you imagine the uproar of a federal government vehicle recording 360 video as it drives down every street, 6 days a week?

          Or, as sibling comment muses, a police car doing the same?

          In this country?

          Never gonna happen.

          :edit: I hadn’t read the article, my apologies, I didn’t realize these DO have extensive cameras beyond just backup cameras. I wonder how long recordings are preserved and where. (If recording at all, rather than just being “live” only).

          Also, unrelated but another pie in the sky thought: it’d be cool if all the charging stations installed were available to the public (particularly in more rural areas)

          17 votes
        2. spinoza-the-jedi
          Link Parent
          I kind of love this idea. I often feel the USPS has a lot of under-utilized potential. This would be a great way to make the data more accessible, and probably far more accurate/up-to-date.

          I kind of love this idea. I often feel the USPS has a lot of under-utilized potential. This would be a great way to make the data more accessible, and probably far more accurate/up-to-date.

          7 votes
      2. creesch
        Link Parent
        It is probably done to really drive through the point how outdated the current fleet of vehicles is.

        It is probably done to really drive through the point how outdated the current fleet of vehicles is.

        6 votes
    2. [5]
      hungariantoast
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      What other safety features would you prefer it have? Asking because I don’t own new cars and that all sounds great to me, and I just don’t know of many other features. I’ve driven brand-new cars...

      What other safety features would you prefer it have?

      Asking because I don’t own new cars and that all sounds great to me, and I just don’t know of many other features. I’ve driven brand-new cars with those features, and they were nice to have.

      (Admittedly, some of the "extra" features I can think of, like lane assist or adaptive cruise control, just annoyed me more than I found them useful, especially in cars where I couldn't turn those features on and off very easily.)

      9 votes
      1. [4]
        updawg
        Link Parent
        Well that's basically all standard, if not legally mandated. Saying your vehicle is great because it has airbags is...not really something that will get people excited. Airbags have been mandatory...

        Well that's basically all standard, if not legally mandated. Saying your vehicle is great because it has airbags is...not really something that will get people excited. Airbags have been mandatory for 26 years. ABS has been mandatory for 12 years.

        2 votes
        1. AugustusFerdinand
          Link Parent
          Those things are mandatory on consumer vehicles, not commercial vehicles. Generally, delivery trucks don't have airbags, buses don't have seatbelts, semis don't have backup cameras, the list goes on.

          Those things are mandatory on consumer vehicles, not commercial vehicles. Generally, delivery trucks don't have airbags, buses don't have seatbelts, semis don't have backup cameras, the list goes on.

          19 votes
        2. hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          I get that, but again, what other safety features would you prefer it have? The only thing I can think of is having a rearview mirror that doubles as a display for a camera. On some new trucks,...

          I get that, but again, what other safety features would you prefer it have?

          The only thing I can think of is having a rearview mirror that doubles as a display for a camera. On some new trucks, they have an actual rearview mirror, but when they're towing something, or the mirror's view is blocked by something in the back seats, etc, the mirror instead becomes a display surface for a rear camera. (It's a different rear camera from the backup camera as well, typically placed higher on the truck's body, so it can view over most towed trailers.)

          It looks like the NGDV will actually have a rear window though, so maybe a rearview mirror that pulls double duty as a camera display is overkill for them.

          9 votes
        3. NaraVara
          Link Parent
          I mean, if it was my job to drive around in that truck every day and I found out it’s gonna have those features I’d be pretty excited.

          I mean, if it was my job to drive around in that truck every day and I found out it’s gonna have those features I’d be pretty excited.

          8 votes
  4. balooga
    Link
    I'd been wondering whatever happened with these. Thanks for the update!

    I'd been wondering whatever happened with these. Thanks for the update!

    10 votes
  5. [5]
    hungariantoast
    Link
    I’m going to miss being able to know my mail was delivered by the sound of that tiny four-banger struggling to get itself off the curb, but these seem neat. I wonder what’s going to happen to the...

    I’m going to miss being able to know my mail was delivered by the sound of that tiny four-banger struggling to get itself off the curb, but these seem neat.

    I wonder what’s going to happen to the old trucks? My understanding is they’re always scrapped for parts and never sold off, but I wonder if that will change now that they’re being replaced?

    I really don’t want one personally, but I can imagine a lot of funny and cool things people could do with them. I wonder if you could modify it into a mini-camper?

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      turmacar
      Link Parent
      I'm sure there'll be a bumper crop of youtuber modification videos for awhile at least. Stock they seem basically worthless (9mpg!) but I'm sure someone will throw an LS in one, probably a Tesla...

      I'm sure there'll be a bumper crop of youtuber modification videos for awhile at least. Stock they seem basically worthless (9mpg!) but I'm sure someone will throw an LS in one, probably a Tesla motor in another.

      6 votes
      1. redwall_hp
        Link Parent
        The Grumman LLV only weighs 3000lb, which is (sadly) light by consumer vehicle standards these days. It is, however, almost the same exact weight as a Honda Civic. Let's see a Civic SI engine in...

        The Grumman LLV only weighs 3000lb, which is (sadly) light by consumer vehicle standards these days. It is, however, almost the same exact weight as a Honda Civic. Let's see a Civic SI engine in one of those.

        LLVtec.

        Add an anime wrap for good measure, because all cars should have those.

        6 votes
    2. [2]
      danbee
      Link Parent
      It's bonkers to me that a 2.5L engine is considered "tiny" in the US. My first car (a Peugeot 205GL in the UK) had a 1.1L engine that produced 54 HP.

      It's bonkers to me that a 2.5L engine is considered "tiny" in the US. My first car (a Peugeot 205GL in the UK) had a 1.1L engine that produced 54 HP.

      1 vote
      1. hungariantoast
        Link Parent
        The 2.5L and slightly rarer 2.2L engines used in the LLV are actually on the larger side for inline-fours. The only inline-fours I'm aware of that are larger than that, and produced around the...

        The 2.5L and slightly rarer 2.2L engines used in the LLV are actually on the larger side for inline-fours. The only inline-fours I'm aware of that are larger than that, and produced around the same time or later than the LLV, are the Porsche 944 and 968, which had 3.0L inline-fours.

        I'm sure there are others from around that time, or even more recently, as well. Perhaps from BMW? Or, if we disregard "inline" for a second, Subaru? There are also almost certainly even larger inline-fours if you look further back than the 80s too.

        So I think 2.5L is near the top end of displacement for regular inline-fours in regular cars.

        Of course, that doesn't change the fact that America is plagued with oversized trucks and SUVs, many of which (especially from the American manufacturers) only have V6 and V8 (or even only V8) engine options in 4.0L+ displacements. 2.5L is kind of tiny compared to that.


        Actually, after writing this comment, I was curious if anyone had data on the average displacement of vehicles in the United States. It turns out the EPA keeps track of that sort of thing:

        https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1224-february-7-2022-average-horsepower-reaches-all-time-high-model

        And the full report:

        https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-12/420r23033.pdf


        In 2022, that average engine displacement for gasoline vehicles in the United States was 171 cubic inches, or 2.8 liters. 55% of gasoline vehicle engines are four-cylinders. (Page 47)

        The report goes on to say:

        Gasoline engine displacement per cylinder has been relatively stable over the time of this report (around 35 cubic inches per cylinder since 1980), so the reduction in overall new vehicle engine displacement is almost entirely due to the shift towards engines with fewer cylinders.

        Based on that, we can do some math:

        An average of 35-cubic-inches-per-cylinder multiplied by four cylinders is 140 cubic inches, or just about 2.3L.

        So 2.5L really is on the higher end for four-cylinder engines, even in the United States.

        1 vote
  6. rungus
    (edited )
    Link
    I know this is a good upgrade, but it's almost bittersweet. The old LLV's were essentially ambient noise, quietly in the background throughout my entire life, and it's going to be sad to see them...

    I know this is a good upgrade, but it's almost bittersweet. The old LLV's were essentially ambient noise, quietly in the background throughout my entire life, and it's going to be sad to see them go.

    Too bad USPS isn't allowed to auction them off. Did you know that the USPS LLV's don't have VINs? They're also the only vehicle legally allowed to drive without a license plate at all times in all 50 states!

    9 votes
  7. idiotheart
    Link
    I don't know if I'll still be an RCA by the time these launch at my station, but goddamn I'll be happy to have something that works. The vehicle currently assigned to my route is always breaking...

    I don't know if I'll still be an RCA by the time these launch at my station, but goddamn I'll be happy to have something that works. The vehicle currently assigned to my route is always breaking down, making for long days sitting waiting for them to bring me a substitute. They inevitably "fix" it, and the process starts over again. I already suck at the job so a bad vehicles doesn't help me get any better.

    9 votes
  8. [6]
    BeanBurrito
    Link
    Why is a 2016 era Trump appointee who had mail sorting machines removed in time for mail-in voting still Postmaster General?

    Once fully deployed, they’ll represent one of the most visible signs of the agency’s 10-year, $40 billion transformation led by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, who’s also renovating aging facilities, overhauling the processing and transportation network, and instituting other changes.

    Why is a 2016 era Trump appointee who had mail sorting machines removed in time for mail-in voting still Postmaster General?

    7 votes
    1. [5]
      updawg
      Link Parent
      He is not a Trump appointee.

      The nine-member United States Postal Service Board of Governors has the sole authority to fire, and hire, the postmaster general.

      He is not a Trump appointee.

      6 votes
      1. [4]
        BeanBurrito
        Link Parent
        sigh Defacto President Biden has replaced members of that board. Why haven't they voted DeJoy out?

        sigh

        Defacto

        President Biden has replaced members of that board.

        Why haven't they voted DeJoy out?

        10 votes
        1. [3]
          MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          DeJoy was doing a great job of tearing down the post office under Trump, but seems to be a political weathervane and is doing a decent job of modernization under Biden.

          DeJoy was doing a great job of tearing down the post office under Trump, but seems to be a political weathervane and is doing a decent job of modernization under Biden.

          7 votes
          1. [2]
            BeanBurrito
            Link Parent
            Maybe not so great https://apnews.com/article/election-2024-mail-ballots-voting-postal-service-985dd6e483fb6dc593d83255b11a9d0a
            4 votes
            1. unkz
              Link Parent
              According to that link, What’s the problem?

              According to that link,

              Postal Service officials told reporters last month that almost 98% of ballots were returned to election officials within three days in 2020, and in 2022, the figure was nearly 99%. DeJoy said he would like to inch closer to 100% this election cycle and that the Postal Service is better positioned to handle ballots than four years ago.

              What’s the problem?

              11 votes
  9. [3]
    rosco
    Link
    Glad they made the overhaul, just piping in wishing they had made it a little more friendly looking. Kind of like the Rivian Delivery Van. We can live in a Pixar movie if we want, give me round...

    Glad they made the overhaul, just piping in wishing they had made it a little more friendly looking. Kind of like the Rivian Delivery Van. We can live in a Pixar movie if we want, give me round headlights!!!

    4 votes
    1. jawedzebra
      Link Parent
      Honestly I think these will grow friendly-looking over time. I already love their silliness.

      Honestly I think these will grow friendly-looking over time. I already love their silliness.

      6 votes
    2. DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      I love the Rivian lights but there are a ton around here so maybe I'm just used to it.

      I love the Rivian lights but there are a ton around here so maybe I'm just used to it.

      2 votes
  10. Markpelly
    Link
    I had a family member deliver mail for 20 years and they complained for 15 of those that the LLV was terrible in the snow. They opted to buy their own delivery vehicle so they could finish their...

    I had a family member deliver mail for 20 years and they complained for 15 of those that the LLV was terrible in the snow. They opted to buy their own delivery vehicle so they could finish their route more safely on the winter days. Northern New England has never been kind to these vehicles.

    I would how this new one does in snow.

    4 votes
  11. [5]
    danbee
    Link
    Is it just me or is it huge compared to the Grumman? Did it need to be that big? Has mail volume increased that much?

    Is it just me or is it huge compared to the Grumman? Did it need to be that big? Has mail volume increased that much?

    3 votes
    1. hungariantoast
      Link Parent
      I think that’s due to packages and boxes becoming much more prevalent in the mail now. So yeah, the average annual mail volume, in both senses of the word, has probably increased sharply over the...

      I think that’s due to packages and boxes becoming much more prevalent in the mail now. So yeah, the average annual mail volume, in both senses of the word, has probably increased sharply over the last forty years.

      17 votes
    2. [3]
      scroll_lock
      Link Parent
      Comment box Scope: information, analysis Tone: neutral Opinion: analysis only Sarcasm/humor: none It is 6 feet longer, 10 inches wider, 30 inches taller, and a little more than twice as heavy at...
      Comment box
      • Scope: information, analysis
      • Tone: neutral
      • Opinion: analysis only
      • Sarcasm/humor: none

      It is 6 feet longer, 10 inches wider, 30 inches taller, and a little more than twice as heavy at around 5600-6700 lbs (battery?).

      It probably doesn't need to be that large:

      The gross vehicle weight rating of the NGDV with an ICE, including payload, is 8,501 lb (3,856 kg),[2]: Table 3-1.2  just one pound over the EPA's threshold to be considered a heavy-duty truck, allowing it to avoid more stringent pollution emissions and efficiency standards for light-duty trucks.

      One pound? What a strange coincidence. As usual, emissions regulations are encouraging manufacturers to build big.

      But the design specification asked for a 1500 lb payload capacity compared to 1000 lb for the Grumman. People aren't necessarily mailing more letters, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're shipping heavier objects on average.

      The population is also substantially larger than in the 80s. Like 100,000,000 more people. So maybe mail volumes have increased in absolute quantities.

      Given the safety features on this thing, I'm not extremely concerned about it being a bit larger. I do like compact vehicles though, they are safer to pedestrians.

      8 votes
      1. creesch
        Link Parent
        Lot's more packages from online shops these days, I am guessing. Yup, modern safety features simply take up more space. Things like crumble zones, side collision protection, etc.

        People aren't necessarily mailing more letters, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're shipping heavier objects on average.

        Lot's more packages from online shops these days, I am guessing.

        Given the safety features on this thing

        Yup, modern safety features simply take up more space. Things like crumble zones, side collision protection, etc.

        9 votes
      2. Akir
        Link Parent
        From my understanding postal workers have been given significantly longer routes to travel and service with fewer people, so being able to carry more weight could easily be just for the higher...

        From my understanding postal workers have been given significantly longer routes to travel and service with fewer people, so being able to carry more weight could easily be just for the higher volume of mail it would need to carry.

        6 votes
  12. mezze
    Link
    While it's ugly as sin, I appreciate the improved safety the giant windshield will provide through better visibility. Also, the lack of fumes. My goodness, those little mail trucks have no...

    While it's ugly as sin, I appreciate the improved safety the giant windshield will provide through better visibility. Also, the lack of fumes. My goodness, those little mail trucks have no business polluting neighborhoods as much as they do -- fumes and noise, alike. It ain't pretty, but it's still a huge win in my book.

    3 votes
  13. [2]
    BeanBurrito
    Link

    Within a few years, the fleet will have expanded to 60,000, most of them electric models, serving as the Postal Service’s primary delivery truck from Maine to Hawaii.

    2 votes
    1. entitled-entilde
      Link Parent
      You have to hope that this is good for the electric vehicle industry in the united states too.

      You have to hope that this is good for the electric vehicle industry in the united states too.

      1 vote
  14. Arminius
    Link
    Electric drive is a great change for all the start-stop short distances they have to do

    Electric drive is a great change for all the start-stop short distances they have to do

    1 vote