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Chef knife recommendations?
Hi everyone! I'm looking for a nice chef knife (or small set of cooking knives) for Christmas.
I'm looking around medium end so I'm wanting to spend 100-200 bucks, I'd prefer a small set of 2-4 knives, no large 12-16 sets as I don't believe those are good value.
I've heard good things about Wusthof and Henckels from my friends but I wanted to get a wider net of recommendations just in case before I made a decision
For home-use you're probably going to be pretty well off with most decent quality knives, get something that you think looks and feels nice to use.
What's going to be way more important is how you take care of the knife, getting a good whetstone and honing steel is key.
Do you have any recommendations for them? Knife sharpening is something I'm a little apprehensive about but keen to learn
Same deal, getting one from any quality brand will do the job. What matters more is the grit number. Generally you want to sharpen the knife twice, once using a ~800-1000 grit stone and then repeat the process using a higher grit stone. I use a 1000 and 6000 grit stone personally. You can also add more stones in-between the starter and finishing stone, but I'm not entirely sure how beneficial this is in the end.
The whetstone will sharpen the blade, but after using it for a while the fibres in the metal will begin to bend, a honing steel will straighten these out which means you won't have to sharpen it as often. That is why you also want to use a honing steel regularly, depending on how often the knife is used. If you use it daily then I'd recommend using it 3-4 times a week (it takes 1 minute so no real reason not to do it often).
You also need to maintain your whetstones with a so called stone fixer, but this is only needed if the whetstone becomes uneven or doesn't maintain your blade as well.
There are many guides online on how to use a whetstone, here's a pretty good one (you don't need to wet your whetstone for 45 minutes as suggested, you really only need to do it until it stops making bubbles):
https://www.seriouseats.com/knife-skills-how-to-sharpen-a-knife#toc-step-1-soak-your-stones
Here's a video demonstrating how to use a honing steel:
https://youtu.be/Y4F7kFCNjnI
TL;DR: It's easy to go hardcore with this stuff, but it can be relatively simple too. Getting 1000 and 6000 grit whetstones, a honing rod, and a whetstone fixer will help your blades last a very, very long time.
Edit: I should add that you will likely sharpen your knife 1-2 times per year, so it's not an every week kind of thing.
As an occasional professional knife maker I would just like to heartily agree with this entire comment.
The only thing I might add is that @OBLIVIATER you can practice sharpening on your cheap knives. But it's honestly not that hard once you've done it a few times.
Note that in my experience, random cheap knives are harder to sharpen than more expensive one.
I noticed that ny wife's no-name-but-it's-from-Kochi-and-it's-pretty-good santoku takes less time to establish a burr than my hipster Bunka from Sharpedge.
Which is itself easier than the Victorinox knife everyone is recommending in this thread (and with good reason: ours is more than 10 years old and still going strong !), but way easier than the dollar store crap my in-laws have.
With that being said, it's still a good training to get muscle memory. And regardless of the price, a sharp knife is always more pleasurable to use than a dull one.
This is true, and it's because the cheap knives are made of crappier steel and have crappier geometry - both of which require more attention to get a decent edge. But given that most people trash a couple of edges when first starting out, I think it's good to trash the cheap knives. Just for myself, I'm perfectly good at sharpening a blunted-through-normal-use knife but I hate (and am terrible at without a jig) re-establishing a bevel.
Also as you say, it's good to get a bit of a feel for things before moving on to the nice stuff. Like dry-slope skiing is considerably harder than actual skiiing, but when you do get onto snow the muscle memory kicks in.
Note that you can lower grit stones for the same effect. Handy if you've bought a sharpening stone set, not knowing better, and notice that you have no use of that #240 grit stone.
All my attempts to learn to sharpen with stones have had mediocre results. I like a sharp knife but don't care to spend tons of time learning to be better at it. So I bought a Ken Onion edition work sharpening tool. It's basically a tiny belt sander with a range of belts in different grits. It's pretty easy to use and repeatable. I sent know how it compares to buying stones and all the kit you need, but I've been happy with it.
I tried it for the first time this summer after watching a bunch of videos. Not only was it easier than I'd expected, I ended up really liking most of the old junk knives I was practicing on one they were sharp. There was one I still hated, which has taught me something about what I do and don't like in a knife.
Advice on this topic always seems to beb really vague, so I'll give you some details I found in my research.
I got a dual 1000/3000 grit water stone with a holder and a cheap knife to practice on. I got a flattening stone that's bigger then the whet stones, but haven't needed it yet. I also got some angle guides, but they didn't end up helping. The whetstone and flattener together were around $60 USD.
The video I found most helpful was by Kenji Lopez, who also wrote the article @hailo referenced. He treats the whole thing like it's not a big deal, which made me a lot more comfortable.
Too add to this, the thing that has had the most impact on my enjoyment of knives is the handle design. Having a great blade is no fun if the handle doesn't fit your hand well.
I wouldn't recommend buying an expensive knife you've not seen in person.
Definitely. That is what I meant by ”feels nice to use” but it’s great that you expanded on it. Having a weird handle sucks even if the blade is super sharp.
Just wanted to point out that this gem exists
I put a surgical-grade edge on my mother's paring knife with this thing. I did the same thing with a couple of my family's commonly used pocket knives.
It definitely takes some finesse to use correctly; would not reccomend for someone who has never used a whetstone before. It's probably okay for things like farm tools, lawn mower blades, etc.
It's worth pointing out that belt sharpeners remove a lot more material from the knife so it's lifetime may be significantly reduced. They also generate a lot of heat which can affect the hardness of your knife if you're not careful.
I wouldn't use this method on kitchen knives.
I was looking at getting a very nice set but I wanted to learn how to sharpen my knives first, as the best blade in the world still dulls.
I went with a Victorinox knife (modern but they’re all good quality) and have been using that for practice for a year or so with the commonly recommended orange (1000 grit) whetstone.
I’ve been really happy with it and glad I didn’t just dive into Wusthof (which is what I settled on due to feel) so it’s worth looking into depending on your goals.
If you already sharpen your knives or are just getting a gift, obviously I like Wusthof and know a few people happy with Zwiling
For price to performance, I'll third Victorinox. I bought one years ago and it was a great improvement over my original cheapie set.
I second Victorinox! This was my first nice chef knife, and I still use it today, along side my Wusthof.
I'd recommend getting the 8" chef knife. I have both the 8 and 10", and I prefer the 8" blade for 99% of my chopping work.
Second the Victorinox recommendation as a starter set. My wife and I got a full set as a wedding gift.
It stayed pretty darn sharp with just honing for quite a while. I've been starting down the Whetstone path myself recently as well, also with a 1000 grit Shapton. Got waaay sharper really quickly.
Victorinox is good (I've had one for years), but they've increased their prices dramatically since I got one.
I paid $33 for my 8in chef's knife (with included travel case!) in 2015, and I would not pay the $65 dollars they're often charging now.
I instead bought a $22 Mercer 8in chef's knife. Pretty much identical from what I can tell, except I prefer the soft handle.
Also a Victorinox fan, I've been using the same one as my default knife for a good ten years now. Hit it with a honing steel before using and it goes through tomatoes like paper.
Love and use my Victorinox fibrox every day. Fantastic and simple knife.
At that price point you can't go wrong with Victorinox Fibrox knives - they're excellent value. Should be able to pick up an 8in for $50 or so.
Second the fibrox. My 8" is a workhorse and does everything I need it to. I also like the plastic (?) handle because it's got great grip even if your hands are wet or greasy.
I also have to second this. No flash, all business.
What kind of knife do you use now and how do you prefer to cut things (rocking vs pushing)? Do you prefer thicker or thinner blades? Do you prefer durability or précision? Do you prefer a longer or shorter chef's knife? What other knives do you currently have?
I have a garbage knife that I sharpen with one of those cheap pull through sharpeners. It works surprisingly well honestly but I'm looking for an upgrade.
I usually just push through as I'm mostly cutting vegetables, but sometimes I cut meat that I rock through. I think I prefer durability over everything because I don't require anything too precise. I honestly don't know if I prefer longer or shorter, I've never used anything other than the 10 dollar special knives you get at a thrift store haha
Ok. Generally speaking, your answers suggest that you'll be happier with a western-style knife. Zwilling, henckel, wusthof and Victorinox all fit into that category. There really aren't that many differences between those four brands, so get something that looks good to you. I happened to see that zwilling
(https://www.zwilling.com/us/zwilling-pro-7-inch-slim-chefs-knife-38431-182/38431-182-0.html?cgid=cutlery_chefs-knives)[has a chef's] for about half off right now, putting it nicely into your price range. If I were going to get a western style knife, it'd be that one.
If you have a kitchen store near you - Sur la table is a good example - they'll let you try out a few knives.
Edit: fuck it, I can't get the link to work. You get the picture.
FYI, the link does work despite the incorrect formatting. You've just got the syntax flipped. It's
[text here](url here).For what it's worth, I have that exact knife and I've been very happy with it.
I have two other Zwilling knives in different sizes as well and I've been equally happy with them.
One thing to watch for with those V-groove sharpeners is that you eventually wear a notch where the two blades cross. Thereafter, every time you run your knife through the sharpener, you actually blunt the edge rather than sharpen it.
Consider upgrading your sharpener before you upgrade your knife. You might find that the knife suddenly starts cutting a lot better.
It kinda sorta doesn't matter. As others have mentioned, the fundamental thing that makes a knife useful is it's sharpness, and that's something you can affect yourself by learning how to sharpen a blade. When I was younger and dumber I marvled at how the cheap knives at the dollar stores were sharper than my grandmother's expensive knife set, but now I understand it's just because her knives were never properly sharpened. Commercial kitchens tend to just use ultra-cheap knives they get at the restaurant supply stores.
That being said, there's a lot of improvements to be made in terms of preference. How do you cut? If you do mainly chopping, you might appreciate a flat-bladed knife with a round handle. Do you lever one end and chop with the handle? Then you'll want a curved blade. Do you want to hold the blade while cutting for more control? Get a thicker blade with a knuckle rest that butts against the blade.
I don't usually recommend this because you'll end up spending more money then you really need to, but you might want to go to a specialty store where you can actually try out a few of them, something like William Sonoma or Sur la Table. Just remember that you are not testing for sharpness, you are testing for feel.
Henckels has a three knife set (8" chef, 6" utility, and paring) for $100 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009MGN3W/). I got it a month ago and I am pretty happy with it. Are they as nice as the $300+ single Chef knives I was ogling? No. They are; however, a nice step up in quality over what I had though and I think they will do well for me for a long time.
Something to keep in mind re: Henkels, is that there are two levels to their knives. The ones with the single 'man' logo are generally stamped steel, and of lower overall quality that the double 'man' ones. That said, the best way to find a good knife is to go into a shop and try them out for feel. House of Knives is a specialty store here in Canada that carries most of the good brands, and they have no problem letting you test drive them in store. If you have a local analogue, I'd suggest starting there and getting a feel for what you like.
the Seki knives from sk2excellent on ebay are great.
I wouldn't bother getting a set of knives. Get a good chef's knife (8"), a paring knife (global has a nice one), and a CCK / vegetable cleaver. The CCK is big and is such a joy to work with.
I got my CCK in chinatown for $16 then cleaned it up and gave it a good edge.. but you can buy them all pretty for cheap.
For a less mainstream (I think) brand, Chubo is a fantastic Japanese store. I bought the linked set from them with an added sharpening stone and they work like a dream. They also generally just have gorgeous knives beyond what I linked, for a surprisingly cheap price considering how good some of them look. The ones I linked are probably all the average home cook needs when it comes to chef knives though.
Also, these are western style knives meaning the edge is double sided, so you're not going to need to get used to a different kind of knife. If anything else on the website catches your eye I recommend making sure the edge type is to your liking before buying it.
Some general thoughts. When it comes to knives, maintenance is extremely important. Beyond cleaning and storage, learning to sharpen your knives is huge as a "cheap" knife that has been well maintained is infinitely better than a neglected "fancy" knife. Second given that you only want two-three knives, I suggest a 8" western style chefs knife and pairing knife, and then if you're doing a lot of vegetable prep, a Chinese vegetable cleaver or a Japanese nakiri. Basically versatile knives and not hyper specific things like a bread knife (though if you eat a ton of bread, it's probably worth investing in one).
As for recommendations, I always always recommend this Victorinox Chef's knife for first time buyers. It's an absolute workhorse of the industry because it's well balanced, inexpensive, can be beaten up, keeps its edge but can be resharpened easily to regain the edge. It's a great knife to learn how to sharpen with as well. I know for a fact that my 40 Victorinox is sharper than my friends 200 japanese knife simply because I maintain my knives way better.
As for personal recommendations, I prefer German knives over Japanese knives as I find them easier to sharpen ( just used to the 15 degree angle) and easier to maintain (stainless steel instead of carbon steel). I currently use this one from Messermesister and it replaced an older Henkels Twin Star that I had for over a decade.
If you do go Japanese, my partner has smaller hands and prefers a shorter knife which means they use this Shun 7" chef's knife. I find it's length and weight a little unusual but I can't deny how sharp it stays. They do chip easier (it was dropped once and the tip chipped) but it's quite lovely to use whenever I do actually use it.
Finally, there are some great smaller retailers doing sales for knives. For example, I've used Cultery and More a few times and right now they're having a black friday sale. My general thought,and someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that you can probably get better knives by buying individually and spending a little more money than buying a 2-3 piece set.
There's a lot of good advice here, but I disagree with your comment about bread knives. It's worth getting a bread knife because there's basically no substitute for it - cutting a hard-crusted bread like a baguette or a sourdough really sucks without a bread knife. By contrast, a Chinese cleaver or nakiri are only slightly better than a chef's knife at cutting vegetables (I have and love both).
All good points. I have a small serrated utility knife that I use as a "bread knife" that gets the job done. It's not nearly as good as an actual bread knife but it's not bad enough for me to consider going out to buy a bread knife. That's mainly my experience though.
As for the CCK or nakiri, you're right as well. It's just every time I do a ton of a prep when using one, I think to myself "why don't I own one of these".
Yeah, I have to actively restrain myself from recommending Chinese cleavers to people because I love mine. Technically it's more like a supertall nakiri.
Check out daovua on chefknivestogo.com. You can get a legit carbon steel cleaver for less than $100.
Victorianox, motion carried.
To be contrarian however... If you're in the states, look for Wasabi knives. They're better than whatever's at Walmart and won't cost a million dollars.
For knife sharpening, buy the Trizor XV