58 votes

There is no evidence that CBD products reduce chronic pain, and taking them is a waste of money and potentially harmful to health, new research finds

22 comments

  1. [13]
    fastpicket
    Link
    I know I'm not the only person on Tildes living with chronic pain, so I found this of interest. I'll fully admit my bias that this study (which seems sound) aligns with my experience of spending...

    I know I'm not the only person on Tildes living with chronic pain, so I found this of interest. I'll fully admit my bias that this study (which seems sound) aligns with my experience of spending hundreds of euros on CBD products, for no therapeutic effect.

    Whenever I tell the 'true believers' of CBD this, I'm confronted with 'you must have tried the wrong strain' (tried several), 'you must have taken it wrong' (I didn't), etc. Turns out the most likely answer is that it simply doesn't work, and for some people it can work as a placebo.

    There is no evidence that CBD products reduce chronic pain, and taking them is a waste of money and potentially harmful to health, according to new research led by the University of Bath.

    CBD (short for cannabidiol) is one of many chemicals found naturally in the cannabis plant. It’s a popular alternative treatment for pain and is readily available in shops and online in the form of oils, tinctures, vapes, topical creams, edibles (such as gummy bears) and soft drinks.

    ....

    “CBD presents consumers with a big problem,” said Professor Chris Eccleston, who led the research from the Centre for Pain Research at Bath. “It’s touted as a cure for all pain but there’s a complete lack of quality evidence that it has any positive effects.”

    He added: “It’s almost as if chronic pain patients don’t matter, and that we’re happy for people to trade on hope and despair.”

    For their study, published this week in The Journal of Pain, the team – which included researchers from the Universities of Bath, Oxford and Alberta in Canada – examined research relevant to using CBD to treat pain and published in scientific journals up to late 2023.

    They found:

    • CBD products sold direct to consumers contain varying amounts of CBD, from none to much more than advertised.

    • CBD products sold direct to consumers may contain chemicals other than CBD, some of which may be harmful and some illegal in some jurisdictions. Such chemicals include THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), the main psychoactive component of the cannabis plant.

    • Of the 16 randomised controlled trials that have explored the link between pain and pharmaceutical-grade CBD, 15 have shown no positive results, with CBD being no better than placebo at relieving pain.

    • A meta-analysis (which combines data from multiple studies and plays a fundamental role in evidence-based healthcare) links CBD to increased rates of serious adverse events, including liver toxicity.

    ...

    Dr Andrew Moore, study co-author and former senior pain researcher in the Nuffield Division of Anaesthetics at the University of Oxford, said: “For too many people with chronic pain, there’s no medicine that manages their pain. Chronic pain can be awful, so people are very motivated to find pain relief by any means. This makes them vulnerable to the wild promises made about CBD.”

    He added that healthcare regulators appear reluctant to act against the spurious claims made by some manufacturers of CBD products, possibly because they don’t want to interfere in a booming market (the global CBD product market was estimated at US$3 billion in 2021 or £2.4 billion and is anticipated to reach US$60 billion by 2030 or £48 billion) especially when the product on sale is widely regarded as harmless.

    ...

    “What this means is that there are no consumer protections,” said Dr Moore. “And without a countervailing body to keep the CBD sellers in check, it’s unlikely that the false promises being made about the analgesic effects of CBD will slow down in the years ahead.”

    The study’s authors are calling for chronic pain to be taken more seriously, with consumer protection becoming a priority.

    “Untreated chronic pain is known to seriously damage quality of life, and many people live with pain every day and for the rest of their lives,” said Professor Eccleston. “Pain deserves investment in serious science to find serious solutions.”

    I post this not to start an argument or invalidate anyone's solutions, as pain can be a very emotive topic. But many people are sold this product as a miracle cure-all, and it can be crushing to find out it's no more effective than drinking a glass of water - less, because a glass of water is good for your liver.

    I hope this research is of value to those who are trying to find solutions to manage their chronic pain disabilities. I hope you are all doing well ❤️

    54 votes
    1. FluffyKittens
      Link Parent
      Totally agreed - though in the US context, a lot of that sorta noise comes from people using 2018 Farm Bill hemp products (allowed to contain up to 0.3% THC - and possibly even more THCa...

      Whenever I tell the 'true believers' of CBD this, I'm confronted with 'you must have tried the wrong strain' (tried several), 'you must have taken it wrong' (I didn't), etc. Turns out the most likely answer is that it simply doesn't work, and for some people it can work as a placebo.

      Totally agreed - though in the US context, a lot of that sorta noise comes from people using 2018 Farm Bill hemp products (allowed to contain up to 0.3% THC - and possibly even more THCa originally IIRC?) and getting plain ol’ high. They’re marketed as CBD products and so people often falsely assume it’s the active ingredient.

      30 votes
    2. [3]
      BeardyHat
      Link Parent
      I feel like a lot of this is people's identity being wrapped up in their consumption habits. I was a weed smoker for many years, from about age 26 to 34, having received a medical licence for...

      Whenever I tell the 'true believers' of CBD this, I'm confronted with 'you must have tried the wrong strain' (tried several), 'you must have taken it wrong' (I didn't), etc. Turns out the most likely answer is that it simply doesn't work, and for some people it can work as a placebo.

      I feel like a lot of this is people's identity being wrapped up in their consumption habits. I was a weed smoker for many years, from about age 26 to 34, having received a medical licence for chronic pain I have in my knees and have had since I was a teen.

      Smoking regular weed, all strains, as well as using a topical CBD cream on my knees never did shit for me and yet I'd constantly have other stoners swear up and down I was using it wrong.

      I don't really have anything to add to this conversation other than being someone with chronic pain, who tried it out and otherwise enjoyed using weed for many years, but my chronic pain was never an excuse, because it never worked for me, even trying numerous different products and strains.

      16 votes
      1. [2]
        teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        Personally I'd say weed can be a mild distraction to mild pain. But definitely nothing like an actual painkiller.

        Personally I'd say weed can be a mild distraction to mild pain. But definitely nothing like an actual painkiller.

        5 votes
        1. BeardyHat
          Link Parent
          I definitely did help as a distraction, but generally I'd just end up taking Ibuprofen. Most of the time, I felt like weed would make me focus on the pain and it would throb, unlike when sober.

          I definitely did help as a distraction, but generally I'd just end up taking Ibuprofen. Most of the time, I felt like weed would make me focus on the pain and it would throb, unlike when sober.

          3 votes
    3. [5]
      Tigress
      Link Parent
      TBF, if it is working as a placebo effect, I'd say great. If all they need is management of pain and it works even if it is workign by placebo, it's still working for them, right? This isn't like...

      TBF, if it is working as a placebo effect, I'd say great. If all they need is management of pain and it works even if it is workign by placebo, it's still working for them, right? This isn't like where they need a curative but they just need something to make the pain manageable.

      That being said, great to have this study cause the little I've dealt with I can already see people who like it are stubbern about it (had a cat that had cancer and I just wanted to make her pain go away and everyone was swearing it worked for their pet but it did absolutely nothing for her sadly and you could tell people had a hard time hearing that when I told them after they recommended CBD oils).

      9 votes
      1. [4]
        unkz
        Link Parent
        CBD isn’t cheap though, and the process of making it is a waste of resources that could be better spent elsewhere. I expect we could better use the $3b-$60b/year on better methods of controlling pain.

        CBD isn’t cheap though, and the process of making it is a waste of resources that could be better spent elsewhere. I expect we could better use the $3b-$60b/year on better methods of controlling pain.

        13 votes
        1. [3]
          arch
          Link Parent
          Like what, though? We've had recent studies that show acetaminophen may be no better than placebo. Ibuprofen can lead to stomach, liver, kidney, and heart complications. Opioids have even more...

          Like what, though? We've had recent studies that show acetaminophen may be no better than placebo. Ibuprofen can lead to stomach, liver, kidney, and heart complications. Opioids have even more side effects.

          We don't really have any good options for long term pain management, it's all palliative care if you can't cure the underlying issue directly. Taking Vicodin daily is probably going to have more complications than CBD or THC.

          12 votes
          1. unkz
            Link Parent
            Right, which is why it would be a great use of all that money to be spent on government grants for research into pain research. Preferably with public ownership of any results instead of feeding...

            Right, which is why it would be a great use of all that money to be spent on government grants for research into pain research. Preferably with public ownership of any results instead of feeding it to the pharma corps.

            6 votes
          2. sparksbet
            Link Parent
            You mention THC later in this very comment. That's a pretty obvious "like what" here.

            Like what, though?

            You mention THC later in this very comment. That's a pretty obvious "like what" here.

            2 votes
    4. Habituallytired
      Link Parent
      I appreciate the post and this take. I've found that you're right with CBD itself not really treating anything or helping the pain that I live with. Honestly, the majority of it is the THC in the...

      I appreciate the post and this take. I've found that you're right with CBD itself not really treating anything or helping the pain that I live with. Honestly, the majority of it is the THC in the products I use makes me stop caring about the pain that I experience every day.

      I do appreciate a good placebo though, and I will take that over something that's unregulated - I won't use products that say they're CBD if they're not sold from a dispensary.

      I hope you're feeling better today than you were yesterday. <3

      2 votes
    5. Wafik
      Link Parent
      Thanks for sharing. I'll admit I just assumed CBD worked because why even bother if you don't get high like you do with THC. Ignorance is bliss. I hope you have found a way to manage it that does...

      Thanks for sharing. I'll admit I just assumed CBD worked because why even bother if you don't get high like you do with THC. Ignorance is bliss.

      I hope you have found a way to manage it that does work for you!

      1 vote
    6. dirthawker
      Link Parent
      Thanks for the post. I'm just one more anecdotal data point, but CBD did nothing for my lower back pain either. It's good to know I shouldn't bother trying a lot of different types.

      Thanks for the post. I'm just one more anecdotal data point, but CBD did nothing for my lower back pain either. It's good to know I shouldn't bother trying a lot of different types.

      1 vote
  2. [2]
    patience_limited
    (edited )
    Link
    It's important to keep in mind that CBD is, pharmacologically speaking, a very blunt instrument. It's got many demonstrable effects, even if direct alleviation of chronic pain isn't among them....

    It's important to keep in mind that CBD is, pharmacologically speaking, a very blunt instrument. It's got many demonstrable effects, even if direct alleviation of chronic pain isn't among them. CBD has been studied as a modulator of undesirable effects from THC, which is an effective pain reliever. There's also middling-good evidence from animal and clinical studies that CBD can reduce anxiety and depression.

    From this review paper, which is one of the better recent discussions of CBD's psychopharmacology:

    CBD has the peculiarity of acting on more than 65 key targets, including the serotonin 1A receptor (5-HT1A), the cannabinoid-related receptors G protein-coupled receptor 55 (GPR55), transient receptor potential vanilloid 1 (TRPV1), type 1 equilibrative nucleoside transporter (ETN1), fatty acid-binding protein (FABP), nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (NRF2), voltage-activated T-type calcium channels, adenosine and glycine receptors, mu and delta opioid receptors, and voltage-dependent anion channel 1 (VDAC1), among others [64].

    It's also difficult to study a potential drug that has non-linear pharmacokinetics. CBD's effects seem to peak at intermediate doses:

    The potential anxiolytic and antidepressant properties of CBD have been examined in several animal models since the late 1970s. Although preliminary findings were contradictory [95,96], subsequent dose-response studies showed that CBD induced an anxiolytic-like effect, which followed an inverted U-shaped curve, resulting effective at intermediate doses but not at low or high doses [97,98,99].

    All this being said, cannabidiol isn't a good drug. It's got many different effects and it's too hard to dose reliably (especially with street quality). CBD interacts with multiple other drug families, and the risks are unpredictable in the broader human population without medical supervision.

    [Disclosure: I have used commercial full-spectrum hemp tinctures titrated for standardized CBD concentration, theoretically pure CBD, and THC:CBD products. I've noticed mild anxiety reduction from doses ~20 mg CBD, but the pure CBD is harder to work with. For me, 5:1 CBD/THC seems to be a sweet spot for THC pain relief and sleep without excessive psychoactive effects.

    Honestly, I don't mess with cannabinoids much anymore because I got an actually effective treatment for the underlying autoimmune disease, but it has drug interactions with almost everything. YMMV.]

    28 votes
    1. imperator
      Link Parent
      For my sleep it's the ratio and the the inclusion of CBN. I cut the gummies into thirds if I've had a particularly stressful day and know in advance I'll struggle sleeping. So I use it maybe 4-5...

      For my sleep it's the ratio and the the inclusion of CBN. I cut the gummies into thirds if I've had a particularly stressful day and know in advance I'll struggle sleeping. So I use it maybe 4-5 times a month. But it's a very low dose like 3mg of THC and I think 6mg of CBD then 6 of CBN. I barely feel it, although I get dry mouth with any THC. But it's enough to get me to sleep and mostly stay asleep. Works way better than melatonin, yoga, alcohol, Benadryl...

      9 votes
  3. TallUntidyGothGF
    Link
    Meanwhile the evidence for efficacy of cannabis products containing THC seems strong, and usually show better efficacy with greater ratio of THC to CBD. I think the principle that the medical...

    Meanwhile the evidence for efficacy of cannabis products containing THC seems strong, and usually show better efficacy with greater ratio of THC to CBD. I think the principle that the medical establishment is working under is that psychoactive = bad, but I suspect it turns out that for many indications the beneficial effects of cannabis are not entirely separable from its psychoactive effects. I think this is also true of opioids.

    26 votes
  4. V17
    Link
    I thought it was general knowledge by now that for pain you need either THC or CBD+THC and pure CBD advocates usually talk about other benefits than pain? Either way, nice to have some data about...

    I thought it was general knowledge by now that for pain you need either THC or CBD+THC and pure CBD advocates usually talk about other benefits than pain? Either way, nice to have some data about it I guess.

    15 votes
  5. [5]
    arch
    (edited )
    Link
    This seems to be the section pertaining to linking CBD to adverse health effects. I only quoted the first paragraph of this section, because the following two or three paragraphs are solely about...

    This seems to be the section pertaining to linking CBD to adverse health effects. I only quoted the first paragraph of this section, because the following two or three paragraphs are solely about the risk and increase of car accidents, and their increase following marijuana legalization.

    Is Pharmaceutical Grade CBD Safe?
    This is at best uncertain, but a 2019 systematic review of
    CBD adverse events and toxicity in animals and humans
    concluded that it was not risk-free.52 Uncertainty also
    arises because of the relatively small numbers of patients
    in these trials and partly because of inadequacies in re-
    porting adverse events.53,54 A meta-analysis of CBD used
    for epilepsy found that 10% of patients treated with CBD
    had at least 1 adverse event, twice the rate for placebo
    and that the risk ratio for serious adverse events was 3.4.55
    There appears to be CBD-related hepatotoxicity, with
    elevated liver enzymes in about 7% of patients using CBD,
    much higher than the rate with placebo.56 Veterans using
    cannabinoids for chronic pain have an increased risk of
    cannabis use disorder.57

    Here is a link to the article they are citing with their statement on liver toxicity. I have so far only skimmed the article's abstract, but it appears to only note effects at doses <300mg daily and also references antiepileptic drug use in conjunction with CBD as a compounding factor. To go from this to stating that any CBD use is a risk to your liver is a stretch, and I'd argue could be at worst fear-mongering.

    For a little understanding of my personal biases: I take CBD currently for its affects on my mood, and its help with my anxiety. I do intend to get off it, but I am learning to live with an autoimmune disease and coping with anxiety disorder at the moment, while I wait for testing for ADHD, so I'm gripping on to anything that can help me while I wait extended periods of time for additional help from our medical establishment. This has so far been a 5 years process for me, 3 of which were me being in a great deal of daily pain and discomfort while being told I did not have anything wrong with me, before I was able to diagnose myself with an autoimmune disease by ordering followup blood tests for myself. I am admittedly a little jaded that the medical system has my best interest in mind at least diagnostically.

    13 votes
    1. [2]
      patience_limited
      Link Parent
      I was in a situation similar to yours, and I'm sorry to hear you're still suffering. Nonetheless, I'd be very cautious about CBD use in conjunction with other drugs. The review paper I referenced...

      I was in a situation similar to yours, and I'm sorry to hear you're still suffering. Nonetheless, I'd be very cautious about CBD use in conjunction with other drugs. The review paper I referenced mentions that CBD interacts strongly with liver enzymes:

      It is also interesting to highlight that CBD is a potent competitive inhibitor of certain cytochrome P450 isoforms (CYP2C and CYP3A) increasing the risk of drug-interactions when is given together with other drugs metabolized by these enzymes [53,59,60].

      This kind of interaction can cause higher or lower than expected blood concentrations of medications, and enhance toxic side effects like liver injury. I've said it before elsewhere, but talk to your healthcare provider about everything you take.

      10 votes
      1. arch
        Link Parent
        Thank you for your reply and sympathy. I'm glad to hear that you have other treatment options prescribed to you that work better for you. For the most part I do too, but it is a process that can...

        Thank you for your reply and sympathy. I'm glad to hear that you have other treatment options prescribed to you that work better for you. For the most part I do too, but it is a process that can take a year or more and I'm still not there yet. That said, I am very cautious, and I'm fortunately not on any medication that affects my liver. I am also very upfront with my doctors about everything I take.

        9 votes
    2. Habituallytired
      Link Parent
      I've experienced the same thing with the medical system. There just isn't any actually want to help patients in pain with something "difficult" to diagnose. I finally got my DX, by ruling out many...

      I've experienced the same thing with the medical system. There just isn't any actually want to help patients in pain with something "difficult" to diagnose. I finally got my DX, by ruling out many things myself and taking it to a new doctor, but I think I would still be in my same situation if I didn't get new doctors.

      I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you to get that ADHD DX, it changed my life too. ❤️❤️❤️

      3 votes
    3. nosewings
      Link Parent
      I just want to vocalize a similar experience. I have a chronic pain condition that I simply cannot seem to get doctors to take seriously because every test they give comes back normal, and they...

      I just want to vocalize a similar experience. I have a chronic pain condition that I simply cannot seem to get doctors to take seriously because every test they give comes back normal, and they seem to have no interest in pursuing it.

      1 vote