Seems like medical science clearly shows that we'd benefit most from a permanent switch to Standard Time. Some people really hate the idea of losing an hour of daylight at the end of the day in...
Seems like medical science clearly shows that we'd benefit most from a permanent switch to Standard Time.
Some people really hate the idea of losing an hour of daylight at the end of the day in winter summer though, even if it means they wake up and go to work in the dark more often.
I really don't care which one we switch to, we should just pick one and stop changing. It's annoying. AZ has no DST and I didn't miss it The entire 10yr I was there. I mean, this seems obvious? If...
I really don't care which one we switch to, we should just pick one and stop changing. It's annoying. AZ has no DST and I didn't miss it The entire 10yr I was there.
In the Washington area, some schools delayed their start times until the sun caught up with the clock.
I mean, this seems obvious? If DST is made permanent, some of the established habits need to change also. If the overall effect is good, some temporary discomfort while adapting would be worth it. As opposed to now, where we routinely disrupt ourselves twice a year for very questionable benefits.
This is very region (or more specifically latitude) dependent. The more you move towards the equatorial regions, the less consensual eliminating DST becomes because those places actually do care...
This is very region (or more specifically latitude) dependent. The more you move towards the equatorial regions, the less consensual eliminating DST becomes because those places actually do care about maximizing hours in the sun.
We tried in my country (Portugal) 3 different times across 80 or so years to get rid of DST (switching either to permanent summer or permanent winter) and each time people hated it, either because we had to take kids to school and drive to work during the dark and no one likes that (not to mention the increase in traffic accidents), or because we lost our 8-9 PM sun hours, which is very culturally significant and something people like to make use of. So even though we really tried, we always reverted a few years later.
I actually found our government funded a study back in 2019 to make sure if eliminating DST was beneficial, and from all the data gathered across all the times we removed DST vs the data we have from having DST, it was pretty easy to conclude that, for our country specifically, having DST provided the most benefit for our population. I staunchly defended getting rid of DST back then but after carefully reading the study and analyzing all that data even I had to admit it makes sense for us to keep it, even if I get a little groggy whenever the hour changes. The benefits of DST here are just undeniable.
All this to say that removing DST is not an objectively good thing across the world, it all depends on where you live and what the daily rhythm of your country is like.
Interesting. I guess up north here (in ND) its less of an issue because even with DST the sun still sets by 6 for a good portion of the year, and we still have to go to work and school in the dark.
Interesting. I guess up north here (in ND) its less of an issue because even with DST the sun still sets by 6 for a good portion of the year, and we still have to go to work and school in the dark.
Indiana didn't have it for a while and it was great. However, it caused a lot of complications with commerce of the neighboring (larger) states, so they ended up bringing it back. I'd love to see...
Indiana didn't have it for a while and it was great. However, it caused a lot of complications with commerce of the neighboring (larger) states, so they ended up bringing it back. I'd love to see it nationwide.
When I wake up I’m barely awake. I’m not really using any daylight to its full potential first thing in the morning. However I am very much awake at 4:30 pm, which when the sun goes down in the...
When I wake up I’m barely awake. I’m not really using any daylight to its full potential first thing in the morning. However I am very much awake at 4:30 pm, which when the sun goes down in the winter time. Do you have any idea how depressing it is to leave for work before sunrise and go home after sunset, spending every single daylight hour inside my job and therefor not in the daylight? Let me have a measly fuckin hour at the end of the day.
This is why I just stopped paying attention to it and stay in Summer Time all year. I'm lucky enough to have flexible hours at my job though. My seasonal depression magically disappeared!
This is why I just stopped paying attention to it and stay in Summer Time all year. I'm lucky enough to have flexible hours at my job though. My seasonal depression magically disappeared!
Yes, this is exactly the problem. Mornings have no value for me because they are taken up with preparation for work and dealing with a chronic medical issue that is worse for me in the AM. The...
Yes, this is exactly the problem. Mornings have no value for me because they are taken up with preparation for work and dealing with a chronic medical issue that is worse for me in the AM. The longer the light lasts, the more chance I have to actually take a short hike in the woods after work, or at least run an errand, instead of feeling like the day is done and there's nothing to do except stuff my face and try to go to sleep (which I generally fail at). Plus in my area, morning rush hour is always less aggressive than evening (Maybe because people don't feel as pressed to get to work as they do to squeeze in their daily personal activities or just get home to rest?), so I prefer when the PM rush is not also in the dark.
Cities already have municipal codes on when those activities are allowed. There's zero reason we can't make those regulations seasonal. Or even better, maybe we could live more accordance with...
Cities already have municipal codes on when those activities are allowed. There's zero reason we can't make those regulations seasonal. Or even better, maybe we could live more accordance with seasonal changes in daylight than a rigid clock. Why should schools and businesses start at the same time all through the year? Sure, it's a bit more effort to keep track of things, but we don't live in 1900 anymore. Businesses, schools, and shops could all have dynamic hours that change with the seasons, and we can coordinate everything with the digital planning and calendar tools we already have.
Really, the very idea of daylight savings time is an anachronism at this point. It's something that made sense for the primitive world of 19th century train schedules and factories, but we've advanced beyond that.
Or, if we simply must have a clock that everyone can use to coordinate, maybe we should go back further to the Roman system. We could divide the day into 12 hours, with the Sun always rising at 6 AM and always setting at 6 PM. The length of an "hour" becomes seasonal, longer in the summer and longer in the summer. This would even be a great boon for the environment, as work hours and production would be lower in winter and greater in summer, corresponding to the availability of solar energy. This is ultimately how human beings were meant to live, in tune and according to the seasons. Again, such dynamic timekeeping would have been difficult in the backwards era of 19th stopwatches. But since everyone just uses their phones now for timekeeping anyway, it would be trivial to have the length of hours vary with the year. Communicating and scheduling meetings across time zones would be trickier, but again, trivial with the kind of tech we have now. We already have scheduling apps that correct for time zones when coordinating across them, and it would be possible to implement this with varying day lengths as well.
Would it require some adjustment? Certainly. But wouldn't it be worth it if we could all return to living according to proper Circadian rhythms? Companies might lament shorter working time in the winter, but they're always looking for something to whine about. They'll get less work out of their workers in winter and more in summer. It all balances out in the end.
Wouldn't seasonal hour changes of schools and businesses be pretty much the same situation we have now? Schools hours would shift an hour a couple times per year. People would have to get up...
Wouldn't seasonal hour changes of schools and businesses be pretty much the same situation we have now? Schools hours would shift an hour a couple times per year. People would have to get up earlier or later by an hour to prep their kids for school. Except instead of everyone doing it at the same time, every municipality would be deciding their own rules which could get hectic pretty quickly.
We already have that throughout much of Canada, they still don't start working until about 6, 6:30. Doesn't mean the rest of the continent wouldn't though...
We already have that throughout much of Canada, they still don't start working until about 6, 6:30.
Doesn't mean the rest of the continent wouldn't though...
Sure, sounds fine to me. I never really understood this argument. Time is all relative anyway. The only fixed point in the day is noon being when the sun is highest in the sky. That is mostly...
Sure, sounds fine to me. I never really understood this argument. Time is all relative anyway. The only fixed point in the day is noon being when the sun is highest in the sky. That is mostly thrown out with timezones being an hour wide, and entirely thrown out with DST. So what if the sun comes up at 1:00 am or 6:00 pm. People are more adaptable than they give themselves credit for. We can adjust our concept of time. If the sun really does rise at 4:15 in June, start your day at 5 or 6 and go to sleep at 8 or 9.
I know I could never get people to agree with me, but I would be happy if we just got rid of timezones and used UTC around the world. Here in PST land, I would start work at 16:00 and get off at 0:00. Sounds good to me! Specific times of day stopped being meaningful decades ago. Let’s stop pretending like they still have meaning.
Funny enough, I currently live in a place permanently on Standard time, and I do often wake up to the sound of construction. I've lived in several places that stay on Standard and some that...
Funny enough, I currently live in a place permanently on Standard time, and I do often wake up to the sound of construction.
I've lived in several places that stay on Standard and some that switch. On balance, I prefer not having to switch.
I've never understood that one. The EU voted to get rid of Daylight Savings years ago but who knows when that actually happens. I really hope it's permanent Standard Time rather than permanent...
I've never understood that one.
The EU voted to get rid of Daylight Savings years ago but who knows when that actually happens. I really hope it's permanent Standard Time rather than permanent Summer Time, but I'm biased bc of my connections to the US.
I will die on this hill, because I can’t understand why, rather than move an hour twice a year, we couldn’t put it halfway (half an hour) in between and call it a day.
I will die on this hill, because I can’t understand why, rather than move an hour twice a year, we couldn’t put it halfway (half an hour) in between and call it a day.
As a software developer who would need to deal with the side effects of shifting everything 30 minutes, I would like to propose capital punishment for anyone who seriously proposes this ;)
As a software developer who would need to deal with the side effects of shifting everything 30 minutes, I would like to propose capital punishment for anyone who seriously proposes this ;)
If you haven’t encountered these amazing edge cases yet, I hope you enjoy: The half hour time zone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_Time_Zone Saskatchewan time, which depends on the...
If you haven’t encountered these amazing edge cases yet, I hope you enjoy:
Yep, I've had to deal with global time code before and seen some of the weird cases. It would actually likely break less than I imply just because support is already baked in to a lot of OS... but...
Yep, I've had to deal with global time code before and seen some of the weird cases. It would actually likely break less than I imply just because support is already baked in to a lot of OS... but it would still break a lot!
Indiana was one of the weird cases as well at one point in time. Most of the state was Eastern Time (it's pretty much the westernmost part of US Eastern Time), with no DST, so the time was constant all year. Except a few counties in the southwest. And US national government facilities, which kept doing DST even when the surrounding county didn't, including some MAJOR local employers - there's a US Navy testing and R&D range in southern Indiana, NSWC Crane, that employs thousands of people, which went on DST even though none of the local population centers did.
Jesus. Everyone is a special flower. I started to chuckle at the software issues around this predicting the direction it was headed- but the specificity, locality, and weird granularity of your...
Jesus. Everyone is a special flower. I started to chuckle at the software issues around this predicting the direction it was headed- but the specificity, locality, and weird granularity of your comment really elevated it to a whole other level.
As a guy who manages Global Data Infrastructure, get in line. That being said, China deciding "This is China time" is unbeliably hilarious to try and work with. You can have items being shipped...
As a guy who manages Global Data Infrastructure, get in line.
That being said, China deciding "This is China time" is unbeliably hilarious to try and work with. You can have items being shipped (from outside of China) BEFORE they're registered as an item to a customer. It can get quite funny.
Eh, it wouldn't be unprecedented. I remember when they changed the dates for DST in 2006 or so, we had to do a bunch of manual patching. Vendors that no longer supported older versions of server...
Eh, it wouldn't be unprecedented. I remember when they changed the dates for DST in 2006 or so, we had to do a bunch of manual patching. Vendors that no longer supported older versions of server software issued patches anyway.
[My] key takeaway from this post: What a shallow, uncomprehensive treatment of [both sides of] the debate (over whether to continue semi-annual DST changes). So much more could be said about...
[My] key takeaway from this post: What a shallow, uncomprehensive treatment of [both sides of] the debate (over whether to continue semi-annual DST changes). So much more could be said about either side (especially in favour of discontinuing DST changes), and even 15 minutes websearching would reveal more.
Seeing period specific commentary like this always blows my mind. A federal official is talking matter-of-factually about people having had a couple drinks before their drive home......
but longer daylight hours could mean eliminating the hazards of evening commutes: “stress, anxiety, and many drivers have had a couple of drinks,” as he told the Post.
Seeing period specific commentary like this always blows my mind. A federal official is talking matter-of-factually about people having had a couple drinks before their drive home...
Drinking/driving laws and seat belt laws are two great examples of the general public have absolutely no clue what is or isn't good for them and the governments role in forcing change upon them. I'm not saying every freedom the government takes away is validated, but there are clear examples of us losing freedoms that are good.
All this happened before, all this happened again. Americans in the 70s hated changing clocks too. President Nixon accommodated them and put the U.S. on permanent Daylight Savings Time. Americans...
All this happened before, all this happened again. Americans in the 70s hated changing clocks too. President Nixon accommodated them and put the U.S. on permanent Daylight Savings Time. Americans hated it so much it was voted out.
Nobody should ever be awake at 4 AM. Meanwhile, the northern states have the sun set at 4-5PM with the current situation. Permanent DST would maximize useful daylight hours for the northern...
Nobody should ever be awake at 4 AM.
Meanwhile, the northern states have the sun set at 4-5PM with the current situation. Permanent DST would maximize useful daylight hours for the northern hemisphere, which would have public health benefits.
Personally I'd love to have New England at UTC-3 for exactly that reason, which I know isn't even part of the conversation but I can dream. It's always a downer to have it be completely dark by...
Personally I'd love to have New England at UTC-3 for exactly that reason, which I know isn't even part of the conversation but I can dream. It's always a downer to have it be completely dark by the time I'm off of work for the day (5 PM!) for the next few months.
As someone who often has to clock into their job at 4am, neither do I. I never see daylight when I'm heading into work (aside from the earliest bits of twilight for a week or so around the summer...
As someone who often has to clock into their job at 4am, neither do I. I never see daylight when I'm heading into work (aside from the earliest bits of twilight for a week or so around the summer solstice), and it really doesn't make a difference. Having it be dark before 5pm in December absolutely decimates my moods, however.
I'd be pushing for my state to move up a time zone if we got stuck with permanent standard time, and I live at the reference longitude for my current time zone, even.
I'm just going to put this out there: the US and Canada swapped to the metric system in the 70s, and the Americans decided they didn't like it. Canada, on the other hand, now uses a better...
I'm just going to put this out there: the US and Canada swapped to the metric system in the 70s, and the Americans decided they didn't like it. Canada, on the other hand, now uses a better measurement system, and I'm stuck knowing that one system makes sense and I'd prefer to use it, but my country is full of whinging folks who crybaby when things get a little difficult. (Apologies for the rant, but... seriously, metric makes more sense. Except temperature, but that's because I was raised with some lady's abnormally hot body temp being 100 degF and it's kind of a thought process to correlate that with 32, 212, and Celcius.)
Okay, maybe an exaggeration, but seriously - "the American people in the 70s" isn't going to be a selling point for me, nor is it being sold by the Nixon administration deciding Americans can't handle it. The fact is, if you didn't know the difference, you wouldn't object.
The one minor benefit to US measurements is that thirds and sixths are far more likely to be an integer multiple of the next smallest unit instead of ⅓ of a km being 333.33333… m Also, length...
The one minor benefit to US measurements is that thirds and sixths are far more likely to be an integer multiple of the next smallest unit instead of ⅓ of a km being 333.33333… m
Also, length measurements in the UK are bizarre. When I studied there a decade ago, they used miles and yards (never feet) for distance and meters for height; liquid was in liters (except for the proper-size pint); weight was either kilos or stone (never pounds)
How often do you need a precise measurement of a third of something? Surely you could just say "300 metres" and for all intents and purposes it would be the same.
How often do you need a precise measurement of a third of something? Surely you could just say "300 metres" and for all intents and purposes it would be the same.
"The human society at the time preferred to play with time as a means of command over their inclinations and prowess of the universe, we don't quite know the practical reasoning behind this...
"The human society at the time preferred to play with time as a means of command over their inclinations and prowess of the universe, we don't quite know the practical reasoning behind this strange and convoluted ritual of might, but they, twice a year, tended to shift their clocks and repeat or move forward an hour of time in the dead of night against all better judgement." — Likely written on the tapestries on the horrors and tribulations of past civilizations, c. 2100+.
Seems like medical science clearly shows that we'd benefit most from a permanent switch to Standard Time.
Some people really hate the idea of losing an hour of daylight at the end of the day in
wintersummer though, even if it means they wake up and go to work in the dark more often.I really don't care which one we switch to, we should just pick one and stop changing. It's annoying. AZ has no DST and I didn't miss it The entire 10yr I was there.
I mean, this seems obvious? If DST is made permanent, some of the established habits need to change also. If the overall effect is good, some temporary discomfort while adapting would be worth it. As opposed to now, where we routinely disrupt ourselves twice a year for very questionable benefits.
This is very region (or more specifically latitude) dependent. The more you move towards the equatorial regions, the less consensual eliminating DST becomes because those places actually do care about maximizing hours in the sun.
We tried in my country (Portugal) 3 different times across 80 or so years to get rid of DST (switching either to permanent summer or permanent winter) and each time people hated it, either because we had to take kids to school and drive to work during the dark and no one likes that (not to mention the increase in traffic accidents), or because we lost our 8-9 PM sun hours, which is very culturally significant and something people like to make use of. So even though we really tried, we always reverted a few years later.
I actually found our government funded a study back in 2019 to make sure if eliminating DST was beneficial, and from all the data gathered across all the times we removed DST vs the data we have from having DST, it was pretty easy to conclude that, for our country specifically, having DST provided the most benefit for our population. I staunchly defended getting rid of DST back then but after carefully reading the study and analyzing all that data even I had to admit it makes sense for us to keep it, even if I get a little groggy whenever the hour changes. The benefits of DST here are just undeniable.
All this to say that removing DST is not an objectively good thing across the world, it all depends on where you live and what the daily rhythm of your country is like.
Interesting. I guess up north here (in ND) its less of an issue because even with DST the sun still sets by 6 for a good portion of the year, and we still have to go to work and school in the dark.
Why not change the start hours for school instead of changing the time keeping system for everyone?
Indiana didn't have it for a while and it was great. However, it caused a lot of complications with commerce of the neighboring (larger) states, so they ended up bringing it back. I'd love to see it nationwide.
When I wake up I’m barely awake. I’m not really using any daylight to its full potential first thing in the morning. However I am very much awake at 4:30 pm, which when the sun goes down in the winter time. Do you have any idea how depressing it is to leave for work before sunrise and go home after sunset, spending every single daylight hour inside my job and therefor not in the daylight? Let me have a measly fuckin hour at the end of the day.
This is why I just stopped paying attention to it and stay in Summer Time all year. I'm lucky enough to have flexible hours at my job though. My seasonal depression magically disappeared!
Yes, this is exactly the problem. Mornings have no value for me because they are taken up with preparation for work and dealing with a chronic medical issue that is worse for me in the AM. The longer the light lasts, the more chance I have to actually take a short hike in the woods after work, or at least run an errand, instead of feeling like the day is done and there's nothing to do except stuff my face and try to go to sleep (which I generally fail at). Plus in my area, morning rush hour is always less aggressive than evening (Maybe because people don't feel as pressed to get to work as they do to squeeze in their daily personal activities or just get home to rest?), so I prefer when the PM rush is not also in the dark.
Do you really want sunrise at 4:15 AM in June?
I'm sure gardeners with lawn mowers and construction works will take advantage of that.
Cities already have municipal codes on when those activities are allowed. There's zero reason we can't make those regulations seasonal. Or even better, maybe we could live more accordance with seasonal changes in daylight than a rigid clock. Why should schools and businesses start at the same time all through the year? Sure, it's a bit more effort to keep track of things, but we don't live in 1900 anymore. Businesses, schools, and shops could all have dynamic hours that change with the seasons, and we can coordinate everything with the digital planning and calendar tools we already have.
Really, the very idea of daylight savings time is an anachronism at this point. It's something that made sense for the primitive world of 19th century train schedules and factories, but we've advanced beyond that.
Or, if we simply must have a clock that everyone can use to coordinate, maybe we should go back further to the Roman system. We could divide the day into 12 hours, with the Sun always rising at 6 AM and always setting at 6 PM. The length of an "hour" becomes seasonal, longer in the summer and longer in the summer. This would even be a great boon for the environment, as work hours and production would be lower in winter and greater in summer, corresponding to the availability of solar energy. This is ultimately how human beings were meant to live, in tune and according to the seasons. Again, such dynamic timekeeping would have been difficult in the backwards era of 19th stopwatches. But since everyone just uses their phones now for timekeeping anyway, it would be trivial to have the length of hours vary with the year. Communicating and scheduling meetings across time zones would be trickier, but again, trivial with the kind of tech we have now. We already have scheduling apps that correct for time zones when coordinating across them, and it would be possible to implement this with varying day lengths as well.
Would it require some adjustment? Certainly. But wouldn't it be worth it if we could all return to living according to proper Circadian rhythms? Companies might lament shorter working time in the winter, but they're always looking for something to whine about. They'll get less work out of their workers in winter and more in summer. It all balances out in the end.
Wouldn't seasonal hour changes of schools and businesses be pretty much the same situation we have now? Schools hours would shift an hour a couple times per year. People would have to get up earlier or later by an hour to prep their kids for school. Except instead of everyone doing it at the same time, every municipality would be deciding their own rules which could get hectic pretty quickly.
From this discussion, I was inspired to put together a blog post exploring the idea.
We already have that throughout much of Canada, they still don't start working until about 6, 6:30.
Doesn't mean the rest of the continent wouldn't though...
Sure, sounds fine to me. I never really understood this argument. Time is all relative anyway. The only fixed point in the day is noon being when the sun is highest in the sky. That is mostly thrown out with timezones being an hour wide, and entirely thrown out with DST. So what if the sun comes up at 1:00 am or 6:00 pm. People are more adaptable than they give themselves credit for. We can adjust our concept of time. If the sun really does rise at 4:15 in June, start your day at 5 or 6 and go to sleep at 8 or 9.
I know I could never get people to agree with me, but I would be happy if we just got rid of timezones and used UTC around the world. Here in PST land, I would start work at 16:00 and get off at 0:00. Sounds good to me! Specific times of day stopped being meaningful decades ago. Let’s stop pretending like they still have meaning.
Funny enough, I currently live in a place permanently on Standard time, and I do often wake up to the sound of construction.
I've lived in several places that stay on Standard and some that switch. On balance, I prefer not having to switch.
For clarity's sake: winter is already Standard Time. Switching to permeant standard time would have no change on the winter months.
You're totally right. Going to edit my post to reflect this.
I've never understood that one.
The EU voted to get rid of Daylight Savings years ago but who knows when that actually happens. I really hope it's permanent Standard Time rather than permanent Summer Time, but I'm biased bc of my connections to the US.
I will die on this hill, because I can’t understand why, rather than move an hour twice a year, we couldn’t put it halfway (half an hour) in between and call it a day.
As a software developer who would need to deal with the side effects of shifting everything 30 minutes, I would like to propose capital punishment for anyone who seriously proposes this ;)
If you haven’t encountered these amazing edge cases yet, I hope you enjoy:
The half hour time zone
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_Time_Zone
Saskatchewan time, which depends on the specific city within the province. Clocks only match across the province in the summer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Saskatchewan
Yep, I've had to deal with global time code before and seen some of the weird cases. It would actually likely break less than I imply just because support is already baked in to a lot of OS... but it would still break a lot!
Indiana was one of the weird cases as well at one point in time. Most of the state was Eastern Time (it's pretty much the westernmost part of US Eastern Time), with no DST, so the time was constant all year. Except a few counties in the southwest. And US national government facilities, which kept doing DST even when the surrounding county didn't, including some MAJOR local employers - there's a US Navy testing and R&D range in southern Indiana, NSWC Crane, that employs thousands of people, which went on DST even though none of the local population centers did.
Jesus. Everyone is a special flower. I started to chuckle at the software issues around this predicting the direction it was headed- but the specificity, locality, and weird granularity of your comment really elevated it to a whole other level.
Welcome to working with software that deals with worldwide time! :D It sometimes feels the exceptions are more the rule than the actual rules...
As a guy who manages Global Data Infrastructure, get in line.
That being said, China deciding "This is China time" is unbeliably hilarious to try and work with. You can have items being shipped (from outside of China) BEFORE they're registered as an item to a customer. It can get quite funny.
Eh, it wouldn't be unprecedented. I remember when they changed the dates for DST in 2006 or so, we had to do a bunch of manual patching. Vendors that no longer supported older versions of server software issued patches anyway.
[My] key takeaway from this post: What a shallow, uncomprehensive treatment of [both sides of] the debate (over whether to continue semi-annual DST changes). So much more could be said about either side (especially in favour of discontinuing DST changes), and even 15 minutes websearching would reveal more.
Seeing period specific commentary like this always blows my mind. A federal official is talking matter-of-factually about people having had a couple drinks before their drive home...
Drinking/driving laws and seat belt laws are two great examples of the general public have absolutely no clue what is or isn't good for them and the governments role in forcing change upon them. I'm not saying every freedom the government takes away is validated, but there are clear examples of us losing freedoms that are good.
Helmet laws also. I remember the controversy and anger from motorcyclists in California when those were introduced.
All this happened before, all this happened again. Americans in the 70s hated changing clocks too. President Nixon accommodated them and put the U.S. on permanent Daylight Savings Time. Americans hated it so much it was voted out.
As someone who rarely wakes up before 8:30, I do not see a problem with permanent daylight savings time.
Nobody should ever be awake at 4 AM.
Meanwhile, the northern states have the sun set at 4-5PM with the current situation. Permanent DST would maximize useful daylight hours for the northern hemisphere, which would have public health benefits.
As someone who frequently wakes up at 4 am without an alarm, I feel judged lol.
Personally I'd love to have New England at UTC-3 for exactly that reason, which I know isn't even part of the conversation but I can dream. It's always a downer to have it be completely dark by the time I'm off of work for the day (5 PM!) for the next few months.
As someone who often has to clock into their job at 4am, neither do I. I never see daylight when I'm heading into work (aside from the earliest bits of twilight for a week or so around the summer solstice), and it really doesn't make a difference. Having it be dark before 5pm in December absolutely decimates my moods, however.
I'd be pushing for my state to move up a time zone if we got stuck with permanent standard time, and I live at the reference longitude for my current time zone, even.
The 70s were also a very different time. We've come a long way.
If they hated it in the 70's its probably not a bad idea.
That's why the half-hour compromise is the winner.
I'm just going to put this out there: the US and Canada swapped to the metric system in the 70s, and the Americans decided they didn't like it. Canada, on the other hand, now uses a better measurement system, and I'm stuck knowing that one system makes sense and I'd prefer to use it, but my country is full of whinging folks who crybaby when things get a little difficult. (Apologies for the rant, but... seriously, metric makes more sense. Except temperature, but that's because I was raised with some lady's abnormally hot body temp being 100 degF and it's kind of a thought process to correlate that with 32, 212, and Celcius.)
Okay, maybe an exaggeration, but seriously - "the American people in the 70s" isn't going to be a selling point for me, nor is it being sold by the Nixon administration deciding Americans can't handle it. The fact is, if you didn't know the difference, you wouldn't object.
The one minor benefit to US measurements is that thirds and sixths are far more likely to be an integer multiple of the next smallest unit instead of ⅓ of a km being 333.33333… m
Also, length measurements in the UK are bizarre. When I studied there a decade ago, they used miles and yards (never feet) for distance and meters for height; liquid was in liters (except for the proper-size pint); weight was either kilos or stone (never pounds)
How often do you need a precise measurement of a third of something? Surely you could just say "300 metres" and for all intents and purposes it would be the same.
"The human society at the time preferred to play with time as a means of command over their inclinations and prowess of the universe, we don't quite know the practical reasoning behind this strange and convoluted ritual of might, but they, twice a year, tended to shift their clocks and repeat or move forward an hour of time in the dead of night against all better judgement." — Likely written on the tapestries on the horrors and tribulations of past civilizations, c. 2100+.