So they've rebranded helicopter parenting again? Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of this. I mostly blame the constant innundation of fear that's been at least a steady drip since 1999 (Columbine)....
So they've rebranded helicopter parenting again?
Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of this. I mostly blame the constant innundation of fear that's been at least a steady drip since 1999 (Columbine). Add in the constant stream of online parenting material of dubious quality ("Top 10 things that prove you're ruining your child's life."). And toss on actual science that demonstrates the harms that come from basically lots of pre-2000 parenting.... and you've created an environment where people want to wall their kids in for fear of fucking them up.
People stare at me like I have 7 eyes when I tell them my < 8 kid can play in our yard unsupervised.
Met a mom yesterday at an event for some under-5 kids, she had brought along her 13 year old teenager because she couldn't find a babysitter for them. For 2 hours. Circa 1997 I was babysitting at that age.
I mean, I got paid like $12/hr in 1997. That'd be like $23/hr now according to CPI. Hundreds per hour, hot damn, I'm in the wrong business. Yo parents within two hours of Philadelphia: I'll...
I mean, I got paid like $12/hr in 1997. That'd be like $23/hr now according to CPI.
Hundreds per hour, hot damn, I'm in the wrong business. Yo parents within two hours of Philadelphia: I'll babysit your kids for $50/hr. Qualifications: I have two kids whom I have taken care of for multiple years and have not yet died. I have my own shit and don't need to steal yours.
Fear mongering isn't really that new, but I do think various techs had made it way easier to insulate yourself into the feedback loop of fear. If you had kids in the 90s or earlier you almost HAD...
Fear mongering isn't really that new, but I do think various techs had made it way easier to insulate yourself into the feedback loop of fear.
If you had kids in the 90s or earlier you almost HAD to eventually cut the cord. It was hard to do otherwise. Cell phones have changed that. Its trivial to call and check up, or now, to just literally pull up their position at any time.
If you wanted to go on vacation, you left your place alone. You might have an alarm system, but generally you trusted that things would be fine when you came back, maybe you had someone check in or house sit. Now you can have camera's you can access at any moment to see what's going on live at any moment.
While these are nice features, it unfortunately lets people play into their worst fears. Before, eventually, you'd often get over things because the fact they just never happened adds up. The first time my parents left me alone they worried about it, the 50th they didn't bat an eye. Being able to CONSTANTLY check up, track, and meddle in things means you can never say to yourself "well I did nothing, and everything was fine, I guess i should worry less"
And schools/lawyers haven't really helped. Parents can walk all over the teachers and admin, and it causes no end of problems. Maybe there were just fewer of them so it was less of a problem, but I feel like the schools used to draw cleaner lines at some point. There's always been some parents who refuse to acknowledge their child could misbehave or get a bad grade, but the amount i've seen them just abuse and walk all over teachers is absurd, and it's extra awful the lesson they're teaching the child.
There's some fear, but there's also a lot of new legal requirements Any parent who let their kid take the bus to the city library now will likely face inquiry from social services. A dear friend...
There's some fear, but there's also a lot of new legal requirements
Any parent who let their kid take the bus to the city library now will likely face inquiry from social services.
A dear friend of mine suffered the tragic loss of their child and had to lawyer up to fend off allegations of killing their child while they grieved because "they" thought it might have been "negligence".
When I sold a home and moved out, the insurance policy demanded that I NEVER leave the home empty for more than 72 hours or else it will be declared abandoned and anything that happens to it, fire flood theft whatever, will not be insurable. Visiting friends is no good either it must be LIVED for at least 8 hours a day. I had to pay someone to live there until new owners take possession and pray they don't burgle me or let someone in to do so or have any sort of accident, or I would have not only been uninsured, the sale might fall through and I'd be out a gazillion dollars I didn't have. It was such horseshit I still can believe it.
Teachers. Teachers want to be able to give failing grades and let the kids play inside when it's -20C and teach how to use tools etc except the laws won't let them.
WE sane few didn't do this: we don't want to helicopter, and live in fear, they make us do this.
The threat of losing ones kid is real and so frustrating to me. I roamed all over my hometown as a kid, walking or riding my bike or catching a ride from people I knew. We played in the woods and...
Any parent who let their kid take the bus to the city library now will likely face inquiry from social services.
The threat of losing ones kid is real and so frustrating to me. I roamed all over my hometown as a kid, walking or riding my bike or catching a ride from people I knew. We played in the woods and built fires and forts and tree houses. I wish my daughter could have these experiences, but the nosy neighbors would be all over it if she were just walking around loose.
I have found a sort of ersatz-ersatz-substitute in children's groups such as cadets and guides/scouts. They do some of these things some of the time, in a very formal and very observed way..... we...
I have found a sort of ersatz-ersatz-substitute in children's groups such as cadets and guides/scouts. They do some of these things some of the time, in a very formal and very observed way.....
we do what we can as well: here we are in a forest, here's some basic tools and whatnot, and a walkie talkie. Roam, break things, and we'll meet back here in a few hours. (No large predators in our area before others call child services on us). In the winter when there's snow I also let the child set fire to things in the back woods using a magnifying glass, as long as they put them out with a ton of snow again (never in the summer or during fire season).
It's one of the reasons we moved to a rural place with hundreds of acres of crown land at the back.
Yeah, we are in the 'burbs, which is not ideal for this kind of thing. We just have one child, so we need to balance the wildness with having a place she can be around other kids. I have wanted to...
Yeah, we are in the 'burbs, which is not ideal for this kind of thing. We just have one child, so we need to balance the wildness with having a place she can be around other kids. I have wanted to get some land and build a primitive cabin on it for weekend getaways. Hearing about your adventures makes me want to do that more.
Your state probably does some kind of land sale, where one could pick up acres of land in remote places for next to no money. Here in Nova Scotia, sometimes they're couple hundred to few thousand...
Your state probably does some kind of land sale, where one could pick up acres of land in remote places for next to no money.
Here in Nova Scotia, sometimes they're couple hundred to few thousand bucks, especially if one is willing to drive out on weekends. More now after the pandemic but I suspect it'll go back down. But yeah crown land is pretty awesome just for camping and milling around too.
Be slow to judge...I have a cousin who I believe we babysat once when he was in high school. Ostensibly, we were there to babysit his brothers, but the implication was pretty clear. He would have...
Met a mom yesterday at an event for som under-5 kids, she had brought along her 13 year old teenager because she couldn't find a babysitter for them. For 2 hours. Circa 1997 I was babysitting at that age.
Be slow to judge...I have a cousin who I believe we babysat once when he was in high school. Ostensibly, we were there to babysit his brothers, but the implication was pretty clear. He would have seemed pretty "normal" to most people (and still does) but he lives in a nursing home now (29 yo) because the psychological conditions he has make it so he can't even be trusted to take care of himself. Which just makes him a normal guy with a few problems.
I understand those things do happen, but this was certainly not the case. While this was my first time meeting this particular family, my wife had met them several times. There's another 16 year...
I understand those things do happen, but this was certainly not the case. While this was my first time meeting this particular family, my wife had met them several times. There's another 16 year old as well, but they were at a sport event that day or they would have been brought too.
Teenager sat on phone whole time while mom hovered approximately 2 foot from other child the entire time at an event designed for that not to be done.
At the incidence rate I see these sorts of things, if it were due to disorders, I'd be more concerned that there was something in the water or food supply. The mom wasn't a one-off...just the most recent.
But that's @updawg 's point, that we just don't know what's going on with other people. Maybe it's mental health, maybe there's a hidden disability, maybe the teen just had a bad break up and...
But that's @updawg 's point, that we just don't know what's going on with other people. Maybe it's mental health, maybe there's a hidden disability, maybe the teen just had a bad break up and needed to be out of the house, maybe their wifi is down
The hovering two feet away from the littles is more indicative though, so I don't disagree with your assessment. Just that I've been wrong about people before for reasons I hadn't considered.
Edit: hang on 13 year olds don't date right? Friend group fallout?
I wonder if I’m just good at acceptance of slim chances to a bad outcome. Genetically I’m prone to anxiety, but I’ve had to train myself to manage it in various ways. Things like: When donating...
I wonder if I’m just good at acceptance of slim chances to a bad outcome. Genetically I’m prone to anxiety, but I’ve had to train myself to manage it in various ways.
Things like:
When donating blood where there’s a return phase I sometimes get anxious about getting an embolism. I can see little bubbles in the line. I go to a reputable place, the line always has bubbles in it, and I am sure there’s some magic that ensures they don’t end up in me. But all of that logic alone isn’t enough to calm me. I also need to accept the possibility of a life altering, or fatal medical event. Really, any time anyone drives they need to accept that. I don’t want to die, but I also don’t fear death.
I’m willing to forgo significant sums of money, very much bird-in-the-hand, even though an unforseen tragedy could require I have that extra cash. I just have to accept that my life could get ruined by certain events. I’d rather have a good life now (for sure) than account for every bad outcome possible.
My Mom gave me the natural anxiety I fight every day. When she tells me stories about raising me and my brothers it’s clear we were a constant source of anxiety for her. I’ve never had kids, and I trust people when they say you can’t understand how it feels. But I do think I’d maintain this mindset with them. There will be times when I’m aware there’s a slim chance of a terrible outcome for them, even fatal, but will just have to accept that. In our world we are often hyper aware of all of the bad things. Those bad things do exist, so once you hear about them you can’t forget. You will simply need to accept them and keep going.
Yeah. Accepting that they might get hurt is very hard, but it must happen or you're going to screw them up forever. That's what I tell myself, anyway.
There will be times when I’m aware there’s a slim chance of a terrible outcome for them, even fatal, but will just have to accept that. In our world we are often hyper aware of all of the bad things. Those bad things do exist, so once you hear about them you can’t forget. You will simply need to accept them and keep going.
Yeah. Accepting that they might get hurt is very hard, but it must happen or you're going to screw them up forever. That's what I tell myself, anyway.
I'm doubtful. Broadly speaking, both of those things have always been much, much more likely (along with rape) to happen between family and tusted members of the community. They are typically...
I'm doubtful. Broadly speaking, both of those things have always been much, much more likely (along with rape) to happen between family and tusted members of the community.
They are typically crimes of passion. My complete guess would be the biggest single factor would be the normalization of divorce.
Divorce might be a good guess. My guesses of contributing factors the slightly bigger umbrella of (finally) getting rid of the stigma of non-virginity. How many crimes were hushed up by the...
Divorce might be a good guess.
My guesses of contributing factors
the slightly bigger umbrella of (finally) getting rid of the stigma of non-virginity. How many crimes were hushed up by the victims because abuse/assault would ruin the victims' lives?
Easing up of lead poisoning among the general population.
Same with me when I’m assigned a supervisor shift at work. Some employees pick up right away, most figure it out by the third attempt, the rest leave me wondering “why can’t I just do this myself?”
it’s easier to knock things out of the way… for the parent
Same with me when I’m assigned a supervisor shift at work. Some employees pick up right away, most figure it out by the third attempt, the rest leave me wondering “why can’t I just do this myself?”
This reminds me a recent article in the New York Times about how many parents are restricting their kids' sleepover experiences (like picking them up before bedtime or staying at the house...
This reminds me a recent article in the New York Times about how many parents are restricting their kids' sleepover experiences (like picking them up before bedtime or staying at the house themselves). Growing up in the 90s, I had so much fun and social growth at sleepovers, and it makes me sad to think some kids are not getting to experience that in the same way today.
So... We've redefined "Helicopter parenting" as "plastic wrap parenting"? This article points to the rise of something that's already been lampooned for ages. Regardless, I agree with the article...
So... We've redefined "Helicopter parenting" as "plastic wrap parenting"?
This article points to the rise of something that's already been lampooned for ages.
Regardless, I agree with the article but I don't believe the article has set out a way that this is truly any different than what we've called Helicopter parenting.
So they've rebranded helicopter parenting again?
Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of this. I mostly blame the constant innundation of fear that's been at least a steady drip since 1999 (Columbine). Add in the constant stream of online parenting material of dubious quality ("Top 10 things that prove you're ruining your child's life."). And toss on actual science that demonstrates the harms that come from basically lots of pre-2000 parenting.... and you've created an environment where people want to wall their kids in for fear of fucking them up.
People stare at me like I have 7 eyes when I tell them my < 8 kid can play in our yard unsupervised.
Met a mom yesterday at an event for some under-5 kids, she had brought along her 13 year old teenager because she couldn't find a babysitter for them. For 2 hours. Circa 1997 I was babysitting at that age.
I mean, I got paid like $12/hr in 1997. That'd be like $23/hr now according to CPI.
Hundreds per hour, hot damn, I'm in the wrong business. Yo parents within two hours of Philadelphia: I'll babysit your kids for $50/hr. Qualifications: I have two kids whom I have taken care of for multiple years and have not yet died. I have my own shit and don't need to steal yours.
I'll do it for $25/hr plus snacks.
The free market works!
Fear mongering isn't really that new, but I do think various techs had made it way easier to insulate yourself into the feedback loop of fear.
If you had kids in the 90s or earlier you almost HAD to eventually cut the cord. It was hard to do otherwise. Cell phones have changed that. Its trivial to call and check up, or now, to just literally pull up their position at any time.
If you wanted to go on vacation, you left your place alone. You might have an alarm system, but generally you trusted that things would be fine when you came back, maybe you had someone check in or house sit. Now you can have camera's you can access at any moment to see what's going on live at any moment.
While these are nice features, it unfortunately lets people play into their worst fears. Before, eventually, you'd often get over things because the fact they just never happened adds up. The first time my parents left me alone they worried about it, the 50th they didn't bat an eye. Being able to CONSTANTLY check up, track, and meddle in things means you can never say to yourself "well I did nothing, and everything was fine, I guess i should worry less"
And schools/lawyers haven't really helped. Parents can walk all over the teachers and admin, and it causes no end of problems. Maybe there were just fewer of them so it was less of a problem, but I feel like the schools used to draw cleaner lines at some point. There's always been some parents who refuse to acknowledge their child could misbehave or get a bad grade, but the amount i've seen them just abuse and walk all over teachers is absurd, and it's extra awful the lesson they're teaching the child.
There's some fear, but there's also a lot of new legal requirements
Any parent who let their kid take the bus to the city library now will likely face inquiry from social services.
A dear friend of mine suffered the tragic loss of their child and had to lawyer up to fend off allegations of killing their child while they grieved because "they" thought it might have been "negligence".
When I sold a home and moved out, the insurance policy demanded that I NEVER leave the home empty for more than 72 hours or else it will be declared abandoned and anything that happens to it, fire flood theft whatever, will not be insurable. Visiting friends is no good either it must be LIVED for at least 8 hours a day. I had to pay someone to live there until new owners take possession and pray they don't burgle me or let someone in to do so or have any sort of accident, or I would have not only been uninsured, the sale might fall through and I'd be out a gazillion dollars I didn't have. It was such horseshit I still can believe it.
Teachers. Teachers want to be able to give failing grades and let the kids play inside when it's -20C and teach how to use tools etc except the laws won't let them.
WE sane few didn't do this: we don't want to helicopter, and live in fear, they make us do this.
The threat of losing ones kid is real and so frustrating to me. I roamed all over my hometown as a kid, walking or riding my bike or catching a ride from people I knew. We played in the woods and built fires and forts and tree houses. I wish my daughter could have these experiences, but the nosy neighbors would be all over it if she were just walking around loose.
I have found a sort of ersatz-ersatz-substitute in children's groups such as cadets and guides/scouts. They do some of these things some of the time, in a very formal and very observed way.....
we do what we can as well: here we are in a forest, here's some basic tools and whatnot, and a walkie talkie. Roam, break things, and we'll meet back here in a few hours. (No large predators in our area before others call child services on us). In the winter when there's snow I also let the child set fire to things in the back woods using a magnifying glass, as long as they put them out with a ton of snow again (never in the summer or during fire season).
It's one of the reasons we moved to a rural place with hundreds of acres of crown land at the back.
Yeah, we are in the 'burbs, which is not ideal for this kind of thing. We just have one child, so we need to balance the wildness with having a place she can be around other kids. I have wanted to get some land and build a primitive cabin on it for weekend getaways. Hearing about your adventures makes me want to do that more.
Your state probably does some kind of land sale, where one could pick up acres of land in remote places for next to no money.
Here in Nova Scotia, sometimes they're couple hundred to few thousand bucks, especially if one is willing to drive out on weekends. More now after the pandemic but I suspect it'll go back down. But yeah crown land is pretty awesome just for camping and milling around too.
Be slow to judge...I have a cousin who I believe we babysat once when he was in high school. Ostensibly, we were there to babysit his brothers, but the implication was pretty clear. He would have seemed pretty "normal" to most people (and still does) but he lives in a nursing home now (29 yo) because the psychological conditions he has make it so he can't even be trusted to take care of himself. Which just makes him a normal guy with a few problems.
I understand those things do happen, but this was certainly not the case. While this was my first time meeting this particular family, my wife had met them several times. There's another 16 year old as well, but they were at a sport event that day or they would have been brought too.
Teenager sat on phone whole time while mom hovered approximately 2 foot from other child the entire time at an event designed for that not to be done.
At the incidence rate I see these sorts of things, if it were due to disorders, I'd be more concerned that there was something in the water or food supply. The mom wasn't a one-off...just the most recent.
But that's @updawg 's point, that we just don't know what's going on with other people. Maybe it's mental health, maybe there's a hidden disability, maybe the teen just had a bad break up and needed to be out of the house, maybe their wifi is down
The hovering two feet away from the littles is more indicative though, so I don't disagree with your assessment. Just that I've been wrong about people before for reasons I hadn't considered.
Edit: hang on 13 year olds don't date right? Friend group fallout?
Eh they "date" though it looks different than in older teens
A bad breakup at 13 is when your relationship is particularly long lasting--all the way from the start of lunch until the end of the schoolday.
Hey sometimes it's goes for like a whole week and it's the end of the world... Oh I'm not looking forward to my niblings being teens... The stress
Or the discovery of a crush being in a relationship. Oh the drama!!
Are you going to be the cool elder pibling with all the sage advice?
Yeah going for cool queer cat auntie (we'll see where gender is at when they're of an age to grasp that)
I wonder if I’m just good at acceptance of slim chances to a bad outcome. Genetically I’m prone to anxiety, but I’ve had to train myself to manage it in various ways.
Things like:
When donating blood where there’s a return phase I sometimes get anxious about getting an embolism. I can see little bubbles in the line. I go to a reputable place, the line always has bubbles in it, and I am sure there’s some magic that ensures they don’t end up in me. But all of that logic alone isn’t enough to calm me. I also need to accept the possibility of a life altering, or fatal medical event. Really, any time anyone drives they need to accept that. I don’t want to die, but I also don’t fear death.
I’m willing to forgo significant sums of money, very much bird-in-the-hand, even though an unforseen tragedy could require I have that extra cash. I just have to accept that my life could get ruined by certain events. I’d rather have a good life now (for sure) than account for every bad outcome possible.
My Mom gave me the natural anxiety I fight every day. When she tells me stories about raising me and my brothers it’s clear we were a constant source of anxiety for her. I’ve never had kids, and I trust people when they say you can’t understand how it feels. But I do think I’d maintain this mindset with them. There will be times when I’m aware there’s a slim chance of a terrible outcome for them, even fatal, but will just have to accept that. In our world we are often hyper aware of all of the bad things. Those bad things do exist, so once you hear about them you can’t forget. You will simply need to accept them and keep going.
Yeah. Accepting that they might get hurt is very hard, but it must happen or you're going to screw them up forever. That's what I tell myself, anyway.
I've wondered, since kidnappings, murders, etc have gone down over the years, is it BECAUSE of this overprotectiveness?
I'm doubtful. Broadly speaking, both of those things have always been much, much more likely (along with rape) to happen between family and tusted members of the community.
They are typically crimes of passion. My complete guess would be the biggest single factor would be the normalization of divorce.
Divorce might be a good guess.
My guesses of contributing factors
the slightly bigger umbrella of (finally) getting rid of the stigma of non-virginity. How many crimes were hushed up by the victims because abuse/assault would ruin the victims' lives?
Easing up of lead poisoning among the general population.
Same with me when I’m assigned a supervisor shift at work. Some employees pick up right away, most figure it out by the third attempt, the rest leave me wondering “why can’t I just do this myself?”
This reminds me a recent article in the New York Times about how many parents are restricting their kids' sleepover experiences (like picking them up before bedtime or staying at the house themselves). Growing up in the 90s, I had so much fun and social growth at sleepovers, and it makes me sad to think some kids are not getting to experience that in the same way today.
So... We've redefined "Helicopter parenting" as "plastic wrap parenting"?
This article points to the rise of something that's already been lampooned for ages.
Regardless, I agree with the article but I don't believe the article has set out a way that this is truly any different than what we've called Helicopter parenting.
Bubble Boy came out 23 years ago.
Boy in the Plastic Bubble is even older.
It even mentions helicoptering in the first bullet