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What are your favorite westerns?
I love westerns and would like to hear about your favorites and thoughts on the genre. Preferably a bit more than just a list of titles.
What is your relationship with the western genre and do you have some favorites you want to recommend?
Do you prefer spaghetti westerns, neo westerns, animated western or classic John Wayne westerns?
Does the western genre have a future?
My primary interest in westerns has been through their interaction with Japanese film, and especially Japanese film from the 1950s and 60s. Akira Kurosawa in particular was a big fan of John Ford, and Kurosawa's films in turn directly influenced many westerns: Seven Samurai was turned into The Magnificent Seven, Yojimbo became A Fistful of Dollars, and Rashomon was adapted into The Outrage, just to name a few. And you could certainly argue, and many have, that especially Seven Samurai and Yojimbo already were westerns, just with swords. Kurosawa himself wouldn't have agreed of course, insisting that as a Japanese creator he wouldn't even be able to make a western, and you may be agreeing with him while asking why I'm talking about Japanese films in a thread about westerns, but in the end it's not really that black and white a situation.
Yojimbo, for instance, is part of an influence chain that is among my favourites in any medium. It goes something like this: Dashiell Hammett wrote the books The Glass Key and Red Harvest, and those (together with the 1942 Hollywood film noir adaptation of the former) influenced Kurosawa to create Yojimbo (1961). Now, in addition to the aforementioned Sergio Leone copying Kurosawa's film in A Fistful of Dollars (1964), his countryman Sergio Corbucci did something similar with his spaghetti western Django (1966). Corbucci's film in turn influenced Takashi Miike's Sukiyaki Western Django (2007), whose cast included one Quentin Tarantino, who in turn created perhaps the most accomplished western of the past couple of decades, Django Unchained (2012). The result is a very satisfying west-east-west-east-west bounce that involves a number of great directors.
I just remembered that I actually wrote a little about some of these films once upon a time, if you are interested. But they have also been on my mind in recent weeks, after it was announced that A Fistful of Dollars is getting an official remake. I wonder who will be playing the Man-With-No-Name, trying to fill Eastwood's shoes. That should be a challenge for anyone.
Speaking of the Man-With-No-Name, just last year, the already mentioned Takashi Miike also created the animated Netflix series Onimusha, which was not just influenced by the titular character from Yojimbo (Kurosawa's Man-With-No-Name), but actually claimed to be "featuring" the long deceased actor Toshiro Mifune, who played the character. Based on the trailer, they certainly did a good job. But I haven't watched the series.
While I'm looking at these things from the point of view where Kurosawa's influence has spread, you could just as well look at it from the perspective of westerns. How far that John Ford influence has spread. That mythical frontier hero, the border between civilisation and the wilderness, an allegory that works to explore anything from human nature to societal change, or the tug of war between the psychoanalytic id and ego. I think that's why the western as a genre is so fascinating, why it has a global reach despite being superficially a predominantly American story, and why it keeps being revived every decade or two.
I came here to bring Kurosawa up as well, but definitely not in such detail, great comment.
Its hard to overstate the influence Kurosawa has on stories in the west. From American westerns to Starwars, heist movies ,Disney animations , and of course other samurai movies. Even down to the basic idea of "assembling a team" to accomplish a task or mission was a very new thing when he directed 7 Samurai. I remember the surprise when I saw a "In Memory of Akira Kurosawa" panel in the title sequence of the Star Wars animated series "The Clone Wars" before an episode that was just a remake of 7 Samurai in a Star Wars setting.
A list of other movies drawing inspiration from his works
Great thorough lengthy answer!
Western and samurai films definitely share many themes, but is also clearly spawned from very different cultures. At least originally, because now with global cultural influences everything is a reaction to or takes inspiration from elsewhere. I haven't yet gotten into samurai movies in the same way as westerns, even though I can appreciate the same things from them. I recently watched Yojimbo at it's similarities to Leone's Fistful of Dollars is hard to miss. I remember having a bit of a problem taking it seriously, because it is as you write more on the humorist side. And because I was so familiar with Leone's film, it was hard to appreciate Yojimbo for me on its own merit, even though its deserves credit for being more than just inspiration. But it was entertaining, which made the followup in Sanjuro a letdown. It lacked the charm and wit, just bland in comparison.
Well put. I think westerns allows for an unfiltered focus on these things by having a frontier setting with almost no society, rule of law or cultural history on its own. The conflicts are stripped down to the bare essentials. The basic premises for right and wrong, for what constitutes a good society or good government. The present is way too messy for that.
I definitely get that, although for me, while I consider Yojimbo the better film, indeed almost a perfect film, I think I actually like watching Sanjuro more. I just find it funnier and quirkier than Yojimbo.
I once talked about the two films with a Japanese friend, and his theory was that Yojimbo is a more west-friendly film while Sanjuro is a more Japanese one, and that Japanese audiences would tend to prefer the latter while those who grew up with Hollywood films would like the former. I'm not sure I agree, but it's a theory.
While certainly true of the first wave and the golden age of westerns, I think this began to change by the time of the revisionist westerns of the 1960s, which very much began to question and deconstruct the notions of what "right" or "wrong" are even supposed to mean.
This wasn't restricted to westerns of course, as a lot of creative work during the postmodern era tackled with these questions, but I suppose the western as a genre is particularly well positioned to explore them. There is the frontier setting that you mentioned, and with it comes the feeling of constant change, and an imminent and inevitable end to the era that it depicts. It's also crucially the moment just before the modern era arrives with its railroads and cars and automatic weapons. Replacing those dusty trails, horses and more personal six shooters. As such, it could actually be quite a good genre for engaging with the issues of our present-day world.
What a terrible idea. The original is in no way dated, and it was the product of a collaboration between several absolutely superlative artists. I doubt the producers of the remake will be anywhere near their level.
I am not a fan of Westerns, but man Tombstone is one of my favourite movies. Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday was fucking awesome. There are so many quotable lines from it.
The Dollars trilogy:
Are, in my opinion, the best spaghetti Westerns ever made. I believe they are sone of the films that defined the genre, and are beautifully shot and scored. Ennio Morricone is superlatively talented, and created an aural meme with shootout music. Everyone should watch these films at least once, and I think that they hold up well today, even if it turns out the Clint himself is a bit weird.
A movie that is less good, but more of a favorite for me is The Quick and the Dead which is about a woman who is a gunfighter on a quest for revenge. Stellar cast, including a young Leo.
Bone Tomahawk is a western that's also a horror movie. I like genre bending and this one is done well, though it is distressingly graphic.
I think that Westerns can certainly have a place in cinema, though the cowboy is a very American thing to be interested in.
Bone Tomahawk was a highly entertaining movie, if that's your type of thing.
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Searchers
The Outlaw Josey Wales
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Unforgiven
3:10 To Yuma (2007)
D’jango Unchained
The Hateful Eight
Surprised there’s not a lot of mention of the Tarantino westerns thus far. D’jango is great, I remember watching that early on when I was getting into movies. I knew it was a Best Picture nominee but my mother always told me that Oscar movies were boring. So when I rented that willingly she was like “ugh I don’t want to watch this” but she got super into it. It was incredibly entertaining.
The Hateful Eight is something that I enjoyed at the time but which has grown on me even more. I think it’s one of the best films of its year, and I think Tarantino deserved an Original Screenplay nom. The cinematography is so lush and the score fantastic, it has a terrific atmosphere to it even though it’s set in one location.
The Hills Run Red (1966) is a classic if I’m craving spaghetti.
Gastropub spaghetti…maybe True Grit (2010)?
Sci-fi Western? Cowboys and Aliens (2011).
I wanted to love cowboys and aliens - probably went in with un-meetable expectations... :/
Treat it like The Core.
Is it an enjoyable movie? Yes, but maybe not for the reasons the producer hoped.
Does it make sense? No, but it doesn’t need to make sense to by enjoyable.
That is a deep cut of spaghetti westerns. I have it on DVD somewhere, but I can't really remember much about it. What makes it memorable for you?
Both the when and where of the purchase of the DVD and the content of the film.
When I purchased it I lived in a very, very small town that had about three choices for most types of shopping: a regional budget grocer, a Walmart, and a local food cooperative. I’d moved to that small town on a whim from one of the largest metropolitan areas in the US. The Hills Run Red DVD was a 99¢ bin purchase at the Walmart in that town. It may have been a double feature but if it was I can’t remember the other film. Love of that city, region, and time is part of what makes it memorable.
The story is great, too. And for a spaghetti western the acting is spot on. You start with a country song - locked up, dog and family died, broke, no friends not even in low places, etc. - and it grows into a tale of return, redemption, and revenge that echoes Homerian tales.
For spaghetti westerns They Call Me Trinity and Trinity Is Still My Name are some of my favorite comedy movies ever made, so they will always have a special place in my heart.
Hell or High Water was a great movie that had a more modern take on a western, so I'd highly recommend that to anyone who hasn't yet seen it.
Puss in Boots: The Last Wish can be described as a western I guess, and that was my favorite movie that I saw last year.
It doesn't seem like we've been getting very many western-style movies recently, with everyone being on the fantasy or superhero trends. That being said I do think there are a lot of great movies that take inspiration from them in the past 10-15 years so I doubt the genre will ever truly die.
No significant relationship with the Western genre. I do find I like the films, especially the macro examples of the genre, and I've gone so far as to seek out specific title buts I dont count it as a favorite
I generally lean towards American western films because of the scores. I dont mind the different musical options from spaghetti/neo/etc but definitely have a positive association with scores from like Morricone, tunes from Marty Robbins and other mainstays.
One (neo?) example that I haven't seen mentioned yet is The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007). It's an excellent film with a memorable score that tickles the parts of my brain I want when sitting down for a Western
I absolutely think theres a future for the genre. Trends come in ebbs and flows and from 2005-2015 or so, it seemed like Hollywood spent resources putting out several Westerns. There may be a big budget lull now but I do believe they'll return
upvote for TAOJJBTCRF - went into the theatre w/0 expectations and was kinda blown away by it.
I love em. My dad watched a ton of them and samurai movies with me growing up. I went ballistic when I was in college and learned there was a Westerns and Samurai film lit course... I love High Noon, both versions of 3:10 to Yuma, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Stagecoach, Blazing Saddles, Kill Bill vol 2, No Country for Old Men. Likewise I love Japanese media with the typical isolated, roaming ronin/wanderer archetype - Yojimbo, Samurai Champloo, the original season of Kino's Journey...
Studios are always going to rehash the classics either when people vibe with the themes again or when people want money, right? It's an easy, familiar place to play around with the tropes.
Where I find it kind of interesting, though, is that it feels like trends are in the opposite space with dystopia recently. A noir atmosphere is where it gets easier to push the solitary protagonist in a life where surveillance, technology, and the resulting machinations of the law sit above us every day. That's all antithetical to the western. Maybe space is the unexplored frontier to Hollywood nowadays; I wonder if it's more likely the genre gets bound to sci-fi.
How do you feel about Rio Bravo?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Bravo_(film)#High_Noon_debate
I have no special relationship with the western genre, and I more or less do not care for the setting itself as a vehicle for a movie/series. For me, the only memorable media in this space is Deadwood, and that's only because it's basically a very vulgar, very thespian and grounded story. It could have worked in any other setting too, since it more or less dealt with the base human tendencies, not the Wild West.
I am also fond of Yojimbo and Sanjuro. I think they qualify at least as "Western inspired" if anything, seeing as they are centered around the classic trope of "mysterious stranger comes to save a town from evil"
I think that is true for many good stories. Also why we see classic stories retold in different settings, because it gives a new perspective or highlights different aspects. Having it set in Deadwood at that point in history where traditional rule of law hasn't reached yet, makes for a different story than a similar story set in the present at least.
I'm not a big western fan but I enjoyed the unforgiven when it came out.
I'm also a huge fan of Blazing Saddles.
I preferred the master of kung fu over the lone ranger back in the day.
The Clint Eastwood western or the Burt Lancaster movie by the same name?
Now I need to go find the Burt Lancaster film.
I watched it about a month ago. It was pretty good.
Most of the movies Lancaster did in the 50s were pretty good.
Unforgiven
Now there is a complex, compelling, and ambiguous film! It won several Oscars for a reason.
Has anyone mentioned Little Big Man? It's one of my favorites.
a few I haven't seen mentioned already:
Silverado was sort of two films mashed into 1 (before they get to silverado and after). Both halves are great, I'm just rarely in the mood for both.
Young Guns 1&2 - We're in the spirit world asshole!!!
Firefly - (scifi+western) it's a tv series and a movie, but I tend to binge it all when I get in the mood for a rewatch, ymmv - I'll be in my bunk.
Since I've opened it up to tv series, Justified is a modern day 'western' (my words) and is amazing
edit: Adding No Country for Old Men && 3 Amigos (Chevy+Martin+Martin!)
Silverado is one of my favorites, I love all the characters
I don't know if it counts because it's a mini series, not a movie, but there is a great Netflix production called Godless which I never hear people talk about. Amazing actors, cinematography, script.
It's about a town where all the men have died in a mining accident. It's funny how they manage to still make most main characters men with that plot, but it really is great.
I don't know much about westerns but I really love My Darling Clementine.
I grew up as a sci-fan and hated westerns as a child.
Movies used to cost a pittance and people used to use it like television before television existed so a lot of crappy westerns exist.
John Wayne's westerns were crappy IMHO. Even before I knew about his extreme racism I would not even think about watching them.
I find a lot of westerns hard to watch for the way indigenous people are portrayed and talked about.
Though he is also a flaming racist, I did enjoy Clint Eastwood's westerns for the gritty, more realistic feel he brought to the genre.
The older westerns I enjoyed the most starred actors who were well known at the time and who starred in a variety of genres of movies. I think if you used that as diving rod you will be led to the better westerns.
While some John Wayne movies, like The Searchers, are worth watching because they are great movies, I haven't really found John Wayne as an actor that interesting. For a 40s and 50s western hero, I like James Stewart roles a lot better. The westerns he made with Anthony Mann are great classic entertainment.
Clint Eastwood and his spaghetti westerns was my gateway drug into the genre. I have since seen practically everything with him as well as dived into various lesser known spaghetti westerns. I still think those hold up better to a modern audience with their more grey anti hero approach than the classic American westerns of the 40s and 50s, but it can be interesting to go back to the American classics to get a better sense of what the radical changes to the genre in the 60s stemmed from.
The spaghetti westerns were the ones I found most interesting too, though I think it was the funky look and feel of the production values. Similar to how some people like 1950s sci-fi and 1970s Dr. Who episodes for the funky look and feel.
First to include movies I like that I don't see Gunless, Maverick, and The Quick and the Dead are all on the "not art but fun" pile of westerns for me. Everything else i'd pick is already mentioned
On the quote:
I think westerns are quite easy to make because they're a setting and MAYBE a genre. The tone of all of the movies listed varies wildly, and like horror, you can do basically ANY combo with the genre. Psychological, noir, drama, comedy, romance, sci fi, whatever.
Further I do think the traditional "western" plot (assuming Dollars or Tombstone style here) has a pattern that's easily contained and entertaining. Hell I think it's why Mandalorian blew up, because it's LITERALLY a space western (at least for the first season), and that's arguably what the original Star Wars was as well.
The Fistful of Dollars / Eastwood movies that have been mentioned are probably the most broadly "recognizable" as Western -and I really enjoyed those... but for my money Leone's later film "Once Upon a Time in the West" is possibly one of the most beautiful things ever crafted by humankind in any medium.[
The way the sounds and environment become part of the story, the way the film shows "progress" against the backdrop of the landscape... the music ( one of the most beautiful and difficult to sing songs ). It just grabs you from the first 7 minutes and never lets go as it pulls you through the story. The first time I watched it I was just expecting a "filler Western" to kill some time and a couple hours later I was sobbing on my couch.
"Economy of dialogue" is something that strikes me as uniquely "Western": Doing as much as you can with as little actual dialogue as possible and using cues from the environment to do more of the work. The 2011 film "Drive" (which I also consider a Western in some sense) kind of took the same tack.
It can be a refreshing break from other media where it feels like everyone is just "babbling" to drive story or plot development.
Some minor spoilers here, but a fun breakdown of Leone's direction here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHlkX8XTJRQ
The sparse dialogue is definitely a plus for me as well. I remember reading about Eastwood and his time with Leone. When he got the role he asked for fewer lines. Which is unusual for new actors as they often want to maximize their screen time and spoken lines. But it paid off as Eastwood made a great career of often playing a man of few words.