34 votes

Megathread - Elon Musk and US politics

Posted by boxer_dogs_dance
Tags: politics, usa, republican party, donald trump, elon musk, department of government efficiency, megathread

This conversation and the back and forth of actions and reactions are going to continue for a while. So for those of us who are following, here is a dedicated space.

52 comments

  1. [6]
    Minori
    Link
    Elon Musk’s Enemy, USAID, Was Investigating Starlink’s Contracts in Ukraine

    Elon Musk’s Enemy, USAID, Was Investigating Starlink’s Contracts in Ukraine

    30 votes
    1. [5]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      I've seen it suggested his bias may also come from USAID work in South Africa (from family if not from him) but I'm unsurprised it's a target of the administration as a whole. They were much more...

      I've seen it suggested his bias may also come from USAID work in South Africa (from family if not from him) but I'm unsurprised it's a target of the administration as a whole. They were much more quiet about this specific one though (if still very isolationist) unless the press just didn't talk about it.

      18 votes
      1. [2]
        NaraVara
        Link Parent
        There’s been an extended disinformation campaign in right wing spheres to slag USAID as the center of wokeness and censorship and all the other liberal brainwashing they thing is going on. It’s an...

        There’s been an extended disinformation campaign in right wing spheres to slag USAID as the center of wokeness and censorship and all the other liberal brainwashing they thing is going on. It’s an evolution of the George Soros freak out.

        It’s often originating from Russian and Chinese sources because of course they hate that the US plows tons of resources into programs designed to burnish American humanitarian efforts and promote democracy and civil society reforms. But now they have a bunch of techbros who think USAID is where the wokeism machine is and if they tear it up then the woke mind virus will abate.

        They’re morons.

        9 votes
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          And in the process destroy so much good work done abroad and actively harm US farmers whose crops are bought by the government for aid, and so on. The ripple effects are enormous and as always...

          And in the process destroy so much good work done abroad and actively harm US farmers whose crops are bought by the government for aid, and so on. The ripple effects are enormous and as always they'll fight so hard for racism they'll hurt themselves too.

          It'd be nice not to see so much consistency on that.

          7 votes
      2. [2]
        Minori
        Link Parent
        I haven't seen any substance to the South African claims. Musk was always closer to his Canadian mother to my understanding.

        I haven't seen any substance to the South African claims. Musk was always closer to his Canadian mother to my understanding.

        4 votes
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          Yeah thats absolutely fair. This is a guy who hates trans people because his kid hates him as far as I can tell so it being personal makes plenty of sense.

          Yeah thats absolutely fair. This is a guy who hates trans people because his kid hates him as far as I can tell so it being personal makes plenty of sense.

          6 votes
  2. [2]
    Eji1700
    Link
    This is an endlessly frustrating topic to track because of our desire to make everything the end of the world. Don't get me wrong, he is breaking laws every which way from sunday, but the things I...

    This is an endlessly frustrating topic to track because of our desire to make everything the end of the world.

    Don't get me wrong, he is breaking laws every which way from sunday, but the things I really want to know about get buried in the deluge of "ALSO HE CAN'T DO THIS" stuff which is so much more minor in the scheme of the massive security concern he is and obvious threat to the entire system of democracy.

    Edit-

    To be clear just venting. This topic is great.

    18 votes
    1. updawg
      Link Parent
      There's also the deluge of "Trump and Elon are doing XYZ!!!" Where XYZ is something every president has done for decades. Like, maybe we shouldn't dilute the message?

      There's also the deluge of "Trump and Elon are doing XYZ!!!" Where XYZ is something every president has done for decades. Like, maybe we shouldn't dilute the message?

      11 votes
  3. [2]
    Raspcoffee
    Link
    Dunno where else to put this and I'm sick so my phrasing may be incoherent but. Trump is now going to sanction the ICC, international criminal court, which is located in the Netherlands, where I...

    Dunno where else to put this and I'm sick so my phrasing may be incoherent but.

    Trump is now going to sanction the ICC, international criminal court, which is located in the Netherlands, where I have been born, and live. The cabinet is, of course, talking about how to keep funding it and not get slammed with sanctions or other moves from the US.

    We are extremely reliant on trade. And its part of the reason our economy isn't suffering as much as Germany or other nearby countries. Meaning this can fuck us over drastically.

    Domestically fuck knows what this'll do politically as Geert Wilders is very pro Israël (and with that I mean he considers Jordan the Palestinian state, likes Trump's plan to move them all out of Gaza and says they should be pushed there).

    So

    Fuck all this shit. Fuck Trump, and fuck everyone who didn't vote or even voted for him. I hope the consequences for my country aren't major but who knows.

    18 votes
    1. CptBluebear
      Link Parent
      In a strong showing, about 80 signatories opposed the sanctions and will not follow the decree. Den Haag will be fine for now. What's worse is that this is another brazen attempt at destroying US...

      In a strong showing, about 80 signatories opposed the sanctions and will not follow the decree. Den Haag will be fine for now.

      What's worse is that this is another brazen attempt at destroying US soft power by attacking direct allies. The Netherlands is in the nine eyes for gods sake. Starting with Mexico and Canada too, their strongest allies, his actions are now actively undermining geopolitical stability by dismantling trust (even further) and weakening everyone.

      The massive amounts of soft power the US has is their strongest asset, and we're seeing it dismantled in front of our eyes for some unattainable isolationist ideals. The US cannot be an autarky no matter how much he tries.

      19 votes
  8. [6]
    skybrian
    Link
    What would happen if Musk tries to defy court orders? (ABC) …

    What would happen if Musk tries to defy court orders? (ABC)

    While such a challenge is yet to materialize, the federal courts have a few options to enforce their orders, according to constitutional law professor Justin Levitt, who previously served as a senior policy adviser in the Biden administration.

    The first option that the courts yield is exponentially escalating fines that could not only target someone like Elon Musk but also the young employees working for DOGE.

    "Those sanctions can be quick and swiftly painful," Levitt said. "You owe me $1,000 today, double it tomorrow, double it the next day, double it again the next day, double it again the next day. Exponential curves are not kind, and that'll start adding up to a whole bunch of real money for which a 25-year-old is going to be liable."

    While Musk -- the world's richest man -- might not feel the sting of a thousand dollar fine or could financially back DOGE employees, the amount could increase quickly.

    …

    The next option after sanctions could include an indefinite period of incarceration until the court order is obeyed. While Trump has pardon power for criminal offenses, his pardon power does not touch civil remedies, according to Levitt.

    10 votes
    1. [5]
      Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      While I absolutely think it's worth doing anyway, I do wonder how enforceable anything is against Elon at this point. As long as Trump and he remain allies, it doesn't feel like there's anything...

      While I absolutely think it's worth doing anyway, I do wonder how enforceable anything is against Elon at this point. As long as Trump and he remain allies, it doesn't feel like there's anything the courts or any federal agency can do in practical terms.

      Between the innate ability of any billionaire to deflect, delay, deny, and distract; Elon also has access to Trump's ability to run interference and give out pardons if needed. Any "normal" level of punishment (that would 100% deter any average person) is somewhat meaningless to someone with Elon's resources. And anything that rises above normal levels (seizing or freezing his companies or assets, putting him in jail) will either just be flat-out ignored, or Trump will pardon him.

      I feel in a very dystopian and helpless place this morning

      7 votes
      1. [4]
        Raspcoffee
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Rather than enforceability, I think if it isn't enforced it's one more thing to show that really, Musk is an oligarch and thus above the law. I doubt he'd pay those fines (immediately) but as it...

        Rather than enforceability, I think if it isn't enforced it's one more thing to show that really, Musk is an oligarch and thus above the law. I doubt he'd pay those fines (immediately) but as it stacks up and civil unrest inevitably becomes a thing(because really the shit Trump is doing in this term is even more extreme than the first) it gives the opposition massive ammo.

        Of course, normal political logic doesn't apply in this situation but even so, I do think it's worth weaponizing.

        Edit: Also, starting with 1000 dollar fine that gets doubled every day if Musk doesn't pay, it would 'only' take 21 days or three weeks for that to get to one billion. So honestly, even if it's only enforced later on it could actually really hurt him eventually.

        8 votes
        1. heraplem
          Link Parent
          Even if that's true, there's no guarantee things end well. I've seen a lot of smart people making comparisons to Orban's Hungary lately.

          as it stacks up and civil unrest inevitably becomes a thing(because really the shit Trump is doing in this term is even more extreme than the first) it gives the opposition massive ammo

          Even if that's true, there's no guarantee things end well. I've seen a lot of smart people making comparisons to Orban's Hungary lately.

          7 votes
        2. [2]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          Do you think banks would defy court orders for Musk? It seems like that would be a new level of lawlessness.

          Do you think banks would defy court orders for Musk? It seems like that would be a new level of lawlessness.

          4 votes
          1. Raspcoffee
            Link Parent
            Depends on whether Musk could strike at the courts first, or whether there something is in for them. Really, fuck knows.

            Depends on whether Musk could strike at the courts first, or whether there something is in for them. Really, fuck knows.

            3 votes
  9. [2]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    Teen on Musk's team spent time on the 'COM' cybercriminal social network

    Teen on Musk's team spent time on the 'COM' cybercriminal social network

    9 votes
    1. Protected
      Link Parent
      It's wild that cybercriminals these days are organizing on Discord, a closed, centrally owned, proprietary, monitored and generally insecure (from the people who run it at least) chat platform....

      It's wild that cybercriminals these days are organizing on Discord, a closed, centrally owned, proprietary, monitored and generally insecure (from the people who run it at least) chat platform. It's even weirder that that is known and Discord allows it to continue. Possibly they're working together with law enforcement to keep these criminals in a monitored platform so they can stop anything truly destructive?

      9 votes
  10. KapteinB
    Link
    X is blocking links to Signal (The Verge)

    X is blocking links to Signal (The Verge)

    Users attempting to add their Signal.me URL to posts, DMs, and bio descriptions are being met with error messages.

    9 votes
  11. [4]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    who are Elon Musk's wrecking crew?

    who are Elon Musk's wrecking crew?

    8 votes
    1. [3]
      unkz
      Link Parent
      Such weasel words. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/01/21/politics/trump-temporary-security-clearances Yeah, they have security clearances, but they shouldn’t have them. They are not vetted.

      A White House spokesperson wrote, “Those leading this mission with Elon Musk are doing so in full compliance with federal law, appropriate security clearances, and as employees of the relevant agencies, not as outside advisors or entities.” None of the people identified responded to requests for comment.

      Such weasel words.

      https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/01/21/politics/trump-temporary-security-clearances

      President Donald Trump is granting temporary, six-month security clearances to incoming White House officials who have not completed the vetting process typically required before being allowed to access highly-classified information, blaming a backlog of background checks that he helped cause.

      Yeah, they have security clearances, but they shouldn’t have them. They are not vetted.

      12 votes
      1. [2]
        nukeman
        Link Parent
        They may be somewhat vetted. If they have interim clearances, those undergo automated checks of federal, state, and local records to look for anything obvious. While they wouldn’t necessarily...

        They may be somewhat vetted. If they have interim clearances, those undergo automated checks of federal, state, and local records to look for anything obvious. While they wouldn’t necessarily catch things that would be caught in a full investigation (interviews, psych evals, potentially polygraphs), they would catch major issues (e.g., a DUI arrest).

        7 votes
  12. [2]
    patience_limited
    (edited )
    Link
    The DOGE Minions List. It's already being mooted that Musk's underlying game plan is the realization of Balaji Srinivasan's Network State ideology. Summary and constructive critique.

    The DOGE Minions List.

    It's already being mooted that Musk's underlying game plan is the realization of Balaji Srinivasan's Network State ideology. Summary and constructive critique.

    7 votes
    1. Hobofarmer
      Link Parent
      Network states is a very novel way of describing feudalism.

      Network states is a very novel way of describing feudalism.

      4 votes
  15. skybrian
    Link
    Treasury agrees to block DOGE’s access to personal taxpayer data at IRS (Washington Post)

    Treasury agrees to block DOGE’s access to personal taxpayer data at IRS (Washington Post)

    The Trump White House and Treasury Department officials have agreed to prohibit the U.S. DOGE Service from accessing personal taxpayer data, according to two people familiar with the arrangement, heading off a brewing privacy crisis at the tax agency.

    Gavin Kliger, a software engineer with Elon Musk’s DOGE effort assigned to the IRS, will have read-only access to anonymized tax data, the same access granted to academic researchers and IT professionals who work on IRS systems, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share details of the agreement.

    7 votes
  17. [2]
    jredd23
    Link
    Through my conversations with those who consider themselves "Democrat or Republican" I've said the same thing. Both right, and left leaning people are the Neville Chamberlain of our times. The...

    Through my conversations with those who consider themselves "Democrat or Republican" I've said the same thing. Both right, and left leaning people are the Neville Chamberlain of our times. The distinction of politics is not what Elon Musk is about. It's the realignment of the World Order. Money, power are the tools used to realign this view of this new World Order. Project 2025 may be the framework for this new world order. In this case, Elon may be a tool being used to implement it. Knowingly or not, he will be complicit in the actions being taken. The question I have is the same, who among the Western leaders will be the Churchill of our time. So far in the USA, the Democrats and Republicans have failed to counteract this view that Donald Trump has to his own benefit brought to power.

    5 votes
    1. IudexMiku
      Link Parent
      I feel like comparing the current US government to some conspiracy theory is a great exaggeration. The United States is not the entire world, and there is not an elaborate conspiracy to create a...

      I feel like comparing the current US government to some conspiracy theory is a great exaggeration. The United States is not the entire world, and there is not an elaborate conspiracy to create a world government.

      And the last thing the world needs is another Churchill. One was bad enough.

      5 votes
  19. skybrian
    Link
    DOGE deputy to oversee powerful Treasury system as Musk demands cuts (Washington Post) ...

    DOGE deputy to oversee powerful Treasury system as Musk demands cuts (Washington Post)

    The Treasury Department is appointing an ally of billionaire Elon Musk’s U.S. DOGE Service to a senior position in the department overseeing the nation’s powerful payment systems, according to two people with knowledge of the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to reflect private deliberations.

    Tom Krause, a Silicon Valley executive with ties to DOGE, will become the financial assistant secretary of the Treasury Department, the people said. He replaces David A. Lebryk, who resigned after objecting to Krause’s demands to stop payments on foreign aid — a measure Lebryk resisted as illegal.

    ...

    A federal judge on Thursday ordered that Krause’s access to records be “read-only,” but it’s unclear whether he will have broader authority to change payments after becoming the head of the Fiscal Service.

    On Thursday, the White House also said the second DOGE staffer assigned to Treasury — 25-year-old Marko Elez — would be stepping down after the Wall Street Journal surfaced his racist social media posts.

    5 votes
  20. redwall_hp
    Link
    Krebs on Security (a respected computer security blog) has a write up about the criminal past of one of one of Musk's DOGE minions. Teen on Musk’s DOGE Team Graduated from ‘The Com’

    Krebs on Security (a respected computer security blog) has a write up about the criminal past of one of one of Musk's DOGE minions.

    Teen on Musk’s DOGE Team Graduated from ‘The Com’

    5 votes
  21. [4]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    new executive order puts Musk in charge of all personnel decisions in the executive branch

    new executive order puts Musk in charge of all personnel decisions in the executive branch

    5 votes
    1. [3]
      Bet
      Link Parent
      What sort of Faustian bargain nonsense is this? And why are we all trapped in it? The norms of government seem to be deteriorating at breakneck speed.

      What sort of Faustian bargain nonsense is this? And why are we all trapped in it?

      The norms of government seem to be deteriorating at breakneck speed.

      5 votes
      2. boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        We are living in a new reality with new norms. The major question is how long will it continue this way

        We are living in a new reality with new norms.

        The major question is how long will it continue this way

        3 votes
  22. skybrian
    Link
    Records show how DOGE planned Trump’s DEI purge — and who gets fired next (Washington Post) Here is Washington Post's page about the document.

    Records show how DOGE planned Trump’s DEI purge — and who gets fired next (Washington Post)

    A team of workers from the U.S. DOGE Service developed step-by-step plans for carrying out President Donald Trump’s order to purge diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives from the federal government — and over the next six months intends to expand that campaign dramatically, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post. DOGE aims to target staffers who are not in DEI roles and employees who work in offices established by law to ensure equal rights, internal DOGE documents show.

    Here is Washington Post's page about the document.

    Reproduced below are selected portions of the documents, which were last edited in mid-January, and outline DOGE’s strategy from Day 1 to Day 180 of the administration.

    5 votes