This was coming eventually, and we all knew it. That it's happening now though, with the protests against ICE, no Kings Day/Military parade, and other parts of the world flaring up though. That is...
This was coming eventually, and we all knew it. That it's happening now though, with the protests against ICE, no Kings Day/Military parade, and other parts of the world flaring up though. That is really something.
Something else that's important, is that the Minnesota legislature is balanced. Or well, it was until this. Meaning this murder may not have just been out of political hatred but out of political strategy.
It's very easy to say "of course we knew it was coming" after the fact, but this is just pretending to be sophisticated. This specific attack wasn't predicted, and there isn't a trend (yet) of...
It's very easy to say "of course we knew it was coming" after the fact, but this is just pretending to be sophisticated. This specific attack wasn't predicted, and there isn't a trend (yet) of political assassination in the US. (Though, I suppose the murder of the UHS CEO was sort of similar?)
We could instead ask about what security precautions leaders need to take. I expect they're going to need more of them.
Not a trend of successful ones but people have been attacking politicians in increasing frequency, the insurrection, the shooting of Gabby Giffords, Steve Scalise, the attempt on Nancy Pelosi's...
Exemplary
and there isn't a trend (yet) of political assassination
Not a trend of successful ones but people have been attacking politicians in increasing frequency, the insurrection, the shooting of Gabby Giffords, Steve Scalise, the attempt on Nancy Pelosi's life (and her husband), the pipe bombs at the DNC HQ, the alleged attempts on Donald Trump, not to mention the uptick in interpersonal political violence...
Suffice it to say, there's a trend. We can know 'something' is coming without knowing when and where - otherwise there'd just be FPCON Normal and FPCON Delta.
Don't forget the attempted kidnapping of Governor Whitmer and the attempted assassination of Justice Salas (resulting in the killing of her son) by someone who was also plotting the assassination...
Don't forget the attempted kidnapping of Governor Whitmer and the attempted assassination of Justice Salas (resulting in the killing of her son) by someone who was also plotting the assassination of Justice Sotomayor.
Taylor Lorenz put out a really good video essay about the escalation of violent political rhetoric a few weeks ago. It's definitely worth a watch, especially if you aren't plugged into the latest...
Taylor Lorenz put out a really good video essay about the escalation of violent political rhetoric a few weeks ago. It's definitely worth a watch, especially if you aren't plugged into the latest online/TikTok trends.
An "escalation in the rhetoric" and actual political assassinations are two different things. If you could predict who would become a killer based on how they talk, the police would have a lot...
An "escalation in the rhetoric" and actual political assassinations are two different things. If you could predict who would become a killer based on how they talk, the police would have a lot easier job.
I don't think anyone's claiming that this specific attack by this specific perpetrator on these specific people was coming. But if you think that the collapsing rule of law, manifesting in black...
I don't think anyone's claiming that this specific attack by this specific perpetrator on these specific people was coming. But if you think that the collapsing rule of law, manifesting in black bag kidnappings by the state, met with unnecessary and unwanted military involvement as soon as people stood up to object, against a backdrop of dehumanising rhetoric and covert/overt calls for violence, weren't leading to acts of stochastic terrorism then I think you're being wilfully naive.
Until a while ago, I believed similarly. That was until someone close to me introduced me to the concept of stochastic terrorism: With the escalation of rhetoric, even worse “incidents” are made...
Until a while ago, I believed similarly. That was until someone close to me introduced me to the concept of stochastic terrorism: With the escalation of rhetoric, even worse “incidents” are made more likely, until a point is reached where they are essentially bound to occur. The two things are correlated, and this is why extremist propaganda spreading online is so dangerous: It doesn’t matter who specifically reads it, eventually, it will reach the correct person.
I believe this is (part of) how here in Europe, intelligence agencies regularly fail to catch people who radicalized online. They don’t necessarily have to have the old-school indoctrination connections and IRL (or hell, even online) contacts in place to become dangerous. It’s a function of people reached (as well as convinced) with the rhetoric, and time. Also, it essentially doesn’t matter what belief system, this will work for extreme right, left, radical islamic, etc. brainwashers.
They are two different things, and one of those things necessarily follows the other. That's what made it clear beforehand that events like this would happen and will again.
They are two different things, and one of those things necessarily follows the other. That's what made it clear beforehand that events like this would happen and will again.
I vehemently disagree. Every moderate and righty keeps saying "ah you're the boy who calls fascism," but this sort of thing was heavily implied with Project 2025's goals of ousting competent...
I vehemently disagree. Every moderate and righty keeps saying "ah you're the boy who calls fascism," but this sort of thing was heavily implied with Project 2025's goals of ousting competent people for cronies.
And the second that Trump called a moderate Democrat "the enemy from within," anybody with sense should have anticipated political violence.
Every single thing the Trump administration has done maps clearly on top of Weimar Germany's collapse to Nazi power. Almost terrifyingly so.
Stochastic terrorism works like global warming. You can't say that any particular storm was due to increasing temperature, but it's expected that extreme weather events will increase.
Stochastic terrorism works like global warming. You can't say that any particular storm was due to increasing temperature, but it's expected that extreme weather events will increase.
Yes, I agree. But this is only a vague and not very practically useful form of prediction. Maybe this is just a matter of emphasis? "I saw this coming" doesn't mean you can predict the weather far...
Yes, I agree. But this is only a vague and not very practically useful form of prediction.
Maybe this is just a matter of emphasis? "I saw this coming" doesn't mean you can predict the weather far in advance - as long as we're all clear on that, there's no real dispute.
Yeah, I think it's largely a matter of emphasis. Awareness of general trends is only somewhat useful for certain things - calculating insurance rates, generic disaster planning, and so on. I'd...
Yeah, I think it's largely a matter of emphasis. Awareness of general trends is only somewhat useful for certain things - calculating insurance rates, generic disaster planning, and so on.
I'd like to emphasize how much we don't know about specifics, to avoid a false sense of control.
Pretty sure this year also had a governor's house lit on fire. I believe another congressman also had an apparent attempt thwarted as well. Between those two and the situation in LA with a Senator...
there isn't a trend (yet) of political assassination in the US.
Pretty sure this year also had a governor's house lit on fire. I believe another congressman also had an apparent attempt thwarted as well. Between those two and the situation in LA with a Senator being detained and congressmen calling for Newsom's head: yeah, I did in fact know this was coming. Not literally "the Hortman family would be assassinated", but that things would escalated to political assassinations.The world's been overall on unrest for a few years now.
If you want to read further: the rest of the world isn't exactly in peace either. Two big wars going on and two others potentially escalating. A political assassination in Japan last year (a place where guns are banned),
Those are good examples. But I don't think being generally aware of political violence can be summarized as "I did in fact know this was coming." It seems like an exaggeration of what you knew? If...
Those are good examples. But I don't think being generally aware of political violence can be summarized as "I did in fact know this was coming." It seems like an exaggeration of what you knew? If it were the headline of a news article, it would be clickbait.
For the record I was in fact, talking about it in general. Not specific. Though lawmakers/senators being specifically targeted at some point doesn't surprise me, although it has been shocking to...
For the record
I was in fact, talking about it in general. Not specific. Though lawmakers/senators being specifically targeted at some point doesn't surprise me, although it has been shocking to me too and unexpected, especially given the timing with everything else going on. And I was also, in fact, talking about the general trend of violence including the healthcare CEO, as well as the attempt on Trump - but also amplified by the crumbling of the rule of law by ICE and DOGE.
Nor was I trying to sound sophisticated, to be blunt I have better things to do when the world is burning. But I'll keep it in mind for the future and be more specific.
Click bait not uncommonly used as of late. I believe just yesterday sherrifs were threatening the protests with more or less, "shoot a few and they'll scatter"? Though if you're using direct...
If it were the headline of a news article, it would be clickbait.
Click bait not uncommonly used as of late. I believe just yesterday sherrifs were threatening the protests with more or less, "shoot a few and they'll scatter"?
Though if you're using direct quotes, is it really click bait at that point? I suppose my main point is that we're in an environment that facilitates violence and it only takes one out of hundreds of millions to do this.
The combination of Paul Pelosi, Gabby Giffords and the Republican Congress member shot at the baseball game seems like more political violence recently than I remember from 2000 to 2010. Edit also...
The combination of Paul Pelosi, Gabby Giffords and the Republican Congress member shot at the baseball game seems like more political violence recently than I remember from 2000 to 2010.
Edit also the whitmer kidnapping attempt.
I do remember the Reagan assassination attempt but that was a one off event.
Sorry, but you seem to both misunderstand the comment you are replying to and the general state of US politics. They were not claiming to predict specific attacks on specific lawmakers. But plenty...
Sorry, but you seem to both misunderstand the comment you are replying to and the general state of US politics.
They were not claiming to predict specific attacks on specific lawmakers. But plenty of people have been predicting extreme violence against politicians due to extreme division and propaganda. We don't know exactly why this specific case has happened, but given the targets, it's relatively safe to assume it was politically motivated.
There have also been quite a few significant incidents in the past few years, as others have been.
I personally expected this would happen at some point. I've been specifically worried about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's safety, but this possibility has been firmly in my mind since the attack on...
I personally expected this would happen at some point. I've been specifically worried about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's safety, but this possibility has been firmly in my mind since the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul (which, reminder, was initially aimed at her).
With the escalating rhetoric and tensions, I knew it really was just a matter of time until some crazy person decided that attacking politicians would be "patriotic". We have multiple political assassinations when there isn't a nutjob in the White House who's actively hostile when speaking about anyone he dislikes, and that hostility is leaking everywhere. I absolutely expected someone would eventually decide to act out against "the enemy" whether because they worship Trump and have decided they loathe his enemies, or they just latched onto the overall political tension to fuel their own delusions or personal grudges/misgivings.
If anything, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.
Let's not forget about the shooter in DC at an informal baseball game including Steve Scalise, a few years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting. Or the attempt on...
It's like no one wants to hold them accountable, even though it's all plain to see. The lack of accountability is only going to cause them to continue to escalate; not that if you approached...
It's like no one wants to hold them accountable, even though it's all plain to see. The lack of accountability is only going to cause them to continue to escalate; not that if you approached anyone who said these things and asked them about it, they'd tell you it was "fake news."
And that will make people feel justified to use violence and even murder in return, no matter whether you agree with that or not. That cycle is as old as humanity... I hate to say this but I'd...
And that will make people feel justified to use violence and even murder in return, no matter whether you agree with that or not.
That cycle is as old as humanity...
I hate to say this but I'd recommend Americans on this site to stock up on medication, detergent and canned food in the event of widespread violence and disruptions of supply chains. Because the situation is very ripe for that.
Amen from an atheist. I have only wanted to believe in an afterlife since 2020 - humanity (or maybe just the west?) seems to get only increasingly depressing.
Amen from an atheist. I have only wanted to believe in an afterlife since 2020 - humanity (or maybe just the west?) seems to get only increasingly depressing.
From the most recent press conference, the shooter, at least whomever was at Representative Hortman's house, had an SUV that looked like a police vehicle with lights on, and was wearing a vest and...
From the most recent press conference, the shooter, at least whomever was at Representative Hortman's house, had an SUV that looked like a police vehicle with lights on, and was wearing a vest and belt and badge and looked like an officer. Police found him while he was exiting her house, exchanged gunshots and he ran.
They found a manifesto which included a list of targets but are not releasing it. Residents of the area are being asked to shelter in place and not to open the door for a police officer who is approaching solo without contacting 911 first. All police officers have been told not to approach people by themselves.
Well.... crap. It's possible. And that would be so much worse. A darkly cynical part of me just imagined a police officers lawyer successfully pleading qualified immunity due to no prior case...
Exemplary
Well.... crap.
It's possible. And that would be so much worse.
A darkly cynical part of me just imagined a police officers lawyer successfully pleading qualified immunity due to no prior case having found an officer guilty of executing a Minnesota Representative or Senator.
They said it was the correct model of SUV and had what appeared to be police lights. The police department directly interacted with him and the manifesto was in the car. They did specify he was...
They said it was the correct model of SUV and had what appeared to be police lights. The police department directly interacted with him and the manifesto was in the car.
They did specify he was not an actual officer. And they did not specify it was a marked car.
Quoted from the WaPo
The suspect was driving a car equipped with emergency lights that looked “exactly like” an SUV squad car, said Brooklyn Park Police Chief Mark Bruley. The individual also wore a vest with a taser and a badge, Bruley added. “If they were in this room, you would assume that they are a police officer,” he said.
I've never understood how the average person is expected to identify "actual police badge and uniform" vs "props that someone got on Etsy" at the best of times, even on close inspection. You could...
“If they were in this room, you would assume that they are a police officer,” he said.
I've never understood how the average person is expected to identify "actual police badge and uniform" vs "props that someone got on Etsy" at the best of times, even on close inspection. You could give me five minutes to look up the local badge design and compare, which obviously isn't going to happen in a lot of scenarios anyway, and all they need to do is claim they're from a different department/agency/seniority level/whatever to put the question back to square one.
Trump's anonymous thugs walking around looking like cosplayers obviously vastly exacerbates the issue, but even without them it seems like one of the many things that's been running for a long time on some baseline level of mutual trust in societal rules and norms rather than on actual, practical barriers.
Lots of stuff is mutual trust and norms. For instance, following court orders and Supreme Court judgments. But Trump and co have figured out that you just don’t have to do that. They’ve just...
Lots of stuff is mutual trust and norms. For instance, following court orders and Supreme Court judgments. But Trump and co have figured out that you just don’t have to do that. They’ve just disregarded a handful of orders at this point.
They have posted pictures of the No Kings flyers found on the car seat Why not post a picture of the car itself? Seems weird there are no pictures on the media of the scene on the street at this point
They have posted pictures of the No Kings flyers found on the car seat
Why not post a picture of the car itself? Seems weird there are no pictures on the media of the scene on the street at this point
It looks like they're showing this to demonstrate he was likely intending to target the rallies and to urge people not to attend. I suspect everything else is being restricted due to the...
It looks like they're showing this to demonstrate he was likely intending to target the rallies and to urge people not to attend. I suspect everything else is being restricted due to the investigation being very active.
And people are wondering why it's dangerous for ICE to move around in unmarked vehicles, masked, with no ID. Almost like any dude with a gun can pretend to be the police (and have, several times...
And people are wondering why it's dangerous for ICE to move around in unmarked vehicles, masked, with no ID. Almost like any dude with a gun can pretend to be the police (and have, several times this year) when you don't follow procedure.
Often times you can buy the decals. So buy a white version of whatever your local PD has (or buy a used police car at auction) and slap the stickers on it. Lights are harder. You can get smaller...
Often times you can buy the decals. So buy a white version of whatever your local PD has (or buy a used police car at auction) and slap the stickers on it.
Lights are harder. You can get smaller blue/red lighs on eBay (like you see mounted inside police cars) but getting the top mounted bar doesn't look very easy to get.
There was some guy who went on a shooting spree a few years ago in eastern Canada and he had made a credible looking police car.
Realistically, Black Ford Explorer with Cop Rims is enough to pass. Most people won't question that. Undercovers have all interior lights so you don't need anything external these days.
Realistically, Black Ford Explorer with Cop Rims is enough to pass. Most people won't question that. Undercovers have all interior lights so you don't need anything external these days.
Vance Boelter, the man identified as the suspect in the attacks on two lawmakers, is listed as the director of security patrols on the website of a Minnesota-based security group. “We drive the same make and model of vehicles that many police departments use in the U.S.,” the website says. The police have said the suspect was impersonating a police officer and had what appeared to be a police vehicle
The Hortman's golden retriever was also shot, and I just... There's something just additionally awful there or maybe I can't deal with the horror of it all so it's easier to fixate on a dog. But...
The Hortman's golden retriever was also shot, and I just... There's something just additionally awful there or maybe I can't deal with the horror of it all so it's easier to fixate on a dog. But like, the dog, like the daughter, couldn't have figured into the whole manifesto...
The stress of having lived in the US for half a year and having many connections there is already something... I really truly can't imagine what it must be like for actually being there. Take...
Idk. I don't know how to cope with it
The stress of having lived in the US for half a year and having many connections there is already something... I really truly can't imagine what it must be like for actually being there.
Take care. It's insane, and I hope a better future arrives for all of you all the same.
For anyone looking for it, link below for the full press conference, located on the Associated Press's YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KdWzzchleI The audio is a bit uneven so you'll...
For anyone looking for it, link below for the full press conference, located on the Associated Press's YT channel:
00:00:00 Our state lost a great leader and I lost a dearest of friends. Speaker Hortman was someone who served the people of Minnesota with grace, compassion, humor, and a sense of service. She was a formidable public servant, a fixture, and a giant in Minnesota. She woke up every day determined to make this state a better place. She is irreplaceable, and we've been missed by so many. Minnesota's thoughts and prayers are with her family, her loved ones, her children, and her parents. My prayers also go out
00:00:39 to State Senator John Hoffman and his wife Avette, who were each shot multiple times. The Hoffman are out of surgery at this time and receiving care, and we are cautiously optim optimistic they will survive this assassination attempt. This was an act of targeted political violence. Peaceful discourse is the foundation of our democracy. We don't settle our differences with violence or at gunpoint. in the state of Minnesota and as recently as last week in the most closely divided state legislature in the
00:01:14 country. We sat down, we worked things out, we debated, we shook hands and compromised, and we served the state of Minnesota together. We proved that it's possible, even in these politically charged times, to find compromise and adhere to the principles of democracy and civil discourse. We must all Minnesota and across the country stand against all forms of political violence. At this precipice moment we're on, this tragic act here in Minnesota should serve as a reminder to all of us. The democracy and the debates in the
00:01:56 halls of Congress, in state houses, in school boards is a way to settle our differences peacefully and move society to a better place. We're collaborating with all local, state, and federal agencies on a full investigation. We're committed to keeping motans informed as the situation continues. I assure you that those held those responsible for this will be held accountable and each and every one of us are committed to making sure that a tragedy like this never repeats itself in Minnesota or across this country. I'd
00:02:33 now like to turn it over to my public safety team to fill you in on um the specifics of this ongoing investigation. Thank you, Governor, and uh thank you everyone for being here today. My name is Drew Evans and I'm the superintendent at the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. I want to start by just expressing our deepest sympathies uh to the communities, the family, the friends, and everybody that cared about the individuals that were um gunned down uh today. When we have individuals like this and
00:03:08 our political leadership, they're not only political leaders, but they're members of the community, well-known members of the community. that the tragedy in a situation like this is not only for them, their friends and families, but us collectively, the communities they represent, us as a state of Minnesota as a whole. About 2 a.m. this morning, there was an original call in the city of Champlain where there was an individual that had shot Senator Hoffman and his wife. Police responded to that location. They were
00:03:36 dealing with that and working through that process overnight. And then later on at approximately 3:35 uh that another uh call came in when it was officers proactively checking because they knew of the incident that occurred and they were going to check on Speaker Hortman at that time at which time Brooklyn Park police officers encountered the individual who immediately fired at them and they exchanged gunfire and then the individual was able to escape during that exchange of gunfire. at the residence in Champion. There was
00:04:13 um life-saving measures that were provided there. Both individuals were transported as was uh previously noted and they both received uh surgeries uh for their injuries uh at the hospital and uh their conditions um at this time both those individuals, Senator Hoffman and his wife are both alive at this time. Um, but they suffered gunshot wounds and are obviously in a a difficult situation, but we're cautiously optimistic that they will continue to improve. At this time, it is a very active scene still as you've
00:04:44 seen. Uh, the Brooklyn Park Police Department along with other members, the Henipin County Sheriff's Office, State Patrol, FBI, BC, and many others are actively engaged in a manhunt for the individual that we believe is responsible for this. And so we'll be sharing that identity with those individuals as this progresses. But I'm going to caution you. I know there's going to be a ton of interest in this. We're not at the position we can do that as we're actively searching for that individual. Right now, just as noted,
00:05:11 we're um have teams and county sheriff's office and Champlain are working uh at the scene there that occurred there. And then we are also as we're stabilizing this between Brooklyn Park working on the homicide investigation with Brooklyn Park Police, the BCA, FBI is assisting there as well. and we'll be uh conducting crime scene investigation there. And then the individuals that were killed will be doing um autopsies of those individuals to determine the extent of their injuries and how they uh
00:05:38 passed away. But it was from gunshot wounds. At this time, I will answer questions after uh Commissioner Public Safety Bob Jacobson speaks, but we'll be happy to take a few questions. Thank you, Superintendent Evans. My name is Bob Jacobson. It's my honor to serve as the commissioner of public safety for the state of Minnesota. This is a dark day today for Minnesota and for democracy. But we will not allow fear or violence to define who we are or how we move forward. We will stand together and we will stand
00:06:21 strong. Our hearts of course go out to the victims, their families, their colleagues at the capital and to the communities that they serve with dedication and with integrity. These are public servants, leaders who committed their lives to improving the lives of others. And they were targeted in a violent and cowardly way. The suspect exploited the trust of our uniforms that our uniforms are meant present. That betrayal is deeply disturbing to those of us who wear the badge with honor and responsibility.
00:07:05 We want to reassure the public that there is increased security in place for elected officials and others who may be at risk. If you see anything suspicious, especially involving individuals impersonating law enforcement, please report it immediately by calling 911 or your local police department. With that, I'll step back and we will be available for any questions. Thank you. One reminder, please, as you ask your first questions, please don't forget to introduce yourselves, your media organization, and to the folks answering
00:07:41 the questions, please don't forget to repeat the question. So can you say one more time? So you just proactively check and then there exchange gun. Can you just go over that one time please? I can. Good morning. Police chief Mark Rudy Brooklyn Park Police Department. Uh the question is uh how did we get to um representative Hortman's house and it was proactively or not? Um the circumstances that unfolded in Brooklyn Park this morning is that we assisted the Champlain Police Department on a shooting. Uh that
00:08:16 shooting was made aware by one of our sergeants that it was at Senator Hoffman's home. In hearing that, that uh very intuitive sergeant asked our officers to go check on Melissa Hortman's home, uh representative that lives in our community just proactively as due diligence to swing by. That police officer and his partner uh pulled down the street. When they arrived at Melissa's house, they noticed that there was a police vehicle in the driveway with the lights, emergency lights on and what appeared to be a police officer at
00:08:44 the door coming out of the house. When our officers confronted them, um the individual immediately fired upon the officers who exchanged gunfire and the suspect retreated back into the home. Was this was this an actual police officer or impersonating police officer? Yes. The question is, was it a real person or a person imp personating impersonating a police officer? It was not a real police officer. This is somebody that clearly had been impersonating a police officer. Um, again, using the trust of this badge
00:09:14 and this uniform uh to manipulate their way into the home. So, the person not only was wearing a badge posing as police officer when they approached their victims, they had a car with lights and sirens. Yes. The question is uh how what kind of vehicle how were they dressed? Um they did drive a vehicle that looked exactly like an SUV squad car. Um it was equipped with lights, emergency lights that looked exactly like a police vehicle. And yes, they were wearing a vest um with taser, other equipment that
00:09:48 would um a badge very similar to mine that uh no question if they were in this room you would assume that they are a police officer. Can you describe the moments after that? Can you help us understand the next 10 15 minutes of you know how we got? Yeah, briefly. Um although I'm just going to remind us that this is an absolutely an active investigation. We have uh thousands of people sheltered in place in the city of Brooklyn Park right now. We are in a an extensive manhunt involving hundreds and hundreds of
00:10:22 police officers and SWAT teams uh searching ridding off areas as we believe confidently the suspect had fled out the back of the house after being confronted by the police. Uh very briefly after the officers had um exchanged gunfire and the suspect retreated into Melissa's home. They immediately went up to the threshold and looked in and seen a male that was down uh clearly had been struck by gunfire. They made limited penetration, grabbed a hold of the male, and drug him out to safety to attempt to first aid. However,
00:10:49 he was um pronounced dead shortly after that. At that point, the officers surrounded the house, got additional resources and SWAT resources um and then uh ultimately went in with a drone identifying a female in the home. How far are those two miles? I would say uh somewhere around five or six miles apart. How much do you know about The person that was impersonating an officer who allegedly shot these people. Did they knock on the door and people came to the door or the person? Yeah, it was it was knocking on the door and
00:11:22 asking the person to come out. Absolutely. Impersonating a police officer. Did you all have the suspect's car? We do have the suspect's car. Suspect is on foot. Um that is what the large scale search is current going on. I just remind residents of Brooklyn Park. Uh I know it's been a long time, but those that are in the grid that we gave the alert out to continue to shelter in place. We're also reminding them that if somebody comes to the door and they knock on the door and claiming to be a police officer, please do a
00:11:47 couple things. One, call 911 and confirm that the officer belongs there. If they are a police officer, dispatch will be able to confirm that that person's a police officer. Also, we've informed all our officers in Brooklyn Park that they are not to approach anybody by themselves. They're to approach in pairs, meaning two officers. So, if there's only one officer outside the door, do not answer the door um and call 911. If it's a Brooklyn Park Police officer or any of our partners that are assisting, they will come in pairs of
00:12:12 two or more. I'm sorry, one at a time. We do know that he did, but I'm going to hold that back as part of the investigation right now. This is a very large scale search, so we have detained several people and questioned them. Um, but we do not have anybody in custody at this time. You may not want to identify that person, but have you privately identified this suspect? We have people of interest that we are looking for. These are two democratic laws. Is there anything else to suggest? Um again, I want to hold back addition
00:12:57 most of the information. This is part of the investigation that we completed. Um this is rapidly evolving. Just occurred few hours ago and we're trying to sort it out. We have partners from the FBI, the BCA, the M County Sheriff's Office, and almost every suburban agency in our community helping us with this. So, um, it's very complex and working on it. What I will tell you, when we did a search of the vehicle, there wasn't a manifesto that identified many lawmakers and other officials. Um, we immediately
00:13:21 made alerts to the state um, who took action on alerting them and providing security where necessary. Um, and and that's about I'll stop there. Chief, thank you very much. We're going to take one more question with the BCA. Can I have You use the word target and that's kind of along the lines of Michelle's question in terms of politics and these are both Democrats. You said the word targeted. So targeted because they're politicians because well so the question is is uh were they targeted and when I
00:13:51 use the term why am I using the term as chief really noted there was a list of individuals and the individuals that were targeted in this situation were on that list. And so when we're looking at that, as Chief Rey said, it's far too early in the investigation to be able to provide information, but I do think we'll be in a position where we'll be able to develop uh the motivation behind uh these attacks and we'll be able to provide more information as this unfolds. And so that's part of the reason we're using it is I think there's
00:14:17 some preliminary information that is telling us kind of where this is headed. But we need a lot more work done by all the teams that are here working on that to be able to provide that with you with a degree of accuracy. quite a few. We're good. Thank you. Yep. Hold on. Colonel, do you want to talk about the rally at the capital? Good morning, Colonel Bogvich with the State Patrol. We are aware of the demonstrations across Minnesota, including the capital and across the nation. Uh we will work with our state
00:14:48 partners and our local partners um to provide security and safety for those that attend. Christine Miller, can you confirm that you will have Uh the question was will we have a sniper at the capital? We don't discuss our security plans on the capital grounds. Colonel, thank you. Thank you very much everybody for being here. Um we will I I think you do have and if you haven't let me know but we do have a place where you can send inquiries for either interview requests, information requests. We have our state
00:15:21 emergency operations center set up. If you need information on how to make those requests and make sure that we see them, let me know. [Music] Heat. Heat.
It gets worse: An SUV drove into a crowd of protestors in Culpepper, VA Shootings at a protest in SLC https://www.axios.com/2025/06/14/no-kings-protests-usa-june-14-trump-military-parade I keep...
It gets worse:
An SUV drove into a crowd of protestors in Culpepper, VA
I keep thinking of a line from Babylon 5 (the show feels increasingly prescient): "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Locally there were a few guys with their loud pickups and the giant flags on the back driving around the protests to yell things. At some point one of them parked (on a relatively busy 4 lane one...
Locally there were a few guys with their loud pickups and the giant flags on the back driving around the protests to yell things. At some point one of them parked (on a relatively busy 4 lane one way road) so he could argue or something
This guy had a Confederate flag and I'll say, somehow while he was parked that flag "fell" off the flagpole and the litter on the ground was picked up by a helpful citizen. (A reminder I'm in Illinois so... Why a Confederate flag, my guy) And ultimately while he tried to make an issue of his lost treason flag to the police officer and protest marshals, he was told to get the fuck back in his truck and go.
I'll say, I know that officer and he's earned community connections IMO.
Even Illinois has its backwater idiots. It's easy to forget that, while our voting districts and states vote "red" or "blue" that the reality is that the distribution is rarely weighted...
Even Illinois has its backwater idiots.
It's easy to forget that, while our voting districts and states vote "red" or "blue" that the reality is that the distribution is rarely weighted particularly far one way or the other.
And I'm always uncomfortable saying things such as this. I'm sure you already know this. I'm most always uncomfortable and irritated when people tell me information that I already know so I'm sensitive when I find myself doing it. Yet it seemed appropriate to say.
Oh i'm sorry, I didn't get the paywall (but firefox may have blocked it) Glad it was useful! Shit, @Deimos is there a way to bring this thread back so some of our comments can remain? I hate all...
Oh i'm sorry, I didn't get the paywall (but firefox may have blocked it)
Glad it was useful!
Shit, @Deimos is there a way to bring this thread back so some of our comments can remain? I hate all of this being lost...
This was coming eventually, and we all knew it. That it's happening now though, with the protests against ICE, no Kings Day/Military parade, and other parts of the world flaring up though. That is really something.
Something else that's important, is that the Minnesota legislature is balanced. Or well, it was until this. Meaning this murder may not have just been out of political hatred but out of political strategy.
And if that isn't scary I don't know what is.
It's very easy to say "of course we knew it was coming" after the fact, but this is just pretending to be sophisticated. This specific attack wasn't predicted, and there isn't a trend (yet) of political assassination in the US. (Though, I suppose the murder of the UHS CEO was sort of similar?)
We could instead ask about what security precautions leaders need to take. I expect they're going to need more of them.
Not a trend of successful ones but people have been attacking politicians in increasing frequency, the insurrection, the shooting of Gabby Giffords, Steve Scalise, the attempt on Nancy Pelosi's life (and her husband), the pipe bombs at the DNC HQ, the alleged attempts on Donald Trump, not to mention the uptick in interpersonal political violence...
Suffice it to say, there's a trend. We can know 'something' is coming without knowing when and where - otherwise there'd just be FPCON Normal and FPCON Delta.
Don't forget the attempted kidnapping of Governor Whitmer and the attempted assassination of Justice Salas (resulting in the killing of her son) by someone who was also plotting the assassination of Justice Sotomayor.
Taylor Lorenz put out a really good video essay about the escalation of violent political rhetoric a few weeks ago. It's definitely worth a watch, especially if you aren't plugged into the latest online/TikTok trends.
An "escalation in the rhetoric" and actual political assassinations are two different things. If you could predict who would become a killer based on how they talk, the police would have a lot easier job.
I don't think anyone's claiming that this specific attack by this specific perpetrator on these specific people was coming. But if you think that the collapsing rule of law, manifesting in black bag kidnappings by the state, met with unnecessary and unwanted military involvement as soon as people stood up to object, against a backdrop of dehumanising rhetoric and covert/overt calls for violence, weren't leading to acts of stochastic terrorism then I think you're being wilfully naive.
Until a while ago, I believed similarly. That was until someone close to me introduced me to the concept of stochastic terrorism: With the escalation of rhetoric, even worse “incidents” are made more likely, until a point is reached where they are essentially bound to occur. The two things are correlated, and this is why extremist propaganda spreading online is so dangerous: It doesn’t matter who specifically reads it, eventually, it will reach the correct person.
I believe this is (part of) how here in Europe, intelligence agencies regularly fail to catch people who radicalized online. They don’t necessarily have to have the old-school indoctrination connections and IRL (or hell, even online) contacts in place to become dangerous. It’s a function of people reached (as well as convinced) with the rhetoric, and time. Also, it essentially doesn’t matter what belief system, this will work for extreme right, left, radical islamic, etc. brainwashers.
They are two different things, and one of those things necessarily follows the other. That's what made it clear beforehand that events like this would happen and will again.
I vehemently disagree. Every moderate and righty keeps saying "ah you're the boy who calls fascism," but this sort of thing was heavily implied with Project 2025's goals of ousting competent people for cronies.
And the second that Trump called a moderate Democrat "the enemy from within," anybody with sense should have anticipated political violence.
Every single thing the Trump administration has done maps clearly on top of Weimar Germany's collapse to Nazi power. Almost terrifyingly so.
It's not "actually" fascism until we hit Five Nines, don'cha know.
Stochastic terrorism works like global warming. You can't say that any particular storm was due to increasing temperature, but it's expected that extreme weather events will increase.
Yes, I agree. But this is only a vague and not very practically useful form of prediction.
Maybe this is just a matter of emphasis? "I saw this coming" doesn't mean you can predict the weather far in advance - as long as we're all clear on that, there's no real dispute.
Yeah, I think it's largely a matter of emphasis. Awareness of general trends is only somewhat useful for certain things - calculating insurance rates, generic disaster planning, and so on.
I'd like to emphasize how much we don't know about specifics, to avoid a false sense of control.
Pretty sure this year also had a governor's house lit on fire. I believe another congressman also had an apparent attempt thwarted as well. Between those two and the situation in LA with a Senator being detained and congressmen calling for Newsom's head: yeah, I did in fact know this was coming. Not literally "the Hortman family would be assassinated", but that things would escalated to political assassinations.The world's been overall on unrest for a few years now.
If you want to read further: the rest of the world isn't exactly in peace either. Two big wars going on and two others potentially escalating. A political assassination in Japan last year (a place where guns are banned),
Those are good examples. But I don't think being generally aware of political violence can be summarized as "I did in fact know this was coming." It seems like an exaggeration of what you knew? If it were the headline of a news article, it would be clickbait.
For the record
I was in fact, talking about it in general. Not specific. Though lawmakers/senators being specifically targeted at some point doesn't surprise me, although it has been shocking to me too and unexpected, especially given the timing with everything else going on. And I was also, in fact, talking about the general trend of violence including the healthcare CEO, as well as the attempt on Trump - but also amplified by the crumbling of the rule of law by ICE and DOGE.
Nor was I trying to sound sophisticated, to be blunt I have better things to do when the world is burning. But I'll keep it in mind for the future and be more specific.
Click bait not uncommonly used as of late. I believe just yesterday sherrifs were threatening the protests with more or less, "shoot a few and they'll scatter"?
Though if you're using direct quotes, is it really click bait at that point? I suppose my main point is that we're in an environment that facilitates violence and it only takes one out of hundreds of millions to do this.
I think it's that once I started looking out for exaggeration, I started seeing it everywhere.
The combination of Paul Pelosi, Gabby Giffords and the Republican Congress member shot at the baseball game seems like more political violence recently than I remember from 2000 to 2010.
Edit also the whitmer kidnapping attempt.
I do remember the Reagan assassination attempt but that was a one off event.
Sorry, but you seem to both misunderstand the comment you are replying to and the general state of US politics.
They were not claiming to predict specific attacks on specific lawmakers. But plenty of people have been predicting extreme violence against politicians due to extreme division and propaganda. We don't know exactly why this specific case has happened, but given the targets, it's relatively safe to assume it was politically motivated.
There have also been quite a few significant incidents in the past few years, as others have been.
I personally expected this would happen at some point. I've been specifically worried about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's safety, but this possibility has been firmly in my mind since the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul (which, reminder, was initially aimed at her).
With the escalating rhetoric and tensions, I knew it really was just a matter of time until some crazy person decided that attacking politicians would be "patriotic". We have multiple political assassinations when there isn't a nutjob in the White House who's actively hostile when speaking about anyone he dislikes, and that hostility is leaking everywhere. I absolutely expected someone would eventually decide to act out against "the enemy" whether because they worship Trump and have decided they loathe his enemies, or they just latched onto the overall political tension to fuel their own delusions or personal grudges/misgivings.
If anything, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.
Let's not forget about the shooter in DC at an informal baseball game including Steve Scalise, a few years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shooting. Or the attempt on Nancy Pelosi (she wasn't home). Or January 6th. Or....
Escalation.
And two attempts on Trump.
Pretty dumb strategy given they just went out of session and won't be back till next year.
(Seems more like revenge to me.)
I really hope so, appreciated for (semi?)correcting me. I mean, it's still sickening, but if it's a strategy it'd get really bloody, soon.
No mention of previous comments at rallies from the GOP encouraging political violence. Weird.
It's like no one wants to hold them accountable, even though it's all plain to see. The lack of accountability is only going to cause them to continue to escalate; not that if you approached anyone who said these things and asked them about it, they'd tell you it was "fake news."
And that will make people feel justified to use violence and even murder in return, no matter whether you agree with that or not.
That cycle is as old as humanity...
I hate to say this but I'd recommend Americans on this site to stock up on medication, detergent and canned food in the event of widespread violence and disruptions of supply chains. Because the situation is very ripe for that.
Amen from an atheist. I have only wanted to believe in an afterlife since 2020 - humanity (or maybe just the west?) seems to get only increasingly depressing.
From the most recent press conference, the shooter, at least whomever was at Representative Hortman's house, had an SUV that looked like a police vehicle with lights on, and was wearing a vest and belt and badge and looked like an officer. Police found him while he was exiting her house, exchanged gunshots and he ran.
They found a manifesto which included a list of targets but are not releasing it. Residents of the area are being asked to shelter in place and not to open the door for a police officer who is approaching solo without contacting 911 first. All police officers have been told not to approach people by themselves.
I wonder how much it “looked like” a police vehicle.
Well.... crap.
It's possible. And that would be so much worse.
A darkly cynical part of me just imagined a police officers lawyer successfully pleading qualified immunity due to no prior case having found an officer guilty of executing a Minnesota Representative or Senator.
They said it was the correct model of SUV and had what appeared to be police lights. The police department directly interacted with him and the manifesto was in the car.
They did specify he was not an actual officer. And they did not specify it was a marked car.
Quoted from the WaPo
I've never understood how the average person is expected to identify "actual police badge and uniform" vs "props that someone got on Etsy" at the best of times, even on close inspection. You could give me five minutes to look up the local badge design and compare, which obviously isn't going to happen in a lot of scenarios anyway, and all they need to do is claim they're from a different department/agency/seniority level/whatever to put the question back to square one.
Trump's anonymous thugs walking around looking like cosplayers obviously vastly exacerbates the issue, but even without them it seems like one of the many things that's been running for a long time on some baseline level of mutual trust in societal rules and norms rather than on actual, practical barriers.
Lots of stuff is mutual trust and norms. For instance, following court orders and Supreme Court judgments. But Trump and co have figured out that you just don’t have to do that. They’ve just disregarded a handful of orders at this point.
They have posted pictures of the No Kings flyers found on the car seat
Why not post a picture of the car itself? Seems weird there are no pictures on the media of the scene on the street at this point
It looks like they're showing this to demonstrate he was likely intending to target the rallies and to urge people not to attend. I suspect everything else is being restricted due to the investigation being very active.
Picture of the vehicle being loaded up on a trailer
And people are wondering why it's dangerous for ICE to move around in unmarked vehicles, masked, with no ID. Almost like any dude with a gun can pretend to be the police (and have, several times this year) when you don't follow procedure.
Often times you can buy the decals. So buy a white version of whatever your local PD has (or buy a used police car at auction) and slap the stickers on it.
Lights are harder. You can get smaller blue/red lighs on eBay (like you see mounted inside police cars) but getting the top mounted bar doesn't look very easy to get.
There was some guy who went on a shooting spree a few years ago in eastern Canada and he had made a credible looking police car.
Realistically, Black Ford Explorer with Cop Rims is enough to pass. Most people won't question that. Undercovers have all interior lights so you don't need anything external these days.
Nyt live thread
The Hortman's golden retriever was also shot, and I just... There's something just additionally awful there or maybe I can't deal with the horror of it all so it's easier to fixate on a dog. But like, the dog, like the daughter, couldn't have figured into the whole manifesto...
Idk. I don't know how to cope with it
Hugs.
We are living through dark times
The stress of having lived in the US for half a year and having many connections there is already something... I really truly can't imagine what it must be like for actually being there.
Take care. It's insane, and I hope a better future arrives for all of you all the same.
For anyone looking for it, link below for the full press conference, located on the Associated Press's YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KdWzzchleI
The audio is a bit uneven so you'll have to raise your volume at times.
Unofficial transcript:
It gets worse:
An SUV drove into a crowd of protestors in Culpepper, VA
Shootings at a protest in SLC
https://www.axios.com/2025/06/14/no-kings-protests-usa-june-14-trump-military-parade
I keep thinking of a line from Babylon 5 (the show feels increasingly prescient): "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Locally there were a few guys with their loud pickups and the giant flags on the back driving around the protests to yell things. At some point one of them parked (on a relatively busy 4 lane one way road) so he could argue or something
This guy had a Confederate flag and I'll say, somehow while he was parked that flag "fell" off the flagpole and the litter on the ground was picked up by a helpful citizen. (A reminder I'm in Illinois so... Why a Confederate flag, my guy) And ultimately while he tried to make an issue of his lost treason flag to the police officer and protest marshals, he was told to get the fuck back in his truck and go.
I'll say, I know that officer and he's earned community connections IMO.
Even Illinois has its backwater idiots.
It's easy to forget that, while our voting districts and states vote "red" or "blue" that the reality is that the distribution is rarely weighted particularly far one way or the other.
And I'm always uncomfortable saying things such as this. I'm sure you already know this. I'm most always uncomfortable and irritated when people tell me information that I already know so I'm sensitive when I find myself doing it. Yet it seemed appropriate to say.
You're fine, I do know it but it's the sort of thing where in a public thread everyone might not.
Wife of suspected shooter found with passports, cash, gun and ammunition
Suspect's vehicle found a few miles from his home, as well as info about the wife being detained
(This might be all the same info but just in case!)
It's not the same information although there is some overlap. Thanks. I don't usually create accounts to get around soft paywalls, but I was curious.
Oh i'm sorry, I didn't get the paywall (but firefox may have blocked it)
Glad it was useful!
Shit, @Deimos is there a way to bring this thread back so some of our comments can remain? I hate all of this being lost...