All of this oscillation business goes right back to Tesla, and the claim that he could transmit phenomenal amounts of energy just by crossing a pair of electromagnetic waves at the point in the...
It's just a story. Any physics that Tesla and Maxwell could get their hands on is pretty trivial in our labs (and garages) today. If it were that easy to fuck up the universe and bend spacetime to our will, we'd have long since figured it out. Someone, somewhere, would have tripped over the same things again, and it would have only gotten easier over time. It didn't happen. We would also require staggering amounts of energy for this manipulation if it were even possible, so there has to be a free-energy system in there somewhere to power it. Wormholes are a lot less sexy if every time you open one, a star winks out of existence to power it, and that's the kind of energy we're talking about here.
It's the J-Bomb from The Genesis Machine in a nutshell. Good scifi novel and in your situation you may find it pretty amusing reading.
For what it's worth, Tesla was an inventor, not really a scientist (he for example didn't believe in electrons themselves, even though it was already the generally accepted theory at the time),...
For what it's worth, Tesla was an inventor, not really a scientist (he for example didn't believe in electrons themselves, even though it was already the generally accepted theory at the time), and was an all-around.. less than stable person. He invented some great things for sure, but we should separate the "man from the myth", because the latter has grown to some insane levels.
I’m very curious: what is your opinion of Terry Lovelace’s story? I found him fairly credible and his story to be compelling. But I am a “I want to believe” type person so I’m curious what others...
I’m very curious: what is your opinion of Terry Lovelace’s story? I found him fairly credible and his story to be compelling. But I am a “I want to believe” type person so I’m curious what others think.
Also, would you be willing to share more detail about your thoughts on Bob Lazar? His was the first UFO story that ever made me think any of them could be true. I know about some of the issues and questions around the veracity of his claims and his credibility in general, but I’m curious what your thoughts are.
I tend to fall into the camp that believes the modern alien phenomena are among a family of experiences including historically mythical phenomena such as fairies, gnomes, leprechauns, events of...
I tend to fall into the camp that believes the modern alien phenomena are among a family of experiences including historically mythical phenomena such as fairies, gnomes, leprechauns, events of "mass hysteria", etc... I think there is a connection between the hidden depths of the human psyche and the outward experience of these phenomena.
I also believe the universe is too big for there to be no other sentient life, though the distances involved are so vastly large, it's hard to understand how beings could jaunt around in meatspace as if they were heading down to the local pharmacy.
I think proof is elusive because this phenomena is not completely objective even though it may be experienced as such.
I doubt it's a psyop, but I think there are those who are using the public's belief as a lever.
Have you heard of Jaques Vallee? He believes that aliens are more like to be inter dimensional than extra terrestrial and that all anomalous phenomenon stems from the same source. He goes through...
I tend to fall into the camp that believes the modern alien phenomena are among a family of experiences including historically mythical phenomena such as fairies, gnomes, leprechauns, events of "mass hysteria", etc... I think there is a connection between the hidden depths of the human psyche and the outward experience of these phenomena.
Have you heard of Jaques Vallee? He believes that aliens are more like to be inter dimensional than extra terrestrial and that all anomalous phenomenon stems from the same source. He goes through the history of these kinds of encounters in his book and finds connections between fairy encounters and modern alien encounters.
Yes, Passport to Magonia is great. I believe the scientist in Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind was based on Vallee. His views influenced my current thoughts on the phenomenon, for sure
Yes, Passport to Magonia is great. I believe the scientist in Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind was based on Vallee. His views influenced my current thoughts on the phenomenon, for sure
Love Vallee, I also love John Keel even though he is a bit more “out there”. I’m glad to see these names out here as opposed to the standard extraterrestrial hypothesis
Love Vallee, I also love John Keel even though he is a bit more “out there”. I’m glad to see these names out here as opposed to the standard extraterrestrial hypothesis
Very compelling absolutely, I keep coming back to this quote from Anne Strieber “Whitley, what we think of as alien contact has something to do with what we call death”. This area is often...
Very compelling absolutely, I keep coming back to this quote from Anne Strieber “Whitley, what we think of as alien contact has something to do with what we call death”.
This area is often unexplored in contemporary UFOlogy, but there is a vast amount of information regarding strikingly similar phenomenon in the past. As Vallee would aptly describe the “control system hypothesis” the phenomenon adjusts to the prevailing ontology of the time and culture.
I can go on and on about this stuff, can’t talk to my loved ones or friends about it as they think I’m crazy, but I view it as similar to interests in religiosity or philosophy.
Glad to hear from others who share these thoughts. Though they are more common than they once were, the traditional "nuts and bolts" theories still reign. Given your comments and username, I'd...
Glad to hear from others who share these thoughts. Though they are more common than they once were, the traditional "nuts and bolts" theories still reign. Given your comments and username, I'd like to recommend a podcast that covers these kinds of ideas and more. Weird Studies approaches unconventional and weird topics through a lens that combines the philosophical, occult, humanistic, and pop cultural beats not commonly seen in the same room. And they leave a lot of the sideshow elements of modern podcasts at the door, which is nice (looking at you LPOtL...),
I wrote out some things but, you’re right it is a difficult concept. I am thinking I will make a post about it, maybe in ~books regarding the book Passport to Magonia.
I wrote out some things but, you’re right it is a difficult concept. I am thinking I will make a post about it, maybe in ~books regarding the book Passport to Magonia.
I’m basically in this camp. I don’t think there are ETs flying around out there, and I think the videos/pictures we have, where they aren’t deliberate hoaxes, almost always have other...
I’m basically in this camp. I don’t think there are ETs flying around out there, and I think the videos/pictures we have, where they aren’t deliberate hoaxes, almost always have other explanations. I think these Navy/Pentagon photos that have drummed up interest in recent years are probably just some government tech (not necessarily US govt).
That being said, I think people genuinely have powerful experiences that they cannot explain. Not everyone who says they’ve seen or been abducted by a UFO is just making shit up — I think they genuinely believe it. And these are normal, everyday people who are often in respectable positions who end up ‘giving it all up’ by going public. If you think you’ve had an encounter, it is almost always easier to just stay quiet about it. Telling others leads to ridicule and derision and, contrary to what some may think, I don’t think it often is very profitable. So these people must really believe and have been affected by it to feel the need to go public.
I agree that older objects of folklore like gnomes and elves (or similar beings which exist across cultures) are manifestations of the same phenomena in the human brain. I don’t know if it’s the brain short circuiting or what, but something can happen to people to convince them they’ve seen something unexplainable, and it’s been happening for a long time.
I’ve always found the topic interesting because the way that these experiences get expressed and transmitted (whether it be as elves, aliens, etc) tells us a lot about how people relate to the world I think. In any case it’s fun to think about.
I'll throw my two cents in. A) There's no alien life on Earth. Never was. Likely never will be. B) There's almost certainly other life in the universe. I don't recall the math behind it, but the...
I'll throw my two cents in.
A) There's no alien life on Earth. Never was. Likely never will be.
B) There's almost certainly other life in the universe. I don't recall the math behind it, but the shear size and time span of the universe makes it almost certain.
C) It's incredibly unlikely that the other life will make its way to us or even communicate in any way that we would notice.
All the stories from "credible" sources are just plain old examples of: the human mind's desire to explain everything in terms it knows and everything else goes into a bucket of aliens or god.
I think the most egregious examples are most likely people who want to believe aliens are here and twist the facts to fit that narrative, explaining away most of the arguments against it. Even the stories that supposedly have sensor facts behind them are likely just unexplained phenomena that we don't understand or can't explain. Very unlikely to be aliens though. There's still much that we don't know about physics, life, and our own planet.
These are mostly my thoughts as well. The extreme amount of energy and effort required to travel space is insane. The idea that a species- Can do this or has found a way around it. Chooses to be...
These are mostly my thoughts as well. The extreme amount of energy and effort required to travel space is insane.
The idea that a species-
Can do this or has found a way around it.
Chooses to be hidden
Except for some times when it’s not
Is just insanely hard to believe. Especially with so much hobby and commercial observation going on.
Every supposed instance is explained by much more common phenomena(or more often extremely routine glitches or misinterpretations).
Further SETI is a thing. Theres an entire field of scientists looking for this information who would be jumping up and down screaming if there was even the slightest shred of credible evidence.
There’s just too many coincidences that have happen to make the supposed evidence correct. IF life in the universe ever frequents our system it will likely be EXTREMELY obvious. Oh my god particles obvious
B) There's almost certainly other life in the universe. I don't recall the math behind it, but the shear size and time span of the universe makes it almost certain.
The "Criticisms" part of it pretty succinctly expressed how I felt about the point that OP was making. "No statistical estimates are possible for some of the parameters, where only one example is...
The "Criticisms" part of it pretty succinctly expressed how I felt about the point that OP was making.
"No statistical estimates are possible for some of the parameters, where only one example is known."
You can't say that other life in the universe is "almost certain" when your sample size is 1.
I want there to be other life in the universe, but I can't make a claim on whether there is or not.
The data that we've gathered about extra terrestrial life (all the habitable planets we've looked at, all the potential solar systems, and all the galaxies in the observable universe) isn't telling us the odds of life in other planets, but it's instead highlighting how rare we are to exist at all.
I believe alien life has existed, exists or will exist, but I don't believe they have visited our neck of the woods in our history. I think that if governments knew aliens have visited Earth we...
I believe alien life has existed, exists or will exist, but I don't believe they have visited our neck of the woods in our history.
I think that if governments knew aliens have visited Earth we would not be spending nearly as much money on waging land wars with each other and rather we'd been pooling all our resources into establishing a presence in space. We'd be much more focused on setting up factories on the moon and working on harvesting resources from asteroids in order to set up defenses and outposts. Even if they were trying to keep the existence of aliens quiet from the public they'd have come up with some excuse to do so.
I definitely don't think we're alone, and don't mind letting myself fall into some of the evidence like the footage the US military has confirmed real. I also enjoy reading leaks and...
I definitely don't think we're alone, and don't mind letting myself fall into some of the evidence like the footage the US military has confirmed real.
I also enjoy reading leaks and whistleblowers but more like a sci-fi than actual news, like a mental exercise in what types of things could be true. I really enjoyed reading through the recent 4chan "whistleblower", the same way I would an episode of X-Files or Star Trek.
Does the government know a lot more than they're telling us? Maybe, and maybe we'll find out, maybe it'll even be in my lifetime, I'll keep up my hopes but I'm definitely not going to hold my breath.
Alien life almost certainly exists somewhere. The universe is disgustingly huge, and I'm sure life has popped up an uncounted number of times. I also think we'll never meet it, for the same...
Alien life almost certainly exists somewhere. The universe is disgustingly huge, and I'm sure life has popped up an uncounted number of times. I also think we'll never meet it, for the same reason; the stupid size of the universe, and how slow the speed of light (aka, the speed of causality) is. As far as we've been able to tell for centuries, that really is a hard limit in anything. Nothing, absolutely nothing, can travel faster than the speed of light. And without that, we live in a very tiny bubble.
People have been reporting UFOs for a long time. They've also been reporting Bigfoot, ghosts, the Loch Ness monster and the chupacabra. They're not lying, that's just how people are. Our brains fill in the gaps when we encounter unexplained phenomena.
I think it’s almost inevitable that life has arisen many, many times and will continue to do so. Suitable conditions might be uncommon, but given the size of the universe, there are literally...
I think it’s almost inevitable that life has arisen many, many times and will continue to do so. Suitable conditions might be uncommon, but given the size of the universe, there are literally billions of planets in conditions broadly similar to ours. Self-replicating chemicals develop with some probability, again highly likely given enough time and enough candidate planets or moons with the right base chemistry. This is right on the verge of simple life, and once a system involves self-replication, natural selection can take over to generate more stable self sustaining life of some sort.
However, there is nothing in this process that drives life toward sentience, much less the kinds of technological capabilities we have. Most of the history of life on earth has been simple and unicellular. Most of the life on earth right now is simple and unicellular. Our strange species arose by chance and is a rounding error on a rounding error on a rounding error.
It doesn’t seem impossible to me that there are other intelligent or technologically capable species in the universe, but I think the jump from “life” to “space-faring species” is much more unlikely than people tend to give it credit. And even if it has / will happen on some proportion of planets with life, the probability that it happens concurrently with earth is another vanishingly small probability.
We’ve had technology capable of producing radio waves since 1888. That’s 135yrs / 200,000 yrs of our species = 0.07% when we’ve been able to transmit information to space. Life on earth has been around for about 4,000,000,000 years. That’s 0.000003% of the time. Life on other planets almost certainly will not be technologically capable.
I believe in life outside of Earth. I have skepticism (but not outright denial) of life that has visited Earth. Numbers back up the first, evidence betrays the second.
I believe in life outside of Earth. I have skepticism (but not outright denial) of life that has visited Earth. Numbers back up the first, evidence betrays the second.
I'm agnostic about aliens, pretty much like I'm agnostic about a god. There very well may be, but all rationality since the beginning of that rationality very clearly demonstrates that we lack...
I'm agnostic about aliens, pretty much like I'm agnostic about a god.
There very well may be, but all rationality since the beginning of that rationality very clearly demonstrates that we lack sufficient evidence to say yes, life (or god) - intelligent or otherwise - exists. Until such evidence exists, I'm spending my very limited time in this mortal frame in more productive pursuits. For example, I'm making lasagna for dinner...
Beyond the X-Files and other pop culture that celebrates the extraterrestrial, I just... don't care. Not in a negative sense, but that it doesn't matter. If there's some advanced species out there...
Beyond the X-Files and other pop culture that celebrates the extraterrestrial, I just... don't care. Not in a negative sense, but that it doesn't matter. If there's some advanced species out there that can vaporize our planet or subjugate us without a second thought, nothing I can say, do, or think is going to affect that, so I don't want to waste my time stressing about it.
And if they're of similar technology, or we learn to communicate? Cool, people a lot smarter than me will handle that. It genuinely feels like getting caught up in it beyond science fiction is just a form of unnecessary escapism. I'm not talking about people that go to, like, UFOCon and get a funny flying saucer hat and a backpack shaped like a little green man for fun. I mean the people who genuinely believe that the government is hiding something.
If every world government is hiding information and nothing is getting out, given the state of, well, everything... that uh, seems fine, I guess? I assume they'd have a good reason. Even if they don't, I'm some dude typing a message from his computer. I can complain online, rally a protest group for... some reason, or I can just not worry about it. If people really need to focus outwardly on some major cover up in the world, why not the Panama Papers leak? The Jeffrey Epstein clusterfuck? The Uyghur genocide? The US's unending war machine that spent the better part of 2 decades marching people into a life of PTSD in the Middle East while collecting war crimes like Pokemon cards?
Obviously the answer is because that's not fantastical enough, but like... those things matter, too. And there's no debating reality, and it's something that - even if a singular person can't enact change on it - is worth talking about. Aliens, UFOs, the extraterrestrial, it's fun to think about but until it matters, it doesn't.
excuse me for being quite curt but most of that is just conspiracy theory rubbish to me… especially the “mass psyop” thing. and the people you’ve talked about with “claims” are just irrelevant...
excuse me for being quite curt but most of that is just conspiracy theory rubbish to me… especially the “mass psyop” thing. and the people you’ve talked about with “claims” are just irrelevant grifters that i hope to not hear about ever.
it’s really unlikely but i would hate to see tildes be overtaken by conspiracionist types. but that’s very unlikely.
I could see a place for a group like ~conspiracy or ~paranormal or ~unexplained for discussions like these. They're not really of interest to me either but it would be trivial to unsubscribe from...
I could see a place for a group like ~conspiracy or ~paranormal or ~unexplained for discussions like these. They're not really of interest to me either but it would be trivial to unsubscribe from it and avoid those threads altogether. (Of course, you can also filter out the “aliens” and “conspiracy theories” tags right now for roughly the same effect.)
I think allowing the conversations to happen, but curating your own exposure to them, is a reasonable solution to the “Tildes being overtaken” concern you mention.
well in reddit they’d stay contained to their little subreddit box that i would be able to stay away from very easily, but in tildes there is a certain cross-pollination, so i’m not sure groups...
well in reddit they’d stay contained to their little subreddit box that i would be able to stay away from very easily, but in tildes there is a certain cross-pollination, so i’m not sure groups like that would be well-advised…
I agree it is rubbish but I also don’t think OP was really expressing that as a belief, just claiming that other people say that. Which they do! And that can be worth discussing. And based on the...
I agree it is rubbish but I also don’t think OP was really expressing that as a belief, just claiming that other people say that. Which they do! And that can be worth discussing.
And based on the vast majority of answers in this thread I think there’s little risk of Tildes being over run by conspiracy theorists. And if it seem to be trending that way I would hope (and think) the community would address it.
yeah true, i honestly feel bad for making this comment now, it was probably too antagonistic… which i know i unfortunately can be sometimes yeah, of course :)
I agree it is rubbish but I also don’t think OP was really expressing that as a belief, just claiming that other people say that. Which they do! And that can be worth discussing.
yeah true, i honestly feel bad for making this comment now, it was probably too antagonistic… which i know i unfortunately can be sometimes
And based on the vast majority of answers in this thread I think there’s little risk of Tildes being over run by conspiracy theorists. And if it seem to be trending that way I would hope (and think) the community would address it.
Are we alone? Obviously not. The math does not support that conclusion and never has - life is not unique to this planet. As for any other life out there making it to the level of intelligence to...
Are we alone? Obviously not. The math does not support that conclusion and never has - life is not unique to this planet. As for any other life out there making it to the level of intelligence to communicate with us, and it happening in a place where we have overlapping light cones, that's a different question. It's likely that our nearest cosmic neighbors are too far away in space and in time to interact with us, four galaxies away somewhere. There is zero proof of extra dimensions, and yes, that means string theory is just as much BS as aliens. Sorry.
I'm a fan of the idea that intelligence is once-in-a-galaxy rare and not necessarily an inevitability when life evolves. I also believe that most races aren't all that keen on colonizing their entire galaxy - once you can be a god in a virtual universe, there's a lot less reason to explore the physical one. I bet most of them never leave home. We're the crazy ones who just have to see what's over the next hill solar system. That's not necessarily a universal sentiment.
I think intelligence assets and scammers have corrupted the discussion space to the point where it's impossibly unproductive. I do think I've seen enough pilots and engineers come forward to lend credibility to the idea that something is in fact out there, though. That many intelligent people with multiple degrees and decades of experience in difficult jobs that require brains and level headedness did not suddenly all have strokes or contract mass hysteria - the math does not support that conclusion either.
If the US does in fact have crashed craft, great, we just won the cosmic lottery and got a leg up on this 4X game that borders on a cheat code. Share it with the world immediately. The dead heads in the military aren't mentally equipped to figure out how that stuff works and they never will be - secrecy defeats innovation and discovery every time, and then when you pile classic military catch-22 on top you go backwards. Next we'll find out that the missing planet 9 is actually a primordial black hole we can study in our own solar system for maximum cheese.
There will be no mass hysteria. People will geek out for a little while, then go back to work and xbox. It does not affect their day to day lives, there will be no panic or craziness outside of a few loons on a vindication high. It will actually change very little other than the direction of a couple long running debates. If Elerium-113 actually does exist, good, it can teach us how to stabilize heavy elements and control radioactive decay. Let's get on that right away and get our free energy machines up and running. We're going to need them.
If this is indeed a secret that has been kept since the 50s, I am more interested in reading someone's bio/book on how that was achieved than I am in looking at pictures of the alien craft they've got locked up somewhere. That would make for the most epic spy biopic of all time. Secrets are not easy to keep for this long - someone has found a social hack and I want to know how that's done.
Re:3 - The USA has a vested interest in making adversaries, like China and Russia, think we've got tech that's 1000 years ahead of them. If they are scared of that, then they aren't likely to pick a fight with us because they expect to get annihilated.
As for which of the various crazy rabbit holes was the most interesting to me, I have to hand it to Billy Carson and Graham Hancock.
Billy's theory is so crazy awesome it should be a series of novels - worship genes and telomere caps is just the start. Graham's apocalyptic attack on archaeology has been a hoot too. It's worth watching his netflix special Ancient Apocalypse if and only if you also watch a real archaeologist utterly obliterate it for the bullshit propaganda it is.
That's exactly how I feel at the end of the whole discussion. Very anticlimactic.
People will geek out for a little while, then go back to work and xbox. It does not affect their day to day lives, there will be no panic or craziness outside of a few loons on a vindication high. It will actually change very little other than the direction of a couple long running debates.
That's exactly how I feel at the end of the whole discussion. Very anticlimactic.
I'd give them an Atlantis parked on the mid-atlantic ridge right where Plato put it, while that was above sea level, and a comet putting it at the bottom of the ocean within a week by vaporizing...
I'd give them an Atlantis parked on the mid-atlantic ridge right where Plato put it, while that was above sea level, and a comet putting it at the bottom of the ocean within a week by vaporizing ice caps and shifting the weight at the poles. I can see that happening, and Randall's got some pretty decent (but not ironclad) evidence for this. I'd even give Graham a few Atlantean survivors taking what's left of their ships and heading out around the world to start over. That's it, though. This was not a globe spanning civilization and they were likely not much more advanced than the Romans at best. They didn't invent stacking rocks, they weren't giants, and they did not have magical healing bags full of high tech toys better than ours. We'll find out once Jim Cameron figures out how to dig up the bottom of the ocean bed there. It's just two miles of water, no big deal. :P
I'm trying to imagine what it looks like when your entire continent just... sinks. That had to be insane.
The chances of life existing anywhere is tiny, but the universe is so vast that there's likely life out there somewhere. The chance of intelligent life is miniscule. And the chances that aliens...
The chances of life existing anywhere is tiny, but the universe is so vast that there's likely life out there somewhere. The chance of intelligent life is miniscule. And the chances that aliens are smart enough to invent interestellar travel while also dumb enough to crash on Earth are non-existent. Besides the statistics, we have some of the most powerful photographic and videographic devices in the history of humanity just sitting in our pockets, carried by a huge number of people across the entire planet, and yet there are no credible sightings of aliens with reputable evidence. The facts speak for themselves.
Not only crashing on earth but always in America. That’s the biggest tell for me that its not aliens! I’m sure there are some American conspiracy theorists who believe America to be so powerful...
Not only crashing on earth but always in America. That’s the biggest tell for me that its not aliens! I’m sure there are some American conspiracy theorists who believe America to be so powerful that aliens would of course be only looking at them, but really…
That really is the best tell that all of this is some kind of bullshit or another. Forget nanotech. If you have femtotech and attotech, you literally are magic, and immortal, and capable of...
And the chances that aliens are smart enough to invent interestellar travel while also dumb enough to crash on Earth are non-exist
That really is the best tell that all of this is some kind of bullshit or another. Forget nanotech. If you have femtotech and attotech, you literally are magic, and immortal, and capable of running your mental process so fast that reality is frozen for you while you patiently think about things. Nukes are about as threatening to you as a blade of grass. If you can cross interstellar distances, by definition that means there are certain problems you do not have anymore.
I'm more of a Fermi/Drake person. It's probable that other life exists, but it's incredibly difficult to overcome the Great Filter. The combination of all of these equates to it's likely humanity...
I'm more of a Fermi/Drake person. It's probable that other life exists, but it's incredibly difficult to overcome the Great Filter. The combination of all of these equates to it's likely humanity will never know if other life exists in the universe without crossing the Great Filter threshold itself, which is seemingly eons away.
For all of these situations and encounters, it's far more likely (statistically) that people are fallible. While they may genuinely believe they've interacted with life beyond our own world, it's significantly more probable they are just mistaken and that their grab bags of circumstantial evidence are an attempt to justify a faulty memory.
Life is probably out there. We're not special. It's just probably not so ubiquitous and advanced that it's demurely tiptoeing around earth.
On the other hand, it does feel a bit like we're staring down the great filter these days. ;) Anyway, I generally agree with what you've said except I err on the side of life being fairly...
On the other hand, it does feel a bit like we're staring down the great filter these days. ;)
Anyway, I generally agree with what you've said except I err on the side of life being fairly ubiquitous. Complex life, not so much. But the numbers involved are so huge that I can't wrap my head around anything other than, yes, we're not alone in the universe.
I suspect the real issue, in terms of why haven't we found anyone yet, is just a matter of distance. My gut feeling is there's no readily available way to cross interstellar space in reasonable amounts of time.
Nobody has to demurely tiptoe around. They can stomp around all they want, but nobody will hear it for millions of years, and only if they happen to be facing the right way
When I was younger I was very skeptical about the subject. Right up until the day that I saw a huge neon green orb exhibiting bizarre, impossible flight patterns. I believe that aliens, UAP,...
When I was younger I was very skeptical about the subject. Right up until the day that I saw a huge neon green orb exhibiting bizarre, impossible flight patterns.
I believe that aliens, UAP, fairies, cryptids, anomalous phenomena in general all stem from inter dimensional forces/beings. You should checkout Jacques Valles books for a more detailed discussion of the matter.
I believe that humans also have more to us than our physical form, but that is an entirely different subject and dives more into the occult.
I believe we are not alone in the universe. I believe there certainly exist some form of life somewhere else. I also believe that this life from sonewhere else never came to the Earth or even...
I believe we are not alone in the universe. I believe there certainly exist some form of life somewhere else.
I also believe that this life from sonewhere else never came to the Earth or even anywhere near the Sun. So I believe that authorities are not hiding anything from us. Well, not about aliens I mean... They certainly hide lots of other things :-D
Agreed, I believe that if the US has UAPs or whatever hidden somewhere, they're likely prototype vehicles or drones of some kind by themselves or their enemies. I don't deny that UAPs are a thing,...
So I believe that authorities are not hiding anything from us. Well, not about aliens I mean...
Agreed, I believe that if the US has UAPs or whatever hidden somewhere, they're likely prototype vehicles or drones of some kind by themselves or their enemies. I don't deny that UAPs are a thing, but I think they're very likely of human origin, if not explainable as natural phenomena of some kind. At least that's what makes sense to me, super sneaky aliens visiting us for centuries and no one has concrete proof sounds far fetched to say the least, although I won't deny that I do enjoy a good alien / abduction story every once in a while, they do get my mind going.
Three things: A lot of things fly. Birds, planes, superman, helicopters, etc. Therefore, people who are better able to identify birds and spacecraft see fewer UFOs because they can identify more...
Three things:
A lot of things fly. Birds, planes, superman, helicopters, etc. Therefore, people who are better able to identify birds and spacecraft see fewer UFOs because they can identify more FOs.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I have not seen extraordinary evidence of aliens flying crafts. Not to say it can't happen. I just can't say it's objectively true.
Points 1 and 2 interact via the Dunning Kruger effect. People who are more ignorant about types of flying objects are more likely to have confident conclusions about their incorrect presumptions.
UFOs definitely exist as long as there's people who look up and say I dunno what that is. I've personally looked up many times and said to myself "is that a satellite or a shooting star?" So I know UFOs exist.
I don't necessarily believe in alien craft sightings, but I have definitely seen something in the sky before that I was totally unable to identify, and nothing I have thought of as an explanation...
I don't necessarily believe in alien craft sightings, but I have definitely seen something in the sky before that I was totally unable to identify, and nothing I have thought of as an explanation since adds up to what I saw.
On another note, I think it's incredibly naive to assume that there isn't life somewhere in the universe. But what frightens me more than finding another civilization, is finding the remains of a civilization. One that lived hundreds or even thousands of years ago, but for whatever reason died out and is no more. For some reason that gives me more chills.
I'm not sure I follow your reasons as a former atheist? Why would a random event not be reproducible? If it was possible enough to happen once surely it's possible enough to happen again no? If...
I'm not sure I follow your reasons as a former atheist? Why would a random event not be reproducible? If it was possible enough to happen once surely it's possible enough to happen again no?
If it's possible there is other life, it's worth looking for (imo).
Sure, I'm not saying that because it could happen means it has happened -- I just don't feel like its fair to say the opposite either. It happened once, it may have happened again (or may not)....
Sure, I'm not saying that because it could happen means it has happened -- I just don't feel like its fair to say the opposite either. It happened once, it may have happened again (or may not). Since I can't prove that it hasn't happened, I have to assume that its possible.
Since I believe it is possible, I would like to followup on information that could shed more light on the situation (not things like UFO sightings, I don't believe there is a crazy government conspiracy to cover it up, I don't have confidence that our world government is even capable of that). For me at least, to take the stance of: I can't prove it, therefore best to assume it hasn't happened and/or too pointless to look into -- just doesn't feel right. If we are going to find out, we need to try.
Not trying to convince you, just sharing my thoughts on the matter.
I have a hard time believing we're alone given how massive the universe is, but by the same token I have a hard time believing anyone else has reached Earth. The latest David Grusch claims are...
I have a hard time believing we're alone given how massive the universe is, but by the same token I have a hard time believing anyone else has reached Earth. The latest David Grusch claims are interesting, but I don't really know enough to vet his background or anything he says.
If it were confirmed... I expect there would be a media storm for a few weeks or months but in the end most people would just continue living their lives, really. What are most people to do about it?
1 Of course not. Which doesn't necessarily mean that UFOs are alien controlled, nor that we were ever visited by them. 2 On Bob Lazar: I can't really say anything on the truthfulness of his...
1
Of course not. Which doesn't necessarily mean that UFOs are alien controlled, nor that we were ever visited by them.
2
On Bob Lazar: I can't really say anything on the truthfulness of his statements, but he is extremely coherent, consistent, and gives a strong impression of sincerity. His speech and body language convey credibility to me. He's either the best liar I've ever seen, the most logical and compelling schizophrenic in the world, or is simply telling the truth. All three possibilities are amazing, incredible, and possible to me. But the first two are obviously the most likely.
3
Unlikely. Doesn't sound like a very practical, efficient, or even required operation.
4
Unless we're talking about some Lovecraftian horror, humans have a remarkable ability to quickly naturalize what was previously unthinkable. After the initial shock, we will quickly revert to our usual patterns, by attempting to resist, submit, and, if that proves impossible, cooperate and obey.
5
The 1994 Michigan UFO event, which was featured on Netflix's Unsolved Mysteries, is incredibly compelling.
I think there is other life in the universe and some of it is intelligent. I doubt if beings from other planets have visited Earth because the distances between stars is too vast. Maybe if the...
I think there is other life in the universe and some of it is intelligent. I doubt if beings from other planets have visited Earth because the distances between stars is too vast. Maybe if the beings are semi-immortal or machines they could last long enough to make the journey. I think faster than light travel is unlikely just because any spaceship would need to carry too much mass to get the required energy.
I think that if we encounter other life, we might not recognize it and may not be able to communicate with it. It's likely to be completely inscrutable to us. It almost certainly won't be like aliens in science fiction, which are usually just like humans but they have pointy ears or bumpy foreheads. Even the aliens in fiction which are quite different from us (like the gray alien trope) is very unlikely, why would they be bipeds with eyes in the same place as ours etc. Unless those are projections or machines I guess.
But I think UFOs are real objects and may be related to some kind of intelligence. Rather than coming from outer space, it may have evolved independently of us on Earth but been mostly hidden for some reason that we don't know yet. We only perceive a small percentage of the "real" world, who know if there are other dimensions or something else we haven't thought of that could explain UFO sightings?
People are very influenced by modern science fiction. Even a show that is relatively realistic, like Star Trek, has a lot of things that are essentially fantasy. These things influence the perception of unknown phenomenon and may make people project an interpretation on something that is currently completely unexplainable.
If there is life anywhere aside from Earth - and to me, that's a massive "if" - I'd be shocked if it's multi-cellular. I think life as we know it is a freak accident and exists nowhere else. Why...
If there is life anywhere aside from Earth - and to me, that's a massive "if" - I'd be shocked if it's multi-cellular. I think life as we know it is a freak accident and exists nowhere else. Why would it?
I firmly believe we are alone in the universe. There will almost certainly be life on other planets, but it will likely amount to nothing more then algae analogues. Us evolving intelligence was...
I firmly believe we are alone in the universe. There will almost certainly be life on other planets, but it will likely amount to nothing more then algae analogues. Us evolving intelligence was incredibly lucky, and given the apparent rarity of habitable planets it is likely we are completely alone. Most planets that can harbour intelligence will be swallowed by their star before intelligent life can evolve.
The fact that we are just 1 planet within a universe that has at least 700 QUINTILLION other planets tells me that we are most certainly not the only form of intelligent life out there. It's...
The fact that we are just 1 planet within a universe that has at least 700 QUINTILLION other planets tells me that we are most certainly not the only form of intelligent life out there. It's nearly impossible to even fathom how big 700 quintillion actually is. There is almost no chance that intelligent life formed on only 1 of those hundreds of quintillions of planets but nowhere else.
I believe that intelligent life definitely exists somewhere else in the universe, but most likely it is so far away that they have no chance of contacting us and we have no chance of contacting them. Unless we develop some type of Star Trek warp drive, we will never be able to explore more than .00000001% of the universe.
I have a friend who won't stop sending me crazy stuff about aliens since last week. I have tried to explain to him that there is no legitimate evidence - that he is reading a bunch of hogwash, but...
I have a friend who won't stop sending me crazy stuff about aliens since last week. I have tried to explain to him that there is no legitimate evidence - that he is reading a bunch of hogwash, but he won't listen. It's almost like talking to a flat-earth believer. I don't understand why some people are willing to believe crazy conspiracy theories without a single shred of evidence, it's very frustrating.
No, I don't think we're the only living organisms in the entire universe. I think they're manipulative of our human desire to feel like we matter in the grand clockwork of the universe. We are...
No, I don't think we're the only living organisms in the entire universe.
I think they're manipulative of our human desire to feel like we matter in the grand clockwork of the universe. We are dust at the whim of solar winds. All that truly matters is our personal happiness.
I think in times of great political stress, "news" comes out in order to irritate the minds of those who are vulnerable, simply to irritate and distract. I believe certain people think it's really funny to manipulate those who seriously bank on the idea of aliens. I also believe there is a concerted campaign from foreign entities to sow distrust in our governments and authority figures, and twisting the knife of paranoia and false hope in aliens is one such way to do it. If that tricks one person into not voting a certain way, or to pick up a weapon and demand answers that aren't there, well, mission accomplished I suppose.
I think we'll form religions around worshipping the star gods, but they themselves will never actually come down and demand anything of us. There will be people who might claim they know what they want, like Bob Lazar and those kinds of dudes, and some will believe them and act on it. Think like Scientology or that Waco dude.
If Trump was president then how come we haven't heard about aliens? Surely he'd tell the truth.
All of this oscillation business goes right back to Tesla, and the claim that he could transmit phenomenal amounts of energy just by crossing a pair of electromagnetic waves at the point in the distance where he wanted that energy to appear. Using Wardenclyffe Tower to cause the Tunguska blast, basically. Follow that back to the conspiracy theories around Maxwell's equations and the story goes that we're using an abbreviated version in our day to day lives, and some of his most interesting equations got 'lost' and redacted along the way. Starts at about 11 minutes in. If anyone here works with electromagnetics on the daily, you might enjoy debunking this for us. The word salad is hypnotic.
It's just a story. Any physics that Tesla and Maxwell could get their hands on is pretty trivial in our labs (and garages) today. If it were that easy to fuck up the universe and bend spacetime to our will, we'd have long since figured it out. Someone, somewhere, would have tripped over the same things again, and it would have only gotten easier over time. It didn't happen. We would also require staggering amounts of energy for this manipulation if it were even possible, so there has to be a free-energy system in there somewhere to power it. Wormholes are a lot less sexy if every time you open one, a star winks out of existence to power it, and that's the kind of energy we're talking about here.
It's the J-Bomb from The Genesis Machine in a nutshell. Good scifi novel and in your situation you may find it pretty amusing reading.
For what it's worth, Tesla was an inventor, not really a scientist (he for example didn't believe in electrons themselves, even though it was already the generally accepted theory at the time), and was an all-around.. less than stable person. He invented some great things for sure, but we should separate the "man from the myth", because the latter has grown to some insane levels.
I’m very curious: what is your opinion of Terry Lovelace’s story? I found him fairly credible and his story to be compelling. But I am a “I want to believe” type person so I’m curious what others think.
For any who aren’t familiar:
short article
longer article
interview on Astonishing Legends with lots of detail
Also, would you be willing to share more detail about your thoughts on Bob Lazar? His was the first UFO story that ever made me think any of them could be true. I know about some of the issues and questions around the veracity of his claims and his credibility in general, but I’m curious what your thoughts are.
If I could provide you an Exemplary mark, I would! Thanks for this post.
What do you mean by this?
I tend to fall into the camp that believes the modern alien phenomena are among a family of experiences including historically mythical phenomena such as fairies, gnomes, leprechauns, events of "mass hysteria", etc... I think there is a connection between the hidden depths of the human psyche and the outward experience of these phenomena.
I also believe the universe is too big for there to be no other sentient life, though the distances involved are so vastly large, it's hard to understand how beings could jaunt around in meatspace as if they were heading down to the local pharmacy.
I think proof is elusive because this phenomena is not completely objective even though it may be experienced as such.
I doubt it's a psyop, but I think there are those who are using the public's belief as a lever.
Have you heard of Jaques Vallee? He believes that aliens are more like to be inter dimensional than extra terrestrial and that all anomalous phenomenon stems from the same source. He goes through the history of these kinds of encounters in his book and finds connections between fairy encounters and modern alien encounters.
Yes, Passport to Magonia is great. I believe the scientist in Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind was based on Vallee. His views influenced my current thoughts on the phenomenon, for sure
Love Vallee, I also love John Keel even though he is a bit more “out there”. I’m glad to see these names out here as opposed to the standard extraterrestrial hypothesis
I think that the territory of the mind and that of the weird are much more interesting and compelling than the nuts and bolts theories.
Very compelling absolutely, I keep coming back to this quote from Anne Strieber “Whitley, what we think of as alien contact has something to do with what we call death”.
This area is often unexplored in contemporary UFOlogy, but there is a vast amount of information regarding strikingly similar phenomenon in the past. As Vallee would aptly describe the “control system hypothesis” the phenomenon adjusts to the prevailing ontology of the time and culture.
I can go on and on about this stuff, can’t talk to my loved ones or friends about it as they think I’m crazy, but I view it as similar to interests in religiosity or philosophy.
Glad to hear from others who share these thoughts. Though they are more common than they once were, the traditional "nuts and bolts" theories still reign. Given your comments and username, I'd like to recommend a podcast that covers these kinds of ideas and more. Weird Studies approaches unconventional and weird topics through a lens that combines the philosophical, occult, humanistic, and pop cultural beats not commonly seen in the same room. And they leave a lot of the sideshow elements of modern podcasts at the door, which is nice (looking at you LPOtL...),
I’m sort of confused the control system hypothesis. My readings of Vallee have always felt like trying to grasp jello. Can you explain it to me?
I wrote out some things but, you’re right it is a difficult concept. I am thinking I will make a post about it, maybe in ~books regarding the book Passport to Magonia.
I’m basically in this camp. I don’t think there are ETs flying around out there, and I think the videos/pictures we have, where they aren’t deliberate hoaxes, almost always have other explanations. I think these Navy/Pentagon photos that have drummed up interest in recent years are probably just some government tech (not necessarily US govt).
That being said, I think people genuinely have powerful experiences that they cannot explain. Not everyone who says they’ve seen or been abducted by a UFO is just making shit up — I think they genuinely believe it. And these are normal, everyday people who are often in respectable positions who end up ‘giving it all up’ by going public. If you think you’ve had an encounter, it is almost always easier to just stay quiet about it. Telling others leads to ridicule and derision and, contrary to what some may think, I don’t think it often is very profitable. So these people must really believe and have been affected by it to feel the need to go public.
I agree that older objects of folklore like gnomes and elves (or similar beings which exist across cultures) are manifestations of the same phenomena in the human brain. I don’t know if it’s the brain short circuiting or what, but something can happen to people to convince them they’ve seen something unexplainable, and it’s been happening for a long time.
I’ve always found the topic interesting because the way that these experiences get expressed and transmitted (whether it be as elves, aliens, etc) tells us a lot about how people relate to the world I think. In any case it’s fun to think about.
I'll throw my two cents in.
A) There's no alien life on Earth. Never was. Likely never will be.
B) There's almost certainly other life in the universe. I don't recall the math behind it, but the shear size and time span of the universe makes it almost certain.
C) It's incredibly unlikely that the other life will make its way to us or even communicate in any way that we would notice.
All the stories from "credible" sources are just plain old examples of: the human mind's desire to explain everything in terms it knows and everything else goes into a bucket of aliens or god.
I think the most egregious examples are most likely people who want to believe aliens are here and twist the facts to fit that narrative, explaining away most of the arguments against it. Even the stories that supposedly have sensor facts behind them are likely just unexplained phenomena that we don't understand or can't explain. Very unlikely to be aliens though. There's still much that we don't know about physics, life, and our own planet.
These are mostly my thoughts as well. The extreme amount of energy and effort required to travel space is insane.
The idea that a species-
Is just insanely hard to believe. Especially with so much hobby and commercial observation going on.
Every supposed instance is explained by much more common phenomena(or more often extremely routine glitches or misinterpretations).
Further SETI is a thing. Theres an entire field of scientists looking for this information who would be jumping up and down screaming if there was even the slightest shred of credible evidence.
There’s just too many coincidences that have happen to make the supposed evidence correct. IF life in the universe ever frequents our system it will likely be EXTREMELY obvious. Oh my god particles obvious
Probably thinking of the Drake equation
The "Criticisms" part of it pretty succinctly expressed how I felt about the point that OP was making.
"No statistical estimates are possible for some of the parameters, where only one example is known."
You can't say that other life in the universe is "almost certain" when your sample size is 1.
I want there to be other life in the universe, but I can't make a claim on whether there is or not.
The data that we've gathered about extra terrestrial life (all the habitable planets we've looked at, all the potential solar systems, and all the galaxies in the observable universe) isn't telling us the odds of life in other planets, but it's instead highlighting how rare we are to exist at all.
I believe alien life has existed, exists or will exist, but I don't believe they have visited our neck of the woods in our history.
I think that if governments knew aliens have visited Earth we would not be spending nearly as much money on waging land wars with each other and rather we'd been pooling all our resources into establishing a presence in space. We'd be much more focused on setting up factories on the moon and working on harvesting resources from asteroids in order to set up defenses and outposts. Even if they were trying to keep the existence of aliens quiet from the public they'd have come up with some excuse to do so.
I definitely don't think we're alone, and don't mind letting myself fall into some of the evidence like the footage the US military has confirmed real.
I also enjoy reading leaks and whistleblowers but more like a sci-fi than actual news, like a mental exercise in what types of things could be true. I really enjoyed reading through the recent 4chan "whistleblower", the same way I would an episode of X-Files or Star Trek.
Does the government know a lot more than they're telling us? Maybe, and maybe we'll find out, maybe it'll even be in my lifetime, I'll keep up my hopes but I'm definitely not going to hold my breath.
Alien life almost certainly exists somewhere. The universe is disgustingly huge, and I'm sure life has popped up an uncounted number of times. I also think we'll never meet it, for the same reason; the stupid size of the universe, and how slow the speed of light (aka, the speed of causality) is. As far as we've been able to tell for centuries, that really is a hard limit in anything. Nothing, absolutely nothing, can travel faster than the speed of light. And without that, we live in a very tiny bubble.
People have been reporting UFOs for a long time. They've also been reporting Bigfoot, ghosts, the Loch Ness monster and the chupacabra. They're not lying, that's just how people are. Our brains fill in the gaps when we encounter unexplained phenomena.
I think it’s almost inevitable that life has arisen many, many times and will continue to do so. Suitable conditions might be uncommon, but given the size of the universe, there are literally billions of planets in conditions broadly similar to ours. Self-replicating chemicals develop with some probability, again highly likely given enough time and enough candidate planets or moons with the right base chemistry. This is right on the verge of simple life, and once a system involves self-replication, natural selection can take over to generate more stable self sustaining life of some sort.
However, there is nothing in this process that drives life toward sentience, much less the kinds of technological capabilities we have. Most of the history of life on earth has been simple and unicellular. Most of the life on earth right now is simple and unicellular. Our strange species arose by chance and is a rounding error on a rounding error on a rounding error.
It doesn’t seem impossible to me that there are other intelligent or technologically capable species in the universe, but I think the jump from “life” to “space-faring species” is much more unlikely than people tend to give it credit. And even if it has / will happen on some proportion of planets with life, the probability that it happens concurrently with earth is another vanishingly small probability.
We’ve had technology capable of producing radio waves since 1888. That’s 135yrs / 200,000 yrs of our species = 0.07% when we’ve been able to transmit information to space. Life on earth has been around for about 4,000,000,000 years. That’s 0.000003% of the time. Life on other planets almost certainly will not be technologically capable.
I believe in life outside of Earth. I have skepticism (but not outright denial) of life that has visited Earth. Numbers back up the first, evidence betrays the second.
I'm agnostic about aliens, pretty much like I'm agnostic about a god.
There very well may be, but all rationality since the beginning of that rationality very clearly demonstrates that we lack sufficient evidence to say yes, life (or god) - intelligent or otherwise - exists. Until such evidence exists, I'm spending my very limited time in this mortal frame in more productive pursuits. For example, I'm making lasagna for dinner...
Beyond the X-Files and other pop culture that celebrates the extraterrestrial, I just... don't care. Not in a negative sense, but that it doesn't matter. If there's some advanced species out there that can vaporize our planet or subjugate us without a second thought, nothing I can say, do, or think is going to affect that, so I don't want to waste my time stressing about it.
And if they're of similar technology, or we learn to communicate? Cool, people a lot smarter than me will handle that. It genuinely feels like getting caught up in it beyond science fiction is just a form of unnecessary escapism. I'm not talking about people that go to, like, UFOCon and get a funny flying saucer hat and a backpack shaped like a little green man for fun. I mean the people who genuinely believe that the government is hiding something.
If every world government is hiding information and nothing is getting out, given the state of, well, everything... that uh, seems fine, I guess? I assume they'd have a good reason. Even if they don't, I'm some dude typing a message from his computer. I can complain online, rally a protest group for... some reason, or I can just not worry about it. If people really need to focus outwardly on some major cover up in the world, why not the Panama Papers leak? The Jeffrey Epstein clusterfuck? The Uyghur genocide? The US's unending war machine that spent the better part of 2 decades marching people into a life of PTSD in the Middle East while collecting war crimes like Pokemon cards?
Obviously the answer is because that's not fantastical enough, but like... those things matter, too. And there's no debating reality, and it's something that - even if a singular person can't enact change on it - is worth talking about. Aliens, UFOs, the extraterrestrial, it's fun to think about but until it matters, it doesn't.
excuse me for being quite curt but most of that is just conspiracy theory rubbish to me… especially the “mass psyop” thing. and the people you’ve talked about with “claims” are just irrelevant grifters that i hope to not hear about ever.
it’s really unlikely but i would hate to see tildes be overtaken by conspiracionist types. but that’s very unlikely.
I could see a place for a group like ~conspiracy or ~paranormal or ~unexplained for discussions like these. They're not really of interest to me either but it would be trivial to unsubscribe from it and avoid those threads altogether. (Of course, you can also filter out the “aliens” and “conspiracy theories” tags right now for roughly the same effect.)
I think allowing the conversations to happen, but curating your own exposure to them, is a reasonable solution to the “Tildes being overtaken” concern you mention.
well in reddit they’d stay contained to their little subreddit box that i would be able to stay away from very easily, but in tildes there is a certain cross-pollination, so i’m not sure groups like that would be well-advised…
I agree it is rubbish but I also don’t think OP was really expressing that as a belief, just claiming that other people say that. Which they do! And that can be worth discussing.
And based on the vast majority of answers in this thread I think there’s little risk of Tildes being over run by conspiracy theorists. And if it seem to be trending that way I would hope (and think) the community would address it.
yeah true, i honestly feel bad for making this comment now, it was probably too antagonistic… which i know i unfortunately can be sometimes
yeah, of course :)
Are we alone? Obviously not. The math does not support that conclusion and never has - life is not unique to this planet. As for any other life out there making it to the level of intelligence to communicate with us, and it happening in a place where we have overlapping light cones, that's a different question. It's likely that our nearest cosmic neighbors are too far away in space and in time to interact with us, four galaxies away somewhere. There is zero proof of extra dimensions, and yes, that means string theory is just as much BS as aliens. Sorry.
I'm a fan of the idea that intelligence is once-in-a-galaxy rare and not necessarily an inevitability when life evolves. I also believe that most races aren't all that keen on colonizing their entire galaxy - once you can be a god in a virtual universe, there's a lot less reason to explore the physical one. I bet most of them never leave home. We're the crazy ones who just have to see what's over the next
hillsolar system. That's not necessarily a universal sentiment.I think intelligence assets and scammers have corrupted the discussion space to the point where it's impossibly unproductive. I do think I've seen enough pilots and engineers come forward to lend credibility to the idea that something is in fact out there, though. That many intelligent people with multiple degrees and decades of experience in difficult jobs that require brains and level headedness did not suddenly all have strokes or contract mass hysteria - the math does not support that conclusion either.
If the US does in fact have crashed craft, great, we just won the cosmic lottery and got a leg up on this 4X game that borders on a cheat code. Share it with the world immediately. The dead heads in the military aren't mentally equipped to figure out how that stuff works and they never will be - secrecy defeats innovation and discovery every time, and then when you pile classic military catch-22 on top you go backwards. Next we'll find out that the missing planet 9 is actually a primordial black hole we can study in our own solar system for maximum cheese.
There will be no mass hysteria. People will geek out for a little while, then go back to work and xbox. It does not affect their day to day lives, there will be no panic or craziness outside of a few loons on a vindication high. It will actually change very little other than the direction of a couple long running debates. If Elerium-113 actually does exist, good, it can teach us how to stabilize heavy elements and control radioactive decay. Let's get on that right away and get our free energy machines up and running. We're going to need them.
If this is indeed a secret that has been kept since the 50s, I am more interested in reading someone's bio/book on how that was achieved than I am in looking at pictures of the alien craft they've got locked up somewhere. That would make for the most epic spy biopic of all time. Secrets are not easy to keep for this long - someone has found a social hack and I want to know how that's done.
Re:3 - The USA has a vested interest in making adversaries, like China and Russia, think we've got tech that's 1000 years ahead of them. If they are scared of that, then they aren't likely to pick a fight with us because they expect to get annihilated.
As for which of the various crazy rabbit holes was the most interesting to me, I have to hand it to Billy Carson and Graham Hancock.
Billy's theory is so crazy awesome it should be a series of novels - worship genes and telomere caps is just the start. Graham's apocalyptic attack on archaeology has been a hoot too. It's worth watching his netflix special Ancient Apocalypse if and only if you also watch a real archaeologist utterly obliterate it for the bullshit propaganda it is.
That's exactly how I feel at the end of the whole discussion. Very anticlimactic.
I'd give them an Atlantis parked on the mid-atlantic ridge right where Plato put it, while that was above sea level, and a comet putting it at the bottom of the ocean within a week by vaporizing ice caps and shifting the weight at the poles. I can see that happening, and Randall's got some pretty decent (but not ironclad) evidence for this. I'd even give Graham a few Atlantean survivors taking what's left of their ships and heading out around the world to start over. That's it, though. This was not a globe spanning civilization and they were likely not much more advanced than the Romans at best. They didn't invent stacking rocks, they weren't giants, and they did not have magical healing bags full of high tech toys better than ours. We'll find out once Jim Cameron figures out how to dig up the bottom of the ocean bed there. It's just two miles of water, no big deal. :P
I'm trying to imagine what it looks like when your entire continent just... sinks. That had to be insane.
The chances of life existing anywhere is tiny, but the universe is so vast that there's likely life out there somewhere. The chance of intelligent life is miniscule. And the chances that aliens are smart enough to invent interestellar travel while also dumb enough to crash on Earth are non-existent. Besides the statistics, we have some of the most powerful photographic and videographic devices in the history of humanity just sitting in our pockets, carried by a huge number of people across the entire planet, and yet there are no credible sightings of aliens with reputable evidence. The facts speak for themselves.
Not only crashing on earth but always in America. That’s the biggest tell for me that its not aliens! I’m sure there are some American conspiracy theorists who believe America to be so powerful that aliens would of course be only looking at them, but really…
That really is the best tell that all of this is some kind of bullshit or another. Forget nanotech. If you have femtotech and attotech, you literally are magic, and immortal, and capable of running your mental process so fast that reality is frozen for you while you patiently think about things. Nukes are about as threatening to you as a blade of grass. If you can cross interstellar distances, by definition that means there are certain problems you do not have anymore.
I'm more of a Fermi/Drake person. It's probable that other life exists, but it's incredibly difficult to overcome the Great Filter. The combination of all of these equates to it's likely humanity will never know if other life exists in the universe without crossing the Great Filter threshold itself, which is seemingly eons away.
For all of these situations and encounters, it's far more likely (statistically) that people are fallible. While they may genuinely believe they've interacted with life beyond our own world, it's significantly more probable they are just mistaken and that their grab bags of circumstantial evidence are an attempt to justify a faulty memory.
Life is probably out there. We're not special. It's just probably not so ubiquitous and advanced that it's demurely tiptoeing around earth.
On the other hand, it does feel a bit like we're staring down the great filter these days. ;)
Anyway, I generally agree with what you've said except I err on the side of life being fairly ubiquitous. Complex life, not so much. But the numbers involved are so huge that I can't wrap my head around anything other than, yes, we're not alone in the universe.
I suspect the real issue, in terms of why haven't we found anyone yet, is just a matter of distance. My gut feeling is there's no readily available way to cross interstellar space in reasonable amounts of time.
Nobody has to demurely tiptoe around. They can stomp around all they want, but nobody will hear it for millions of years, and only if they happen to be facing the right way
When I was younger I was very skeptical about the subject. Right up until the day that I saw a huge neon green orb exhibiting bizarre, impossible flight patterns.
I believe that aliens, UAP, fairies, cryptids, anomalous phenomena in general all stem from inter dimensional forces/beings. You should checkout Jacques Valles books for a more detailed discussion of the matter.
I believe that humans also have more to us than our physical form, but that is an entirely different subject and dives more into the occult.
Passport to Magonia. All of his books are pretty good though.
I believe we are not alone in the universe. I believe there certainly exist some form of life somewhere else.
I also believe that this life from sonewhere else never came to the Earth or even anywhere near the Sun. So I believe that authorities are not hiding anything from us. Well, not about aliens I mean... They certainly hide lots of other things :-D
Agreed, I believe that if the US has UAPs or whatever hidden somewhere, they're likely prototype vehicles or drones of some kind by themselves or their enemies. I don't deny that UAPs are a thing, but I think they're very likely of human origin, if not explainable as natural phenomena of some kind. At least that's what makes sense to me, super sneaky aliens visiting us for centuries and no one has concrete proof sounds far fetched to say the least, although I won't deny that I do enjoy a good alien / abduction story every once in a while, they do get my mind going.
Three things:
A lot of things fly. Birds, planes, superman, helicopters, etc. Therefore, people who are better able to identify birds and spacecraft see fewer UFOs because they can identify more FOs.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I have not seen extraordinary evidence of aliens flying crafts. Not to say it can't happen. I just can't say it's objectively true.
Points 1 and 2 interact via the Dunning Kruger effect. People who are more ignorant about types of flying objects are more likely to have confident conclusions about their incorrect presumptions.
UFOs definitely exist as long as there's people who look up and say I dunno what that is. I've personally looked up many times and said to myself "is that a satellite or a shooting star?" So I know UFOs exist.
I don't know alien spacecraft exist.
Well said. There is definitely a LOT of dunning-kruger going on right now with this topic.
I don't necessarily believe in alien craft sightings, but I have definitely seen something in the sky before that I was totally unable to identify, and nothing I have thought of as an explanation since adds up to what I saw.
On another note, I think it's incredibly naive to assume that there isn't life somewhere in the universe. But what frightens me more than finding another civilization, is finding the remains of a civilization. One that lived hundreds or even thousands of years ago, but for whatever reason died out and is no more. For some reason that gives me more chills.
I'm not sure I follow your reasons as a former atheist? Why would a random event not be reproducible? If it was possible enough to happen once surely it's possible enough to happen again no?
If it's possible there is other life, it's worth looking for (imo).
Sure, I'm not saying that because it could happen means it has happened -- I just don't feel like its fair to say the opposite either. It happened once, it may have happened again (or may not). Since I can't prove that it hasn't happened, I have to assume that its possible.
Since I believe it is possible, I would like to followup on information that could shed more light on the situation (not things like UFO sightings, I don't believe there is a crazy government conspiracy to cover it up, I don't have confidence that our world government is even capable of that). For me at least, to take the stance of: I can't prove it, therefore best to assume it hasn't happened and/or too pointless to look into -- just doesn't feel right. If we are going to find out, we need to try.
Not trying to convince you, just sharing my thoughts on the matter.
I believe but I'm also a believer in the Dark Forest hypothesis too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_forest_hypothesis
I have a hard time believing we're alone given how massive the universe is, but by the same token I have a hard time believing anyone else has reached Earth. The latest David Grusch claims are interesting, but I don't really know enough to vet his background or anything he says.
If it were confirmed... I expect there would be a media storm for a few weeks or months but in the end most people would just continue living their lives, really. What are most people to do about it?
1
Of course not. Which doesn't necessarily mean that UFOs are alien controlled, nor that we were ever visited by them.
2
On Bob Lazar: I can't really say anything on the truthfulness of his statements, but he is extremely coherent, consistent, and gives a strong impression of sincerity. His speech and body language convey credibility to me. He's either the best liar I've ever seen, the most logical and compelling schizophrenic in the world, or is simply telling the truth. All three possibilities are amazing, incredible, and possible to me. But the first two are obviously the most likely.
3
Unlikely. Doesn't sound like a very practical, efficient, or even required operation.
4
Unless we're talking about some Lovecraftian horror, humans have a remarkable ability to quickly naturalize what was previously unthinkable. After the initial shock, we will quickly revert to our usual patterns, by attempting to resist, submit, and, if that proves impossible, cooperate and obey.
5
The 1994 Michigan UFO event, which was featured on Netflix's Unsolved Mysteries, is incredibly compelling.
I think there is other life in the universe and some of it is intelligent. I doubt if beings from other planets have visited Earth because the distances between stars is too vast. Maybe if the beings are semi-immortal or machines they could last long enough to make the journey. I think faster than light travel is unlikely just because any spaceship would need to carry too much mass to get the required energy.
I think that if we encounter other life, we might not recognize it and may not be able to communicate with it. It's likely to be completely inscrutable to us. It almost certainly won't be like aliens in science fiction, which are usually just like humans but they have pointy ears or bumpy foreheads. Even the aliens in fiction which are quite different from us (like the gray alien trope) is very unlikely, why would they be bipeds with eyes in the same place as ours etc. Unless those are projections or machines I guess.
But I think UFOs are real objects and may be related to some kind of intelligence. Rather than coming from outer space, it may have evolved independently of us on Earth but been mostly hidden for some reason that we don't know yet. We only perceive a small percentage of the "real" world, who know if there are other dimensions or something else we haven't thought of that could explain UFO sightings?
People are very influenced by modern science fiction. Even a show that is relatively realistic, like Star Trek, has a lot of things that are essentially fantasy. These things influence the perception of unknown phenomenon and may make people project an interpretation on something that is currently completely unexplainable.
If there is life anywhere aside from Earth - and to me, that's a massive "if" - I'd be shocked if it's multi-cellular. I think life as we know it is a freak accident and exists nowhere else. Why would it?
I firmly believe we are alone in the universe. There will almost certainly be life on other planets, but it will likely amount to nothing more then algae analogues. Us evolving intelligence was incredibly lucky, and given the apparent rarity of habitable planets it is likely we are completely alone. Most planets that can harbour intelligence will be swallowed by their star before intelligent life can evolve.
The fact that we are just 1 planet within a universe that has at least 700 QUINTILLION other planets tells me that we are most certainly not the only form of intelligent life out there. It's nearly impossible to even fathom how big 700 quintillion actually is. There is almost no chance that intelligent life formed on only 1 of those hundreds of quintillions of planets but nowhere else.
I believe that intelligent life definitely exists somewhere else in the universe, but most likely it is so far away that they have no chance of contacting us and we have no chance of contacting them. Unless we develop some type of Star Trek warp drive, we will never be able to explore more than .00000001% of the universe.
I have a friend who won't stop sending me crazy stuff about aliens since last week. I have tried to explain to him that there is no legitimate evidence - that he is reading a bunch of hogwash, but he won't listen. It's almost like talking to a flat-earth believer. I don't understand why some people are willing to believe crazy conspiracy theories without a single shred of evidence, it's very frustrating.
No signs of intelligent life on planet Earth.
But maybe outside of our solar system? Only time will tell.
I certainly doubt we are alone.
No, I don't think we're the only living organisms in the entire universe.
I think they're manipulative of our human desire to feel like we matter in the grand clockwork of the universe. We are dust at the whim of solar winds. All that truly matters is our personal happiness.
I think in times of great political stress, "news" comes out in order to irritate the minds of those who are vulnerable, simply to irritate and distract. I believe certain people think it's really funny to manipulate those who seriously bank on the idea of aliens. I also believe there is a concerted campaign from foreign entities to sow distrust in our governments and authority figures, and twisting the knife of paranoia and false hope in aliens is one such way to do it. If that tricks one person into not voting a certain way, or to pick up a weapon and demand answers that aren't there, well, mission accomplished I suppose.
I think we'll form religions around worshipping the star gods, but they themselves will never actually come down and demand anything of us. There will be people who might claim they know what they want, like Bob Lazar and those kinds of dudes, and some will believe them and act on it. Think like Scientology or that Waco dude.
If Trump was president then how come we haven't heard about aliens? Surely he'd tell the truth.