Clickbait. Its not like any of this devices will stop working. Upd: there will be option to continue recieve security updates if you pay for it.
The consultancy added that many of these 240 million devices will end up in landfill.
“If these were all folded laptops, stacked one on top of another, they would make a pile 600 km taller than the moon.”
Clickbait. Its not like any of this devices will stop working.
Upd: there will be option to continue recieve security updates if you pay for it.
Some may be deactivated due to security concerns. But not even those will necessarily go to the landfill. You can keep using the old Windows, or switch to Linux.
Some may be deactivated due to security concerns. But not even those will necessarily go to the landfill. You can keep using the old Windows, or switch to Linux.
I have Windows 10 on my desktop. It is a perfectly fine OS for me, and I have no intention of changing it. My processor is not supported by Windows 11 anyway. Hopefully I'll find a way to avoid...
I have Windows 10 on my desktop. It is a perfectly fine OS for me, and I have no intention of changing it. My processor is not supported by Windows 11 anyway. Hopefully I'll find a way to avoid the fee for continuous updates.
For me dealbreaker is that its impossible to move taskbar to the left. I understand that this is my personal preference, but its really important to me. Especially using wide screen.
For me dealbreaker is that its impossible to move taskbar to the left. I understand that this is my personal preference, but its really important to me. Especially using wide screen.
No, not icons. Taskbar to the left part of screen. Like this: https://www.groovypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/4-taskbar-left.jpg Last time I checked this was impossible.
Yeah, right-click taskbar, taskbar settings, taskbar behaviors, taskbar alignment: Left. Now if anybody knows how to make the activity notification on the taskbar be BRIGHT RED or something...
Now if anybody knows how to make the activity notification on the taskbar be BRIGHT RED or something instead of "subtle hue of pink I don't notice for an hour," that I'd love to hear.
Does that just align the contents of the taskbar to the bottom left corner, or actually move the whole bar to be vertical along the full height of the left side of the screen? The former is a nice...
Does that just align the contents of the taskbar to the bottom left corner, or actually move the whole bar to be vertical along the full height of the left side of the screen?
The former is a nice concession to people who don't care for the new center-bottom layout, the latter is a useful feature for widescreen displays, and my own preferred layout. At least at launch Win11 didn't allow for vertical taskbars at all, if that's changed then that's some good news.
Windows 11 default doesn't allow it but there's a tool that will return the taskbar to windows 10 behavior. I think its just called ExplorerPatcher on github.
Windows 11 default doesn't allow it but there's a tool that will return the taskbar to windows 10 behavior. I think its just called ExplorerPatcher on github.
It's bullshit that my threadripper can't run windows 11 without hacking windows 11. Perfectly good CPU. Fast enough and has plenty of compute power. So stupid.
It's bullshit that my threadripper can't run windows 11 without hacking windows 11. Perfectly good CPU. Fast enough and has plenty of compute power. So stupid.
First gen threadripper, 1950x. It's based off one of the earlier gen Zen architectures. Microsoft just straight up not supporting it. Without a hack windows 11 won't run on it. 16 cores, 32...
First gen threadripper, 1950x. It's based off one of the earlier gen Zen architectures. Microsoft just straight up not supporting it. Without a hack windows 11 won't run on it. 16 cores, 32 threads... Can't run an operating system. Wild.
I don't know why this article is making a big deal out of PC requirements like storage and memory. A fundamental issue is the lack of a TPM2.0 chip on older motherboards.
I don't know why this article is making a big deal out of PC requirements like storage and memory. A fundamental issue is the lack of a TPM2.0 chip on older motherboards.
I read this article with excitement, because I'm eyeballing old commercial tiny PC's for a Plex server and don't want to shell out the $75 for it. If I could just go scour the landfill, I'd be...
I read this article with excitement, because I'm eyeballing old commercial tiny PC's for a Plex server and don't want to shell out the $75 for it. If I could just go scour the landfill, I'd be happy. Maybe I'll come across a pallet of old MTG cards...
What computers released in the last, Idk 10yrs, maybe almost 15yrs don't have these requirements? I don't think I've seen a computer without at least the Windows 11 base requirements in a long...
Minimum system requirements for installing Windows 11 on a PC mean users must have a processor of at least 1 GHz or faster along with a minimum of 4GB RAM. Storage requirements are also set to a minimum of 64GB.
What computers released in the last, Idk 10yrs, maybe almost 15yrs don't have these requirements? I don't think I've seen a computer without at least the Windows 11 base requirements in a long time. Even when Netbooks were all the rage, they usually had those Intel Atom chips that were at least 1Ghz. With storage, HDDs in pre-builts are usually 500GB minimum and have been for several years. With SSDs, 256GB minimum. I don't think I've seen anything less than 128GB in a long time, either. And RAM seems to have standardized around 8GB minimum. I see many PCs being sold with 16GB these days as part of the base build.
Certainly, my perspective is from the developed world, particularly the US. But are there lots of computers in less well-off areas that are still running PCs that don't hit those Windows 11 requirements?
Obviously a lot of this supposed eWaste will come from enterprise environments. Even my small office rotates all computers out every 3-5yrs (which is probably a bigger issue in terms of eWaste generation). But I can't imagine there are many enterprises that are still running such weak computers that won't be able to make the jump to Windows 11. TPM issues, as someone else mentioned, notwithstanding.
It's not the specs themselves that prohibit an upgrade, it's the actual components. Windows 11 has a very restrictive list of CPUs it'll work with. You need to have an 8th-gen and newer Intel or...
It's not the specs themselves that prohibit an upgrade, it's the actual components. Windows 11 has a very restrictive list of CPUs it'll work with. You need to have an 8th-gen and newer Intel or Ryzen 2000-series or newer.
I have more than hit the minimum required specs (16 GB RAM and 3.5 GHz CPU) but because my CPU is a first gen ryzen it's just unsupported. I don't care for upgrading my PC right now since it works fine so I'm stuck with Windows 10.
This is where I am too, my computer is more than capable of running windows 11 but because of an "older" cpu I can't. For me though it's whatever because it's mostly just a gaming rig anyway.
This is where I am too, my computer is more than capable of running windows 11 but because of an "older" cpu I can't. For me though it's whatever because it's mostly just a gaming rig anyway.
The performance requirements are a red herring. They aren't the problem. The issue is Windows 11's requirement for TPM 2.0, which limits it to CPUs no older than ~2017. This requirement can be...
The performance requirements are a red herring. They aren't the problem. The issue is Windows 11's requirement for TPM 2.0, which limits it to CPUs no older than ~2017.
This requirement can be worked around, though I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a specific need to use Windows 11.
There were a bunch of nettops released around 2012-2015 that had terrible specs running windows 8. EG Asus X205ta. They were painful to use at the time, they'd be terrible to use today. They're...
What computers released in the last, Idk 10yrs,
There were a bunch of nettops released around 2012-2015 that had terrible specs running windows 8. EG Asus X205ta. They were painful to use at the time, they'd be terrible to use today. They're difficult to get linux running on them - here's a 220 page thread on the Ubuntu forums. I have no idea what Microsoft were thinking with "WIMBoot" because it was so obviously broken. Having said all this, why are they so bad? There's a bunch of stuff that people do with computers (a bit of email, a bit of social media, watching video, a bit of word processing) and none of these require big specs.
Even my small office rotates all computers out every 3-5yrs
Dell Latitude 7490 was released in 2018, so 5 years ago. It shipped with TPM 1.2 The Windows Update and PC Healthcheck says "NOT COMPATIBLE WITH WINDOWS 11". But Dell do have a driver update to get to TPM 2.0 Lots of people are not going to see that, so these very capable machines are going to end up running older insecure windows, or switched to linux/BSD, or end up as e-waste.
I think I'm clumsily trying to talk about "friction". We want it to be very easy to keep using old machines for as long as possible, and then when they're at end of life we want it to be very easy to recycle them. At the moment we've got huge software churn and it feels like you get minimal benefit but it's requiring changes to hardware. It seems nuts to me that three years is seen as "long term support" for an OS.
I have a dell laptop from my work. They have a preinstalled app that installs driver updates, including to bios updates. Assuming dell sent the tpm 2.0 update through that app, every user will...
I have a dell laptop from my work. They have a preinstalled app that installs driver updates, including to bios updates. Assuming dell sent the tpm 2.0 update through that app, every user will have that update. The handful of users that are knowledgeable enough to disable dell’s app or reinstall windows will also know enough to look for a driver update to get tpm 2.0.
As @JCPheonix says, lots of Dell machines are sold by large companies to second user resellers. Those small companies will wipe the machines, reinstall windows, and sell them on. They're making...
As @JCPheonix says, lots of Dell machines are sold by large companies to second user resellers. Those small companies will wipe the machines, reinstall windows, and sell them on. They're making small margins on volume, so they don't take the time to upgrade drivers or install the utilities.
I'm sort of joking here, but also, it's mildly infuriating.
When I check Windows Update it tells me my system does not have the minimum requirements to run Windows 11. It tells me to use PC HealthCheck and then sends me to a website for more information. That website tells me how to download and run PCHealthCheck.
When I run PCHealthCheck it says "TPM2 must be supported and enabled on this PC" with a link to "more about enabling TPM 2.0". I click that link. I get taken to an error page https://aka.ms/PCHCLearnMoreTPM
I mean, come on, this is something MS wants me to get and they're making me jump through these hoops? We have SV tech companies A/B testing the colour of signup buttons to see which is more effective, and we have Microsoft saying "please upgrade to the new OS, but navigate this obstacle course first".
Zeldman's Three Click Rule is probably not good, but the dozens of clicks, across multiple websites, giving incomplete information, all so I can upgrade to an OS that does ... well, what does it do better than 10?
At this point, when 10 stops working I'll just move onto FreeBSD or Linux Mint. And here's the thing: FreeBSD was easier for me to install and get running than Windows 11 has been. That FreeBSD handbook? That's what documentation should be like.
I see a lot of people saying that people should "just use Linux" but I know that a lot of people are still hesitant. I just wanted to say a few things about that. Compared to a few years ago, you...
I see a lot of people saying that people should "just use Linux" but I know that a lot of people are still hesitant. I just wanted to say a few things about that. Compared to a few years ago, you can:
Install 95% of apps through the appstore
Expect most Windows single player games to work straight away. Multi-player games depend heavily on anti-cheat
Use web versions of most apps that could be deal-breakers (MS Office, Photoshop etc.)
If you have questions or reservations about using Linux I'd love to hear them because while lot's of people cannot switch, I think now is a great time to try it out for a lot of folks.
I admit that at this point I just do not get why people continue to use Windows. Arbitrary requirements, dumbification, telemetry, forced updates, mandatory online account, ads, nagging, reduced...
I admit that at this point I just do not get why people continue to use Windows. Arbitrary requirements, dumbification, telemetry, forced updates, mandatory online account, ads, nagging, reduced utility, reduced configuration options strewn at several places, a pretty solid start on a equivalent to safety net, just a general loss of control for the user and a change of attitude of the os from being a tool for the user to making a tool of the user. What what MS even have to do at this point for more users to consider moving away?
It is trivial to use Linux. If you actually need Windows it is trivial to use it alongside Linux. Even a technically illiterate person should have no problem doing it over the weekend. Windows will simply get worse, it will get worse more and faster the more are people unwilling to abandon it.
We live in an age where computing technology is everywhere and absolutely necessary to function in society. Deciding that computers are magic and being unwilling to do the absolutely bare minimum to understand the surface level of software is, and I stand by that, at the absolute very best shortsighted.
It's not necessarily trivial to install Linux, especially if you're not technical, but there are absolutely distros where it's pretty trivial to use Linux, especially if you're mostly using your...
It's not necessarily trivial to install Linux, especially if you're not technical, but there are absolutely distros where it's pretty trivial to use Linux, especially if you're mostly using your computer for web browsing. I could absolutely hand my mother my Linux desktop and as long as she recognized the firefox icon she'd be fine.
Of course, this group of users is probably the last group to switch on their own, which means not many of them currently use Linux. But I think it's worth distinguishing between getting Linux set up (which, even with the easiest installers, can still be daunting for a non-technical user) and using it day to day (which honestly is far less dissimilar to Windows for your average casual user than most people think).
I hate Microsoft's monopolistic practices but it's IMO not wise to dismiss it as "capitalist stink" or whatever. A productive answer would be: How can it be made easier to ship more computers with...
I hate Microsoft's monopolistic practices but it's IMO not wise to dismiss it as "capitalist stink" or whatever. A productive answer would be: How can it be made easier to ship more computers with Linux pre-installed or how do we make installing it from scratch easier than Windows. Especially answers like the latter could put a foot in the door. But according to Linux enthusiasts that either doesn't matter or "is already solved".
I mean... I have nothing but respect for Linux as a technical project, the idealism of the people who keep it running and the sheer depth and quality of its underlying functionality. But the UX...
I mean... I have nothing but respect for Linux as a technical project, the idealism of the people who keep it running and the sheer depth and quality of its underlying functionality. But the UX culture in "Linux" (yes, "Linux"-wide, not individual distros) is simply not where it needs to be. There is just too little respect for it. It's not just about writing code to make the pixels show up, this is design-in-the-classic-sense work, this is psychological work and instead of addressing the lack thereof, any discussion on it by people who actually care about Linux is delegated to some "distros" that supposedly long solved it and how details already kinda-sorta work great for their mom/coworker. That's not enough to make Linux a thing. Maybe that's okay, but we can't have it both ways. If it's not ok, the "Linux" approach to UX is not ok.
idk what to tell you. If I sat my mother in front of a vanilla Ubuntu install, the biggest confusion would be the location of the taskbar. Referring to a "Linux approach to UX" is just bizarre to...
idk what to tell you. If I sat my mother in front of a vanilla Ubuntu install, the biggest confusion would be the location of the taskbar.
Referring to a "Linux approach to UX" is just bizarre to me -- there isn't some mystical unified Linux-wide approach to UX. Additionally, when it comes to the casual use I'm talking about, 100% of the UX/UI elements that a normal casual user interacts with is a dependent on the desktop environment, which can vary even within the same distro (not sure why you insist on the scare quotes theres, unless you're just really anti-abbreviations for some reason). No one wants there to be one unified desktop environment experience across all of Linux. The cloeest thing you'd get is Gnome, since it's currently the most popular afaik, and it gets a lot of shade within the Linux community but that's in large part because of decisions that make it more familiar and user friendly to casual users coming from Windows or MacOS.
I don't think being not painful to use is enough to "make Linux a thing". I think that would require a ton of factors, many of which are either undesirable or pipe dreams. But I've never said Linux is going to "become a thing", just that the average casual user is not going to be any more impeded by using a Linux desktop than they would switching from Windows to MacOS (in fact, probably less so).
There is, and it's "don't be a dummy and learn these few simple commands and where that system menu is hidden, which is a slightly different spot than the last time you used Linux since this is a...
Referring to a "Linux approach to UX" is just bizarre to me -- there isn't some mystical unified Linux-wide approach to UX.
There is, and it's "don't be a dummy and learn these few simple commands and where that system menu is hidden, which is a slightly different spot than the last time you used Linux since this is a totally different distro but it's better, trust me, but make sure you don't activate this without making sure you're running the latest version of that, you find the version number through this simple command which wasn't in that initial list of simple commands I gave you but that's okay it's just a special case since that driver for your input device doesn't really work just use another one for the time being. And don't forget to type sudo first."
Ok, unplug your keybroad, pick a language that you don't even have a slightest clue it means. After that, try to install linux and daily drive it. That how the average users see linux, there a lot...
Ok, unplug your keybroad, pick a language that you don't even have a slightest clue it means. After that, try to install linux and daily drive it. That how the average users see linux, there a lot of don't know and don't know don't know that normal person have toward computer. Doubly so with both android and iOS hide anything that approach technical. You have to remember just by on this site you are way more knowledgeable about computer than need to live in the modern world for anyone whose job don't involve anything harder than prepare document and doing excel.
I get it but there are simple comprehensive tutorials than go over it. If anything installing beginner linux distro is easier than installing Windows though that is probably moot point since due...
I get it but there are simple comprehensive tutorials than go over it. If anything installing beginner linux distro is easier than installing Windows though that is probably moot point since due to its dominance it comes preinstalled.
I get that most people do not want to go into the technical details. I certainly do not understand even the complete sw stack even cursorily not even mentioning the hw. I simply think that that the over reliance on commercial entities due to lack of will to put aside temporary convenience leads to what we can see right now in the world.
I do not think even someone that exclusively used ios all their lives would be unable to install and use Linux and I think that refusal to even consider that option will inevitably lead to more barriers, more monetization, less convenience and other effects.
It’s not the OS install that’s the problem (although it can be tedious at times), it’s all the programs. I’ve found the file system and processes for installing programs isn’t that intuitive.
It’s not the OS install that’s the problem (although it can be tedious at times), it’s all the programs. I’ve found the file system and processes for installing programs isn’t that intuitive.
How long ago did you try to use Linux? The file system is more or less identical to that in Windows for a non-technical user (that is, you click on folders to find files you saved there and...
How long ago did you try to use Linux? The file system is more or less identical to that in Windows for a non-technical user (that is, you click on folders to find files you saved there and itherwise don't engage with it) and installing programs is no harder than clicking an installer.exe on Windows if you're using something like Ubuntu. If I download a .deb file from a website I literally just click it and it opens a pop-up asking me if I want to install it -- this is basically the same as on Windows. Most Linux users are more technical and use the command line but the more user-friendly distros make it really easy to use Linux without ever touching it.
I encourage you to try again: the file system is something you can get used to and installing programs is easier than on windows: I have maybe one app that hasn't been installed throught the...
I encourage you to try again: the file system is something you can get used to and installing programs is easier than on windows: I have maybe one app that hasn't been installed throught the standard app store.
Corporate users use windows because it gives them control of the machine and software. Look at software like Exchange and Outlook - these have a strangle hold on commercial email for good reason,...
I just do not get why people continue to use Windows.
Corporate users use windows because it gives them control of the machine and software.
Look at software like Exchange and Outlook - these have a strangle hold on commercial email for good reason, even though there are some objectively awful things about them.
MS Office is interesting. Most of the functionality exists elsewhere, but I think that some professions need the last 4% that MS Office provides. Lawyers need a particular template that's easier to do with Word, accountants need some spreadsheet thing that's easier to do with Excel, architects need etc etc. So these professions try the alternative and it almost completely works but doesn't quite cover their edge cases.
MS Teams objectively sucks. It's especially bad if you're a member of the public trying to dial into meetings held by people who are all part of a large organisation. It sort of sucks if you're people in different organisations trying to have a meeting together. DIfferent features (chat, reactions, hands-up) appear or disappear and the people running the meeting don't always know enough about how to get these working for guests, and guests don't know because they'd normally use Zoom. Blows my mind that after three years of pandemic and remote working we're still stuck with Teams and Zoom. But corporate use teams because they get control. It's possible to use Teams on Linux - you click the invite link, and launch classic teams in a browser such as Firefox. It's not a good experience, and if it doesn't work there's no-one who can help you.
I've yet to meet someone who has a good experience with Teams (and my wife works for Microsoft). My job sometimes switches our standups trom Zoom to Teams for a week or two in order to help...
It's not a good experience, and if it doesn't work there's no-one who can help you.
I've yet to meet someone who has a good experience with Teams (and my wife works for Microsoft). My job sometimes switches our standups trom Zoom to Teams for a week or two in order to help someone run tests and it always involves EXTENSIVE complaining.
Hi! I use teams at work and it works great for what I do every day. 2 meetings a week and lots of text chatting in a group DM mostly, with the occasional text/screenshare call from an individual.
Hi! I use teams at work and it works great for what I do every day. 2 meetings a week and lots of text chatting in a group DM mostly, with the occasional text/screenshare call from an individual.
I download a lot of pirated games, they don't always work on Linux, and managing Wine prefixes isn't fun even with Lutris or Bottles. But even legit copies have issues. Using Windows has all the...
I download a lot of pirated games, they don't always work on Linux, and managing Wine prefixes isn't fun even with Lutris or Bottles. But even legit copies have issues. Using Windows has all the advantages of not being an edge case. A lot more things are likely to work with little to no intervention of my own.
If they don't, the fixes always assume I'm running Windows. Not to mention mods, hacks, and tips in general. They all expect Windows, and I'm no programmer: I can follow instructions, but I'm not going to figure anything out by myself.
I know you can game on Linux, and I did that before. It is generally a good experience but it is just not the same. Steam Deck excluded, the praise for gaming on Linux is full of hyperbole.
Edit: also, lots of peripheral are not plug and play, even when they work you often have to settle for reduced functionality or control. This includes cameras, microphones, gamepads, keyboards, mouses, and many other hardware which are controlled via software made specifically for Windows.
Love Linux though. Still have Manjaro on my laptop.
As far as I know e the closest we have at the moment as open source alternative for photography is Darktable (https://www.darktable.org/). It might be worth a try, in the light of looking for a...
As far as I know e the closest we have at the moment as open source alternative for photography is Darktable (https://www.darktable.org/). It might be worth a try, in the light of looking for a long term alternative.
Headline: "Millions of Windows Laptops Originally Headed to Landfills Now Help Save Business, Bridge Digital Divide" "...By leveraging various open source Linux distributions and various open...
Headline: "Millions of Windows Laptops Originally Headed to Landfills Now Help Save Business, Bridge Digital Divide"
"...By leveraging various open source Linux distributions and various open source virtualization tools, millions of Windows laptops - originally expected to become ewaste - become fully repurposeable for consumers and all manner of small businesses. Not only has this grand repurposing helped avoid ewaste, but many consumers save money by avoiding to need to buy more unnecessary computers...Furthermore, operational costs are saved by millions of small and medium businesses by the mere practice of......"
<awakens from dream/sleeping> Whoa, what happened!?! Awww, man, that was only a dream about linux and helping with the digital divide! Dang it!
Clickbait. Its not like any of this devices will stop working.
Upd: there will be option to continue recieve security updates if you pay for it.
Some may be deactivated due to security concerns. But not even those will necessarily go to the landfill. You can keep using the old Windows, or switch to Linux.
I have Windows 10 on my desktop. It is a perfectly fine OS for me, and I have no intention of changing it. My processor is not supported by Windows 11 anyway. Hopefully I'll find a way to avoid the fee for continuous updates.
Enjoy Windows 11 with some regkey changes or your new install of X Linux distribution.
For me dealbreaker is that its impossible to move taskbar to the left. I understand that this is my personal preference, but its really important to me. Especially using wide screen.
You can move the task bar to the left. It takes 3 clicks.
No, not icons. Taskbar to the left part of screen. Like this: https://www.groovypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/4-taskbar-left.jpg
Last time I checked this was impossible.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. That makes sense.
With 11? Because I know you literally can't even resize the Taskbar at the bottom any more. Absolutely insane.
Yeah, right-click taskbar, taskbar settings, taskbar behaviors, taskbar alignment: Left.
Now if anybody knows how to make the activity notification on the taskbar be BRIGHT RED or something instead of "subtle hue of pink I don't notice for an hour," that I'd love to hear.
Does that just align the contents of the taskbar to the bottom left corner, or actually move the whole bar to be vertical along the full height of the left side of the screen?
The former is a nice concession to people who don't care for the new center-bottom layout, the latter is a useful feature for widescreen displays, and my own preferred layout. At least at launch Win11 didn't allow for vertical taskbars at all, if that's changed then that's some good news.
Windows 11 default doesn't allow it but there's a tool that will return the taskbar to windows 10 behavior. I think its just called ExplorerPatcher on github.
Oh, no, if it's vertical you want I haven't seen an option for that.
It's bullshit that my threadripper can't run windows 11 without hacking windows 11. Perfectly good CPU. Fast enough and has plenty of compute power. So stupid.
Is this serious? What's their reasoning?
First gen threadripper, 1950x. It's based off one of the earlier gen Zen architectures. Microsoft just straight up not supporting it. Without a hack windows 11 won't run on it. 16 cores, 32 threads... Can't run an operating system. Wild.
I don't know why this article is making a big deal out of PC requirements like storage and memory. A fundamental issue is the lack of a TPM2.0 chip on older motherboards.
What virtualization software are you using?
It looks like there is a software tpm module emulator you can use with virt-manager: https://www.smoothnet.org/qemu-tpm/
You can bypass that. I didn't do it because I'm satisfied with Windows 10.
The majority of people isn't going to know that, they'll just see their PC is incompatible and buy a new one.
Please parcel me a dozen, I will pay you the postal charges and also make good use of them!
I dream of having a cluster of 1000 unused laptops ready to perform any computing wizardry I need it to. So sign me up too, please.
I read this article with excitement, because I'm eyeballing old commercial tiny PC's for a Plex server and don't want to shell out the $75 for it. If I could just go scour the landfill, I'd be happy. Maybe I'll come across a pallet of old MTG cards...
What computers released in the last, Idk 10yrs, maybe almost 15yrs don't have these requirements? I don't think I've seen a computer without at least the Windows 11 base requirements in a long time. Even when Netbooks were all the rage, they usually had those Intel Atom chips that were at least 1Ghz. With storage, HDDs in pre-builts are usually 500GB minimum and have been for several years. With SSDs, 256GB minimum. I don't think I've seen anything less than 128GB in a long time, either. And RAM seems to have standardized around 8GB minimum. I see many PCs being sold with 16GB these days as part of the base build.
Certainly, my perspective is from the developed world, particularly the US. But are there lots of computers in less well-off areas that are still running PCs that don't hit those Windows 11 requirements?
Obviously a lot of this supposed eWaste will come from enterprise environments. Even my small office rotates all computers out every 3-5yrs (which is probably a bigger issue in terms of eWaste generation). But I can't imagine there are many enterprises that are still running such weak computers that won't be able to make the jump to Windows 11. TPM issues, as someone else mentioned, notwithstanding.
It's not the specs themselves that prohibit an upgrade, it's the actual components. Windows 11 has a very restrictive list of CPUs it'll work with. You need to have an 8th-gen and newer Intel or Ryzen 2000-series or newer.
I have more than hit the minimum required specs (16 GB RAM and 3.5 GHz CPU) but because my CPU is a first gen ryzen it's just unsupported. I don't care for upgrading my PC right now since it works fine so I'm stuck with Windows 10.
This is where I am too, my computer is more than capable of running windows 11 but because of an "older" cpu I can't. For me though it's whatever because it's mostly just a gaming rig anyway.
The performance requirements are a red herring. They aren't the problem. The issue is Windows 11's requirement for TPM 2.0, which limits it to CPUs no older than ~2017.
This requirement can be worked around, though I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a specific need to use Windows 11.
There were a bunch of nettops released around 2012-2015 that had terrible specs running windows 8. EG Asus X205ta. They were painful to use at the time, they'd be terrible to use today. They're difficult to get linux running on them - here's a 220 page thread on the Ubuntu forums. I have no idea what Microsoft were thinking with "WIMBoot" because it was so obviously broken. Having said all this, why are they so bad? There's a bunch of stuff that people do with computers (a bit of email, a bit of social media, watching video, a bit of word processing) and none of these require big specs.
Dell Latitude 7490 was released in 2018, so 5 years ago. It shipped with TPM 1.2 The Windows Update and PC Healthcheck says "NOT COMPATIBLE WITH WINDOWS 11". But Dell do have a driver update to get to TPM 2.0 Lots of people are not going to see that, so these very capable machines are going to end up running older insecure windows, or switched to linux/BSD, or end up as e-waste.
I think I'm clumsily trying to talk about "friction". We want it to be very easy to keep using old machines for as long as possible, and then when they're at end of life we want it to be very easy to recycle them. At the moment we've got huge software churn and it feels like you get minimal benefit but it's requiring changes to hardware. It seems nuts to me that three years is seen as "long term support" for an OS.
I have a dell laptop from my work. They have a preinstalled app that installs driver updates, including to bios updates. Assuming dell sent the tpm 2.0 update through that app, every user will have that update. The handful of users that are knowledgeable enough to disable dell’s app or reinstall windows will also know enough to look for a driver update to get tpm 2.0.
As @JCPheonix says, lots of Dell machines are sold by large companies to second user resellers. Those small companies will wipe the machines, reinstall windows, and sell them on. They're making small margins on volume, so they don't take the time to upgrade drivers or install the utilities.
I'm sort of joking here, but also, it's mildly infuriating.
When I check Windows Update it tells me my system does not have the minimum requirements to run Windows 11. It tells me to use PC HealthCheck and then sends me to a website for more information. That website tells me how to download and run PCHealthCheck.
When I run PCHealthCheck it says "TPM2 must be supported and enabled on this PC" with a link to "more about enabling TPM 2.0". I click that link. I get taken to an error page https://aka.ms/PCHCLearnMoreTPM
I mean, come on, this is something MS wants me to get and they're making me jump through these hoops? We have SV tech companies A/B testing the colour of signup buttons to see which is more effective, and we have Microsoft saying "please upgrade to the new OS, but navigate this obstacle course first".
Let's try it a different way: I search google for [Dell latitude 7490 tpm 2.0]. This gives me this page: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000132583/dell-systems-that-can-upgrade-from-tpm-version-1-2-to-2-0 That has a table of Dell Latitude models that might have shipped with tpm1.2 -- that table doesn't appear to be in any kind of order, and the Dell Latitude 7490 is not on the list. But I follow the instructions, and the software is in the downloads section of the support page for this computer. There's also this pretty heavy duty page about interactions between tpm and bitlocker. https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000103639/how-to-troubleshoot-and-resolve-common-issues-with-tpm-and-bitlocker
Zeldman's Three Click Rule is probably not good, but the dozens of clicks, across multiple websites, giving incomplete information, all so I can upgrade to an OS that does ... well, what does it do better than 10?
At this point, when 10 stops working I'll just move onto FreeBSD or Linux Mint. And here's the thing: FreeBSD was easier for me to install and get running than Windows 11 has been. That FreeBSD handbook? That's what documentation should be like.
A lot of those get resold or refurbished.
I see a lot of people saying that people should "just use Linux" but I know that a lot of people are still hesitant. I just wanted to say a few things about that. Compared to a few years ago, you can:
If you have questions or reservations about using Linux I'd love to hear them because while lot's of people cannot switch, I think now is a great time to try it out for a lot of folks.
P.S: If you want to know more about Linux and choosing a distro, you might be interested in an article on my blog about that topic
I admit that at this point I just do not get why people continue to use Windows. Arbitrary requirements, dumbification, telemetry, forced updates, mandatory online account, ads, nagging, reduced utility, reduced configuration options strewn at several places, a pretty solid start on a equivalent to safety net, just a general loss of control for the user and a change of attitude of the os from being a tool for the user to making a tool of the user. What what MS even have to do at this point for more users to consider moving away?
It is trivial to use Linux. If you actually need Windows it is trivial to use it alongside Linux. Even a technically illiterate person should have no problem doing it over the weekend. Windows will simply get worse, it will get worse more and faster the more are people unwilling to abandon it.
We live in an age where computing technology is everywhere and absolutely necessary to function in society. Deciding that computers are magic and being unwilling to do the absolutely bare minimum to understand the surface level of software is, and I stand by that, at the absolute very best shortsighted.
It’s not trivial to use Linux.
It's not necessarily trivial to install Linux, especially if you're not technical, but there are absolutely distros where it's pretty trivial to use Linux, especially if you're mostly using your computer for web browsing. I could absolutely hand my mother my Linux desktop and as long as she recognized the firefox icon she'd be fine.
Of course, this group of users is probably the last group to switch on their own, which means not many of them currently use Linux. But I think it's worth distinguishing between getting Linux set up (which, even with the easiest installers, can still be daunting for a non-technical user) and using it day to day (which honestly is far less dissimilar to Windows for your average casual user than most people think).
Oh yeah absolutely true, but that's a pretty big factor for most people so it's definitely worth acknowledging.
I hate Microsoft's monopolistic practices but it's IMO not wise to dismiss it as "capitalist stink" or whatever. A productive answer would be: How can it be made easier to ship more computers with Linux pre-installed or how do we make installing it from scratch easier than Windows. Especially answers like the latter could put a foot in the door. But according to Linux enthusiasts that either doesn't matter or "is already solved".
I mean... I have nothing but respect for Linux as a technical project, the idealism of the people who keep it running and the sheer depth and quality of its underlying functionality. But the UX culture in "Linux" (yes, "Linux"-wide, not individual distros) is simply not where it needs to be. There is just too little respect for it. It's not just about writing code to make the pixels show up, this is design-in-the-classic-sense work, this is psychological work and instead of addressing the lack thereof, any discussion on it by people who actually care about Linux is delegated to some "distros" that supposedly long solved it and how details already kinda-sorta work great for their mom/coworker. That's not enough to make Linux a thing. Maybe that's okay, but we can't have it both ways. If it's not ok, the "Linux" approach to UX is not ok.
idk what to tell you. If I sat my mother in front of a vanilla Ubuntu install, the biggest confusion would be the location of the taskbar.
Referring to a "Linux approach to UX" is just bizarre to me -- there isn't some mystical unified Linux-wide approach to UX. Additionally, when it comes to the casual use I'm talking about, 100% of the UX/UI elements that a normal casual user interacts with is a dependent on the desktop environment, which can vary even within the same distro (not sure why you insist on the scare quotes theres, unless you're just really anti-abbreviations for some reason). No one wants there to be one unified desktop environment experience across all of Linux. The cloeest thing you'd get is Gnome, since it's currently the most popular afaik, and it gets a lot of shade within the Linux community but that's in large part because of decisions that make it more familiar and user friendly to casual users coming from Windows or MacOS.
I don't think being not painful to use is enough to "make Linux a thing". I think that would require a ton of factors, many of which are either undesirable or pipe dreams. But I've never said Linux is going to "become a thing", just that the average casual user is not going to be any more impeded by using a Linux desktop than they would switching from Windows to MacOS (in fact, probably less so).
There is, and it's "don't be a dummy and learn these few simple commands and where that system menu is hidden, which is a slightly different spot than the last time you used Linux since this is a totally different distro but it's better, trust me, but make sure you don't activate this without making sure you're running the latest version of that, you find the version number through this simple command which wasn't in that initial list of simple commands I gave you but that's okay it's just a special case since that driver for your input device doesn't really work just use another one for the time being. And don't forget to type sudo first."
...okay so the things a casual user would never need to know exist, gotcha
Ok, unplug your keybroad, pick a language that you don't even have a slightest clue it means. After that, try to install linux and daily drive it. That how the average users see linux, there a lot of don't know and don't know don't know that normal person have toward computer. Doubly so with both android and iOS hide anything that approach technical. You have to remember just by on this site you are way more knowledgeable about computer than need to live in the modern world for anyone whose job don't involve anything harder than prepare document and doing excel.
I get it but there are simple comprehensive tutorials than go over it. If anything installing beginner linux distro is easier than installing Windows though that is probably moot point since due to its dominance it comes preinstalled.
I get that most people do not want to go into the technical details. I certainly do not understand even the complete sw stack even cursorily not even mentioning the hw. I simply think that that the over reliance on commercial entities due to lack of will to put aside temporary convenience leads to what we can see right now in the world.
I do not think even someone that exclusively used ios all their lives would be unable to install and use Linux and I think that refusal to even consider that option will inevitably lead to more barriers, more monetization, less convenience and other effects.
It’s not the OS install that’s the problem (although it can be tedious at times), it’s all the programs. I’ve found the file system and processes for installing programs isn’t that intuitive.
How long ago did you try to use Linux? The file system is more or less identical to that in Windows for a non-technical user (that is, you click on folders to find files you saved there and itherwise don't engage with it) and installing programs is no harder than clicking an installer.exe on Windows if you're using something like Ubuntu. If I download a .deb file from a website I literally just click it and it opens a pop-up asking me if I want to install it -- this is basically the same as on Windows. Most Linux users are more technical and use the command line but the more user-friendly distros make it really easy to use Linux without ever touching it.
I encourage you to try again: the file system is something you can get used to and installing programs is easier than on windows: I have maybe one app that hasn't been installed throught the standard app store.
Corporate users use windows because it gives them control of the machine and software.
Look at software like Exchange and Outlook - these have a strangle hold on commercial email for good reason, even though there are some objectively awful things about them.
MS Office is interesting. Most of the functionality exists elsewhere, but I think that some professions need the last 4% that MS Office provides. Lawyers need a particular template that's easier to do with Word, accountants need some spreadsheet thing that's easier to do with Excel, architects need etc etc. So these professions try the alternative and it almost completely works but doesn't quite cover their edge cases.
MS Teams objectively sucks. It's especially bad if you're a member of the public trying to dial into meetings held by people who are all part of a large organisation. It sort of sucks if you're people in different organisations trying to have a meeting together. DIfferent features (chat, reactions, hands-up) appear or disappear and the people running the meeting don't always know enough about how to get these working for guests, and guests don't know because they'd normally use Zoom. Blows my mind that after three years of pandemic and remote working we're still stuck with Teams and Zoom. But corporate use teams because they get control. It's possible to use Teams on Linux - you click the invite link, and launch classic teams in a browser such as Firefox. It's not a good experience, and if it doesn't work there's no-one who can help you.
I've yet to meet someone who has a good experience with Teams (and my wife works for Microsoft). My job sometimes switches our standups trom Zoom to Teams for a week or two in order to help someone run tests and it always involves EXTENSIVE complaining.
Hi! I use teams at work and it works great for what I do every day. 2 meetings a week and lots of text chatting in a group DM mostly, with the occasional text/screenshare call from an individual.
Glad it works for you! It's just been a very clunky experience on our end using the group video calls more.
I download a lot of pirated games, they don't always work on Linux, and managing Wine prefixes isn't fun even with Lutris or Bottles. But even legit copies have issues. Using Windows has all the advantages of not being an edge case. A lot more things are likely to work with little to no intervention of my own.
If they don't, the fixes always assume I'm running Windows. Not to mention mods, hacks, and tips in general. They all expect Windows, and I'm no programmer: I can follow instructions, but I'm not going to figure anything out by myself.
I know you can game on Linux, and I did that before. It is generally a good experience but it is just not the same. Steam Deck excluded, the praise for gaming on Linux is full of hyperbole.
Edit: also, lots of peripheral are not plug and play, even when they work you often have to settle for reduced functionality or control. This includes cameras, microphones, gamepads, keyboards, mouses, and many other hardware which are controlled via software made specifically for Windows.
Love Linux though. Still have Manjaro on my laptop.
My father in law is facing having to upgrade because of this. The minute linux supports professional level photography software, he will switch.
As far as I know e the closest we have at the moment as open source alternative for photography is Darktable (https://www.darktable.org/). It might be worth a try, in the light of looking for a long term alternative.
Thanks!
Headline: "Millions of Windows Laptops Originally Headed to Landfills Now Help Save Business, Bridge Digital Divide"
"...By leveraging various open source Linux distributions and various open source virtualization tools, millions of Windows laptops - originally expected to become ewaste - become fully repurposeable for consumers and all manner of small businesses. Not only has this grand repurposing helped avoid ewaste, but many consumers save money by avoiding to need to buy more unnecessary computers...Furthermore, operational costs are saved by millions of small and medium businesses by the mere practice of......"
<awakens from dream/sleeping> Whoa, what happened!?! Awww, man, that was only a dream about linux and helping with the digital divide! Dang it!