They're also adding tab groups in 137 which is one of the major features that I've really felt was missing. I'm stoked about that, I don't really like the UX of any of the extensions that offered...
They're also adding tab groups in 137 which is one of the major features that I've really felt was missing. I'm stoked about that, I don't really like the UX of any of the extensions that offered tab groups - they're just generally clunky or take up additional screen real-estate.
That existing "tab container" was a completely different thing solving different problems regarding privacy. It's kinda nifty but very unintuitive. I hope what they are doing is essentially giving...
That existing "tab container" was a completely different thing solving different problems regarding privacy. It's kinda nifty but very unintuitive.
I hope what they are doing is essentially giving us Chrome's tab group UX with the utility of tab containers.
EDIT: okay, I turned on the flag for the tab group update and it seems like tab groups and tab containers just work together with no issue. It just treats the container as another tab and are free to mix and match them in groups no matter the container.
One UX nitpick I have is thst you can't drrsg the actual group. You can drag tabs around it but not the group itself
Well. This might actually bring me back into the Firefox fold. I first got spoiled/addicted on vertical tabs when I did chat technical support in 2018. Once I went vertical, I couldn't go back....
Well. This might actually bring me back into the Firefox fold.
I first got spoiled/addicted on vertical tabs when I did chat technical support in 2018. Once I went vertical, I couldn't go back. Too many tabs open and vertical means seeing all (or... at least more) of them.
Chrome had good support, but a couple of years or so ago, the newest version of Edge actually..... became a pretty damned good Chromium browser, with the best vertical tab support I'd found yet.
This new iteration from Firefox is quite acceptable, and with the advent of tab groups will probably be enough for me to work on switching over.
I've long supported Firefox, but I've had to switch a bit over the years. I started out on NSCA Mosaic. Used Netscape, then IE 3 won me over. Somewhere along the way, the first tabbed browsers came into being. I remember... Maxthon? There were a couple I used. Then it "settled" down into mostly IE/Firefox/Chrome. I was a Firefox user for quite some time, but they had some bad years where things got bloated and crashy, and I was on very low-end boxes, so I moved to Chrome. And that's basically where I sat for a long time - moving to Edge when it came out with better vertical tabs. I used Vivaldi for a while - that was the one with great vertical tab support and used by my tech support compatriots - but extension support wasn't good enough…
So I'm looking forward to this. Firefox has always had my heart, if not my use. heh. And although I'm one of those weird geeks that generally like Microsoft's products, with Outlook limiting now to 10 email accounts and my hosting needs having a number more that I need to monitor… I'm thankful that Thunderbird has - within the past few months - really matured from a clunky thing that was buggy and wonky to one that it actually powerful and easy to use and looks great imho. And full dark mode support, which is also another requirement for me these days. heh.
I have 137 (On ARM MacOS) but don't seem to have that feature. However I did just switch to vertical tabs, having never used it before, and I really like it!
I have 137 (On ARM MacOS) but don't seem to have that feature.
However I did just switch to vertical tabs, having never used it before, and I really like it!
It looks like Firefox is slowly rolling it out to users but you can use it right now by going to about:config and then toggling browser.tabs.groups.enabled to true. I just tried this and the...
It looks like Firefox is slowly rolling it out to users but you can use it right now by going to about:config and then toggling browser.tabs.groups.enabled to true.
I just tried this and the grouping works with sidebar tabs and groups are collapsable. I can't see a way to add/remove tabs from a group other than use the context menu though which is a little slow.
[edit] Actually, you can drag tabs into an existing tab group in the sidebar if you drop it between the group title and an existing tab.
The UX for dragging a tab over another to create a group feels a little less smooth than in Chrome. It helps a little if you edit the browser.tabs.groups.dragOverDelayMS to be shorter than the...
The UX for dragging a tab over another to create a group feels a little less smooth than in Chrome. It helps a little if you edit the browser.tabs.groups.dragOverDelayMS to be shorter than the current 240ms, but it still feels a little fussy, I'm not sure what it is. Sometimes the tabs will be overlapping and it just won't trigger creating a group, and that seems to be a little worse in vertical tabs just because the target is smaller. But its a new feature, to be fair, so I'm sure some tweaks will be needed.
I was able to go to about:config and set browser.tabs.groups.enabled to True and get them working. I also turned browser.tabs.groups.dragOverDelayMS to 120ms which is about half of the default,...
I was able to go to about:config and set browser.tabs.groups.enabled to True and get them working. I also turned browser.tabs.groups.dragOverDelayMS to 120ms which is about half of the default, because it felt too sluggish at 240. I might wind up dropping it even lower.
I understand the logic behind vertical tabs, given that websites generally don’t use the full width of a browser window. I can’t get over how asymmetrical vertical tabs make my browser, though....
I understand the logic behind vertical tabs, given that websites generally don’t use the full width of a browser window.
I can’t get over how asymmetrical vertical tabs make my browser, though. I’ve toggled them off and on a few times, and I see the functionality advantage, but it just looks off
It took me a couple of days to get used to this. Now when I use a browser configured without vertical tabs, it feels weirdly cramped and I don't think I could ever go back.
It took me a couple of days to get used to this. Now when I use a browser configured without vertical tabs, it feels weirdly cramped and I don't think I could ever go back.
Yes. I have an ultrawide monitor and generally use it as two side by side bezel-less monitors. My eyes are trained to generally aim for the center of each "monitor", vertical tabs move that...
Yes.
I have an ultrawide monitor and generally use it as two side by side bezel-less monitors. My eyes are trained to generally aim for the center of each "monitor", vertical tabs move that center, so I just keep the tabs at the top.
I've been using the Sideberry add-on for a while now (which basically does the same thing, including tab grouping), and I get what you're saying. It took a while to get used to it, but now it...
I've been using the Sideberry add-on for a while now (which basically does the same thing, including tab grouping), and I get what you're saying.
It took a while to get used to it, but now it absolutely doesn't bother me any longer, and it's so much easier to find back tabs when you continuously have dozens of them open.
For me, it is the feel of clutter. With tabs at the top they are out of the way as my focus is generally somewhere on the middle line of my screen. Having tabs there (or a OS taskbar for that...
For me, it is the feel of clutter. With tabs at the top they are out of the way as my focus is generally somewhere on the middle line of my screen. Having tabs there (or a OS taskbar for that matter) works as a distraction.
I did, but there is actually a button to greatly reduce the size of the tab, which helps. I'm trying this out, but imagine that I'll go back to top tabs soon enough. Edit: I think part of the...
I did, but there is actually a button to greatly reduce the size of the tab, which helps. I'm trying this out, but imagine that I'll go back to top tabs soon enough.
Edit: I think part of the issue for me is that I have been doing tabs at the top for like... 30 years or something, and it's hard to overcome where I want the tabs to be.
I find that vertical tabs actually help with my similar neurosis, because many of the sites I use have things attached to the side, so the tab bar ends up pushing those things towards the center...
I find that vertical tabs actually help with my similar neurosis, because many of the sites I use have things attached to the side, so the tab bar ends up pushing those things towards the center of the screen.
For example, this text box is almost perfectly centered thanks to the side tabs but would be placed all the way to the left without them.
Probably OG Tree Style Tabs. It was much more powerful before Firefox deprecated the old UI API because it was a complete performance hog in the layout engine, which meant TST was limited to just...
Probably OG Tree Style Tabs. It was much more powerful before Firefox deprecated the old UI API because it was a complete performance hog in the layout engine, which meant TST was limited to just sidebar features.
It probably depends on how many tabs you keep open. I routinely have two windows open with 10-20 tabs in each. I'd go nutty dealing with top tabs trying to find what I'm looking for. Although my...
It probably depends on how many tabs you keep open. I routinely have two windows open with 10-20 tabs in each. I'd go nutty dealing with top tabs trying to find what I'm looking for.
Although my first side tab experience was actually based on a screen ratio thing rendering a browser unusable without them - I had one of those old Acer Aspire One netbooks with a 1024x600 screen. The vertical space was so tiny that just being able to ditch the tab bar was a massive usability improvement. I got used to it then and I've stuck with it for 15 years since!
That’s what I liked about Arc- vertical tabs that’s disappear when you’re not missed over the page side of your screen. That way the website takes up the whole screen. Unfortunately it’s Chromium.
That’s what I liked about Arc- vertical tabs that’s disappear when you’re not missed over the page side of your screen. That way the website takes up the whole screen. Unfortunately it’s Chromium.
It's actually been around for even longer, but disabled by default and locked behind a setting only exposed through about:config Firefox 137 introduced native Tab Groups, though after playing with...
It's actually been around for even longer, but disabled by default and locked behind a setting only exposed through about:config
Firefox 137 introduced native Tab Groups, though after playing with it I feel that the Simple Tab Groups extension is a better fit for people using them to manage browser workspaces.
I've been using Sidebery in addition to some chrome.css hacks to get ride of the native tabs on top and it's been great. However, I'm happy to see native support for these. Even just simple tab...
I've been using Sidebery in addition to some chrome.css hacks to get ride of the native tabs on top and it's been great. However, I'm happy to see native support for these. Even just simple tab groups would probably be enough for me tbh.
I switched from Sideberry to using native vertical tabs + the Simple Tab Groups extension and it's been wonderful. The only thing I would change is adding some way to put the tab group switcher...
I switched from Sideberry to using native vertical tabs + the Simple Tab Groups extension and it's been wonderful. The only thing I would change is adding some way to put the tab group switcher button in the sidebar itself. For now, I have it in the toolbar next to the reload button and it works well enough.
After you get vertical tabs you seemingly can drag the tab bar width control all the way to the left to get it to disappear. It’s still kind of hacky and it seems to come back every time you open...
After you get vertical tabs you seemingly can drag the tab bar width control all the way to the left to get it to disappear.
It’s still kind of hacky and it seems to come back every time you open a window, but it’s an improvement.
Look at the top left corner at least on mine - the side bar button opens and closes the tab bar now. Watching the sidebar icon, dragging it to the left all the way seems to be essentially a...
Look at the top left corner at least on mine - the side bar button opens and closes the tab bar now. Watching the sidebar icon, dragging it to the left all the way seems to be essentially a shortcut to clicking close on that.
Can't comment on the new window part. I usually have two windows open all the time side by side (ultrawide monitor that I use like two old 4:3 monitors just with no bezel) so I don't open a new window very regularly.
As someone who has just started messing around with vertical tabs and prefers Firefox, this is great news! As someone who likes good design, why is every web page designed to only be shown on a...
As someone who has just started messing around with vertical tabs and prefers Firefox, this is great news! As someone who likes good design, why is every web page designed to only be shown on a smartphone's width of space? Tildes is pretty much the only site I visit that uses my monitor real estate.
Now you’ve got me thinking about a “reader mode” for desktop that splits the page into (2/3/4 based on user preference) columns like physical print media! I think I’d be willing to read more on...
Now you’ve got me thinking about a “reader mode” for desktop that splits the page into (2/3/4 based on user preference) columns like physical print media! I think I’d be willing to read more on desktop if that were the case. For now the majority of my reading (other than physical books) is via my phone
"Old school" web designs were made with 4:3 displays in mind, so they just used the full width and word-wrapped. Today nearly everyone uses a 16:9 display. Using the full width for primarily text...
"Old school" web designs were made with 4:3 displays in mind, so they just used the full width and word-wrapped.
Today nearly everyone uses a 16:9 display. Using the full width for primarily text content actually hurts readability. The pre-web way to solve this problem was to split the content into multiple columns. But this works better in a paper interface built around horizontal navigation. Computer interfaces are built more around vertical navigation (think scrolling through a word document vs flipping pages in a magazine or newspaper).
is it possible to make it open on hover and close automatically when you move the cursor away ? edge has this but I couldn't find the option in firefox, also, the vertical tabs in firefox resize...
is it possible to make it open on hover and close automatically when you move the cursor away ? edge has this but I couldn't find the option in firefox, also, the vertical tabs in firefox resize the whole page when I open and close them. unlike edge, which is more like an overlay. I honestly prefer edge's implementation but if someone knows a way to get it to work like this in firefox, I might switch
They're also adding tab groups in 137 which is one of the major features that I've really felt was missing. I'm stoked about that, I don't really like the UX of any of the extensions that offered tab groups - they're just generally clunky or take up additional screen real-estate.
That existing "tab container" was a completely different thing solving different problems regarding privacy. It's kinda nifty but very unintuitive.
I hope what they are doing is essentially giving us Chrome's tab group UX with the utility of tab containers.
EDIT: okay, I turned on the flag for the tab group update and it seems like tab groups and tab containers just work together with no issue. It just treats the container as another tab and are free to mix and match them in groups no matter the container.
One UX nitpick I have is thst you can't drrsg the actual group. You can drag tabs around it but not the group itself
Well. This might actually bring me back into the Firefox fold.
I first got spoiled/addicted on vertical tabs when I did chat technical support in 2018. Once I went vertical, I couldn't go back. Too many tabs open and vertical means seeing all (or... at least more) of them.
Chrome had good support, but a couple of years or so ago, the newest version of Edge actually..... became a pretty damned good Chromium browser, with the best vertical tab support I'd found yet.
This new iteration from Firefox is quite acceptable, and with the advent of tab groups will probably be enough for me to work on switching over.
I've long supported Firefox, but I've had to switch a bit over the years. I started out on NSCA Mosaic. Used Netscape, then IE 3 won me over. Somewhere along the way, the first tabbed browsers came into being. I remember... Maxthon? There were a couple I used. Then it "settled" down into mostly IE/Firefox/Chrome. I was a Firefox user for quite some time, but they had some bad years where things got bloated and crashy, and I was on very low-end boxes, so I moved to Chrome. And that's basically where I sat for a long time - moving to Edge when it came out with better vertical tabs. I used Vivaldi for a while - that was the one with great vertical tab support and used by my tech support compatriots - but extension support wasn't good enough…
So I'm looking forward to this. Firefox has always had my heart, if not my use. heh. And although I'm one of those weird geeks that generally like Microsoft's products, with Outlook limiting now to 10 email accounts and my hosting needs having a number more that I need to monitor… I'm thankful that Thunderbird has - within the past few months - really matured from a clunky thing that was buggy and wonky to one that it actually powerful and easy to use and looks great imho. And full dark mode support, which is also another requirement for me these days. heh.
I have 137 (On ARM MacOS) but don't seem to have that feature.
However I did just switch to vertical tabs, having never used it before, and I really like it!
It looks like Firefox is slowly rolling it out to users but you can use it right now by going to about:config and then toggling browser.tabs.groups.enabled to true.
I just tried this and the grouping works with sidebar tabs and groups are collapsable. I can't see a way to add/remove tabs from a group other than use the context menu though which is a little slow.
[edit] Actually, you can drag tabs into an existing tab group in the sidebar if you drop it between the group title and an existing tab.
The UX for dragging a tab over another to create a group feels a little less smooth than in Chrome. It helps a little if you edit the browser.tabs.groups.dragOverDelayMS to be shorter than the current 240ms, but it still feels a little fussy, I'm not sure what it is. Sometimes the tabs will be overlapping and it just won't trigger creating a group, and that seems to be a little worse in vertical tabs just because the target is smaller. But its a new feature, to be fair, so I'm sure some tweaks will be needed.
This might get me to switch over from Zen. Firefox is rolling it out gradually and I don't have it yet, but I'm looking forward to trying it out.
I was able to go to about:config and set browser.tabs.groups.enabled to True and get them working. I also turned browser.tabs.groups.dragOverDelayMS to 120ms which is about half of the default, because it felt too sluggish at 240. I might wind up dropping it even lower.
That's super helpful, thank you!
I understand the logic behind vertical tabs, given that websites generally don’t use the full width of a browser window.
I can’t get over how asymmetrical vertical tabs make my browser, though. I’ve toggled them off and on a few times, and I see the functionality advantage, but it just looks off
Anyone else encounter this particular neurosis?
It took me a couple of days to get used to this. Now when I use a browser configured without vertical tabs, it feels weirdly cramped and I don't think I could ever go back.
Yes.
I have an ultrawide monitor and generally use it as two side by side bezel-less monitors. My eyes are trained to generally aim for the center of each "monitor", vertical tabs move that center, so I just keep the tabs at the top.
I've been using the Sideberry add-on for a while now (which basically does the same thing, including tab grouping), and I get what you're saying.
It took a while to get used to it, but now it absolutely doesn't bother me any longer, and it's so much easier to find back tabs when you continuously have dozens of them open.
For me, it is the feel of clutter. With tabs at the top they are out of the way as my focus is generally somewhere on the middle line of my screen. Having tabs there (or a OS taskbar for that matter) works as a distraction.
I did, but there is actually a button to greatly reduce the size of the tab, which helps. I'm trying this out, but imagine that I'll go back to top tabs soon enough.
Edit: I think part of the issue for me is that I have been doing tabs at the top for like... 30 years or something, and it's hard to overcome where I want the tabs to be.
I find that vertical tabs actually help with my similar neurosis, because many of the sites I use have things attached to the side, so the tab bar ends up pushing those things towards the center of the screen.
For example, this text box is almost perfectly centered thanks to the side tabs but would be placed all the way to the left without them.
I did as well, I kinda just had to use them until I was used to it.
Way back in the day (like Firefox 1.0 back) there was a vertical tab add-on which supported auto-hide which solved this problem nicely.
Probably OG Tree Style Tabs. It was much more powerful before Firefox deprecated the old UI API because it was a complete performance hog in the layout engine, which meant TST was limited to just sidebar features.
It probably depends on how many tabs you keep open. I routinely have two windows open with 10-20 tabs in each. I'd go nutty dealing with top tabs trying to find what I'm looking for.
Although my first side tab experience was actually based on a screen ratio thing rendering a browser unusable without them - I had one of those old Acer Aspire One netbooks with a 1024x600 screen. The vertical space was so tiny that just being able to ditch the tab bar was a massive usability improvement. I got used to it then and I've stuck with it for 15 years since!
That’s what I liked about Arc- vertical tabs that’s disappear when you’re not missed over the page side of your screen. That way the website takes up the whole screen. Unfortunately it’s Chromium.
Apparently this has been around for a month, but I didn’t know about it until now after my Firefox just updated.
Native vertical tabs! FINALLY!
It's actually been around for even longer, but disabled by default and locked behind a setting only exposed through about:config
Firefox 137 introduced native Tab Groups, though after playing with it I feel that the Simple Tab Groups extension is a better fit for people using them to manage browser workspaces.
PRAISE BE!
It lacks the tree nature of Tree Style Tabs, but perhaps they'll be able to use this as a basis to get a more native style TST.
I've been using Sidebery in addition to some chrome.css hacks to get ride of the native tabs on top and it's been great. However, I'm happy to see native support for these. Even just simple tab groups would probably be enough for me tbh.
I switched from Sideberry to using native vertical tabs + the Simple Tab Groups extension and it's been wonderful. The only thing I would change is adding some way to put the tab group switcher button in the sidebar itself. For now, I have it in the toolbar next to the reload button and it works well enough.
After you get vertical tabs you seemingly can drag the tab bar width control all the way to the left to get it to disappear.
It’s still kind of hacky and it seems to come back every time you open a window, but it’s an improvement.
Look at the top left corner at least on mine - the side bar button opens and closes the tab bar now. Watching the sidebar icon, dragging it to the left all the way seems to be essentially a shortcut to clicking close on that.
Can't comment on the new window part. I usually have two windows open all the time side by side (ultrawide monitor that I use like two old 4:3 monitors just with no bezel) so I don't open a new window very regularly.
As someone who has just started messing around with vertical tabs and prefers Firefox, this is great news! As someone who likes good design, why is every web page designed to only be shown on a smartphone's width of space? Tildes is pretty much the only site I visit that uses my monitor real estate.
It's good design, at least for text. It's much easier to read in a narrow column than a wide column, as you don't need to move your eyes as much.
Now you’ve got me thinking about a “reader mode” for desktop that splits the page into (2/3/4 based on user preference) columns like physical print media! I think I’d be willing to read more on desktop if that were the case. For now the majority of my reading (other than physical books) is via my phone
"Old school" web designs were made with 4:3 displays in mind, so they just used the full width and word-wrapped.
Today nearly everyone uses a 16:9 display. Using the full width for primarily text content actually hurts readability. The pre-web way to solve this problem was to split the content into multiple columns. But this works better in a paper interface built around horizontal navigation. Computer interfaces are built more around vertical navigation (think scrolling through a word document vs flipping pages in a magazine or newspaper).
It’s nice to have it as a vanilla Firefox feature, but I prefer the implementation that Zen Browser (a Firefox fork) has going.
is it possible to make it open on hover and close automatically when you move the cursor away ? edge has this but I couldn't find the option in firefox, also, the vertical tabs in firefox resize the whole page when I open and close them. unlike edge, which is more like an overlay. I honestly prefer edge's implementation but if someone knows a way to get it to work like this in firefox, I might switch
Just found out you can enable this feature in librewolf by setting
sidebar.verticalTabsto true inabout:config