33
votes
New Android phones, stock or flash?
I'm getting a new phone (OnePlus 13, not that it really matters) and I'm considering the benefits of flashing over something like LineageOs straight away rather than using the stock OS.
Normally, I expect? You'd run stock until security updates stop or something changes where you want a longer running OS, but I'm considering it because I cannot be bothered with all the bloatware they put on modern phones these days.
Plus it should save a heap of battery.
What are people's thoughts on this? Is it something you always do anyway or do you usually run stock for a while?
If I personally was in the market for an Android phone, I'd grab one that supports GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
But otherwise just stick with the basic and maybe change the launcher to something that fits your style. I've personally been using Nova Launcher Pro for ... dunno how long. Mostly because the defaults are decent to me.
Graphene might well be on a sticky wicket going forward with Google removing the Pixel devices from the public device tree, and other complications.
Here's some discussion on it
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/23080-aosp-and-pixel-device-support
That's no longer an issue, they already wrote the device tree for Android 16 themselves and can just use that going forward.
What's the benefit of Graphene? I just received a hand me down Pixel 7 Pro and I'm pretty happy with it so far, so I'm not sure what reason I have to migrate other than potential privacy.
"other than privacy" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comment since some consider privacy a rather huge thing, and that is indeed the selling point. I'd say that GapheneOS also is also more generally secure as an OS.
Another way to read that is "other than benefit A (which I'm aware of), are there other reasons?"
I didn't read their comment as discounting privacy as a valid reason for those who prioritize it, but rather asking for what they might not be aware of.
Privacy is kind of a rabbit hole where when you start down that path it gets more and more unsettling as you go. You start at “social media TOS is bullshit” and end at “Android leaves exploits open seemingly on purpose so that advertisers can access data without your permission” and along the way you pick up why its bad that they have your data, and what your data is.
We expect governments to know who we are, but do we want private services we’ve never used to know who we are?
Then all the way at the bottom is determinism, do I really decide where I spend my money, or are all of my spending habits because of the subtle advertising that I don’t even recognize as advertising? I saw a picture of a nice mountain cabin on imgur and now I want to go, was that an advertisement?
What I mean to say is that I'm not generally worried about it.
I understand the concept, I work in tech, I know what's what. It just doesn't necessarily concern me that much, as I have a lot going on in my life and fiddling with things to ensure they're private is low priority to me.
I understand that sounds flippant and it is, but I already fully block ads in my household and on my phone via multiple layers, I don't use social media, I generally understand how the algorithm works. I run Linux on several of my machines, but I just don't have the mental bandwidth to be so invested in totally locking myself down, so in order to convince me to switch to something like this, I need more than a nebulous idea of "privacy". Is it faster? Are there some open source services on it that work better? Can I access my Android/Data folder without having to fuck around trying to trick the OS into letting me access it? etc.
Yeah, you’re about where I was at when I started down the rabbit hole. I used to think that since I blocked ads, that meant I didn’t see any ads.
Ads are baked in to every type of content we browse. Any time you use anything that suggests content to you, and you click it, you risk clicking something that is an advertisement disguised as something else.
I use Reddit the most out of any social media, so I’ll give an example from Reddit, but understand this happens even on news websites.
Astroturfing comes in the form of single accounts on Reddit. The account’s purpose is to direct people towards a product or idea that the company is trying to sell. They fill entire comments sections with restaurant reviews, product reviews, vacation plans, stories about their weddings or engagements or where they celebrated their birthday or they voted for so and so because blah blah doesn’t actually matter. This stuff is all over Reddit, and its not always easy to tell when the comment you’re reading wasn’t made by a human being, much less a human being trying to sell you on something.
Honestly, Ive used Facebook, Youtube, and Imgur and all of these platforms do the same thing. I am routinely targeted by fake content trying sell me on something even though I use Linux everywhere, don’t use social media on my phone, don’t do banking anywhere but my linux computer, etc etc all the same stuff you do.
I think a lot of people, including past me, just doesn’t know when they are viewing content that was created to sell them something. Like, think about how you decide who to vote for. You view a lot of news stuff online right? How do you actually hear about the news? Cause even if it comes directly from another person, they got it from some media algorithm designed to sell their vote to the highest bidder.
Yes, I absolutely understand this. I don't use Reddit and only use YouTube to watch a select few YouTubers, block it for my kids (because it's all ads). I don't have smart devices, don't buy random crap, my cars are all old (my newest being 13 years old and my highest mileage being 21 years old with 242k miles on the clock).
I guess what I'm trying to say is: my brain is generally mostly air gapped from the rest of the world. My Internet usage consists of Tildes and another small forum or two (often for my old cars), as well as a small, independent automotive website. I don't read much news, aside from the occasional delve into ~society here.
I'm well aware of the pervasiveness of advertising. I'm aware that everything is part of something bigger, I spent the majority of my 20s deep into the Skepticism movement (that is, stuff like Skeptics Guide to the Universe).
I'm saying, you're preaching to the choir. I have my tolerance for privacy related stuff, which is clearly a different threshold than many, but I find to be an acceptable level where I'm not paranoid about the world around me. I have bigger fish to fry than concealing all my digital tracks religiously. Not that it isn't of value, but that I've reached the level in comfortable with and don't worry about it beyond that.
The thing is that those of us who have the knowledge to be early adopters of these sorts of technologies are the ones who really should adopt it so that it doesn’t die.
If we can adopt it for ourselves, spread it, it’ll get more dev attention and become easier to use.
Instead we go “nah I don’t need it, tech isn’t ready yet, Id be giving up convenience” and then all these mobile projects die.
I really thought GrapheneOS was gonna make it this time. Its sad to see it die just like all the others.
I don't disagree, but in that regard, the reason they don't see mass adoption is because it's generally just more inconvenient and a pain in the ass to use. I stuff like this is often developed by a passionate community, but one that insists on high minded ideas of how things should be, rather than appealing to the lay person to actually encourage adoption.
For example, I still run Windows on my daily driver, because while Linux is fantastic in my numerous side machines, it's obnoxious as hell on my daily. I'm always working on little bugs and issues that are causing a bad user experience and as soon as I solve one, another pops up.
I really love Linux, especially with how annoying Windows can be these days, but at the end of the day, Windows is what lets me sit down in the evening and use my computer, rather than be distracted by the need to fix this or that and never get to what I actually want to do.
Interesting, Ive been using Linux Mint and GrapheneOs for years and while it was like that for me at first now its just kinda background noise. Most of what I do is on a browser though so I guess thats why I don’t notice.
The hardest part for me is always just installing it. Once I get past that its easy.
what was most disturbing for me personally was how shopify-run stores by default send one's information to sucky facebook stored in shadow profiles so that even if you block fb, don't have a fb account, and have ad blocks, shopify judas-es you. I found this out inadvertently when I created a fb account associated with an email used for shopping and examined fb's "privacy settings". I let the store in question know in no uncertain terms what I thought of this "practice".
I know dude its wild, like, I use amazon for shopping basically because I cant not, before Amazon I just went without things, mostly clothes, cause I just don’t have entire days to spend trying to find clothes I can stand to wear. Amazon was a game changer for me.
But now the whole entire freaking planet knows my shopping habits. I seriously get astroturfed Reddit posts suggesting comfortable clothes. The first time I realized what was happening my heart rate actually increased. I wasn’t even logged in. They knew me by my browser signature.
Ignoring privacy... I don't see graphene as being better than regular android. One of the big benefits to me is not having any AI bullshit or assistants.
some other advantages of grapheneos include sandboxed google play (minimizes battery drain and location tracking), locked boot loader (so most apps, incl. banking ime., run fine), easy install process (literally via a webui with minimal hassle), and charge control (limiting charging to 80% etc. to minimize battery wear). But like the others who responded to you, better privacy was my primary reason to switch to it and to donate monthly to the project as well.
This is what I'm looking for, thanks. Can you access your System files without being denied?
I don't think so - I just tried and both the file manager and termux limited me to /storage and /data - even /tmp seems off limits.
I feel the same, but I really wish I didn't have to use Google's hardware. I have come to despise them as a company not to mention that both my last phone (Pixel 4a) and my wife's current phone (Pixel 6a) were nerfed into oblivion via updates because of fiery defects.
According to GrapheneOS team, they are currently collaborating with a major OEM to introduce support for a new phone.
That's good to hear. I am very curious as to what OEM it is.
Samsung maybe? I know when Android 16 released they were posting on ActivityPub about how Samsung, I believe, was the only other vendor with the required hardware for all the security & privacy practices that they want. The only reason they don't support Samsung right now is that Samsung doesn't allow changing the bootloader(?).
[ I'm not an Android person so this is a summary based on my bad memory lol ]
Samsung has become more and more unfriendly to bootloader unlocking over the years, so I'm super skeptical about it. I guess we shall see.
Got my stupid $100 for the 6a battery kill update. Literally overnight went from holding a charge all day to dropping 20% before I even get out of bed in the morning.
I tried out the Nord n30 but it felt like a side grade, trying to avoid a 9a out of spite but they subsidize them so heavily it may still be best bang for my buck. I don't care about privacy, and like Gemini so it is what it is.
You got a credit for the 6a? I thought they just did that for the 4a. I'll have to look into it. Google didn't give me a credit for the 4a either, same my IMEI wasn't affected which is total bullshit as my battery went to worthless after the update. I ended up switching to LineageOS to get to usable again while waited on a new phone.
Pixels have usually been underwhelming in terms of specs, too. Typically solidly midrange with a price leaning more in the flagship direction, and their design isn’t everybody’s cup of tea (the huge camera bump thing they’ve had going for a while now is… a choice).
The Pixel phones in the "a" line were quite excellent from a value perspective for quite a while. Google basically ruined them after the 5a as far as I am concerned and their obnoxious AI focus just makes me worse to me. If I had another way to use GrapheneOS, I wouldn't have bought a new one.
Personally I'd stay away from custom ROMs these days. Pick a vendor and run with it. For the vast majority of custom ROMs you're only increasing complexity and decreasing security and reliability. Especially if your device is new and still under active vendor support.
I went this route due to artificial restrictions placed on the Android ecosystem and even with usage of Universal Android Debloater the experience is bad. I cannot imagine the nightmare of using the stock bloat daily.
It will of course vary with manufacturer but I personally know of zero ones that are actually good instead of varying levels of bad.
I guess it depends on what your are looking at, but I've enjoyed OnePlus phones. I've used them for myself and extended family and haven't had issues of new apps appearing, settings being locked out, etc. I'm running older ones and they still get security updates periodically. Now I've always bought the unlocked versions, so can't speak to locked editions.
In contrast, my work Samsung S23 Ultra doesn't spark joy.
I'm interested to know your thoughts on OnePlus vs Samsung. What did you like/dislike most about each?
I keep seeing screenshots of UI/UX bugs and inconsistencies in the OnePlus software, whereas One UI feels like a much more mature and stable piece of software.
For me one of the big ones is the Samsung phone keeps having games installed from system updates, where I don't know that I've ever seen that happen on OnePlus. I generally find the settings and controls to be less obfuscated or dumbed down on the OnePlus. I'd liken it to the difference between the classic and modern windows control panel: the classic just shows all the controls while the modern tries to group them in ways understandable to non-tech people.
From a default app perspective, I find the OnePlus apps to be simpler and less opinionated/branded versions of apps. E.g., on OnePlus notes is just notepad for your phone. On Samsung the notes app supports cover pages, collaborators, etc. great if that's what you want, but for me less is more for the defaults and I'll go get something else if I want more.
I haven't noticed any glitches in my UI, across the OnePlus phones I use, but I tend to buy older ones so maybe those all get worked out by the time I get them.
One other thing: my current OnePlus was released in 2019 and I am still getting security updates. That said, I'm upgrading soon for the enhanced cameras and battery capacity.
Hope that helps!
How are you decreasing security?
I know I'm increasing my security by limiting tracking and not seeing advertisements.
Unlocked bootloader would be one.
I always had unlocked bootloaders on all my computers for decades. For portable computers, it can be a bigger risk, but I'm sure proper encryption protects against most risks. Still any would-be hypothetical scenario in case of the theft or similar does not outweigh the alternative - giving full access to my computer, every day, to every big tech company with power.
I still don't get why the HW manufacturer has a say in the SW I can and cannot use (other than tech limitations). Same for right to open / repair.
IMO its dystopic
Seems my opinion differs a bit, i flash a custom rom as soon as i get a new phone. I buy xiaomi and check available custom roms and try out a ton in the first week of my bootloader getting unlocked.
I have a lot of personal QoL stuff that uses root, even if i were to stay with stock i would still want to atleast install Magisk (custom shortcuts using PBMC, making status bar smaller, and many other small things)
I never thought about security, which others in this post point out and is extremely important, yet i never think about it...
I instead have semi-monthly full TWRP backups of my phone and no site or app logins that i can't logout of remotely... yeah don't think that's enough for security.
But imo do give some roms a try, even ones with gapps if you don't want to loose convenience, it'll still improve speed and battery compared to stock.
I used to be strongly on the side of only using custom ROMs but many of the features that were once only available in custom ROMs have slowly been added to stock android over the years. The user experience has improved so much that I haven't used custom ROMs the last few years. Termux has also come a long way--it's not Linux but the userspace feels very similar which can make it easy to be productive on the phone.
But yeah, if I'm buying Xiaomi (or any heavily customized OOTB phone) then I would still probably use custom ROMs. Samsung does too but it's very possible to get a similar experience to using a custom ROM by switching the launcher and debloating
I entirely agree, seeing a lot of the features, that i once had to install xposed and modules for, now in the OS has been great. I like three things which aren't in yet, battery bar, sliding for brightness, and setting UI roundness (i like squares)
Haven't had much experience with not-heavily-customized OOTB ones, i suppose OxygenOS is a good experience on its own aswell.
I've been using Lineage OS on my Mi 9T for a long while now (over a year) and I'm personally satisfied with it. Stock Xiaomi is a clusterfuck of bloat, and ads everywhere: Photos app, videos app, themes app, home screen, folders.... If you can stick and there, it'll have one.
I expect the same for all chinese manufactureres, and Samsung also does fill their phones with bloat.
Aside from GrapheneOS (which only supports Pixels), I wouldn't really recommend any custom ROMs. They have less features/polish, and often have security issues. If you're just worried about the bloatware, that can be easily uninstalled without having to flash your phone, there are various debloater apps which just require you to connect your phone to your computer once.
Many of those apps don't work reliably, while having simple administrative account on the phone instead of handling it to Google solves the issue.
I can't speak to Lineage, but I've been using the Pixel line with stock Android for a while. I love how snappy the OS is, even years later when the hardware has been out-generationed 3 or 4 times over. My battery tends to last the whole day with moderate use, I'm not watching videos all day, but I am watching some and still doing a decent amount on it. I tend to end most days around 20-50% depending on my use that day. And the camera on the Pixel line is consistently unbeatable, they take amazing photos and videos.
Lots of great replies here, as I suspected some opinions one way or the other. I've read all of them!
I suspect I'll try out the OnePlus OS and see how much I like it. I've got a Pixel 6 pro and I hate the OS on this. It's not the worst I admit, it's not as bad as Samsung but man it's getting to me.
If it's garbage I'll consider stock or something! Thanks for all the input everyone.
I'll be honest: Even though I am avid user of Linux, and put it on every computer I get, when it comes to phones, I've always stuck with stock Android. Last decade or so has been phones from LG and, most recently, Samsung, and I'm not only satisfied with them, I'm pretty happy with the Samsung experience. I uninstall or disable almost every Google thing, and I just keep away from the main Samsung apps themselves, and everything's been pretty smooth and more or less non-invasive. Maybe Samsung is gathering telemetry under the hood or whatever, but it is what it is. I've never made a Samsung account, and don't use any of their AI products. Your needs may differ, but I just use it for phone, SMS, and apps from F-droid (including web browser).
My opinion might not be worth much here, but I recently flashed LineageOS for the first time. There's a part of me that regrets not doing it much earlier because I use a POCO X3 for the mere reason of it being cheap and I found MIUI to be a pain to deal with the entire time. Full of bugs, bloat I couldn't remove without breaking things, got slower and slower over time, privacy nightmare.
My perspective is that you should switch your ROM out if you're unhappy with it.
Not sure wether that means you've already ordered it, but if that is not the case you may also wanna look into companies such as Murena. They basically sell phones that already have a de-bloated custom ROM (in their case /e/os, a LineageOS fork) pre-installed and give you full warranty with their OS image installed. So if there's any issue with your phone you won't have to flash the original OS before sending it in, and you've got reliable support of the ROM since there's a company behind it fixing bugs that affect the phones they sell. The downsinde is, that you'll usually pay a bit more than at the original manufacturer, so that they can fund their support and software development. Murena also offers more privacy friendly services that replace some google cloud features, but it's your choice wether you wanna use those or not.
OxygenOS used to be pretty light weight and solid but I haven't used a OnePlus in a while and their software has become less good since Oppo bought them. I would try it out first before switching. In my opinion, you're better off going with a Launcher like many have mentioned. Niagara is my Launcher of choice, Pro can be purchased with a one time fee instead of the subscription nonsense and is where I keep falling back to when I get tired of most companies stock OS.
I agree, I started a happy OnePlus customer with my last phone, but the experience really only degraded from there. I'm actually somewhat surprised, but (with heavy digging into settings and replacing the home screen, I admit) I like the Samsung software of my new phone quite a bit better.
Likewise, I'm seconding Niagara as a launcher, too.
It's a very good take on a minimalist launcher and helped get me away from fussing around with my home screen too much and also from cycling between apps I really should not frequent that much.
I wish they'd allow for some more customization around some of their ideas, but that's a minor gripe.
One thing no one else has touched on, is some apps will not work on custom roms. You can get some apps to work with some effort, but not all.
Make a list of what apps you use and see if they'll run on a custom rom (either by web aearching or something like waydroid).
Of those that won't work, consider if there are alternatives or if they're deal breakers.
Nearly all apps will work, but the real cause for concern is banking apps.
You can get around that by flashing a custom rom, rooting it with something like Magisk, and then using Play Integrity Fix, but it's not one click and done, its just a few more steps.
With that said, OxygenOS, while not as lightweight as it used to be, is still a fantastic android rom.
I personally root + flash a custom rom the moment I get a new phone. LOS is pretty good compared to most stocks: Better performance, battery use, support, less bloat. Of course then I need to play games to make apps that hate rooted/custom ROMs work, but I gladly pay that price.