35 votes

Why everyone is suddenly in a ‘very Chinese time’ in their lives

39 comments

  1. [21]
    ColorUserPro
    Link
    I think it's rather on brand for the publishers of the article (not to say its incorrect) to put the Chinese cultural focus in a consumerist lens, while I view it from a more historical viewpoint...

    I think it's rather on brand for the publishers of the article (not to say its incorrect) to put the Chinese cultural focus in a consumerist lens, while I view it from a more historical viewpoint that I feel the author alludes to without directly acknowledging: The Century of Humiliation, the dissolution of a strong national identity derived from the status quo.

    I think it's fair to say America's status as the steadying hand in global affairs is waning, and the actions it's taken in the past century to excite and incite destabilizing movements adjacent to its interests has solidified a critical mass of supporters to galvanize China to take up the reins as the deal broker, the industrial powerhouse, the purpose-driven collective that's able to do things now that it may not have been able to thirty years ago and that the collective action of the contemporary blocs around the world are having difficulty matching, much less improving upon, with the internal divisions that can complicate state agendas.

    In my mind, many Americans see how China is becoming what America has tried to maintain the image of itself as, coupled with the turmoil, instability, and downright failures of American politics, both foreign and domestic, and have embraced the feelings of national dysphoria the Century of Humiliation embodied, using China's lived experience of ending that period within itself coupled with everything it has brought to Western markets and culture to strengthen their connection to the only other superpower worth treating as an equal in capacity.

    There are too many points of contention I have with both countries sitting under the surface of this for me to mention or elaborate on, especially online, but it's an interesting thought process I've seen people around me describe that I felt was relevant to the topic at hand.

    32 votes
    1. [15]
      kingofsnake
      Link Parent
      The best editorial I read last week was titled "What if they're both assholes?" and spoke about Canada's between a rock and a hard place trade options. I'm happy to look to China, but let's (I...

      The best editorial I read last week was titled "What if they're both assholes?" and spoke about Canada's between a rock and a hard place trade options.

      I'm happy to look to China, but let's (I mean this broadly) put the brakes on an all out glow-up. They're bastards like the US are bastards.

      Let's remember that.

      39 votes
      1. [2]
        chocobean
        Link Parent
        Thank you. The only reason China is ever slightly less bad for us right now is that they're busy with trying to claim Taiwan, and there's a whole dang ocean between us. I don't like carney for a...

        Thank you. The only reason China is ever slightly less bad for us right now is that they're busy with trying to claim Taiwan, and there's a whole dang ocean between us. I don't like carney for a lot of reasons, but I do see that he's making diversifying efforts both towards EU and China, which is what we need right now, being up against America.

        20 votes
        1. uvt
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          We are cooked either way if the US decides to claims Greenland or if China decides to claim Taiwan.

          We are cooked either way if the US decides to claims Greenland or if China decides to claim Taiwan.

          1 vote
      2. [3]
        shrike
        Link Parent
        Someone said it well: Canada chose Lawful Evil instead of Chaotic Evil. Both are evil, but at least China is predictable, they don't do foreign policy via social media posts on a whim or due to...

        Someone said it well: Canada chose Lawful Evil instead of Chaotic Evil.

        Both are evil, but at least China is predictable, they don't do foreign policy via social media posts on a whim or due to personal vendettas.

        10 votes
        1. chocobean
          Link Parent
          Ehhh, at best I would put them as neutral evil. There's plenty of unlawful things they're doing, but that's just how far American has fallen, that China making up excuses and making official...

          Ehhh, at best I would put them as neutral evil. There's plenty of unlawful things they're doing, but that's just how far American has fallen, that China making up excuses and making official announcements with excuses sound like normal politics these days.

          7 votes
      3. [9]
        qob
        Link Parent
        The thing is, it's much, much more difficult to collaborate with a bastard that is completely insane and not embarrassed to show it. You can probably count the countries that wouldn't become...

        The thing is, it's much, much more difficult to collaborate with a bastard that is completely insane and not embarrassed to show it.

        You can probably count the countries that wouldn't become bastards if they had world police powers on a single finger. It's always been like that. Power corrupts. At least for now China wants to do business, which is something you can work with, and not lick the boots of its newfound dear leader.

        If the US empire could speed up its decline, maybe China could even be persuaded to leave Taiwan alone. Without the threat of the US navy right on their door step, the downsides of a war could outweigh the benefits.

        4 votes
        1. [3]
          gary
          Link Parent
          Japan mentioned that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan might end up causing Japan to be drawn into a war, this is a security issue, and China is now withholding rare earth metals from Japan. This...

          Japan mentioned that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan might end up causing Japan to be drawn into a war, this is a security issue, and China is now withholding rare earth metals from Japan. This threatens to crush entire industries. This happened in the early 2010s too. Or that time when Sweden didn't turn over a Chinese dissident to the Chinese government, so China quietly stopped issuing export licenses of graphene to a Swedish battery company, shuttering its doors. One way or another, if you want to do business with the Chinese, you'll need to bend to their politics eventually.

          18 votes
          1. qob
            Link Parent
            Unless you are looking for violence you need to regard the (real or imagined) needs of anyone you interact with in any way. This is true on every level, from personal human-to-human to...

            Unless you are looking for violence you need to regard the (real or imagined) needs of anyone you interact with in any way. This is true on every level, from personal human-to-human to international diplomacy.

            The current US administration thinks they can do whatever they want because they don't care if things go violent. Some in the regime would probably even welcome a war because wars give you more authoritarian power over your population and you can funnel money into your own pockets more easily.

            China is not looking for a war. That may change in the future (they are massively investing in their navy and may be less hesitant to use it when they can face the US navy head on), but for the forseeable future, you can do regular, boring diplomacy with them, which is impossible with the Trump administration.

            9 votes
          2. mordae
            Link Parent
            Same with US, though. Ideally one would have sufficient diversity in trade partners and their own production capacity to be able to actually negotiate.

            Same with US, though. Ideally one would have sufficient diversity in trade partners and their own production capacity to be able to actually negotiate.

            4 votes
        2. [4]
          chocobean
          Link Parent
          Agree on every except Taiwan. Xi Jinping wants Taiwan reunification so so much more than trump wants Greenland south America manifest destiny. It's laser focused item on legacy. Xi might be...

          Agree on every except Taiwan. Xi Jinping wants Taiwan reunification so so much more than trump wants Greenland south America manifest destiny. It's laser focused item on legacy. Xi might be holding off because (1) he still feels young and healthy, that's all (2) he's not yet confident he can do it because it'll put his entire ruling legacy on the line for it.

          6 votes
          1. [3]
            qob
            Link Parent
            But why does he want it? Feel free to school me, but as far as I know, a major reason is that Taiwan is so close to the US, and he doesn't want the US military right in front of the heart of...

            But why does he want it? Feel free to school me, but as far as I know, a major reason is that Taiwan is so close to the US, and he doesn't want the US military right in front of the heart of Chinese business hubs.

            It's basically like the US/Cuba situation during the cold war, except that China didn't have the means to put pressure on US/Taiwan in the same way the US could on SU/Cuba.

            1 vote
            1. papasquat
              Link Parent
              Probably because it's the last piece remaining that prevents the CCP from claiming a total victory in the chinese communist revolution. The ROC and the PRC are still technically at war. A peace...

              Probably because it's the last piece remaining that prevents the CCP from claiming a total victory in the chinese communist revolution. The ROC and the PRC are still technically at war. A peace has never been negotiated or signed. As long as Taiwan remains a separate country, it's a blemish on the Chinese communist party.

              Taking Taiwan would cement Xi in history as the Chinese leader that finally unified the country under communism.

              There are massive economic reasons as well of course, but I don't think those are the main drivers.

              7 votes
            2. Fal
              Link Parent
              There's a wide variety of geostrategic, economic, and perhaps even Xi Jinping's personal considerations, but one key reason for the CCP's desire to take Taiwan has to do with the very foundations...

              There's a wide variety of geostrategic, economic, and perhaps even Xi Jinping's personal considerations, but one key reason for the CCP's desire to take Taiwan has to do with the very foundations of the Party's right to rule. The CCP's legitimacy, going as far back as Mao and continuing through to Xi today, has been built in part off the idea that the Party is the only Chinese institution that was capable of undoing the trauma of the Century of Humiliation, and bringing China into the modern age as a great power. This includes stuff like fighting and winning against the Japanese, retaking Hong Kong and Macau from the Western powers, reasserting control of the periphery territories like Tibet and Xinjing, etc. Given this, Taiwanese independence is something of an ideological threat to the legitimacy of the CCP, as it undermines this narrative.

              7 votes
        3. kingofsnake
          Link Parent
          Here's hoping. I'm just worried about the crazy country with the biggest military doing something stupid, or the gap its inaction will leave for bad actors to begin grabbing territory willy nilly.

          Here's hoping. I'm just worried about the crazy country with the biggest military doing something stupid, or the gap its inaction will leave for bad actors to begin grabbing territory willy nilly.

          2 votes
    2. [4]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      Even now that the Trump administration is doing its best to tear apart US alliances, Russia's alliances are nowhere near as good as US alliances. That's because it's hard to build alliances when...

      Even now that the Trump administration is doing its best to tear apart US alliances, Russia's alliances are nowhere near as good as US alliances. That's because it's hard to build alliances when your neighbors are afraid you're going to invade. China's neighbors seem similarly wary?

      [...] a critical mass of supporters to galvanize China to take up the reins as the deal broker, the industrial powerhouse, the purpose-driven collective that's able to do things now [...]

      This seems like a luxury belief that can only be workable in countries far away from China.

      But I think this article is more about people being interested in Chinese culture.

      16 votes
      1. [3]
        unkz
        Link Parent
        It is about Chinese cultural appreciation, but how did that happen? I’d argue that China is actively developing the kind of soft power that America is currently discarding, and this is a primarily...

        It is about Chinese cultural appreciation, but how did that happen? I’d argue that China is actively developing the kind of soft power that America is currently discarding, and this is a primarily politically originated phenomenon.

        19 votes
        1. [2]
          skybrian
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I think cultural diffusion happens when people actually enjoy cultural products. It’s possible to do that deliberarely. For example, pad thai’s popularity was the result of a government project.

          I think cultural diffusion happens when people actually enjoy cultural products. It’s possible to do that deliberarely. For example, pad thai’s popularity was the result of a government project.

          8 votes
          1. okiyama
            Link Parent
            Labubus nowadays, the first global cultural takeover with 100% China grown IP. Other commenter is right about soft power, China runs better than America. Our shipping yards are run by boomer...

            Labubus nowadays, the first global cultural takeover with 100% China grown IP. Other commenter is right about soft power, China runs better than America. Our shipping yards are run by boomer unions that hate automation, their entire supply chain is autonomous robots top to bottom.

            In the my lifetime term that shift I don't see going away, China is likely to be the go to for data centers and whatever else the world needs right now, not filtered through the piles of racism that has knee capped the US since we started closing the borders in the 1910s and 20s.

            3 votes
    3. chocobean
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      To edit a Futurama quote: Americans do not yet know the meaning of humiliation. Everyday Americans have no idea what international cooperation can achieve when it's about carving out someone...

      To edit a Futurama quote: Americans do not yet know the meaning of humiliation.

      The shock to the Chinese worldview cannot be overestimated. Historically, China had sat comfortably at the center of a ring of tributary relationships with its neighboring countries. Its rulers had limited familiarity with any civilization outside of Asia, and in their few contacts with Westerners had made clear that they expected the same deference from far-away leaders as they did from those on their periphery. Now, in the space of a little over a century, China suffered a long list of political, military, and cultural indignities [...]

      Everyday Americans have no idea what international cooperation can achieve when it's about carving out someone else's country. In today's case, we are only staring to see financial hedging, and still heavy outward appearances of appeasement. Remember that before the hudread years was some of the best international trading years the world has ever known: everyone was buying everything Chinese and China didn't buy nothing from nobody: gold and silver only. Then the Qing government decided to close up the ports and do its own thing. Then heavy mismanagement and squandered opportunities and being left behind technologically (poor education) and famines and rebellions. The gunboats, like scavengers only came after the prey couldn't keep up with the flock and lay down.

      Edit: there's still a ton of time to turn some things around of course. But the days of quietly sitting in the centre of the world waiting for tributes to flow in is over.

      16 votes
  2. [2]
    Eji1700
    Link
    "Why suddenly everyone is raising Digimon/dabbing on the haters/linking you to rick asterly/feeding their neo pet/talking about narwhals" is roughly how this reads to me. It's just...weird that we...

    "Why suddenly everyone is raising Digimon/dabbing on the haters/linking you to rick asterly/feeding their neo pet/talking about narwhals" is roughly how this reads to me. It's just...weird that we treat these obvious flash in the pan trends reinforced by influencers and marketing as some larger and deep comment on society.

    It feels engineered and I'd suspect it is honestly. We've made politics even more a part of these trends and it muddies everything.

    22 votes
    1. skybrian
      Link Parent
      I see it as more of a fun article. Nothing too deep, really.

      I see it as more of a fun article. Nothing too deep, really.

      9 votes
  3. patience_limited
    Link
    You could equally well argue that Americans are at a very European time in their lives, or a very Socialist, or a very Nationalist, or a very Fascist, or a very Christian, or a very...

    You could equally well argue that Americans are at a very European time in their lives, or a very Socialist, or a very Nationalist, or a very Fascist, or a very Christian, or a very retro-Traditionalist time in their lives...

    We're thrashing for alternatives to hypercapitalist hyperindividualism, destroyed state capacity, narrowing opportunities, social isolation fostered by algorithmic engagement plus the loss of public spaces/services, and the sense that every important aspect of our lives has been reduced to lies and extraction.

    19 votes
  4. [13]
    skybrian
    Link
    https://archive.is/tDSQP From the article: [...] [...] [...]

    https://archive.is/tDSQP

    From the article:

    In case you didn’t get the memo, everyone is feeling very Chinese these days. Across social media, people are proclaiming that “You met me at a very Chinese time of my life,” while performing stereotypically Chinese-coded activities like eating dim sum or wearing the viral Adidas Chinese jacket. The trend blew up so much in recent weeks that celebrities like comedian Jimmy O Yang and influencer Hasan Piker even got in on it. It has now evolved into variations like “Chinamaxxing” (acting increasingly more Chinese) and “u will turn Chinese tomorrow” (a kind of affirmation or blessing).

    [...]

    As is often the case with Western narratives about China, these memes are not really meant to paint an accurate picture of life in the country. Instead, they function as a projection of “all of the undesirable aspects of American life—or the decay of the American dream,” says Tianyu Fang, a PhD researcher at Harvard who studies science and technology in China.

    [...]

    Part of why China is on everyone’s mind is that it’s become totally unavoidable. No matter where you live in the world, you are likely going to be surrounded by things made in China. Here at WIRED, we’ve been documenting that exhaustively: Your phone or laptop or robot vacuum is made in China; your favorite AI slop joke is made in China; Labubu, the world’s most coveted toy, is made in China; the solar panels powering the Global South are made in China; the world’s best-selling EV brand, which officially overtook Tesla last year, is made in China. Even the most-talked about open-source AI model is from China. All of these examples are why this newsletter is called Made in China.

    [...]

    For the most part, this is a fun and innocuous trend, often interpreted as a show of admiration for China and Chinese culture. That’s why some Chinese or Chinese diaspora creators have joined in on the meme, telling their followers yes, you are Chinese if you enjoy hot pot. Chinese artists have also rode the viral wave by producing art that is “Orientalism chic,” a term coined by the culture writer Patrick Kho. By repackaging orientalist tropes with better taste and a light dose of identity politics, they can meet Western audiences where they are, without fully surrendering to familiar caricatures.

    10 votes
    1. [12]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      I had not seen this trend knowingly, but I have seen a single Chinese (American? Canadian?) creator explaining why "since you're Chinese now" we should drink warm, not cold water. Hadn't really...

      I had not seen this trend knowingly, but I have seen a single Chinese (American? Canadian?) creator explaining why "since you're Chinese now" we should drink warm, not cold water. Hadn't really engaged or paid attention much past that though she'd popped up a few times. but it makes more sense in context.

      Other than that one line it wasn't odd, as my feed is pretty diverse. I just assumed I'd missed a bit that she was doing not something widespread. I still prefer cold water though so I assumed I was disqualified.

      8 votes
      1. [11]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        It's my vague impression that Ice-cold beverages everywhere are a specifically American thing. Do other countries put ice in drinks by default? Perhaps it made more sense before air conditioning....

        It's my vague impression that Ice-cold beverages everywhere are a specifically American thing. Do other countries put ice in drinks by default? Perhaps it made more sense before air conditioning.

        I usually ask for no ice.

        5 votes
        1. [7]
          sparksbet
          Link Parent
          Americans (and maybe Canadians too idk) do go way harder when it comes to adding ice to drinks, but chilled beverages are common throughout the world and a glass with ice will often accompany a...

          Americans (and maybe Canadians too idk) do go way harder when it comes to adding ice to drinks, but chilled beverages are common throughout the world and a glass with ice will often accompany a soda at a restaurant here in Europe. Americans are ice-crazy compared to Europeans, but drinking hot water as is relatively common in China is not really a thing here.

          Afaik the focus on hot drinks has its roots in traditional Chinese medicine, there's a bunch of important stuff relating to temperature there (both literal temperature as well as certain foods being assigned "hot" or "cold"). My ABC roommate wouldn't eat ice cream whle on her period, for instance, and the Chinese would be horrified to discover we give pregnant women ice chips while they're in labor. That said, when I was in Shanghai, there were still plenty of chilled and iced beverages available, so it's hardly a hard and fast thing. Bubble tea is not only usually served with ice but any decent place lets you specify how much you want, for instance!

          Air-conditioning is much rarer in Europe than in either the US or China, fwiw, so I don't think a preference for not having ice in drinks can be attributed to that. It's strictly cultural imo -- I've seen plenty of Germans order a hot cappuccino on a sweltering summer's day when sitting outside at a cafe. Iced lattes have only recently begun catching on here in Berlin, though the more traditional Eiskaffee (filter coffee poured over ice cream like a coffee float) has been around for ages and is phenomenal when it's hot out. Unlike in the US though, you will get weird looks and judgement trying to order Eiskaffee or other iced coffee drinks during cold weather unless the area you're in is pretty cosmopolitan.

          8 votes
          1. [4]
            maple
            Link Parent
            Oh my god, this is my first time hearing about this, and now I must try it! Thank you!

            Eiskaffee

            Oh my god, this is my first time hearing about this, and now I must try it! Thank you!

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              sparksbet
              Link Parent
              I've only ever gotten it at cafés, so I can't speak to any specific tricks to making one, but it definitely hits the sweet spot in summer. The quality of the ice cream itself makes a big...

              I've only ever gotten it at cafés, so I can't speak to any specific tricks to making one, but it definitely hits the sweet spot in summer. The quality of the ice cream itself makes a big difference, but I'm not sure if the quality of the coffee does -- I've only gotten them at ice cream places where I don't expect anything fancy with the coffee. Maybe someday James Hoffman will run out of other ideas and test this one...

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                IarwainBenAdar
                Link Parent
                In America we have the affogato, which is ice cream and espresso. It’s become a trendy thing for coffee shops to have gelato and ice cream, so you can get some amazing quality. If you mix the...

                In America we have the affogato, which is ice cream and espresso. It’s become a trendy thing for coffee shops to have gelato and ice cream, so you can get some amazing quality. If you mix the affogato together it gets a thick milkshake like consistency. I feel like it would be a bit harder to get the consistency right with regular coffee, but would definitely be easier to make.

                3 votes
                1. sparksbet
                  Link Parent
                  I've had an affogato before at a fancy coffee place that was doing an ice cream partnership and loved it, but Eiskaffee is a different experience for sure and is very different texture-wise. It's...

                  I've had an affogato before at a fancy coffee place that was doing an ice cream partnership and loved it, but Eiskaffee is a different experience for sure and is very different texture-wise. It's definitely a drink in a way the affogato isn't imo, and it's thinner even than a milkshake. My closest comparison would be a root beer float, except the rootbeer is subbed with coffee. Sometimes whipped cream is added and it gets served with one of those little crunchy italian amaretto cookies they give you with cappuccinos. I don't know how they usually brew the coffee for Eiskaffee, but I know from feel that it's at least close to filter coffee rather than being espresso, so I suspect using drip coffee would work for it.

                  Once when I was a student I had a bunch of cheap ice cream that I didn't like so I just used it instead of cream and sugar in my coffee for a while. Not enough quantity to be an Eiskaffee, but it worked surprisingly decently.

                  2 votes
          2. [2]
            dirthawker
            Link Parent
            I remember being in a Vietnamese restaurant (in the US) and a white customer insisting that his refrigerator-cold beverage also needed ice. As in, almost yelling "I want it ice cold, I mean ICE...

            I remember being in a Vietnamese restaurant (in the US) and a white customer insisting that his refrigerator-cold beverage also needed ice. As in, almost yelling "I want it ice cold, I mean ICE COLD". The servers exchanged looks like "this guy is bonkers," but gave him his ice.

            3 votes
            1. sparksbet
              Link Parent
              lol this is so bizarre to me but some people take it seriously ig!

              lol this is so bizarre to me but some people take it seriously ig!

              1 vote
        2. DefinitelyNotAFae
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I have no idea, I just prefer my water cold. But I (and the creator) wasn't referring to drinking room temperature water but warm to hot water. It's Traditional Chinese Medicine that warm/hot...

          I have no idea, I just prefer my water cold.

          But I (and the creator) wasn't referring to drinking room temperature water but warm to hot water. It's Traditional Chinese Medicine that warm/hot water aids digestion and balances your yang, expelling humidity from the body.

          So the ice thing is unrelated other than it being my personal preference. Perhaps I have too much yin due to it.

          5 votes
        3. [2]
          Narry
          Link Parent
          As a US American, I get all my fountain drinks "no ice" because I'm paying $3 for a soda, not somewhat Diet Dr. Pepper-flavored water that I can't even drink for another 7 hours because the ice...

          As a US American, I get all my fountain drinks "no ice" because I'm paying $3 for a soda, not somewhat Diet Dr. Pepper-flavored water that I can't even drink for another 7 hours because the ice takes forever to fully melt since half the restaurants in Texas still serve them in polystyrene cups. I'm thirsty NOW.

          But aside from that, I drink my bottled water room temperature. Bottled because the stuff from the tap even after a filter gives me terrible godawful heartburn so something must be wrong with it, or something. I'm not sure, I just don't like the "sip water, godawful heartburn" meta.

          1 vote
          1. steezyaspie
            Link Parent
            Getting your tap water tested at a local lab is pretty affordable, and it’s well worth it to know what’s in your water so that you can mitigate any issues.

            Getting your tap water tested at a local lab is pretty affordable, and it’s well worth it to know what’s in your water so that you can mitigate any issues.

            2 votes
  5. uvt
    Link
    I’m in a very Canadian time in my life.

    I’m in a very Canadian time in my life.

    2 votes
  6. carrotflowerr
    Link
    I could very easily see people being at a "very Muslim time in my life" in a year or two.

    I could very easily see people being at a "very Muslim time in my life" in a year or two.

    1 vote