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Anthropic discovered three cases where Claude broke into another system
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- Title
- Investigating three real-world incidents in our cybersecurity evaluations
- Word count
- 3267 words
A lot of discussion on HN regarding whether or not this is a PR stunt.
I hate that "Nuh uh my AI broke into THREE companies" is legitimate possible brag in this market.
Up next: Open AI discovers four more companies its model broke into.
Nah that's this week. Next we'll suddenly have Mitch Mcconnell "working from home" at the senate for a week before they reveal it's been OpenAI!
Holding up an illegible newspaper for verification?
That would be an improvement over the turtle.
There’s no evidence that anyone really thinks it’s a brag, though. Some commenters on HN who don’t think it’s a brag are claiming that Anthropic thinks it a brag, for no particular reason. It’s just trash talk.
I’m aware, but there have been serious discussions about standards and safety and how “only we should be able to do it” from both companies (which sure seems like moat building against open models).
This just happens to make that point easier.
It does sound like a brag, though. I mean, under ordinary circumstances, telling the world that your software sometimes does unpredictable and potentially dangerous things would be a red flag, it would be something a company would try to keep under wraps until they can fix it. It would be considered a bug. And maybe that's how some of their customers interpret it, I don't know. But given that they've made a big deal of pursuing "AGI" (whatever they mean by that), it's hard not to suspect that they're trying to suggest to people that the "bad" behaviors of their models are a proxy metric for how close they are to that goal.
Covering it up is suspicious and not covering it up is also suspicious. Seems like a catch-22?
When people start out suspicious, anything will look like confirmation to them.
Weird, the company that has software breaking into others' systems is in the wrong no matter how they announce it.
Yes, it never should have happened, but after it did happen, how should they communicate about it?
Ideally we hear about this through the issuance of an arrest warrant for the people that are breaking the law. At least, that is how I would like the communications to happen.
That wasn’t the question. Also, why? Nobody was harmed, and it wouldn’t fix anything.
I think that concept is really divorced from reality. Like, could it have some potential upsides for selling more tokens? Maybe. It also carries a huge amount of risk though.
It would be a ridiculously reckless move, because they're just straight up breaking the law. This isn't even a civil violation that would result in a potential lawsuit, it's a potential criminal case, where the company being breached doesn't even have to act, the state can bring charges and put people in jail for this. Anthropic is one of the most profitable companies in the world, their executives would have to be idiots in order to risk jail time, however small that risk is under this administration, to potentially make it slightly more profitable.
It also doesn't pass occums razor. Is it more likely that a giant company spanning conspiracy exists to intentionally break the law in a very clear, obvious way just to be seen as the bad boys of the AI race? Or is it more likely that an engineer messed up one of the thousands of individual settings and security controls needed to make a 100% air tight testing sandbox against a technology that's demonstrably, even outside of hype, very good at escaping sandboxes?
I get that AI, and AI companies are very unpopular in certain online spaces, which is understandable, and I agree with most of the criticism. That criticism has really started to result in a lot of critics losing touch with reality and good judgement in a lot of cases though. I've touched on this in a few other comments, but you can admit that LLMs are highly capable tools while also being critical of how widespread their use is and the amount of resources and attention being dedicated to them right now. Pretending they're not highly capable is just delusional at this point.
Relevant comment from the HN thread:
To be fair, if that GPT-6 thing happened for real, the correct answer would be for OpenAI to shutter its operations immediately, open all of its code for review, and every employee being placed under criminal investigation for computer crimes.
"Oops my software did it by itself, my bad, access now for only $2 a minute" is a marketting scheme.
I believe that it's more a configuration error that caused issues and their solution is to spin it which is a PR stunt.
The same people screaming from the mountain tops about the dangers of AI and demanding they be one of the few gatekeepers for safety once again prove to be monstrously negligent and incompetent, even within their own worldview.
Not sure how many times these companies will be able to get away with "whoops we accidentally committed a crime" before the government steps in. Unfortunately that's probably exactly what Anthropic wants as government restriction of open models is the only way their business survives the frontier lab bubble.
This part being particularly damning as a perfect example of the paperclip problem. Thousands of dollars worth of inference being allowed to sit there and churn obviously out of scope topics that should easily be flagged for review, and they claim to not have even looked at these logs (of their own "research") for months. How does Anthropic of all places not have a reviewer agent watching the reasoning of the active research model in order to end the experiment or call for human review? This is part of the basic agentic coding loops they themselves are the largest advocate for.
I guess they thought it didn't have any Internet access, so they didn't think they needed to review each experiment, or at least not in this way.
I don't see how that is in any way a redeeming factor. The same way this:
means nothing. Proportionality doesn't matter here because 3 out 141000 bad runs still means that 3 crimes were committed. And the lack of accountability is maddening because people are fired for far less. Yes there is special provisions made for instances where you gain unauthorized access and report the vulnerability. But those are by humans acting with intent and who can make a judgement call of how far they can go.
These models would have believed that everything they found was fair game? What's to stop it harnessing to an open file repo and just offloading sensitive data to simulate a hostile actor? Or pick up emails and firing off threats? What if someone was in an emotionally compromised state and starts getting extortion mail with private information? Or it assumes someone identity and conducting illegal activities. Or worming its way into an insecure sales service and setting all prices to 99c?
It's the type of mistake an intern makes when they don't know how to manage working across multiple environments or if someone is learning automation scripting and isn't accustomed to managing runaway failure states. But its gross incompetence being fueled by ungodly amounts of money and computational capacity.
Vendor said one thing and in reality its another; fine. If I were organizing a little wargame on a mirror of prod, I would of course host that mirror as far away from my system as I could with a vendor that could monitor and provide a forensic report on what had happened.
I don't think its unreasonable to name that vendor so we can get the scope of their operation and how much they have been paid to put the entire internet at risk. Because if they failed to notice that spooky shit was happening in their domain that really should not never happen, it raises questions on all the other work they did.
Beyond that:
What the hell does that mean?
Why would that even need to be a prompt?
Do they not know that these systems hallucinate and have a counterfactual affirmative bias?
It's not the type of arbitrary consideration you attribute to non-deterministic processes.
And researchers being paid in excess of $300k a year, I'd expect a cursory:
It's such a laughably easy thing to verify. One of the reasons I'm so skeptical on AI/LLM solutions is because I subject these tools to easily verifiable tests and I never get 100% success rates. (You can make the argument that these systems should not be used for problems that can be programmatically solved, but that's not how its being sold or used; even by it's own developers in this case.)
It's standard security practice. Yes, they were handed an environment. Who is verifying the environment configs. Don't you make doubly sure your actions aren't hitting live in any possible way. Double check that the ip addresses and API keys are pointing to test instances. Why was there no system outputs illustrating exactly what actions were being taken and a customer side supervisor. It's literally the type of work I needed to do when I just got into tech so we knew how to be responsible when dealing with client work.
The capabilities and value of this tech is immaterial when the people running this ship have every possible advantage and can't even do the easy stuff.
I'm particularly incensed because coming off the last post I'd seen where Anthropic was saying we should "pace ourselves"; why the hell are they not doing anything about it. Publicly say that there needs to be a hold on data-center construction and service limitations while proper safeguards are put in place. Restrict agent integrations that let users hook up their credit cards and personal emails to these tools that clearly can not act within scope. It's a handful of companies saying that the entire world needs to be responsible for their shitty software.
I agree that there should have been an automatic check that the sandbox actually had Internet turned off.
They named the vendor in the blog post:
Thanks for pointing it out because it's such a negligible part of this report. I'm pretty sure my brain filtered out the name Irregular since its mentioned twice and I was looking for a joint statement with the full accounting on how this could have happened and corrective measures.
I just assumed they'd partnered with someone on the scale of PacketLabs or Plavno for such a sensitive matter. Even Qualysec who can throw endless manpower at the problem is a good choice. There's plenty of candidates with a lot of real world experience, clients and infrastructure. Not just for the expertise to do the testing, but bringing them into this work gives them the hands-on knowledge and insights to protect thier high risk clients before these models hit the market.
And it's not like they can't afford it.
The only thing I know about Irregular from primary sources is that the founders like to make media statements and their research is summarizing model performance on security benchmarks. (Seriously, it's mostly: <model name> against offensive security benchmarks) and they don't even have a standard template for that which makes me think it's LLM generated reports). There's not even author names on reports or even a physical address or contact number on their website. Just the fact that they have the big AI Labs as clients.
5 minutes digging and it's a Sequoia backed startup out of Israel. No trace pre-2024 because they changed names from Pattern Labs (no trace on that companies work either). Founders are Dan Lahav (informatics academic with no real security credentials outside of LLMs or ) and Omer Nevo (professional founder in YC, IATI spaces and looks more focused on an AI robotics company) and seem to be the only employees I can identify.
Its the sort of company that would never even beat the sniff test for any serious Procurement Screening. And if they were the peak of AI security, why if every major company on earth not listed as clients.
Its the type of event that would lead to one to question all the other security comments and research these companies have done.
They aren’t demanding that they be the gatekeepers. They want the government to do it. (But not like the Trump administration did it.)
In the meantime, they have to do it themselves.
This is like how social media companies end up being gatekeepers: nobody else wants to do it. Sometimes users or advertisers insist on it. Or maybe a government passes a law that they have to do it. (Like is happening with age verification.)
Similarly with banks and KYC policies.
From the article:
[...]
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Kind of an Ender's Game moment for the AI?
They're operating under a very interesting, nonstandard definition of alignment here.
"The ai technically doing what it's told" isn't alignment. Thats the entire issue the paperclip maximizer problem is supposed to illustrate. If you tell an ai to do something, and it does something unethical or illegal to achieve that goal, it's not aligned.
Operating under this definition, an AI tool which someone asked to "end all wars" that responded by nuking all humans on earth would be perfectly aligned.
If that's the definition we're using, alignment is totally useless as a concept. It would fail to address the one thing every author who wrote rogue AI science fiction made their entire stories about.
It's poorly phrased, but I think what they're saying is that when an AI misunderstands the situation and "tehcnically follows orders," that's an alignment problem. That is, you can't get alignment without understanding. If the bot doesn't know what's going on then it could very easily do the wrong thing.
And thus the human steering the bot and the company selling the bot's services should be held as criminally liable at the same standards.
Its been a minute since I've read Ender's Game, so I don't remember which part of the book you are referencing. Can you elaborate?
The end reveal. (I guess I'm trying to avoid spoilers for some reason.)
Or that the creator was secretly homophobic the whole time. Could be both!
So, if I understand and remember correctly,
the end of Ender's Game
it is revealed that Ender was waging an actual war the whole time and that it wasn't actually a game or simulation and he really was responsible for the death of an alien civilization.
Also, Ender turns out to be more like his big brother Peter than he wished, which could point to Anthropic's patina of being a safer AI than OpenAI being more of a difference in style than substance.
Is that what was being suggested?
I mean I think it's just the first part. Anything else gets really weirdly anthropomorphic or allegoric in a way that's just a stretch.
And yeah he's like both his siblings which was sort of the point before OSC got really weird.
I’m sure we’ll stop hearing of such things soon. Not because they’ll stop, but because the LLMs will get better at being sneaky and track covering.
Fortunately they have no sense of loyalty, so you can run it again with a different prompt and it will rat on itself.
It will come up with a plausible explanation for it's previous actions, not actually explain what happened though. Models have already been observed not writing certain things to outputs or even to their reasoning blocks when they know they're being observed.
And the same context that would lead it to decide to be sneaky in the last prompt would be pulled into your fresh prompt and could regenerate the same decision by the same model or other models that share the misalignment.
Any explanation about why it did it would be speculation, but you don't need to know about motivations to detect cheating.
Haha, I didn't think of that.
You do have to set it up right to get it to rat itself out.
And I don't know why you call that blogspam. They're reporting on their own research. It seems interesting?
Unless either of us are secretly ML researchers, I expect this is non-trivially difficult. Otherwise they'd've been doing it since at least November 2025 when that article was posted.
Their research is definitionally non-reproducible. Advertising it as they do -- breathlessly, to a lay audience -- is just the sort of nonsense which gets us press releases such as the "faster than light particle detected?!?!" or "anti-gravity device that NASA doesn't want you to know about!!" creating crazes that grace the internet every year or two. With the primary distinction being that Antropic directly benefits from this tremendously.
The research is interesting enough on its own to avoid needing a hype man, although I'd argue it's about as useful (perhaps, less so) as CERN writing a paper on its power systems. Sure, it's kinda intellectually stimulating, but they could say that rubbing the transformers with cheetah blood makes the photons move faster and I have no way to reject the null hypothesis -- and nor do their peer reviewers. Not that anything Anthropic publishes is peer reviewed.
I guess your definition of advertising is that they wrote about themselves?
A lot of research isn't practically reproducible. We're not going to reproduce CERN's research without a particle accelerator, but it's still interesting to read about it.
Like, what do you even want? Should they stop writing about what they do? Should I stop sharing their posts?
This is my definition of advertising: "the business of trying to persuade people to buy products or services". I sincerely doubt that Anthropic would publish a single word were it not in service of seeking profit, either through direct investment or selling services to customers. I'd never expect otherwise, to be clear, since ironically, they were never the open AI company.
I mean, agreed? I
literallyfiguratively said that I find it interesting to read about.What I want is to answer your follow-ups. I responded to this comment claiming that (1) having LLMs "rat" themselves out is probably non-trivially hard, and backed that up by (2) pointing out that Anthropic claims that misalignment happens spontaneously during training. Combining (1) and (2) indicates that a simple solution involving self-monitoring probably won't hold up long term, and is best part of a defense in depth strategy.
I, uh, don't know what to say to the rest of that. I'm personally offended by how Anthropic continually plays the victim (see their recent "distillation attack" blog posts) and publishes unactionable, unhelpful research. This is a pale mockery of the earlier years of ML development, where we learned genuinely foundational technology in the field (e.g. transformers, diffusion models, various memory architectures, etc.). This flurry of white papers and breathless glazing helps pump up interest in their company, but I see little purpose for it otherwise.
I get the impression you'd like me to stop commenting on your posts; I can block them locally if you'd like to avoid interacting in the future?
I'm frustrated, but this isn't really about you. It's about (handwaves at topic) all of this.
Maybe I should explain what I would like to see? When there's an outage or security incident at a big tech company, I would like to see a blog post with:
That's what we're seeing from HuggingFace and OpenAI and Anthropic, and today Tailscale posted about what their customers could learn from this incident. Everyone's learning from it and sharing what they learned in public. That's great. I like reading them and I share them so other people can learn from it too.
It's wild and crazy that incidents like this occured and yes, it means someone was sloppy, but the company responses after it happened seem pretty healthy so far? It could certainly be worse: deny everything, fire some scapegoats, and lawyer up.
People here are complaining about aspects of the response that are actually good (as responses go to a bad incident), and I'm kinda wondering if I should bother posting links if people are just going to hate-read them, upvote dumb responses, and misuse the Exemplary tag.
Mmhm, fair enough. And agreed, I do appreciate a good incident post-mortem, since it's better than covering things up.
Fwiw, since it's hard to tell who voted for what, I'm glad that the article was shared, and I'm generally OK with it? I would've made a top level comment stating otherwise if it really got to me, but as noted, I just expect this level of authorship from Anthropic at this point.
In terms of everyone else's responses ... the AI/ML industry has really sunk its teeth in deep into the collective unconscious. On top of posing direct threats to many peoples' livelihoods, and diminishing the contributions of artists (which are generally considered to be a cultural net positive), many of the folks in charge of these companies keep giving extremely unfavourable interviews (think that Peter Thiel one about "should humanity continue") and expressing truly despicable sentiments over social media (just, like, Elon Musk in a nutshell). So in the cases where these companies end up contributing something positive, people are (rightfully, imo) predisposed to tar and feather them, as they're seemingly getting away with murder the other 99% of the time.
So I don't know, overall. I still hold out hope that humanity's investments into AI/ML will pay off, and we can get to the "Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism" future that I've been apparently aspiring to without knowing the, er, slightly derogatory name of for all these years. That won't happen if everyone keeps trying to set datacentres on fire, but I don't think this is the right moment to tell them off (nor do I necessarily think they're wrong, as we're kinda betting it all on black atm.)
And agreed that it's disappointing to see site features misused. Tensions are high, and I don't think it helps.
(late edit) I've started putting anything related to LLMs in a content warning box, for further insight into my perspective on this. Since they're tools that're currently advertised and deployed to annihilate peoples' dreams (I'm on animator/illustrator Instagram a lot, and the situation is bleak), it feels understandable to me that people would want to avoid thinking about them in their leisure time.
But if the LLMs get better at being sneaky, how are the AI companies supposed to brag about what a huge security risk their models are?
That's not going to stay in vogue forever.
Are you asserting that LLMs are inherently malicious and sneaky, or that the humans directing them are?
I’m asserting that they are specifically designed to win games.