I naively hoped the 2023 was a uniquely bloody year for game devs (and tech workers), but it looks like 2024 is shaping up to be even worse, at least for the first quarter. Game dev is already a...
I naively hoped the 2023 was a uniquely bloody year for game devs (and tech workers), but it looks like 2024 is shaping up to be even worse, at least for the first quarter. Game dev is already a fairly small ecosystem; huge chunks of workers being laid off means that finding work is much tougher for everyone. I don't doubt that many of these people will take their applicable skills and leave the game dev world for other tech markets or for some, get out of tech entirely.
Tech salaries are still going down. They will keep going down until they normalise with where they are really valued right now … which is to say, not very highly, given that there is a massive...
Tech salaries are still going down. They will keep going down until they normalise with where they are really valued right now … which is to say, not very highly, given that there is a massive surplus in the sector.
Teaching coding to a load of students, young people, plus the sector being overpaid for years has massively contributed to this. There’s a renormalisation that was waiting to happen and a downturn was always going to be a trigger for it.
Do you really think that’s the case? Genuine question, because I don’t know it. From what I recall, the only news I ever seem to have seen is companies’ executives urgently stating “we need more...
given that there is a massive surplus [of prospective employees] in the sector.
Do you really think that’s the case? Genuine question, because I don’t know it.
From what I recall, the only news I ever seem to have seen is companies’ executives urgently stating “we need more software engineers of all kinds, and we need them yesterday, not when the current college kids graduate” – given that nearly all industries today have a need for software of some kind.
I agree that wages have probably been overinflated for quite a long period now, though.
I mean...given the amount of churn and burnout you see out of game dev it's little surprise. I work a very boring job in a very boring sector. But when 4PM on Friday rolls around, I'm done till...
I mean...given the amount of churn and burnout you see out of game dev it's little surprise.
I work a very boring job in a very boring sector. But when 4PM on Friday rolls around, I'm done till 9:30 AM on Monday.
Same here, I almost never work weekends (or evenings). But more importantly I don't think all those fired people are going: "Hey! I was perfectly happy working in this industry until this company...
Same here, I almost never work weekends (or evenings). But more importantly I don't think all those fired people are going: "Hey! I was perfectly happy working in this industry until this company I was working in got shut down or downsized, but now I realize what a horrible place it was and I never want to work with games again". Some of them probably do, but I wouldn't think that the majority of those people that just got fired did.
And to quote Adys comment above which is what me and Tauon replied to:
Tech salaries are still going down. They will keep going down until they normalise with where they are really valued right now … which is to say, not very highly, given that there is a massive surplus in the sector.
And original comment by OBLIVIATOR
Game dev is already a fairly small ecosystem; huge chunks of workers being laid off means that finding work is much tougher for everyone.
And also from OBLIVIATOR: The programmers especially will have few problems finding other tech work quickly. This has been happening for decades now. So despite being a small industry, when...
And also from OBLIVIATOR:
I don't doubt that many of these people will take their applicable skills and leave the game dev world for other tech markets or for some, get out of tech entirely.
The programmers especially will have few problems finding other tech work quickly. This has been happening for decades now. So despite being a small industry, when there's a mass layoff, some huge percentage will move out, if only to fill the gaps when it's hard to find jobs.
"Hey former game programmer: You wanna quit the job that you've had for 5 years for one that will probably lay you off in 2?"
Its tough to find work immediately within the games industry immediately after a mass layoff. You have 5,000 seeking work, and either flood open positions, or go elsewhere. Doubly so if staying in...
Its tough to find work immediately within the games industry immediately after a mass layoff. You have 5,000 seeking work, and either flood open positions, or go elsewhere. Doubly so if staying in the games industry would require moving from their current location.
Or perhaps the reverse...using the layoff as an opportunity to escape the overpriced towns where the large companies tend to congregate. The more times someone has been batch laid off, the more likely they're going to say "fuck this, I'll go work as an embedded developer or something."
And once that person nopes out, they're much less likely to return. People who aren't programmers, like say the artists, are less likely to bounce all the way out of the games industry.
If you're having trouble recruiting programmers either:
Your wages or benefits are too low
You're in a bad location and/or mandate in-office
Everyone with the skillset you desire bounced out of the industry due to job instability
As a mobile app dev I’ve sometimes wondered why devs in the gaming industry haven’t all jumped ship by now. Just about any mobile dev is getting considerably better compensation for fewer hours of...
The more times someone has been batch laid off, the more likely they're going to say "fuck this, I'll go work as an embedded developer or something."
As a mobile app dev I’ve sometimes wondered why devs in the gaming industry haven’t all jumped ship by now. Just about any mobile dev is getting considerably better compensation for fewer hours of easier work than game devs are.
It's still enjoyable, and while salaries are lower in gamdev they aren't bad wages at medium-large studios. I was making $150k before being laid off with ~5 YOE. Even if I take a big paycut I'm...
I’ve sometimes wondered why devs in the gaming industry haven’t all jumped ship by now.
It's still enjoyable, and while salaries are lower in gamdev they aren't bad wages at medium-large studios. I was making $150k before being laid off with ~5 YOE. Even if I take a big paycut I'm still probably going to have 6 figures, and I live alone and relatively humbly anyway.
I'm still in the market haha. Problems I'm running into seems to be that I'm just not really getting past the recruiter calls. So, resume is clearly good enough but I guess so are dozens of others...
I'm still in the market haha. Problems I'm running into seems to be that I'm just not really getting past the recruiter calls. So, resume is clearly good enough but I guess so are dozens of others (Or IDK, maybe there's a lot more hiring freezes than expected. The next best thing to do to avoid layoffs).
Then of course there's always the smaller problem of being a US employee. A lot of open roles I see are in the EU as of late, and a few have been outright transparent in saying that, while remote, they aren't really considering US candidates unless it's director level or above. It's not financially worth it otherwise.
It's one thing to identify the gap in your team or org and another to allocate the funding to hire someone to fill that gap. Once you have funds allocated you need to be choosy about who you...
It's one thing to identify the gap in your team or org and another to allocate the funding to hire someone to fill that gap. Once you have funds allocated you need to be choosy about who you select to join your team, because you might not have another opportunity to hire someone soon. Make sure that any potential candidates have the necessary skills.
So there is a demand, but it is a demand for a very specific candidate unique to the role. General purpose knowledge can usually be found for less technical work, but the requirements are getting more specialized each year.
A few thoughts as someone who’s been working as a dev for closing in on a decade… First, “tech” is a far more large umbrella than many realize, covering everything from the game companies like the...
A few thoughts as someone who’s been working as a dev for closing in on a decade…
First, “tech” is a far more large umbrella than many realize, covering everything from the game companies like the article is talking about to companies where tech is incidental and not the product to startups and midsize companies (both VC-backed and bootstrapped) to multinationals (both publicly traded and private). Even for just devs, comp and treatment vary wildly between these — game studios infamously pay terribly and work terrible hours whereas the upper crust of Google’s engineers (a small group, but relevant nonetheless) is pulling US$500k+ and pampered, despite similar skill levels. Similar if not as egregious gaps exist between the companies where software is incidental and tech startups.
Following that, devs working at well funded private companies aren’t feeling the squeeze nearly as much. It’s companies facing external pressure to make the numbers look better that are laying people off.
The only place where there is a surplus of talent is in entry level positions, very few of which have been open for a long time now, dating back to the mid-late 2010s. Companies don’t want someone they need to train, they want someone who can hit the ground running, and so the vast majority of open positions are mid-level up through senior. There’s still a considerable undersupply of candidates of that skill level despite layoffs.
Finding capable devs and especially those deserving of the title “software engineer” is difficult, and the CS and bootcamp grads being pumped out aren’t going to cut it. Those people might eventually find their way into the hiring pool, but only after they’ve figured out a way to bolster their skills and climb the ladder despite the lack of entry level positions (usually involves building a few non-trivial projects on their own to demonstrate their ability). Most won’t make it past that filter, largely because most CS courses are ill-suited for teaching how to build software and bootcamp programs teach only the surface level of a few specific technologies rather than generalizable skills.
Of course I’m going to be a bit biased here, but I don’t agree that dev salaries are inflated. It’s one of the few professions where pay has somewhat tracked with inflation, meaning that devs shouldn’t be making less, everybody else should also have their pay inflation-adjusted. Furthermore, software engineering is a bit of an odd duck in that the work of a single engineer can directly generate revenue several tens or even hundreds of times their salary. They deliver more than enough value to justify their compensation.
And there always will be so long as the culture of not wanting to train people continues. Can't get new mid-level people if nobody ever hires beginners.
There’s still a considerable undersupply of candidates of that skill level despite layoffs.
And there always will be so long as the culture of not wanting to train people continues.
Can't get new mid-level people if nobody ever hires beginners.
Absolutely. It’s one of the only real downsides of the field that one is generally expected to bring their skillsets up to par and keep them relevant on their own time and dime.
Absolutely. It’s one of the only real downsides of the field that one is generally expected to bring their skillsets up to par and keep them relevant on their own time and dime.
I do wonder why apprenticeships aren't much of a thing in tech, all while reducing the amount of entry level jobs. They seem to at best take an intern for a 3 month trial period and cross their...
I do wonder why apprenticeships aren't much of a thing in tech, all while reducing the amount of entry level jobs. They seem to at best take an intern for a 3 month trial period and cross their fingers they are a rockstar dev to hire as a junior, but even that doesn't guarantee much (let's face it, someone who can get a gamedev internship is also probably getting flagged by big tech as well).
That's the key. The first company I worked for went public. It was great at first and then the pressure came. The company and its culture took a down turn quick. I told myself that I would only...
Following that, devs working at well funded private companies aren’t feeling the squeeze nearly as much.
That's the key. The first company I worked for went public. It was great at first and then the pressure came. The company and its culture took a down turn quick. I told myself that I would only work for private companies after that. I fortunately found a great private company. It's definitely the way to go if you can manage it
And yet, there are still few good candidates. You can get tons of applicants but filtering for people that can do the job with excellence is a chore. If there’s a paradigm shift maybe we’ll end up...
And yet, there are still few good candidates. You can get tons of applicants but filtering for people that can do the job with excellence is a chore. If there’s a paradigm shift maybe we’ll end up for a better signal to noise ratio in the job market.
Given the rise of AI I think it'll just become noisier. LinkedIn is already advertising stuff like "apply to companies using AI". Sounds like a good time to be a recruiter, though. If your app box...
Given the rise of AI I think it'll just become noisier. LinkedIn is already advertising stuff like "apply to companies using AI".
Sounds like a good time to be a recruiter, though. If your app box is flooded you gotta rely a lot more on going to the promising candidates.
Microsoft laying off 1900 from their gaming division is especially gross. They are the biggest or second biggest company in the world so they didn't have to do this. I'll give credit to Apple for...
Microsoft laying off 1900 from their gaming division is especially gross. They are the biggest or second biggest company in the world so they didn't have to do this. I'll give credit to Apple for avoiding layoffs, at least so far. Microsoft gaming division has done a lot to repair their image and this is a stark reminder that companies do not care about you regardless of their "we are a family" bullshit and they will dump you in a heartbeat if it will make their investors happy.
I'm convinced that Apple has the wisest management compared to all other large companies. They hire carefully, and they fire carefully. I think they know that hiring the wrong people is a net...
I'm convinced that Apple has the wisest management compared to all other large companies.
They hire carefully, and they fire carefully.
I think they know that hiring the wrong people is a net negative, so they avoided the pandemic hiring binge. And I think they know that while mass layoffs might save a few bucks but cost tons of money in killed morale and lost productivity. That loss only materializes in the long run with failed teams and products.
It's how they're able to execute their product strategy almost flawlessly year after year and make boatloads of money. Hiring people is easy: the hard (and not cheap) part is building teams, human capital, and institutional knowledge.
It also helps when you have their crazy cash reserves. There is something to be said for giving your team a sense of security. Who knows why they haven't paid people off yet. If their stock...
It also helps when you have their crazy cash reserves. There is something to be said for giving your team a sense of security. Who knows why they haven't paid people off yet. If their stock suddenly started tanking who knows if they would hold out. They are just the biggest profile company that has avoided layoffs so I find it interesting. At least so far.
My company did all their layoffs in 2022 and 2023. We are down about 50%.
I naively hoped the 2023 was a uniquely bloody year for game devs (and tech workers), but it looks like 2024 is shaping up to be even worse, at least for the first quarter. Game dev is already a fairly small ecosystem; huge chunks of workers being laid off means that finding work is much tougher for everyone. I don't doubt that many of these people will take their applicable skills and leave the game dev world for other tech markets or for some, get out of tech entirely.
Tech salaries are still going down. They will keep going down until they normalise with where they are really valued right now … which is to say, not very highly, given that there is a massive surplus in the sector.
Teaching coding to a load of students, young people, plus the sector being overpaid for years has massively contributed to this. There’s a renormalisation that was waiting to happen and a downturn was always going to be a trigger for it.
Do you really think that’s the case? Genuine question, because I don’t know it.
From what I recall, the only news I ever seem to have seen is companies’ executives urgently stating “we need more software engineers of all kinds, and we need them yesterday, not when the current college kids graduate” – given that nearly all industries today have a need for software of some kind.
I agree that wages have probably been overinflated for quite a long period now, though.
I know we have a hard time recruiting for many roles including gameplay programmers.
I mean...given the amount of churn and burnout you see out of game dev it's little surprise.
I work a very boring job in a very boring sector. But when 4PM on Friday rolls around, I'm done till 9:30 AM on Monday.
This but I’m done until 11am Monday
Same here, I almost never work weekends (or evenings). But more importantly I don't think all those fired people are going: "Hey! I was perfectly happy working in this industry until this company I was working in got shut down or downsized, but now I realize what a horrible place it was and I never want to work with games again". Some of them probably do, but I wouldn't think that the majority of those people that just got fired did.
And to quote Adys comment above which is what me and Tauon replied to:
And original comment by OBLIVIATOR
And also from OBLIVIATOR:
The programmers especially will have few problems finding other tech work quickly. This has been happening for decades now. So despite being a small industry, when there's a mass layoff, some huge percentage will move out, if only to fill the gaps when it's hard to find jobs.
"Hey former game programmer: You wanna quit the job that you've had for 5 years for one that will probably lay you off in 2?"
So is it tough finding that work or not? Because if it's tough to find work due to so many people applying it shouldn't be hard to recruit.
Its tough to find work immediately within the games industry immediately after a mass layoff. You have 5,000 seeking work, and either flood open positions, or go elsewhere. Doubly so if staying in the games industry would require moving from their current location.
Or perhaps the reverse...using the layoff as an opportunity to escape the overpriced towns where the large companies tend to congregate. The more times someone has been batch laid off, the more likely they're going to say "fuck this, I'll go work as an embedded developer or something."
And once that person nopes out, they're much less likely to return. People who aren't programmers, like say the artists, are less likely to bounce all the way out of the games industry.
If you're having trouble recruiting programmers either:
As a mobile app dev I’ve sometimes wondered why devs in the gaming industry haven’t all jumped ship by now. Just about any mobile dev is getting considerably better compensation for fewer hours of easier work than game devs are.
It's still enjoyable, and while salaries are lower in gamdev they aren't bad wages at medium-large studios. I was making $150k before being laid off with ~5 YOE. Even if I take a big paycut I'm still probably going to have 6 figures, and I live alone and relatively humbly anyway.
I'm still in the market haha. Problems I'm running into seems to be that I'm just not really getting past the recruiter calls. So, resume is clearly good enough but I guess so are dozens of others (Or IDK, maybe there's a lot more hiring freezes than expected. The next best thing to do to avoid layoffs).
Then of course there's always the smaller problem of being a US employee. A lot of open roles I see are in the EU as of late, and a few have been outright transparent in saying that, while remote, they aren't really considering US candidates unless it's director level or above. It's not financially worth it otherwise.
It's one thing to identify the gap in your team or org and another to allocate the funding to hire someone to fill that gap. Once you have funds allocated you need to be choosy about who you select to join your team, because you might not have another opportunity to hire someone soon. Make sure that any potential candidates have the necessary skills.
So there is a demand, but it is a demand for a very specific candidate unique to the role. General purpose knowledge can usually be found for less technical work, but the requirements are getting more specialized each year.
A few thoughts as someone who’s been working as a dev for closing in on a decade…
First, “tech” is a far more large umbrella than many realize, covering everything from the game companies like the article is talking about to companies where tech is incidental and not the product to startups and midsize companies (both VC-backed and bootstrapped) to multinationals (both publicly traded and private). Even for just devs, comp and treatment vary wildly between these — game studios infamously pay terribly and work terrible hours whereas the upper crust of Google’s engineers (a small group, but relevant nonetheless) is pulling US$500k+ and pampered, despite similar skill levels. Similar if not as egregious gaps exist between the companies where software is incidental and tech startups.
Following that, devs working at well funded private companies aren’t feeling the squeeze nearly as much. It’s companies facing external pressure to make the numbers look better that are laying people off.
The only place where there is a surplus of talent is in entry level positions, very few of which have been open for a long time now, dating back to the mid-late 2010s. Companies don’t want someone they need to train, they want someone who can hit the ground running, and so the vast majority of open positions are mid-level up through senior. There’s still a considerable undersupply of candidates of that skill level despite layoffs.
Finding capable devs and especially those deserving of the title “software engineer” is difficult, and the CS and bootcamp grads being pumped out aren’t going to cut it. Those people might eventually find their way into the hiring pool, but only after they’ve figured out a way to bolster their skills and climb the ladder despite the lack of entry level positions (usually involves building a few non-trivial projects on their own to demonstrate their ability). Most won’t make it past that filter, largely because most CS courses are ill-suited for teaching how to build software and bootcamp programs teach only the surface level of a few specific technologies rather than generalizable skills.
Of course I’m going to be a bit biased here, but I don’t agree that dev salaries are inflated. It’s one of the few professions where pay has somewhat tracked with inflation, meaning that devs shouldn’t be making less, everybody else should also have their pay inflation-adjusted. Furthermore, software engineering is a bit of an odd duck in that the work of a single engineer can directly generate revenue several tens or even hundreds of times their salary. They deliver more than enough value to justify their compensation.
And there always will be so long as the culture of not wanting to train people continues.
Can't get new mid-level people if nobody ever hires beginners.
Absolutely. It’s one of the only real downsides of the field that one is generally expected to bring their skillsets up to par and keep them relevant on their own time and dime.
I do wonder why apprenticeships aren't much of a thing in tech, all while reducing the amount of entry level jobs. They seem to at best take an intern for a 3 month trial period and cross their fingers they are a rockstar dev to hire as a junior, but even that doesn't guarantee much (let's face it, someone who can get a gamedev internship is also probably getting flagged by big tech as well).
That's the key. The first company I worked for went public. It was great at first and then the pressure came. The company and its culture took a down turn quick. I told myself that I would only work for private companies after that. I fortunately found a great private company. It's definitely the way to go if you can manage it
And yet, there are still few good candidates. You can get tons of applicants but filtering for people that can do the job with excellence is a chore. If there’s a paradigm shift maybe we’ll end up for a better signal to noise ratio in the job market.
Given the rise of AI I think it'll just become noisier. LinkedIn is already advertising stuff like "apply to companies using AI".
Sounds like a good time to be a recruiter, though. If your app box is flooded you gotta rely a lot more on going to the promising candidates.
It's a good time to refocus on networking!
Microsoft laying off 1900 from their gaming division is especially gross. They are the biggest or second biggest company in the world so they didn't have to do this. I'll give credit to Apple for avoiding layoffs, at least so far. Microsoft gaming division has done a lot to repair their image and this is a stark reminder that companies do not care about you regardless of their "we are a family" bullshit and they will dump you in a heartbeat if it will make their investors happy.
I'm convinced that Apple has the wisest management compared to all other large companies.
They hire carefully, and they fire carefully.
I think they know that hiring the wrong people is a net negative, so they avoided the pandemic hiring binge. And I think they know that while mass layoffs might save a few bucks but cost tons of money in killed morale and lost productivity. That loss only materializes in the long run with failed teams and products.
It's how they're able to execute their product strategy almost flawlessly year after year and make boatloads of money. Hiring people is easy: the hard (and not cheap) part is building teams, human capital, and institutional knowledge.
It also helps when you have their crazy cash reserves. There is something to be said for giving your team a sense of security. Who knows why they haven't paid people off yet. If their stock suddenly started tanking who knows if they would hold out. They are just the biggest profile company that has avoided layoffs so I find it interesting. At least so far.
My company did all their layoffs in 2022 and 2023. We are down about 50%.