It's really sad how understudied these phenomena are. I'm often hesitant to really bring it up anywhere because of how the usage of medication for mental health is often still stigmatized. At the...
It's really sad how understudied these phenomena are. I'm often hesitant to really bring it up anywhere because of how the usage of medication for mental health is often still stigmatized. At the same time, these are genuine concerns and it's questionable whether people can really consent to use medication if this isn't more wildly known.
Back when I still modded mental health community there was one person in particular that was quite intense about it. To the point we eventually had to ban that individual, as well as some obvious alts. I don't regret the ban as it was necessary, at the same time their behaviour was also a measure of just how unheard some of these victims are.
I don't think I need to say it here of all places, but still: people suffer from the stigma of using medication for mental health. And this is a genuine problem that needs to be addressed.
The stigma cuts both ways: in my province, one is automatically not able to apply1 for disability or any further gate kept benefits if one refuses to take medication for mental health problems....
The stigma cuts both ways: in my province, one is automatically not able to apply1 for disability or any further gate kept benefits if one refuses to take medication for mental health problems. Nevermind that the doctors refuse to listen to your complains of negative side effects.
The stigma is both of "you shouldn't rely on meds you're simply not helping yourself" and "you're not well because you refuse meds and not helping yourself".
1 - you can apply but their criteria denies based on this
Edit: forgot relevant quote - this is what Munari is experiencing
To receive disability, she agreed to go back on the drug she'd been on
What if you get the drug prescription, fill it, but don't take the pills? It's ridiculous but isn't that your prerogative and the insurance wouldn't know unless they tested you to see if they drug...
What if you get the drug prescription, fill it, but don't take the pills? It's ridiculous but isn't that your prerogative and the insurance wouldn't know unless they tested you to see if they drug is in your system at the dose it's expected to be given the prescription? I doubt they'd do that testing though, and it's their money being thrown away on medication they insist you take.
There's a scene in Equilibrium where the protagonist, living in a drug controlled dystopia, does just that, throw em away. So I imagine thats what some people have to do. (Gentle reminder never...
There's a scene in Equilibrium where the protagonist, living in a drug controlled dystopia, does just that, throw em away. So I imagine thats what some people have to do. (Gentle reminder never flush drugs: hurts our water and fish) There are also people whose flavour of neurodivergence would not allow them to lie about it, though, so that especially sucks in a world where everyone assumes others are lying.
I am curious on the correct way to "covertly" dispose of medicine that you don't want. There are places that accept drugs and prescriptions but I don't feel very anonymous when I go to those places.
I am curious on the correct way to "covertly" dispose of medicine that you don't want.
There are places that accept drugs and prescriptions but I don't feel very anonymous when I go to those places.
I'm not sure. Maybe just put them in a bag and take them to the pharmacist without names and dates? I would ask them first if they're willing to take old unlabelled drugs first -- maybe someone...
I'm not sure. Maybe just put them in a bag and take them to the pharmacist without names and dates? I would ask them first if they're willing to take old unlabelled drugs first -- maybe someone found them cleaning out an apartment for an elderly relative? I've had to get rid of a lot of pairs of old glasses, wouldn't be surprising to find a lot of untaken prescription.
An increased number of people being on antidepressants definitely doesn't entail that they aren't still stigmatized (even though they definitely are less than they once were and less than other...
An increased number of people being on antidepressants definitely doesn't entail that they aren't still stigmatized (even though they definitely are less than they once were and less than other medications for mental health).
Doctors have long understood that stopping antidepressants can cause short-term withdrawal, with patients suffering from symptoms like dizziness, anxiety, insomnia and nausea.
What most prescribers and patients don't understand is that "you can have symptoms that persist for long periods after you stop them," said British psychiatrist Mark Horowitz, who specializes in antidepressant withdrawal. According to one analysis of patient narratives, people who experienced long-term withdrawal suffered for an average of eight years.
Although psychiatrists have been documenting cases like Munari's for decades, no large-scale studies on the problem exist. Because of that, experts still disagree on how common this kind of condition is, how to prevent it, or even what to call it.
"It should be very concerning to the medical system and the public that there are tens of millions of people walking around on drugs whose long-term exposure and withdrawal effects we do not understand," Horowitz said.
It’s been about two years since I was on escitalopram and I still get the occasional brain zap. Just this morning I had one, in fact. Had I realized a few months of being on the drug would have...
It’s been about two years since I was on escitalopram and I still get the occasional brain zap. Just this morning I had one, in fact. Had I realized a few months of being on the drug would have years of withdrawal symptoms, I would have reconsidered ever starting taking them for sure. At least now the effects arent daily and Ive made great progress in my mental wellbeing without drugs and with the help of psychotherapy. I personally wouldn’t recommend anyone start using them unless you are in an acute danger of self harm.
huh I didn't know escitalopram caused brain zaps! I must've lucked out not getting that symptom with it (either when I took it regularly or when I weaned myself off it)
huh I didn't know escitalopram caused brain zaps! I must've lucked out not getting that symptom with it (either when I took it regularly or when I weaned myself off it)
Long term zaps/shocks are pretty rare but the prevelance is about 42% for withdrawal effects. It's just that most don't last more than a month and may even be a one-off.
Long term zaps/shocks are pretty rare but the prevelance is about 42% for withdrawal effects. It's just that most don't last more than a month and may even be a one-off.
How would you describe a "brain zap"? Just curious, as I weened myself off the same thing, I'm not sure how many years ago now, maybe 5-6? I don't personally recall any adverse affects, but my...
How would you describe a "brain zap"? Just curious, as I weened myself off the same thing, I'm not sure how many years ago now, maybe 5-6? I don't personally recall any adverse affects, but my memory is terrible.
Personally, ive gotten them since I was a kid. I'd describe it as a kind of extrasensory jolt. Maybe relate it to the feeling of jolting awake when half asleep? Its not one to one but I think its...
Personally, ive gotten them since I was a kid. I'd describe it as a kind of extrasensory jolt. Maybe relate it to the feeling of jolting awake when half asleep? Its not one to one but I think its a good enough comparison.
Yeah, for me it was like an electric zap — like when you build up static electricity and discharge it by touching metal. Alternate comparison: it was like a rubber band snapping inside my brain....
Yeah, for me it was like an electric zap — like when you build up static electricity and discharge it by touching metal.
Alternate comparison: it was like a rubber band snapping inside my brain.
It never hurt at all; it was just surprising and unexpected.
Thanks. Weird, I don't get most those symptoms, at least, I can't recall, but I do get unexplained dizzy spells periodically, which is listed as a symptom.
Thanks.
Weird, I don't get most those symptoms, at least, I can't recall, but I do get unexplained dizzy spells periodically, which is listed as a symptom.
An analogy I've found matches my experience is calling them "glitching", based on the first Spiderman miles Morales movie (don't remember exact name). In that movie the Spidermans from alternate...
An analogy I've found matches my experience is calling them "glitching", based on the first Spiderman miles Morales movie (don't remember exact name). In that movie the Spidermans from alternate dimensions "glitch", which is shown as a sudden, disorienting, and mildly painful sensation that consumes them for a brief moment, and then leaves as soon as it came.
If you haven't seen the movie, try looking up a clip. The nice thing is the movie was pretty popular, so a lot of people have seen it, so describing it in reference to the movie has been understandable for people I tell it to so far
Clearly very late to the party here. I found the brain zaps very unpleasant but fortunately they only lasted a few weeks. The ramp-down was unpleasant enough that I'm unlikely to try it again. I...
Clearly very late to the party here. I found the brain zaps very unpleasant but fortunately they only lasted a few weeks. The ramp-down was unpleasant enough that I'm unlikely to try it again.
I will say that for me, it was helpful in preventing panic attacks, which was my main driver for seeking medication in the first place. That being said, I felt pretty emotionally numb while taking it - almost like the level of any emotion I could experience (positive or negative) was capped or dulled in some way. It helped me get to a point where I could seek out further help on my own, which was good. But it was unpleasant enough that it'd take a lot for me to come back for it. (Also, maybe other alternatives would have been better for me, but escitalopram is the only thing I've tried.)
I started taking Effexor around 2011, and then switched to Pristiq around 2015. For both of them the major side effect is withdrawal. You can get some high blood pressure issues at higher doses...
I started taking Effexor around 2011, and then switched to Pristiq around 2015. For both of them the major side effect is withdrawal. You can get some high blood pressure issues at higher doses but I haven't had that problem.
When I first started taking Effexor, my doctor warned me that if I missed a dose it would feel pretty bad. She said, "If you miss a dose, you'll get the zaps." I asked what that was and she said, "Oh you'll find out." She was not wrong. If I miss a dose by more than about 4 hours, I start to feel really bad. Kind of like if you were coming down with the flu. Body aches, dizziness, general malaise. If I go a little bit longer than I get the zaps, which are hard to describe. It's kind of like a visual flash coupled with vertigo and a jolty sensation in my body.
I knew all about all this going in, and it seems like the course for me is going to be to stay on the antidepressants as long as I can. If I ever do have to go off them, I know it's going to really suck. Even switching from Effexor to Pristiq, which are almost the same drug, and even with ramping one down and ramping one up at the same time, it was a terrible month. Once I take a dose, it takes about an hour or two feel mostly normal again.
That said, the antidepressant seems to be necessary for me. I was at what I thought was the maximum dose of Pristiq (100mg), and then I had a serious medical issue and some follow on PTSD. My doctor had me start taking another 50 mg. My doctor said that it has been studied and is effective at higher doses, they just don't have it approved by the FDA at those doses.
I don't miss a dose very often. Probably a late dose around once a month and a missed dose around twice a year. My combo system for keeping track is:
I have a very reliable reminder app (it is also available on android). It's main virtue is that if you just swipe the reminder off, it will come back in 15 minutes. You have to explicitly clear the reminder. It goes off every day, and I don't clear it unless I take my pills.
I keep the pills in a bottle with a Timer Cap it shows the time since the bottle was last opened, and is automatically reset when you uncap the bottle. It's great for when I'm not sure if I took my pills or not, I can check it.
The final piece is that I keep two doses of my medicine in a little metal tube that goes on my keychain so if I end up somewhere unexpected I can still take it.
side note: My doc was straight up with me that we have no idea really how most of these drugs work. Sure we have some idea of some of their mechanisms, like ssris block certain transports, but we...
side note: My doc was straight up with me that we have no idea really how most of these drugs work. Sure we have some idea of some of their mechanisms, like ssris block certain transports, but we don’t know why that has the effect that it does (in a few people, I think last I checked the nnt for most if these drugs is four or more)(nnt=number needed to treat, or number of people in a general population of sufferers who will have to receive treatment before 1 person sees an effect. It’s a statistical statement on efficacy among individuals.) Recent evidence suggests seratonin may play no role in depression. Other recent evidence suggests that how much you believe your doctor also plays a big role in efficacy. This last is a hopeful sign for me: I’ve long marveled at how little we study the placebo effect-which is a real measurable effect. Also someone recently pointed out to me there is also a “no-cebo” effect, where disbelief inhibits a med’s efficacy.
Edit: Based on @sparksbet clarification, I wonder if these lingering symptoms could be explained by the nocebo effect, or at least some instances?
This is not what the nocebo effect is. The nocebo effect is when patient expectations lead to worsened symptoms or increased side effects. I am not aware of its being widely used for meds becoming...
Also someone recently pointed out to me there is also a “no-cebo” effect, where disbelief inhibits a med’s efficacy.
This is not what the nocebo effect is. The nocebo effect is when patient expectations lead to worsened symptoms or increased side effects. I am not aware of its being widely used for meds becoming less effective than otherwise due to patient expectations, at least not outside the degree to which worsened symptoms would count as less effective. Tbqh, I have never read anything about that phenomenon existing -- if it does, I suspect it has a different name than the nocebo effect.
I don't trust medication much anymore. I had nasty side effects from abruptly stopping an ssri. They lasted 15y. Stuff like that just shakes my trust in the medical industry.
I don't trust medication much anymore. I had nasty side effects from abruptly stopping an ssri. They lasted 15y.
Stuff like that just shakes my trust in the medical industry.
This is not to say that people shouldn't take medicine for mental health maintenance or for anything else. But in general we are over medicated and treatment of chronic conditions is often lacking...
This is not to say that people shouldn't take medicine for mental health maintenance or for anything else. But in general we are over medicated and treatment of chronic conditions is often lacking in western medicine.
Years ago I read "Saving Yourself From the Disease-Care Crisis" by Walt Stoll. This is an alternative medicine book with the premise that western medicine is excellent at treating acute issues but not good at prevention and long term maintenance. The book came out in 1996 at a time when it slightly fringe to make such a statement. Now it is more common to question medicine and there is an entire quack/grifter industry around it, and it is weaponized politically by the Republican party. This book isn't very quacky but maybe it has a few questionable things, like I think he may recommend chelation therapy for things it isn't proven to help.
Anyway, one of the points Stoll makes in the book is that Doctors prescribe too much medicine, and often in combinations that aren't tested. He makes a statement that is something like "if you are taking 3 medications, it's almost certainly better to take 0". Other famous (and respected) doctors such as John McDougall also spent a lot of time trying to get people to use diet and exercise in place of medication when possible.
This makes me pretty concerned. I've been on escitalopram since 2018 ish and never had any negative side effects while on it, but it sounds like the longer I stay on it, the more I'm playing with...
This makes me pretty concerned. I've been on escitalopram since 2018 ish and never had any negative side effects while on it, but it sounds like the longer I stay on it, the more I'm playing with fire. But if I stop I could have years long side effects, with no way to tell until I try to taper. I'll have to talk to my doctor at my next appointment. Very concerning.
As someone who just started cymbalta this week, this isn't the most comforting read. That said, I'm hoping that I don't need to be on it long term. I don't have a history of depression or anxiety,...
As someone who just started cymbalta this week, this isn't the most comforting read. That said, I'm hoping that I don't need to be on it long term. I don't have a history of depression or anxiety, but my anxiety got absurdly bad over the summer when I was buying a house and it finally caught up to me about a month ago and I've been sick ever since with what I now think to be anxiety or panic attacks. I've been on cymbalta for 5 days now and am starting to feel like myself again, but I'm very much not interested in losing my feelings or anything like that long term, so I'm hoping that using this for a few months gets me back on track and then I can taper off (I'm on a very low dose right now).
I found it was one of the single most effective medications for my mood and anxiety, and I’ve tried a lot; I hope it does as well for you as it did for me. This is all just some stranger’s...
I found it was one of the single most effective medications for my mood and anxiety, and I’ve tried a lot; I hope it does as well for you as it did for me.
This is all just some stranger’s opinion, but: don’t rush to get off it, or any medication that’s helping you; get yourself nicely situated and settled in your life. Panic has a nasty way of embedding itself in a cycle and being quick to return even after a good couple weeks or months—letting your mind and body fully acclimatise to stability and peace can do a lot of good for your long-term outcomes. In my experience, SNRIs like duloxetine/Cymbalta don’t do much “numbing” of feelings, and despite the article, longer-term discontinuation effects are relatively rare (and in any event tend to be more physiological than psychological).
Yeah, I'm not rushing to get off and if I need to be on these forever, so be it, but considering how quickly anxiety destroyed me this summer, I'm hoping I can overcome it. I'm already feeling...
Yeah, I'm not rushing to get off and if I need to be on these forever, so be it, but considering how quickly anxiety destroyed me this summer, I'm hoping I can overcome it. I'm already feeling much better after just a few days on it and I've heard it can take a few weeks to feel normal once you first start. It just makes me sad to have gone from being "perfectly fine" (in retrospect, I was not fine) to a complete mess in just a couple of months, but I've heard anxiety can really build in you and hit all at once.
Edit:
And to put it in perspective, I went from my normal life to trying to buy a house by myself, I had a different health scare this summer, elective surgery in spring, I had a ton of work related stress, and then for the 2 weeks I took to move and get settled, I was eating nothing but fast food and hadn't gone to the gym. About 2 weeks after I moved is when my health started declining. I was getting migraines, dizziness, lightheadedness, heart palpitations, and random pains and I was in the hospital three times. It seems to have all been anxiety related now that all of those symptoms are improving while on cymbalta. So I can see why my brain started freaking out even though I consciously felt fine once I was settled in the house.
Good to take the tapering seriously whenever you decide to discontinue duloxetine. I had brain zaps for a week or so following a cold turkey stop of it. I just didn’t take the need to taper...
Good to take the tapering seriously whenever you decide to discontinue duloxetine. I had brain zaps for a week or so following a cold turkey stop of it. I just didn’t take the need to taper seriously / am a bad patient lol. Cheers
It's really sad how understudied these phenomena are. I'm often hesitant to really bring it up anywhere because of how the usage of medication for mental health is often still stigmatized. At the same time, these are genuine concerns and it's questionable whether people can really consent to use medication if this isn't more wildly known.
Back when I still modded mental health community there was one person in particular that was quite intense about it. To the point we eventually had to ban that individual, as well as some obvious alts. I don't regret the ban as it was necessary, at the same time their behaviour was also a measure of just how unheard some of these victims are.
I don't think I need to say it here of all places, but still: people suffer from the stigma of using medication for mental health. And this is a genuine problem that needs to be addressed.
The stigma cuts both ways: in my province, one is automatically not able to apply1 for disability or any further gate kept benefits if one refuses to take medication for mental health problems. Nevermind that the doctors refuse to listen to your complains of negative side effects.
The stigma is both of "you shouldn't rely on meds you're simply not helping yourself" and "you're not well because you refuse meds and not helping yourself".
1 - you can apply but their criteria denies based on this
Edit: forgot relevant quote - this is what Munari is experiencing
What if you get the drug prescription, fill it, but don't take the pills? It's ridiculous but isn't that your prerogative and the insurance wouldn't know unless they tested you to see if they drug is in your system at the dose it's expected to be given the prescription? I doubt they'd do that testing though, and it's their money being thrown away on medication they insist you take.
There's a scene in Equilibrium where the protagonist, living in a drug controlled dystopia, does just that, throw em away. So I imagine thats what some people have to do. (Gentle reminder never flush drugs: hurts our water and fish) There are also people whose flavour of neurodivergence would not allow them to lie about it, though, so that especially sucks in a world where everyone assumes others are lying.
I am curious on the correct way to "covertly" dispose of medicine that you don't want.
There are places that accept drugs and prescriptions but I don't feel very anonymous when I go to those places.
I'm not sure. Maybe just put them in a bag and take them to the pharmacist without names and dates? I would ask them first if they're willing to take old unlabelled drugs first -- maybe someone found them cleaning out an apartment for an elderly relative? I've had to get rid of a lot of pairs of old glasses, wouldn't be surprising to find a lot of untaken prescription.
An increased number of people being on antidepressants definitely doesn't entail that they aren't still stigmatized (even though they definitely are less than they once were and less than other medications for mental health).
It’s been about two years since I was on escitalopram and I still get the occasional brain zap. Just this morning I had one, in fact. Had I realized a few months of being on the drug would have years of withdrawal symptoms, I would have reconsidered ever starting taking them for sure. At least now the effects arent daily and Ive made great progress in my mental wellbeing without drugs and with the help of psychotherapy. I personally wouldn’t recommend anyone start using them unless you are in an acute danger of self harm.
huh I didn't know escitalopram caused brain zaps! I must've lucked out not getting that symptom with it (either when I took it regularly or when I weaned myself off it)
Long term zaps/shocks are pretty rare but the prevelance is about 42% for withdrawal effects. It's just that most don't last more than a month and may even be a one-off.
I was just under the impression that brain zaps were only associated with certain antidepressants and didn't know escitalopram was one of them.
Yeah gotcha, I am not as familiar with pharmaceutical side effects myself.
How would you describe a "brain zap"? Just curious, as I weened myself off the same thing, I'm not sure how many years ago now, maybe 5-6? I don't personally recall any adverse affects, but my memory is terrible.
Personally, ive gotten them since I was a kid. I'd describe it as a kind of extrasensory jolt. Maybe relate it to the feeling of jolting awake when half asleep? Its not one to one but I think its a good enough comparison.
That’s a pretty good comparison. I usually say it feels like vertigo combined with the sensation of a small electrical shock/tingling sensation.
Yeah, that seems like a good description to me.
Yeah, for me it was like an electric zap — like when you build up static electricity and discharge it by touching metal.
Alternate comparison: it was like a rubber band snapping inside my brain.
It never hurt at all; it was just surprising and unexpected.
Can't speak for personal experience, but in the meantime here's a little article
Thanks.
Weird, I don't get most those symptoms, at least, I can't recall, but I do get unexplained dizzy spells periodically, which is listed as a symptom.
An analogy I've found matches my experience is calling them "glitching", based on the first Spiderman miles Morales movie (don't remember exact name). In that movie the Spidermans from alternate dimensions "glitch", which is shown as a sudden, disorienting, and mildly painful sensation that consumes them for a brief moment, and then leaves as soon as it came.
If you haven't seen the movie, try looking up a clip. The nice thing is the movie was pretty popular, so a lot of people have seen it, so describing it in reference to the movie has been understandable for people I tell it to so far
Clearly very late to the party here. I found the brain zaps very unpleasant but fortunately they only lasted a few weeks. The ramp-down was unpleasant enough that I'm unlikely to try it again.
I will say that for me, it was helpful in preventing panic attacks, which was my main driver for seeking medication in the first place. That being said, I felt pretty emotionally numb while taking it - almost like the level of any emotion I could experience (positive or negative) was capped or dulled in some way. It helped me get to a point where I could seek out further help on my own, which was good. But it was unpleasant enough that it'd take a lot for me to come back for it. (Also, maybe other alternatives would have been better for me, but escitalopram is the only thing I've tried.)
I started taking Effexor around 2011, and then switched to Pristiq around 2015. For both of them the major side effect is withdrawal. You can get some high blood pressure issues at higher doses but I haven't had that problem.
When I first started taking Effexor, my doctor warned me that if I missed a dose it would feel pretty bad. She said, "If you miss a dose, you'll get the zaps." I asked what that was and she said, "Oh you'll find out." She was not wrong. If I miss a dose by more than about 4 hours, I start to feel really bad. Kind of like if you were coming down with the flu. Body aches, dizziness, general malaise. If I go a little bit longer than I get the zaps, which are hard to describe. It's kind of like a visual flash coupled with vertigo and a jolty sensation in my body.
I knew all about all this going in, and it seems like the course for me is going to be to stay on the antidepressants as long as I can. If I ever do have to go off them, I know it's going to really suck. Even switching from Effexor to Pristiq, which are almost the same drug, and even with ramping one down and ramping one up at the same time, it was a terrible month. Once I take a dose, it takes about an hour or two feel mostly normal again.
That said, the antidepressant seems to be necessary for me. I was at what I thought was the maximum dose of Pristiq (100mg), and then I had a serious medical issue and some follow on PTSD. My doctor had me start taking another 50 mg. My doctor said that it has been studied and is effective at higher doses, they just don't have it approved by the FDA at those doses.
I don't miss a dose very often. Probably a late dose around once a month and a missed dose around twice a year. My combo system for keeping track is:
side note: My doc was straight up with me that we have no idea really how most of these drugs work. Sure we have some idea of some of their mechanisms, like ssris block certain transports, but we don’t know why that has the effect that it does (in a few people, I think last I checked the nnt for most if these drugs is four or more)(nnt=number needed to treat, or number of people in a general population of sufferers who will have to receive treatment before 1 person sees an effect. It’s a statistical statement on efficacy among individuals.) Recent evidence suggests seratonin may play no role in depression. Other recent evidence suggests that how much you believe your doctor also plays a big role in efficacy. This last is a hopeful sign for me: I’ve long marveled at how little we study the placebo effect-which is a real measurable effect. Also someone recently pointed out to me there is also a “no-cebo” effect, where disbelief inhibits a med’s efficacy.
Edit: Based on @sparksbet clarification, I wonder if these lingering symptoms could be explained by the nocebo effect, or at least some instances?
This is not what the nocebo effect is. The nocebo effect is when patient expectations lead to worsened symptoms or increased side effects. I am not aware of its being widely used for meds becoming less effective than otherwise due to patient expectations, at least not outside the degree to which worsened symptoms would count as less effective. Tbqh, I have never read anything about that phenomenon existing -- if it does, I suspect it has a different name than the nocebo effect.
Thanks for the clarification.
This shows as " Posted July 9 by unknown user". Is that a new feature?
I believe it means that they deleted their account
I don't trust medication much anymore. I had nasty side effects from abruptly stopping an ssri. They lasted 15y.
Stuff like that just shakes my trust in the medical industry.
This is not to say that people shouldn't take medicine for mental health maintenance or for anything else. But in general we are over medicated and treatment of chronic conditions is often lacking in western medicine.
Years ago I read "Saving Yourself From the Disease-Care Crisis" by Walt Stoll. This is an alternative medicine book with the premise that western medicine is excellent at treating acute issues but not good at prevention and long term maintenance. The book came out in 1996 at a time when it slightly fringe to make such a statement. Now it is more common to question medicine and there is an entire quack/grifter industry around it, and it is weaponized politically by the Republican party. This book isn't very quacky but maybe it has a few questionable things, like I think he may recommend chelation therapy for things it isn't proven to help.
Anyway, one of the points Stoll makes in the book is that Doctors prescribe too much medicine, and often in combinations that aren't tested. He makes a statement that is something like "if you are taking 3 medications, it's almost certainly better to take 0". Other famous (and respected) doctors such as John McDougall also spent a lot of time trying to get people to use diet and exercise in place of medication when possible.
Anyone remember who originally posted this? Now showing “unknown user.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20250710105010/https://tildes.net/~health.mental/1p0e/after_quitting_antidepressants_some_people_suffer_surprising_lingering_symptoms#comments
Interesting, I don’t remember them even though they were one of the OGs.
This makes me pretty concerned. I've been on escitalopram since 2018 ish and never had any negative side effects while on it, but it sounds like the longer I stay on it, the more I'm playing with fire. But if I stop I could have years long side effects, with no way to tell until I try to taper. I'll have to talk to my doctor at my next appointment. Very concerning.
As someone who just started cymbalta this week, this isn't the most comforting read. That said, I'm hoping that I don't need to be on it long term. I don't have a history of depression or anxiety, but my anxiety got absurdly bad over the summer when I was buying a house and it finally caught up to me about a month ago and I've been sick ever since with what I now think to be anxiety or panic attacks. I've been on cymbalta for 5 days now and am starting to feel like myself again, but I'm very much not interested in losing my feelings or anything like that long term, so I'm hoping that using this for a few months gets me back on track and then I can taper off (I'm on a very low dose right now).
I found it was one of the single most effective medications for my mood and anxiety, and I’ve tried a lot; I hope it does as well for you as it did for me.
This is all just some stranger’s opinion, but: don’t rush to get off it, or any medication that’s helping you; get yourself nicely situated and settled in your life. Panic has a nasty way of embedding itself in a cycle and being quick to return even after a good couple weeks or months—letting your mind and body fully acclimatise to stability and peace can do a lot of good for your long-term outcomes. In my experience, SNRIs like duloxetine/Cymbalta don’t do much “numbing” of feelings, and despite the article, longer-term discontinuation effects are relatively rare (and in any event tend to be more physiological than psychological).
Yeah, I'm not rushing to get off and if I need to be on these forever, so be it, but considering how quickly anxiety destroyed me this summer, I'm hoping I can overcome it. I'm already feeling much better after just a few days on it and I've heard it can take a few weeks to feel normal once you first start. It just makes me sad to have gone from being "perfectly fine" (in retrospect, I was not fine) to a complete mess in just a couple of months, but I've heard anxiety can really build in you and hit all at once.
Edit:
And to put it in perspective, I went from my normal life to trying to buy a house by myself, I had a different health scare this summer, elective surgery in spring, I had a ton of work related stress, and then for the 2 weeks I took to move and get settled, I was eating nothing but fast food and hadn't gone to the gym. About 2 weeks after I moved is when my health started declining. I was getting migraines, dizziness, lightheadedness, heart palpitations, and random pains and I was in the hospital three times. It seems to have all been anxiety related now that all of those symptoms are improving while on cymbalta. So I can see why my brain started freaking out even though I consciously felt fine once I was settled in the house.
Good to take the tapering seriously whenever you decide to discontinue duloxetine. I had brain zaps for a week or so following a cold turkey stop of it. I just didn’t take the need to taper seriously / am a bad patient lol. Cheers