Tbh whilst I’ve found the minimalist shoes help me a lot I always tell people to just try doing stuff without any shoes and see if they find it helps. Like doing squats deadlifts etc with shoes or...
Tbh whilst I’ve found the minimalist shoes help me a lot I always tell people to just try doing stuff without any shoes and see if they find it helps. Like doing squats deadlifts etc with shoes or stay at home without any shoes.
A lot of people in my life didn’t really notice a difference so they stuck with it. Some noticed less pain and made the switch. I think the problem is that these movements try to be a “one size” fits all kind of thing and that just doesn’t work.
Stretching out my feet and keeping my calves flexible is part of how I exercise, to future proof my body for old age. I primarily lift weights that target the muscles that are supposedly deeply at-risk because of my footwear, and do at-home yoga, which is accessible to anyone.
Practicing the asian squat (it's got a ton of names, but that one will show decent Google results) is also beneficial I find. It requires flexibility in the hips, ankles, glutes, ham, and calves...
Practicing the asian squat (it's got a ton of names, but that one will show decent Google results) is also beneficial I find. It requires flexibility in the hips, ankles, glutes, ham, and calves to properly do. Takes a while to be able to get all the way down but I've found it helps maintain flexibility.
On flexibility. It's not a skill that is earned and put away. You will immediately lose the flexibility you don't work to keep. So doing weird stretching routines might help work your way up, but you want to find some solid full body flexibility exercises to maintain it. Unless you like doing 2+ hours of yoga work daily.
Intro excerpt from the transcript: Remember when you learned in school about "foot binding" in Ancient China? Women would have their feet wrapped tightly to permanently change the shape of their...
Intro excerpt from the transcript:
[the] idea of a normal foot is one that's been inside a normal shoe for most its life and shoes are rounded at the front and kind of pointy, sometimes even pointier than the heel. Here's the thing - the toes are an extension of the bones in the foot and we're all born with toes that are pretty much straight in line with the metatarsals. So the foot is kind of shaped like a triangle with the toes being the widest part. In tropical countries, lots of people have never worn shoes, maybe just flip-flops or sandals, and they all have strong toes that are still in this natural alignment and are splayed out wider than the rest of their foot.
Remember when you learned in school about "foot binding" in Ancient China? Women would have their feet wrapped tightly to permanently change the shape of their feet to look more attractive/rich. We (in the western world at least) are apparently doing a minor version of the same thing with our modern pointy shoes. Our toes are pushed inwards which can reduce our ability to balance and cause medical issues like curled toes or bunions.
Found this video on a rather interesting concept. I'm not familiar with the channel, but it does seem well-reasoned and well-sourced. Is anyone familiar with the barefoot/minimalist shoe movement? Is this video a good explanation and recommending good products? Or is it youtube clickbait/sensationalism with a dose of affiliate links? Or somewhere in between?
I haven't watched the video, but this type of argument is based on conjecture and anecdotal evidence, and it's certainly not science. This "modern doctors dismissed me but I found an alternative...
I haven't watched the video, but this type of argument is based on conjecture and anecdotal evidence, and it's certainly not science.
This "modern doctors dismissed me but I found an alternative solution they are hiding from you" is very common in pseudoscience and very manipulative. This is the kind of logic that makes people do juice diet instead of cancer treatment, or injecting bleach instead of getting a vaccine.
From most of the research he linked this seems to be more a problem with people (and especially kids) wearing ill-fitting shoes rather than the shoe ahape being the problem. Aside from very egrigious examples such as pointy and high heeled shoes.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong - its hard to gauge whether a youtube video is accurately researching and extrapolating the right things from that research. But your comment seems to be in...
I don't think you're necessarily wrong - its hard to gauge whether a youtube video is accurately researching and extrapolating the right things from that research. But your comment seems to be in pretty bad faith.
I haven't watched the video, but this type of argument is based on conjecture and anecdotal evidence, and it's certainly not science.
How can you refute the argument as conjecture/anecdotal evidence/not science if you haven't even watched the video? Again, you may be right or you may be wrong - but IMO commenting without watching the video is mostly adding noise to the conversation without meaningfully contributing.
This "modern doctors dismissed me but I found an alternative solution they are hiding from you" is very common in pseudoscience and very manipulative. This is the kind of logic that makes people do juice diet instead of cancer treatment, or injecting bleach instead of getting a vaccine.
While definitely something to be wary of - modern science and tradition aren't inherently correct either. Identifying something as a possible bad assumption and then doing the research to check if it is an assumption is very much science.
The hyperbolic comparisons to juice diets as cancer treatment and injecting bleach instead of vaccines are also way over the top. Is the suggestion that wearing a shoe with a wider toebox really as dangerous as your examples? And those two have no logic backing them up, while this shoe conversation follows a train of logic and seems to have some research behind it.
From most of the research he linked this seems to be more a problem with people (and especially kids) wearing ill-fitting shoes rather than the shoe ahape being the problem. Aside from very egrigious examples such as pointy and high heeled shoes.
One of the points of the video is that our "standard" shoe shape is ill-fitting. Only 1 of the 21 sources (#5) seems to be specifically focused on kids wearing shoes that are 1-2 sizes too small.
Sorry if this comes off as combative, but not watching the video and then dismissing it entirely isn't really adding to the conversation. You may be right and there are bad sources and/or bad science...but this comment comes off as bad faith.
I think the above person makes a somewhat valid point even without having seen any of the video. This quote Can be criticized without having seen the rest of the video. The framing of this...
I think the above person makes a somewhat valid point even without having seen any of the video.
This quote
..none of [the best foot doctors in NYC] noticed anything wrong with my foot, but their idea of a normal foot is one that's been inside a normal shoe for most its life and shoes are rounded at the front and kind of pointy, sometimes even pointier than the heel.
Can be criticized without having seen the rest of the video. The framing of this precludes any possibility of the writer being wrong. If doctors found something wrong, the writer is right. If the doctors don't find anything wrong, which they apparently didn't, it's because doctors are all brainwashed and their judgement can't be trusted.
You can call out that as being arguing in bad faith without having to see anything else, and that pretty much is what the above person was calling out.
That bit is a personal anecdote from the presenter to introduce the topic. This video is not about the presenter's foot injury and it isn't mentioned again after the ~30s intro. Perhaps I should...
That bit is a personal anecdote from the presenter to introduce the topic. This video is not about the presenter's foot injury and it isn't mentioned again after the ~30s intro.
Perhaps I should have left the quick blurb as "[the] idea of a normal foot is one that's been inside a normal shoe for most its life and shoes are rounded at the front and kind of pointy, sometimes even pointier than the heel." But the blurb is mostly there to give a bit more context due to the clickbait title. If the poster watched the video, they would know that it isn't about the presenter's foot injury.
You can certainly make the argument that the personal anecdote isn't really helpful and feels like a forced introduction...but it is a 30s intro bit in a 20 minute video.
Yeah, I'll totally admit I didn't watch any more of the video than the above person did, but at the same time nothing about that quote makes me think I want to.
Yeah, I'll totally admit I didn't watch any more of the video than the above person did, but at the same time nothing about that quote makes me think I want to.
Thats totally valid - if it doesn't sound interesting to you, then don't watch it. But maybe don't jump into the conversation. One of the biggest things i like about tildes over (most of) reddit...
Thats totally valid - if it doesn't sound interesting to you, then don't watch it. But maybe don't jump into the conversation.
One of the biggest things i like about tildes over (most of) reddit is that generally folks watch the videos or read the articles before jumping in.
Also, the way of science is not through random youtube videos. If they have such an extraordinary claim, they should have an extraordinary evidence in the form of hard science papers, articles.
Also, the way of science is not through random youtube videos. If they have such an extraordinary claim, they should have an extraordinary evidence in the form of hard science papers, articles.
The youtube video isn't trying to be a research dissertation. It's just trying to encourage people to buy different shaped shoes. In order to properly research this, well we're going to need data....
The youtube video isn't trying to be a research dissertation. It's just trying to encourage people to buy different shaped shoes. In order to properly research this, well we're going to need data. It's obvious that the modern shoe isn't so god awful that no one should wear them, that would be noticed by now. But we don't have much data from any other shoe type as, well, people aren't wearing them. So the path to researching this is going to require people who have worn a different shoe shape for a large portion of their lives. Then we can do longitudinal studies to see what the long term benefits are.
Since the recommendation from the youtuber isn't dangerous or even that different from normal life, there's no reason to be aggressively against the concept. It would be no different than a long blurb about how hats today are fit too tightly and we should wear looser fitting hats.
The problem with this argument is that the wide shoe movement is far from new This company for example has existed since the 1950's! From all the research I could find, it's true that narrow shoes...
The problem with this argument is that the wide shoe movement is far from new
From all the research I could find, it's true that narrow shoes have detrimental effects on your feet, but the shoe doesn't need to be especially wide to avoid these effects. For example look at this study from 1993.
I went straight to his sources, sure, maybe I should hear what he has to say on top of it (although, why? This dude isn't any type of expert or doctor). TBH this is far from the first time I hear...
I went straight to his sources, sure, maybe I should hear what he has to say on top of it (although, why? This dude isn't any type of expert or doctor).
TBH this is far from the first time I hear about this wide ahoe movement, and from everything I've seen it's a trend similar to many other health fads. There's a small core of truth at the root of it, but the solution is either overblown, way too expensive or snake-oil.
And at the end of the day this attitude, thinking you are more knowledgeable than the entire medical community because you read some articles online and have some anecdotal evidence to back that up, IS the train of logic people use to justify a whole range of whack pseudoscience.
You can call it bad faith, but I've seen more than a few videos like this: trying to scare the viewer into buying a product they most likely don't need, might not solve their problem (if they have ones to begin with) and making profit of of it. The fact they used affiliate links is a huge red flag.
So, coming back around, after I've read the sourced articles, what do you think I have to Gain from watching the video?
Reading all the sources is great. Maybe you won't get anything from the video. Maybe you'll hear something different about how the sources are connected together. Maybe you'll hear something...
So, coming back around, after I've read the sourced articles, what do you think I have to Gain from watching the video?
Reading all the sources is great. Maybe you won't get anything from the video. Maybe you'll hear something different about how the sources are connected together. Maybe you'll hear something clearly false, misleading, or suspect. But until you watch the video, you won't know.
And honestly thats fine. If you aren't interested in the video, don't watch the video. But maybe don't jump into the conversation about the video until you've watched it? Watching a 20 minute video (only 10 mins if you watch at 2x!) is a pretty low bar.
I'm not really interested in the video, the title tells me all I need to know about the poster and what they are trying to achieve with this. But also, going back to my original comment, I can...
I'm not really interested in the video, the title tells me all I need to know about the poster and what they are trying to achieve with this.
But also, going back to my original comment, I can certainly judge quotes and intentions without watching the whole thing.
Agreed. Feels like these people just used to wear shoes that were too small and never considered the possibility of wearing shoes that fit properly. As if modern medicine has never examined an...
Agreed. Feels like these people just used to wear shoes that were too small and never considered the possibility of wearing shoes that fit properly. As if modern medicine has never examined an unshod foot.
For me, it's difficult to find shoes that fit properly because my feet are wide. I don't think they even look that wide, it's just that most shoes are made so narrow. I'd imagine this is the case...
Feels like these people just used to wear shoes that were too small and never considered the possibility of wearing shoes that fit properly.
For me, it's difficult to find shoes that fit properly because my feet are wide. I don't think they even look that wide, it's just that most shoes are made so narrow. I'd imagine this is the case for more people than just me. I'm also a woman, and, as the video points out, women's shoes are commonly pointier and daintier than men's. Shoe shopping is a frustrating experience.
It'd be nice to find a cross between these barefoot shoes and "normal" shoes, I just want some wider shoe options, I don't want no soles.
Good suggestions, thank you! I am a 7.5 US women's shoe, so unfortunately it's tough to find men's shoes that small in stores. Online shopping would work though!
Good suggestions, thank you! I am a 7.5 US women's shoe, so unfortunately it's tough to find men's shoes that small in stores. Online shopping would work though!
There are shoes of all widths and shapes. You won't be likely to see them in stores near you, but you can get them online. There are honestly so many niche brands. This feels like a case where...
There are shoes of all widths and shapes. You won't be likely to see them in stores near you, but you can get them online. There are honestly so many niche brands. This feels like a case where describing your problem to ChatGPT could probably be really helpful.
I cannot personally recommend all the brands shown because I haven't worn them (though I'm testing a pair of Vivo that I do like, consider Revivo for a minor cost drop) - I am looking at getting a...
I cannot personally recommend all the brands shown because I haven't worn them (though I'm testing a pair of Vivo that I do like, consider Revivo for a minor cost drop) - I am looking at getting a winter pair though as it gets nearer in Pittsburgh.
However, I generally only wear "barefoot" shoes and I like Merrell Vapor Glove a lot, like enough that I've purchased the gen3 variant a dozen+ times or more over the last decade. I tried and hated the gen4 (they reduced the toe box to be pointed for some reason) and have tried other variants but similar ish designs. I also just got the gen5 and I like it a lot too but only just got them the other week so still working it thru. I haven't tried the gen6 yet.
My pro list is that they are extremely lightweight, compress very well for adding to a luggage bag edge packing, moderate grip for weird surfaces (they use climbing shoe rubber) and the toe box of course. My cons are they don't last super well, don't expect to be able to walk super long distances in comfort on city paths (though I've done six~ten miles every day in Rome in them), avoid large rock gravel roads (it can be like walking on legos barefoot), also I have so many because I wear them to the falling apart though and just rotate thru them to get them to last a bit longer or at least feel like I do. I have a pair that I use for "everything that just requires shoes" like grocery/errands shopping, travel, etc and other pairs for hiking/approach/kayaking/house work, and others that are my "dress casual".
I've largely fallen into this preference for two reasons, I grew up barefoot ~90% of the time, until late teens, unless I was in school or church and when I was a kid I had a corrective surgery on my feet due to how they were growing (I think it would have been like club foot and they replaced bones in my foot to prevent it) post-surgery recovery had me in corrective shoes for years with a super wide toe box up front. I would also get wide skater shoes as they were always comfy but weighed so much and any tight toe box shoes just hurt regardless of how much I would "wear them in". When I discovered this trend since the Vibram five toe shoes which I tried and did not like and was really happy when Merrell started to make mostly regular design but with this super wide toe boxes too. I'm also a guy that buys the same thing over and over again when the article fits my needs, but I do like to explore when it comes back around to buying new again.
My partner likes to comment on my calves as well. I'm a bigger guy but have a lot of definition in my calves which I have to kind of assume is just from always wearing these shoes as it changes how you walk with ground strikes from the mid and toe over heel on regular shoes. I don't do a lot of jogging or running though I have before so it's largely all from walking.
I can relate to this video. My toes are a little jacked up from being poor and not getting shoes every growth spurt (Shout out to duct tape, shoe life extender) so my small toes kind of point in...
I can relate to this video. My toes are a little jacked up from being poor and not getting shoes every growth spurt (Shout out to duct tape, shoe life extender) so my small toes kind of point in towards the big toe and I had some other foot problems as well but the barrier becomes finding shoes that work with my jacked up feet and also don't hurt my knees.
Like, I don't want to be rocking my running shoes everywhere but my Converse are honestly probably doing my feet worse at this point. I also don't want to drop close to half a grip getting tested at the fancy running shoe store and getting upsold on the latest model Brooks because I don't know what I actually need.
Plus, most shoes that fit me well I hate the look of.
I can relate in the opposite direction. I abhor shoes and avoid them as much as possible. When I'm forced to cram my feet into them I wear 1-3 sizes up, a practice that I started in about middle...
I can relate in the opposite direction. I abhor shoes and avoid them as much as possible. When I'm forced to cram my feet into them I wear 1-3 sizes up, a practice that I started in about middle school because the awful things were so uncomfortable. When I wear sandals, I don't even allow them to have much in the way of "support" on either side of my toes, because that will be too narrow. It's gotta be pretty damn close to a flip-flop or I'm not ok with it.
Winter boots tend to be more ok because they afford space for think socks, so I wear thin socks and then I have the space I need, so living in a cold climate I try to go sandals -> directly to winter boots when it's too cold for sandals. But I really want to move back to somewhere warm (went to college in SoCal) so I can stop wearing shoes altogether again.
Anyway, watched the first ~7 minutes of this video and it was super validating.
I've been to pricy running room stores for fancy gait assessments at the urging of a buddy who runs marathons and swears by then. My impression is that the 'professional' opinion very greatly...
I've been to pricy running room stores for fancy gait assessments at the urging of a buddy who runs marathons and swears by then. My impression is that the 'professional' opinion very greatly vaires: one felt like teenager making stuff up and the other was just up selling me commission of the month items. I've also been to a licensed podiatrist and it came down to "let's order you whatever you want in your size and I'll sign the thing to get insurance to pay". This was the best of the lot because he used the standard thing to measure my size and is willing to order small and wide.
My advice if you ever do want to get a good pie of running shoes: always get a year or two old model, stores try to get rid of them and they can be more than half off. Also, if you aren’t running...
My advice if you ever do want to get a good pie of running shoes: always get a year or two old model, stores try to get rid of them and they can be more than half off. Also, if you aren’t running all the time, they’ll last you a couple years, I paid for a pair of sauconys in 2019 and even though I run, I’m only having to think about replacing them now.
I've worn minimalist shoes for about two years. I was able to go completely barefoot in the garden for several hours every day this summer. I don't try to convert anyone in my personal life, but I...
I've worn minimalist shoes for about two years. I was able to go completely barefoot in the garden for several hours every day this summer. I don't try to convert anyone in my personal life, but I have been stung on the bottom of of my foot 3 times this year and I still won't give up going bare foot.
I have this problem every time I buy shoes. I've taken to only buying Hoka One One shoes now because even their standard width is much wider than most shoes. I've always had wider feet than most...
I have this problem every time I buy shoes. I've taken to only buying Hoka One One shoes now because even their standard width is much wider than most shoes. I've always had wider feet than most of my peers. I used to dance ballet en pointe and would have the widest shoes possible and they were still a little tight for my feet.
I can relate to the pain, quite literally. My feet are wider than most women, so finding wide shoes can be a hassle. I sometimes end up getting a half-size up. Years ago a foot doctor recommended...
I can relate to the pain, quite literally. My feet are wider than most women, so finding wide shoes can be a hassle. I sometimes end up getting a half-size up. Years ago a foot doctor recommended some specific brands suited for lots of activity that AREN'T tennis shoes or made for outdoors, and we had to entirely write off one of those brands because they were just all too narrow. I still need to get new shoes for that purpose because I wore out the old ones, but finding stores that sell stuff that would work is a challenge. I can't just buy shoes online, I have to be able to physically try them on.
That said, if you need shoes for activity, try looking for The Walking Company. That's where I got the shoes my doctor recommended (went with Dansko by the way), and they had a decent selection. The nearest one to me shut down during the pandemic unfortunately, or I'd go back. The other tip I have is to go to a locally owned, highly rated shoe store, where the workers will actually know shoes. We did that, and the worker recommended me a couple of brands and I ended up with a New Balance 1540 V2. Years later when I needed to replace it due to being worn out, I ended up getting the exact same one in a different color.
That said, I have had pretty much zero luck with shoes for formal events. Those designers seem to especially love the idea that all women have dainty, narrow feet...
I have wide feet, and they are also tall due to high arches. I use Redback boots as my daily shoes because they are technically men's shoes (so shaped more wide and tall relative to length), but...
I have wide feet, and they are also tall due to high arches. I use Redback boots as my daily shoes because they are technically men's shoes (so shaped more wide and tall relative to length), but still come in smaller sizes—and even half sizes.
I feel bad for my partner, though, because he has very wide and tall feet even for a man, and he also requires a very large shoe size (15 in US sizing). Most shoes don't come in that size, and the ones that do don't come in wider/taller variants, so he has not had a comfortable shoe experience since he was a kid. Not only that, but his shoe size is more expensive than common shoe sizes, and he also wears them out faster. He goes three 3-4 pairs in the time that I go through 1, and each of his are around twice as expensive as mine.
I also go through shoes quickly. I blame it on my dancer's feet. I am so sorry your husband has to deal with that! It's absurd that he can't just get comfortable shoes.
I also go through shoes quickly. I blame it on my dancer's feet. I am so sorry your husband has to deal with that! It's absurd that he can't just get comfortable shoes.
I had this weird experience a couple years ago. I always thought I had small feet.. wore something like a size 8-9 most of my life. Then a friend gave me a pair of size 10 shoes that he didn't...
I had this weird experience a couple years ago. I always thought I had small feet.. wore something like a size 8-9 most of my life. Then a friend gave me a pair of size 10 shoes that he didn't want and I was shocked that they fit... I've changed my preferred size to 10-11 and have no idea how I wore those previous sizes. I expect just years of conditioning.
I rarely wore shoes growing up (homeschooled and grew up in the south), hated shoes so much that I'd walk around barefoot over gravel and worse. I still don't wear shoes much now since I'm a cozy...
I rarely wore shoes growing up (homeschooled and grew up in the south), hated shoes so much that I'd walk around barefoot over gravel and worse.
I still don't wear shoes much now since I'm a cozy WFH lazy computer jockey, not sure if my feet look different from more "normal" people, but I'd say I've probably only worn shoes for at most 10% of my life, probably less.
As someone who grew up wearing flip flops most of the time, one downside to wearing shoes these days is that my feet have a tendency to bore a hole in the shoe by my pinky toe over time.
As someone who grew up wearing flip flops most of the time, one downside to wearing shoes these days is that my feet have a tendency to bore a hole in the shoe by my pinky toe over time.
As a person with extra wide feet according to boot sizing in the army I'm well aware most shoes are too narrow. the only comfortable pair of shoes were those army boots sadly. I try all of the...
As a person with extra wide feet according to boot sizing in the army I'm well aware most shoes are too narrow. the only comfortable pair of shoes were those army boots sadly. I try all of the shoes labeled as wide in the shoe store and most all of them are too tight for the size i need them to be.
My shoes always have been one size too large as the width otherwise didn't fit. Not even talking about the toes. I had been looking for extra wide shoes for years but regular shoe stores just...
My shoes always have been one size too large as the width otherwise didn't fit. Not even talking about the toes. I had been looking for extra wide shoes for years but regular shoe stores just don't have them. It got to the point I dread the day of shoe shopping.Thanks to this video I knew the keywords to find a shop with shoes that actually fit my feet. Thanks
I will shamelessly shill for Xero Shoes. I've been buying their stuff since they only made sandals, and the Prio, one of their shoe mainstays, is my favorite shoe ever.they cost like $90, however....
I will shamelessly shill for Xero Shoes. I've been buying their stuff since they only made sandals, and the Prio, one of their shoe mainstays, is my favorite shoe ever.they cost like $90, however.
If you're 13 or smaller, Whitin and Tesla, both chinese companies that sell on Amazon, make great shoes as well.
It's pretty much up to the person that's doing the editing. If you're looking for common patterns of changes to preempt an edit, check the topic log on the right of an already existing thread.
It's pretty much up to the person that's doing the editing. If you're looking for common patterns of changes to preempt an edit, check the topic log on the right of an already existing thread.
Tbh whilst I’ve found the minimalist shoes help me a lot I always tell people to just try doing stuff without any shoes and see if they find it helps. Like doing squats deadlifts etc with shoes or stay at home without any shoes.
A lot of people in my life didn’t really notice a difference so they stuck with it. Some noticed less pain and made the switch. I think the problem is that these movements try to be a “one size” fits all kind of thing and that just doesn’t work.
Can you provide a little more detail on this?
Practicing the asian squat (it's got a ton of names, but that one will show decent Google results) is also beneficial I find. It requires flexibility in the hips, ankles, glutes, ham, and calves to properly do. Takes a while to be able to get all the way down but I've found it helps maintain flexibility.
On flexibility. It's not a skill that is earned and put away. You will immediately lose the flexibility you don't work to keep. So doing weird stretching routines might help work your way up, but you want to find some solid full body flexibility exercises to maintain it. Unless you like doing 2+ hours of yoga work daily.
Asian squat a.k.a. Slav Squat.
It's found in every culture with a lot of poverty and has been named after them. It's just a natural resting position that keeps you out of the dirt.
You are preaching to the choir. I was merely pointing out is has a more common name with plenty of memes about it.
Intro excerpt from the transcript:
Remember when you learned in school about "foot binding" in Ancient China? Women would have their feet wrapped tightly to permanently change the shape of their feet to look more attractive/rich. We (in the western world at least) are apparently doing a minor version of the same thing with our modern pointy shoes. Our toes are pushed inwards which can reduce our ability to balance and cause medical issues like curled toes or bunions.
Found this video on a rather interesting concept. I'm not familiar with the channel, but it does seem well-reasoned and well-sourced. Is anyone familiar with the barefoot/minimalist shoe movement? Is this video a good explanation and recommending good products? Or is it youtube clickbait/sensationalism with a dose of affiliate links? Or somewhere in between?
I haven't watched the video, but this type of argument is based on conjecture and anecdotal evidence, and it's certainly not science.
This "modern doctors dismissed me but I found an alternative solution they are hiding from you" is very common in pseudoscience and very manipulative. This is the kind of logic that makes people do juice diet instead of cancer treatment, or injecting bleach instead of getting a vaccine.
From most of the research he linked this seems to be more a problem with people (and especially kids) wearing ill-fitting shoes rather than the shoe ahape being the problem. Aside from very egrigious examples such as pointy and high heeled shoes.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong - its hard to gauge whether a youtube video is accurately researching and extrapolating the right things from that research. But your comment seems to be in pretty bad faith.
How can you refute the argument as conjecture/anecdotal evidence/not science if you haven't even watched the video? Again, you may be right or you may be wrong - but IMO commenting without watching the video is mostly adding noise to the conversation without meaningfully contributing.
While definitely something to be wary of - modern science and tradition aren't inherently correct either. Identifying something as a possible bad assumption and then doing the research to check if it is an assumption is very much science.
The hyperbolic comparisons to juice diets as cancer treatment and injecting bleach instead of vaccines are also way over the top. Is the suggestion that wearing a shoe with a wider toebox really as dangerous as your examples? And those two have no logic backing them up, while this shoe conversation follows a train of logic and seems to have some research behind it.
One of the points of the video is that our "standard" shoe shape is ill-fitting. Only 1 of the 21 sources (#5) seems to be specifically focused on kids wearing shoes that are 1-2 sizes too small.
Sorry if this comes off as combative, but not watching the video and then dismissing it entirely isn't really adding to the conversation. You may be right and there are bad sources and/or bad science...but this comment comes off as bad faith.
I think the above person makes a somewhat valid point even without having seen any of the video.
This quote
Can be criticized without having seen the rest of the video. The framing of this precludes any possibility of the writer being wrong. If doctors found something wrong, the writer is right. If the doctors don't find anything wrong, which they apparently didn't, it's because doctors are all brainwashed and their judgement can't be trusted.
You can call out that as being arguing in bad faith without having to see anything else, and that pretty much is what the above person was calling out.
That bit is a personal anecdote from the presenter to introduce the topic. This video is not about the presenter's foot injury and it isn't mentioned again after the ~30s intro.
Perhaps I should have left the quick blurb as "[the] idea of a normal foot is one that's been inside a normal shoe for most its life and shoes are rounded at the front and kind of pointy, sometimes even pointier than the heel." But the blurb is mostly there to give a bit more context due to the clickbait title. If the poster watched the video, they would know that it isn't about the presenter's foot injury.
You can certainly make the argument that the personal anecdote isn't really helpful and feels like a forced introduction...but it is a 30s intro bit in a 20 minute video.
Yeah, I'll totally admit I didn't watch any more of the video than the above person did, but at the same time nothing about that quote makes me think I want to.
Thats totally valid - if it doesn't sound interesting to you, then don't watch it. But maybe don't jump into the conversation.
One of the biggest things i like about tildes over (most of) reddit is that generally folks watch the videos or read the articles before jumping in.
Fair.
Absolutely
Ill add that I did go and read most of the linked sources instead
Also, the way of science is not through random youtube videos. If they have such an extraordinary claim, they should have an extraordinary evidence in the form of hard science papers, articles.
The youtube video isn't trying to be a research dissertation. It's just trying to encourage people to buy different shaped shoes. In order to properly research this, well we're going to need data. It's obvious that the modern shoe isn't so god awful that no one should wear them, that would be noticed by now. But we don't have much data from any other shoe type as, well, people aren't wearing them. So the path to researching this is going to require people who have worn a different shoe shape for a large portion of their lives. Then we can do longitudinal studies to see what the long term benefits are.
Since the recommendation from the youtuber isn't dangerous or even that different from normal life, there's no reason to be aggressively against the concept. It would be no different than a long blurb about how hats today are fit too tightly and we should wear looser fitting hats.
The problem with this argument is that the wide shoe movement is far from new
This company for example has existed since the 1950's!
From all the research I could find, it's true that narrow shoes have detrimental effects on your feet, but the shoe doesn't need to be especially wide to avoid these effects. For example look at this study from 1993.
I went straight to his sources, sure, maybe I should hear what he has to say on top of it (although, why? This dude isn't any type of expert or doctor).
TBH this is far from the first time I hear about this wide ahoe movement, and from everything I've seen it's a trend similar to many other health fads. There's a small core of truth at the root of it, but the solution is either overblown, way too expensive or snake-oil.
And at the end of the day this attitude, thinking you are more knowledgeable than the entire medical community because you read some articles online and have some anecdotal evidence to back that up, IS the train of logic people use to justify a whole range of whack pseudoscience.
You can call it bad faith, but I've seen more than a few videos like this: trying to scare the viewer into buying a product they most likely don't need, might not solve their problem (if they have ones to begin with) and making profit of of it. The fact they used affiliate links is a huge red flag.
So, coming back around, after I've read the sourced articles, what do you think I have to Gain from watching the video?
Reading all the sources is great. Maybe you won't get anything from the video. Maybe you'll hear something different about how the sources are connected together. Maybe you'll hear something clearly false, misleading, or suspect. But until you watch the video, you won't know.
And honestly thats fine. If you aren't interested in the video, don't watch the video. But maybe don't jump into the conversation about the video until you've watched it? Watching a 20 minute video (only 10 mins if you watch at 2x!) is a pretty low bar.
I'm not really interested in the video, the title tells me all I need to know about the poster and what they are trying to achieve with this.
But also, going back to my original comment, I can certainly judge quotes and intentions without watching the whole thing.
Agreed. Feels like these people just used to wear shoes that were too small and never considered the possibility of wearing shoes that fit properly. As if modern medicine has never examined an unshod foot.
For me, it's difficult to find shoes that fit properly because my feet are wide. I don't think they even look that wide, it's just that most shoes are made so narrow. I'd imagine this is the case for more people than just me. I'm also a woman, and, as the video points out, women's shoes are commonly pointier and daintier than men's. Shoe shopping is a frustrating experience.
It'd be nice to find a cross between these barefoot shoes and "normal" shoes, I just want some wider shoe options, I don't want no soles.
Good suggestions, thank you! I am a 7.5 US women's shoe, so unfortunately it's tough to find men's shoes that small in stores. Online shopping would work though!
There are shoes of all widths and shapes. You won't be likely to see them in stores near you, but you can get them online. There are honestly so many niche brands. This feels like a case where describing your problem to ChatGPT could probably be really helpful.
I cannot personally recommend all the brands shown because I haven't worn them (though I'm testing a pair of Vivo that I do like, consider Revivo for a minor cost drop) - I am looking at getting a winter pair though as it gets nearer in Pittsburgh.
However, I generally only wear "barefoot" shoes and I like Merrell Vapor Glove a lot, like enough that I've purchased the gen3 variant a dozen+ times or more over the last decade. I tried and hated the gen4 (they reduced the toe box to be pointed for some reason) and have tried other variants but similar ish designs. I also just got the gen5 and I like it a lot too but only just got them the other week so still working it thru. I haven't tried the gen6 yet.
My pro list is that they are extremely lightweight, compress very well for adding to a luggage bag edge packing, moderate grip for weird surfaces (they use climbing shoe rubber) and the toe box of course. My cons are they don't last super well, don't expect to be able to walk super long distances in comfort on city paths (though I've done six~ten miles every day in Rome in them), avoid large rock gravel roads (it can be like walking on legos barefoot), also I have so many because I wear them to the falling apart though and just rotate thru them to get them to last a bit longer or at least feel like I do. I have a pair that I use for "everything that just requires shoes" like grocery/errands shopping, travel, etc and other pairs for hiking/approach/kayaking/house work, and others that are my "dress casual".
I've largely fallen into this preference for two reasons, I grew up barefoot ~90% of the time, until late teens, unless I was in school or church and when I was a kid I had a corrective surgery on my feet due to how they were growing (I think it would have been like club foot and they replaced bones in my foot to prevent it) post-surgery recovery had me in corrective shoes for years with a super wide toe box up front. I would also get wide skater shoes as they were always comfy but weighed so much and any tight toe box shoes just hurt regardless of how much I would "wear them in". When I discovered this trend since the Vibram five toe shoes which I tried and did not like and was really happy when Merrell started to make mostly regular design but with this super wide toe boxes too. I'm also a guy that buys the same thing over and over again when the article fits my needs, but I do like to explore when it comes back around to buying new again.
My partner likes to comment on my calves as well. I'm a bigger guy but have a lot of definition in my calves which I have to kind of assume is just from always wearing these shoes as it changes how you walk with ground strikes from the mid and toe over heel on regular shoes. I don't do a lot of jogging or running though I have before so it's largely all from walking.
I can relate to this video. My toes are a little jacked up from being poor and not getting shoes every growth spurt (Shout out to duct tape, shoe life extender) so my small toes kind of point in towards the big toe and I had some other foot problems as well but the barrier becomes finding shoes that work with my jacked up feet and also don't hurt my knees.
Like, I don't want to be rocking my running shoes everywhere but my Converse are honestly probably doing my feet worse at this point. I also don't want to drop close to half a grip getting tested at the fancy running shoe store and getting upsold on the latest model Brooks because I don't know what I actually need.
Plus, most shoes that fit me well I hate the look of.
I can relate in the opposite direction. I abhor shoes and avoid them as much as possible. When I'm forced to cram my feet into them I wear 1-3 sizes up, a practice that I started in about middle school because the awful things were so uncomfortable. When I wear sandals, I don't even allow them to have much in the way of "support" on either side of my toes, because that will be too narrow. It's gotta be pretty damn close to a flip-flop or I'm not ok with it.
Winter boots tend to be more ok because they afford space for think socks, so I wear thin socks and then I have the space I need, so living in a cold climate I try to go sandals -> directly to winter boots when it's too cold for sandals. But I really want to move back to somewhere warm (went to college in SoCal) so I can stop wearing shoes altogether again.
Anyway, watched the first ~7 minutes of this video and it was super validating.
I've been to pricy running room stores for fancy gait assessments at the urging of a buddy who runs marathons and swears by then. My impression is that the 'professional' opinion very greatly vaires: one felt like teenager making stuff up and the other was just up selling me commission of the month items. I've also been to a licensed podiatrist and it came down to "let's order you whatever you want in your size and I'll sign the thing to get insurance to pay". This was the best of the lot because he used the standard thing to measure my size and is willing to order small and wide.
Go see a few different people I guess.
My advice if you ever do want to get a good pie of running shoes: always get a year or two old model, stores try to get rid of them and they can be more than half off. Also, if you aren’t running all the time, they’ll last you a couple years, I paid for a pair of sauconys in 2019 and even though I run, I’m only having to think about replacing them now.
I've worn minimalist shoes for about two years. I was able to go completely barefoot in the garden for several hours every day this summer. I don't try to convert anyone in my personal life, but I have been stung on the bottom of of my foot 3 times this year and I still won't give up going bare foot.
I have this problem every time I buy shoes. I've taken to only buying Hoka One One shoes now because even their standard width is much wider than most shoes. I've always had wider feet than most of my peers. I used to dance ballet en pointe and would have the widest shoes possible and they were still a little tight for my feet.
I can relate to the pain, quite literally. My feet are wider than most women, so finding wide shoes can be a hassle. I sometimes end up getting a half-size up. Years ago a foot doctor recommended some specific brands suited for lots of activity that AREN'T tennis shoes or made for outdoors, and we had to entirely write off one of those brands because they were just all too narrow. I still need to get new shoes for that purpose because I wore out the old ones, but finding stores that sell stuff that would work is a challenge. I can't just buy shoes online, I have to be able to physically try them on.
That said, if you need shoes for activity, try looking for The Walking Company. That's where I got the shoes my doctor recommended (went with Dansko by the way), and they had a decent selection. The nearest one to me shut down during the pandemic unfortunately, or I'd go back. The other tip I have is to go to a locally owned, highly rated shoe store, where the workers will actually know shoes. We did that, and the worker recommended me a couple of brands and I ended up with a New Balance 1540 V2. Years later when I needed to replace it due to being worn out, I ended up getting the exact same one in a different color.
That said, I have had pretty much zero luck with shoes for formal events. Those designers seem to especially love the idea that all women have dainty, narrow feet...
I have wide feet, and they are also tall due to high arches. I use Redback boots as my daily shoes because they are technically men's shoes (so shaped more wide and tall relative to length), but still come in smaller sizes—and even half sizes.
I feel bad for my partner, though, because he has very wide and tall feet even for a man, and he also requires a very large shoe size (15 in US sizing). Most shoes don't come in that size, and the ones that do don't come in wider/taller variants, so he has not had a comfortable shoe experience since he was a kid. Not only that, but his shoe size is more expensive than common shoe sizes, and he also wears them out faster. He goes three 3-4 pairs in the time that I go through 1, and each of his are around twice as expensive as mine.
I also go through shoes quickly. I blame it on my dancer's feet. I am so sorry your husband has to deal with that! It's absurd that he can't just get comfortable shoes.
I had this weird experience a couple years ago. I always thought I had small feet.. wore something like a size 8-9 most of my life. Then a friend gave me a pair of size 10 shoes that he didn't want and I was shocked that they fit... I've changed my preferred size to 10-11 and have no idea how I wore those previous sizes. I expect just years of conditioning.
I rarely wore shoes growing up (homeschooled and grew up in the south), hated shoes so much that I'd walk around barefoot over gravel and worse.
I still don't wear shoes much now since I'm a cozy WFH lazy computer jockey, not sure if my feet look different from more "normal" people, but I'd say I've probably only worn shoes for at most 10% of my life, probably less.
He didn’t cover sandals, I’ve been thinking of getting a pair and it seems to me some of them are meant to prevent this sort of thing.
As someone who grew up wearing flip flops most of the time, one downside to wearing shoes these days is that my feet have a tendency to bore a hole in the shoe by my pinky toe over time.
As a person with extra wide feet according to boot sizing in the army I'm well aware most shoes are too narrow. the only comfortable pair of shoes were those army boots sadly. I try all of the shoes labeled as wide in the shoe store and most all of them are too tight for the size i need them to be.
it sucks having extra wide AND short feet.
My shoes always have been one size too large as the width otherwise didn't fit. Not even talking about the toes. I had been looking for extra wide shoes for years but regular shoe stores just don't have them. It got to the point I dread the day of shoe shopping.Thanks to this video I knew the keywords to find a shop with shoes that actually fit my feet. Thanks
I will shamelessly shill for Xero Shoes. I've been buying their stuff since they only made sandals, and the Prio, one of their shoe mainstays, is my favorite shoe ever.they cost like $90, however.
If you're 13 or smaller, Whitin and Tesla, both chinese companies that sell on Amazon, make great shoes as well.
Can we get a non-clickbait title please?
I took the title directly from the youtube video. Maybe one of the admins can add an addition like " - A video on how our shoes are too narrow"
I have updated the title for you.
Amazing, ty!
That would have never happened on reddit! Off-topic, but are there any rules for admins on when to change the title, or some sort of editorial board?
It's pretty much up to the person that's doing the editing. If you're looking for common patterns of changes to preempt an edit, check the topic log on the right of an already existing thread.
Thanks - refreshingly transparent to have the log right there.