I find this to be truer as time goes on; when I'm writing I still pull out a semicolon from time to time, but find it looks unnatural in some cases—particularly in quoted dialogue, where I'd...
I find this to be truer as time goes on; when I'm writing I still pull out a semicolon from time to time, but find it looks unnatural in some cases—particularly in quoted dialogue, where I'd rather see an em-dash or a period. I've grown a fondness for the em-dash, coming from exposure to books, articles, and visual novels that tend to use them everywhere.
Risking opening up a can of worms talking about LLMs now: LLMs seem to have a strong preference for the em-dash as well, so the downside of using em-dash is people might think you're using an LLM to write—which I don't, not for English. I generally don't care if people use LLMs to write better, but I also don't want to be unfairly judged by the people who do look down on others using those tools. (That said, I do dislike when people use LLMs to pad out their writing unnecessarily long, or to create slop to sell an idea, or win an Internet argument by trying to appear smarter.)
But an em-dash fills a different role—to emphasize—rather than deemphasize (as in the case with parentheses). While the role of a semicolon is to indicate a connection between two clauses; to...
But an em-dash fills a different role—to emphasize—rather than deemphasize (as in the case with parentheses). While the role of a semicolon is to indicate a connection between two clauses; to separate two thoughts which could be sentences independently.
You're correct about the use of a semicolon (even though you do misuse it here), but semicolons have always been a bit fraught. The connection between the clauses indicated by a semicolon is...
You're correct about the use of a semicolon (even though you do misuse it here), but semicolons have always been a bit fraught. The connection between the clauses indicated by a semicolon is nearer than if you used a period, but farther than if you used a comma and a conjunction. It's also a bit vague compared to use of a conjunction, where the semantics of the conjunction used will clue you in to how the clauses are supposed to relate to each other. Even when it was more widely used, the semicolon was difficult to use well and easy to replace with other options, so I'm not surprised it's in its decline.
The em dash, on the other hand, is very easy to use without breaking any rules and doesn't have as hard-and-fast a usage, which makes it much easier to use (and overuse, at least in my case!) in one's work.
i find semicolons and em dashes both very abusable, at least in my own writing (because i tend towards long sentences—it always feels like i lose momentum with every sentence end—and a semicolon...
i find semicolons and em dashes both very abusable, at least in my own writing (because i tend towards long sentences—it always feels like i lose momentum with every sentence end—and a semicolon helps to stretch out a would-be runon), and try to avoid both when i care. imo the really slept on punctuation mark is the colon. i only really seem to see it in popular writing before a list
I definitely abuse the em dash in my own writing for much the same reasons, but correctly-used semicolons are nigh universally easily replaced by a period with no difference in meaning. Even just...
I definitely abuse the em dash in my own writing for much the same reasons, but correctly-used semicolons are nigh universally easily replaced by a period with no difference in meaning. Even just on the level of style, very rarely does a semicolon justify its own use over a period in most circumstances.
Not to be pedantic, but I think that last example doesn't follow its stated rule; The second clause isn't a full sentence. Also, I find myself using semicolons in texts a lot, just to emphasize...
Not to be pedantic, but I think that last example doesn't follow its stated rule; The second clause isn't a full sentence.
Also, I find myself using semicolons in texts a lot, just to emphasize the connection between two thoughts.
On my mind as well: full colons. But I probably use all of these wrong at times myself.
Yeah I wasn't confident I pulled it off. I've been told that I use semicolons when I should consider a comma or rewrite to have two separate sentences.
Yeah I wasn't confident I pulled it off. I've been told that I use semicolons when I should consider a comma or rewrite to have two separate sentences.
I don't think the advice you were given would help you understanding how a semicolon is supposed to be used. It's more advice on how you can not use it. I think it probably is fair to say that you...
I've been told that I use semicolons when I should consider a comma or rewrite to have two separate sentences.
I don't think the advice you were given would help you understanding how a semicolon is supposed to be used. It's more advice on how you can not use it. I think it probably is fair to say that you shouldn't use something you don't understand and expect it to be used correctly. With that said, the general rule I go by is that a semicolon could always be replaced by the word "and", "or", or "but". If you can't swap them out and have the sentence be grammatically sound, then you've probably used it incorrectly. The second most common thing I am seeing in this thread is people throwing a semicolon into what is already a run-on sentence. In those instances I can't parse the grammar well enough to even judge if its usage would otherwise be proper use of a semicolon. But it doesn't really matter because I understand the poster's intent. All of that stated, I am certainly not the grammar police; I have no interest in trying to critique anyone's writing.
I certainly had fun passing over the obvious place I should have actually used a semicolon: when I used a conjunction to start a sentence. That is something that is commonly done for emphasis of a point, despite being grammatically incorrect. Grammar rules are made to be broken.
While that may technically be correct, people don't really use it that way anymore exclusively. My writing is littered with em dashes - which are usually just hyphens when writing on mobile - to...
While that may technically be correct, people don't really use it that way anymore exclusively.
My writing is littered with em dashes - which are usually just hyphens when writing on mobile - to show interjections which are actually not meant to be emphasized. It reads correctly to me and, I assume, the vast majority of other folks.
I think the nature of em-dash interjections emphasizes the interjection just by nature of choosing to interject it to begin with. I have never seen a use of the em dash that de-emphasized the...
I think the nature of em-dash interjections emphasizes the interjection just by nature of choosing to interject it to begin with. I have never seen a use of the em dash that de-emphasized the content of the interjection compared to alternative ways to include that information (such as using a colon or parentheses or a separate sentence), including here on Tildes or elsewhere online. Even your example here would be less emphasized if you used parentheses instead of em dashes.
I love using semicolons in quotes; it's like I'm showing what they really meant. I've also been much more liberal with my semicolons ever since using one got me a date. That was a long time ago,...
I love using semicolons in quotes; it's like I'm showing what they really meant.
I've also been much more liberal with my semicolons ever since using one got me a date. That was a long time ago, now, but I still think about how maybe it will be impress the other person rather than making them think I'm a freak.
I wear my fedora and I have a beard and I don't give a rat's anus what anyone thinks about it — and I feel the same about the em dash. :) …but I have gotten so irritated with the level of...
I wear my fedora and I have a beard and I don't give a rat's anus what anyone thinks about it — and I feel the same about the em dash. :)
…but I have gotten so irritated with the level of discourse most places on the internet. I know I have plenty of blind spots, but damn so many people rattling their fingers across their keyboards are so damn dumb. It makes one wonder how anything gets properly done. (And indeed, many things don't)
This doesn't surprise me at all. They're too hard to correctly use and even in professional settings people don't really care about correct punctuation for as long as there is some punctuation...
This doesn't surprise me at all. They're too hard to correctly use and even in professional settings people don't really care about correct punctuation for as long as there is some punctuation that tells you where you should pause. It turns out it hardly matters for as long as the text would read correctly out loud. This gives semicolons a weird scholarly or pretentious vibe, almost like the author is trying too hard.
My personal experience is greatly influenced by Amazon's writing culture. At Amazon everything is writing a document. The "standard" for a meeting at Amazon is that you write a document, you print out enough copies for everyone, you grab a bunch of pens, you hand these out at the start of the meeting, and then you wait. You sit silently in the meeting room as everyone reads, only discussing after everyone is done. Even this culture, one that cares so immensely about writing, has it's guidelines rooted in being understandable over "technically correct". In fact, it encourages being technically incorrect where it increases understandability. Short words, short sentences, no complex grammar.
I also don't think I ever really learned proper sentence structure in school. In fact, I think I somehow missed the basics of grammar entirely. i recall that one day the teacher started talking about things like "adverbs" like they were things we were supposed to know already. I didn't speak up because I didn't want to feel dumb, but as a result I was never taught what an adverb is. I've always assumed I got mixed up in a curriculum shuffle where someone just moved when grammar was supposed to be taught right around me.
Thing is, language is meant to communicate. Do you communicate what you want, generally speaking? I've read enough of your writing to know you do. Anything beyond that is gravy. I get irritated by...
Thing is, language is meant to communicate. Do you communicate what you want, generally speaking? I've read enough of your writing to know you do. Anything beyond that is gravy.
I get irritated by incorrect usage of some things. One of the ones that drives me up a wall is "yea" for "yeah". But I know where that comes from: mobile keyboards correcting even shittier typing to the vallid but archaic word "yea". My main problem is back when I would try to explain this, multiple times someone looked up the definition of "yea" and said "It's the same thing" and I'm like N O it is N O T, but..... whatever. Seeing "yay/nay" also irritates me. but whatever.
Language works or it doesn't.
I think as long as one is acceptably professional when it's required - as you certainly are - fuck the rest. I make mistakes. (Often because of this shitty keyboard, but I'm too lazy to fix. lol)
Same irt. grammar. Suddenly those terms were everywhere. I had years of language classes in multiple languages and so many things are still a mystery to me. I rely on vibes lol, that's the only...
Same irt. grammar. Suddenly those terms were everywhere. I had years of language classes in multiple languages and so many things are still a mystery to me. I rely on vibes lol, that's the only way I can feel if something is correct grammar and I think I get it right 99% of the time. But I couldn't tell you what the preposterousition's referred injuction is. I just know somehow.
Big fan of this sentence (and the solid usage of a semi-colon, a comma, and the em-dash. Feels like the author/editor were just showing off). I got a 9/10 on the articles semi-colon quiz. The one...
Big fan of this sentence (and the solid usage of a semi-colon, a comma, and the em-dash. Feels like the author/editor were just showing off).
A study suggests UK authors are taking Vonnegut’s advice to heart; the semicolon seems to be in terminal decline, with its usage in English books plummeting by almost half in two decades – from one appearing in every 205 words in 2000 to one use in every 390 words today.
I got a 9/10 on the articles semi-colon quiz.
The one I missed
was number 6 :(
I do like the semi-colon, and find myself using it somewhat frequently; I like the greater pause it provides, but I likely don’t always use it correctly.
I haven't really used semicolons much in my own writing, but I can't help but be proud to have gotten my 10/10 after being the annoying English class kid in school 😊
I haven't really used semicolons much in my own writing, but I can't help but be proud to have gotten my 10/10 after being the annoying English class kid in school 😊
Ahaha, same, the quiz enticed me. Also 10/10. In my work, I have to flip between very formal, technical writing and somewhat conversational, easily readable writing. I semicolons a bunch in the...
Ahaha, same, the quiz enticed me. Also 10/10.
In my work, I have to flip between very formal, technical writing and somewhat conversational, easily readable writing. I semicolons a bunch in the former and almost never in the latter. The nerd in me now wants to sprinkle juuuust a few more semicolons into my lighter writing to try and help revive this maligned little punctuation!
People pick up weird archaic words and phrases all the time and meme them back into usage; I think we could pull it off. what if we use it with the lol sentence terminator particle like this; lol
People pick up weird archaic words and phrases all the time and meme them back into usage; I think we could pull it off.
what if we use it with the lol sentence terminator particle like this; lol
hm, I think there would need to be some difference in meaning, even a subtle one, from using the same sentence-final particle without a semicolon, for that one to catch on.
hm, I think there would need to be some difference in meaning, even a subtle one, from using the same sentence-final particle without a semicolon, for that one to catch on.
Hear me out: ; as a seriousness marker. this sentence is completely silly lol this sentence has a ha ha only serious vibe; lol I also propose the use of matched pairs of semicolons to allow...
I also propose the use of matched pairs of semicolons to allow returning to the previous thought; I think that would be a good idea ⁏it's like parentheses but without implying the second thing is an aside.
No no no. You go to hell. You go to hell and you die. Lol …but since we're all on our way to hell, I think I might try it out ⁏but I think it should go the other way 'round; and that might help me...
No no no.
You go to hell. You go to hell and you die.
Lol
…but since we're all on our way to hell, I think I might try it out ⁏but I think it should go the other way 'round; and that might help me accept it slightly better. hmm.
I'm not even sure what the most cursed part of it is. Is it the glyph or existing on the wrong side of the space relative to every other piece of punctuation? Burn it.
I'm not even sure what the most cursed part of it is. Is it the glyph or existing on the wrong side of the space relative to every other piece of punctuation? Burn it.
Honestly, I was looking for one flipped the other way to use it like Spanish question marks; I found this character in the process. ؛edit: it does exist; I'm going to invent so many weird...
Honestly, I was looking for one flipped the other way to use it like Spanish question marks; that doesn't seem to be a thing but I found this character in the process.
؛edit: it does exist; I'm going to invent so many weird punctuation conventions with this knowledge.
Apparently the Arabic semicolon is close to what you're looking for? It's apparently used quite differently from the English one but it looks like this which seems about right: ؛ There's also...
Apparently the Arabic semicolon is close to what you're looking for? It's apparently used quite differently from the English one but it looks like this which seems about right: ؛
There's also apparently a unicode character for a reversed semicolon ⸵ , which it says indicates "a sudden glottal closure" in the International Phonetic Alphabet, but it must be either an old symbol that's fallen out of use or from an unofficial extension to the IPA, bc it's not one of the symbols on the official IPA chart and I don't actually even know what it's supposed to represent. Seems ripe for repurposing for your cursed orthographic choices!
Also, fun facts from my Wikipedia dive, apparently in Greek the same character as the English semicolon is used as a question mark! TIL
Glad to be of help! I can't find any info about its use in the IPA which is annoying me as I studied linguistics, but on the plus side the beginning of your comment looks like a funny little emoticon.
Glad to be of help! I can't find any info about its use in the IPA which is annoying me as I studied linguistics, but on the plus side the beginning of your comment looks like a funny little emoticon.
I wasn't going to read an article about the decline of the semicolon, it sounded a bit boring to me, but I'd there's a quiz I have to do that! I did... worse than I expected. 6/10. I got every...
I wasn't going to read an article about the decline of the semicolon, it sounded a bit boring to me, but I'd there's a quiz I have to do that! I did... worse than I expected. 6/10.
I got every sentence with a structure like this one wrong.
Everyone had a great time, in fact, they asked to go back again the next day.
You can steal mine to post if you want: https://ieh.im/s/firefox_ovusY8eL5Q.png ;-) I found the quiz stressful because I pride myself on my grammar. But as much as I felt sure every time I...
I found the quiz stressful because I pride myself on my grammar. But as much as I felt sure every time I answered one; at the same time, I was also nervous because I wanted a good score. lol.
With modern typography, I find that the semicolon is often kerned too close to the word before it, making it harder to distinguish from a comma. I like using semicolons, but I sometimes have a...
With modern typography, I find that the semicolon is often kerned too close to the word before it, making it harder to distinguish from a comma. I like using semicolons, but I sometimes have a hard time reading them, just because of the lack of visual distinction. I wonder if I'm alone in that.
I think that enough teachers have over-complicated (or straight-up incorrectly taught) the mechanics of the semi-colon that future generations decided to leave it behind. I definitely had some...
I think that enough teachers have over-complicated (or straight-up incorrectly taught) the mechanics of the semi-colon that future generations decided to leave it behind. I definitely had some conflicting explanations from multiple teachers growing up, and it just instilled in me not to bother. It's not like anyone has failed a paper because they didn't use one.
I think this is it - I got corrected different ways so many times over the years that it's just been easier to drop it. The only place I use it routinely now is to separate lists that have...
I think this is it - I got corrected different ways so many times over the years that it's just been easier to drop it. The only place I use it routinely now is to separate lists that have individual sentences that are punctuated somehow, it's little more than a glorified comma at the end of a list item.
Thinking back to high school, the reason why nobody used semicolons is simple; they just don’t know how to use them. The majority of them have abysmal writing skills. I remember many times when...
Thinking back to high school, the reason why nobody used semicolons is simple; they just don’t know how to use them. The majority of them have abysmal writing skills. I remember many times when classes were supposed to be doing peer criticism and I was too distracted by the grammar atrocities to even understand what their ideas were supposed to be. But I wonder what age group the students mentioned in the article were. High school freshmen compose significantly worse on average than seniors, and even college freshmen papers are tolerable even if they are sometimes exceedingly mechanical.
English is one of those subjects that I think public schools do wrong by nature of how it is taught - that is, as lectures with a great number of students to a teacher. Language arts need much more individual attention because it’s so much more complicated than any other subject.
A couple of things come to mind: Do I want to join together two closely related sentences? Do I have a lengthy or complicated list (perhaps there are commas in there which don't separate the...
A couple of things come to mind:
Do I want to join together two closely related sentences?
Do I have a lengthy or complicated list (perhaps there are commas in there which don't separate the items?)
Is a sentence I've written so overwrought and full of commas that a break would ease the reader? (Perhaps I should rewrite the sentence in question, but a semicolon in the middle might work too.)
@sparksbet okay, I understand how to use it in lists, but how do I figure out if a sentence or clause is independent? for example, in the quiz, I failed 5th, 6th, and 7th questions. for the 5th,...
@sparksbet okay, I understand how to use it in lists, but how do I figure out if a sentence or clause is independent? for example, in the quiz, I failed 5th, 6th, and 7th questions. for the 5th, the answer is
Click to view the hidden text
Rural residents often must travel farther for services, it’s part of country living.
but this doesn't seem "independent" to me, as without the first, the second wouldn't make sense, this is just very confusing for me.
In this context, "independent" means that if you ended it with a period, it would be a complete sentence grammatically. Obviously lots of sentences in any given texts don't make much sense...
In this context, "independent" means that if you ended it with a period, it would be a complete sentence grammatically. Obviously lots of sentences in any given texts don't make much sense content-wise out of context, but they're still grammatically complete sentences. With the example you quoted:
Rural residents often must travel farther for services, it’s part of country living.
Both "Rural residents often must travel farther for services" and "it's part of country living" can serve as complete sentences on their own. You could separate them with a period like so and it wouldn't be a problem at all:
Rural residents often must travel farther for services. It's part of country living.
Because they can be written separated with a period like that, you can use a semicolon in the same place (and because you can use a semicolon, using a comma in the same place is incorrect). This is a big part of why semicolons have always been relatively rare; they can always be replaced by a period (except for the use in lists).
The most important rule to not misuse one is that, when used to connect sentences, the two sentences must be able to stand alone on their own. Semicolons connect two independent clauses. If you...
The most important rule to not misuse one is that, when used to connect sentences, the two sentences must be able to stand alone on their own. Semicolons connect two independent clauses. If you can't replace the semicolon with a period, you're using it wrong.
The other use is just to replace a comma when listing items that themselves contain commas. These two rules are enough to get all the answers right on their semicolon quiz.
As for when you should use one... you can probably go your whole life without using one and not be worse off for it. The quote that begins the piece is apt here.
I find this to be truer as time goes on; when I'm writing I still pull out a semicolon from time to time, but find it looks unnatural in some cases—particularly in quoted dialogue, where I'd rather see an em-dash or a period. I've grown a fondness for the em-dash, coming from exposure to books, articles, and visual novels that tend to use them everywhere.
Risking opening up a can of worms talking about LLMs now: LLMs seem to have a strong preference for the em-dash as well, so the downside of using em-dash is people might think you're using an LLM to write—which I don't, not for English. I generally don't care if people use LLMs to write better, but I also don't want to be unfairly judged by the people who do look down on others using those tools. (That said, I do dislike when people use LLMs to pad out their writing unnecessarily long, or to create slop to sell an idea, or win an Internet argument by trying to appear smarter.)
But an em-dash fills a different role—to emphasize—rather than deemphasize (as in the case with parentheses). While the role of a semicolon is to indicate a connection between two clauses; to separate two thoughts which could be sentences independently.
You're correct about the use of a semicolon (even though you do misuse it here), but semicolons have always been a bit fraught. The connection between the clauses indicated by a semicolon is nearer than if you used a period, but farther than if you used a comma and a conjunction. It's also a bit vague compared to use of a conjunction, where the semantics of the conjunction used will clue you in to how the clauses are supposed to relate to each other. Even when it was more widely used, the semicolon was difficult to use well and easy to replace with other options, so I'm not surprised it's in its decline.
The em dash, on the other hand, is very easy to use without breaking any rules and doesn't have as hard-and-fast a usage, which makes it much easier to use (and overuse, at least in my case!) in one's work.
i find semicolons and em dashes both very abusable, at least in my own writing (because i tend towards long sentences—it always feels like i lose momentum with every sentence end—and a semicolon helps to stretch out a would-be runon), and try to avoid both when i care. imo the really slept on punctuation mark is the colon. i only really seem to see it in popular writing before a list
I definitely abuse the em dash in my own writing for much the same reasons, but correctly-used semicolons are nigh universally easily replaced by a period with no difference in meaning. Even just on the level of style, very rarely does a semicolon justify its own use over a period in most circumstances.
Not to be pedantic, but I think that last example doesn't follow its stated rule; The second clause isn't a full sentence.
Also, I find myself using semicolons in texts a lot, just to emphasize the connection between two thoughts.
On my mind as well: full colons. But I probably use all of these wrong at times myself.
Yeah I wasn't confident I pulled it off. I've been told that I use semicolons when I should consider a comma or rewrite to have two separate sentences.
I don't think the advice you were given would help you understanding how a semicolon is supposed to be used. It's more advice on how you can not use it. I think it probably is fair to say that you shouldn't use something you don't understand and expect it to be used correctly. With that said, the general rule I go by is that a semicolon could always be replaced by the word "and", "or", or "but". If you can't swap them out and have the sentence be grammatically sound, then you've probably used it incorrectly. The second most common thing I am seeing in this thread is people throwing a semicolon into what is already a run-on sentence. In those instances I can't parse the grammar well enough to even judge if its usage would otherwise be proper use of a semicolon. But it doesn't really matter because I understand the poster's intent. All of that stated, I am certainly not the grammar police; I have no interest in trying to critique anyone's writing.
I certainly had fun passing over the obvious place I should have actually used a semicolon: when I used a conjunction to start a sentence. That is something that is commonly done for emphasis of a point, despite being grammatically incorrect. Grammar rules are made to be broken.
While that may technically be correct, people don't really use it that way anymore exclusively.
My writing is littered with em dashes - which are usually just hyphens when writing on mobile - to show interjections which are actually not meant to be emphasized. It reads correctly to me and, I assume, the vast majority of other folks.
I think the nature of em-dash interjections emphasizes the interjection just by nature of choosing to interject it to begin with. I have never seen a use of the em dash that de-emphasized the content of the interjection compared to alternative ways to include that information (such as using a colon or parentheses or a separate sentence), including here on Tildes or elsewhere online. Even your example here would be less emphasized if you used parentheses instead of em dashes.
I love using semicolons in quotes; it's like I'm showing what they really meant.
I've also been much more liberal with my semicolons ever since using one got me a date. That was a long time ago, now, but I still think about how maybe it will be impress the other person rather than making them think I'm a freak.
Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to date you OR your super sexy semicolons!
Maybe we could go out just as friends?
Just kidding!
...unless...?
Not much, what's updawg with you?
:)
I wear my fedora and I have a beard and I don't give a rat's anus what anyone thinks about it — and I feel the same about the em dash. :)
…but I have gotten so irritated with the level of discourse most places on the internet. I know I have plenty of blind spots, but damn so many people rattling their fingers across their keyboards are so damn dumb. It makes one wonder how anything gets properly done. (And indeed, many things don't)
This doesn't surprise me at all. They're too hard to correctly use and even in professional settings people don't really care about correct punctuation for as long as there is some punctuation that tells you where you should pause. It turns out it hardly matters for as long as the text would read correctly out loud. This gives semicolons a weird scholarly or pretentious vibe, almost like the author is trying too hard.
My personal experience is greatly influenced by Amazon's writing culture. At Amazon everything is writing a document. The "standard" for a meeting at Amazon is that you write a document, you print out enough copies for everyone, you grab a bunch of pens, you hand these out at the start of the meeting, and then you wait. You sit silently in the meeting room as everyone reads, only discussing after everyone is done. Even this culture, one that cares so immensely about writing, has it's guidelines rooted in being understandable over "technically correct". In fact, it encourages being technically incorrect where it increases understandability. Short words, short sentences, no complex grammar.
I also don't think I ever really learned proper sentence structure in school. In fact, I think I somehow missed the basics of grammar entirely. i recall that one day the teacher started talking about things like "adverbs" like they were things we were supposed to know already. I didn't speak up because I didn't want to feel dumb, but as a result I was never taught what an adverb is. I've always assumed I got mixed up in a curriculum shuffle where someone just moved when grammar was supposed to be taught right around me.
Thing is, language is meant to communicate. Do you communicate what you want, generally speaking? I've read enough of your writing to know you do. Anything beyond that is gravy.
I get irritated by incorrect usage of some things. One of the ones that drives me up a wall is "yea" for "yeah". But I know where that comes from: mobile keyboards correcting even shittier typing to the vallid but archaic word "yea". My main problem is back when I would try to explain this, multiple times someone looked up the definition of "yea" and said "It's the same thing" and I'm like N O it is N O T, but..... whatever. Seeing "yay/nay" also irritates me. but whatever.
Language works or it doesn't.
I think as long as one is acceptably professional when it's required - as you certainly are - fuck the rest. I make mistakes. (Often because of this shitty keyboard, but I'm too lazy to fix. lol)
Same irt. grammar. Suddenly those terms were everywhere. I had years of language classes in multiple languages and so many things are still a mystery to me. I rely on vibes lol, that's the only way I can feel if something is correct grammar and I think I get it right 99% of the time. But I couldn't tell you what the preposterousition's referred injuction is. I just know somehow.
Big fan of this sentence (and the solid usage of a semi-colon, a comma, and the em-dash. Feels like the author/editor were just showing off).
I got a 9/10 on the articles semi-colon quiz.
The one I missed
was number 6 :(I do like the semi-colon, and find myself using it somewhat frequently; I like the greater pause it provides, but I likely don’t always use it correctly.
I haven't really used semicolons much in my own writing, but I can't help but be proud to have gotten my 10/10 after being the annoying English class kid in school 😊
Ahaha, same, the quiz enticed me. Also 10/10.
In my work, I have to flip between very formal, technical writing and somewhat conversational, easily readable writing. I semicolons a bunch in the former and almost never in the latter. The nerd in me now wants to sprinkle juuuust a few more semicolons into my lighter writing to try and help revive this maligned little punctuation!
I think the semicolon has for far too long served as a way to show off one's education to make a comeback in more casual text lol!
People pick up weird archaic words and phrases all the time and meme them back into usage; I think we could pull it off.
what if we use it with the lol sentence terminator particle like this; lol
hm, I think there would need to be some difference in meaning, even a subtle one, from using the same sentence-final particle without a semicolon, for that one to catch on.
Hear me out:
;as a seriousness marker.this sentence is completely silly lol
this sentence has a ha ha only serious vibe; lol
I also propose the use of matched pairs of semicolons to allow returning to the previous thought; I think that would be a good idea ⁏it's like parentheses but without implying the second thing is an aside.
No no no.
You go to hell. You go to hell and you die.
Lol
…but since we're all on our way to hell, I think I might try it out ⁏but I think it should go the other way 'round; and that might help me accept it slightly better. hmm.
oh god how did you produce that mirrored semicolon that's cursed af
I'm not even sure what the most cursed part of it is. Is it the glyph or existing on the wrong side of the space relative to every other piece of punctuation? Burn it.
It's impressively cursed on multiple levels tbqh
Honestly, I was looking for one flipped the other way to use it like Spanish question marks;
that doesn't seem to be a thing butI found this character in the process.؛edit: it does exist; I'm going to invent so many weird punctuation conventions with this knowledge.
I have no idea what it's actually used for.
Apparently the Arabic semicolon is close to what you're looking for? It's apparently used quite differently from the English one but it looks like this which seems about right: ؛
There's also apparently a unicode character for a reversed semicolon ⸵ , which it says indicates "a sudden glottal closure" in the International Phonetic Alphabet, but it must be either an old symbol that's fallen out of use or from an unofficial extension to the IPA, bc it's not one of the symbols on the official IPA chart and I don't actually even know what it's supposed to represent. Seems ripe for repurposing for your cursed orthographic choices!
Also, fun facts from my Wikipedia dive, apparently in Greek the same character as the English semicolon is used as a question mark! TIL
⸵I also found the Arabic one at about the same time you did (see edit); however, I think this one visually fits better, at least in this font. Thanks!
Glad to be of help! I can't find any info about its use in the IPA which is annoying me as I studied linguistics, but on the plus side the beginning of your comment looks like a funny little emoticon.
How can two characters be so cursed? lol
U+204F ⁏ REVERSED SEMICOLON – used in old writing systems, such as Hungarian Runic[31] and Sindhi language
Because wiki knows all
Ahhhhh, I know, I know, let a girl dream! Realistically my colleagues would edit it out, just as I would for their writing. :)
I wasn't going to read an article about the decline of the semicolon, it sounded a bit boring to me, but I'd there's a quiz I have to do that! I did... worse than I expected. 6/10.
I got every sentence with a structure like this one wrong.
Everyone had a great time, in fact, they asked to go back again the next day.I see it now but damn.
You can steal mine to post if you want: https://ieh.im/s/firefox_ovusY8eL5Q.png ;-)
I found the quiz stressful because I pride myself on my grammar. But as much as I felt sure every time I answered one; at the same time, I was also nervous because I wanted a good score. lol.
With modern typography, I find that the semicolon is often kerned too close to the word before it, making it harder to distinguish from a comma. I like using semicolons, but I sometimes have a hard time reading them, just because of the lack of visual distinction. I wonder if I'm alone in that.
It;s just you; the rest of us us;e them just fi;ne. It;s only people; who are obsessed abo;ut them that se;e them everywhere;
I think that enough teachers have over-complicated (or straight-up incorrectly taught) the mechanics of the semi-colon that future generations decided to leave it behind. I definitely had some conflicting explanations from multiple teachers growing up, and it just instilled in me not to bother. It's not like anyone has failed a paper because they didn't use one.
I think this is it - I got corrected different ways so many times over the years that it's just been easier to drop it. The only place I use it routinely now is to separate lists that have individual sentences that are punctuated somehow, it's little more than a glorified comma at the end of a list item.
Thinking back to high school, the reason why nobody used semicolons is simple; they just don’t know how to use them. The majority of them have abysmal writing skills. I remember many times when classes were supposed to be doing peer criticism and I was too distracted by the grammar atrocities to even understand what their ideas were supposed to be. But I wonder what age group the students mentioned in the article were. High school freshmen compose significantly worse on average than seniors, and even college freshmen papers are tolerable even if they are sometimes exceedingly mechanical.
English is one of those subjects that I think public schools do wrong by nature of how it is taught - that is, as lectures with a great number of students to a teacher. Language arts need much more individual attention because it’s so much more complicated than any other subject.
as someone whose native language is not english, I've never been able to understand when to use a semicolon
A couple of things come to mind:
Do I want to join together two closely related sentences?
Do I have a lengthy or complicated list (perhaps there are commas in there which don't separate the items?)
Is a sentence I've written so overwrought and full of commas that a break would ease the reader? (Perhaps I should rewrite the sentence in question, but a semicolon in the middle might work too.)
@sparksbet okay, I understand how to use it in lists, but how do I figure out if a sentence or clause is independent? for example, in the quiz, I failed 5th, 6th, and 7th questions. for the 5th, the answer is
Click to view the hidden text
Rural residents often must travel farther for services, it’s part of country living.In this context, "independent" means that if you ended it with a period, it would be a complete sentence grammatically. Obviously lots of sentences in any given texts don't make much sense content-wise out of context, but they're still grammatically complete sentences. With the example you quoted:
Both "Rural residents often must travel farther for services" and "it's part of country living" can serve as complete sentences on their own. You could separate them with a period like so and it wouldn't be a problem at all:
Because they can be written separated with a period like that, you can use a semicolon in the same place (and because you can use a semicolon, using a comma in the same place is incorrect). This is a big part of why semicolons have always been relatively rare; they can always be replaced by a period (except for the use in lists).
The most important rule to not misuse one is that, when used to connect sentences, the two sentences must be able to stand alone on their own. Semicolons connect two independent clauses. If you can't replace the semicolon with a period, you're using it wrong.
The other use is just to replace a comma when listing items that themselves contain commas. These two rules are enough to get all the answers right on their semicolon quiz.
As for when you should use one... you can probably go your whole life without using one and not be worse off for it. The quote that begins the piece is apt here.
Look at some of you putting a semicolon in your comments; we do our part to keep it alive, even if it's just on a lesser-known internet forum.
(((;ꏿ_ꏿ;)))
I do my part
I'm doing my part!
(；′⌒`)