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What does your spirituality mean to you?
In lieu of a ~spirituality group I figured a dedicated thread could be nice. Posting in this group was suggested by a fellow tildo.
So friends, what does your spirituality mean to you? How would you define yourself? What impact has it had on your life?
For me, I'm a Christopagan and my faith means a lot to me. The Christian Trinity, Santa Muerte, and Krishna are my rock. The Buddha is a good source of inspiration too, but I don't particularly follow him. I also find a lot of meaning in the Tao de Ching, but I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a Taoist, although I agree with a lot of what it says .
I grew up Christian and now have a somewhat fraught relationship with Christianity and and organized religion. I consider myself an atheist besides - not just because of my direct negative experiences with the church, to be clear - and overall don't think there is an ascribed order or higher power to the universe. But this is an intellectual position.
My more emotional position is to keep an openness to mystery. I actually engage in some little personal rituals for personal satisfaction. I suppose I'm seeking out experiences that light up that part of the brain that used to light up for me during powerful sermons and group prayer when I was more fully immersed in Christianity - a sort of religious euphoria - IYKYK. I don't currently follow anything in particular so much as I go by my intuition, which might classify me as eclectic, but I'm not sure I'd go that far.
So, symbols move me, rituals move me, I try to romanticize my life and the world a bit. It's fun. I have cheap but pretty stones by my desk which are supposed to invoke different moods and energies. I like to sit in nature and try to feel some kind of communion or connectedness. I'll say a prayer to no entity in particular for something I want, or maybe hope that the God of Finding My Goddamn Car Keys will smile on me in my time of need. The idea of being guarded, watched, and loved by something unfathomable gives me a strange comfort, and while sometimes the feeling is "I'm playing pretend, but wouldn't it be nice?" I think there's always a tiny kernel of "well, maybe...". I think my life would be sadder if I were rid of it, so I'm not inclined to examine that kernel all that closely.
I resonate with this so much, but I wanted to add that I’ve been on a continual search for that religious euphoria. Yet, I never went to church. Instead, the first moment that lit my brain in a similar way was standing packed like a sardine, belting my heart out to Say Anything circa 2010.
Since then I’ve found that “pattern” in other concerts, protests, and rallies. I’ve come to view it now as The Euphoria of the Collective but it’s still an elusive feeling.
My first thought was strongly "oh man I cant believe people on here are openly discussing their spiritual views without a single sarcastic comment" Thats part of the reason I want to leave reddit. If this was a reddit question, there would be numerous "believing in that fairy tale sh*t is just stupid". Yikes.
As for me I grew up HEAVILY involved in our Protestant church. Like going to church Sunday morning, then again on Sunday night, then for Prayer Meeting on Wednesdays sometimes, and definitely for Choir on Thursdays and then Youth Group on Friday night. I also spent three years in a Bible college after high school and was encouraged to become a pastor (I didnt but I have two cousins who are and three who were full or part time missionaries).
Then I got my B.Ed. and taught in a Christian school for 11 years where we had staff devotions daily and chapel once a week. Then started a Christian charity that involved outreach to street youth for 5 years. All of that involved speaking and doing presentations in at least 100 different churches over time, mostly Protestant. I dont think one could be much more inundated in the Christian faith than I was for probably my first 45 years.
Now? I still financially support some people who work at the charity I started. Its been running for over 30 years now and I know its done a lot of good and even saved kids from suicide. But I dont go to church anymore. I feel like Ive heard every sermon there is to hear and hearing another one isnt going to make me think or believe any differently in my 60's. I really find most preachers quite annoying now. I respect where they're coming from, I wont denigrate them for believing it, but Im not a fervent evangelist anymore. I do miss the singing. It was uplifting and I found it really enjoyable.
Im pretty respectful of other beliefs compared to back then. Ive met a lot of spiritual people - from protestants, to pentecostals, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses to the more esoteric wiccans, pagans, New Age 'hippies' to Buddhists, Muslims. Ive attended a Jewish synagogue, a Sikh temple and a Mormon temple and studied world religions and even cults.
I have a very hard time believing that there is only one God as Christianity teaches. I most definitely think all humans have a spiritual side and I also believe that the fact that much of our society rejects that is causing the lack of hope and purpose in many people's lives. We've substituted therapy or drugs or distractions or hedonic pleasure in the hope they will fulfill us but I dont think they do. As someone once said, "there is a god sized hole in our hearts" or more accurately, there's a spiritual side that we can't completely ignore to live a full life.
I also definitely believe in a Creator whoever that may be. When I look at the size of the universe and its complexity, and then at our human bodies and how intricately they are made and how all our systems work together, the idea of all this coming together from a cosmic soup that evolved into a planet that supports humans with a conscience, intelligence and a spiritual side seems entirely impossible to me.
I DO miss the close relationships I formed in church and in the school. We were a family and it was very comforting to belong to a group who cared about each other so much. Im still friends with a few people I met at youth group 45 years ago.
A lot of young people in particular (or maybe just reddit) like to crap on the church but I saw many ways that the church was very helpful to us and to others in the community. It bothers me that so much focus is placed on priests abusing kids just to denigrate ALL churches and ALL spiritual leaders, the majority of whom are good, kind, caring people. Or when a pastor is found to be an abuser and then some people believe that most pastors are like that. No, they aren't. There are literally thousands of pastors/spiritual leaders who care deeply about their community - Ive met a lot of them so the typecast is troubling and just plain wrong. But that's the divisiveness that seems to be the heart of the internet and "news" these days.
Anyway, I havent totally given up every aspect of what I believed but Im very much more of the 'live and let live' philosophy now and I almost always keep my beliefs to myself. Ive had a few spiritual events happen to me that make it hard to give up totally the beliefs I grew up with, but its not up to me to force my beliefs on any else. I think trying to love people is all I need to worry about and even that is hard enough to do because I know I can be judgmental at times.
Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
I'm interested if you want to share :)
I also grew up Protestant and I remember going to church falling asleep until the sermon, or else rolling my eyes at certain songs....I can sort of sympathise with feeling like you've heard it all before.
Hmm... I suppose I might be able to share them safely here. But they're pretty personal, and any time I write anything online I remind myself that the internet is forever and nothing really ever gets erased permanently... and that makes me quite loath to 'put it all out there'. I just dont trust that some time in the future all that information can be used for nefarious purposes. Or maybe Im just paranoid lol. The most Id say is that they were supernatural experiences that I just cant explain any other way. Sorry for the tease.
But I most definitely can relate to falling asleep during sermons. The tricky part was how to hide my head so it didnt look like I was sleeping and how to make sure I woke up at the appropriate time to stand for the final hymn because remaining seated would be a dead giveaway that I was dozing. My go to position was to lean forward and put my head in my hands and hope the pastor thought I was deep in thought :) All the more reason to sit near the back of the church.
And there were indeed some songs that I just couldn't sing. I definitely remember some choruses that we sang where my internal voice was saying, "Nope I dont believe that. I dont think ANYONE here believes that" so I would just stay silent while my brain wondered about why we sang such things when it wasnt true.
As a godless materialist who's on the cosmic soup side of things, I think there is room for those two things to be closer than they might appear.
Where did The Creator come from?
Why does a cosmic soup, in the right cauldron, produce life?
It's just the nature of things.
I think this is what makes the Creator so amazing and incomprehensible. I dont think the Creator fits into our understanding of time or space or structure. The Creator just is, always has been, will always be.
Or maybe thats you meant by it's just the nature of things?
Pretty much. I didn't mean for it come across as so iam14andthisisdeep but there are, no matter your belief system, unknowable parts of our universe to gaze in wonder at. A believer may ascribe a certain shape to the unknowable where someone else may just throw up their hands, but I don't think their altogether necessarily different.
I think the exact same thing about our universe, if that helps it make sense.
I was raised Hindu. I'd say for most of my life I followed the generically monist, sort of deistic version of Advaita Vedanta that is fashionable among educated Hindus.
More recently I've had some spiritual experiences that have opened me up to a more henotheistic view that takes the existence of individual spiritual entities (i.e. deities) more seriously. I'm still very much a polytheist and think the unqualified monotheism (and specifically the iconoclasm implicit within it) has been a net negative for humanity and a general impediment to people's genuine spiritual development.
I'm actually a bit saddened by the growth of a sort of "political Hinduism" that views encroachment by monotheistic religions and responds by adopting the same kind of hardline, doctrinaire approaches to spirituality. It's been noxious for the spiritual and political health of Hindu communities and, I think, will eventually snuff out the core of the tradition and replace it with something that is basically Lutheranism in a Hindu skin-suit.
Could you enlighten me on what this means? I think iconoclasm means something different in my tradition
Literally the destruction of idols and other sacred items. But also figuratively seeking to upend or wipe out pre-existing traditions. It's a bit of a sore point for non-Abrahamic religions (European pagans, African traditional religion, Dharmic traditions, Chinese traditional religion, etc.) that encroaching Christian and Muslim invaders made a habit of seeking to wipe out the pre-contact spiritual traditions wherever they encountered them. (Technically Christians wanted to convert and wipe them out, Muslim empires sought to subjugate and show their dominance. In either case, it's problematic to say the least but we tend to sort of shrug it off and claim that's just part of the religious practice. But its not, these specific religions specifically evolved these practices due to socio-political factors.)
I encountered this piece of writing today, and this excerpt reminded me of what you said:
I guess I'm not really sure about what he's trying to say here because of the archaic language but this quote seems to lean a bit on a "noble savage" view of indigenous religions that I view as condescending and infantilizing.
I can speak for Hinduism since it's what I'm most familiar with, but everything I say about it I know for a fact is also true of pre-Christian pagan traditions of the Romans, Greeks, Phonecians, Egyptians, etc. and suspect is also true of American indigenous spiritual practices. Hinduism has traditions (many, in fact) of philosophy and metaphysics that are every bit as thought out as what Christians make theirs out to be. These weren't naked people living the life of edenic simpletons, these were sophisticated thinkers and philosophers. Most of the Enlightenment and Renaissance ideas were launched by rediscovery of their works.
This view that there is a "natural religion" out there became popular during the 18th and 19th centuries, but it's deeply problematic because it turns out Christians tend to assume that natural religion just so happens to be some variation on a vaguely deistic form of Protestant Christianity. They don't actually accept the claims of other traditions on their own terms, and in the places where the beliefs and practices deviated from those held as noble or true by the Christian colonizers the standard response was to claim these were "corruptions" of the "true natural religion" imposed on them by perfidious priests or demonic forces. It's basically a version of RETVRN style golden-age thinking.
My apologies. It was 1674. It is indeed very old and very much ethno-centric and insensitive for our day.
It's not really out of step for our day though. I'd argue this is basically how most Christian missionaries view the world. It's also why many tend to view missionary activity as a colonialist project.
And it should not be how Christians should engage with the world, I agree. There are even evangelical missionaries going to Orthodox places trying to tell us we're idolators and polytheistic barbarians, without even respecting that those places have been Christian for centuries longer than America has been.
It shouldn't be that way, and again I apologize for adding insult to grave injury for the insensitivity on my part.
It shouldn't be, but I would argue that this is the logical and natural outcome of doctrinal monotheism. There's a lot of evidence (Biblical even), that the early Isrealites were Henotheists (as in, Elohim was their God and not the ONLY God). And this creates space for being able to peacefully coexist with neighbors of differing traditions and backgrounds without feeling the need to convert them. One could be a chauvanist about it, but that's a choice rather than a divine mandate. But once the doctrine sets in that there is only one God, and one specific group has unique knowledge/access to that truth, I don't see how this spells anything but trouble for anyone who has to live next door to them. The most benign outcome is condescension, but there can never be real respect.
Thankfully, this isn't the lived practice of most lay-Christians (or Muslims). Historically people have been willing to blend and coexist with their neighbors just fine and modern Christianity retains many holdovers from the various ancient pagan traditions it supplanted as a result. But I don't think it's a coincidence that we're seeing growing religious polarization and extremism growing alongside increasing literacy and outreach by organized religious bodies. They promulgate a doctrine with a kernel of intolerance at the core, even if it's wrapped up in a love and compassion box. When people internalize that there is only ONE truth and THEY have it, there's no escaping the conflict that will arise.
Thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts on this.
Certainly, the first statement in the Creed leaves nothing in the universe, across all space time, outside of the jurisdiction of the only God: "the Almighty, creator of all things visible and insivible". It is, at it's very core, completely incompatible with any other way of believing who the entire universe belongs to.
Does this necessitate intolerance, violence and conflict though? This is something that hardline right wingers seem to believe "yes" in. That if there is One God, then everything incompatible must be obliterated. They believe that non believers inherently corrupt the land and by purging them they will then have some kind of glorious holy paradise on earth.
Thank you for being charitable to lay-monotheists. That is probably kinder than we deserve after this many centuries of wrong doing and sinful living, commited both in knowledge and in ignorance. I, myself, believe that our God did not examplify this kind of "confess or die" theology: that while we were foreigners and non-believers, He gave Himself up to be tortured to death for a mere, non-pressured, chance for us to say yes. That even the Egyptians who enslaved his chosen people were allowed to prosper for four hundred years, ditto Babylonians and Assyrians and Romans: they were allowed to prosper and rule and choose.
Don't non-believers die in the afterlife? We don't know. We are explicitly told the hypocritical confessors who shout "Lord Lord we did this and that in your name", the money changers who scammed believers, those will be cast out, but in contrast all nations will enter into the kingdom. The text doesn't say all true die-hard believers.
Orthodox people believe that we have the full revelation, but that ours is not the only and exclusive revelation.
But thank you for the responses: I probably do still hold a condescending and ignorant attitude with regards to other fellow human beings who profess a different creed. It is presumptuous and uncharitable, and not even Christian: who I am to judge, when I am the chief among sinners.
Thank you for your patience and kindness. I benefited from the reminder today.
Maybe using the word "necessitates" was ambiguous. For any individual person I don't think it requires them to be intolerant. I think most people's natural compassion, curiosity, and desire for human connection cuts against it. But stochastically, given the distribution of various personality traits in society, I think it makes it inevitable that naturally intolerant people (who exist in all groups) will have a framework to exert more influence than they would otherwise and have a justification for indulging in their worst impulses.
I also think that because of the scriptural justification and the insistence on scripture as the sole reference point for access to divinity, it disinclines more open-minded people from stopping them. Instead of being sad that a traditional religion and folkway has been eradicated, the emphasis shifts to rejoicing that those people are "uplifted" from their previously benighted existence.
This is partly bias as a Hindu I guess. But in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna basically says that regardless of how your worship or who you think you're worshipping all devotions and sacrifices come to him and he meets all sincere devotees where they're at. I think this is the core of why Hinduism has been so adaptable and able to absorb other religious traditions it has encountered over time rather than erasing them. Because it acknowledges that there are many paths to self-realization and different paths will work better for different people based on their personal attributes (gunas) and the traditions and customs they follow. It wasn't all sunshine and roses. There was religious conflict, but forces of exclusion and chauvanism lost as often as they won.
Yeah Syrian Christians in India were originally an Eastern Rite with a similar outlook. I think the fact that Eastern Orthodox Christianity had to coexist alongside Islam, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, etc. (depending on the place) made it evolve in more ecumenical ways. The "pagans" in that case were fully developed religious philosophies with political power behind them rather than just country bumpkins who hadn't been "properly educated." But nowadays charismatic churches out of America are aggressively evangelizing and converting Christians out of their more traditional practices. This comes at a time in India where a particularly chauvanistic form of Hinduism has grown more politically influential and it really provides fuel for the revanchists when missionaries come around and start desecrating traditional festivals. Funnily enough, when I argue with these right-wing Hindus I often find myself using the arguments that Thomas More made against Martin Luther. They don't know what to make of me telling them to stop acting like Lutherans.
Also, i agree that perhaps the Orthodox Church did alright because we were often kind of the cultural minority and didnt have the power to become all gross and evil. (Case in point.....Russia....) When forced to get alone we are more civil. Christianity does best as a persecuted minority, I think.
What were some of the arguments Thomas More made against Luther? :)
Does the smiley face indicate that you already know? Because the open letters he wrote were spicy. At one point he characterizes Martin Luther as a "mad friarlet and privy-minded rascal." I believe the phrase "shitting and beshitted" gets used at some point too. He then goes on to apologize to his readers for talking like this, but it's the only language this man seems to understand.
But the gist of the argument is that Luther's doctrine asserts not only that the Church is corrupt, but that people need neither the Church nor any Church tradition to access God and that the specific text of the scripture alone is what's needed. What's more, laity can freely interpret that scripture for themselves, even in translation, with no special training or education to inform them as to the context or appropriate interpretations or translation details. Rather, some form of divine provenance will naturally guide them to the correct interpretation and the catechism and doctrines promoted by the Church are simply the clergy trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.
You can see the parallels here to what I mentioned earlier about Christian views of "natural religion" and how it just so happens to "naturally" mimic Protestant Christianity and any deviations are corrupt priests of other religions confusing the benighted savages they have under their thrall.
More contends that this approach to religion will be chaos, that every man being a priest will open to door to all "manner of calumny and falsehood" under the guide of Biblical teaching. That this will preferentially select for teaching that will flatter people's egos and suck up to worldly powers at the expense of genuine spiritual development.
I think the idea that random individuals can do a better job of understanding a canonized body of scripture than the accumulated body of authoritative knowledge that is tradition is belied by the fact that Protestant sects seem to crop up like mushrooms after a rain any time a mildly controversial doctrinal disagreement happens.
No I had never read that before, and after reading your excepts and commentary, downloaded a copy of Response to Luther immediately. My upbringing was anti-Catholic and generally pro Lutheran/Calvin which means it wouldn't have recommended this title, and in my resent conversion I've barely made any progress in the before-schism Church Fathers at all. Very very large knowledge gap.
Thank you very much, so glad I asked
Oh boy I agree with a ton of things you said this in comment
In particular, "But in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna basically says that regardless of how your worship or who you think you're worshipping all devotions and sacrifices come to him and he meets all sincere devotees where they're at."
This is similar to one of my absolute favorite scenes in the Narnia fairy tales:
I'm guessing C.S. Lewis was actually riffing directly off the Bhagavad Gita there (though the "he and I are not one" part is the opposite of the Gita's teaching that all is one) when Krishna grants Arjuna the ability to see his true nature as an infinite being that encompasses all the universe and time itself. It enjoyed a lot of popularity among the transcendentalists of a generation before and the theosophists of his time.
This is also the part Oppenheimer quoted when he said "I am become Death, destroyer of worlds." (Though, more accurately, it would translate as "I am time, all-devouring.")
Maybe things have changed, but generally speaking you won't find many believers on Tildes.
I am what you might call a "Positivist Spiritualist Christian", which means that my beliefs are largely alien to the vast majority of English speakers that are the majority of this website.
In my experience, trying to explain or categorize my faith to that audience is difficult, riddled with errors and impossible translations. There are simply no points of comparison between cultures.
I don't feel comfortable talking about this in many places because people will fit my beliefs into their own personal trauma and I'm not equiped to deal with those emotions in a productive way. Traumatic experiences with religion seem particularly prevalent in the United States, but maybe it's the case that Americans are just more vocal about it.
However, Q&A seem to work. I have no interest in proselytizing or converting anyone, I was previously an atheist and some of my best friends are either atheists or materialists. So you won't offend me with your questions. But be nice ;)
I won't publicly name my faith or my place of origin, as, due to privacy concerns, I generally avoid divulging identifying information about myself when I can help it.
I think you're kinda confusing religious with spirituality a bit. The majority of people on Tildes (at least in the past) might not have followed an organized religion, believed in a higher power, or the paranormal... but that doesn't mean they aren't spiritual, believe in spiritual concepts, or partake in spiritual practices. E.g. I consider myself a Zen Buddhist and have been practicing daily Zazen meditation for several decades. I have also spent quite a lot of time on retreats at various monasteries over the years, and gone on several organized psychedelic trips too. I don't believe in God, so I typically just tell people I'm an atheist, but I do believe in the human spirit. Not necessarily a conscious thing that can be sent to heaven or hell or be reborn with memories intact, but just something that exists outside ourselves and will continue on after our temporal bodies fail us. Call it spirit, energy, essence, or whatever.
That's right, many Tildes users partake in some spiritual practice. But I think they are generally not believers, in the sense that, while they incorporate some of these elements into their lives, they usually disassociate such practices from a belief in incorporeal entities or realities which are often at the origin of the same traditions they are benefiting from. That's what I mean by a non-believer.
For example, lots of people do yoga at the gym, but very few embrace the whole of the spiritualist Eastern philosophies that are closely associated with it.
Ooooh what are zen monasteries like?!?!
I imagine it varies a lot based on the particular monastery you go to, and its particular practices. But all the ones I have been to have been incredible. Lots and lots and lots of meditating, sutra recitations, dialogues, and partaking in mindful work around the monastery every day. Retreats are typically pretty much like paying to be a monk for a short stint, so you're usually expected to help around the place (cook, clean, etc), do as the actual monks do, and live much as they live. It's not really a vacation in the traditional sense, but every time I've done a retreat (which hasn't been many in recent years :( I've felt like a huge load was taken off me, and the feeling persisted long after I returned to "normal" life.
That sounds very nice indeed :) monks are what kind of......keep hold of humanity perhaps
I've only been to a few of our monasteries.... they're quiet, contemplative kind of places, it feels like. One of the priests planted a garden and bears came to eat it, as it was on the side of the mountain. Another one has lots of tiny huts and small structures scattered throughout the garden grounds for prayer (eg sort of like group mediation). There are garden jobs to do, kitchen jobs, construction jobs....it's not a retreat in the sense of lazing about like a vacation resort. But a retreat as in, drawing away from the crowd and the world for a purposeful, different kind of struggle.
It sounds like it would be of great benefit if/when you can go again.
Now that COVID is slightly more under control, I probably should strongly consider it. I could use another vacation (not vacation). ;)
Heh heh heh, one has to be very careful vacationing in a monastery, lest one gets drawn in and you can't return the World.
But I kid, I'm sure they would welcome visitors who need a bit of time and space to "be humans again" :)
I've visited a Taoist monastery once, super quiet kind of space, even though it was in the middle of Hong Kong right next to a giant mall and metro station. There's something about prayer and meditation.
Like @cfabbro, I have familiarity with Zen, which is believed to be preceded by Taoism in many aspects.
I don't think Zen or Tao should ultimately disconnect you from the world -- much to the contrary ;)
Yeah, the peace and quiet at every monastery I've been to (even the ones in the heart of major cities) is something special. You can feel it in your core when you walk through the door (or gates). There is just something magical in the air in those places. I used to get a similar feeling in Cathedrals too (I was raised Roman Catholic, so I've been to a lot of those over the years too). Spiritual places have an essence to them that just isn't present anywhere else.
And yes, that would make you a believer under my classification.
Question: were you always an atheist a a child/youth? Followup: how did you move to theism?
Indeed. :( Much abuse has been done in the name of god. Perhaps one day we will have healed enough that we can all hold space for each other in kinder ways.
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I don't think children are theists or atheists, they're just, well... children. I was no different.
From an early age, I had a fascination with the concept of beginnings. What came before this? And before that? That generated a lot of anxiety.
Between 12 and 15 years of age, you might say I was a pre-atheist. I didn't really care about God or anything spiritual, and the lessons I got at my Christian school were laughable. The stories didn't add up, nothing made any sense. I felt arrogant, superior to that nonsense.
However, the morals of Christ and the examples of his actions were undeniably virtuous.
A lot of the bible is like that -- if you manage to not get traumatized by the Church or misguided by tortuous theologies, it is easy to recognize that what he actually did was kinda sublime. He was a good dude, why shouldn't I try to be like him? Forgive those that wronged you, accept everyone with love, elevate the oppressed, embrace the different, give food to the hungry, and solace to the desperate. Be loyal, truthful, patient, and calm, but also strong and resilient. Even if I'm not religious, I should be more like that. Why not?
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From 15 to 18, I was fully atheistic. I read a lot of philosophy, some of which were pro-God. But I just took the parts I agreed with. Descartes made sense up until a point. Hume as well. Spinoza's pantheism was interesting, so logical, and consistent... he must have been an annoying dude to be around, his philosophy is like a fortress, solid, stone by stone from the ground up -- you might remove a rock here and there, but good luck putting it all down. These old thinkers don't play. Thomas Aquinas, another monster, was the first time I learned of the "first mover" argument, initially devised by Aristotle. Given that all that is must have a start, progressively going back to all things there must be one that was, itself, not started. That is what Aquinas and many others called "God". That which was caused by nothing prior. Persuasive argument.
It made sense but did not convince me. Why should the creation of all there is have a start, when, before the universe, time itself did not exist?
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I wish I was good enough to put that into words, but who would I convince? How much about faith can be reasoned? It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, a lot of our lives are really about faith. How do I know my newborn son is worthy of my love? Why should I love him? If, to me, consciousness is an illusion, a trick the brain plays upon itself, what do I have to gain by dedicating years of my life to keeping that creature alive, well, and happy? Why should I indulge in an illusion? And, in the case that I do believe in the existence of the soul, why should believe that anyone but me has one? I know I feel pain and pleasure, but does anyone else? Maybe, just this time, this kid was born without one. He appears to have consciousness, and his behavior is the same as I would expect. How can I tell that he is not a philosophical zombie? Or anyone, for that matter? Why treat people well, contribute to society, or do everything in my power to increase happiness in the world? I don't do it because I know something. I suspect, sure. There are elements pointing towards this. But that is not why I do good. I do well because, somehow, I believe that others, like me, can feel the impact of my actions. Whatever it is that makes me me is also present in everyone else. Regardless of your attitudes towards religion and spirituality, your desire to be virtuous is born out of fundamental faith.
So, to make it very clear, what I am establishing here is that almost everyone, regardless of their opinion on religion and spirituality, functions under some assumption of metaphysical faith. Falling in love is inherently spiritual.
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Don't expect my story to move anyone towards faith. It is personal and means something to me.
One thing to have in mind in all of this is that, unlike a lot of people, religion was never imposed on me. My family was never actively religious or spiritual, my social environment growing up was not particularly religious, and I was never in a situation where either religion or spirituality caused me any kind of shame, restriction, or traumatic event. No one ever gave me any reason to reject religion because, even when people tried to teach me their doctrines, I always had the option to say "no", and if someone at the school was more fundamentalist, my parents were always there to back me up.
I don't recall how old I was, but I once spent a few months at my aunt's house, and she had many books there. One of those books attracted my attention -- it was about "spirits". I started reading out of curiosity like I would read some random Stephen King. I expect it to be curious, exotic, and entertaining. I didn't expect it to make sense. At some point, I was like "Okay, this is all, of course, false. I concede that it is logical, and, if the premises were true, the conclusions would be as well. But, of course, the premises are false, so it doesn't matter that the arguments are good. They are bogus as well".
Convincing fiction, that's all. I forgot about it.
When I was 18, I had a girlfriend. She was not a good person, but I wasn't either. We deserved each other. This girl, let's call her "Jenifer", was a spiritualist. She took me to some lectures, and again, everything I heard made total sense. There was nothing harmful or cultish about it (and no, it won't get cultish later -- and it's been 20 years!). Fiction, right? It wasn't harmful, much to the contrary. I was encouraged to evaluate things by myself, question everything, disagree, etc. These people were not afraid of free thinking and could take criticism (again, that is still true... ). Nothing like the religion I knew!
They also respected and even appreciated other religions, every path was valid, and they made sure to emphasize that atheists and materialists were not at all inferior and were perfectly capable of being just as moral as they could, if not more! I liked that. I liked that a lot.
At that point, I was closer to becoming a part of that group. It was easy because, if at any moment I doubted my faith and wanted to question things or even leave, I could simply do that, with no recriminations. All paths are valid, right?
Also, I was never charged any money nor demanded to dedicate any hours of my day to "the cause". I could do as I please (20 years later... I sure did!).
But it was still useful fiction to me.
And then that happened:
Was this proof? No, absolutely not. There are dozens of ways this could be faked. But the girl was no David Blaine, and the synchronicity was astounding. In the grand scheme of things, this meant something to me, and there are also things I'm incapable to convey with words.
There were other events that were meaningful to me, that I don't think would translate well so I'll keep those to myself. And I had multiple "proofs" in the past twenty years -- again, nothing that would convince James Randi (not that we wanted to...).
I became a spiritualist.
5
Now, to your most complicated question.
Let's recapitulate while I try to add something that connects everything:
So, essentially:
I moved to theism because I believe theism makes sense.
I could go on and on about the subject, but, ultimately, every time someone tries to disprove theism what they're really doing is to disprove religion. It's fairly easy (and important!) to question, oppose, and disprove religion. Theism itself? Not so much. In other words, you can easily poke holes in a particular theory of spiritual metaphysics, but disproving God is a thankless effort. The arguments for atheism are actually not as strong as many believe -- and I'm not saying the arguments for theism are stronger, but I do admit that they're more persuasive to me.
You might say I'm love, and it wouldn't offend me.
Anyway, did I answer your question?
I think you did. I must apologize if I inadvertently asked a very complicated question, but thank you for walking me through that. Every person will find the Way slightly differently and with things close to the soul/heart it's especially difficult to convey to another human being.
I think you did. You're in love. And as someone who is also a theist, the feeling is much closer to a compelling personhood than it is to say, beauty or nature or life force or the overview effect etc.
My experiences are very different but there was a time I had to wrestle with everything I truly wanted to be and have and do, and to put it all down and pick up my cross, metaphorically, and follow. A life force doesn't ask anything of us.
That, strangely enough, is a familiar story in our circle. I 100% believe you.
Interestingly, I wouldn't say my faith is very strong. I cherish it, but It's something I acknowledge on a level that is still too superficial and intellectual. I envy those for whom such matters are deep and spontaneous. My faith is a troubled one, like I'm fighting the abyss.
To be honest I don't even know what people mean by "so and so's faith is strong" anymore. And I'm rather suspicious of people who claim that for themselves.
We don't know how we will react when a crisis occur, and as we pray, lead us not into temptation -- it's safer to assume I'm not that strong, and how little I put into practicing good ethics and decent morals on a day to day basis will reveal my homework assignments are not completed when the teacher comes.
There is another thought.....I grew up in circles where "oh his faith is strong" etc or "be strong in the faith" are used to ....sort of....mean to hold out until good things come to one.
Father Lawrence Farley:
It really upsets me when I hear of illnesses be spoken of as a test to one's faith, or "we are praying to understand His purpose/ His will". What if there isn't: humans get sick and we die. I hate the language of "strong in the faith" used in a way to say when I surely recover from a bad thing, many people will be converted and a church will be planted in my honour and I'll write a best selling book and inspire sermons because of how strong my faith is.
Sorry for the rant. May you and I receive enough strength for the fight today. :)
I don't think I ever really believed even as a child. I was interested in dinosaurs and space, and read a lot of books about it. The stuff they were telling us in Sunday school just didn't seem to fit into my understanding of the world.
Getting the internet was the real nail in the coffin. I randomly came across something breaking down all the reasons a lot of classic bible stories don't really work, and it revealed for the first time that you could just not believe in religion at all.
Hello!
:D I'm Orthodox Christian. Grew up run of the mill Protestant and "came home" to Orthodoxy. Questions welcome (even if it's just "I don't know")
I'm not familiar with Christopagan :) tell me more? Are there special holidays or special adaptations that work better for you? Are there things from other faiths you like but are not part of your practice?
What drew you to the Orthodox side of Christianity?
I grew up Protestant (no longer in the faith though), but I visited an Orthodox church of one of my friends when I was in college a few times, and I was struck by how different it was. It's hard to put into words, but there was a "holiness" I felt there that felt absent from a lot of the churches I went to growing up.
funny you should say.....
i thought my firsf visit to an orthodox church would be to demand to see proof of its apostolic succession. The Church claims that the priest currently serving in this building was ordained by another, who was ordained by another, all the way back in an unbroken line to the first apostles called by Christ. I went in as an intrigued (but respecrful) skeptic, and an hour later i found that i was home.
I had a lifetime's experience in church shopping, for a community that suited my needs, whatever they happened to be. I hadnt expected to find there actually exists THE Church, quite indifferent to who i am and what i needed at all.
It varies person to person, but for me I celebrate all the Christian holidays. The biggest difference with most Christians is that I believe in other Gods too, and believe they're all aspects of Krishna.
Not all Christopagans worship Krishna too. Some mix it with heathenry or the Hellenistic gods or Celtic gods, etc. It's pretty eclectic and all you're really guaranteed to find in common among Christopagans is a love for Jesus.
I believe in reincarnation but I also believe in Heaven. I believe when we die we go to Heaven but if we want to we can reincarnate. I'm not sure how others believe though.
Hey all! I'm an eclectic pagan, primarily borrowing my practice from Druidry, and my theology from pantheism. I grew up in a... somewhat unusual sect of Christianity, and after discovering the problems with the faith I'd been raised in I wandered for some time as an atheist, before finding myself drawn to earth based worship, which has really been good for me #^-^#
Do you guys have speciality food and beverages? :) My experiences with druids are from the d&D class and it just struck me that perhaps y'all would have a good appreciation for really nice and unique dishes
Druidry is a practice that places a very large emphasis on personal inspiration and study, relatively few things are dictated. With that said, it has a very environmental leaning, so foods that are good that way are probably relatively common. Beyond that, like with Wicca, celebrating the Wheel of the Year is a common practice, and there are definitely some particular foods associated with those festivals.
I grew up essentially evangelical. Most of my community was in that realm, and I went to a really small Christian school ( that actually was a surprisingly excellent education) in my small hometown.
In high school and college, I didn't really want anything to do with organized religion. Not to sound elitist or condescending, but not that many people I grew up with never cared that deeply about the more intellectual side of the Christian faith: Hermeneutics, Theology, etc., so I was never really exposed to those topics. I assumed that there was really nothing there.
Now, I really enjoy reading and studying theology and philosophy. I go to what would be labeled as a Protestant church, but it is not really Evangelical. It's somewhat of a mix of "high" and "low" church. As I have gotten older, and having grown up in an Evangelical environment, I have grown much more appreciative of more "high-er" church.
I was talking with a friend about this earlier this week, and I think I pinpointed why I've grown to like a more traditional service over an evangelical one. What sometimes presents as boring to some people, presents as reverence to me. Not that I don't think God isn't personal, but it just feels more appropriate to me to be more respectful(?) I think reverent is a good word. I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with a more "contemporary" worship service/ message. For me, some Evangelical church services just feel a little too relaxed and I just appreciate a more reverential attitude.
And in all of that, I acknowledge that this is a purely preferential choice. I think if I grew up in a more traditional church I would probably be seeking a more relaxed environment!
In sum, I landed pretty squarely in a relatively Orthodox Protestant position.
All of that to say, it's been a long journey, but I'm thankful for it.
:) I know what you mean!
Some places are more Holy by being set apart: Bethel, the burning bush, the desert, Mt Sinai, Mt Tabor, Jerusalem, inside the holy of holies.....behind the iconostasis....
I find it helps me focus more.
I quite like the traditional liturgical services too. Reformed Oriental Orthodox here. I'm probably agnostic personally but the liturgy brings a certain comfort.
I’m a fairly orthodox Buddhist that practices within a rather modernist, if still fairly traditional school (Thai Forest).
I treat kamma/karma and rebirth seriously even if on a certain level I’m agnostic. I do my best to follow the five precepts. I give to support the monastic community, attend relatively regularly over zoom, chant, meditate, and listen to dhamma talks. Just generally do my best to engage with it and practice on a consistent basis.
Whether or not it's "actually true", I believe that there is a benefit to doing so and very few negative consequences.
I was born and raised Roman Catholic and despite not really going to mass anymore, I retain an appreciation for certain forms of spirituality in the church. Namely I really like the idea of Ignatian spirituality and what it aims to bring about in one’s life. To quote the wiki page the aim of this school of spirituality is
In addition, I have a firm appreciation of Franciscan spirituality and its focus on communion with nature in all of its visible forms.
That sounds challenging but potentially worthwhile. That's the negative formulation (eg, thou shalt not.....); is there a corresponding positive ? That is, so how then should one be motivated by and how should one make decisions and to what should one allow ourselves to be attached to and influenced by?
I think we would all have a more lovely world of we spend more time dwelling in nature.
I was raised in a Protestant Christian household in the US, however I never took to it. My parents pushed me into participating in church activities despite having no interest in it, which made me resent it as I grew older. I was a teenager during the "New Atheist" period of the '00s and was pretty taken by those ideas at the time. Looking back, while my rejection of religion was important to me, there was/is also a lot of toxicity in the atheist community, so I feel a complicated relationship to it, and I'm glad that cultural moment has passed.
I'm still an atheist, but I've been interested in Buddhism for a while, and I'm a member of a western Theravada Buddhist community. It's appealing to me as an atheist because there are essentially no supernatural/metaphysical commitments involved with practice. Kamma/rebirth I interpret metaphorically, but they aren't a huge part of it anyway. I go back and forth about whether I use the label 'Buddhist' for myself, but I guess that's another discussion.
As for spirituality, I don't really know what it means to me, to be honest. When I was a child it was about a relationship with Jesus, when I was an teenage atheist it was something I found silly and distasteful, which I didn't take seriously. As a Buddhist, I suppose it's about walking the Path and growing as a person, cultivating skillful states of mind and behavior that lead to end of suffering. Spirituality for me feels like on a spectrum with the kind of work you do in therapy.
I do sense that spirituality is ripe for a rediscovery for me. I haven't figured out my relationship to it. My atheist leanings make it difficult to engage with. However, I recognize that there are spiritual human experiences that have value, which I may want to engage with more in the future. It feels like I lack a roadmap for understanding it, though.
I guess I’m the first atheist in this thread. I would say though, that one can still find meaning and inspiration in the complexity and mystery of a universe that doesn’t care in the slightest about you individually.
Was raised Evangelical/Baptist/Southern Baptist though my family occasionally flirted with another denominations of Christianity for periods of time (Pentacostal). Went to Christian school K through 12 and preschool, also Christian university. While I was truly a believer, even as a teen I could see some BS (what in those circles is called "legalistic" - schools/churches that are very strict and scared of even something like "Christian Rock" being a thing that exists), and my resentment/questioning only grew as I grew. In college I moved towards non-denominational churches, still not politically progressive, but not as strictly conservative either. Then after much thought, and reading Blue Like Jazz, and it resonating with me how the hate towards LGBTQIA+ community was just wrong, I personally moved towards a politically more progressive view and a more deistic / less organized view ("I don't need church, just me and god in the mountains is fine").
After a while, started questioning whether I really believed it at all anymore. Once you see a little bit of BS, a lot of the rest of it starts to look similarly questionable. After watching plenty of debates, watching some "deconversion" videos (3vid3nc3's "why i am no longer a christian", etc) I deconverted. Went pretty hard into the atheism content, and I still resonate with some of that and consider myself an atheist now, but I'm not leaning as hard into it, as it's just not necessary. I'm partially past my anti-theism phase, in that, it's less the theism I have a problem with and more the dogma and certainty that I do have problems with- and overall how those inform what I see as absolutely unacceptable views about marginalized groups, etc.
I'm an agnostic-atheist to an extent. While I don't believe a supernatural force or deity exists, especially not in any of the ways humans have described up to now, maybe there is something nebulous and ungraspable in addition to the natural world, or maybe something interesting happens when we die other than lights out- I am open to possibilities but find no reason to dogmatically latch onto any of them. I do find bits and pieces of views from some traditions useful (like meditation from Buddhism, a religion I've flirted with a bit from a distance, but very much a distance). Some of Buddhisms descriptions/views of how the mind works and so forth can make a lot of sense- though psychology might arrive at some similar views without the Buddhism being necessary to do so, etc. - so if there's something useful from Taoism, Buddhism, or other traditions (or their thinkers) then it's fine to personally use those bits to enrich one's life
I also appreciate ritual in some forms. The ritual of making tea, or lighting and enjoying incense, or some kind of grief ritual or shrine to a loved one. Meditation and self-reflection. I am all for us creating our own idea of "spirituality" because I think our minds are expansive enough to allow that- without dogma it can be a creative and fulfilling way to interact with the world. We can even suspend disbelief to enjoy these types of things as long as they don't harm others and we know that we're actively suspending it. I know when I light incense and listen to extreme metal I'm not actually calling forth some powers from the underworld or whatever but it does put me in some incredible mental states. That type of thing. Heck, cast a spell to start your day if you think it'll have a positive mental impact. It's not that there's anything magical to the act, it's just that the act has such an effect on our perceptions, emotions, etc that it can essentially still "work".
Sorry for this being so long and rambling- but I find this "personal creative spirituality" to be something akin to finding things that put us in various mental states where we feel at our best (or however we desire to feel). For me, when I play guitar / instruments / sing I can sometimes enter a flow/zone/trance-like high kind of state where my "thoughts" part of my mind is deactivated and just an automatic euphoric state is entered- and I think we can create our own rituals and such that do a similar thing. Do no harm, create your own meaning if you don't find it elsewhere, and if you are religious, allow that to inform how you do good to others, instead of how you condemn or attempt to convert them, etc.
Damn, it is so impossible for me to be concise about things. Sorry.
Mine is, perhaps, an interesting one. I'm from a Christian ethnoreligious group, the St Thomas Christians of South India so my religion is part of my personal identity rather than primarily my spiritual identity.
There are a few million of us, traditionally endogamous and due to fun schisms and colonisation range over a bunch of denominations from Syrian Catholics in communion with Rome to various flavours of Oriental Orthodox to evangelical Protestants, who all nonetheless share the same cultural identity as 'Suriani' (lit. Syrians since historically most of us recognised the primacy of the Patriarch of Antioch).
The easiest analogue I've found is to Judaism- a Jewish person may be atheist, agnostic, reform, orthodox but they're still likely to identify as Jewish.
I initially read the question as asking something like how I define spirituality. When I saw that the question was meant in a broader sense (it's place in one's life, specific kinds of meaning that is brings one, etc), it still made sense to me to try to explain my spirituality by starting with my understanding of what "spirituality" is all about.
So, to me, spirituality is all about one's relationship with one's ground.
What does that mean?!?
Well, we all have what we could call a conventional sense of self. Exactly how we identify this varies a bit, but the general outlines are the same: this particular body, life story, personality tendencies, and location in a network of social relationships. This complex is what we generally mean when we say "I" or "me." This conventional self is a totally valid thing to keep track of and important to take care of, but from a spiritual perspective there is something much deeper or truer about who/what we really are. The deeper truth is that we are not just this particular, independent, self-existing object called "me."
The way that different spiritual traditions think about this deeper nature is where paths tend to diverge. Earth centered paths tend to emphasize our existence as a network of relationships in a greater life/cosmic process. Non-dual traditions emphasize the immediate, here-and-now fact of awareness that does not have any particular identity. Western theological traditions tend to emphasize the fundamental beingness which is the real root of my being. However we may approach it, this ground - that from which "I" emerge, in which "I" appear, and into which "I" later return - is the truth at the core of my being. Spirituality, then, is the art and practice of remembering and returning to a clarity about this.
Personally, spirituality has been the enduring passion of my life - from long before I could have offered such an articulate definition of what I was after, spiritual traditions in their many forms are what I was attracted to. I have been rewardingly engaged at different times (and often overlapping) with Catholic, Theravada Buddhist, Lakota, Orthodox Christian, Vajrayana Buddhist (in some sense my core tradition), and various western occult traditions. I love their ritual, art, theology/philosophy, and the heart guidance of the elders and masters of these traditions. I love exploring their variety, recognizing their distinct strengths, understanding parallels and differences, and I have spent time engaging seriously with their practices, getting at least a sense of where they go, and clarifying my own heart in the process.
I'm a new tildes user and have been looking for a long time for a place where I can engage meaningfully and in depth with people about their paths and traditions, so I hope to connect with more of you here, and if anyone wants to talk about anything, whether personal experiences and challenges or the theological nuances, hit me up.
Based on my username you could probably guess what my general religious beliefs are lol. I am a jodu-shinshu buddhist. Being born in a blue state and being raised by an agnostic and a spiritual-but-not-religious(?) person in America I have essentially been more or less irreligious for most of my life. I went through an atheist phase, and was apart of that for a while, but then I got into satanism, and then pantheism, and after a while had gotten into philosophical taoism, which led me to westernized buddhism, and I spent months learning about and understanding buddhism, forgetting about my other religious beliefs, and getting into actual (i.e traditional) buddhism.
Being in America it is harder to be a buddhist. There is lesser amount of buddhists compared to most of asia, and when there are they often times may end up being a westernized buddhist. And for multiple reasons (including lack of nearby temples) it is hard to congregate with other buddhists, despite that being an important part of buddhism.
I think I would say that the impact of buddhism on my life has been good. I think I had a hole which only religion could fill, and buddhism is just the one that makes the most sense to me.
I'm not very spiritual, except when I'm in psychosis, when I'm crazy god is the only way to explain what I experience, I happily take my anti psychotics due to how intense I see god
For me, spirituality means being able to move and act from a place of inner peace, which can only have effects that do not harm anybody or anything.
I grew up very much as a non-practicing Roman Catholic with a penchant for divination. For years I could never really reconcile these ideas, especially with the Christian teachings of "do not believe in false gods" or something.
My being a Roman Catholic stems from everyone in my family being Christian in some form (some Catholic, some Evangelical, some Protestant). Add to that my studies in a secular university which ironically teaches Christianity for religious education. It didn't end up completely being moot though because this understanding helped develop my current sense of spirituality. It's just funny to me that I chose to be atheist for a couple of years after coming out gay (I thought if I mentally checked out from being a Catholic, I wouldn't have to deal with the guilt and hell!), though I did come back to the religion after a chance encounter with a priest who assured me that God loves everybody (and with my current understanding, it is true).
Fortune telling with tarot cards has always been something I enjoyed, which I gathered from the women in my family. It may just be a way to deal with the uncertainties in life and back then, all of the outcomes really did seem to happen, so there was no disadvantage in not believing them. As mentioned earlier, I didn't really want to believe in it because it seemed to be in conflict with the Christian beliefs of "there is no other god but God".
I rediscovered my spirituality after being broken up with almost half a year ago. I still was a non-practicing Catholic but I already leaned towards divination and astrology. I finally read the book A Return to Love by Marianne Williamson (I'm not paid to say this) after seeing a couple of passages cited by people on TikTok, as well as The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. It wasn't until then that I started along my spiritual journey, to which I arrive now.
How could I summarize my spirituality then? I believe in a higher being (call that God, Universe, Source, whatever you might want to call it), I believe that it wants what's best for me and it has been communicating to me but it was up to me to listen to it. And when I say "me", it doesn't have to be just me, but it could be you too. There's plenty of love (or "divine" energy, or whatever you might also want to call it) to go around. :)
It’s intensely personal and I feel weird even talking about it. I don’t believe in any religion, and am very skeptical in these matters … and yet I pray. I’m not really sure what or whom I’m praying to. Maybe it’s to the inner, quiet part of me that’s part of the great “mystery”, or maybe it’s to some “source” I kind of feel is there. Even if it’s a pointless exercise and I’m deluding myself, I feel like it helps … if only to put myself in a certain frame of mind to allow for those possibilities to occur.
For me, spirituality is something I've struggled with most of my life.
Organized religion is something that has mostly upset me the more I come across it in adulthood, and I was quite strongly opposed to it for a great deal of time. However, on meeting my partner, I have relaxed a bit. She has shown me that with Catholicism (her religion), there is more to it than just going to church and abiding the wishes of some deity. A huge part of it is just being part of a community with similar ideals and a reasonably consistent idea of what being a good person is. She no longer believes in God or many of the more supernatural elements of her religion, but she is a strong advocate of people going to church just to socialize and connect with people. She has told me about the experiences she has when she was young thanks to the nuns and local organization raising money and time to teach children about exploration of the world, each other, food, exercise and so much more.
Something about this as resonated with me. I can see past the flaws of the bigger organizations and accept that any large-enough group will have some amount of corruption and members advocating for things I don't personally agree with. But on a smaller scale, so much good can come from people all being vested in their local community and people around them.
There is still a lot I dislike about most major religions as a whole (with no animosity to anyone who is a part of one), and I can't say that I believe in anything supernatural. But I have found some spirituality in the joy of humans being good to one another, often with no expectation of anything in return other than that same goodness.
I'm an atheist / secular Buddhist. I try to practice insight meditation regularly but for some reason it's a hard habit for me to maintain. I believe that the "self" or ego is an illusion, and being able to realize that your thoughts aren't YOU, they just pop into your head, can alleviate a lot of mental suffering. I think nothing happens after you die. There's no afterlife, no reincarnation, it's just like it was before you were born ie nothing - nonexistence. I think life is special and mysterious and the closest thing to a "meaning" of life is to appreciate the wonder of existence and the world. The fact that we are here at all is a sort of "miracle".
I wasn't brought up in the church, though my father did try to "give me" religion after my parent's divorce.
Ultimately I classify myself as an agnostic who accepts that for a finite being to attempt to understand an infinite systems seems foolhardy.
With that said, I did do a fair amount of psychedelics in my day and I am an active community organizer so I have a very humanistic bent to my activities and do believe that in belief humans can find a drive/power of sorts. I think that the only "meaning" to be found is the meaning you provide so I choose to make lessening the suffering of others' mine.
As an atheist born and raised, spirituality is a sense of awe you get with art, nature, etc. a "poetic" way of being in the world, or having elevated thoughts. I consider myself more more spiritual than your average theist.
I think this is what might be called a sense of the numinous- an awareness of the uncanny awe that something beyond the merely human inspires.