RIP Pope Francis. Not without his flaws, but someone who (as someone raised Catholic) emphasized those aspects to of the faith which are most important. May our next pope carry on the work.
RIP Pope Francis. Not without his flaws, but someone who (as someone raised Catholic) emphasized those aspects to of the faith which are most important. May our next pope carry on the work.
I was no longer a Catholic by the time Pope Francis was elected but I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools from K-12 and to a Jesuit school for undergrad. I have a great fondness for Jesuits...
I was no longer a Catholic by the time Pope Francis was elected but I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools from K-12 and to a Jesuit school for undergrad. I have a great fondness for Jesuits and Pope Francis, while he was still Catholic as I had to shake my queer friends and yell, had such a focus on dignity and mercy.
Easter was about 2 weeks after his election and I remember him on Holy Thursday washing the feet not of the other clergy as was the tradition, but of the inmates at a youth prison, with the fact that several were young women and that several were Muslim standing out.
That spoke to me of faith built from teachings of service that I may no longer believe in the theology of, but that I deeply believe in the principles of.
I may not believe in the divinity of Jesus or be certain about the existence of any God but growing up as and still being culturally Catholic I can see the value and virtue of as acting as Jesus...
I may not believe in the divinity of Jesus or be certain about the existence of any God but growing up as and still being culturally Catholic I can see the value and virtue of as acting as Jesus taught.
I like that his final message was one of Easter joy and the one before that was about mercy.
I grew up pretty anti - Catholic, and happy to report that that's no longer the case. That's a beautiful act hopefully the start of a new tradition. Thank you for sharing this, I didn't know it....
I grew up pretty anti - Catholic, and happy to report that that's no longer the case.
That's a beautiful act hopefully the start of a new tradition. Thank you for sharing this, I didn't know it.
I've got no love for the Catholic Church, but Pope Francis did attempt to refocus the doctrine on the message of Jesus with respect to poverty and compassion. The Pope's April 18 "Meditations and...
I've got no love for the Catholic Church, but Pope Francis did attempt to refocus the doctrine on the message of Jesus with respect to poverty and compassion.
"Today’s builders of Babel tell us that there is no room for losers, and that those who fall along the way are losers. Theirs is the construction site of Hell. God’s economy, on the other hand, does not kill, discard or crush. It is lowly, faithful to the earth. Your way, Jesus, is the way of the Beatitudes. It does not crush, but cultivates, repairs and protects."
This seems a very pointed message to JD Vance and company, and I think you may be seeing the phrase "the construction site of Hell" often.
Oh no. That's a bit unexpected. Two weeks ago it wouldn't have been that surprising, but now that he has just started to make public appearences again I thought he was over the worst part of his...
Oh no. That's a bit unexpected. Two weeks ago it wouldn't have been that surprising, but now that he has just started to make public appearences again I thought he was over the worst part of his illness.
I'm afraid this will halt a lot of reform processes in the catholic church. His prorgressive actions weren't all to popular among other church officials. Nothing's set in stone yet, but this is likely not a good sign for the future of the church.
He reigned long enough to appoint most of the cardinals who will choose his replacement. Not to imply the next one will be like him, but his opponents within the church don’t necessarily have the...
He reigned long enough to appoint most of the cardinals who will choose his replacement. Not to imply the next one will be like him, but his opponents within the church don’t necessarily have the institutional power needed to completely revert things.
I saw a video of him meeting with JD Vance yesterday. He did not look like he had much longer. I suspect him being released from the hospital was mostly because the acute issue had been resolved...
I saw a video of him meeting with JD Vance yesterday. He did not look like he had much longer. I suspect him being released from the hospital was mostly because the acute issue had been resolved and they wanted to release him into hospice.
If you look around the wiki you'll see that to some degree the label is ironic, with it being a "reclamation" of the term from those who use it with derision as a blanketing insult.
If you look around the wiki you'll see that to some degree the label is ironic, with it being a "reclamation" of the term from those who use it with derision as a blanketing insult.
I could be wrong, but I think Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines) is the most progressive of the bunch with Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu (Congo) being the least. First Asian Pope, maybe.
I could be wrong, but I think Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines) is the most progressive of the bunch with Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu (Congo) being the least.
"Reformist" may be a better word. For example, the Church may never allow women into the priesthood, but through Francis, women now have access to high-level leadership in both the Holy See and...
"Reformist" may be a better word. For example, the Church may never allow women into the priesthood, but through Francis, women now have access to high-level leadership in both the Holy See and the Vatican City state. Sure, big deal, many countries have allowed that for decades, centuries even, so that's not really "progressive." But it is quite a reform for a 2000yo institution that's always been male-run.
Financial transparency. Stricter laws & regulations and more transparency concerning child sexual abuse. Less focus on doctrine and more focus on the people who make up the global flock. These are all major reforms.
I suppose if anything could be considered progressive, it would be a focus on the environment that Francis spearheaded.
In addition to what others have noted, while the Church is of course very conservative in many aspects, its social teaching can be very meaningfully progressive. It is one thing to focus the...
In addition to what others have noted, while the Church is of course very conservative in many aspects, its social teaching can be very meaningfully progressive. It is one thing to focus the Church on the global poor, which may be done by a conservative pontiff as well, but another to (for example) explicitly call out capitalism and the billionaire class as the root causes for inequality:
As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world’s problems or, for that matter, to any problems.
I'm not Catholic, but I'd be happy with progressiveness in a church leader to mean taking earth's stewardship seriously, and to not view spreading dominion of the church across the world as its...
I'm not Catholic, but I'd be happy with progressiveness in a church leader to mean taking earth's stewardship seriously, and to not view spreading dominion of the church across the world as its central mission. Maybe a focus on caring for refugees and immigrants would be nice. I don't super care about the cultural background of the next Pope but it might be nice to have a not white Pope.
I wouldn't dream of progressiveness this day and age being, say, inclusion of gay priests or gender diversity. I think that's still very far away if ever.
But my hope of hopes is for any Christian claiming organization to get back to its roots, to totally go back to the mission given by Christ, to care for the downtrodden and opporessed, to speak against injustice esp against this with money and power, to use diplomatic powers to visit/aid to those in prisons and at least maintain humane conditions, and to show self sacrificial level kindness especially to one's "enemies" or those who won't submit to the church's authority.
While that is true, Pope Francis did allow "Blessings of Couples in Irregular Situations and of Couples of the Same Sex" (the first term basically referring to divorced and remarried couples), in...
I wouldn't dream of progressiveness this day and age being, say, inclusion of gay priests or gender diversity. I think that's still very far away if ever.
While that is true, Pope Francis did allow "Blessings of Couples in Irregular Situations and of Couples of the Same Sex" (the first term basically referring to divorced and remarried couples), in his declaration "Fiducia Supplicans". It's not equivalent to gay marriage, but it's a huge step forward that would've been unthinkable under his predecessors.
Similarly he's recently put women in leadership roles in the vatican, which was quite a shock to some conservative cardinals working with them.
This may not seem unusually progressive for western standards, but given what the baseline worldview in the catholic church was when he took over, he's probably made more progress than most western leaders of late.
Also disregarding any of his political stances - if all politicians had the level of integrity that guy had, the world would for sure be a better place. Not only did he actively fight corruption in the vatican (- he's fired a bunch of leaders in the vatican that tried to continue running shady financial deals behind his back), he did so in an incredibly authentic way. Other than many of his predecessors he didn't just preach modesty, he actually lived it by refusing most of the luxuries he was offered due to his role as Pontifex.
Independently of any beliefs I may hold, that guy has definitely earned my respect with the actions he took during his time as Pope.
That's certainly the case for the most part when it comes to the global Anglican communion and the Methodist church. I don't know much about the Roman Catholic church in Africa, though.
That's certainly the case for the most part when it comes to the global Anglican communion and the Methodist church. I don't know much about the Roman Catholic church in Africa, though.
I've never understood this. What makes the Pope dying of natural causes such a sad event for some Catholics? Do they just really see him as their papa?
I've never understood this. What makes the Pope dying of natural causes such a sad event for some Catholics? Do they just really see him as their papa?
gestures at the Queen's death people often care about figureheads Their spiritual leader, sometimes for decades, whose words guided their church and who they prayed for at every Mass died. (And...
gestures at the Queen's death people often care about figureheads
Their spiritual leader, sometimes for decades, whose words guided their church and who they prayed for at every Mass died. (And there are certainly some as happy he's dead as others were about Lizzie being in a box. ) It's definitely not the same as losing my actual father, having lost a few popes and my real father while I was still Catholic.
Mostly for laughs, because I don't expect them to be very accurate (previous elections often were won by people out of left field), but here are some prediction markets on the next pope: [1] [2]
Mostly for laughs, because I don't expect them to be very accurate (previous elections often were won by people out of left field), but here are some prediction markets on the next pope:
[1]
[2]
I'm surprised at all the outpouring of positive emotion I've seen online. I find it hard to have much sympathy for a man who repeatedly spoke about how much he hated people like me. Good riddance...
I'm surprised at all the outpouring of positive emotion I've seen online. I find it hard to have much sympathy for a man who repeatedly spoke about how much he hated people like me. Good riddance to another hateful bigot.
Queer ex-Catholic atheist here who still largely despises the Church, although was moderately impressed by their choice of Pope Francis, and was happy to see all the reformist actions he took...
Queer ex-Catholic atheist here who still largely despises the Church, although was moderately impressed by their choice of Pope Francis, and was happy to see all the reformist actions he took during his tenure... when did Francis ever say he hated anyone?
Are you mistaking him for his predecessor, Pope Benedict (who made it abundantly clear he thought LGBT+ people had a "strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil")?
No, I am indeed referring to Pope Francis, who also had some awful things to say about transgender people. "Gender ideology is the ugliest danger of our time" and his insane comparison between...
"the Lord always walks with us. ... Even if we are sinners, he draws near to help us. The Lord loves us as we are. This is God's crazy love."
In line with his consistent views on the evil of trans people over years, how am I to even interpret his incredibly vague "positive" statements? Is this not him calling someone a sinner for being transgender, and implying God will help someone come to Francis' idea of the "right" answer?
Or look at how with his approval, the Vatican put out 'Dignitas Infinita', a manifesto that claims gender theory is evil and dangerous (specifically mentioning gender-affirming surgery as a grave violation of human dignity), throwing it under the same category as genocide.
Sure, he said some okay things about gay people. I won't deny he was progressive - for a pope. But he wasn't even in the camp that held apathy towards trans people, he actively promoted hatred and oppression. Not to mention his thoughts on abortion and his involvement in child abuse cases in Argentina. I stand by my belief that he was an evil man and the world is brighter without him.
Context: not at all Catholic, but I know this is an area where opposing viewpoints can easily talk past each other. Please do not take this as me minimizing you or your feelings, only as me saying...
Exemplary
Context: not at all Catholic, but I know this is an area where opposing viewpoints can easily talk past each other.
Please do not take this as me minimizing you or your feelings, only as me saying I do not think this one specific argument is a good argument and, indeed, think it is one that causes you more pain than it convinces anyone else that he was "bad."
"the Lord always walks with us. ... Even if we are sinners, he draws near to help us. The Lord loves us as we are. This is God's crazy love."
In line with his consistent views on the evil of trans people over years, how am I to even interpret his incredibly vague "positive" statements? Is this not him calling someone a sinner for being transgender, and implying God will help someone come to Francis' idea of the "right" answer?
I know this comment feels like it's just a way for him/them to soften what seems to be an attack on you as a person, but it's important to remember that in actually teachings (not necessarily personal opinions), there is no difference between you being a sinner for doing one thing or another. He's not saying "you, [insert trans slur] are a sinner because you do icky trans things but God still loves you." He's saying that we're all sinners and we're no different from one another.
It's okay to dislike him and his views, but he's saying that we're all bad but God loves us all no matter what, so do not despair. He is not saying "you are a sinner for being transgender." He believes everyone is a sinner: "For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight."
So, please, if you believe in affirming and supporting trans people, continue to speak out against what he said, especially if you see his comments as promoting a narrative that make the world less safe and compassionate for others. But don't think that those comments express hatred of you or call you any worse because of who you are.
Again, I'm not saying all this to tell you you're wrong and you should re-evaluate. I'm just saying that you're missing the point of what he's saying to the detriment of your claims (and probably to the detriment of your own happiness, if only to a small degree).
Your anger towards Pope Francis makes sense, and is totally understandable now, reading all that. Thanks for sharing some of the more hateful leaning things towards trans people that he said and...
Your anger towards Pope Francis makes sense, and is totally understandable now, reading all that. Thanks for sharing some of the more hateful leaning things towards trans people that he said and helped promote as Pope. I was unaware of them. I had only heard about him changing the Church's policies to finally allow trans people to be baptized and become Godparents, which were two very positive changes, IMO. I didn't realize that despite making those positive changes, he was also simultaneously attacking "gender ideology" and gender-affirming surgery. :(
Yeah :( I do wish I could say that he was progressive and accepting. I suppose his views about trans people just weren't notable enough for most people to hear about them. Or when someone says...
Yeah :( I do wish I could say that he was progressive and accepting. I suppose his views about trans people just weren't notable enough for most people to hear about them. Or when someone says something positive about gay people it'll often be in a headline as a remark about the LGBT community as a whole, so I think some people assumed his statements were largely positive about the entire queer community.
For me it's more that I expect a base level of Catholicism, and within that model, he was quite... Progressive isn't what I want as a word. He focused on the human dignity of people rather than...
For me it's more that I expect a base level of Catholicism, and within that model, he was quite... Progressive isn't what I want as a word. He focused on the human dignity of people rather than their identity - which is the Catholic POV - in a way that stands out in contrast to the claimed "love the sinner hate the sin"..." but actually be a real judge-y asshole about it" I see from others. He truly seemed to care about the poor and being a shepherd in a way that other Popes and many many priests didn't.
So yeah, it's not that I think he was all good, just that he tried to refocus the church on things more important than yelling about abortion, sin, etc. like the environment, mercy, and healthcare.
Your views make perfect sense, and since I grew up Catholic I have an understanding of that underlying worldview so I'm definitely weighing him on a different scale. For a pope, he was pretty good, but he was still the Pope.
ETA: I treat the Catholic Church like an estranged family member who was very influential in my childhood who I don't talk to anymore because they're an asshole but still keep tabs on. Pope Francis had several traits that made me hopeful the Church was making progress and changing for the better even if I wasn't going to invite it back into my life.
I don't recall him making any particularly hateful statements. If anything, he was very progressive for the Catholic church. I vaguely remember the shock way back when he didn't automatically...
I don't recall him making any particularly hateful statements. If anything, he was very progressive for the Catholic church. I vaguely remember the shock way back when he didn't automatically dismiss or insult the idea of gay priests back in 2013. And from there, I remember him being surprisingly open and encouraging acceptance of LGBT communities and other progressive causes.
From this TIME article, he even signed documents allowing transgender people to be baptized and become godparents, and allowed blessings to gay couples. As someone who grew up at a highly conservative Catholic school (even by Catholic school standards based on some relatives' reactions), those two moves alone are HUGE. Actually, that article gives me even more appreciation now. I didn't realize just how much progress he made in encouraging more progressive mindsets in the Church. The steps may have been small in the larger scheme, but given how rigid and conservative the Catholic church is, the fact he made those steps at all is significant.
It makes me sad and a bit worried for the future now. I can only hope his successor wants to continue this legacy of encouraging support and acceptance instead of trying to undo the progress he made. The world needs leaders who encourage compassion and acceptance more than ever.
He did replace a large number of the Cardinals which does not guarantee a more progressive future pope, but it means most of the people voting were selected by him.
He did replace a large number of the Cardinals which does not guarantee a more progressive future pope, but it means most of the people voting were selected by him.
RIP Pope Francis. Not without his flaws, but someone who (as someone raised Catholic) emphasized those aspects to of the faith which are most important. May our next pope carry on the work.
I was no longer a Catholic by the time Pope Francis was elected but I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools from K-12 and to a Jesuit school for undergrad. I have a great fondness for Jesuits and Pope Francis, while he was still Catholic as I had to shake my queer friends and yell, had such a focus on dignity and mercy.
Easter was about 2 weeks after his election and I remember him on Holy Thursday washing the feet not of the other clergy as was the tradition, but of the inmates at a youth prison, with the fact that several were young women and that several were Muslim standing out.
That spoke to me of faith built from teachings of service that I may no longer believe in the theology of, but that I deeply believe in the principles of.
May he rest in peace
I cried when I saw that moment in a documentary. Such a profound statement of humanity. Thank you for reminding me.
I may not believe in the divinity of Jesus or be certain about the existence of any God but growing up as and still being culturally Catholic I can see the value and virtue of as acting as Jesus taught.
I like that his final message was one of Easter joy and the one before that was about mercy.
I grew up pretty anti - Catholic, and happy to report that that's no longer the case.
That's a beautiful act hopefully the start of a new tradition. Thank you for sharing this, I didn't know it.
May his memory be eternal.
I've got no love for the Catholic Church, but Pope Francis did attempt to refocus the doctrine on the message of Jesus with respect to poverty and compassion.
The Pope's April 18 "Meditations and Prayers for the Via Crucis 2025" (the Good Friday sermon on the Stations of the Cross) included the following:
"Today’s builders of Babel tell us that there is no room for losers, and that those who fall along the way are losers. Theirs is the construction site of Hell. God’s economy, on the other hand, does not kill, discard or crush. It is lowly, faithful to the earth. Your way, Jesus, is the way of the Beatitudes. It does not crush, but cultivates, repairs and protects."
This seems a very pointed message to JD Vance and company, and I think you may be seeing the phrase "the construction site of Hell" often.
Oh no. That's a bit unexpected. Two weeks ago it wouldn't have been that surprising, but now that he has just started to make public appearences again I thought he was over the worst part of his illness.
I'm afraid this will halt a lot of reform processes in the catholic church. His prorgressive actions weren't all to popular among other church officials. Nothing's set in stone yet, but this is likely not a good sign for the future of the church.
He reigned long enough to appoint most of the cardinals who will choose his replacement. Not to imply the next one will be like him, but his opponents within the church don’t necessarily have the institutional power needed to completely revert things.
I saw a video of him meeting with JD Vance yesterday. He did not look like he had much longer. I suspect him being released from the hospital was mostly because the acute issue had been resolved and they wanted to release him into hospice.
Rest in peace.
I found this post from awhile ago to be an interesting look at the ten cardinals likeliest to succeed Francis.
That's a rather surprising subreddit. You don't see a lot of progressive neoliberals in the wild but we have a whole subreddit of them there.
In addition to what @saturnV said, increasingly it’s a broadly center-left space for those who don’t want to wade through r/politics garbage.
If you look around the wiki you'll see that to some degree the label is ironic, with it being a "reclamation" of the term from those who use it with derision as a blanketing insult.
He installed the majority of the cardinals that will elect the next pope, so he could be just as “progressive“ as Francis. Maybe an African pope?
I could be wrong, but I think Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines) is the most progressive of the bunch with Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu (Congo) being the least.
First Asian Pope, maybe.
Since it's a conservative organization into the pretty far end of the scale, what does progressive actually mean in context?
"Reformist" may be a better word. For example, the Church may never allow women into the priesthood, but through Francis, women now have access to high-level leadership in both the Holy See and the Vatican City state. Sure, big deal, many countries have allowed that for decades, centuries even, so that's not really "progressive." But it is quite a reform for a 2000yo institution that's always been male-run.
Financial transparency. Stricter laws & regulations and more transparency concerning child sexual abuse. Less focus on doctrine and more focus on the people who make up the global flock. These are all major reforms.
I suppose if anything could be considered progressive, it would be a focus on the environment that Francis spearheaded.
In addition to what others have noted, while the Church is of course very conservative in many aspects, its social teaching can be very meaningfully progressive. It is one thing to focus the Church on the global poor, which may be done by a conservative pontiff as well, but another to (for example) explicitly call out capitalism and the billionaire class as the root causes for inequality:
^Pope Francis, for example
This article might provide some sense of what is meant. He taught and tried to practice solidarity with poor people around the world.
@jcphoenix
I'm not Catholic, but I'd be happy with progressiveness in a church leader to mean taking earth's stewardship seriously, and to not view spreading dominion of the church across the world as its central mission. Maybe a focus on caring for refugees and immigrants would be nice. I don't super care about the cultural background of the next Pope but it might be nice to have a not white Pope.
I wouldn't dream of progressiveness this day and age being, say, inclusion of gay priests or gender diversity. I think that's still very far away if ever.
But my hope of hopes is for any Christian claiming organization to get back to its roots, to totally go back to the mission given by Christ, to care for the downtrodden and opporessed, to speak against injustice esp against this with money and power, to use diplomatic powers to visit/aid to those in prisons and at least maintain humane conditions, and to show self sacrificial level kindness especially to one's "enemies" or those who won't submit to the church's authority.
Oops this was more of a response to @smoontjes
While that is true, Pope Francis did allow "Blessings of Couples in Irregular Situations and of Couples of the Same Sex" (the first term basically referring to divorced and remarried couples), in his declaration "Fiducia Supplicans". It's not equivalent to gay marriage, but it's a huge step forward that would've been unthinkable under his predecessors.
Similarly he's recently put women in leadership roles in the vatican, which was quite a shock to some conservative cardinals working with them.
This may not seem unusually progressive for western standards, but given what the baseline worldview in the catholic church was when he took over, he's probably made more progress than most western leaders of late.
Also disregarding any of his political stances - if all politicians had the level of integrity that guy had, the world would for sure be a better place. Not only did he actively fight corruption in the vatican (- he's fired a bunch of leaders in the vatican that tried to continue running shady financial deals behind his back), he did so in an incredibly authentic way. Other than many of his predecessors he didn't just preach modesty, he actually lived it by refusing most of the luxuries he was offered due to his role as Pontifex.
Independently of any beliefs I may hold, that guy has definitely earned my respect with the actions he took during his time as Pope.
From what I’ve heard the African Cardinals are among the more conservative. Could be wrong though I don’t know that much about it.
That's certainly the case for the most part when it comes to the global Anglican communion and the Methodist church. I don't know much about the Roman Catholic church in Africa, though.
It is also extremely true for the Catholic church.
No longer Catholic or religious, but the deaths of Popes still get to me. My mum will be devastated.
I've never understood this. What makes the Pope dying of natural causes such a sad event for some Catholics? Do they just really see him as their papa?
gestures at the Queen's death people often care about figureheads
Their spiritual leader, sometimes for decades, whose words guided their church and who they prayed for at every Mass died. (And there are certainly some as happy he's dead as others were about Lizzie being in a box. ) It's definitely not the same as losing my actual father, having lost a few popes and my real father while I was still Catholic.
Mostly for laughs, because I don't expect them to be very accurate (previous elections often were won by people out of left field), but here are some prediction markets on the next pope:
[1]
[2]
This article seems to do a decent job laying out the contenders:
https://www.dw.com/en/who-will-be-the-next-pope-after-francis/a-72302123
I'm surprised at all the outpouring of positive emotion I've seen online. I find it hard to have much sympathy for a man who repeatedly spoke about how much he hated people like me. Good riddance to another hateful bigot.
Queer ex-Catholic atheist here who still largely despises the Church, although was moderately impressed by their choice of Pope Francis, and was happy to see all the reformist actions he took during his tenure... when did Francis ever say he hated anyone?
Are you mistaking him for his predecessor, Pope Benedict (who made it abundantly clear he thought LGBT+ people had a "strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil")?
No, I am indeed referring to Pope Francis, who also had some awful things to say about transgender people. "Gender ideology is the ugliest danger of our time" and his insane comparison between trans people and nuclear weapons both make his thoughts on trans people clear. He did his part to spread fear and hatred.
When I read a story like "Pope tells transgender person: 'God loves us as we are'" where he is quoted as saying:
In line with his consistent views on the evil of trans people over years, how am I to even interpret his incredibly vague "positive" statements? Is this not him calling someone a sinner for being transgender, and implying God will help someone come to Francis' idea of the "right" answer?
Or look at how with his approval, the Vatican put out 'Dignitas Infinita', a manifesto that claims gender theory is evil and dangerous (specifically mentioning gender-affirming surgery as a grave violation of human dignity), throwing it under the same category as genocide.
Sure, he said some okay things about gay people. I won't deny he was progressive - for a pope. But he wasn't even in the camp that held apathy towards trans people, he actively promoted hatred and oppression. Not to mention his thoughts on abortion and his involvement in child abuse cases in Argentina. I stand by my belief that he was an evil man and the world is brighter without him.
Context: not at all Catholic, but I know this is an area where opposing viewpoints can easily talk past each other.
Please do not take this as me minimizing you or your feelings, only as me saying I do not think this one specific argument is a good argument and, indeed, think it is one that causes you more pain than it convinces anyone else that he was "bad."
I know this comment feels like it's just a way for him/them to soften what seems to be an attack on you as a person, but it's important to remember that in actually teachings (not necessarily personal opinions), there is no difference between you being a sinner for doing one thing or another. He's not saying "you, [insert trans slur] are a sinner because you do icky trans things but God still loves you." He's saying that we're all sinners and we're no different from one another.
It's okay to dislike him and his views, but he's saying that we're all bad but God loves us all no matter what, so do not despair. He is not saying "you are a sinner for being transgender." He believes everyone is a sinner: "For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight."
So, please, if you believe in affirming and supporting trans people, continue to speak out against what he said, especially if you see his comments as promoting a narrative that make the world less safe and compassionate for others. But don't think that those comments express hatred of you or call you any worse because of who you are.
Again, I'm not saying all this to tell you you're wrong and you should re-evaluate. I'm just saying that you're missing the point of what he's saying to the detriment of your claims (and probably to the detriment of your own happiness, if only to a small degree).
Your anger towards Pope Francis makes sense, and is totally understandable now, reading all that. Thanks for sharing some of the more hateful leaning things towards trans people that he said and helped promote as Pope. I was unaware of them. I had only heard about him changing the Church's policies to finally allow trans people to be baptized and become Godparents, which were two very positive changes, IMO. I didn't realize that despite making those positive changes, he was also simultaneously attacking "gender ideology" and gender-affirming surgery. :(
Yeah :( I do wish I could say that he was progressive and accepting. I suppose his views about trans people just weren't notable enough for most people to hear about them. Or when someone says something positive about gay people it'll often be in a headline as a remark about the LGBT community as a whole, so I think some people assumed his statements were largely positive about the entire queer community.
For me it's more that I expect a base level of Catholicism, and within that model, he was quite... Progressive isn't what I want as a word. He focused on the human dignity of people rather than their identity - which is the Catholic POV - in a way that stands out in contrast to the claimed "love the sinner hate the sin"..." but actually be a real judge-y asshole about it" I see from others. He truly seemed to care about the poor and being a shepherd in a way that other Popes and many many priests didn't.
So yeah, it's not that I think he was all good, just that he tried to refocus the church on things more important than yelling about abortion, sin, etc. like the environment, mercy, and healthcare.
Your views make perfect sense, and since I grew up Catholic I have an understanding of that underlying worldview so I'm definitely weighing him on a different scale. For a pope, he was pretty good, but he was still the Pope.
ETA: I treat the Catholic Church like an estranged family member who was very influential in my childhood who I don't talk to anymore because they're an asshole but still keep tabs on. Pope Francis had several traits that made me hopeful the Church was making progress and changing for the better even if I wasn't going to invite it back into my life.
I don't recall him making any particularly hateful statements. If anything, he was very progressive for the Catholic church. I vaguely remember the shock way back when he didn't automatically dismiss or insult the idea of gay priests back in 2013. And from there, I remember him being surprisingly open and encouraging acceptance of LGBT communities and other progressive causes.
From this TIME article, he even signed documents allowing transgender people to be baptized and become godparents, and allowed blessings to gay couples. As someone who grew up at a highly conservative Catholic school (even by Catholic school standards based on some relatives' reactions), those two moves alone are HUGE. Actually, that article gives me even more appreciation now. I didn't realize just how much progress he made in encouraging more progressive mindsets in the Church. The steps may have been small in the larger scheme, but given how rigid and conservative the Catholic church is, the fact he made those steps at all is significant.
It makes me sad and a bit worried for the future now. I can only hope his successor wants to continue this legacy of encouraging support and acceptance instead of trying to undo the progress he made. The world needs leaders who encourage compassion and acceptance more than ever.
He did replace a large number of the Cardinals which does not guarantee a more progressive future pope, but it means most of the people voting were selected by him.