I guess this is the "opposing" view - but I actually really enjoyed my time being homeschooled and looking back it is one of the best things that happened in my life. I'm in my 30's now and have...
Exemplary
I guess this is the "opposing" view - but I actually really enjoyed my time being homeschooled and looking back it is one of the best things that happened in my life. I'm in my 30's now and have thought about this topic quite a bit over the years - especially as homeschooling has grown in popularity and grown in infamy.
I was homeschooled from Grades 1-8 (although did attend public school in grades 2 and 5) and then went to public high school. A lot of articles and experiences I read about focus heavily on how parents mistreated/sheltered/lied to their children through the homeschooling experience and then the conclusions follow from there. I do not want to take anything away from those stories, as they are real and the trauma is there, however I do not agree with the conclusion that often follows: homeschooling = bad.
When I read and hear about these stories the common denominator is almost always parents who are overly sheltering their children - perhaps knowingly or unintentionally. Either way - the root of problem is not the homeschooling, but rather the parents approach to the child’s upbringing. In these cases homeschooling can cause serious damage to the child’s upbringing, but at its core it is not THE thing that caused the damage. For that you have to go pack and point the finger at the parents.
Homeschooling is something that can can be absolutely amazing or absolutely terrible for the child. It comes down to how much the parents are going to invest into the process and reasons for homeschooling the child. If parents choose to homeschool to protect their child, I think that is the wrong decision (assuming the child is a “normal” child. Perhaps in cases where a child has extreme anxiety homeschooling may be a solution to protect). Rather, if a parent chooses to homeschool to accelerate and diversity their child’s learning - it can be an exceptional thing.
The latter requires some serious effort from the parents. They need to accomplish the following:
Be aware and up to date with the public school curriculum and teaching their child the same topics at the same pace (or faster pace)
Actively invest into the child’s social upbringing as the child does not have classmates. This would be things like sports, clubs, field trips, social events with other homeschoolers, church, going the extra mile to drop off and pick up your child so they can spend time with friends, etc.
Be parents who are academically and socially capable of doing the job. Between my two parents, they have 5 university degrees in the sciences, math, and philosophy. They also coached local sports teams, volunteered at many local clubs and events, and brought us children with them to many events. To be clear - I don’t think there is a specific education requirement to homeschool your children, but there are absolutely parents who should not be doing it.
Have a real reason for homeschooling the child. Examples include:
teaching the children a broader range of subjects
teaching the children at an accelerated pace, pending the child’s ability to learn
Accommodating a factor that makes public school difficult/impossible. Perhaps the child has a learning disability or cannot attend a consistent public school due to travelling or something.
My final point is one that I think not many people who are critical of homeschooling themselves think about. That point is confirmation bias. Everyone knows the stereotype of the “homeschooled kid being a weirdo”. My assertion is that that stereotype is a result of confirmation bias. My anecdotal evidence for that is when I was homeschooled leading up to public high school I was in a social group of around 40-50 local homeschooled kids (across grades 1-8), many of which ended up attending the same public high school. When these kids went to public school, some were immediately “the homeschooled kid” and many others the general public school had no idea. I was of average social standing in high school but whenever I would mention I was homeschooled to people who didn’t know they would remark something like “what?! How can that be - you are so normal”, and then I could name 10 other people in our grade that were also homeschooled whom everyone considered “normal”, while there would be 2 or 3 that were the “weird homeschooled kids”. I firmly believe that if someone is “normal” or “popular” - no one questions where they were raised or what school they went to. If someone is “weird”, then anything in their upbringing that was outside the norm will become the reason they are “weird”. As soon as the class learns the anti-social “weird” kid was homeschooled, then that becomes their identity. This leads to confirmation bias of homeschooled = weird/anti-social. There are plenty of “weird” kids who went to public school their whole life - they will often get some other branding from the general public.
Anyhow - that was a big an essay. Hopefully that makes some semblance of sense. Happy to answer any questions on my experience/thoughts on homeschooling.
You have no idea how much I agree with your points. I mentioned this in my other comment, but these examples are of a classic archetype; of people taking advantage of good things in order to do...
You have no idea how much I agree with your points. I mentioned this in my other comment, but these examples are of a classic archetype; of people taking advantage of good things in order to do bad things.
Your examples in point number four are the main reasons why in spite of these bad actors, I'm still (in theory) in favor of homeschooling. At it's best, it's giving your kid access to a personalized, in-depth education that would otherwise cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. When I was still in grade school, I was disappointed with a lot of my classes because of how slow they went. I wanted to learn more! I went to gifted programs and honors/AP classes, but for the most part most of those were the same classes just taught "harder"; still learning the same things but simply given more work. I almost didn't pass highschool because the state I went in required passing English I, but English I Honors bored me to tears - it didn't matter that I took much more advanced English and Literature classes and passed those with flying colors. I just imagine how many more topics I could have covered if I weren't doing so much busywork all the time.
But in real terms, the problem with homeschooling is that there aren't people making sure your requirements are being met. Especially number 4. Let's be frank; If someone is taking their kid out of school because they don't want them to learn something, that is child abuse. There is no way that is healthy or conductive to a stable well-adjusted individual. So I understand people who want to outlaw the practice.
I live in a country where public school parents really resist testing of their children as well so this is a problem that can happen in any setting. Kids in my local public grade 5/6 were...
the problem with homeschooling is that there aren't people making sure your requirements are being met.
I live in a country where public school parents really resist testing of their children as well so this is a problem that can happen in any setting.
Kids in my local public grade 5/6 were reviewing the alphabet this year. Absolutely good parents should provide the best education they can afford, whether that's public or home or distance or e-learning.
Absolutely not. Im a former teacher and school principal. In our B.Ed. training our profs made it clear that teachers are 'in loco parentis', that is, they stand in the place of the parent. It is...
If someone is taking their kid out of school because they don't want them to learn something, that is child abuse. There is no way that is healthy or conductive to a stable well-adjusted individual.
Absolutely not. Im a former teacher and school principal. In our B.Ed. training our profs made it clear that teachers are 'in loco parentis', that is, they stand in the place of the parent. It is not the state's responsibility to teach children, that is first and foremost the parent's job. Its just common that most parents dont want to, or dont have the skills or the time to do it, so they give it over to the state to do it. But it's still their choice and if they choose to school their child, it's actually their obligation and right.
Please keep in mind that Tildes has a lot of users from all over the world — there’s kind of an American assumption built into your comment. Also, I think a statement like reads far more like a...
Please keep in mind that Tildes has a lot of users from all over the world — there’s kind of an American assumption built into your comment.
Also, I think a statement like
If someone is taking their kid out of school because they don't want them to learn something, that is child abuse. There is no way that is healthy or conductive to a stable well-adjusted individual.
reads far more like a statement on immorality than on legality.
I think you have mischaracterized what it was that I had to say. I am not against the concept of homeschooling; as I said in the start of that comment that I am all for it, at least in theory....
I think you have mischaracterized what it was that I had to say. I am not against the concept of homeschooling; as I said in the start of that comment that I am all for it, at least in theory. Parents can and should take their children out of public schools if they have a means of providing a superior education. I'm not even arguing against religious schooling, as much as I typically dislike organized religion.
The thing I am very much against is preventing a child from getting a good education because they don't want them to learn about something. It's unethical, immoral, unhealthy for the child, and unhealthy for society as a whole, which has a stake in ensuring that its constituents are well educated and informed. I really can't describe it as anything except abusive considering there is practically zero costs involved to send a child to public schools and they only require what is generally considered to be the absolute minimum needed to function in society.
If there is any legal framework which explicitly allows for parents to give children an inferior education, than it is in everyone's best interests to eliminate that framework.
But in saying that you are making that judgment that you know what is best for the child, and that to not be taught something in particular is unethical, immoral, unhealthy or inferior and that...
The thing I am very much against is preventing a child from getting a good education because they don't want them to learn about something. It's unethical, immoral, unhealthy for the child, and unhealthy for society
But in saying that you are making that judgment that you know what is best for the child, and that to not be taught something in particular is unethical, immoral, unhealthy or inferior and that you know what a 'good education' is moreso than a parent. There are several things that some parents, especially religious parents would feel the opposite about and thats why they have the right to choose what is best for their child. Im not trying to be rude, what Im saying is its not your call nor mine to make, its the parents call and the state cant override that, otherwise we'd have an authoritarian government and if anything, democratic countries have to support freedom of choice in order to actually be democratic.
I don't think you're trying to be rude or contrarian; I actually appreciate that you bring these viewpoints up. Parents do not always know what's best for their child, and even when they do that...
I don't think you're trying to be rude or contrarian; I actually appreciate that you bring these viewpoints up.
Parents do not always know what's best for their child, and even when they do that doesn't mean that they can be trusted to actually do that thing. I personally believe that that idea is bad for society and there are countless examples of child abuse to disprove it.
There happens to be plenty of precedent to say that children are entitled to a proper education, and that's the entire reason why it's illegal to withdraw a child from school without providing an alternative. There is no right for parents to choose to keep their children ignorant, but there is a right to an education, and parents blocking children from accessing that education is a violation of the child's rights.
And that right to education is one of the most fundamentally important rights there is. Education is what makes you aware of how the world works, and if you don't know how the world works it's just that much easier to be taken advantage of. Often that's precisely why parents bring their children out of school; they want to indoctrinate them into their religion and if they knew the truth then they will have a harder time doing that.
But we weren't talking about taking kids out of school to give them NO education, we were talking about them choosing home schooling over a typical public or private school education. Again...
There happens to be plenty of precedent to say that children are entitled to a proper education, and that's the entire reason why it's illegal to withdraw a child from school without providing an alternative. There is no right for parents to choose to keep their children ignorant, but there is a right to an education, and parents blocking children from accessing that education is a violation of the child's rights.
But we weren't talking about taking kids out of school to give them NO education, we were talking about them choosing home schooling over a typical public or private school education.
Parents do not always know what's best for their child, and even when they do that doesn't mean that they can be trusted to actually do that thing.
Again though, you're assuming that who knows better than a parent? The state? You? Me?
No, raising a child is the parent's responsibility and as long as they are not abusing them, they are free to raise them as they feel is appropriate. Most parents, especially those who chose home schooling, care very much about their kids lives and their education, and it would be irrational to assume that they are "bad" for choosing something that isn't as common.
On the other hand, it may be far superior to anything a child would learn in a regular school. Which would be worse - a kid who is bright but rarely gets attention from the teacher because he's in a crowded classroom with 35 other kids, several of whom have special needs but get no additional resource teacher (very common these days) - or a kid who is home schooled and his parents decide to take their kids on a sailing ship around the world while they study the actual places and cultures they visit? Which one do you think is getting a "proper" education?
School is good for many but honestly, many parents drop their kids off and think of it as little more than a free babysitting service while they go to work. Most of them never look at the curriculum and have very little idea what their kids learn at school unless they are in trouble and even then they wonder why the school is failing, not why they might be failing their kid. Home schoolers don't do that.
I don't know why you are arguing as if I'm against homeschooling. I have stated multiple times that that is not the case. I'm against homeschooling as an excuse to provide a subpar education or to...
I don't know why you are arguing as if I'm against homeschooling. I have stated multiple times that that is not the case. I'm against homeschooling as an excuse to provide a subpar education or to deliberately leave important parts out. That's what I consider to be abusive.
I think you are discussing a narrower portion of homeschooling (the “I don’t want my kid to learn about evolution because Fundamentalist Christianity” type) and considering it to be child abuse;...
I think you are discussing a narrower portion of homeschooling (the “I don’t want my kid to learn about evolution because Fundamentalist Christianity” type) and considering it to be child abuse; whereas @gowestyoungman is looking at homeschooling in a broader sense. Y’all are talking past each other A lil’ bit.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I agree, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with homeschooling. My partner is a teacher, and while we’re both big public education proponents, we...
Thanks for sharing your experience! I agree, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with homeschooling. My partner is a teacher, and while we’re both big public education proponents, we will likely homeschool our kids for at least a year, if simply because she’s entitled to a year of leave and I can work from anywhere so we can do home school abroad somewhere.
So a) I think it does open the door to these experiences that just aren’t available anywhere else and b) as others have mentioned I don’t think taking that option away is conducive to a free society.
The problem is, as you mentioned, while the highs can be really high, the lows are really, really low. And I’m not sure auditing at the scale required is a feasible option especially with a rise in popularity. Tying it to standardized testing is a possible option, or maybe it’s not a big enough problem to warrant further action, I’m not sure.
Education is also thoroughly local, so it’s possible I’m musing about a solved problem and this is already being implemented really well somewhere.
As one of the people making a more 'negative' comment down thread -- I agree with you that home schooling can be highly effective! I just think that there needs to be a hell of a lot more...
As one of the people making a more 'negative' comment down thread -- I agree with you that home schooling can be highly effective! I just think that there needs to be a hell of a lot more regulation than there is, to "catch" kids whose parents who haven't managed your 4 requirements.
The better conclusion to the horrors is that homeschooling regulation = not nearly enough in most states.
My thoughts on a start for regulation:
A non-related adult needs to have some sort of contact with the child occasionally to verify they're alive and not locked in a cage somewhere, covered in bruises, or otherwise clearly abused. An example might be proof of an annual visit to a pediatrician, and a few other similar things through the year.
A requirement to submit some sort of vague outline of what the child is learning a few times a year. Evidence that there's some sort of planning involved. That outline would also be used for...
Academic testing (not necessarily every year in elementary, but definitely every year for high school) to make sure the kid is getting a reasonable education -- there do need to be waivers here for students with disabilities / medical issues / etc, where success wouldn't be expected in a school. If none of those apply and the kid is failing by a wide margin, there needs to be a mechanism to either require changes from the parents or trigger Child Protective Services involvement for educational neglect, and then CPS could have the authority to require the child to enroll in school.
While this is sorely needed for all kids home schooled or public schooled, the horrors of Canadian residential schools have taught us that it is very easy to cover up abuse by determined monsters...
While this is sorely needed for all kids home schooled or public schooled, the horrors of Canadian residential schools have taught us that it is very easy to cover up abuse by determined monsters with good social engineering skills.
curriculum
Free for downloading anywhere online, and also those horrible Christian curriculum people sell lots of these for money
Academic testing (not necessarily every year in elementary, but definitely every year for high school) to make sure the kid is getting a reasonable education -- there do need to be waivers here for students with disabilities / medical issues / etc, where success wouldn't be expected in a school. If none of those apply and the kid is failing by a wide margin, there needs to be a mechanism to either require changes from the parents or trigger Child Protective Services involvement for educational neglect, and then CPS could have the authority to require the child to enroll in school.
And this is exactly the thing the horrible Christian legal defense people named in the article exist to resist.
Source, I am a Christian homeschooling parent and from the first year, I've been to their conferences and "trade shows" aplenty and been in lots of those circles. The legal defense fund people are basically grifters at worst and fear monger money changers at best. It's a good idea to check up on kids, public and home schooled, but public teaching unions will resist it as hard as home schoolers.
It all comes down to a breakdown of trust. If the premise is "we don't believe you are doing a good job and we're willing to threaten job loss / removal of children from your home", the conversation is a non-starter.
I know. There are absolutely reasons this sort of legislation is infeasible in our current political climate in the US, particularly in congress. I just think it's a travesty that that's the case....
I know. There are absolutely reasons this sort of legislation is infeasible in our current political climate in the US, particularly in congress. I just think it's a travesty that that's the case. This comment was more me brainstorming policy that would allow children who benefit from homeschooling to continue with minimal burden, while not sacrificing other children to their shitty parents.
Requiring a curriculum is mostly just to determine what testing is needed to benchmark progress, and make sure that the parents aren't doing nothing. I'm aware there is lots of free stuff on line. I'm not sure if you're familiar with NYS homeschooling law, but they have a required IHIP that is the sort of thing I'm thinking about.
It's a good idea to check up on kids, public and home schooled, but public teaching unions will resist it as hard as home schoolers.
I don't see why they would? I've seen teachers complaining on reddit about getting homeschool neglected kids dropped in their classroom and needing serious remediation.
This definitely happens in our Canadian province. There are well trained and experienced supervisors who visit each home several times a year to check on student training and to make sure that the...
A non-related adult needs to have some sort of contact with the child occasionally to verify they're alive and not locked in a cage somewhere, covered in bruises, or otherwise clearly abused. An example might be proof of an annual visit to a pediatrician, and a few other similar things through the year.
A requirement to submit some sort of vague outline of what the child is learning a few times a year. Evidence that there's some sort of planning involved. That outline would also be used for...
This definitely happens in our Canadian province. There are well trained and experienced supervisors who visit each home several times a year to check on student training and to make sure that the provincial education curriculum is being followed.
Although I have to say I find your assumption that just because a kid is home schooled one might assume they are more likely to be abused. Being home schooled takes a heck of a lot of time and energy commitment on the part of the parent, and in my experience (as a former principal) home schooling parents care much MORE than the average parent who would rather the school take care of all the work. Honestly I dont ever recall a story about a home schooler being abused but we definitely had some abused kids in our school.
I didn't say that - - assuming good faith here that you misunderstood me, I was more so saying it's necessary because the supervision is "built in" with public schools. Almost all teachers in the...
Although I have to say I find your assumption that just because a kid is home schooled one might assume they are more likely to be abused.
I didn't say that - - assuming good faith here that you misunderstood me, I was more so saying it's necessary because the supervision is "built in" with public schools. Almost all teachers in the US are legally required to report child abuse, and they see the child up to 180 times a year. Homeschooled students lack the benefits of that oversight.
It seems like having 10 homeschooled kids in the same grade in high school is quite a lot. Was it a big school? Is there something about where you grew up that made it particularly popular?
It seems like having 10 homeschooled kids in the same grade in high school is quite a lot. Was it a big school? Is there something about where you grew up that made it particularly popular?
I attended public school, and I was a notably weird kid (excessively shy, excessively studious, some pretty peculiar social behaviors and interests). Had I been homeschooled, my idiosyncrasies...
I attended public school, and I was a notably weird kid (excessively shy, excessively studious, some pretty peculiar social behaviors and interests). Had I been homeschooled, my idiosyncrasies would no doubt have been attributed to that, rather than to my personality.
Up until the 7th grade (when I got into a gifted program), the quality of education I received was very poor. I grew up in a low-income neighborhood, which meant that my schools were understaffed and had few resources. As an additional complication, it was a neighborhood with a very high rate of immigration from many different countries, and most of my teachers were monolingual. I spent most of my time in the classroom reading, drawing, and writing stories, which my teachers permitted because I otherwise made good grades and because they just had too much on their plates helping the kids who needed the help.
My dad, however, was worried about the quality of education I was receiving and wanted to homeschool me, but I was scared I wouldn't have the self-control to actually do the work, so I opted to stay in regular school. Education-wise, I'm not sure if that was the right call or not but, honestly, I suspect it didn't actually matter; either way, I was probably going to spend most of my time doing the things I wanted to do and rushing through the things I didn't want to do.
As for socializing, I don't think it made much meaningful difference; I was shy and did not socialize at school anyway. Most of my social activity came after school, when I went to Girl Scouts and visited friends. I did not become social at school until high school (and I am very grateful that I attended regular school for that).
Meanwhile, my partner attended a very reputable and expensive private school (which he received a scholarship to attend). He had such a bad time with it that he vowed that if we ever had children, they would be homeschooled. On paper, the quality of education he received was better than mine; but, in practice, he has very little memory of the things he supposedly learned, and he didn't get the downtime I had to practice hobbies and interests. I have many fond memories of school, and he very much does not.
Thank you for your "insider" insight Exactly. There are plenty of public school educated children whose parents abused them and hit them and starved them and deprived them of autonomy or real...
Thank you for your "insider" insight
. A lot of articles and experiences I read about focus heavily on how parents mistreated/sheltered/lied to their children
Exactly. There are plenty of public school educated children whose parents abused them and hit them and starved them and deprived them of autonomy or real education. Abusive parents are abusive, whether home educated or not, whether religious or not.
For every one home schooled weird kid I could point to 5 or more public schooled weird kid.
Abusive parents are abusive sure, but homeschooled students are unusual by having minimal access to mandated reporters (teachers, principals, school nurses, etc) who can find that abuse. There...
Abusive parents are abusive sure, but homeschooled students are unusual by having minimal access to mandated reporters (teachers, principals, school nurses, etc) who can find that abuse.
There were reports that removals of children and child abuse convictions declined during the pandemic. That was not because actual child abuse went down, but because there were fewer adults around the children to catch it.
I seem to be seeing more and more people talking up about this and how upset they are about the things they were taught growing up. And it’s understandable; I can only imagine what it’s like to...
I seem to be seeing more and more people talking up about this and how upset they are about the things they were taught growing up. And it’s understandable; I can only imagine what it’s like to grow up and become independent and realize that your parents were not only lying to you about the world, but were doing everything they could to isolate you from people who could prove them wrong. I remember when I was growing up listening to my schoolmates talking about how they learned that Santa Claus wasn’t real and thinking I was fortunate that my parents didn’t subscribe to that tradition.
Many people cite reading Educated as a source that inspired them to break away from homeschooling these days. It’s a pretty good read regardless of if you were raised that way or not.
I fully agree with you on homeschooling and religion I kind of wish I had more of this. The amount Santa Claus has been commercialized is problematic, but I wish I had grown up learning more about...
I fully agree with you on homeschooling and religion
I remember when I was growing up listening to my schoolmates talking about how they learned that Santa Claus wasn’t real and thinking I was fortunate that my parents didn’t subscribe to that tradition.
I kind of wish I had more of this. The amount Santa Claus has been commercialized is problematic, but I wish I had grown up learning more about folklore. We only have snippets of it where I live, and I'm very jealous of the Nordic, Gaelic, and Celtic folklore and magical creatures. I think it's a fun connection to the history of where you live, encourages wonder in nature (as many of these creature live amongst the forests and marshes), and lets kids learn to be skeptical of everything they heard growing up. I realize this is off topic, but I have a soft spot for "mythical" creatures, even Santa Claus.
There is a lot of folklore among some communities that have deep roots where they are. Native American communities obviously do, but you'll find a decent amount around Appalachia and other places...
There is a lot of folklore among some communities that have deep roots where they are. Native American communities obviously do, but you'll find a decent amount around Appalachia and other places as well.
Totally! I just know some of the Celtic and Nordic ones because that's my own family history. I'd love to learn more of the local folklore, and have learned a little from our local natural history...
Totally! I just know some of the Celtic and Nordic ones because that's my own family history. I'd love to learn more of the local folklore, and have learned a little from our local natural history museum, but am not always sure where to start. I learned about the Watchers from a friend who had come across a child's barefoot prints in a light dusting of snow on his morning run up in the foothills of Big Sur. They started and ended abruptly, were seen at 6am, and just after the snow stopped. It was interesting to hear all the variations on the myth people knew when he brought it up. I know that's an odd fluke, but just fun interjections of folklore into every day life.
You're right though, I should seek it out more. I think I'll pop down and see if I can find some books on Ohlone or Muwekma folklore this afternoon!
In my personal experience, believing in Santa Claus and similarly inconsequential magical entities was entirely harmless. Learning Santa Claus did not exist was not at all traumatic for me, it was...
In my personal experience, believing in Santa Claus and similarly inconsequential magical entities was entirely harmless. Learning Santa Claus did not exist was not at all traumatic for me, it was a simple realization that amused me with my own childhood brain and the wholesome laughs my parents had at my expense. It's all in good fun.
Some time ago a parent posted on Reddit how he made his kids believe their dinosaur action figures were coming to life during the night. Playing with kids' magical thinking can be entertaining and benign. It's a good way to create wonderful memories!
I am a second-generation atheist, so my parents never tried to limit my education. They fostered an interest in science, did not push Santa Claus, etc. However, they were both raised in religious...
I am a second-generation atheist, so my parents never tried to limit my education. They fostered an interest in science, did not push Santa Claus, etc.
However, they were both raised in religious households and eventually came to doubt all the things their parents had taught them. My dad, in particular, thought that children actually should grow up questioning their parents because it gives them practice questioning authority figures in general. As such, he made a point of regularly lying to me in small ways so that I would learn to doubt him. The two lies I remember best: eating french fries gives you freckles, and nobody know why fans spin — it's one of the universe's great mysteries.
On the other hand, he was so worried about unduly influencing me that he kept many of his thoughts and beliefs (for example, his atheism) a secret from me, and my parents in no way shielded me from religion (their parents took me to religious services very frequently, for example). As a consequence, I actually went through the process of becoming an atheist all on my own, despite technically growing up in an atheist household.
A lot of this rings true for someone who was homeschooled from 4th grade through high school. I wasn't in as restrictive an environment as the couple in the articles, as well as being raised...
A lot of this rings true for someone who was homeschooled from 4th grade through high school. I wasn't in as restrictive an environment as the couple in the articles, as well as being raised Catholic.
“It’s specifically a system that is set up to hide the abuse, to make them invisible, to strip them of any capability of getting help. And not just in a physical way,” Christina said. “At some point, you become so mentally imprisoned you don’t even realize you need help.”
This is the part that resonated the most with me. I've talked about my personal issues on this site before, so I won't rehash them, but this is something I had kinda forgetten. Its such a hard thing to explain how total the control is. Even when you get glimpses of the happier outside world, the dogma that the World™ is evil and no one but them can be trusted is so aggresively pushed that your unlikely to seek help.
Another former homeschooler here, I couldn't agree more. I've just spent the last month working through newly-identified trauma that I realised came from growing up in almost complete isolation...
Another former homeschooler here, I couldn't agree more.
I've just spent the last month working through newly-identified trauma that I realised came from growing up in almost complete isolation with my parents (into my early 20s).
Even without accounting for corporal punishment, just the inescapable exposure alone to parental co-dependency and their neuroses/paranoia and need for obsessive control without any outside forces to intervene is abusive in such painfully subtle ways.
I might even say it is on par with being part of a cult, if a singular household could be considered one. Entering the "real" world later as a working adult isn't a matter of acclimating, it's a matter of surviving the sheer shock of how much you lost and fell behind on. Whether educationally or socially, key knowledge and experiences you never had as a child or skills you just never developed, and to know it was all because of these individuals who chose to exercise total power over your life for their favourite noble cause.
Anyway, wishing you well, fellow survivor, and many thanks to OP for sharing the article. I'm glad to have read it.
Incidentally, I tried to read Educated before some years ago but couldn't get into it. But this makes me want to try again, I think it could help me a lot.
From the pastor's parenting seminar: I had to manually copy that text from an image, and it actually made me feel sick. That’s so diametrically opposed to my own parenting style it’s impossible to...
From the pastor's parenting seminar:
The use of the rod is for breaking the child's will. One way to tell this has happened is to see if they can look you in the eyes after being disciplined and ask for forgiveness.
I had to manually copy that text from an image, and it actually made me feel sick. That’s so diametrically opposed to my own parenting style it’s impossible to fathom willfully treating your child like an object to be broken.
I've actually read through Michael and Debbie Pearl's book years ago while digging into information on the Duggar family. It's horrifying as it sounds. I made a comment earlier about children not...
I've actually read through Michael and Debbie Pearl's book years ago while digging into information on the Duggar family. It's horrifying as it sounds. I made a comment earlier about children not being their parent's property, but this whole viewpoint seems to come from a perspective that children are ultimately the slaves of their parents.
I've been following this sort of issue for a long time. I stumbled on Reddit's homeschoolrecovery subreddit a long time ago, and it really informed my view on home schooling. There are so many...
I've been following this sort of issue for a long time. I stumbled on Reddit's homeschoolrecovery subreddit a long time ago, and it really informed my view on home schooling. There are so many children that have been abused through educational neglect.
It's something that goes beyond just Christian fundementalists as well, though they're a majority of the problem. From what I've seen, the type of unschooling where you leave your kid alone to learn what they want (with no guidance, structure or assistance) is abuse as well. And then there are parents who start with good intentions and even do well at first, but homeschooling is a ton of work, and actually only gets more complex as the content covered gets more complex and builds on previous content. If a parent
And even in the states with "good" regulation (New York -- which requires education plans, testing, hours requirements), it's often not very enforceable. In New York, the strongest thing they can do is issue a notice of non-compliance and start requiring home visits. That takes a lot of documentation by the local school district , and then that would have to be followed up by either the truancy court, or CPS... It's still much better than nothing, because it's at least someone who is aware that the child exists, but it leaves a lot of room for misbehavior.
And that's the "good" example. There are states where it's legal to pull your kid out of school to "homeschool", and not even inform the state or local school district. That means by default, there is 0 oversight. I understand that children aren't "creatures of the state" (to quote the legal ruling that first overruled a law requiring students to attend public school) and do think parents should have the right to educate their kids at home, but they're not property of their parents either -- children have their own independent right to learn that shouldn't be ignored..
I was a precocious and fiercely curious child, and I wish that I had been given more freedom by my family and teachers in steering my own education. At home, I was coding (since elementary school)...
children have their own independent right to learn that shouldn't be ignored..
I was a precocious and fiercely curious child, and I wish that I had been given more freedom by my family and teachers in steering my own education. At home, I was coding (since elementary school) and devouring books on every subject. And school was where I went to sit and be bored and be surrounded by other bored children.
But my mom had great faith in "The System". (ha, ha)
If/when I have kids, I want to try a hybrid school/homeschool approach where they spend 3 or 4 days a week in a traditional school setting, and the remaining days pursuing their own interests and projects — provided that my kids propose self-study plans and are willing to have a guide or tutor check on their self-studies. I guess the challenge lies in finding a school that could support and accommodate such a plan.
Sounds like you're looking for a more homeschool co-op set up. And yeah, I attended public school growing up and can remember sitting through a lesson on something I had already mastered and being...
Sounds like you're looking for a more homeschool co-op set up. And yeah, I attended public school growing up and can remember sitting through a lesson on something I had already mastered and being bored out of my mind.
The advice I would give to any parent planning to home school would be that you need to have regular check ins that
In early grades, that the bases are covered-- that your kid isn't missing some foundation that they'll need later. If your kid doesn't learn to read quickly, or struggles with early understanding of concepts like place value or what a fraction is, they're going to be in deep trouble very quickly. In a good school, when a kid doesn't "get it" teachers have training (or experience from having seen the same problem before) on how to identify the deficit and correct it. And that is an underrated skill that takes experience to pick up/
The child is getting enough regular social interaction with the same people (including other children) that they can develop the social skills to function publicly, and avoid developing phobias because of a lack of experience.
that the kid is getting enough structure in picking what to learn, when to learn it, and in the process of learning that the burden doesn't overwhelm them -- time management, the executive function to break down a goal into tasks, self-discipline. Those are all skills that need to be scaffolded over time and especially for elementary and middle school, a lot of hand holding is necessary. And then, there are some people who just genuinely aren't suited to self-directed work. Even as an adult, I struggle with time management and breaking down my projects for work -- I can't imagine if I'd had to do it as a kid.
There is a reason many poorly homeschooled students struggle with math especially -- that's hard to teach yourself without someone to explain it to you, and more practice than most people want to do instinctively. A surprising number of adults also don't have the conceptual understanding of mathematics, even for late elementary math, necessary to know why math algorithms work. And once you get to Algebra? A tiny minority. It takes a lot of skill to teach even middle school math well.
Done right, what you're talking about could lead to an amazing education. The devil's in the details though, so you have to keep self evaluating whether what you are doing is working.
Unschooling isn’t supposed to be abandoning your children in the hopes that they’ll learn everything they need to. That is child abuse, sure. You’re supposed to be guiding them, providing them...
Unschooling isn’t supposed to be abandoning your children in the hopes that they’ll learn everything they need to. That is child abuse, sure. You’re supposed to be guiding them, providing them with both resources and goals, and helping them when they are having trouble.
Of course, I’m not surprised that people take advantage of the idea as an excuse to do terrible things.
At a time when home education was still a fringe phenomenon, the Bealls had grown up in the most powerful and ideologically committed faction of the modern home-schooling movement. That movement, led by deeply conservative Christians, saw home schooling as a way of life — a conscious rejection of contemporary ideas about biology, history, gender equality and the role of religion in American government.
Christina and Aaron were supposed to advance the banner of that movement, instilling its codes in their children through the same forms of corporal punishment once inflicted upon them. Yet instead, along with many others of their age and upbringing, they had walked away.
I'm someone who was relentlessly bullied in school and would have greatly benefitted from at least some years of homeschooling or I guess a private tutor, not my parents. Homeschooling is not...
I'm someone who was relentlessly bullied in school and would have greatly benefitted from at least some years of homeschooling or I guess a private tutor, not my parents. Homeschooling is not possible in Germany. Since I didn't have my autism diagnosis until I was 10, and my parents knew something was different with me but not what, I was enrolled in a special needs school. It was horrible. The education was far slower than what was good for me, and the climate on the schoolyard was an absolute disaster. I'm glad I got out of there after a year.
I think we need to have options for private tutoring, and provide proper education to everyone according to their needs. When I hear people say it's not the state's job to provide an education, it is all within "parental rights" to do as they please, I get really scared. Children are people, not property. If what's good for a child is opposed to whatever whim their parents have, the child should still get it. If you make the discussion about a child's education all about what their parents or teachers want or think, you're doing it wrong.
Cost is usually the reason. Public school is free. Even the most modest private religious school will probably be $10K+ per student, per year since they do not receive any public funding. If you...
Cost is usually the reason. Public school is free. Even the most modest private religious school will probably be $10K+ per student, per year since they do not receive any public funding. If you have 2 or 3 kids that cost becomes extreme in a hurry.
True. Depending on the jurisdiction. In our province, religious schools are highly supported, receive most of the same funding as public schools and parents still have to pay some fees, but there...
True. Depending on the jurisdiction.
In our province, religious schools are highly supported, receive most of the same funding as public schools and parents still have to pay some fees, but there were also bursaries and generous donors (often grandparents) who would pay those for others, so we had still had single moms with two kids who could still attend.
I want to draw attention to a 4-part documentary titled 'Shiny Happy People' that was just released last week. The documentary (like this article) focuses on the Duggar family of '19 Kids and...
I want to draw attention to a 4-part documentary titled 'Shiny Happy People' that was just released last week. The documentary (like this article) focuses on the Duggar family of '19 Kids and Counting' fame, and the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) Christian fundamentalist organization and their homeschooling curriculum Advanced Training Institute. It was a very eye-opening doc, to say the least!
I guess this is the "opposing" view - but I actually really enjoyed my time being homeschooled and looking back it is one of the best things that happened in my life. I'm in my 30's now and have thought about this topic quite a bit over the years - especially as homeschooling has grown in popularity and grown in infamy.
I was homeschooled from Grades 1-8 (although did attend public school in grades 2 and 5) and then went to public high school. A lot of articles and experiences I read about focus heavily on how parents mistreated/sheltered/lied to their children through the homeschooling experience and then the conclusions follow from there. I do not want to take anything away from those stories, as they are real and the trauma is there, however I do not agree with the conclusion that often follows: homeschooling = bad.
When I read and hear about these stories the common denominator is almost always parents who are overly sheltering their children - perhaps knowingly or unintentionally. Either way - the root of problem is not the homeschooling, but rather the parents approach to the child’s upbringing. In these cases homeschooling can cause serious damage to the child’s upbringing, but at its core it is not THE thing that caused the damage. For that you have to go pack and point the finger at the parents.
Homeschooling is something that can can be absolutely amazing or absolutely terrible for the child. It comes down to how much the parents are going to invest into the process and reasons for homeschooling the child. If parents choose to homeschool to protect their child, I think that is the wrong decision (assuming the child is a “normal” child. Perhaps in cases where a child has extreme anxiety homeschooling may be a solution to protect). Rather, if a parent chooses to homeschool to accelerate and diversity their child’s learning - it can be an exceptional thing.
The latter requires some serious effort from the parents. They need to accomplish the following:
My final point is one that I think not many people who are critical of homeschooling themselves think about. That point is confirmation bias. Everyone knows the stereotype of the “homeschooled kid being a weirdo”. My assertion is that that stereotype is a result of confirmation bias. My anecdotal evidence for that is when I was homeschooled leading up to public high school I was in a social group of around 40-50 local homeschooled kids (across grades 1-8), many of which ended up attending the same public high school. When these kids went to public school, some were immediately “the homeschooled kid” and many others the general public school had no idea. I was of average social standing in high school but whenever I would mention I was homeschooled to people who didn’t know they would remark something like “what?! How can that be - you are so normal”, and then I could name 10 other people in our grade that were also homeschooled whom everyone considered “normal”, while there would be 2 or 3 that were the “weird homeschooled kids”. I firmly believe that if someone is “normal” or “popular” - no one questions where they were raised or what school they went to. If someone is “weird”, then anything in their upbringing that was outside the norm will become the reason they are “weird”. As soon as the class learns the anti-social “weird” kid was homeschooled, then that becomes their identity. This leads to confirmation bias of homeschooled = weird/anti-social. There are plenty of “weird” kids who went to public school their whole life - they will often get some other branding from the general public.
Anyhow - that was a big an essay. Hopefully that makes some semblance of sense. Happy to answer any questions on my experience/thoughts on homeschooling.
You have no idea how much I agree with your points. I mentioned this in my other comment, but these examples are of a classic archetype; of people taking advantage of good things in order to do bad things.
Your examples in point number four are the main reasons why in spite of these bad actors, I'm still (in theory) in favor of homeschooling. At it's best, it's giving your kid access to a personalized, in-depth education that would otherwise cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. When I was still in grade school, I was disappointed with a lot of my classes because of how slow they went. I wanted to learn more! I went to gifted programs and honors/AP classes, but for the most part most of those were the same classes just taught "harder"; still learning the same things but simply given more work. I almost didn't pass highschool because the state I went in required passing English I, but English I Honors bored me to tears - it didn't matter that I took much more advanced English and Literature classes and passed those with flying colors. I just imagine how many more topics I could have covered if I weren't doing so much busywork all the time.
But in real terms, the problem with homeschooling is that there aren't people making sure your requirements are being met. Especially number 4. Let's be frank; If someone is taking their kid out of school because they don't want them to learn something, that is child abuse. There is no way that is healthy or conductive to a stable well-adjusted individual. So I understand people who want to outlaw the practice.
I live in a country where public school parents really resist testing of their children as well so this is a problem that can happen in any setting.
Kids in my local public grade 5/6 were reviewing the alphabet this year. Absolutely good parents should provide the best education they can afford, whether that's public or home or distance or e-learning.
Absolutely not. Im a former teacher and school principal. In our B.Ed. training our profs made it clear that teachers are 'in loco parentis', that is, they stand in the place of the parent. It is not the state's responsibility to teach children, that is first and foremost the parent's job. Its just common that most parents dont want to, or dont have the skills or the time to do it, so they give it over to the state to do it. But it's still their choice and if they choose to school their child, it's actually their obligation and right.
Please keep in mind that Tildes has a lot of users from all over the world — there’s kind of an American assumption built into your comment.
Also, I think a statement like
reads far more like a statement on immorality than on legality.
Good point about Tildes being worldwide.
For the record, Im Canadian, but close enough :)
I think you have mischaracterized what it was that I had to say. I am not against the concept of homeschooling; as I said in the start of that comment that I am all for it, at least in theory. Parents can and should take their children out of public schools if they have a means of providing a superior education. I'm not even arguing against religious schooling, as much as I typically dislike organized religion.
The thing I am very much against is preventing a child from getting a good education because they don't want them to learn about something. It's unethical, immoral, unhealthy for the child, and unhealthy for society as a whole, which has a stake in ensuring that its constituents are well educated and informed. I really can't describe it as anything except abusive considering there is practically zero costs involved to send a child to public schools and they only require what is generally considered to be the absolute minimum needed to function in society.
If there is any legal framework which explicitly allows for parents to give children an inferior education, than it is in everyone's best interests to eliminate that framework.
But in saying that you are making that judgment that you know what is best for the child, and that to not be taught something in particular is unethical, immoral, unhealthy or inferior and that you know what a 'good education' is moreso than a parent. There are several things that some parents, especially religious parents would feel the opposite about and thats why they have the right to choose what is best for their child. Im not trying to be rude, what Im saying is its not your call nor mine to make, its the parents call and the state cant override that, otherwise we'd have an authoritarian government and if anything, democratic countries have to support freedom of choice in order to actually be democratic.
I don't think you're trying to be rude or contrarian; I actually appreciate that you bring these viewpoints up.
Parents do not always know what's best for their child, and even when they do that doesn't mean that they can be trusted to actually do that thing. I personally believe that that idea is bad for society and there are countless examples of child abuse to disprove it.
There happens to be plenty of precedent to say that children are entitled to a proper education, and that's the entire reason why it's illegal to withdraw a child from school without providing an alternative. There is no right for parents to choose to keep their children ignorant, but there is a right to an education, and parents blocking children from accessing that education is a violation of the child's rights.
And that right to education is one of the most fundamentally important rights there is. Education is what makes you aware of how the world works, and if you don't know how the world works it's just that much easier to be taken advantage of. Often that's precisely why parents bring their children out of school; they want to indoctrinate them into their religion and if they knew the truth then they will have a harder time doing that.
But we weren't talking about taking kids out of school to give them NO education, we were talking about them choosing home schooling over a typical public or private school education.
Again though, you're assuming that who knows better than a parent? The state? You? Me?
No, raising a child is the parent's responsibility and as long as they are not abusing them, they are free to raise them as they feel is appropriate. Most parents, especially those who chose home schooling, care very much about their kids lives and their education, and it would be irrational to assume that they are "bad" for choosing something that isn't as common.
On the other hand, it may be far superior to anything a child would learn in a regular school. Which would be worse - a kid who is bright but rarely gets attention from the teacher because he's in a crowded classroom with 35 other kids, several of whom have special needs but get no additional resource teacher (very common these days) - or a kid who is home schooled and his parents decide to take their kids on a sailing ship around the world while they study the actual places and cultures they visit? Which one do you think is getting a "proper" education?
School is good for many but honestly, many parents drop their kids off and think of it as little more than a free babysitting service while they go to work. Most of them never look at the curriculum and have very little idea what their kids learn at school unless they are in trouble and even then they wonder why the school is failing, not why they might be failing their kid. Home schoolers don't do that.
I don't know why you are arguing as if I'm against homeschooling. I have stated multiple times that that is not the case. I'm against homeschooling as an excuse to provide a subpar education or to deliberately leave important parts out. That's what I consider to be abusive.
I think you are discussing a narrower portion of homeschooling (the “I don’t want my kid to learn about evolution because Fundamentalist Christianity” type) and considering it to be child abuse; whereas @gowestyoungman is looking at homeschooling in a broader sense. Y’all are talking past each other A lil’ bit.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I agree, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with homeschooling. My partner is a teacher, and while we’re both big public education proponents, we will likely homeschool our kids for at least a year, if simply because she’s entitled to a year of leave and I can work from anywhere so we can do home school abroad somewhere.
So a) I think it does open the door to these experiences that just aren’t available anywhere else and b) as others have mentioned I don’t think taking that option away is conducive to a free society.
The problem is, as you mentioned, while the highs can be really high, the lows are really, really low. And I’m not sure auditing at the scale required is a feasible option especially with a rise in popularity. Tying it to standardized testing is a possible option, or maybe it’s not a big enough problem to warrant further action, I’m not sure.
Education is also thoroughly local, so it’s possible I’m musing about a solved problem and this is already being implemented really well somewhere.
As one of the people making a more 'negative' comment down thread -- I agree with you that home schooling can be highly effective! I just think that there needs to be a hell of a lot more regulation than there is, to "catch" kids whose parents who haven't managed your 4 requirements.
The better conclusion to the horrors is that homeschooling regulation = not nearly enough in most states.
My thoughts on a start for regulation:
A non-related adult needs to have some sort of contact with the child occasionally to verify they're alive and not locked in a cage somewhere, covered in bruises, or otherwise clearly abused. An example might be proof of an annual visit to a pediatrician, and a few other similar things through the year.
A requirement to submit some sort of vague outline of what the child is learning a few times a year. Evidence that there's some sort of planning involved. That outline would also be used for...
Academic testing (not necessarily every year in elementary, but definitely every year for high school) to make sure the kid is getting a reasonable education -- there do need to be waivers here for students with disabilities / medical issues / etc, where success wouldn't be expected in a school. If none of those apply and the kid is failing by a wide margin, there needs to be a mechanism to either require changes from the parents or trigger Child Protective Services involvement for educational neglect, and then CPS could have the authority to require the child to enroll in school.
Does any of that sound unreasonable to you?
While this is sorely needed for all kids home schooled or public schooled, the horrors of Canadian residential schools have taught us that it is very easy to cover up abuse by determined monsters with good social engineering skills.
Free for downloading anywhere online, and also those horrible Christian curriculum people sell lots of these for money
And this is exactly the thing the horrible Christian legal defense people named in the article exist to resist.
Source, I am a Christian homeschooling parent and from the first year, I've been to their conferences and "trade shows" aplenty and been in lots of those circles. The legal defense fund people are basically grifters at worst and fear monger money changers at best. It's a good idea to check up on kids, public and home schooled, but public teaching unions will resist it as hard as home schoolers.
It all comes down to a breakdown of trust. If the premise is "we don't believe you are doing a good job and we're willing to threaten job loss / removal of children from your home", the conversation is a non-starter.
I know. There are absolutely reasons this sort of legislation is infeasible in our current political climate in the US, particularly in congress. I just think it's a travesty that that's the case. This comment was more me brainstorming policy that would allow children who benefit from homeschooling to continue with minimal burden, while not sacrificing other children to their shitty parents.
Requiring a curriculum is mostly just to determine what testing is needed to benchmark progress, and make sure that the parents aren't doing nothing. I'm aware there is lots of free stuff on line. I'm not sure if you're familiar with NYS homeschooling law, but they have a required IHIP that is the sort of thing I'm thinking about.
I don't see why they would? I've seen teachers complaining on reddit about getting homeschool neglected kids dropped in their classroom and needing serious remediation.
This definitely happens in our Canadian province. There are well trained and experienced supervisors who visit each home several times a year to check on student training and to make sure that the provincial education curriculum is being followed.
Although I have to say I find your assumption that just because a kid is home schooled one might assume they are more likely to be abused. Being home schooled takes a heck of a lot of time and energy commitment on the part of the parent, and in my experience (as a former principal) home schooling parents care much MORE than the average parent who would rather the school take care of all the work. Honestly I dont ever recall a story about a home schooler being abused but we definitely had some abused kids in our school.
I didn't say that - - assuming good faith here that you misunderstood me, I was more so saying it's necessary because the supervision is "built in" with public schools. Almost all teachers in the US are legally required to report child abuse, and they see the child up to 180 times a year. Homeschooled students lack the benefits of that oversight.
It seems like having 10 homeschooled kids in the same grade in high school is quite a lot. Was it a big school? Is there something about where you grew up that made it particularly popular?
Both were true. We had probably ~250 students per grade and I also grew up in a region with a very large homeschool population.
I attended public school, and I was a notably weird kid (excessively shy, excessively studious, some pretty peculiar social behaviors and interests). Had I been homeschooled, my idiosyncrasies would no doubt have been attributed to that, rather than to my personality.
Up until the 7th grade (when I got into a gifted program), the quality of education I received was very poor. I grew up in a low-income neighborhood, which meant that my schools were understaffed and had few resources. As an additional complication, it was a neighborhood with a very high rate of immigration from many different countries, and most of my teachers were monolingual. I spent most of my time in the classroom reading, drawing, and writing stories, which my teachers permitted because I otherwise made good grades and because they just had too much on their plates helping the kids who needed the help.
My dad, however, was worried about the quality of education I was receiving and wanted to homeschool me, but I was scared I wouldn't have the self-control to actually do the work, so I opted to stay in regular school. Education-wise, I'm not sure if that was the right call or not but, honestly, I suspect it didn't actually matter; either way, I was probably going to spend most of my time doing the things I wanted to do and rushing through the things I didn't want to do.
As for socializing, I don't think it made much meaningful difference; I was shy and did not socialize at school anyway. Most of my social activity came after school, when I went to Girl Scouts and visited friends. I did not become social at school until high school (and I am very grateful that I attended regular school for that).
Meanwhile, my partner attended a very reputable and expensive private school (which he received a scholarship to attend). He had such a bad time with it that he vowed that if we ever had children, they would be homeschooled. On paper, the quality of education he received was better than mine; but, in practice, he has very little memory of the things he supposedly learned, and he didn't get the downtime I had to practice hobbies and interests. I have many fond memories of school, and he very much does not.
Thank you for your "insider" insight
Exactly. There are plenty of public school educated children whose parents abused them and hit them and starved them and deprived them of autonomy or real education. Abusive parents are abusive, whether home educated or not, whether religious or not.
For every one home schooled weird kid I could point to 5 or more public schooled weird kid.
Abusive parents are abusive sure, but homeschooled students are unusual by having minimal access to mandated reporters (teachers, principals, school nurses, etc) who can find that abuse.
There were reports that removals of children and child abuse convictions declined during the pandemic. That was not because actual child abuse went down, but because there were fewer adults around the children to catch it.
I seem to be seeing more and more people talking up about this and how upset they are about the things they were taught growing up. And it’s understandable; I can only imagine what it’s like to grow up and become independent and realize that your parents were not only lying to you about the world, but were doing everything they could to isolate you from people who could prove them wrong. I remember when I was growing up listening to my schoolmates talking about how they learned that Santa Claus wasn’t real and thinking I was fortunate that my parents didn’t subscribe to that tradition.
Many people cite reading Educated as a source that inspired them to break away from homeschooling these days. It’s a pretty good read regardless of if you were raised that way or not.
I fully agree with you on homeschooling and religion
I kind of wish I had more of this. The amount Santa Claus has been commercialized is problematic, but I wish I had grown up learning more about folklore. We only have snippets of it where I live, and I'm very jealous of the Nordic, Gaelic, and Celtic folklore and magical creatures. I think it's a fun connection to the history of where you live, encourages wonder in nature (as many of these creature live amongst the forests and marshes), and lets kids learn to be skeptical of everything they heard growing up. I realize this is off topic, but I have a soft spot for "mythical" creatures, even Santa Claus.
There is a lot of folklore among some communities that have deep roots where they are. Native American communities obviously do, but you'll find a decent amount around Appalachia and other places as well.
Totally! I just know some of the Celtic and Nordic ones because that's my own family history. I'd love to learn more of the local folklore, and have learned a little from our local natural history museum, but am not always sure where to start. I learned about the Watchers from a friend who had come across a child's barefoot prints in a light dusting of snow on his morning run up in the foothills of Big Sur. They started and ended abruptly, were seen at 6am, and just after the snow stopped. It was interesting to hear all the variations on the myth people knew when he brought it up. I know that's an odd fluke, but just fun interjections of folklore into every day life.
You're right though, I should seek it out more. I think I'll pop down and see if I can find some books on Ohlone or Muwekma folklore this afternoon!
In my personal experience, believing in Santa Claus and similarly inconsequential magical entities was entirely harmless. Learning Santa Claus did not exist was not at all traumatic for me, it was a simple realization that amused me with my own childhood brain and the wholesome laughs my parents had at my expense. It's all in good fun.
Some time ago a parent posted on Reddit how he made his kids believe their dinosaur action figures were coming to life during the night. Playing with kids' magical thinking can be entertaining and benign. It's a good way to create wonderful memories!
I am a second-generation atheist, so my parents never tried to limit my education. They fostered an interest in science, did not push Santa Claus, etc.
However, they were both raised in religious households and eventually came to doubt all the things their parents had taught them. My dad, in particular, thought that children actually should grow up questioning their parents because it gives them practice questioning authority figures in general. As such, he made a point of regularly lying to me in small ways so that I would learn to doubt him. The two lies I remember best: eating french fries gives you freckles, and nobody know why fans spin — it's one of the universe's great mysteries.
On the other hand, he was so worried about unduly influencing me that he kept many of his thoughts and beliefs (for example, his atheism) a secret from me, and my parents in no way shielded me from religion (their parents took me to religious services very frequently, for example). As a consequence, I actually went through the process of becoming an atheist all on my own, despite technically growing up in an atheist household.
A lot of this rings true for someone who was homeschooled from 4th grade through high school. I wasn't in as restrictive an environment as the couple in the articles, as well as being raised Catholic.
This is the part that resonated the most with me. I've talked about my personal issues on this site before, so I won't rehash them, but this is something I had kinda forgetten. Its such a hard thing to explain how total the control is. Even when you get glimpses of the happier outside world, the dogma that the World™ is evil and no one but them can be trusted is so aggresively pushed that your unlikely to seek help.
Another former homeschooler here, I couldn't agree more.
I've just spent the last month working through newly-identified trauma that I realised came from growing up in almost complete isolation with my parents (into my early 20s).
Even without accounting for corporal punishment, just the inescapable exposure alone to parental co-dependency and their neuroses/paranoia and need for obsessive control without any outside forces to intervene is abusive in such painfully subtle ways.
I might even say it is on par with being part of a cult, if a singular household could be considered one. Entering the "real" world later as a working adult isn't a matter of acclimating, it's a matter of surviving the sheer shock of how much you lost and fell behind on. Whether educationally or socially, key knowledge and experiences you never had as a child or skills you just never developed, and to know it was all because of these individuals who chose to exercise total power over your life for their favourite noble cause.
Anyway, wishing you well, fellow survivor, and many thanks to OP for sharing the article. I'm glad to have read it.
Incidentally, I tried to read Educated before some years ago but couldn't get into it. But this makes me want to try again, I think it could help me a lot.
From the pastor's parenting seminar:
I had to manually copy that text from an image, and it actually made me feel sick. That’s so diametrically opposed to my own parenting style it’s impossible to fathom willfully treating your child like an object to be broken.
This should be required watching for parents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTgahyvBMk4
I've actually read through Michael and Debbie Pearl's book years ago while digging into information on the Duggar family. It's horrifying as it sounds. I made a comment earlier about children not being their parent's property, but this whole viewpoint seems to come from a perspective that children are ultimately the slaves of their parents.
I've been following this sort of issue for a long time. I stumbled on Reddit's homeschoolrecovery subreddit a long time ago, and it really informed my view on home schooling. There are so many children that have been abused through educational neglect.
It's something that goes beyond just Christian fundementalists as well, though they're a majority of the problem. From what I've seen, the type of unschooling where you leave your kid alone to learn what they want (with no guidance, structure or assistance) is abuse as well. And then there are parents who start with good intentions and even do well at first, but homeschooling is a ton of work, and actually only gets more complex as the content covered gets more complex and builds on previous content. If a parent
And even in the states with "good" regulation (New York -- which requires education plans, testing, hours requirements), it's often not very enforceable. In New York, the strongest thing they can do is issue a notice of non-compliance and start requiring home visits. That takes a lot of documentation by the local school district , and then that would have to be followed up by either the truancy court, or CPS... It's still much better than nothing, because it's at least someone who is aware that the child exists, but it leaves a lot of room for misbehavior.
And that's the "good" example. There are states where it's legal to pull your kid out of school to "homeschool", and not even inform the state or local school district. That means by default, there is 0 oversight. I understand that children aren't "creatures of the state" (to quote the legal ruling that first overruled a law requiring students to attend public school) and do think parents should have the right to educate their kids at home, but they're not property of their parents either -- children have their own independent right to learn that shouldn't be ignored..
I was a precocious and fiercely curious child, and I wish that I had been given more freedom by my family and teachers in steering my own education. At home, I was coding (since elementary school) and devouring books on every subject. And school was where I went to sit and be bored and be surrounded by other bored children.
But my mom had great faith in "The System". (ha, ha)
If/when I have kids, I want to try a hybrid school/homeschool approach where they spend 3 or 4 days a week in a traditional school setting, and the remaining days pursuing their own interests and projects — provided that my kids propose self-study plans and are willing to have a guide or tutor check on their self-studies. I guess the challenge lies in finding a school that could support and accommodate such a plan.
Sounds like you're looking for a more homeschool co-op set up. And yeah, I attended public school growing up and can remember sitting through a lesson on something I had already mastered and being bored out of my mind.
The advice I would give to any parent planning to home school would be that you need to have regular check ins that
In early grades, that the bases are covered-- that your kid isn't missing some foundation that they'll need later. If your kid doesn't learn to read quickly, or struggles with early understanding of concepts like place value or what a fraction is, they're going to be in deep trouble very quickly. In a good school, when a kid doesn't "get it" teachers have training (or experience from having seen the same problem before) on how to identify the deficit and correct it. And that is an underrated skill that takes experience to pick up/
The child is getting enough regular social interaction with the same people (including other children) that they can develop the social skills to function publicly, and avoid developing phobias because of a lack of experience.
that the kid is getting enough structure in picking what to learn, when to learn it, and in the process of learning that the burden doesn't overwhelm them -- time management, the executive function to break down a goal into tasks, self-discipline. Those are all skills that need to be scaffolded over time and especially for elementary and middle school, a lot of hand holding is necessary. And then, there are some people who just genuinely aren't suited to self-directed work. Even as an adult, I struggle with time management and breaking down my projects for work -- I can't imagine if I'd had to do it as a kid.
There is a reason many poorly homeschooled students struggle with math especially -- that's hard to teach yourself without someone to explain it to you, and more practice than most people want to do instinctively. A surprising number of adults also don't have the conceptual understanding of mathematics, even for late elementary math, necessary to know why math algorithms work. And once you get to Algebra? A tiny minority. It takes a lot of skill to teach even middle school math well.
Done right, what you're talking about could lead to an amazing education. The devil's in the details though, so you have to keep self evaluating whether what you are doing is working.
Unschooling isn’t supposed to be abandoning your children in the hopes that they’ll learn everything they need to. That is child abuse, sure. You’re supposed to be guiding them, providing them with both resources and goals, and helping them when they are having trouble.
Of course, I’m not surprised that people take advantage of the idea as an excuse to do terrible things.
From the article:
I'm someone who was relentlessly bullied in school and would have greatly benefitted from at least some years of homeschooling or I guess a private tutor, not my parents. Homeschooling is not possible in Germany. Since I didn't have my autism diagnosis until I was 10, and my parents knew something was different with me but not what, I was enrolled in a special needs school. It was horrible. The education was far slower than what was good for me, and the climate on the schoolyard was an absolute disaster. I'm glad I got out of there after a year.
I think we need to have options for private tutoring, and provide proper education to everyone according to their needs. When I hear people say it's not the state's job to provide an education, it is all within "parental rights" to do as they please, I get really scared. Children are people, not property. If what's good for a child is opposed to whatever whim their parents have, the child should still get it. If you make the discussion about a child's education all about what their parents or teachers want or think, you're doing it wrong.
https://archive.is/zn0Eu
What I can't understand is that if some people are that skeptical of secular education, why not send them to a religious school?
Cost is usually the reason. Public school is free. Even the most modest private religious school will probably be $10K+ per student, per year since they do not receive any public funding. If you have 2 or 3 kids that cost becomes extreme in a hurry.
True. Depending on the jurisdiction.
In our province, religious schools are highly supported, receive most of the same funding as public schools and parents still have to pay some fees, but there were also bursaries and generous donors (often grandparents) who would pay those for others, so we had still had single moms with two kids who could still attend.
Yes often quite expensive in some areas. I was raised in a private school and it was $3K USD a year... in the 1990s
I want to draw attention to a 4-part documentary titled 'Shiny Happy People' that was just released last week. The documentary (like this article) focuses on the Duggar family of '19 Kids and Counting' fame, and the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) Christian fundamentalist organization and their homeschooling curriculum Advanced Training Institute. It was a very eye-opening doc, to say the least!