77 votes

US Federal Trade Commission bans new noncompete agreements

33 comments

  1. [9]
    CannibalisticApple
    Link
    Quoting the parts I found most vital that didn't make the headline. It's not just banning new agreements, but it's also nullifying existing ones for non-executive positions. This is great, since...

    For senior executives, existing noncompetes can remain in force. For all other employees, existing noncompetes are not enforceable.

    The commission's final rule does not nullify existing noncompetes with senior executives, who are defined as those earning more than $151,164 a year and who hold a policy-making position. Those execs are much more likely to negotiate the terms of their compensation, according to regulators.

    Quoting the parts I found most vital that didn't make the headline. It's not just banning new agreements, but it's also nullifying existing ones for non-executive positions. This is great, since so many noncompete agreements are somewhat vague or heavily limit options for workers, such as the Jimmy John's one for all workers which was cited in the article.

    43 votes
    1. [8]
      updawg
      Link Parent
      What I'm curious about is that one of my contractors is dealing with a non-compete court case. Will it be dismissed assuming this becomes law? That would certainly be a burden off his shoulders.

      What I'm curious about is that one of my contractors is dealing with a non-compete court case. Will it be dismissed assuming this becomes law? That would certainly be a burden off his shoulders.

      13 votes
      1. [7]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Maybe? It's possible it would be still okay to sue over violating a non-complete that was valid at the time of the violation? I'm not a lawyer, I just know that sometimes law changes don't hit...

        Maybe? It's possible it would be still okay to sue over violating a non-complete that was valid at the time of the violation?

        I'm not a lawyer, I just know that sometimes law changes don't hit retroactively the way you would think they would

        5 votes
        1. [6]
          psi
          Link Parent
          Just to be a little pedantic, this is a rule, not a law. Basically Congress passes legislation that tells a US agency to regulate something (in this case, unfair business practices, 15 U.S.C. 45...

          Just to be a little pedantic, this is a rule, not a law. Basically Congress passes legislation that tells a US agency to regulate something (in this case, unfair business practices, 15 U.S.C. 45 and 46(g)) and the agency promulgates rules interpreting that law.

          But to address your question, the actual rule banning non-competes is here:

          I think these are the relevant bits?

          Proposed § 910.2(a) would not apply retroactively. An employer would not violate proposed § 910.2(a) where—prior to the compliance date—it entered into or attempted to enter into a non-compete clause with a worker; maintained with a worker a non-compete clause; or represented to a worker that the worker is subject to a non-compete clause. Instead, proposed § 910.2(a) would require employers to refrain from these practices starting on the compliance date.

          and

          2(b) Existing Non-Compete Clauses

          Proposed § 910.2(b) would clarify employers' obligations, and impose additional requirements, related to non-compete clauses entered into by the employer prior to the compliance date (“existing non-compete clauses”).

          2(b)(1) Rescission Requirement

          Proposed § 910.2(b)(1) would state that, to comply with proposed § 910.2(a)—which states it is an unfair method of competition for an employer to maintain with a worker a non-compete clause—an employer that entered into a non-compete clause with a worker prior to the compliance date must rescind the non-compete clause no later than the compliance date. The reasons why the Commission is proposing this rescission requirement are described above in the section-by-section analysis for proposed § 910.2(a).

          The requirements in § 910.2(b)(1)-(3) do not apply where a worker's obligation not to compete elapsed prior to the compliance date. This is because the requirements in § 910.2(b)(1)-(3) derive from § 910.2(a), which establishes it is an unfair method of competition to maintain with a worker a non-compete clause. An employer does not maintain with a worker a non-compete clause, in violation of the Rule, where the obligation not to compete elapsed prior to the compliance date. For example, if a worker left their job in 2019 and was subject to a two-year obligation not to compete, that obligation would have elapsed in 2021, and the employer would not violate the Rule by failing to rescind the non-compete clause.

          So, if I understand these points correctly, all non-competes are invalid starting from 120 days after the publication of the rule, but if your non-compete obligation has already elapsed/will have elapsed before the rule comes into effect, you can't retroactively use this rule to invalidate your old non-compete.

          5 votes
          1. [4]
            krellor
            Link Parent
            I don't know that there is a difference that makes a difference between a rule and a law when you are talking about rule making authority. Source Barring any major changes in the legislative or...

            I don't know that there is a difference that makes a difference between a rule and a law when you are talking about rule making authority.

            A valid legislative rule is binding upon all persons, and on the courts, to the same extent as a congressional statute. When Congress delegates rulemaking authority to an agency, and the agency
            adopts legislative rules, the agency stands in the place of Congress and makes law.” National Latino Media Coalition v. Federal Communications
            Commission, 816 F.2d 785, 788 (D.C. Cir. 1987)

            Source

            Barring any major changes in the legislative or judicial branches, rules are laws and recorded as such in the CFR or Federal Register.

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              psi
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              The main difference is that what a rule-making agency can giveth, a rule-making agency can taketh away. It's not exactly the same as Congress outright banning non-competes via legislation since...

              I don't know that there is a difference that makes a difference between a rule and a law when you are talking about rule making authority.

              The main difference is that what a rule-making agency can giveth, a rule-making agency can taketh away. It's not exactly the same as Congress outright banning non-competes via legislation since

              1. it's easier to challenge a rule than a law (as has already happened; in their lawsuit, the Chamber of Commerce has argued that this rule "reflects an arbitrary and capricious exercise of the Commission's power");
              2. it's easier for a new agency head to rewrite a rule than for Congress to pass a new law; and
              3. Chevon deference is probably doomed, which means we should expect a future in which courts are also in the business of rulemaking (and probably not to our benefit).

              But yes, with respect to @DefinitelyNotAFae's question, there is no operational difference.

              2 votes
              1. krellor
                Link Parent
                I'm not an expert on the litigation side of things, but is it easier to challenge a rule implemented by a rule making agency then to challenge a law passed by Congress? For example, the forced...

                I'm not an expert on the litigation side of things, but is it easier to challenge a rule implemented by a rule making agency then to challenge a law passed by Congress? For example, the forced sale/ban of TikTok is expected to result in litigation. I suppose a rule gives the plaintiffs in a case a few more arguments and lines of reasoning to challenge, but ultimately you are filling a federal lawsuit to challenge either one.

                That said, it is definitely true that it is easier for an agency to change the rules than for Congress to pass a law.

                And we will see how the Chevron deferance plays out. I have been watching that issue and am curious to see where it lands.

                1 vote
              2. DefinitelyNotAFae
                Link Parent
                Definitely more me using an uptalky tone than an actual question on my part but ty!

                Definitely more me using an uptalky tone than an actual question on my part but ty!

                1 vote
          2. DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            This also assumes there won't be immediate legal action (there will but I don't know how successful it'll be) And thanks for the law vs rule correction I was definitely not wanting to speak from...

            This also assumes there won't be immediate legal action (there will but I don't know how successful it'll be)

            And thanks for the law vs rule correction I was definitely not wanting to speak from any higher authority.

            1 vote
  2. [2]
    werehippy
    Link
    A phenomenal, common sense quality of life ruling. Non-competes are just another example of a reasonable in theory idea that was supposed to apply to an extremely niche situation (where a worker...

    A phenomenal, common sense quality of life ruling.

    Non-competes are just another example of a reasonable in theory idea that was supposed to apply to an extremely niche situation (where a worker in one business agreed not to compete directly with that business if they left because bringing them on as a worker in the first place involved giving them proprietary information/access that would make the uniquely and unfairly able to undercut the original business) which was basically immediately twisted into a broadly applied avenue to suppress worker's wages and stiffle normal competition.

    29 votes
    1. tanglisha
      Link Parent
      This was also originally put in place before the megacorps. Companies don't do just one thing anymore, and it's pretty much impossible to keep up with all the areas of business these things reference.

      This was also originally put in place before the megacorps. Companies don't do just one thing anymore, and it's pretty much impossible to keep up with all the areas of business these things reference.

      13 votes
  3. BeanBurrito
    Link
    Long overdue. I remember having to sign one to get a very ordinary job. I've seen articles about fast food workers having to sign one too. Ridiculous.

    Long overdue.

    I remember having to sign one to get a very ordinary job.

    I've seen articles about fast food workers having to sign one too. Ridiculous.

    11 votes
  4. [2]
    BashCrandiboot
    Link
    As someone who quit their job and started a business earlier this year, this is absolutely huge for me. Does anyone know when I can expect this to hit the FTC Register so I can start the 120 day...

    As someone who quit their job and started a business earlier this year, this is absolutely huge for me. Does anyone know when I can expect this to hit the FTC Register so I can start the 120 day countdown?

    8 votes
    1. updawg
      Link Parent
      Should be in a few days but there will surely be court cases.

      Should be in a few days but there will surely be court cases.

      4 votes
  5. [16]
    BusAlderaan
    Link
    "from minimum-wage earners to CEOs" Ok, I'm gonna need someone to give me an example of a minimum-wage worker who is bound by a noncompete agreement. These seems like something that will largely...

    "from minimum-wage earners to CEOs"

    Ok, I'm gonna need someone to give me an example of a minimum-wage worker who is bound by a noncompete agreement. These seems like something that will largely benefit executives and some niche associates.

    4 votes
    1. [10]
      CannibalisticApple
      Link Parent
      From the article itself: Unfortunately, some bad employers try to use noncompete agreements as a tool to manipulate and trap workers in bad working conditions. I'm sure these people could...

      From the article itself:

      Low-paid workers are now the hardest hit by restrictive work agreements, which can forbid employees including janitors, security guards and phlebotomists from leaving their job for better pay even though these entry-level workers are least likely to have access to trade secrets.

      Unfortunately, some bad employers try to use noncompete agreements as a tool to manipulate and trap workers in bad working conditions. I'm sure these people could successfully argue how ludicrous and infeasible the agreement was in court, but that would require a lot of time and legal expenses that a majority of people in those jobs just don't have.

      27 votes
      1. [9]
        BusAlderaan
        Link Parent
        This is wild, I don't know anyone who's under these types of restrictions, but then again, maybe I just don't know. How often does that kind of stuff come up with friends? I work in a very private...

        This is wild, I don't know anyone who's under these types of restrictions, but then again, maybe I just don't know. How often does that kind of stuff come up with friends?

        I work in a very private industry, many projects hushed up until launch, and I don't even have to sign noncompetes.

        2 votes
        1. [7]
          boxer_dogs_dance
          Link Parent
          Are you in California? I think state law limits them

          Are you in California? I think state law limits them

          9 votes
          1. [3]
            BusAlderaan
            Link Parent
            A lot of the contracts I've had were in CA, yeah. I guess I hadn't thought about state law limiting them, but that makes total sense.

            A lot of the contracts I've had were in CA, yeah. I guess I hadn't thought about state law limiting them, but that makes total sense.

            6 votes
            1. [2]
              teaearlgraycold
              Link Parent
              Part of the reason California has Silicon Valley is because of its strong worker protections. Non-competes aren't enforceable and workers own all IP they produce outside of work. What's funny is I...

              Part of the reason California has Silicon Valley is because of its strong worker protections. Non-competes aren't enforceable and workers own all IP they produce outside of work.

              What's funny is I have actually signed a non-compete in CA before. For my first job here my contract had a non-compete page. Then on the next page it mentioned that they were legally obligated to inform me that the previous page was completely unenforceable.

              22 votes
              1. ackables
                Link Parent
                Lots of California companies will have you sign non-competes even though they are completely unenforceable. They never act on them, but they do like to try and scare the ignorant. Something must...

                Lots of California companies will have you sign non-competes even though they are completely unenforceable. They never act on them, but they do like to try and scare the ignorant.

                Something must have changed recently because I got a letter from a company I worked for two years ago telling me that the non-compete clause I signed is unenforceable. Hopefully that means that companies aren't allowed to try and scare you with non-compete clauses in California anymore.

                11 votes
          2. [3]
            SunSpotter
            Link Parent
            Even in California, 3/4 of my last jobs have all had some kind of NDA. Of the three, only one seemed reasonable since it was a really niche industry with a ton of competition and I had a position...

            Even in California, 3/4 of my last jobs have all had some kind of NDA. Of the three, only one seemed reasonable since it was a really niche industry with a ton of competition and I had a position that actually required me to understand how everything worked. The other two were complete jokes just meant to scare people.

            1. [2]
              boxer_dogs_dance
              Link Parent
              An NDA or a noncompete agreement?

              An NDA or a noncompete agreement?

              4 votes
              1. SunSpotter
                Link Parent
                Yeah, I confused myself on that one, sorry about that it was quite the long day for me. Two of those jobs had both an NDA and a non-compete, and one was just a non-compete. I stand by my statement...

                Yeah, I confused myself on that one, sorry about that it was quite the long day for me. Two of those jobs had both an NDA and a non-compete, and one was just a non-compete. I stand by my statement that all those except for the one design job I had were not justified though.

                2 votes
        2. JCPhoenix
          Link Parent
          The last place I left had me sign a non-compete against working for similar companies. But when I asked WTF it was about, they said, "It's not that we don't want you to work wherever you want;...

          The last place I left had me sign a non-compete against working for similar companies. But when I asked WTF it was about, they said, "It's not that we don't want you to work wherever you want; just don't divulge our software and processes." OK, so then why not an NDA? And that's not what the 1 paragraph non-compete was saying on its face. It was pretty clear about not working for competitors. I think it was like a 1-3yr non-compete, so it either expired a year or two ago or literally this month. Didn't really apply anyway, since I went back to a previous employer in a completely different industry, where I'm still at.

          And I was only an IT Field Tech/Jr Sysadmin for a small MSP. I wasn't a director or executive. I wasn't making six figures; only like mid five figures. And they wouldn't've sued me or stopped me, anyway, even if I did eventually land at a competitor. But it still felt really weird to sign it.

          5 votes
    2. [2]
      boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      Depends a lot on which state you live in.

      Depends a lot on which state you live in.

      8 votes
      1. kovboydan
        Link Parent
        Noise: If only people knew how often “it depends” is the answer.

        Noise: If only people knew how often “it depends” is the answer.

        1 vote
    3. drannex
      Link Parent
      I know some software developers locked into their current jobs at just a little above the minimum wage because of noncompetes.

      I know some software developers locked into their current jobs at just a little above the minimum wage because of noncompetes.

      8 votes
    4. WiseassWolfOfYoitsu
      Link Parent
      States with lax rules have been using them as cudgels to force down pay by limiting mobility. I've heard about it in field such as nursing, for example.

      States with lax rules have been using them as cudgels to force down pay by limiting mobility. I've heard about it in field such as nursing, for example.

      4 votes
    5. sparksbet
      Link Parent
      A friend of mine in college had a non-compete when he worked for Teavana (before they closed down -- tea place owned by Starbucks). I promise you he was not making enough above minimum wage for it...

      A friend of mine in college had a non-compete when he worked for Teavana (before they closed down -- tea place owned by Starbucks). I promise you he was not making enough above minimum wage for it to matter.

      1 vote
  6. [2]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    Chamber of Commerce sues to block noncompete ban
    3 votes
    1. kovboydan
      Link Parent
      For those curious about venue, it was filed in Eastern District of Texas. Complaint is here. Edit: Find the Jimmy John’s link somewhere in the comments here and then go read paragraphs numbered 1...

      For those curious about venue, it was filed in Eastern District of Texas.

      Complaint is here.

      Edit: Find the Jimmy John’s link somewhere in the comments here and then go read paragraphs numbered 1 and 2 in the complaint.

      3 votes