What cultural touchstone movies have totally passed you by?
I just caught part of one of the newer Terminator movies as I was flicking through channels on TV, and I was only able to identify it because a scene with a visibly 60-plus Arnold Schwarzenegger made me realize he probably hasn't acted in a decade and a half otherwise. I've never seen any of the Terminator movies... a fact which never fails to elicit shocked responses in movie conversations. I've also never watched any of the Alien, Indiana Jones, or Harry Potter franchises, am yet to watch any of the Shreks (despite one of my exes quoting them all the time and telling me she basically learned most of her life lessons from them), nor any of the Toy Story movies. I think the only Pixar movie I've ever watched is Up. I do mix up Pixar and Dreamworks all the time, so that whole debate between the two goes over my head, but I know I've never found Nemo or seen Frozen, or practically any of the others.
Obviously this is most egregious for stuff that's been released during your lifetime, or maybe adulthood, but feel free to include whatever you've never been particularly convinced you've missed out on, from any era.
The Marvel movies.
I’ve seen some of them and they seem fine as a summer blockbuster type movie but I don’t get the hype they have, especially in geek circles.
The MCU is a cohesive rendition of the Marvel Universe. Most films are good enough, some are great and one or two are epic and awesome. Marvel innovated with a long term project and took its time to dazzle a whole new generation. For many, the MCU was the first engaging contact with the super heroes subculture. There are now young adults that were teenagers when the MCU started, and teenagers that were children. Those movies are for them what Star Wars, Harry Potter, and the Lord of the Rings trilogy were for previous generations.
For me, seeing all the characters I loved on comic books as a kid in a version that doesn’t suck is thrilling in itself.
Ditto... especially since before the MCU (or more accurately; before Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, which essentially kicked the live-action superhero renaissance off) we basically only had absolute trash tier representations of superheroes when it came to live-action TV/Movies. Now don't get me wrong, the pre-MCU trash tier stuff had its charms too, but it definitely wasn't as satisfying to watch as all the new stuff that has come out since.
I agree.
But I believe Bryan Singer’s X-Men in 2000 is usually considered the starting point of the super heroes movie renaissance. I remember seeing it in the theater, it was awesome.
Eh... X-Men (2000) still had way too much lingering campy/cheesiness from its 90's predecessors to be considered the start of the renaissance, IMO. Whereas Nolan's Batman Begins was the first superhero movie to finally shake off the "superheroes are just for kids, so the plot doesn't have to make any sense, and our writing can be super lazy!" excuses of the past, and take itself seriously as a film.
Well, one must take into account that X-Men and Batman are very different franchises. In 2005 Batman was already an adult, tortured, gritty character – Frank Miller’s Batman Year One, from 1987(!), among many others arcs, limited series, and graphic novels, had already introduced a Batman for grown ups devoid of campy/cheesiness.
Yeah, it's true that a few of the Batman comic runs and spinoffs were pretty dark/adult oriented, but the vast majority were just as kid friendly as the X-men runs were. But regardless, X-Men (2000) was still pretty shit IMO, and Bryan Singer is a sexual predator scumbag, so I absolutely refuse to acknowledge that movie as the start of the superhero renaissance. ;)
I didn’t know he was a scumbag. But he did start the super hero era, I’m afraid. This is more about box office than anything. The quality of being a grown-up film is not really a requirement.
In your opinion maybe. But to me, and many others, the modern superhero tv/movie era doesn't start until the grown-up quality actually does come into play, which Singer was not really the start of, IMO. But since we're just arguing over arbitrary delineations, and semantics at this point, it's probably not worth continuing. :P
I believe most super hero movies are juvenile, simple fun adventures. Batman is the exception, no?
Most of the DCEU is pretty damn dark/serious in tone, as is a significant portion of the MCU (E.g. Winter Soldier, GotG Vol. 2, Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War/Endgame, all the Netflix shows, etc), so I wouldn't say Batman is the exception there at all.
Batman was definitely the more mature exception in the DC comic universe for quite some time (other than Lobo), but the Marvel comic universe has had quite a few similarly dark/mature characters over the years (e.g. Punisher, Cable, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Deadpool, Venom, etc.), and more than a few extremely dark/mature series runs (e.g. all the MAX titles) and alternative timeline series too.
I guess I don’t understand the appeal of comic book heroes. I love similar fictitious genres like fantasy and sci-fi but IMO they are rooted in escapism while I personally see comic book heroes as drawing on power fantasy and vigilante themes. I thought Alan Moore’s The Watchmen novel to be a pretty good exploration of this.
I should have included the MCU in my list too. I had just taken a part-time job a movie theater before the pandemic and caused consternation amongst the crew by telling them that despite liking Marvel comics as a kid, I'd only watched one of the movies all the way through and subsequently hadn't really expected much from the rest. After some conversation, I asked them which one they thought was the best film overall so I could give it a shot, and they said it was probably Captain America and the Winter Soldier... and I told them that was the one I watched! LOL. I also thought it was fine, but I wasn't getting particularly excited over it.
That is not the best by a long shot. Avengers Infinity and Endgame are vastly superior, as well as Dr. Strange.
Even as standalone movies?
Even for the standalone (i.e. non-Avengers) movies, Winter Soldier is definitely not the best, IMO... not even close. Spider-Man: Homecoming, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Thor: Ragnarok are probably my favorites of the bunch. If you haven't seen those you should consider giving them a watch.
p.s. Even though it's not technically part of the MCU, Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse is great, and well worth watching too.
I’m not sure I understand the question.
If you only ever watched either The Winter Soldier, Infinity War, or Endgame (and no other Marvel movies), which would you consider the best? From what I've heard (also haven't watched Infinity War or Endgame), the latter two build heavily on previous movies in the MCU.
I’d probably think Dr. Strange is the best movie that is less connected to the major arc. The Winter Soldier doesn’t even register as a particularly good movie. It’s just regular mindless action. Even Captain Marvel is better in my view.
That said, the MCU is a mega cohesive saga and I don’t think it makes a lot of sense trying to isolate the parts from the whole. They are meant to work in conjunct.
I think for me I enjoyed them as reliable summer blockbuster that whenever I was able to get a chance with mates to watch a film together we knew would be a good laugh and we could see each one as they came out without too much effort.
It is almost certainly the highest average quality maintained over a long-running series of 20+ movies.
That's establishing a low bar, obviously. (What's the competition—Land before Time?) But I think most people agree that the worst of them are merely mediocre, and most are—as you say—fine blockbuster action films. That's valuable to people who regularly watch movies for entertainment; if there's a Marvel film in theaters, you've got a baseline enjoyable option.
As for the nerd hype… they're comic book movies. Nerds are incredibly susceptible to pandering.
Please explain why nerds are "particularly susceptible". As opposed to..... literally anyone.
Now you just need to watch Flashdance and Footloose to complete the 80s dance movie trifecta. ;)
A new-ish podcast I like called Why Are Dads did a really interesting episode about Dirty Dancing.
Honestly, so many. The Godfather comes to mind, as do the LOTR movies and all the Marvel moves after Thor, and Christmas movies like Home Alone. I tend to watch the same comedies over and over. It's becoming a sticking point with my fiancée's mom, who fancies herself a cultured film critic, but I just don't take movies that seriously! I want them to make me laugh and walk away entertained. I'm not really seeking a 2 hour masterpiece that will cause me to think super deeply.
You really shouldn’t take films seriously. If you’re not getting paid, there’s no good reason to do so.
That said, unless you have an aversion to crime drama, you should watch The Godfather because you will probably enjoy it. A lot.
I've heard that, and it's probably true, but I think for me, The Godfather's become such a stereotype that I wouldn't be able to enjoy it. It's kind of like how "I Love Lucy" was probably hilarious when it first aired, but having it constantly be on in re-runs as a kid, it just seemed stupid. The same jokes from other shows (that actually probably stole it from "I Love Lucy"), and the same episodes shown over and over again. Plus I'm really tired of the "All Italians are in the Mafia" stereotype. Obviously, some are/were, but since it's the only version of Italians ever shown in cinema, I'm not really interested.
The Godfather is definitely more nuanced than you think. I mean, you have a lot of assumptions about a movie you haven’t watched, and I happen to think most of them are wrong.
It’s not easy to make correct statements about things we do not know.
Anything by Kubrick.
I watched Clockwork Orange, I've tried watching 2001: A Space Odyssey. I didn't enjoy either of those movies. It seems to me that the way Kubrick films maybe just isn't for me.
The Shinning and Full Metal Jacket might be better entry points.
My favourite Kubrick movie is Dr. Strangelove. Where his other films benefit from his manic attention to detail through increasing a sense of wonder, dread, or anxiety, Strangelove uses it to enhance its pretty clear-cut satirical comedy. It's like a high-brow, cinematically inventive Airplane!, well before the latter was around.
Airplane! is probably my pick off the top of my head if I'm forced to name my favorite movie, so I'm definitely about to get around to Dr. Strangelove now, thanks.
Fair warning; it's nowhere near as dense with wordplay or goofiness, but there are multiple layers of off-the-wall comedy in every scene and constant references to other, self-serious, pieces of media in the same way. I hope you enjoy it!
I personally really dislike Kubrick's style. It's very boring and I don't think that his attention to detail really does all that much to build the world like most people like to point out. I think he's extremely overrated in just about every aspect. In my opinion his best movie is AI: Artificial Intelligence, and he didn't even direct that one.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find shelter for the people who are going to try stoning me to death for saying this. :P
I’m trying very hard to keep my stones down :P
Oof, me too.
Sets rock down
What's your opinion on that movie if you amputate the Speilbergian ending? It's been awhile since I've seen it, but it was clear that ending didn't belong with the rest of movie.
Optimism is not in Kubrick’s DNA, and Spielberg is basically the opposite. Kubrick clearly wanted a dark Pinocchio, and Spielberg could only do the Disney version. Even when Spielberg doesn’t do happy endings, he usually manages to reinforce our belief in humanity somehow. That’s what he did with Artificial Intelligence. But, since that was not really supposed to be a Spielberg movie, the ending is extremely contrived and plastered on. It’s as if Spielberg couldn’t stand the direction Kubrick was going for. It’s a terrible ending by all accounts.
The rest of the movie is competent, interesting, and entertaining. But endings are like super important.
To be clear, in general, I absolutely love Spielberg.
A Clockwork Orange is a pretty meh adaptation, to be honest. I like the story, but Kubrick's refusal to accept the last chapter of the book when it was finally able to be published also completely undermines any value the story had (I feel this way about the book, too, but Burgess didn't have a say in that on the first run).
I'd recommend trying to see 2001 in a theater, or in a quiet, dark room with the sound turned up a bit. It sounds weird, but a large part of that movie is built into the sound, particularly with regards to mood setting. It's one I can't watch if there are distractions, because you've gotta immerse yourself in it, which is arguably bad for a movie. However, that's a lot of effort for a movie that may just not hit.
Interesting that you said that, since I believe The Shining is probably the most accessible Kubrick. It is, in my view, a rather typical and easy to understand ghost story.
I find that hard to believe. I think the movie works for the uninitiated. It’s an unusually sophisticated horror film, but one that is well within the confides of the genre.
Just an anecdote, but I watched The Shining as a young teenager on VHS, with no prior knowledge of Kubrick. It worked very well. I enjoyed and was also scared shitless.
Wall-E is the only one on your list that I think is worth making the effort to see, it really is a classic.
Rear Window continues to be one of my favorites, and it stands the test of time. Highly recommended if you’re looking for one Hitchcock movie to watch. Psycho is good, but I still think it starts too slow and has too many things going on.
Can you give an example? I have a hard time with this, too, but enjoy many popular mainstream comedies. Some movies, like Borat for example, are hard for me because they're sometimes doing mean things to innocent people who don't know it's a ruse, which feels unfair to me. I also had a hard time with parts of The Office because of the awkward humor it often involved. But when I think of things like Ghost Busters, as a random example, I don't think of awkward humor. I'm just wondering if I'm thinking about the same things as you, or if I'm missing what you mean.
I understand what you mean, the physical cringe. It's helpful for me to pause movies and let that feeling subside and then continue. I like awkward comedies (read: any film with Michael Cera) but I definitely have a hard time getting through them.
There are actually some really good early cinema gems that most people don't know much about but are really worth watching. I recommend you watch some of Fritz Lang's films in particular. Start off with Metropolis; it's an extremely influencial silent movie that's also perhaps one of the earliest surviving examples of science fiction in film.
After that, watch M. It's a crime thriller about a serial killer (with recorded audio and dialog). To be honest, you'll probably find the beginning and middle to be a bit slow, but you should keep watching because the ending is really, really good. Lang considers it to be his magnum opus, and there's a bunch of people who consider it to be one of the best movies of all time.
As a film major, watching movies is kind of my job. I don’t think there’s a lot super popular things of value that I missed. Even today, I’m always closing gaps.
My knowledge of Asian cinema is quite poor. I wish I knew more Asian crime dramas. They’re quite good, I reckon. I also know nothing about alternative contemporary horror such as Vitch (Witch?), Midsommar and the like, because horror movies cause night terror on me.
The Witch is one of my absolute favorite movies. I can’t even explain why. I just love the desperation. Horror is my favorite genre, so that probably has something to do with it. Horror can present itself in so many ways!
Have you seen Eggers newest movie, The Lighthouse, yet? It was my top rated movie I watched this year, and I highly recommend it, especially if you liked The VVitch. And here's to hoping he keeps the streak going and The Northman turns out to be just as good too!
Yes! I loved The Lighthouse, and The Northman is already on my to-watch list.
I'm no expert either, but here are some Asian films I loved, in no particular order:
Titanic (the 1997 Cameron version). I'd already seen at least two other versions, the storyline was pretty much preordained ... but mainly, the worldwide non-stop advertising blitzkrieg that insisted everyone on Earth Absolutely Must See This Movie ... just drove me nuts, and I kind of swore to skip it specifically because the media kept inundating us with it. If you weren't old enough to remember it at the time, take my word for it, the advertising-saturation level for this film was just ridiculous.
More broadly, the vast majority of the (Movie Title) 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 sequels ... I will often see a first sequel (T2, Incredibles 2, etc) if there are good reasons to believe it's not just milking the success of the first ... but beyond that, I generally just skip 'em.
The hype machine was definitely in overdrive for Titanic... Celine Dion's heart was going on for months, nonstop. I think it's a good movie, but probably not as good as the marketing would have had you believe.
Titanic is probably one of the best melodramas in the history of film. And everything that Cameron does is top notch (yes, including Avatar. I’m one of those). But if you hate melodrama, you may as well skip it.
James Cameron is perhaps the most insane filmmakers in history. The story to Titanic is basically just a thin excuse to talk to the audience about one of his super geeky interests, but it's one of the best examples of a tragic romance to ever grade the screen. The same can be said of The Abyss.
And with his later output it seems like he just thinks about how much interesting stuff he could do with whatever new filmmaking techniques and makes a blockbuster with it. The CGI in Terminator 2 is still weirdly impressive even today because it does things that no other movies do. His trick is that he does things that no other filmmaker is able to do and it just captures the imagination of the audience in a way that simply can't be reproduced by anyone else.
He's like the complete opposite of Robert Zemeckis.
How is he the opposite of Zemeckis?
Haha! You sound exactly like me. The more I see an ad for something the less I want to see it.
There's a ton of them I haven't gotten around to seeing.
The ones at the top of my list to get around to are....
Anything by Kurosawa. The Star Wars films are among my most beloved(Yes, even the sequel trilogy) and Kurosawas influence cannot be understated. So, eventually, I really want to get around to watching, at minimum, Kurosawa's most famous and influential films. I have seen Seven Samurai but I'm due for a rewatch. The Hidden Fortress, Ran, Yojimbo.....are probably the top three I want to get around to watching.
The Godfather films. At least the first two. My understanding is that by the third film, it was starting to take a hit to the quality but that could be entirely inaccurate
2001: A Space Odyssey. Science fiction films are, in general, my jam, and 2001 is, as far as I understand, THE quintessential science fiction film.
When I was younger I would have considered myself a geek or nerd, but as time goes on and sci-fi/fantasy pop culture media enters into more of the mainstream I am having trouble keeping up. Someone has already mentioned the Marvel movies, which I am not interested in at all, but I also only have a very loose understanding of Star Wars. And I generally really enjoy sci-fi! I am a huge fan of Mass Effect, for instance. I just didn't get into Star Wars at all and most of what I know is from how it's talked about in the zeitgeist.
I will list here what I can recall:
For what it's worth, I did also play KoToR II and I thought that was really fun, although I think I was too young and not in the headspace to really appreciate it. I know there are tons of other spin-off games, books, and TV/miniseries entries to the franchise... there's really just a lot of it.