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Do any other US citizens think of emigrating?
I'm a 23 year old male originally from Southern California, and like the title says I'm curious to see if anyone else near my demographic has seriously looked into emmigrating in light of the past year and a half.
What factors motivate you to move?
What would be an ideal location for you?
What timeline would are you looking at?
One of the main motivators I seek to emmigrate is climate change. As the world continues to progress and evolve I do not think the United States will be able to equitabbly address the changing landscape and ways of life. As for when I would want to move, I'm not sure; currently it seems like a far off probability, but I know it's a choice I will have to make in my own lifetime.
I am currently in the process of doing so, and have been wanting to emigrate for the past ten years.
Healthcare: my family has a history of less-than-stellar health, from disease to high blood pressure, heart attacks (almost every 'male' in my family has about four), late diabetes, cancer, and back issues. We have a whole mix, and every time it has brought my family to near ruin due to the healthcare system in America.
Security: The amount of domestic terrorism that the average person here in the states have to accept as normal life is horrific and totally not okay for the people to be surrounded by, always living in fear and paranoia.
Scientific: I run a small robotics company,and there are more opportunities for scientific research and higher concentration of scientists, and engineers within a few hours of anywhere in Europe than anywhere else on the planet. Scientific development is my only goal in life, and I want to be where that happens.
Liberty: I am gay* and the United States is just not overall safe, while things are getting better, we still have a lot of issues, especially with the domestic terrorism issues previously mentioned.
Education: Europe has the greatest concentration of education, and if I become an EU citizen I can ensure that my children, and my younger sisters will be able to get a proper and mainly debt-free education. I can get that for them by claiming my right as an Italian Citizen (see "What timeline are you looking at?")
I am currently preparing to move to Southern France, I dislike the cold, and I miss the ocean (Born in Florida). I also love their political, healthcare and justice systems, their version of democracy, and overall history and culture.
My great-great grandfather was Italian before immigrating, this means that by Italian law I can file and become an italian citizen by means of ancestry by descent (Jure Sanguinis). This grants me the ability to live, work, and exist anywhere in the EU. The process takes about a year or two as you have to get all the documents required (birth certificates, death certificates, marriage licenses, etc) but I already have most of these and have confirmed the existence of the others. Then I will have to have a consulate visit and should be able to get Italian citizenship within the year if I am lucky.
I am hopeful that I will be able to migrate in about a year (confident within two) at where I am, and when the world isn't dealing with the whole "apocalyptic movie plot" thing going on right now.
I'm an open book, ask me anything if you want!
I highly recommend you get an immigration lawyer if possible. Three different extended family members went for Italian citizenship after brexit and two who did it alone had a hell of time, arbitrary denials, small mistakes meaning restarting the entire process, running around after certain stamps, one got straight up lied to at the consulate that lead to a denial. The one who got a lawyer basically gave everything the lawyer asked for and then only turned up for the things she needed to be there in person for and got citizenship first time with no problems in a few months.
Best of luck, hopefully one day i will join you!
That's the plan! I'm getting as many documents as possible beforehand to not waste time or money on the entire ordeal.
Hopefully one day that'll be the case! And happy your family was able to get through the process!
I'm jealous. All my research has shown I missed out on that boat by a generation or 2. My paternal grandmother's mom was born in Portugal, and so was my Paternal Grandfather's great-grandfather. From what I've been able to find I would only qualify if my grandmother had Portuguese citizenship and spoke the language.
I did this, it totally works. Hungary and (I believe) Ireland both do this, as well, and probably some other countries here. This is how I got my Hungarian (and by extension, EU) citizenship (both of my parents emigrated from Hungary to the US).
Well hot damn! I might qualify through the other side of my family...
Damn, if only Germany did something similar, it looks like although my grandma had German citizenship, since my mom didn't claim it/my grandparents didn't file for her to get it before 18, I'm SOL. I dunno if any of the things relating to post-WWII people reclaiming German citizenship would help either-- she was a teenage refugee from East Prussia at the end of it and ended up in the US after marrying an American solider five years after they were dumped in Berlin after the evacuation.
Of course my most recent ancestors who emigrated from Europe had to be from the countries where they don't do this. (My paternal grandmother was born in the Netherlands but moved to the US when she was three).
Sadly I can't think of another way to emigrate easily as an adult without a degree, which sucks because I'd love to finish mine if cost weren't an issue-- which it looks like it will be for the foreseeable future here in the States.
Huh.....my great grandfather was Irish and great grandmother Hungarian.
The last I looked, though, I couldn’t claim Irish citizenship because my dad hadn’t done so, either for himself or me.
Far as I know, I have no legal ties to either country. I wonder if their might still be some way
Weird. My dad was born in Italy and moved as an infant but we were told by the embassy that we’d basically need to start fresh because his parents renounced their citizenships. Maybe I have the wrong idea?
Every country's laws and requirements are different. Until today, I didn't know Italy did this at all. Hungary only started it 6 or 8 years ago.
If you have blood ancestors from any country in the Schengen Area, it's worth checking their citizenship laws ... and re-checking every few years.
As long as he did not renounce his Italian citizenship, or they did not renounce their Italian citizenship before he was born, then he should still be applicable (or you) to file for Italian citizenship.
Everything and everyone I've talked to makes note that as long as you were born before your parents renounce you are able to claim your citizenship, but there may be other factors.
I think what happened is that my grandparents renounced my dad’s and my aunts’ citizenships on their behalves (as far as I know) as they were small children. All of them were born in Italy.
Personally I’m doing fine here in Canada, but my parents would like to live in Europe.
FYI: Unless y'all renounce your US citizenship, you're still going to have to file tax statements, disclose financials, etc. Some Banks (investment banks in particular) won't want to have anything to do with US citizens because of the reporting implications. US is the only country I know of that overreaches this much.
Unless you're quite wealthy, you won't have to pay a cent usually, but it's still a damn hassle.
As a cherry on the top of that poop-pile, I would add that the US has made it quite difficult and expensive to renounce your US citizenship ... kind of the Capitalistic version of the Iron Curtain.
Oh, absolutely. And if you renounce for tax reasons, they're going to be assholes to you even more. Whatever tax reasons means. What if I leave because I don't want to fuck around with your oppressive tax laws - not because I don't want to pay, but because I don't want to deal with filing and being denied service, as a german citizen, by a german bank, because I also am an US citizen? Is that leaving for tax reasons? Fuck if I know.
* I'm not a US citizen. I know a double citizen.
"Accidental Americans" is another thing to be pissed at the US for ... people born and raised in some other country, but thru some US citizenship loophole, the US decides that they have to go thru the same rigamarole to "renounce" a citizenship they never wanted.
Meanwhile, ICE is "deporting" actual US citizen babies, born in the US to illegal immigrants, not even to parents' home country, but to whichever country the next plane is headed to.
To add some numbers, the first ~$100K/yr usually isn't taxable (per the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion [1]), and the remaining tax burden can lessened a little bit per the Foreign Tax Credit [2]. But yeah, definitely an unnecessary hassle.
[1] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion
[2] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-tax-credit
Ugh, I didn't even realize that was something I would have to consider
Me an my fiancee has semi-seriously talked about emigrating before we have kids. I grew up internationally, so I have a lot less emotional investment in the country. She is a bit more reluctant and has a few more attachments, but its still something we would like to look into.
For me, there are a couple of reasons.
education: What I saw of the US education system for the part of my childhood I spent here made me never want to entrust my kids to the system. Its a babysitting system more than its a childcare system. Many school districts have absolutely refused to modernize, or, when they do, they go off chasing buzzwords. They invariably spend 10x the money on the football team than they spend on other, more productive, extracurricular. (my robotics team worked out of a closet in the woodshop while the football team got $2 million to improve the already fancy football field.
healthcare: I have a lot of mental health issues, including autism and generalized anxiety. If I wasn't on the state healthcare plan (will be till 26, I believe), Id be completely broke and most likely homeless due to the cost of insurance and copay's/deductibles on therapy and meds.
workplace protections: While my disability is technically covered by the ACA, I have yet to get a single reply from any company where I ticked the little disability box on the job application, and I have experienced retaliation and being pushed out of jobs if I let my employer know about my disability after being hired. Mental health is still stigmatized quite a bit in the US workforce, and that's not even getting into the lack of workplace protections that everyone feels.
where my taxes are going: I don't mind paying taxes, I really don't. But I cant help but feel uneasy about what my country spends my taxes on. I don't want my tax bill to go towards and imperialistic military more than it does healthcare and education combined. Evidently my vote doesn't matter to the president (see: Syria) or my representatives, so the only other thing I can do is vote with my wallet, so to speak.
That sounds about right, and for most robotics team I was apart of in HS, and mentor for now. Sad state of affairs.
As far as I understand it, Americans still have to pay taxes when abroad - would you renounce US citizenship eventually to avoid that?
Possibly. From what Ive heard, though, you get tax credit for taxes paid to the country you live in. So we would only pay the difference between european taxes and ameican ones. I think.
Your destination seems very different than that of most ex-pats. What type of jobs do y’all have?
I'm very curious - to give many in this thread a sense of a baseline, how does the U.S. compare in those regards to Korea/Japan/Taiwan?
Offtopic but you need another line-break to separate your answers from the quote blocks.
Sometimes I think about it. I'll be honest though that I don't think it over too seriously right now.
Political instability, disillusionment with the current state of politics, and concerns for safety. Otherwise I actually quite like America, so long as it remains democratic enough for me.
Europe. West Germany (Cologne possibly), Scandinavia, or perhaps the Czech Republic. Possibly the UK or Australia (All Commonwealth countries are European, CMV). Primarily I'd be looking based on work opportunities.
I'm Jewish which IMO rules out France, East Germany, or most of Eastern Europe. Italy & SPortugal are also a bit too economically/politically unstable for me
Only if things get worse
I'm in my mid-fifties. After Trump was elected, I sold off two cars and two houses, sold off or gave away 90% of my "stuff", and I moved to Europe. I've been living here in Hungary for almost 3 years now, getting ready to move to the Netherlands.
Hungary is one of the ... hmm ... "less good" EU countries to live in. It's actually a very nice place, day-to-day, but politically, it's even worse than the US was under Trump. I have some family here, I speak the language (somewhat), and I was able to get Hungarian citizenship, which is why I chose this as my initial destination.
Broadly speaking, the EU is an excellent destination for Americans to emigrate to. Picking which country in the EU is best for you, personally ... that takes a bit of work, but it's best if you can get dual citizenship in one of the EU (or Schengen Zone) countries, because that gives you native citizen access to jobs, healthcare, etc, t/out the EU. Several countries (at least including Hungary and Ireland) offer "blood rite" citizenship -- prove that you have enough blood-ancestors who were citizens, and you get to be a citizen, too. But even without that, the EU is pretty accommodating to US expats, either permanently or long-term temporarily.
I have absolutely thought about it, but the hurdles are too high to even think about doing the research on how to overcome them.
Europe seems like the most obvious place to go, but I can't imagine that working anywhere. I don't currently speak any other languages fluently, and the places that do have a high percentage of English speakers are probably also going to be the places that Americans will have the hardest time getting into.
I've began to really like the idea of moving somewhere in Southeast Asia; it seems like there are some really neat places to live in Malaysia and Singapore. And the weeb inside me really would love to be in Japan. South Korea has it's appeal, and so does Hong Kong and Taiwan. Heck, even mainland China doesn't seem like it would be that bad. The language barrier is even higher over there, but I actually like the Asian languages more than European languages and wouldn't mind learning them as much.
But if I can share a real fear, the biggest reason why I don't want to leave the US is because I'm fat. The US is practically the capitol of obesity; life would be much worse for me everywhere else just because of this.
You're not alone here. We crossed off a number of countries right away just because of how my partner would be viewed/treated because of their weight.
We debate it regularly. We'd love to if it was possible but there are a reasonable number of hurdles we'd have to overcome and its debatable if they are worth it.
My fiancee works in HR and thus far has only worked for US-based companies. Moving abroad would set them back multiple years bc they'd have to start from scratch learning a new countries laws and culture.
Both of us have disorders that make learning a new language difficult, and we'd both feel more comfortable living in a country where we speak the native language. Are there a lot of places where english is common enough we could survive? Yeah. Would we love that? No. So that greatly limits the countries we could move to. We also weigh how difficult the native language to learn so that maybe we could move there to try and widen the pool a bit.
Are there jobs both of us could get there?
Can we move there without feeling like a colonizer?
How is the treatment of women/lgbtq+ community since we are parts of those.
If there was a good way to hit all of those checkboxes I'd immigrate and renounce my US citizenship in a heartbeat.
When my girlfriend and I talk about our future, we sometimes imagine moving from Pennsylvania to Sweden after she graduates college. The more I read about politics, the more I am convinced that the Nordic model seems the best way to do things. Those countries always top the lists of the happiest countries. About 90% of Swedes understand English, which would make the transition easier.
Several of my favorite rock bands are from Sweden (Truckfighters, Dozer, Mustasch), and there are other bands I like that tour Europe much more often than they do concerts in the US. And my girlfriend loves ABBA.
I kind of have family in Sweden, although not by blood; my aunt (my mom's brother's wife) is Swedish, and I've met her family that still lives in Sweden when they've visited. I've been to Sweden once when I was two for my aunt and uncle's wedding.
I’m a dual citizen and the only thing stopping me from moving to France would be that I barely speak the language and I have no idea what I’d do for work. Also my SO would not be into it.
See my comment below. If you have French citizenship, that means you have EU citizenship, and you can emigrate to any country in the EU Schengen Zone, live and work there, with little or no extra hassle. Pick a country you and your SO like, and make the leap. Dutch is the official language of the Netherlands, but 90% or more people there speak English, and the country is pretty open to foreigners moving there, especially Americans and other Europeans. Aim for the Randstad area (the area between/around Amsterdam and The Hague). And for work ... Undutchables should get you started.
Nope! I have UK citizenship, so before Brexit I might have considered it, but these days I think I'll probably end up living in the US forever.
Much of the NHS considers my chronic illness to be psychosomatic/"false illness beliefs," so I doubt I'll ever want to live there. It's a shame; before I got ill I had dreams of studying and living there, and before Brexit most of Europe felt open to me.
Most countries have medical limitations on immigration. If you're likely to cost them too much money in a certain amount of time, they won't let you in.
As other people mentioned, don't forget the taxes/shitty financial issues people get into. Know what you need to do in order to get medical care — do you have to pay for your own insurance at first, or pay fees for coverage, or are you covered by their system from the start? Also, while some countries will handle climate change better than others, the effects will be global.