This is an interesting idea, kind of expensive if you're looking for a budget phone and it doesn't support 5G. But if you want an eink display, with a physical keyboard, a headphone jack with SD...
This is an interesting idea, kind of expensive if you're looking for a budget phone and it doesn't support 5G. But if you want an eink display, with a physical keyboard, a headphone jack with SD Card expandability, and something different than yet another black slate, this might be something for you.
Will it support banking apps? Like does it support literally any Play Store app? I don’t use Apple Pay or Google Wallet but I need banking apps to have 2FA. That’s basically what’s keeping me from...
Will it support banking apps? Like does it support literally any Play Store app? I don’t use Apple Pay or Google Wallet but I need banking apps to have 2FA.
That’s basically what’s keeping me from trying to something as bold as this.
Interesting concept, but I think it'd be more interesting if it leaned a bit harder into the minimalist concept. The e-ink screen is a good start, but instead of Android I'd have a bespoke...
Interesting concept, but I think it'd be more interesting if it leaned a bit harder into the minimalist concept.
The e-ink screen is a good start, but instead of Android I'd have a bespoke lightweight OS adjacent in aesthetic and resource requirements to the old Mac System 7 or the OS that came on pre-color-screen iPods, so you can put the most power efficient SoC you can find in it without worrying about it being too slow. Give it a good DAC and an SD card slot so it can handle media (music, books, etc) well. Keep the battery size the same. It'd probably last multiple weeks on a single charge, maybe longer if you're not taking calls often.
Maybe drop the camera and wireless charging to bring price and weight down. Keyboard is cool but also seems like the most likely point of failure so a touchscreen-only model might be nice.
I could justify one of the devices I just described alongside an existing smartphone, but this as it stands is a harder sell.
While I don't love android, I think people underestimate how miserable any sort of OS is to make, let alone for mobile use. The fact this is just skinned android gives me some hope it won't be e...
The e-ink screen is a good start, but instead of Android I'd have a bespoke lightweight OS
While I don't love android, I think people underestimate how miserable any sort of OS is to make, let alone for mobile use.
The fact this is just skinned android gives me some hope it won't be e waste in 2 years, and means they don't need to rebuild basically every app from scratch. Everyone seems to have a slightly different idea of what they actually want on these devices, and this way you can actually customize it rather than hope some startup is going to make the needed applications and not fold in 2 years.
Abandonment is a valid concern, though if the OS is open sourced and the device is good (giving people reason to maintain the OS), the risk is minimized. The difficulty of building an OS for a...
Abandonment is a valid concern, though if the OS is open sourced and the device is good (giving people reason to maintain the OS), the risk is minimized.
The difficulty of building an OS for a device like this depends on the scope. For something akin to System 7, which was so minimal that it was barely an OS, the scope is quite minimal. An OS based on Linux like is used by many cheap (~$50) handheld emulator devices would probably not be all that onerous to build.
I dunno, I'm just not too enthused with the heaviness and baggage of Android, which no amount of customization can fix.
This strikes me as extremely optimistic. Here's the FAQ for graphene OS, one of the actually open source mobile OS's (also based on android I believe) out there: https://grapheneos.org/faq There's...
Abandonment is a valid concern, though if the OS is open sourced and the device is good (giving people reason to maintain the OS), the risk is minimized.
This strikes me as extremely optimistic.
Here's the FAQ for graphene OS, one of the actually open source mobile OS's (also based on android I believe) out there: https://grapheneos.org/faq
There's a LOT of oof on there if you're shooting for any sort of viable commercial product. Hardware doesn't pay for itself.
It's worth noting, though, that many of the troubles faced by projects like grapheneOS stem from two things: supporting a large number of devices and keeping old manufacturer-provided driver...
It's worth noting, though, that many of the troubles faced by projects like grapheneOS stem from two things: supporting a large number of devices and keeping old manufacturer-provided driver binaries working on each new version of Android that comes out.
A more specialized single-device OS avoids most the first problem and if the manufacturer makes sure to provide the source for the device's drivers alongside the OS, the latter doesn't have to be a problem.
It’s still more devices than a hypothetical bespoke OS for a device by a shuttered company would support. The situation that’s been discussed thus far involves the company going under after 1-2...
It’s still more devices than a hypothetical bespoke OS for a device by a shuttered company would support. The situation that’s been discussed thus far involves the company going under after 1-2 revisions.
I think the physical keyboard is there by necessity due to the e-ink display. Not sure if you've ever tried typing on a Kindle's e-ink touchscreen, but it's frustrating if you're a moderately fast...
I think the physical keyboard is there by necessity due to the e-ink display. Not sure if you've ever tried typing on a Kindle's e-ink touchscreen, but it's frustrating if you're a moderately fast typer on a phone. The refresh rate just doesn't keep up fast enough to catch typos quickly and make changes. So while it adds a mechanical failure point, I do think it probably provides a better user experience.
Now if you're not someone who types on your phone much, I totally agree, a touch screen only version would be great. And honestly it would be tempeting to get one as a mini e-reader (as someone who strongly prefers reading on e-ink rather than a screen). If I could get a little phone sized e-reader that would be lovely.
You can go a long way with a custom launcher for Android and some tweaks if you want to go really deep. As far as what you're looking for, a old school flip phone might get you part of the way...
You can go a long way with a custom launcher for Android and some tweaks if you want to go really deep. As far as what you're looking for, a old school flip phone might get you part of the way there. Maybe something closer to a Kindle, or a custom project with a Raspberry Pi, but Android is something of a lowest common denominator with these sorts of projects, like Kobo or the Boox Palma if you want a handheld ereader. cc: @kingofsnake , @Englerdy
The Boox Palma is pretty close to what I was thinking! Great recommendation. Still pretty expensive though. I have a Kindle Paper White that I love, but it lives at home or in my bag when I...
The Boox Palma is pretty close to what I was thinking! Great recommendation. Still pretty expensive though. I have a Kindle Paper White that I love, but it lives at home or in my bag when I travel. I'm too afraid to forget it at work and not have it when I want to read at home. I'd like something kind of a cheap and smart phone size as an everyday carry to toss in my pocket or backpack for lunch or breaks. Honestly even something that connected to my phone and was driven by it could work pretty well if that was a lower cost route (which I just did a bit of searching and regretably that doesn't appear to be much of a product either, found a few but they're also pretty pricey and don't look like they're easy to get in the US).
That’s much closer yes, but durability might be a concern with the OLED screen panel (which can burn in) and it doesn’t look like the software is open.
That’s much closer yes, but durability might be a concern with the OLED screen panel (which can burn in) and it doesn’t look like the software is open.
The sales pitch about mental health and screen time, all while having Reddit preloaded, and access to the app store (and therefore all the other unhealthy apps and habits that cell phones provide)...
The sales pitch about mental health and screen time, all while having Reddit preloaded, and access to the app store (and therefore all the other unhealthy apps and habits that cell phones provide) tells me everything I need to know about the product and it's makers.
Also, what's the point of having a camera on an E-Ink device? You want to go minimal, commit to it and don't even feature the camera.
Soo, minimalist phone to minimize phone addiction, but they are kinda copying the key feature that earned BlackBerry the name "CrackBerry", i.e. the physical keyboard. The logo is pretty similar...
Soo, minimalist phone to minimize phone addiction, but they are kinda copying the key feature that earned BlackBerry the name "CrackBerry", i.e. the physical keyboard. The logo is pretty similar too.
400-500 seems expensive for a device with "less" features too.
Those kinds of devices pop up every few years, and I don't really get the point. Some of those devices can't do anything except for basic stuff like phone calls or SMS, in which case it's...
Those kinds of devices pop up every few years, and I don't really get the point.
Some of those devices can't do anything except for basic stuff like phone calls or SMS, in which case it's basically just an e-ink Nokia phone for 10x the price
The other type of those devices (like this one) support full Android, but then it's basically just a very low-end Android device with a monochrome screen, so again, I don't see why you'd pay a higher price for that. If you wanted to use your phone in monochrome, you could just enable that on any phone.
Slap "200€" on it and I'll buy it without even thinking about it. Hell, I would cough up 250€. But for this price, it is simply too much. If they made budget option with half the RAM, storage and...
Slap "200€" on it and I'll buy it without even thinking about it. Hell, I would cough up 250€. But for this price, it is simply too much.
If they made budget option with half the RAM, storage and slower SoC and thus made it to around 200€ I would still buy it. I always wanted phone with e-paper screen and I can live with budget phones (hardware-wise) and I can pay extra for extra features, but I don't need phone on the higher end (which this one is for me).
I use Nokia G22 as my phone now, which is kinda slow and small resolution and yada yada, but I paid extra for the repairability - I can disassemble the phone without using heat gun or cracking glass back or whatever. Yes, it does have just IP52 (I believe), but I come from times where all the phones were like that and I don't go swimming with my phone in my pocket, so who cares.
If this phone was in my price bracket, it would be no-brainer, I'm all in for this kind of ideas, but they always trip somewhere and make it too expensive for it being just experimental phone.
Looks like my old Kindle. I can't tell how small those keys are, but I suspect I'd have trouble using them. Sigh, I miss T9. Maybe I'll try it on an app, though that'll miss out on being able to...
Looks like my old Kindle. I can't tell how small those keys are, but I suspect I'd have trouble using them. Sigh, I miss T9. Maybe I'll try it on an app, though that'll miss out on being able to touch type.
I've been in the market for a new digital audio player that lives outside of my phone, and as I haven't looked for one in the last decade, I'm learning that there's a whole collection of people...
I've been in the market for a new digital audio player that lives outside of my phone, and as I haven't looked for one in the last decade, I'm learning that there's a whole collection of people who pair DAP Android players with dumb phones.
This looks more like Kobo meets ebook reader, but it has my attention. If I can support handset creators that aren't Google or Apple affiliated, I'm in
If I wasn't committed to having my Pixel 8 for its full Android support timefrime I would've bought one of these. I sorta have the phone usage issue this is targeting, but don't want to forsake my...
If I wasn't committed to having my Pixel 8 for its full Android support timefrime I would've bought one of these. I sorta have the phone usage issue this is targeting, but don't want to forsake my $800 investment. I'm stoked to see it's full Android, but just don't know if it would work for me.
I like the physical keyboard, though I wish it was detachable. I've been following The Light Phone (another minimalist phone) for years and hoping that it would meet my needs. Version III is...
I like the physical keyboard, though I wish it was detachable.
I've been following The Light Phone (another minimalist phone) for years and hoping that it would meet my needs. Version III is coming out, and it's going up in price (currently $499, but MSRP is $799) while Version II is only $299. It's hard to justify when you already have a phone that does everything you want/need.
I think going the android route makes a lot of sense when you look at the light phone. You are beholden to what they will support. From the Light Phone FAQ:
There is not currently a music streaming tool for platforms like Spotify, or a way to call/message with other platforms like Signal or Whatsapp. There is not a Rideshare tool available, either. These features may be possible in future software updates.
Hopefully the Daylight will sell well, and they make a palm/phone sized version. The 60fps display will be a game changer for these minimalist devices.
$500?! I wanted to ditch my smartphone and I got a $20 TCL Flip from amazon. If anyone is interested in getting a dumbphone I highly recommend this website
$500?! I wanted to ditch my smartphone and I got a $20 TCL Flip from amazon.
If anyone is interested in getting a dumbphone I highly recommend this website
This is an interesting idea, kind of expensive if you're looking for a budget phone and it doesn't support 5G. But if you want an eink display, with a physical keyboard, a headphone jack with SD Card expandability, and something different than yet another black slate, this might be something for you.
Will it support banking apps? Like does it support literally any Play Store app? I don’t use Apple Pay or Google Wallet but I need banking apps to have 2FA.
That’s basically what’s keeping me from trying to something as bold as this.
The page itself mentions downloading apps from the playstore, so google play services should in fact be supported
Since I haven't seen it brought up here -
There's a lot of suspicious stuff around the founders of this company, as documented here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dumbphones/comments/198y1xi/comment/ksnx43l/
And some suspicious stuff in the TOS, as documented here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40610053
Oh wow. Thanks for this. I guess my search for a phone continues.
Interesting concept, but I think it'd be more interesting if it leaned a bit harder into the minimalist concept.
The e-ink screen is a good start, but instead of Android I'd have a bespoke lightweight OS adjacent in aesthetic and resource requirements to the old Mac System 7 or the OS that came on pre-color-screen iPods, so you can put the most power efficient SoC you can find in it without worrying about it being too slow. Give it a good DAC and an SD card slot so it can handle media (music, books, etc) well. Keep the battery size the same. It'd probably last multiple weeks on a single charge, maybe longer if you're not taking calls often.
Maybe drop the camera and wireless charging to bring price and weight down. Keyboard is cool but also seems like the most likely point of failure so a touchscreen-only model might be nice.
I could justify one of the devices I just described alongside an existing smartphone, but this as it stands is a harder sell.
While I don't love android, I think people underestimate how miserable any sort of OS is to make, let alone for mobile use.
The fact this is just skinned android gives me some hope it won't be e waste in 2 years, and means they don't need to rebuild basically every app from scratch. Everyone seems to have a slightly different idea of what they actually want on these devices, and this way you can actually customize it rather than hope some startup is going to make the needed applications and not fold in 2 years.
Abandonment is a valid concern, though if the OS is open sourced and the device is good (giving people reason to maintain the OS), the risk is minimized.
The difficulty of building an OS for a device like this depends on the scope. For something akin to System 7, which was so minimal that it was barely an OS, the scope is quite minimal. An OS based on Linux like is used by many cheap (~$50) handheld emulator devices would probably not be all that onerous to build.
I dunno, I'm just not too enthused with the heaviness and baggage of Android, which no amount of customization can fix.
This strikes me as extremely optimistic.
Here's the FAQ for graphene OS, one of the actually open source mobile OS's (also based on android I believe) out there:
https://grapheneos.org/faq
There's a LOT of oof on there if you're shooting for any sort of viable commercial product. Hardware doesn't pay for itself.
It's worth noting, though, that many of the troubles faced by projects like grapheneOS stem from two things: supporting a large number of devices and keeping old manufacturer-provided driver binaries working on each new version of Android that comes out.
A more specialized single-device OS avoids most the first problem and if the manufacturer makes sure to provide the source for the device's drivers alongside the OS, the latter doesn't have to be a problem.
GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixel phones
It’s still more devices than a hypothetical bespoke OS for a device by a shuttered company would support. The situation that’s been discussed thus far involves the company going under after 1-2 revisions.
I think the physical keyboard is there by necessity due to the e-ink display. Not sure if you've ever tried typing on a Kindle's e-ink touchscreen, but it's frustrating if you're a moderately fast typer on a phone. The refresh rate just doesn't keep up fast enough to catch typos quickly and make changes. So while it adds a mechanical failure point, I do think it probably provides a better user experience.
Now if you're not someone who types on your phone much, I totally agree, a touch screen only version would be great. And honestly it would be tempeting to get one as a mini e-reader (as someone who strongly prefers reading on e-ink rather than a screen). If I could get a little phone sized e-reader that would be lovely.
Good point, and yeah thinking about it typing on my Kobo isn't a great experience. As you noted though may still be a good option for some people.
You can go a long way with a custom launcher for Android and some tweaks if you want to go really deep. As far as what you're looking for, a old school flip phone might get you part of the way there. Maybe something closer to a Kindle, or a custom project with a Raspberry Pi, but Android is something of a lowest common denominator with these sorts of projects, like Kobo or the Boox Palma if you want a handheld ereader. cc: @kingofsnake , @Englerdy
The Boox Palma is pretty close to what I was thinking! Great recommendation. Still pretty expensive though. I have a Kindle Paper White that I love, but it lives at home or in my bag when I travel. I'm too afraid to forget it at work and not have it when I want to read at home. I'd like something kind of a cheap and smart phone size as an everyday carry to toss in my pocket or backpack for lunch or breaks. Honestly even something that connected to my phone and was driven by it could work pretty well if that was a lower cost route (which I just did a bit of searching and regretably that doesn't appear to be much of a product either, found a few but they're also pretty pricey and don't look like they're easy to get in the US).
I think the light phone is similar to what you're describing: https://www.thelightphone.com/
That’s much closer yes, but durability might be a concern with the OLED screen panel (which can burn in) and it doesn’t look like the software is open.
The sales pitch about mental health and screen time, all while having Reddit preloaded, and access to the app store (and therefore all the other unhealthy apps and habits that cell phones provide) tells me everything I need to know about the product and it's makers.
Also, what's the point of having a camera on an E-Ink device? You want to go minimal, commit to it and don't even feature the camera.
Soo, minimalist phone to minimize phone addiction, but they are kinda copying the key feature that earned BlackBerry the name "CrackBerry", i.e. the physical keyboard. The logo is pretty similar too.
400-500 seems expensive for a device with "less" features too.
Those kinds of devices pop up every few years, and I don't really get the point.
Some of those devices can't do anything except for basic stuff like phone calls or SMS, in which case it's basically just an e-ink Nokia phone for 10x the price
The other type of those devices (like this one) support full Android, but then it's basically just a very low-end Android device with a monochrome screen, so again, I don't see why you'd pay a higher price for that. If you wanted to use your phone in monochrome, you could just enable that on any phone.
MKBHD has a video on those types of phones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyurkqaddc
A regular phone set to monochrome is very different from e-ink. The temptation to turn it off is very real
Nice, but too expensive for something that does less.
Some may consider multi day battery life more.
Some may, but not enough for this thing to survive.
NGL I'm seriously considering this. The biggest loss would be being able to pull up youtube on a whim.
It has full Play Store support, so you could download it that way and just use it as an audio player.
those keys look like they're primed to pop off if you use a pocket. Neat idea, but it just isn't there.
Slap "200€" on it and I'll buy it without even thinking about it. Hell, I would cough up 250€. But for this price, it is simply too much.
If they made budget option with half the RAM, storage and slower SoC and thus made it to around 200€ I would still buy it. I always wanted phone with e-paper screen and I can live with budget phones (hardware-wise) and I can pay extra for extra features, but I don't need phone on the higher end (which this one is for me).
I use Nokia G22 as my phone now, which is kinda slow and small resolution and yada yada, but I paid extra for the repairability - I can disassemble the phone without using heat gun or cracking glass back or whatever. Yes, it does have just IP52 (I believe), but I come from times where all the phones were like that and I don't go swimming with my phone in my pocket, so who cares.
If this phone was in my price bracket, it would be no-brainer, I'm all in for this kind of ideas, but they always trip somewhere and make it too expensive for it being just experimental phone.
Looks like my old Kindle. I can't tell how small those keys are, but I suspect I'd have trouble using them. Sigh, I miss T9. Maybe I'll try it on an app, though that'll miss out on being able to touch type.
I've been in the market for a new digital audio player that lives outside of my phone, and as I haven't looked for one in the last decade, I'm learning that there's a whole collection of people who pair DAP Android players with dumb phones.
This looks more like Kobo meets ebook reader, but it has my attention. If I can support handset creators that aren't Google or Apple affiliated, I'm in
If I wasn't committed to having my Pixel 8 for its full Android support timefrime I would've bought one of these. I sorta have the phone usage issue this is targeting, but don't want to forsake my $800 investment. I'm stoked to see it's full Android, but just don't know if it would work for me.
I like the physical keyboard, though I wish it was detachable.
I've been following The Light Phone (another minimalist phone) for years and hoping that it would meet my needs. Version III is coming out, and it's going up in price (currently $499, but MSRP is $799) while Version II is only $299. It's hard to justify when you already have a phone that does everything you want/need.
I think going the android route makes a lot of sense when you look at the light phone. You are beholden to what they will support. From the Light Phone FAQ:
Hopefully the Daylight will sell well, and they make a palm/phone sized version. The 60fps display will be a game changer for these minimalist devices.
$500?! I wanted to ditch my smartphone and I got a $20 TCL Flip from amazon.
If anyone is interested in getting a dumbphone I highly recommend this website
For that price they can go fuck themselves.