Sorry, I got through about half the article and needed to comment a bit. Re. Copper “welding” vs aluminum in heat pumps. First off, are they welding copper or brazing it? Feels weird to get the...
Exemplary
Sorry, I got through about half the article and needed to comment a bit.
Re. Copper “welding” vs aluminum in heat pumps. First off, are they welding copper or brazing it? Feels weird to get the terminology wrong in an article trying to factually define the factors which make appliances fail more often. Assuming it’s a typo, then agreed that welding aluminum is harder, but not impossible? It really depends on the material thickness, and what sort of repair people are talking about. Speaking of which:
Why are we ignoring the availability of replacement parts? The thirty year old fridge didn’t last that long without a repair visit or two; there was a time where you could buy replacement parts for your machines. Nowadays it’s cheaper to huck the whole microwave into the bin when a capacitor goes, since the manufacturer has long since abandoned that model and made all subsequent ones backwards incompatible. That’s a choice: we could be prioritizing longevity and features, but companies are not providing an option for the market to select for themselves.
Adding microcontrollers and PCBs makes the machine more complicated, but it doesn’t necessarily make it any less repairable. All those sensors could be replaceable, and all those main boards could be documented or modularized. Companies have elected not to do so, since it’s marginally cheaper (shaving pennies off your BOM for a thousand dollar product is not unheard of) and they’re financially incentivized to sell people disposable trash (see the section on “consumers are to blame :’(“ for details).
I guess I’ll finish this article after work, but it boils my blood to see these sorts of apologetic, surface level takes on the modern state of consumer goods manufacturing. It would be great if journalists could consider whether the half dozen companies (butt-pulled number; I’ll find quoted later) that benefit dramatically from the current abysmal state of affairs “might” have had some incentive to heavily propagandize and lobby for it. These choices don’t happen in a vacuum, by accident — but equally there (probably) isn’t a shadowy cabal of billionaires plotting how to make everyone’s washing machines break 0.01% faster. Ideally these sorts of articles would talk about the systemic incentives and the individual steps made that make the current state of affairs likely, and portraying (or refuting) it in a comprehensible fashion for a lay audience (ie journalism).
Edit: made it a bit further over my lunch break. It looks like they go partway towards addressing the repairability concern:
One key way in which product designers lower material costs without hurting performance is by reducing repairability, said Alex Lobos of the Rochester Institute of Technology. For instance, they may use one large modular polymer or plastic component rather than 15 smaller pieces that must be screwed together, he said, or use heavy-duty glue as a fastener instead of screws.
To be clear about the sorts of costs, here: it’s less than a dime per screw. Your overall BOM will be higher, but we’re not talking anywhere near the 100% cost increase implied by the article by comparing purchase power adjusted appliance costs over the last few decades.
On this point, I have a bunch of plastic/glass drawers and shelves in my fridge that have cracked. I replace a couple of them a few years ago, at ~$100 each. Some have cracked again, and others...
Why are we ignoring the availability of replacement parts? The thirty year old fridge didn’t last that long without a repair visit or two; there was a time where you could buy replacement parts for your machines. Nowadays it’s cheaper to huck the whole microwave into the bin when a capacitor goes, since the manufacturer has long since abandoned that model and made all subsequent ones backwards incompatible. That’s a choice: we could be prioritizing longevity and features, but companies are not providing an option for the market to select for themselves.
On this point, I have a bunch of plastic/glass drawers and shelves in my fridge that have cracked. I replace a couple of them a few years ago, at ~$100 each. Some have cracked again, and others have cracked, too. It's at the point where I'm looking at $500-$800 for just new plastic shelves. It's sad because it otherwise works fine, and I had replaced a failing thermostat ~5 years ago to keep it running. I can't keep justifying the expense, so I'm in the market for a new fridge instead. I wish someone made reasonably priced custom sized metal wire replacement shelves, but I can't find anything.
Depending on the thickness and size, and how fiddly the mounts are, getting some plexiglass/acrylic sheets cut to size at a hardware store might be a cheaper alternative (still not super cheap)
Depending on the thickness and size, and how fiddly the mounts are, getting some plexiglass/acrylic sheets cut to size at a hardware store might be a cheaper alternative (still not super cheap)
Oof, that sucks. Maybe large sheet trays from a restaurant supply store, if you can find one that fits. Won’t look the best and will block the internal light, but they’re dirt cheap, can find big...
Oof, that sucks. Maybe large sheet trays from a restaurant supply store, if you can find one that fits. Won’t look the best and will block the internal light, but they’re dirt cheap, can find big ones, and are more than strong enough to hold a large turkey in the middle without bending.
I have gotten custom glass tabletops made before. A 20x24 inch was in the neighborhood of $60 to $80. And they may last longer than the manufacturer shelves.
I have gotten custom glass tabletops made before. A 20x24 inch was in the neighborhood of $60 to $80. And they may last longer than the manufacturer shelves.
If it’s just the labor cost I can cut custom acrylic for you and ship it to you if you’d like. I have access to an industrial laser cutter for basically free. Just pay for materials and shipping....
If it’s just the labor cost I can cut custom acrylic for you and ship it to you if you’d like. I have access to an industrial laser cutter for basically free. Just pay for materials and shipping. I’m in California for context.
3D materials that are not super thick tend to be super weak, especially food safe versions, not something I would put on my fridge because they would break asap
3D materials that are not super thick tend to be super weak, especially food safe versions, not something I would put on my fridge because they would break asap
I have a story about a recent appliance replacement. We had a dishwasher that simply stopped working about a year after the extended warranty ended. The behavior made me think that it was probably...
I have a story about a recent appliance replacement.
We had a dishwasher that simply stopped working about a year after the extended warranty ended. The behavior made me think that it was probably repairable, but I estimated about $300 for the repair based on previous experience. The parts are expensive but the labor is more. So I just bought a new dishwasher for $700 with a 5 year warranty. I think my choice is very reasonable given the uncertainty of the long term reliability of the appliance after the repair. Frankly it’s unpleasant to deal with repair people, they are often rude and I’ve caught them overcharging or reporting fake issues.
I most likely could have figured it out by myself if money was way more valuable to me than time. But it mostly isn’t.
When I was a little kid, people still used to repair televisions. We had an old one in a big wooden cabinet and someone would come every year and replace tubes or something. I don’t miss that either, old tvs were crappy and frequently breaking.
My grandfather ran a TV repair shop so I have a lot of warm memories around that. I used to hang out in the shop with him sometimes and it was just full of half assembled TVs and random circuit...
My grandfather ran a TV repair shop so I have a lot of warm memories around that. I used to hang out in the shop with him sometimes and it was just full of half assembled TVs and random circuit boards and stuff. I thought it was the coolest place on earth, lol.
Although companies are partially to blame, the fault also lies with the unintended consequences of government regulations, price wars driven by global trade, and people’s own desire for increasingly sophisticated features requiring complex components that are far more likely to fail.
Maybe even more surprising, you can still find durable appliances that can last for decades — but only if you are willing to make certain trade-offs.
...
The available evidence suggests that appliance lifespans have decreased only modestly over the past few decades. Recent research from the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers trade group shows that in 2010 most appliances lasted from 11 to 16 years. By 2019, those numbers had dropped, to a range of nine to 14 years. (In some cases, such as for gas ranges and dryers, the lifespans actually increased.)
...
Every appliance service technician I spoke to — each with decades of experience repairing machines from multiple brands — immediately blamed federal regulations for water and energy efficiency for most frustrations with modern appliances.
Regulations have improved appliances by many measures: They’ve removed leaky pilot lights in gas stoves, replaced ozone-depleting freon in refrigerators, prevented cooktop fires and burns through safety sensors and better insulation, and reduced water and power used by washers and dishwashers exponentially, saving consumers money.
But on top of that, they have generally added layers of complexity to appliances that had previously stayed the same for decades, said Zilka, the repair-industry veteran.
...
Appliances are even cheaper than they were 50 years ago, when adjusted for inflation, and that also affects longevity, said Petrino Ball.
In 1972, Sears sold a clothes washer for $220 and a dryer for $90, per 2022 research by AARP Magazine. That’s about $2,389 in 2025, adjusted for inflation. Today you can get a washer-and-dryer pair on sale from Sears for around $1,200.
...
My investigation did reveal that if you want an appliance that will last more than a decade, you have two options: Go low or go high.
Stripped-down, fully analog, easy-to-repair appliances at the low end of the price spectrum are more durable because they are mostly mechanical, with few features — or really any extras at all — and far fewer parts that will break. These include some basic top-freezer fridges, freestanding ranges, and top-loading washing machines.
...
Conversely, at the high end of the price spectrum — as in, the most expensive appliances available, often with five- or even six-figure price tags — I found that luxury appliances also tend to have a longer lifespan.
I'll definitely vote for the stripped down low end appliance any day. We own at least half a dozen sets of washers, dryers, fridges, stoves and dishwashers for our rentals. I buy the most basic...
I'll definitely vote for the stripped down low end appliance any day. We own at least half a dozen sets of washers, dryers, fridges, stoves and dishwashers for our rentals. I buy the most basic Whirlpool/Amana/Sears appliances I can because its far cheaper to just toss them if they break than pay the repair guy. Plus the old school top load washing machines are nearly indestructible. I have several that have gone over 10 years without a service call. Forget those silly bluetooth connected, 18 button, 500 combinations for washers and dryers. Washed is washed and dry is dry, it doesnt need bluetooth.
It’s different because it’s just us, but I will at least try to repair it myself before buying a new one. We had a front loader that broke because it was so unbalanced that it broke one of the...
It’s different because it’s just us, but I will at least try to repair it myself before buying a new one. We had a front loader that broke because it was so unbalanced that it broke one of the springs holding up the tub. Arguably user error on our part. We did try to repair it by replacing the spring, but it didn’t work right afterwards.
We had better luck fixing an old LG front load. The bearing it used was cheap and the seal on it broke, eventually causing it to rust. Had to take the entire thing apart to replace it, but the...
We had better luck fixing an old LG front load. The bearing it used was cheap and the seal on it broke, eventually causing it to rust.
Had to take the entire thing apart to replace it, but the bearing we replaced it with is quality and should last forever.
Its been maybe four years since we replaced it and it was about ten years old when we did that, so far so good.
Also replaced both the computer and the heating element on the dryer, same age LG old thing. Also going well.
I bought a Speed Queen TC5 a few years ago. It's supposed to be a favorite of landlords. Not cheap, but a stripped down and basic top loader. Supposedly, all the money goes into reliability...
I bought a Speed Queen TC5 a few years ago. It's supposed to be a favorite of landlords. Not cheap, but a stripped down and basic top loader. Supposedly, all the money goes into reliability instead of features. They have a 5 year warranty. Speed Queen claims they should last 25 years with typical use.
If you use a clothesline then bluetooth would be quite useful to alert you exactly when the washing is ready to put out (so that it gets lots of sunlight and can be taken off the line well before...
Washed is washed and dry is dry, it doesnt need bluetooth.
If you use a clothesline then bluetooth would be quite useful to alert you exactly when the washing is ready to put out (so that it gets lots of sunlight and can be taken off the line well before sunset).
I would love a good washing machine with bluetooth, I just can't find one that I'm confident isn't proprietary future e-waste.
I guess the author wanted the 1:1 comparison, but it's kinda funny to mention buying anything at Sears in 2025. When there are only a handful of stores left, and there's basically no hope...
I guess the author wanted the 1:1 comparison, but it's kinda funny to mention buying anything at Sears in 2025. When there are only a handful of stores left, and there's basically no hope remaining for them.
Nothing will last forever. The solution is maintanence and repair. That however has several neccesary prerequisites: availability of parts availability of technical manuals, not repair hostile...
Nothing will last forever. The solution is maintanence and repair. That however has several neccesary prerequisites:
availability of parts
availability of technical manuals, not repair hostile manufacturing practices and ideally both
for computer controlled devices additionally - availability of stable self contained firmware or ability to load open source ones
standards, in sw protocols, in hw connections
network of independent repair shops which will follow naturally if above is met
Guess which the consumer can affect. It would be nice if more people prioritized longevity and repairability but there is near to none to be had in the mainstream selection.
As an anecdote I had to replace a very simple coffee pot because I left it on the stove for too long and eventually after months the anti rust coating on the lower half failed because of it. It would be a trivial replacement but I simply could not find the part and that is not the only instance where a single failed part forced a purchase on very simple device.
Sorry, I got through about half the article and needed to comment a bit.
Re. Copper “welding” vs aluminum in heat pumps. First off, are they welding copper or brazing it? Feels weird to get the terminology wrong in an article trying to factually define the factors which make appliances fail more often. Assuming it’s a typo, then agreed that welding aluminum is harder, but not impossible? It really depends on the material thickness, and what sort of repair people are talking about. Speaking of which:
Why are we ignoring the availability of replacement parts? The thirty year old fridge didn’t last that long without a repair visit or two; there was a time where you could buy replacement parts for your machines. Nowadays it’s cheaper to huck the whole microwave into the bin when a capacitor goes, since the manufacturer has long since abandoned that model and made all subsequent ones backwards incompatible. That’s a choice: we could be prioritizing longevity and features, but companies are not providing an option for the market to select for themselves.
Adding microcontrollers and PCBs makes the machine more complicated, but it doesn’t necessarily make it any less repairable. All those sensors could be replaceable, and all those main boards could be documented or modularized. Companies have elected not to do so, since it’s marginally cheaper (shaving pennies off your BOM for a thousand dollar product is not unheard of) and they’re financially incentivized to sell people disposable trash (see the section on “consumers are to blame :’(“ for details).
I guess I’ll finish this article after work, but it boils my blood to see these sorts of apologetic, surface level takes on the modern state of consumer goods manufacturing. It would be great if journalists could consider whether the half dozen companies (butt-pulled number; I’ll find quoted later) that benefit dramatically from the current abysmal state of affairs “might” have had some incentive to heavily propagandize and lobby for it. These choices don’t happen in a vacuum, by accident — but equally there (probably) isn’t a shadowy cabal of billionaires plotting how to make everyone’s washing machines break 0.01% faster. Ideally these sorts of articles would talk about the systemic incentives and the individual steps made that make the current state of affairs likely, and portraying (or refuting) it in a comprehensible fashion for a lay audience (ie journalism).
Edit: made it a bit further over my lunch break. It looks like they go partway towards addressing the repairability concern:
To be clear about the sorts of costs, here: it’s less than a dime per screw. Your overall BOM will be higher, but we’re not talking anywhere near the 100% cost increase implied by the article by comparing purchase power adjusted appliance costs over the last few decades.
On this point, I have a bunch of plastic/glass drawers and shelves in my fridge that have cracked. I replace a couple of them a few years ago, at ~$100 each. Some have cracked again, and others have cracked, too. It's at the point where I'm looking at $500-$800 for just new plastic shelves. It's sad because it otherwise works fine, and I had replaced a failing thermostat ~5 years ago to keep it running. I can't keep justifying the expense, so I'm in the market for a new fridge instead. I wish someone made reasonably priced custom sized metal wire replacement shelves, but I can't find anything.
Depending on the thickness and size, and how fiddly the mounts are, getting some plexiglass/acrylic sheets cut to size at a hardware store might be a cheaper alternative (still not super cheap)
Last time I looked at acrylic sheets it would not be cheaper, it's crazy.
Oof, that sucks. Maybe large sheet trays from a restaurant supply store, if you can find one that fits. Won’t look the best and will block the internal light, but they’re dirt cheap, can find big ones, and are more than strong enough to hold a large turkey in the middle without bending.
I have gotten custom glass tabletops made before. A 20x24 inch was in the neighborhood of $60 to $80. And they may last longer than the manufacturer shelves.
If it’s just the labor cost I can cut custom acrylic for you and ship it to you if you’d like. I have access to an industrial laser cutter for basically free. Just pay for materials and shipping. I’m in California for context.
Could you 3D print something to fit? Might be a substantially cheaper replacement part
3D materials that are not super thick tend to be super weak, especially food safe versions, not something I would put on my fridge because they would break asap
Depending on where the cracks are, I've had good results repairing/ rebuilding things in the fridge with Sugru.
I have a story about a recent appliance replacement.
We had a dishwasher that simply stopped working about a year after the extended warranty ended. The behavior made me think that it was probably repairable, but I estimated about $300 for the repair based on previous experience. The parts are expensive but the labor is more. So I just bought a new dishwasher for $700 with a 5 year warranty. I think my choice is very reasonable given the uncertainty of the long term reliability of the appliance after the repair. Frankly it’s unpleasant to deal with repair people, they are often rude and I’ve caught them overcharging or reporting fake issues.
I most likely could have figured it out by myself if money was way more valuable to me than time. But it mostly isn’t.
When I was a little kid, people still used to repair televisions. We had an old one in a big wooden cabinet and someone would come every year and replace tubes or something. I don’t miss that either, old tvs were crappy and frequently breaking.
My grandfather ran a TV repair shop so I have a lot of warm memories around that. I used to hang out in the shop with him sometimes and it was just full of half assembled TVs and random circuit boards and stuff. I thought it was the coolest place on earth, lol.
From the article:
...
...
...
...
...
I'll definitely vote for the stripped down low end appliance any day. We own at least half a dozen sets of washers, dryers, fridges, stoves and dishwashers for our rentals. I buy the most basic Whirlpool/Amana/Sears appliances I can because its far cheaper to just toss them if they break than pay the repair guy. Plus the old school top load washing machines are nearly indestructible. I have several that have gone over 10 years without a service call. Forget those silly bluetooth connected, 18 button, 500 combinations for washers and dryers. Washed is washed and dry is dry, it doesnt need bluetooth.
It’s different because it’s just us, but I will at least try to repair it myself before buying a new one. We had a front loader that broke because it was so unbalanced that it broke one of the springs holding up the tub. Arguably user error on our part. We did try to repair it by replacing the spring, but it didn’t work right afterwards.
We had better luck fixing an old LG front load. The bearing it used was cheap and the seal on it broke, eventually causing it to rust.
Had to take the entire thing apart to replace it, but the bearing we replaced it with is quality and should last forever.
Its been maybe four years since we replaced it and it was about ten years old when we did that, so far so good.
Also replaced both the computer and the heating element on the dryer, same age LG old thing. Also going well.
I bought a Speed Queen TC5 a few years ago. It's supposed to be a favorite of landlords. Not cheap, but a stripped down and basic top loader. Supposedly, all the money goes into reliability instead of features. They have a 5 year warranty. Speed Queen claims they should last 25 years with typical use.
If you use a clothesline then bluetooth would be quite useful to alert you exactly when the washing is ready to put out (so that it gets lots of sunlight and can be taken off the line well before sunset).
I would love a good washing machine with bluetooth, I just can't find one that I'm confident isn't proprietary future e-waste.
I guess the author wanted the 1:1 comparison, but it's kinda funny to mention buying anything at Sears in 2025. When there are only a handful of stores left, and there's basically no hope remaining for them.
This reads like propaganda to normalize Planned Obsolescence.
Nothing will last forever. The solution is maintanence and repair. That however has several neccesary prerequisites:
Guess which the consumer can affect. It would be nice if more people prioritized longevity and repairability but there is near to none to be had in the mainstream selection.
As an anecdote I had to replace a very simple coffee pot because I left it on the stove for too long and eventually after months the anti rust coating on the lower half failed because of it. It would be a trivial replacement but I simply could not find the part and that is not the only instance where a single failed part forced a purchase on very simple device.