66 votes

Microsoft intercepting Firefox and Chrome installation on Windows 10

65 comments

  1. [25]
    cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    First they implement an obnoxious nag screen when you try to change your default browser to anything other than Edge, now this. FFS Microsoft, why do you keep doing this annoying crap over and...

    First they implement an obnoxious nag screen when you try to change your default browser to anything other than Edge, now this. FFS Microsoft, why do you keep doing this annoying crap over and over again and pissing off your paying customers, especially over your crappy browser that nobody (in their right mind) likes or wants to use? Will they never learn?

    This sort of crap, amongst many other reasons (e.g. pre-intalling apps/games with no option to not install them, crappy tablet style start menu, ads in said crappy start menu, etc) is why I have slowly been migrating over to Linux and won't look back when I am finally done, other than to game occasionally. Although even that is changing rather rapidly and likely to continue, especially now thanks to Valve/Steam Proton, too.

    30 votes
    1. [10]
      Krael
      Link Parent
      Because the vast, vast majority of people will just grit their teeth and deal with it.

      why do you keep doing this annoying crap over and over again and pissing off your paying customers

      Because the vast, vast majority of people will just grit their teeth and deal with it.

      25 votes
      1. [9]
        cfabbro
        Link Parent
        Sure, but the tide slowly turns and Linux is becoming more and more viable as a complete replacement with each passing year. Customer good will and brand loyalty is also something that is hard to...

        Sure, but the tide slowly turns and Linux is becoming more and more viable as a complete replacement with each passing year. Customer good will and brand loyalty is also something that is hard to earn but easy to lose.

        13 votes
        1. [4]
          Kraetos
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Linux will never supplant Windows as the de facto standard OS for desktop personal computers. Windows will always have a strong presence in corporate environments where most people come to work...

          Linux will never supplant Windows as the de facto standard OS for desktop personal computers. Windows will always have a strong presence in corporate environments where most people come to work every day and use nothing but Office and a web browser, and maybe a few specialty professional applications pertaining to whatever industry their company is in. The world of corporate IT is just too dependent on AD to use anything else for their dime-a-dozen desktops and notebooks.

          However, "desktop personal computers" will be reduced to niche status by smartphones and tablets. Android is already the most popular OS in the world. This trend is accelerating, not decelerating. "Desktop computers" will vanish from most households, relegated to offices and a few specific hobbies, like PC gaming.

          5 votes
          1. [3]
            Amarok
            Link Parent
            Sad but true. There are a number of AD replacements in the linux world, but none of them can scale anywhere near as well as Microsoft's offerings without entering science project territory, and...

            corporate IT is just too dependent on AD

            Sad but true. There are a number of AD replacements in the linux world, but none of them can scale anywhere near as well as Microsoft's offerings without entering science project territory, and forget about 'enterprise support' for that stuff. If you're a small business it's not that hard to roll your own identity services. If you're a multinational corporation with tens of thousands of users, your only real choice is Microsoft. They've locked down that market segment completely.

            It's the management tools, really. Microsoft makes it very easy and very lazy to manage tens of thousands of users, then extend that identity/security model into every single product on the market, even open source ones and those from other vendors. All of it inter-operates with AD now.

            5 votes
            1. [2]
              teaearlgraycold
              Link Parent
              Would hooking a Windows AD server into Linux clients be a viable alternative?

              Would hooking a Windows AD server into Linux clients be a viable alternative?

              1. Crespyl
                Link Parent
                It can be done, and I want to say Redhat and the like sometimes offer official support for going either way, but MS will never be a fan and there's always some new set of hoops to jump through to...

                It can be done, and I want to say Redhat and the like sometimes offer official support for going either way, but MS will never be a fan and there's always some new set of hoops to jump through to get everything working just right.

                There's always some intranet or special "secure" app that expects very specific behavior from the auth clients and servers. The worst (IME) is trying to support SSO web services that expect the browser to forward credentials from your desktop session. There's just too many moving pieces to make scaling beyond a small/mid-size organization very practical.

        2. [4]
          Qis
          Link Parent
          Got any stats to back that up, or are you being a fan? Because tides turn very quickly, nearly twice a day.

          Got any stats to back that up, or are you being a fan? Because tides turn very quickly, nearly twice a day.

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            spctrvl
            Link Parent
            Stats on Linux becoming a more viable desktop OS? What do you mean? That's not really a statistical thing.

            Stats on Linux becoming a more viable desktop OS? What do you mean? That's not really a statistical thing.

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              balooga
              Link Parent
              I think it was meant to be a joke about the frequency of tides.

              I think it was meant to be a joke about the frequency of tides.

              7 votes
              1. spctrvl
                Link Parent
                Ah. Yeah, for some reason that comment is just not parsing for me, that's why I asked for clarification.

                Ah. Yeah, for some reason that comment is just not parsing for me, that's why I asked for clarification.

                1 vote
    2. [3]
      BuckeyeSundae
      Link Parent
      I've hated Microsoft for decades, but have simultaneously felt trapped as a PC gamer into needing to rely on the Windows operating system for games. I just now realized I hadn't checked in on how...

      I've hated Microsoft for decades, but have simultaneously felt trapped as a PC gamer into needing to rely on the Windows operating system for games. I just now realized I hadn't checked in on how adaptation was going in a few years. I may finally bite the bullet and start moving over to Linux myself.

      8 votes
      1. [2]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yeah, that was my biggest issue as well and the only reason I have stuck with MS as long as I have. However Steam on Linux has a decent native library now and between that and Wine/Proton+DXVK...

        Yeah, that was my biggest issue as well and the only reason I have stuck with MS as long as I have. However Steam on Linux has a decent native library now and between that and Wine/Proton+DXVK there isn't a whole lot of games that I want to play on Linux but can't. For the few that still exist I will just keep a dual-boot windows install as backup, but even that may not be strictly necessary for much longer thanks to GPU passthrough support in VMs getting so much better. I really wish I had looked in to that before building my new comp though, since my new Micro-ATX build just doesn't have the room for multiple GPUs even though I own several spare ones that would have been perfect for Linux were I able to put them in the same comp as my 980Ti passed through to a Windows VM.

        p.s. Linus Tech Tips did a decent overview for gaming on Linux a few months ago that you might want to check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgI1mkx6iw

        7 votes
        1. alexandre9099
          Link Parent
          I deleted my windows installation and put it inside a VM with passthrough, when installed outside of a VM windows breaks everything it finds... on every fcking windows update i had to reinstall...

          dual-boot windows

          I deleted my windows installation and put it inside a VM with passthrough, when installed outside of a VM windows breaks everything it finds... on every fcking windows update i had to reinstall grub cause windows decided to break it.

          My problem is not really Microsoft, it is Oculus, which doesn't give a shit about it's linux costumers

          6 votes
    3. [10]
      nsz
      Link Parent
      I use Edge, you would not believe how annoying it is to use any service by google on it. Pretty much every page has a popup telling me it's better to use chrome.

      I use Edge, you would not believe how annoying it is to use any service by google on it. Pretty much every page has a popup telling me it's better to use chrome.

      6 votes
      1. [9]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I use Firefox and have never once seen a popup on google services telling me to use Chrome. I suspect they tell you to use Chrome over Edge because Chrome is legitimately better for their...

        I use Firefox and have never once seen a popup on google services telling me to use Chrome. I suspect they tell you to use Chrome over Edge because Chrome is legitimately better for their products. Edge is seriously lacking in their implementation of a lot of modern web standards and because of this google's services probably need to serve you a special regressive feature version of them that will actually work on it... hence the warning popups.

        Google (and every other web developer on the planet) absolutely hates having to waste time developing special workarounds just for IE and Edge users. Tildes is even experiencing the same problem thanks to Edge not supporting the summary element despite almost every other browser having it. Which begs the question.... why the heck are you using Edge? It's terrible! :P

        12 votes
        1. [7]
          nsz
          Link Parent
          I will sometimes get it on the google search page. I made the switch to Edge because it runs much faster on my laptop and responds really well with the trackpad. Plus I hate having those chrome...

          I will sometimes get it on the google search page. I made the switch to Edge because it runs much faster on my laptop and responds really well with the trackpad. Plus I hate having those chrome gremlins in the taskmanager eating away at my system resources even when chrome is closed.

          I don't doubt that chrome is better for google stuff, it's just disappointing they are making deliberate decisions to slow down their services on competing browsers.

          Yeah I noticed the summaries being doubled up in some places, mentioned it in a talk thread and someone responded that they added it as an issue on GitHub.

          It feels like Edge is becoming what chrome was, light weight and fast, and that's weird.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            That was me. I forgot it was you that mentioned the issue too. ;) If performance and lightweight is your primary concern, why not use Firefox or even something like Pale Moon, which is based on a...

            someone responded that they added it as an issue on GitHub.

            That was me. I forgot it was you that mentioned the issue too. ;) If performance and lightweight is your primary concern, why not use Firefox or even something like Pale Moon, which is based on a stripped down fork of the Firefox engine? Almost anything will be better than Edge at this point, especially in terms of web standards support.

            3 votes
            1. nsz
              Link Parent
              aha, well hello. That is really interesting, I'll download and check it out.

              aha, well hello.

              That is really interesting, I'll download and check it out.

              1 vote
          2. [4]
            alexandre9099
            Link Parent
            what you mean by that? Do you mean those smooth animations while scrolling the page? If so i think it comes enabled by default

            and responds really well with the trackpad.

            what you mean by that? Do you mean those smooth animations while scrolling the page? If so i think it comes enabled by default

            1 vote
            1. [3]
              nsz
              Link Parent
              Zooming in and out , and it does not attempt to redraw the page (at least for most pages some just try to be far too smart for their own good), it's more like zooming and panning a pdf as opposed...

              Zooming in and out , and it does not attempt to redraw the page (at least for most pages some just try to be far too smart for their own good), it's more like zooming and panning a pdf as opposed to ctrl +/-, it's really nice to have on a small laptop screen. Chrome will limit the zoomed panning to just one axis at a time, which feels frustrating, and will hitch more often, at least it was while I was testing it ~ 6 months ago when I made the switch to Edge.

              I can two finger swipe to go backwards/forwards, This is not a system setting so it's unique to Edge. The accompanying animation makes using the thing easy, it kind of gives you warning of what's going to happen so it's possible to cancel if that's not what you intended. I also find my self fidgeting with it all the time, which kind of keeps my focus on the article I am reading vs something on my desk

              Then I have custom shortcuts setup where three finger swipe left/right will cycle tabs, down closes a tab, up reopens a closed tabs and a three finger tap opens a new tab. My custom shortcuts will work in chrome, as it's just doing shift+tab etc, but the behaviour sometimes glitchy in chrome, no idea why but it does (My theory is it has something to do with where the cursors is? not exactly sure).

              TL;DR Edge feels smoother to use, it hitches less when zooming/panning and using custom shortcuts.

              2 votes
              1. alexandre9099
                Link Parent
                well, those are actually good points, but to me, those features are useless (the zoom is kinda good, firefox for example on tildes, if zoomed, the side pannel collapses and goes to mobile view,...

                well, those are actually good points, but to me, those features are useless (the zoom is kinda good, firefox for example on tildes, if zoomed, the side pannel collapses and goes to mobile view, though there is/was some tool on windows that did zoom some part of the screen, IIRC it was the mouse area), even if i wanted to use edge i couldn't because i'm on linux and IIRC edge is one of those universal windows applications that are not yet supported in wine

                2 votes
              2. Akir
                Link Parent
                I agree, that zooming feature is probably the best part of Edge. The good news is that the Firefox dev team is working on implementing something simelar, so we should see smooth zooming there...

                I agree, that zooming feature is probably the best part of Edge.

                The good news is that the Firefox dev team is working on implementing something simelar, so we should see smooth zooming there eventually.

                2 votes
        2. bme
          Link Parent
          Google is trying to make chrome the new ie6 and it's super aggravating. Google meet still works terribly and is marked as experimental on FF. It's been out for over a year. I have to keep chrome...

          Google is trying to make chrome the new ie6 and it's super aggravating. Google meet still works terribly and is marked as experimental on FF. It's been out for over a year. I have to keep chrome installed for all kinds of stuff that's awful on other browsers. Like inbox (although given that google is killing that product I guess that will resolve itself next year). If Microsoft was doing it people would be livid, and rightly so.

          2 votes
    4. ShrubOfRegret
      Link Parent
      Oh dang, I'm glad you brought up Proton. I've been doing a lot of programming lately, so I've been almost exclusively on Linux out of convenience. I knew a number of games explicitly had Linux...

      Oh dang, I'm glad you brought up Proton. I've been doing a lot of programming lately, so I've been almost exclusively on Linux out of convenience. I knew a number of games explicitly had Linux support, but never noticed that Valve basically included WINE now. Looks like I have some games to test now.

      With game support all that's stopping me from switching permanently is audio software that actually works. I've spent countless hours on research, but nothing works. In case an expert on this is randomly here, I'm working with PulseAudio on Kubuntu. I have two main issues. The first is that my microphone audio is super crackle-y. Basically no point in ever using voice chat because of it. The second is that Pulse refuses to honor my default device. It always sets things to use my MOBO's audio instead of running through my GPU's audio output.

      2 votes
  2. [3]
    s4b3r6
    Link
    This kind of thing makes me think they've forgotten about the last time they tried: US vs MS, 2001, Commission vs MS. This clear antitrust behaviour... But whether it makes it into mainline...

    This kind of thing makes me think they've forgotten about the last time they tried: US vs MS, 2001, Commission vs MS.

    This clear antitrust behaviour... But whether it makes it into mainline Windows is another thing.

    23 votes
    1. [2]
      Rocket_Man
      Link Parent
      To be fair it seems like societies standards have changed considerably and this kind of thing isn't a big deal anymore.

      To be fair it seems like societies standards have changed considerably and this kind of thing isn't a big deal anymore.

      9 votes
      1. s4b3r6
        Link Parent
        Microsoft still packages Windows N versions for the EU, to comply with previous rulings. In 2013, they were fined 561 million euros for dropping the browser install choice menu. I don't think...

        Microsoft still packages Windows N versions for the EU, to comply with previous rulings. In 2013, they were fined 561 million euros for dropping the browser install choice menu. I don't think something like this would go down well in the EU, even today. Precedent has been established.

        11 votes
  3. patience_limited
    Link
    As it happens, I literally just had this experience on a brand-new installation of Windows Server 2016 a few minutes ago. The default browser in that case is Internet Explorer(!). Due to "Enhanced...

    As it happens, I literally just had this experience on a brand-new installation of Windows Server 2016 a few minutes ago. The default browser in that case is Internet Explorer(!). Due to "Enhanced Protection", I not only had to add https://www.google.com to Trusted Sites to get to the Chrome download, I also had to add https://dl.google.com, and that's after clicking through about 10 pop-up warnings.

    Do we really need another round of anti-trust lawsuits for this?

    18 votes
  4. [8]
    starchturrets
    Link
    If they're going to pull this nonsense, they might as well go the Apple route and force all browsers on Windows to use Edge's rendering engine.

    If they're going to pull this nonsense, they might as well go the Apple route and force all browsers on Windows to use Edge's rendering engine.

    12 votes
    1. [6]
      Kraetos
      Link Parent
      macOS lets you install any browser & rendering engine you want to.

      macOS lets you install any browser & rendering engine you want to.

      3 votes
      1. [5]
        what
        Link Parent
        I assume they meant iOS?

        I assume they meant iOS?

        12 votes
        1. [4]
          Kraetos
          Link Parent
          That's a rather disingenuous comparison, then: macOS, not iOS, is Apple's alternative to Windows.

          That's a rather disingenuous comparison, then: macOS, not iOS, is Apple's alternative to Windows.

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            what
            Link Parent
            True, but you could make a similar comparison between iOS and Android (where on Android browsers can use whatever rendering engine that want).

            True, but you could make a similar comparison between iOS and Android (where on Android browsers can use whatever rendering engine that want).

            7 votes
            1. [2]
              Kraetos
              Link Parent
              You can make a lot of comparisons between a lot of things. The topic at hand here, though, is desktop operating systems.

              You can make a lot of comparisons between a lot of things. The topic at hand here, though, is desktop operating systems.

              3 votes
              1. what
                Link Parent
                True, but when discussing platforms restricting which rendering engine third-party browsers can use, I think it's fair to reference something from mobile platforms. In this case, the practice is...

                True, but when discussing platforms restricting which rendering engine third-party browsers can use, I think it's fair to reference something from mobile platforms. In this case, the practice is already done on mobile platforms, and I think comparing them is even more justified when you consider that web apps often serve to unify desktop & mobile, and limiting rendering engines allows a platform some form of control over any web apps ran on that platform.

                3 votes
    2. jprich
      Link Parent
      Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! They might hear you!

      Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! They might hear you!

      10 votes
  5. [5]
    Grendel
    Link
    If they really want their browser to be successful then they need to create a browser that people want to use. I understand that they have a bad reputation to overcome, but it can be done fairly...

    If they really want their browser to be successful then they need to create a browser that people want to use. I understand that they have a bad reputation to overcome, but it can be done fairly if Edge really is as good as they say it is.
    I'm definitely not a fan of Microsoft, but I've started using VS Code because it is a good product that fits my needs better than its competitors. If you have a better product people will eventually use it.

    12 votes
    1. [3]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      The problem for Microsoft is that it's not. Their web standards feature adoption (CSS related in particular) is way behind the other major browsers. Caniuse tracks web standards implementation...

      if Edge really is as good as they say it is.

      The problem for Microsoft is that it's not. Their web standards feature adoption (CSS related in particular) is way behind the other major browsers. Caniuse tracks web standards implementation across browsers and has Edge at the bottom by a significant margin. Amongst all 461 criteria they track, Edge has only implemented 260 of them, compared to 339 for chrome, 320 for Firefox. and Safari is unsurprisingly barely above Edge with 285.

      12 votes
      1. [2]
        Rocket_Man
        Link Parent
        I'd be interested in seeing how their score has changed over time. Mostly since they're the newest browser in the bunch.

        I'd be interested in seeing how their score has changed over time. Mostly since they're the newest browser in the bunch.

        2 votes
        1. cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          If you look at the dev version scores compared to release, Edge has added support for 5 previously unsupported standards whereas Chrome only added 1 and Firefox 2. So Edge will possibly catch up...

          If you look at the dev version scores compared to release, Edge has added support for 5 previously unsupported standards whereas Chrome only added 1 and Firefox 2. So Edge will possibly catch up eventually, but if IE is any indication then perhaps not. Historically, MS hasn't really given two shits about web standards and just does its own thing, relying on developers to figure out specific workarounds for their shitty browsers. Maybe with Edge that will change but who bloody knows with MS.

          3 votes
    2. teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      If Edge was FOSS that would grab my attention.

      If Edge was FOSS that would grab my attention.

      3 votes
  6. [18]
    Grzmot
    Link
    I recently started updating my Windows 10 machine again after having blocked the updates for quite some time. I did this because the OS insisted on always updating the system in the background,...

    I recently started updating my Windows 10 machine again after having blocked the updates for quite some time. I did this because the OS insisted on always updating the system in the background, slowly syphoning away my internet speeds and skyrocketing my ping while gaming randomly. I didn't need the new features, and most of them I still find completely useless.

    I started updating again because of security reasons, but if shit like this continues, I might just stop again. I do have Bitdefender to protect me.

    6 votes
    1. [7]
      pseudolobster
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      There exists a version of windows that's intentionally behind on feature updates, only gets them once every two years. It's called Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB, or "Long-Term Service Branch", and it...

      There exists a version of windows that's intentionally behind on feature updates, only gets them once every two years. It's called Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB, or "Long-Term Service Branch", and it ships without cortana or the app store. It still gets security updates though, so it's far safer to use than an un-updated win10.

      The problem is you can't buy it. It's only available via volume licensing from MS. You can install a trial version that lasts 90 days before nagging you, but using the command slmgr /rearm [edit: allows you to] renew it up to twice, giving 270 days before you need to reinstall.

      Otherwise, if you're okay participating in violating windows' EULA, there are keys available on ebay for ten bucks. These are no doubt tied to someone's volume license account, so in theory they could be revoked in the future, so I wouldn't use them on anything critical, but I've been using one on my laptop for a year and a bit now with no issues.

      Edit: previous sentence no verb

      9 votes
      1. teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        I suppose the standard Windows cracking software would work with it as well.

        I suppose the standard Windows cracking software would work with it as well.

        1 vote
      2. [5]
        Grzmot
        Link Parent
        I've read about Windows 10 LTSB and was thinking heavily into getting one. Are there any other differences except the lack of bloat? Like regarding games or something? It'd be exactly what I need...

        I've read about Windows 10 LTSB and was thinking heavily into getting one. Are there any other differences except the lack of bloat? Like regarding games or something? It'd be exactly what I need and want.

        1 vote
        1. [4]
          pseudolobster
          Link Parent
          I think the biggest downside would be if you use the Windows Store, or you have any apps that are UWP apps, you'll have some trouble downloading and/or installing them. Like for example the latest...

          I think the biggest downside would be if you use the Windows Store, or you have any apps that are UWP apps, you'll have some trouble downloading and/or installing them. Like for example the latest version of Forza I think requires the store.

          3 votes
          1. Akir
            Link Parent
            I don't think that's too big of an issue, since Microsoft is the only publisher who will bother with UWP exclusivity. Then again, I know there are many gamers who will purchase consoles just for...

            I don't think that's too big of an issue, since Microsoft is the only publisher who will bother with UWP exclusivity.

            Then again, I know there are many gamers who will purchase consoles just for one or two games. I can easily see that being a major motivator for people who want to play Halo or Forza on their PCs.

            1 vote
          2. [2]
            Grzmot
            Link Parent
            Do we know if any of the Office applications are bound to the store? I know they have a separate installer outside of the store, but I do like my Word and Excel.

            Do we know if any of the Office applications are bound to the store? I know they have a separate installer outside of the store, but I do like my Word and Excel.

            1 vote
            1. pseudolobster
              Link Parent
              No, I don't believe so. I could see them doing that in the future when they decide they need to fully kill off win7, but for now it's not required.

              No, I don't believe so. I could see them doing that in the future when they decide they need to fully kill off win7, but for now it's not required.

              1 vote
    2. [10]
      cos
      Link Parent
      What keeps you from switching to Linux? If it's gaming, have you tried using the new Steam+Proton+DXVK integration? And if Linux is truly unworkable for you, have you tried using Windows 10 LTSB...

      What keeps you from switching to Linux? If it's gaming, have you tried using the new Steam+Proton+DXVK integration? And if Linux is truly unworkable for you, have you tried using Windows 10 LTSB instead of Windows 10 Home?

      7 votes
      1. Grzmot
        Link Parent
        Another user recommended Windows 10 LTSB, and though I was already aware of it, I'm thinking more now into getting it. Yes, games are really the only thing keeping me from switching, besides I'm...

        Another user recommended Windows 10 LTSB, and though I was already aware of it, I'm thinking more now into getting it.

        Yes, games are really the only thing keeping me from switching, besides I'm used to Windows and lazy, so this way I don't have to set up everything again on my laptop and workstation. I've heard of Steam Proton and am eagerly watching it to see where it goes, but I think that right now it's a bit too early to switch, especially since a few games I play a lot aren't on Steam. When it's out of it's growing pains, I'll seriously think about Linux.

        3 votes
      2. [2]
        Celeo
        Link Parent
        Thanks for the link about LTSB; hadn't heard about that before.

        Thanks for the link about LTSB; hadn't heard about that before.

        2 votes
        1. cos
          Link Parent
          No problem! It's so much better than stock Windows 10 if you can get your hands on a key (they go for cheap on eBay) or if you're willing to go the way of the pirate.

          No problem! It's so much better than stock Windows 10 if you can get your hands on a key (they go for cheap on eBay) or if you're willing to go the way of the pirate.

          2 votes
      3. [6]
        Kiloku
        Link Parent
        My two specific gripes are Visual Studio (not VS Code) for C# programming and Unity3D, which has had Linux support in a perpetual beta.

        My two specific gripes are Visual Studio (not VS Code) for C# programming and Unity3D, which has had Linux support in a perpetual beta.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          I can't compare it to VS since I don't use it, but have you tried ReSharper? JetBrains' IDEs are very full-featured out of the box and have a number of extensions that might help you out.

          I can't compare it to VS since I don't use it, but have you tried ReSharper? JetBrains' IDEs are very full-featured out of the box and have a number of extensions that might help you out.

          2 votes
          1. Kiloku
            Link Parent
            I haven't tried, but I'm willing to. Thanks for the tip

            I haven't tried, but I'm willing to. Thanks for the tip

            2 votes
        2. [3]
          what
          Link Parent
          I used Unity on Arch for a little bit a while back, and combined with VS Code, it worked pretty well - then again, I didn’t use it super extensively, just a small project. This isn’t a solution in...

          I used Unity on Arch for a little bit a while back, and combined with VS Code, it worked pretty well - then again, I didn’t use it super extensively, just a small project.

          This isn’t a solution in any way and is quite unrelated, but I figure it won’t hurt to mention: Godot has really shaped up over the past few years, and I think I enjoy it more then Unity - there’s something refreshing about how similar but at the same time lightweight it is (I also love my FOSS :)). Works great on Windows/Mac/Linux.

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            Kiloku
            Link Parent
            I really like godot, but I was having a hard time learning it. I have to take more time to study it

            I really like godot, but I was having a hard time learning it.

            I have to take more time to study it

            2 votes
            1. what
              Link Parent
              I ran into the same issue - there’s still a bit of a lack of resources for learning Godot (especially compared to Unity!). As a person who greatly prefers written tutorials, the shortage is even...

              I ran into the same issue - there’s still a bit of a lack of resources for learning Godot (especially compared to Unity!). As a person who greatly prefers written tutorials, the shortage is even worse.

              One of the creators of Godot semi-recently wrote a book about Godot for the Teach Yourself in 24 Hours series. I really liked it - especially how it has a few bigger projects that help show you what developing an actual game involves.

              2 votes
  7. Cliftonia
    Link
    Of course they are, win10 is a creepy and jealous liar.

    Of course they are, win10 is a creepy and jealous liar.

    5 votes
  8. [3]
    EscReality
    Link
    Am I the only one that has never had issues with my installation of Windows 10? I set it up, disabled all the dumb stuff and haven't had an issue since.

    Am I the only one that has never had issues with my installation of Windows 10?

    I set it up, disabled all the dumb stuff and haven't had an issue since.

    3 votes
    1. Weldawadyathink
      Link Parent
      I had issues in the beginning. I had a borked install that I kept trying to migrate to different hardware changes. Then, about a year ago, I decided to reinstall, and I have had zero issues since....

      I had issues in the beginning. I had a borked install that I kept trying to migrate to different hardware changes. Then, about a year ago, I decided to reinstall, and I have had zero issues since. In general, you only hear from the people with issues.

      5 votes
    2. AVo
      Link Parent
      I had to fully reinstall Windows 10 for a friend of mine and he was amazed that his computer (nice hardware) was so fast. I'm not 100% sure why but Windows tends to slow down for me after a period...

      I had to fully reinstall Windows 10 for a friend of mine and he was amazed that his computer (nice hardware) was so fast. I'm not 100% sure why but Windows tends to slow down for me after a period of time (months). Same friend gifted me his MacBook and MacOS has been very charming. Lots of thought has been put in the design imo and for whatever reason the applications on MacOS tend to fall in line with Apples UI guide lines so everything seems cohesive.

      1 vote
  9. annadane
    Link
    With the lack of privacy and the forced upgrades and now this... WHO THE FUCK IS WORKING AT MICROSOFT WHO CAN POSSIBLY JUSTIFY ANY OF WHAT THEY DO? Are they actually the stereotypical lab...

    With the lack of privacy and the forced upgrades and now this...

    WHO THE FUCK IS WORKING AT MICROSOFT WHO CAN POSSIBLY JUSTIFY ANY OF WHAT THEY DO? Are they actually the stereotypical lab scientists who create Frankenstein's monster and sit there cackling while creepy music plays?

    3 votes