The M1 processor is amazing and it's exciting to see them going further with it. I love to see the x86/Intel monoculture being broken with performance upgrades at the same time.
The M1 processor is amazing and it's exciting to see them going further with it. I love to see the x86/Intel monoculture being broken with performance upgrades at the same time.
These new machines are a slam dunk in my book. I'm still happily using my 13" MPB from early 2015, but it's showing its age in a few areas. In the years since I bought it, I've watched from the...
These new machines are a slam dunk in my book. I'm still happily using my 13" MPB from early 2015, but it's showing its age in a few areas. In the years since I bought it, I've watched from the sidelines as Apple has made one perplexing "downgrade" after another— butterfly keyboards, replacement of function keys with a lackluster touch bar, removal of MagSafe and the card reader. The rumor mill was suggesting this could be a sweeping correction of all those ills, but I figured that sounded too good be to true.
Well, it was true! All of it! I ordered the 14" M1 Max, it's a similar form factor to my current machine but a massive spec upgrade. It's been a while since I've been this hyped about an Apple announcement but it's basically everything I'd been hoping for, with some extra niceties in the 1080p camera, better mic(s), very nice 120Hz screen, fast charging, etc. By the sounds of it this ought to be plenty of laptop for my needs for many years to come. Kudos to Apple for reversing direction where it was needed.
The one thing I'm annoyed about is the notch. It's not a deal-breaker obviously. Lots of people saying their menubar content doesn't extend all the way to the middle, but mine absolutely does. Maybe it won't on the new, higher res and pixel-density screen, but on my current machine it's pretty crowded up there. I use Bartender to hide a bunch of things from the right side, but it's actually the left side with the far reach in some of the applications I use. I hope Monterey includes a good solution for this... I can't think of any that aren't clunky and inelegant. I've been scouring all the screenshots on apple.com for hints, but none of them show menubars that cross the notch. There's one of Photoshop that comes close. I really want to know what happens to the overflowed menus.
I also use Bartender on my MacBooks. It’s baffling to me that Apple doesn’t have similar functionality built-in to macOS by now. My best guess is that they would add an ellipsis menu item on the...
I also use Bartender on my MacBooks. It’s baffling to me that Apple doesn’t have similar functionality built-in to macOS by now. My best guess is that they would add an ellipsis menu item on the left side, which would flow additional menu items into a drop-down menu. But, I’m just as curious as you to learn what, if any, thought was paid to what happens when the notch actually gets in the way. (I keep my menubar on auto-hide anyway, and I largely only use menu bar items on the right side, but I know less keyboard-centric users still rely on the left side of the menu bar, and since it is such a rock-solid part of the macOS GUI going all the way back to the original, it’ll be interesting to see how people react when they get their hands on it.)
Just saw this screencap showing what happens when the menus overflow. It's... not great. Maybe a future version of Bartender will offer some alternatives. Credit to @JXM for linking that elsewhere...
My best guess is that they would add an ellipsis menu item on the left side, which would flow additional menu items into a drop-down menu.
Just saw this screencap showing what happens when the menus overflow. It's... not great. Maybe a future version of Bartender will offer some alternatives. Credit to @JXM for linking that elsewhere in this discussion.
Well, all the more motivation for Apple to sherlock Bartender as there is even more competition for that screen real estate up there. It's definitely not elegant.
Well, all the more motivation for Apple to sherlock Bartender as there is even more competition for that screen real estate up there. It's definitely not elegant.
I heard some speculation that Apple's just going to "Sherlock" Bartender. I wouldn't complain, if that were true. Interesting to note that in fullscreen, the menubar area just goes black and...
I heard some speculation that Apple's just going to "Sherlock" Bartender. I wouldn't complain, if that were true.
Interesting to note that in fullscreen, the menubar area just goes black and effectively becomes a bezel. Seems Apple doesn't intend for the notch to ever overlay non-menubar content. Bit of a surprising choice honestly, considering how Apple emphasizes the fullscreen lifestyle in so much of their marketing shots. What I don't get is why the menubar hides at all in fullscreen, if it's just going to be replaced with nothing. What's the point? On current Macs, the menubar slides down to overlay fullscreen content when you move the cursor to the top edge of the screen. But I guess that behavior will just change to... fading in from the black maybe? And fading back out when you mouse away? Seems unnecessary.
The fade to black will probably be a stopgap, or a default. Apple will expose APIs in their UI framework to let developers fill that space in full screen if they want to, but while no apps support...
The fade to black will probably be a stopgap, or a default. Apple will expose APIs in their UI framework to let developers fill that space in full screen if they want to, but while no apps support it it’ll just become a bezel again.
Same I liked it more than the newer scissor switches. But I do not miss the twinge of anxiety I got every time a key didn't register a click. "Is this it? Does the bell toll for thee!?" I would...
Same I liked it more than the newer scissor switches. But I do not miss the twinge of anxiety I got every time a key didn't register a click. "Is this it? Does the bell toll for thee!?" I would ask. And then I would wiggle the key and it would work as normal again. Repeat this every couple of weeks haha.
It took me about a day to prefer the new keyboard over the old one, but to be fair, I had to have my last keyboard replaced 4 times, and that iteration of keyboard was hot garbage.
It took me about a day to prefer the new keyboard over the old one, but to be fair, I had to have my last keyboard replaced 4 times, and that iteration of keyboard was hot garbage.
People on the internet seem very, very upset about the notch. Can't say I understand the sentiment much. Anyway I ordered one, due to come early November 👀.. Very excited about having an M1 laptop...
People on the internet seem very, very upset about the notch. Can't say I understand the sentiment much.
Anyway I ordered one, due to come early November 👀.. Very excited about having an M1 laptop now.
If the notch is the only thing people are upset about, I think that’s a resounding endorsement of this design. I knew there was speculation about Apple adding back ports and I/O that were stripped...
If the notch is the only thing people are upset about, I think that’s a resounding endorsement of this design. I knew there was speculation about Apple adding back ports and I/O that were stripped out in the ~2015 designs, but I wasn’t sure if Apple would actually opt to make a thicker chassis and add back MagSafe. It was a pleasant surprise. The notch is just a cosmetic thing, and I think in daily use, nobody will notice it. I’ve been using iPhones Pro with notches for going on 3 years now and I don’t notice it at all. I put in an order for a 14” as well, and I’ll see what the notch feels like on a larger display when it arrives. The one thing that worries me is that the weight of the devices seems to have gone up along with the volume.
Definitely for me. I use Clamshell Mode 24/7 with my old MBPs (2008 and 2012 models) and am long overdue for an upgrade. The notch would not bother me, and the notch in my iPhone 12 Mini has never...
The notch is just a cosmetic thing, and I think in daily use, nobody will notice it
Definitely for me. I use Clamshell Mode 24/7 with my old MBPs (2008 and 2012 models) and am long overdue for an upgrade. The notch would not bother me, and the notch in my iPhone 12 Mini has never bothered me either.
What's the advantage of clamshell mode over just having a second, smaller screen? I used to keep my Slack and Calendar open on my MacBook Pro screen while doing all my work on the big screen,...
What's the advantage of clamshell mode over just having a second, smaller screen?
I used to keep my Slack and Calendar open on my MacBook Pro screen while doing all my work on the big screen, which was nice.
My work doesn’t give me a Mac, but I use clamshell mode on my windows laptop. I already have 2 large monitors on a stand. Leaving my laptop on the desk takes up way too much desk space (and I have...
My work doesn’t give me a Mac, but I use clamshell mode on my windows laptop. I already have 2 large monitors on a stand. Leaving my laptop on the desk takes up way too much desk space (and I have a really big desk). To put it where I would want it, the keyboard section would be half falling off the desk anyway.
That is not to mention that the dell has a crappy screen. At least with any current Mac, the screen would be hi res and beautiful.
A few people I saw in the wild have commented on it being thicker and maybe looking a bit uglier, but not saying that's a dealbreaker. There are people out there saying the notch (which doesn't...
A few people I saw in the wild have commented on it being thicker and maybe looking a bit uglier, but not saying that's a dealbreaker.
There are people out there saying the notch (which doesn't make the screen smaller than normal, or make it a shorter ratio screen than normal, and which you can hide completely) is a showstopper. One guy I saw on MacRumors (yes I know) who said he didn't buy an iPhone just because of the notch they have.
It's really odd how aggressive people seem to be about the thing that has the seemingly smallest impact.
I was going to complain about the notch, but then I realized I basically have a notch as well because of how thin the bezel on my monitor is and how thick my webcam is.
I was going to complain about the notch, but then I realized I basically have a notch as well because of how thin the bezel on my monitor is and how thick my webcam is.
The top enclosure where the screen is has nowhere near enough depth for the array of FaceID sensors that are currently used in the iPhones/iPads. Maybe if future iterations of those sensors can be...
The top enclosure where the screen is has nowhere near enough depth for the array of FaceID sensors that are currently used in the iPhones/iPads. Maybe if future iterations of those sensors can be put into a thinner depth-wise package, future revisions of this design could add FaceID in that notch? (The previous MacBook Pro enclosure design lasted some 6 years, so maybe within that timeframe it will be feasible that sensors can be miniaturized.) The lack of depth in that part of the laptop enclosure is the same constraint that limits laptop cameras. Any sort of optical sensors located above, below, to the side, or even behind the screen is going to be limited in such a design.
This, 100%. "Why don't they just put the iPhone FaceID module in the lid?" Because the phone is 7mm thick, and the display lid is 3-4. FaceID uses up all the depth in the phone, too - that's why...
This, 100%.
"Why don't they just put the iPhone FaceID module in the lid?"
Because the phone is 7mm thick, and the display lid is 3-4. FaceID uses up all the depth in the phone, too - that's why the iPhone X (first one with FaceID) had a vertical camera array instead of horizontal (because the regular back cameras use up almost all the depth in the phone, too. So they can't overlap with Face ID.)
I wish the notch were smaller though; I don't use the webcam all, so I'd be happy with no camera at all, but I get why they did it. Like it or not, the notch is Apple design language now, and given the choice between a poor quality camera (like Dell with the XPS line) or a higher-quality camera and a notch, they've clearly decided the notch isn't bad enough to justify a low-quality camera.
I suspect the main issue is that they can't count on the laptop screen being at a good enough orientation for FaceID the way they can with the phone. Especially in use cases where people have dual...
I suspect the main issue is that they can't count on the laptop screen being at a good enough orientation for FaceID the way they can with the phone. Especially in use cases where people have dual monitors and keep the laptop itself a little off center or with people who still insist on having a webcam shutter.
Apple would probably be okay with people having scenarios where they simply can't use the feature (as with TouchID in clamshell mode). But scenarios where the feature will try to work but be frustrating would be a sticking point with design.
I'd assume the off-angle case is solvable with the same solution they use on the iPads Pro where an on-screen reminder points to the physical FaceID sensor array and tells the user to look at it...
I'd assume the off-angle case is solvable with the same solution they use on the iPads Pro where an on-screen reminder points to the physical FaceID sensor array and tells the user to look at it (or gives you a message that the sensors are covered up, reminding you to uncover it).
I felt the same until I realized they actually reduced the top bezel - they didn't drop down the notch into previous screen real estate. It seems like the notch could be much smaller, though....
I felt the same until I realized they actually reduced the top bezel - they didn't drop down the notch into previous screen real estate. It seems like the notch could be much smaller, though. Without all the extra face ID sensors why do they need a solid inch of width?
So it seems like it's a solid machine and they are basically undoing all of the questionable decisions from the last six years. I love that they are bringing back MagSafe but keeping USB C...
So it seems like it's a solid machine and they are basically undoing all of the questionable decisions from the last six years. I love that they are bringing back MagSafe but keeping USB C charging. I haven't heard if the USB C charger supports the newer Power Delivery spec that goes up to 240W though.
But that screen has me asking so many questions...
Why is there a notch if there is no Face ID?
Why is there a notch at all? Just make the top bezel bigger.
Why are the top corners of the display rounded?
Why are the bottom corners not rounded?
Why did they decide that mixing rounded and not rounded corners was a good idea?
It's more the reverse: why not have a notch? Screen > bezel, after all. I'll take more screen. More screen is always nice. The main demerit would be increased engineer cost and supply cost, but we...
It's more the reverse: why not have a notch? Screen > bezel, after all. I'll take more screen. More screen is always nice. The main demerit would be increased engineer cost and supply cost, but we have no insight into those.
It helps that macOS works well with the notch. There's always a menu bar on top anyway, and the resolution below the notch is still 16:10 - you just get more screen.
I'd say MacOS is not designed for the notch - just look at how bad the menu bar looks with more than a few items. I'd rather not have a notch blocking off the middle of the menu bar. If space is...
I'd say MacOS is not designed for the notch - just look at how bad the menu bar looks with more than a few items. I'd rather not have a notch blocking off the middle of the menu bar. If space is of paramount concern, you can always enable automatic hiding of the menu bar. I used to have it on all the time with my 11-inch MacBook Air.
I think that looks fine. I’d take more screen space for that any day. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an option in Monterey to permanently black out the area next to the notch anyway, since that...
I think that looks fine. I’d take more screen space for that any day.
Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an option in Monterey to permanently black out the area next to the notch anyway, since that appears to be the default behavior when full screening an app.
This is what their laptops currently have; a large top bezel. Don't think of the notch as extending into the display; instead, think of it as extra room to the sides of the camera. (This isn't...
Why is there a notch at all? Just make the top bezel bigger.
This is what their laptops currently have; a large top bezel. Don't think of the notch as extending into the display; instead, think of it as extra room to the sides of the camera. (This isn't just me saying this, either - the displays are 16:10 aspect ratio, plus 74 pixels for the notch. So even if the entire space next to the notch were blacked out, you're not losing any space.)
Why are the top corners of the display rounded?
Eh. This is getting more common now from everyone; it keeps the bezel a uniform thickness all the way around. Without rounding the display edges, you'd need to have sharper corners (like Dell's XPS line.) It's just a design decision that shouldn't have much of an impact on everyday use.
Why are the bottom corners not rounded?
Probably because the top of the display is always has a menubar (system-controlled), but apps can draw on the bottom edge; so there might be info there that shouldn't be obscured.
Top level commenting this because it's a global observation of the thread. That people are arguing about what ports should be included, with both "USB C is all I need" and "I'd trade thunderbolt...
Top level commenting this because it's a global observation of the thread.
That people are arguing about what ports should be included, with both "USB C is all I need" and "I'd trade thunderbolt for USB-A any day" being represented, along with "HDMI good" and "HDMI bad", means Framework is taking the right approach.
Ok, nice, this seems like a genuinely worthwhile professional machine - I don't need an upgrade quite yet, but the faster 14" or its immediate successor should be pretty much spot on. No idea why...
Ok, nice, this seems like a genuinely worthwhile professional machine - I don't need an upgrade quite yet, but the faster 14" or its immediate successor should be pretty much spot on. No idea why we lost MagSafe for those few years, but I'm incredibly happy to see it back, and I'm also pleased to see they didn't include USB-A; a card reader and HDMI make sense for specific tasks, but forcing device manufacturers to the new standard for general purpose connections is still a good thing.
I know they're likely just clearing stock of the old 13" ones, but the fact that they were still selling a "Pro" model with 8GB/256GB was kind of embarrassing four years ago, let alone today. Glad to see the 14" base spec bumped up to something more worthwhile, and I've got my fingers crossed they'll keep that moving as time goes on.
Dang, these look like really well-rounded laptops. Having an HDMI is a big win for usability in my book - and I'm sure anyone who works with media is very pleased with the return of the SD card...
Dang, these look like really well-rounded laptops. Having an HDMI is a big win for usability in my book - and I'm sure anyone who works with media is very pleased with the return of the SD card reader.
I'm personally waiting for broader ARM support from the Linux ecosystem (not to mention Linux support on the M1 itself), so I won't be in the market for another four or five years - but I'll probably look at the 14" model or equivalent then.
Ehh, HDMI is probably the one port I would have done without. I feel that most people who will use external displays are people who are going to have some sort of docking solution that already...
Ehh, HDMI is probably the one port I would have done without. I feel that most people who will use external displays are people who are going to have some sort of docking solution that already integrates with their displays. But this is still great for people who are doing presentations and need to plug into random displays. For those, I'd much prefer a wireless options, but wireless display sharing isn't really universal and simple enough at this point in time.
Don't get me wrong, more connectivity is always great, especially on a "Pro" device, it's just that I'd personally rather see two full-sized USB-A ports because that's what's keeping me in dongle hell.
Linux has excellent ARM support. The problem is that nobody's using ARM CPUs in an open design and are full of proprietary parts that act like black boxes. You can run Linux on M1 right now - but you won't get the full features of the chip because Apple doesn't want to release any details on how those parts work and it's extremely complex to reverse-engineer.
I support any effort to force change to usb c. But on the other hand if I was picking the ports as you can on a framework laptop I’d go with just 1 Thunderbolt and 2 usb a.
I support any effort to force change to usb c. But on the other hand if I was picking the ports as you can on a framework laptop I’d go with just 1 Thunderbolt and 2 usb a.
Yes. Usb A needs to die. I have almost fully removed usb A from my life. To be clear, it is nowhere near as bad as micro b or mini b, but usb c is better in every way. I currently only use usb a...
Yes. Usb A needs to die. I have almost fully removed usb A from my life.
To be clear, it is nowhere near as bad as micro b or mini b, but usb c is better in every way.
I currently only use usb a for things that stay plugged in constantly. Charging areas, keyboards, oculus rift sensors, etc. my only frustration is that every manufacturer seems to want to add usb a to everything. I just wish someone would release some good cheap usb c hubs. I don’t need thunderbolt; even just a 5gbps hub would be great.
USB-A is better for external always-in devices like mouse dongles, tiny flash drives, WiFi adapters, etc. It's also much sturdier (but, granted, that comes from the size).
USB-A is better for external always-in devices like mouse dongles, tiny flash drives, WiFi adapters, etc.
It's also much sturdier (but, granted, that comes from the size).
There's no such thing as a design that is better in literally every way. In the case of USB-C there's a major flaw in that it wasn't designed to be cheap to manufacture. USB was originally...
There's no such thing as a design that is better in literally every way. In the case of USB-C there's a major flaw in that it wasn't designed to be cheap to manufacture. USB was originally designed to be a cheap all-in-one replacement for a number of relatively slow and low-powered devices. And the thing that USB-C fails at is providing an inexpensive connector.
USB-A was so simple that any half-decent machine shop could make a mostly-compatable male plug for fragments of a cent. But USB-C needs some rather expensive machines to get running, so there are additional costs involved in making goods that work with it, which is a cost that free-market capitalism encourages manufacturers to cut. That's why USB-A is going to stick around for a good long while.
That's just talking about the physical interface. Don't even get me started with signaling.
I just spent a few minutes on mouser. I found a surface mount usb c connector for 76¢, and a usb a connector for 77¢. I am sure if you spent more time you could find examples of usb a ports for...
I just spent a few minutes on mouser. I found a surface mount usb c connector for 76¢, and a usb a connector for 77¢. I am sure if you spent more time you could find examples of usb a ports for much cheaper. However, for basically all cost ranges of devices, a 70¢ port is not going to significantly change the price of the product. The idea that a 60¢ connector is too expensive is a bad argument for any cost of device, except maybe <$10. I would gladly pay an extra $5 per device to be usb c, let alone $1.
Mass manufacturing makes things vastly more complex than "this part costs 77 cents". Generally speaking retail markups are going to cause the price to double multiple times depending on how many...
Mass manufacturing makes things vastly more complex than "this part costs 77 cents". Generally speaking retail markups are going to cause the price to double multiple times depending on how many middlemen are involved. Those 77 cents can easily become $5, and that can be the difference between someone buying your product and the competition. That's why I brought up ease of machining - it's easy to make the connector yourself and get the costs down to the bare minimum. Even if you can't do that, the nature of the electronics market in Shenzhen makes it easy to buy directly from the manufacturer and avoid distributor markup.
You have choices; you don't have to buy the cheap stuff. I'm not trying to justify their existence, just to explain why it remains. USB-A is not likely to ever disappear completely. Though to be fair I expect it will disappear much sooner than the generic DC barrel jack.
I kind of agree with you, but at the same time, it's clear that Apple can't unilaterally change the computer market the same way they have with other markets.
I kind of agree with you, but at the same time, it's clear that Apple can't unilaterally change the computer market the same way they have with other markets.
I'd trade one of the left Thunderbolt ports for USB-A any day. HDMI is basically good enough for me though because I do a lot of random presenting, and almost all of my uses for USB-A are with my...
I'd trade one of the left Thunderbolt ports for USB-A any day. HDMI is basically good enough for me though because I do a lot of random presenting, and almost all of my uses for USB-A are with my own devices, which I can stick adapters on permanently.
With Linux on ARM I'm more concerned with packaged software support - one quite nice thing about Linux on x86 is you can run any software packaged for "Linux" with minimal fuss, and most for Windows with Wine. As far as I know no Rosetta2-style compatibility layer exists (unless QEMU does that?) .
These look like really solid machines. I'm very glad MagSafe and HDMI are back. My only major complaint is that the SSD is still not replaceable, which bugs me because it is essentially a wear...
These look like really solid machines. I'm very glad MagSafe and HDMI are back. My only major complaint is that the SSD is still not replaceable, which bugs me because it is essentially a wear item. With heavy use, it will die long before all the other components soldered to the motherboard.
The notch doesn't bother me. That space has been wasted on every Mac since wide aspect ratios became a thing.
The SSD being non-replaceable is one thing I've always been bugged by. As you said, it can be a limiting factor to how long the computer lasts (and if it costs $500+ to get it fixed, it's not...
The SSD being non-replaceable is one thing I've always been bugged by. As you said, it can be a limiting factor to how long the computer lasts (and if it costs $500+ to get it fixed, it's not worth it vs buying a new computer). Even Microsoft has been moving toward replaceable storage (albeit with a custom module).
Apple has actually being going the other way, pairing the SSD chips with the processor/T2 chip on newer computers. They claim it's for security, but it's way overkill for what most people need to keep their data secure.
Pairing the SSD with the T2 chip is a good security move, I like that they do this by default, for everyone. Windows is essentially doing this with your TPM chip whenever you use Bitlocker, though...
Pairing the SSD with the T2 chip is a good security move, I like that they do this by default, for everyone. Windows is essentially doing this with your TPM chip whenever you use Bitlocker, though for everyday consumers they store a backup of the key on their Microsoft account, and power users are prompted to store their own copy of the key somewhere secure. The user's data isn't lost forever if their motherboard dies.
I think Apple should do the same: Offer iCloud storage of the users encryption key to make life easy for most users, and let power users keep a copy of the key wherever they want so they can plug an encrypted drive into another machine for data recovery.
But I guess it's all moot when Apple makes a conscious choice to solder the SSD to the motherboard. Even the top 1% of power users probably aren't going to go through the effort of removing those NAND chips and transplanting them to a new board.
Apple does the same as Microsoft and stores the decryption key in the cloud if you want (I think the option is called "Decrypt disk with Apple ID password" or something similar). That sums up my...
Apple does the same as Microsoft and stores the decryption key in the cloud if you want (I think the option is called "Decrypt disk with Apple ID password" or something similar).
Even the top 1% of power users probably aren't going to go through the effort of removing those NAND chips and transplanting them to a new board.
That sums up my though, honestly. It's way overkill for what most people need when it comes to stopping casual thieves and it won't be a barrier for something like a nation state that wants to get access to someone's data (although that's not something almost anyone has to worry about).
I think the problems it addresses are way outweighed by the disadvantages it poses to non tech savvy users. Look how hard it is to replace the SSD in a Mac Pro (the only one with a replaceable drive at this point) - you literally have to replace the entire T2 firmware using a process that involves having a second Mac laying around.
I think iCloud Activation Lock does way more to deter that type of activity and keeping user data safe than the pairing with the T2 does.
In The Anti-iPhone Linus argues that you don't really need a flagship phone for everyday use, I believe that's the future for computers also. We're building faster CPU's to run bloat.
In The Anti-iPhone Linus argues that you don't really need a flagship phone for everyday use, I believe that's the future for computers also. We're building faster CPU's to run bloat.
I totally agree, and I actually think that's something that's been done well here: it's a return to making that "Pro" name a bit more meaningful. Most people don't need this laptop, but the choice...
I totally agree, and I actually think that's something that's been done well here: it's a return to making that "Pro" name a bit more meaningful.
Most people don't need this laptop, but the choice of benchmarks (compiling code, rendering 3D artwork, editing video) shows exactly who it's for - if you really do tasks like this every day for a living, it's a very compelling option.
Of course it'll carry some cachet because it's what the pros are using, and because it's expensive, and frankly just because it's got an Apple stamped on the back of the case, so there's definitely a non-pro market who'll still buy it and won't remotely be making use of the power, but that's a relatively small group in the scheme of things. The much larger population of people who might've bought a MacBook Pro a few years ago because it was kind of blurring itself into the consumer segment to make up for Apple's neglected and overpriced other ranges can now buy an M1 Air, or indeed any number of high quality Windows options, without feeling short changed.
Although if you’re considering an M1 air I can’t see what Windows option would be acceptable. The battery life and power of M1 laptops isn’t matched by any non Apple hardware. I’m not a huge Apple...
Although if you’re considering an M1 air I can’t see what Windows option would be acceptable. The battery life and power of M1 laptops isn’t matched by any non Apple hardware.
I’m not a huge Apple fan but… I honestly can’t get excited about non Apple Silicon laptops right now.
I dunno, I have a Thinkpad T480 and while it doesn't last 18 hours, I also don't usually stay out and about for 18 hours a day. It also has a hot-swappable battery, so with my three battery packs...
I dunno, I have a Thinkpad T480 and while it doesn't last 18 hours, I also don't usually stay out and about for 18 hours a day. It also has a hot-swappable battery, so with my three battery packs I can probably get ~20 hours out of it if I need to - and in principle, I could extend that indefinitely. (On the other hand, it's running Linux; battery life may be worse under Windows.)
It's also worth mentioning that if you rely on software that's not blessed by Apple, it doesn't really matter how good the M1 is - it's simply not an option.
I use one for work and haven’t had any issues with software. But yeah I’m sure there are tons of applications that don’t run on it. The 18 hour estimate isn’t what I’m thinking about. I’m thinking...
I use one for work and haven’t had any issues with software. But yeah I’m sure there are tons of applications that don’t run on it.
The 18 hour estimate isn’t what I’m thinking about. I’m thinking about how much video playback you can get out of it. If I’m not near an outlet it’s nice to get 7-8 hours of watch time.
Gotchya! Yeah, I don't have any trouble hitting that figure on my Thinkpad with the bigger battery pack - plus the screen is matte, so I can use it outside without a really high brightness.
Gotchya! Yeah, I don't have any trouble hitting that figure on my Thinkpad with the bigger battery pack - plus the screen is matte, so I can use it outside without a really high brightness.
The thing that's nice about having a 12+ hour battery life is not that you can use it continuously for that amount of time, but that it allows you to charge it infrequently. It allows you to run...
The thing that's nice about having a 12+ hour battery life is not that you can use it continuously for that amount of time, but that it allows you to charge it infrequently. It allows you to run it for 8 Hours without needing a charger if you want it, or if you are the kind of person who needs to use it in short spurts, you can get away with charging it just once a week.
Though if you're in the latter category you probably don't need a $2000+ "pro" machine.
Totally! But again, I don't really have a problem with having to keep my Thinkpad docked to power all the time. I leave it wherever I was using it, and only dock it at my desk when I'm at my desk....
Totally! But again, I don't really have a problem with having to keep my Thinkpad docked to power all the time. I leave it wherever I was using it, and only dock it at my desk when I'm at my desk. It's rarely an issue.
Long battery life is good, don't get me wrong - but Apple didn't invent it.
Except that, of course, it's not available in a desktop or AIO form factor, which is by far what I see professional studio musicians and especially engineers, animators, and video editors using....
I totally agree, and I actually think that's something that's been done well here: it's a return to making that "Pro" name a bit more meaningful.
Except that, of course, it's not available in a desktop or AIO form factor, which is by far what I see professional studio musicians and especially engineers, animators, and video editors using. I'm glad they've brought back some actual ports, since I'll probably be required to use one of these for work at some point, but it's a far cry from what I'd consider a viable "professional" machine. I'll need to attach it to a dock and a real monitor, at the very least.
Depends on your environment, I guess - I can only speak for software and video, but on both counts it's MacBook Pros as far as the eye can see in my experience. Many of them docked to extra...
Depends on your environment, I guess - I can only speak for software and video, but on both counts it's MacBook Pros as far as the eye can see in my experience. Many of them docked to extra monitors, for sure, but still going with the laptop to keep the core portable.
Could well be that I'm more used to seeing people who want to take their work on the road because I'm more closely surrounded by freelancers and small startups, so I can imagine larger companies with larger offices preferring to fit out fixed machines, but I can say with confidence that I could throw a rock and hit a professional who actively wants this laptop.
All that said, bring on the desktops/AOIs as well! I imagine the next round of Mac Minis will hit a hell of a price/power/performance ratio, although I'm making no bets on the Mac Pro line at this point.
The M1 processor is amazing and it's exciting to see them going further with it. I love to see the x86/Intel monoculture being broken with performance upgrades at the same time.
MagSafe is back, along with dongle-less HDMI. These small touches make all the difference to me.
These new machines are a slam dunk in my book. I'm still happily using my 13" MPB from early 2015, but it's showing its age in a few areas. In the years since I bought it, I've watched from the sidelines as Apple has made one perplexing "downgrade" after another— butterfly keyboards, replacement of function keys with a lackluster touch bar, removal of MagSafe and the card reader. The rumor mill was suggesting this could be a sweeping correction of all those ills, but I figured that sounded too good be to true.
Well, it was true! All of it! I ordered the 14" M1 Max, it's a similar form factor to my current machine but a massive spec upgrade. It's been a while since I've been this hyped about an Apple announcement but it's basically everything I'd been hoping for, with some extra niceties in the 1080p camera, better mic(s), very nice 120Hz screen, fast charging, etc. By the sounds of it this ought to be plenty of laptop for my needs for many years to come. Kudos to Apple for reversing direction where it was needed.
The one thing I'm annoyed about is the notch. It's not a deal-breaker obviously. Lots of people saying their menubar content doesn't extend all the way to the middle, but mine absolutely does. Maybe it won't on the new, higher res and pixel-density screen, but on my current machine it's pretty crowded up there. I use Bartender to hide a bunch of things from the right side, but it's actually the left side with the far reach in some of the applications I use. I hope Monterey includes a good solution for this... I can't think of any that aren't clunky and inelegant. I've been scouring all the screenshots on apple.com for hints, but none of them show menubars that cross the notch. There's one of Photoshop that comes close. I really want to know what happens to the overflowed menus.
I also use Bartender on my MacBooks. It’s baffling to me that Apple doesn’t have similar functionality built-in to macOS by now. My best guess is that they would add an ellipsis menu item on the left side, which would flow additional menu items into a drop-down menu. But, I’m just as curious as you to learn what, if any, thought was paid to what happens when the notch actually gets in the way. (I keep my menubar on auto-hide anyway, and I largely only use menu bar items on the right side, but I know less keyboard-centric users still rely on the left side of the menu bar, and since it is such a rock-solid part of the macOS GUI going all the way back to the original, it’ll be interesting to see how people react when they get their hands on it.)
Just saw this screencap showing what happens when the menus overflow. It's... not great. Maybe a future version of Bartender will offer some alternatives. Credit to @JXM for linking that elsewhere in this discussion.
Well, all the more motivation for Apple to sherlock Bartender as there is even more competition for that screen real estate up there. It's definitely not elegant.
I heard some speculation that Apple's just going to "Sherlock" Bartender. I wouldn't complain, if that were true.
Interesting to note that in fullscreen, the menubar area just goes black and effectively becomes a bezel. Seems Apple doesn't intend for the notch to ever overlay non-menubar content. Bit of a surprising choice honestly, considering how Apple emphasizes the fullscreen lifestyle in so much of their marketing shots. What I don't get is why the menubar hides at all in fullscreen, if it's just going to be replaced with nothing. What's the point? On current Macs, the menubar slides down to overlay fullscreen content when you move the cursor to the top edge of the screen. But I guess that behavior will just change to... fading in from the black maybe? And fading back out when you mouse away? Seems unnecessary.
The fade to black will probably be a stopgap, or a default. Apple will expose APIs in their UI framework to let developers fill that space in full screen if they want to, but while no apps support it it’ll just become a bezel again.
Just for the record, I loved typing on the butterfly keyboard, and was significantly faster on it. Shame about the durability issues.
Same I liked it more than the newer scissor switches. But I do not miss the twinge of anxiety I got every time a key didn't register a click. "Is this it? Does the bell toll for thee!?" I would ask. And then I would wiggle the key and it would work as normal again. Repeat this every couple of weeks haha.
It took me about a day to prefer the new keyboard over the old one, but to be fair, I had to have my last keyboard replaced 4 times, and that iteration of keyboard was hot garbage.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
People on the internet seem very, very upset about the notch. Can't say I understand the sentiment much.
Anyway I ordered one, due to come early November 👀.. Very excited about having an M1 laptop now.
If the notch is the only thing people are upset about, I think that’s a resounding endorsement of this design. I knew there was speculation about Apple adding back ports and I/O that were stripped out in the ~2015 designs, but I wasn’t sure if Apple would actually opt to make a thicker chassis and add back MagSafe. It was a pleasant surprise. The notch is just a cosmetic thing, and I think in daily use, nobody will notice it. I’ve been using iPhones Pro with notches for going on 3 years now and I don’t notice it at all. I put in an order for a 14” as well, and I’ll see what the notch feels like on a larger display when it arrives. The one thing that worries me is that the weight of the devices seems to have gone up along with the volume.
Definitely for me. I use Clamshell Mode 24/7 with my old MBPs (2008 and 2012 models) and am long overdue for an upgrade. The notch would not bother me, and the notch in my iPhone 12 Mini has never bothered me either.
What's the advantage of clamshell mode over just having a second, smaller screen?
I used to keep my Slack and Calendar open on my MacBook Pro screen while doing all my work on the big screen, which was nice.
My work doesn’t give me a Mac, but I use clamshell mode on my windows laptop. I already have 2 large monitors on a stand. Leaving my laptop on the desk takes up way too much desk space (and I have a really big desk). To put it where I would want it, the keyboard section would be half falling off the desk anyway.
That is not to mention that the dell has a crappy screen. At least with any current Mac, the screen would be hi res and beautiful.
I don't want to impose on your workflow, but it'd be a shame to not see the beautiful display :/
A few people I saw in the wild have commented on it being thicker and maybe looking a bit uglier, but not saying that's a dealbreaker.
There are people out there saying the notch (which doesn't make the screen smaller than normal, or make it a shorter ratio screen than normal, and which you can hide completely) is a showstopper. One guy I saw on MacRumors (yes I know) who said he didn't buy an iPhone just because of the notch they have.
It's really odd how aggressive people seem to be about the thing that has the seemingly smallest impact.
I was going to complain about the notch, but then I realized I basically have a notch as well because of how thin the bezel on my monitor is and how thick my webcam is.
They added the notch but not FaceID? I just don't understand. Otherwise looks like a solid release.
The top enclosure where the screen is has nowhere near enough depth for the array of FaceID sensors that are currently used in the iPhones/iPads. Maybe if future iterations of those sensors can be put into a thinner depth-wise package, future revisions of this design could add FaceID in that notch? (The previous MacBook Pro enclosure design lasted some 6 years, so maybe within that timeframe it will be feasible that sensors can be miniaturized.) The lack of depth in that part of the laptop enclosure is the same constraint that limits laptop cameras. Any sort of optical sensors located above, below, to the side, or even behind the screen is going to be limited in such a design.
This, 100%.
"Why don't they just put the iPhone FaceID module in the lid?"
Because the phone is 7mm thick, and the display lid is 3-4. FaceID uses up all the depth in the phone, too - that's why the iPhone X (first one with FaceID) had a vertical camera array instead of horizontal (because the regular back cameras use up almost all the depth in the phone, too. So they can't overlap with Face ID.)
I wish the notch were smaller though; I don't use the webcam all, so I'd be happy with no camera at all, but I get why they did it. Like it or not, the notch is Apple design language now, and given the choice between a poor quality camera (like Dell with the XPS line) or a higher-quality camera and a notch, they've clearly decided the notch isn't bad enough to justify a low-quality camera.
I suspect the main issue is that they can't count on the laptop screen being at a good enough orientation for FaceID the way they can with the phone. Especially in use cases where people have dual monitors and keep the laptop itself a little off center or with people who still insist on having a webcam shutter.
Apple would probably be okay with people having scenarios where they simply can't use the feature (as with TouchID in clamshell mode). But scenarios where the feature will try to work but be frustrating would be a sticking point with design.
I'd assume the off-angle case is solvable with the same solution they use on the iPads Pro where an on-screen reminder points to the physical FaceID sensor array and tells the user to look at it (or gives you a message that the sensors are covered up, reminding you to uncover it).
In the laptops case it’s not even a matter of looking at it, you may need to completely reorient how you’re standing.
I felt the same until I realized they actually reduced the top bezel - they didn't drop down the notch into previous screen real estate. It seems like the notch could be much smaller, though. Without all the extra face ID sensors why do they need a solid inch of width?
Not only that, but when you open something full screen like a video, it puts a black bar on the top so it looks exactly like the pre notch screen.
So it seems like it's a solid machine and they are basically undoing all of the questionable decisions from the last six years. I love that they are bringing back MagSafe but keeping USB C charging. I haven't heard if the USB C charger supports the newer Power Delivery spec that goes up to 240W though.
But that screen has me asking so many questions...
Some of these decisions are baffling.
It's more the reverse: why not have a notch? Screen > bezel, after all. I'll take more screen. More screen is always nice. The main demerit would be increased engineer cost and supply cost, but we have no insight into those.
It helps that macOS works well with the notch. There's always a menu bar on top anyway, and the resolution below the notch is still 16:10 - you just get more screen.
I'd say MacOS is not designed for the notch - just look at how bad the menu bar looks with more than a few items. I'd rather not have a notch blocking off the middle of the menu bar. If space is of paramount concern, you can always enable automatic hiding of the menu bar. I used to have it on all the time with my 11-inch MacBook Air.
I think that looks fine. I’d take more screen space for that any day.
Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an option in Monterey to permanently black out the area next to the notch anyway, since that appears to be the default behavior when full screening an app.
There is.
This is what their laptops currently have; a large top bezel. Don't think of the notch as extending into the display; instead, think of it as extra room to the sides of the camera. (This isn't just me saying this, either - the displays are 16:10 aspect ratio, plus 74 pixels for the notch. So even if the entire space next to the notch were blacked out, you're not losing any space.)
Eh. This is getting more common now from everyone; it keeps the bezel a uniform thickness all the way around. Without rounding the display edges, you'd need to have sharper corners (like Dell's XPS line.) It's just a design decision that shouldn't have much of an impact on everyday use.
Probably because the top of the display is always has a menubar (system-controlled), but apps can draw on the bottom edge; so there might be info there that shouldn't be obscured.
Top level commenting this because it's a global observation of the thread.
That people are arguing about what ports should be included, with both "USB C is all I need" and "I'd trade thunderbolt for USB-A any day" being represented, along with "HDMI good" and "HDMI bad", means Framework is taking the right approach.
Ok, nice, this seems like a genuinely worthwhile professional machine - I don't need an upgrade quite yet, but the faster 14" or its immediate successor should be pretty much spot on. No idea why we lost MagSafe for those few years, but I'm incredibly happy to see it back, and I'm also pleased to see they didn't include USB-A; a card reader and HDMI make sense for specific tasks, but forcing device manufacturers to the new standard for general purpose connections is still a good thing.
I know they're likely just clearing stock of the old 13" ones, but the fact that they were still selling a "Pro" model with 8GB/256GB was kind of embarrassing four years ago, let alone today. Glad to see the 14" base spec bumped up to something more worthwhile, and I've got my fingers crossed they'll keep that moving as time goes on.
Dang, these look like really well-rounded laptops. Having an HDMI is a big win for usability in my book - and I'm sure anyone who works with media is very pleased with the return of the SD card reader.
I'm personally waiting for broader ARM support from the Linux ecosystem (not to mention Linux support on the M1 itself), so I won't be in the market for another four or five years - but I'll probably look at the 14" model or equivalent then.
Ehh, HDMI is probably the one port I would have done without. I feel that most people who will use external displays are people who are going to have some sort of docking solution that already integrates with their displays. But this is still great for people who are doing presentations and need to plug into random displays. For those, I'd much prefer a wireless options, but wireless display sharing isn't really universal and simple enough at this point in time.
Don't get me wrong, more connectivity is always great, especially on a "Pro" device, it's just that I'd personally rather see two full-sized USB-A ports because that's what's keeping me in dongle hell.
Linux has excellent ARM support. The problem is that nobody's using ARM CPUs in an open design and are full of proprietary parts that act like black boxes. You can run Linux on M1 right now - but you won't get the full features of the chip because Apple doesn't want to release any details on how those parts work and it's extremely complex to reverse-engineer.
I support any effort to force change to usb c. But on the other hand if I was picking the ports as you can on a framework laptop I’d go with just 1 Thunderbolt and 2 usb a.
Yes. Usb A needs to die. I have almost fully removed usb A from my life.
To be clear, it is nowhere near as bad as micro b or mini b, but usb c is better in every way.
I currently only use usb a for things that stay plugged in constantly. Charging areas, keyboards, oculus rift sensors, etc. my only frustration is that every manufacturer seems to want to add usb a to everything. I just wish someone would release some good cheap usb c hubs. I don’t need thunderbolt; even just a 5gbps hub would be great.
USB-A is better for external always-in devices like mouse dongles, tiny flash drives, WiFi adapters, etc.
It's also much sturdier (but, granted, that comes from the size).
There's no such thing as a design that is better in literally every way. In the case of USB-C there's a major flaw in that it wasn't designed to be cheap to manufacture. USB was originally designed to be a cheap all-in-one replacement for a number of relatively slow and low-powered devices. And the thing that USB-C fails at is providing an inexpensive connector.
USB-A was so simple that any half-decent machine shop could make a mostly-compatable male plug for fragments of a cent. But USB-C needs some rather expensive machines to get running, so there are additional costs involved in making goods that work with it, which is a cost that free-market capitalism encourages manufacturers to cut. That's why USB-A is going to stick around for a good long while.
That's just talking about the physical interface. Don't even get me started with signaling.
Bonus relavant XKCD
I just spent a few minutes on mouser. I found a surface mount usb c connector for 76¢, and a usb a connector for 77¢. I am sure if you spent more time you could find examples of usb a ports for much cheaper. However, for basically all cost ranges of devices, a 70¢ port is not going to significantly change the price of the product. The idea that a 60¢ connector is too expensive is a bad argument for any cost of device, except maybe <$10. I would gladly pay an extra $5 per device to be usb c, let alone $1.
Mass manufacturing makes things vastly more complex than "this part costs 77 cents". Generally speaking retail markups are going to cause the price to double multiple times depending on how many middlemen are involved. Those 77 cents can easily become $5, and that can be the difference between someone buying your product and the competition. That's why I brought up ease of machining - it's easy to make the connector yourself and get the costs down to the bare minimum. Even if you can't do that, the nature of the electronics market in Shenzhen makes it easy to buy directly from the manufacturer and avoid distributor markup.
You have choices; you don't have to buy the cheap stuff. I'm not trying to justify their existence, just to explain why it remains. USB-A is not likely to ever disappear completely. Though to be fair I expect it will disappear much sooner than the generic DC barrel jack.
I kind of agree with you, but at the same time, it's clear that Apple can't unilaterally change the computer market the same way they have with other markets.
I think it'll just take longer than it would with smartphones. People hang onto laptops and desktops for much longer than they do phones.
I'd trade one of the left Thunderbolt ports for USB-A any day. HDMI is basically good enough for me though because I do a lot of random presenting, and almost all of my uses for USB-A are with my own devices, which I can stick adapters on permanently.
With Linux on ARM I'm more concerned with packaged software support - one quite nice thing about Linux on x86 is you can run any software packaged for "Linux" with minimal fuss, and most for Windows with Wine. As far as I know no Rosetta2-style compatibility layer exists (unless QEMU does that?) .
These look like really solid machines. I'm very glad MagSafe and HDMI are back. My only major complaint is that the SSD is still not replaceable, which bugs me because it is essentially a wear item. With heavy use, it will die long before all the other components soldered to the motherboard.
The notch doesn't bother me. That space has been wasted on every Mac since wide aspect ratios became a thing.
The SSD being non-replaceable is one thing I've always been bugged by. As you said, it can be a limiting factor to how long the computer lasts (and if it costs $500+ to get it fixed, it's not worth it vs buying a new computer). Even Microsoft has been moving toward replaceable storage (albeit with a custom module).
Apple has actually being going the other way, pairing the SSD chips with the processor/T2 chip on newer computers. They claim it's for security, but it's way overkill for what most people need to keep their data secure.
Pairing the SSD with the T2 chip is a good security move, I like that they do this by default, for everyone. Windows is essentially doing this with your TPM chip whenever you use Bitlocker, though for everyday consumers they store a backup of the key on their Microsoft account, and power users are prompted to store their own copy of the key somewhere secure. The user's data isn't lost forever if their motherboard dies.
I think Apple should do the same: Offer iCloud storage of the users encryption key to make life easy for most users, and let power users keep a copy of the key wherever they want so they can plug an encrypted drive into another machine for data recovery.
But I guess it's all moot when Apple makes a conscious choice to solder the SSD to the motherboard. Even the top 1% of power users probably aren't going to go through the effort of removing those NAND chips and transplanting them to a new board.
Apple does the same as Microsoft and stores the decryption key in the cloud if you want (I think the option is called "Decrypt disk with Apple ID password" or something similar).
That sums up my though, honestly. It's way overkill for what most people need when it comes to stopping casual thieves and it won't be a barrier for something like a nation state that wants to get access to someone's data (although that's not something almost anyone has to worry about).
I think the problems it addresses are way outweighed by the disadvantages it poses to non tech savvy users. Look how hard it is to replace the SSD in a Mac Pro (the only one with a replaceable drive at this point) - you literally have to replace the entire T2 firmware using a process that involves having a second Mac laying around.
I think iCloud Activation Lock does way more to deter that type of activity and keeping user data safe than the pairing with the T2 does.
In The Anti-iPhone Linus argues that you don't really need a flagship phone for everyday use, I believe that's the future for computers also. We're building faster CPU's to run bloat.
I totally agree, and I actually think that's something that's been done well here: it's a return to making that "Pro" name a bit more meaningful.
Most people don't need this laptop, but the choice of benchmarks (compiling code, rendering 3D artwork, editing video) shows exactly who it's for - if you really do tasks like this every day for a living, it's a very compelling option.
Of course it'll carry some cachet because it's what the pros are using, and because it's expensive, and frankly just because it's got an Apple stamped on the back of the case, so there's definitely a non-pro market who'll still buy it and won't remotely be making use of the power, but that's a relatively small group in the scheme of things. The much larger population of people who might've bought a MacBook Pro a few years ago because it was kind of blurring itself into the consumer segment to make up for Apple's neglected and overpriced other ranges can now buy an M1 Air, or indeed any number of high quality Windows options, without feeling short changed.
Although if you’re considering an M1 air I can’t see what Windows option would be acceptable. The battery life and power of M1 laptops isn’t matched by any non Apple hardware.
I’m not a huge Apple fan but… I honestly can’t get excited about non Apple Silicon laptops right now.
I dunno, I have a Thinkpad T480 and while it doesn't last 18 hours, I also don't usually stay out and about for 18 hours a day. It also has a hot-swappable battery, so with my three battery packs I can probably get ~20 hours out of it if I need to - and in principle, I could extend that indefinitely. (On the other hand, it's running Linux; battery life may be worse under Windows.)
It's also worth mentioning that if you rely on software that's not blessed by Apple, it doesn't really matter how good the M1 is - it's simply not an option.
I use one for work and haven’t had any issues with software. But yeah I’m sure there are tons of applications that don’t run on it.
The 18 hour estimate isn’t what I’m thinking about. I’m thinking about how much video playback you can get out of it. If I’m not near an outlet it’s nice to get 7-8 hours of watch time.
Gotchya! Yeah, I don't have any trouble hitting that figure on my Thinkpad with the bigger battery pack - plus the screen is matte, so I can use it outside without a really high brightness.
The thing that's nice about having a 12+ hour battery life is not that you can use it continuously for that amount of time, but that it allows you to charge it infrequently. It allows you to run it for 8 Hours without needing a charger if you want it, or if you are the kind of person who needs to use it in short spurts, you can get away with charging it just once a week.
Though if you're in the latter category you probably don't need a $2000+ "pro" machine.
Totally! But again, I don't really have a problem with having to keep my Thinkpad docked to power all the time. I leave it wherever I was using it, and only dock it at my desk when I'm at my desk. It's rarely an issue.
Long battery life is good, don't get me wrong - but Apple didn't invent it.
Except that, of course, it's not available in a desktop or AIO form factor, which is by far what I see professional studio musicians and especially engineers, animators, and video editors using. I'm glad they've brought back some actual ports, since I'll probably be required to use one of these for work at some point, but it's a far cry from what I'd consider a viable "professional" machine. I'll need to attach it to a dock and a real monitor, at the very least.
Depends on your environment, I guess - I can only speak for software and video, but on both counts it's MacBook Pros as far as the eye can see in my experience. Many of them docked to extra monitors, for sure, but still going with the laptop to keep the core portable.
Could well be that I'm more used to seeing people who want to take their work on the road because I'm more closely surrounded by freelancers and small startups, so I can imagine larger companies with larger offices preferring to fit out fixed machines, but I can say with confidence that I could throw a rock and hit a professional who actively wants this laptop.
All that said, bring on the desktops/AOIs as well! I imagine the next round of Mac Minis will hit a hell of a price/power/performance ratio, although I'm making no bets on the Mac Pro line at this point.