I am pleased to announce that I am your resident mid-30s lady-person, and from the demographic data so far, I wouldn't be surprised if I was the only woman in her 30s on here.
I am pleased to announce that I am your resident mid-30s lady-person, and from the demographic data so far, I wouldn't be surprised if I was the only woman in her 30s on here.
There's an obscure science fiction novel by Joan Slonczewski, A Door Into Ocean, where the characters append their names with the character flaw they'd most like to overcome - anger,...
There's an obscure science fiction novel by Joan Slonczewski, A Door Into Ocean, where the characters append their names with the character flaw they'd most like to overcome - anger, forgetfulness, etc. So...
(in response to the live results, so may change) I still feel really conflicted about how left-skewed we are. Don't get me wrong I'm probably one of the most leftist users here but I fear the echo...
(in response to the live results, so may change)
I still feel really conflicted about how left-skewed we are. Don't get me wrong I'm probably one of the most leftist users here but I fear the echo chamber.
i'll repeat what i said in a thread awhile back that got into a discussion about this. people tend to fall into this notion that just because one side is represented makes a place an "echo...
I still feel really conflicted about how left-skewed we are. Don't get me wrong I'm probably one of the most leftist users here but I fear the echo chamber.
i'll repeat what i said in a thread awhile back that got into a discussion about this. people tend to fall into this notion that just because one side is represented makes a place an "echo chamber", which is just patently silly. the international "left" can be anything from a blue dog democrat to a conservative liberal to a liberal to a progressive to a social democrat to a communist to an anarchist, and you'd struggle to get any of these people to agree on anything except maybe some basic leftist ideas like 'don't treat the poor like shit' and 'climate change is an issue'.
i think if it was managed perfectly wrong, this place could eventually theoretically become an echo chamber, but even places like raddit which are clearly directed towards radical leftists and where 99% of the posters are anarchists and communists still have massive issues with sectarian divisions, so i'm skeptical that the echo chamber thing will be an issue.
Just to give a concrete example: Here in the Netherlands, the largest party VVD are liberals. Politically, they are pretty close to democrats in the US and yet no one, not even VVD members, would...
the international "left" can be anything
Just to give a concrete example: Here in the Netherlands, the largest party VVD are liberals. Politically, they are pretty close to democrats in the US and yet no one, not even VVD members, would hesitate to call it a right wing party.
So when people say we are "too left leaning" in a site where the majority are Americans, it doesn't ring true to me.
I personally find this place very centrist. There's slight left bend to which side of that it's on, but most popular opinions seem to still be very much pro-free market, pro-capitalism, pro-status...
I personally find this place very centrist. There's slight left bend to which side of that it's on, but most popular opinions seem to still be very much pro-free market, pro-capitalism, pro-status quo with minor tweaks rather than complete overhaul.
I think the biggest thing tildes has in it's favor is the fact that everyone (for the most part) responds civily. You can lean left or right or radically left or radically right but as long as you...
I think the biggest thing tildes has in it's favor is the fact that everyone (for the most part) responds civily. You can lean left or right or radically left or radically right but as long as you can express yourself with civility and an understanding that others are no less human for holding opposing views the echo chamber will not form.
Being right of center on most issues and even far right on some I don't feel a real inhibition to respond (I still rarely post though) since the things I believe can be expressed in a way that a reasonable person would see where I come from and understand that my particular beliefs stem from my experiences with the world and not an antagonism towards some opposing views.
As long as both sides can post what they believe civily, even if it skews one way or the other, the echo chamber will not form.
There's a balance between too much and too little, and I think you swung too far. I filled out all the answers, but there was a point where I thought what the hell how long is this thing and...
There's a balance between too much and too little, and I think you swung too far. I filled out all the answers, but there was a point where I thought what the hell how long is this thing and looked at the scroll bar in horror.
Either way, thank you so much for putting the time into doing something like this. I think it's important to help surface issues with potential echo chambers forming, too much emphasis on any particular topic or at the least let us have an idea of what our demographics look like and what we expect to happen on the website because of it.
I despise the fact that English (or maybe just US) keyboards don't have an em dash—one of the handiest, most versatile punctuation marks in existence. I get really sick of typing Alt+0151, but I...
I despise the fact that English (or maybe just US) keyboards don't have an em dash—one of the handiest, most versatile punctuation marks in existence. I get really sick of typing Alt+0151, but I refuse to use the abomination that is the dreaded double hyphen-minus that is so ubiquitous.
It didn't say it was device-specific, I said it was happening on your device (rather than on Kat's device or on the Tildes website). And the Safari browser is on your device. EDIT: Typo.
It didn't say it was device-specific, I said it was happening on your device (rather than on Kat's device or on the Tildes website). And the Safari browser is on your device.
So you can type three types of hyphens on tildes, - – — This is what you type to get them to appear - – — Here is an explanation of the difference between them. Scratch that you can...
So you can type three types of hyphens on tildes, - – —
This is what you type to get them to appear - – —
Here is an explanation of the difference between them.
Scratch that you can type anything by using the html representation, here is that proper hyphen: ‐ ‐ I'm guessing that your browser doesn't have the correct character for it.
I find it easiest to just use – or — when a regular hyphen is not enough.
Just look at Kats reply below, really should refresh the page before editing my reply.
I would argue those are typographic symbols and not English language marks. If that makes any sense. In handwritten English, the distance of the mark doesn't matter, and there is just a combined...
I would argue those are typographic symbols and not English language marks. If that makes any sense. In handwritten English, the distance of the mark doesn't matter, and there is just a combined hyphen-dash-minus that just has a different name depending on how it's used.
So far, the average Tildes user looks like a young white non-religious politically left leaning Linux using American dude, with above average representations of LGBT. I'm a young white...
So far, the average Tildes user looks like a young white non-religious politically left leaning Linux using American dude, with above average representations of LGBT. I'm a young white non-religious politically left leaning Linux using half-American dude who's gay. I don't think I could get any more average here if I tried lol. :D
I'd be curious for an entry about Asperger's syndrome / ASD, they're not classified as mental illnesses or disabilities afaik, but to see how many other people here have it.
I think the reason for the makeup of the users here is down to why they joined. The only reason we don't just all use reddit is we aren't satisfied with reddit and a bunch of different websites...
I think the reason for the makeup of the users here is down to why they joined. The only reason we don't just all use reddit is we aren't satisfied with reddit and a bunch of different websites have come up for people who are dissatisfied for different reasons for example voat is reddit for people whos opinions are too racist to be posted on reddit and raddle is for people who want destroy any form of structure usually through illegal means. I think where tildes fits in is it's the reddit for people who think reddit has become too corporate and has sacrificed quality of conversation and page loading times for maximizing metrics so they can sell more ads. The people who left reddit to avoid corporate crap are also the people who left windows so it makes sense.
they're not classified as mental illnesses or disabilities afaik
I was told that Asperger's was classified as mild autism. I might be wrong on that though.
I was diagnosed a couple years ago and it was just ASD, I think they stopped diagnosing Asperger's specifically because I'm pretty sure that's what I have.
I was told that Asperger's was classified as mild autism. I might be wrong on that though.
I was diagnosed a couple years ago and it was just ASD, I think they stopped diagnosing Asperger's specifically because I'm pretty sure that's what I have.
They were in the DSM IV, the psychological diagnosis guidelines. When they released the next revision, DSM V, they were all rolled into 'Autism Spectrum Disorder', and the guidelines are much...
I'd be curious for an entry about Asperger's syndrome / ASD, they're not classified as mental illnesses or disabilities afaik, but to see how many other people here have it.
They were in the DSM IV, the psychological diagnosis guidelines. When they released the next revision, DSM V, they were all rolled into 'Autism Spectrum Disorder', and the guidelines are much stricter about what counts, and what doesn't. It also means that disability is measured on a spectrum, meaning that these illnesses may be a disability, or may not, each individual will be different. However, they are still a mental illness, just a new name. ASD under DSM V, still a mental illness, but treating things a little more humanely, with a spectrum, acknowledging each individual has a few differences.
IDK about technical definitions but I answered Yes, to the point of disability based on ASD. I'm maybe on the line between disability and non-disability, but the fact that I dropped out of college...
IDK about technical definitions but I answered Yes, to the point of disability based on ASD. I'm maybe on the line between disability and non-disability, but the fact that I dropped out of college because I can't pass certain classes and I still don't have a job sounds like disability to me.
I've got Windows, Ubuntu, and even macOS on my computer, but I rarely use Ubuntu or macOS because they don't really offer anything Windows doesn't. Especially since Windows 10 has a Ubuntu...
I've got Windows, Ubuntu, and even macOS on my computer, but I rarely use Ubuntu or macOS because they don't really offer anything Windows doesn't. Especially since Windows 10 has a Ubuntu terminal available.
Yep, I'm at that stage now. I'm too lazy to reboot before and after when I want to play an unsupported game so I just stay on Windows. I'd like to set up GPU passthrough eventually for the couple...
Yep, I'm at that stage now. I'm too lazy to reboot before and after when I want to play an unsupported game so I just stay on Windows. I'd like to set up GPU passthrough eventually for the couple of games that don't really work with Wine or Proton.
I think #25 could be better. This doesn't leave much room for casual drinkers who are also introverts (like myself). I selected "only socially" since that's probably the best fit for me...
I think #25 could be better.
Do you drink alcohol?
No, not at all - never
No, not at all - I've quit
Only socially
Yes, regularly; not trying to quit
Yes, regularly; trying to quit
This doesn't leave much room for casual drinkers who are also introverts (like myself). I selected "only socially" since that's probably the best fit for me frequency-wise.
Since I'm on the topic, I think it might be interesting to get demographic information on specific drug use (I'm sure @Cocoa would like the stats).
"Social" drinking/smoking/etc is a widely accepted euphemism for partaking irregularly/conditionally, not just the literal meaning the word implies. I think you did the right thing. There's also...
"Social" drinking/smoking/etc is a widely accepted euphemism for partaking irregularly/conditionally, not just the literal meaning the word implies. I think you did the right thing. There's also value in preserving and repeating specific questions for longitudinal study so as not to pollute the data with differing/confused interpretations of language. I would prefer if the wording stayed (not just here, but everywhere it's practical).
There would be no problem in changing "Only socially" to "Occasionally" or "Not regularly" (without adding any extra answers). Social drinkers would select "Occasionally" with no difficulty, and...
There would be no problem in changing "Only socially" to "Occasionally" or "Not regularly" (without adding any extra answers). Social drinkers would select "Occasionally" with no difficulty, and solo drinkers wouldn't feel like there wasn't an option for them.
I agree. I mostly drink in non - social situations - with my partner and during meals. That seems neither like social drinking, nor the quasi-alcoholism the "not trying to quit" clause implies.
I agree. I mostly drink in non - social situations - with my partner and during meals. That seems neither like social drinking, nor the quasi-alcoholism the "not trying to quit" clause implies.
I think the same for smoking cigarettes. I occasionally do socially, like I can count on one hand over the past year, but it's never been habitual for me.
I think the same for smoking cigarettes. I occasionally do socially, like I can count on one hand over the past year, but it's never been habitual for me.
I smiled when I saw that English was listed last in the question about native languages. I had a bit of trouble with the question about education because my level of qualification wasn't listed as...
I smiled when I saw that English was listed last in the question about native languages.
I had a bit of trouble with the question about education because my level of qualification wasn't listed as an option. I had to check Wikipedia to understand some of the options offered (they're all US-centric), and it turned out that none of them are equivalent to my qualification. I therefore chose an option which I believe is closest in number of years of study to my qualification, but which was still not an exact match - which meant I had to slightly overstate my level of education.
The question about the mix of political opinions on Tildes was worded strangely: "Do you feel as though Tildes has a good mix of political opinions, for your personal preferences?" The question was asking for my personal preference, but the answers were all negative: "No, Tildes leans too far X." If one was a rabid left-winger, then one's personal preference might be for a Tildes full of other left-wingers. In that case, there would be no such thing as Tildes leaning too far left. In fact, if Tildes was evenly balanced in political opinions, one might then complain that Tildes leans too far to the centre (or even too far to the right!) for one's own personal preference. I thought this could have been worded a little more neutrally: "How would you assess the overall political leanings of people on Tildes? Left-wing, centrist, right-wing?"
And, I felt very uncomfortable answering the question about "certain high‐activity or influential users"!
Interesting. For me, the answers to those questions seemed to be presented in a "default" order: hetero first, homo second, others after. :) It also gave me a nice (if slightly guilty) feeling to...
the options are shuffled on page load [...] Also done to the gender and orientation questions, for example.
Interesting. For me, the answers to those questions seemed to be presented in a "default" order: hetero first, homo second, others after. :)
Rounding to the nearest‐appropriate is fine.
It also gave me a nice (if slightly guilty) feeling to be "forced" to identify as having a Master's degree! ;)
Yes, that’s by design; in the quoted example, they would answer “Yes” to the question, because it would be to their preference. That was the data point I was trying to gather.
Oops! I may have contaminated your data by answering the question I thought you meant to ask. Sorry.
OK, but not listing that one weird ass Aussie degree you achieved (which, while impressive, no one else has ever heard) of isn't being US-centric. It's just good survey design.
OK, but not listing that one weird ass Aussie degree you achieved (which, while impressive, no one else has ever heard) of isn't being US-centric. It's just good survey design.
I agree. However, the options that were available to choose from were clearly based on the US educational structure rather than any other country's educational structure (i.e. they were US-centric...
but not listing that one weird ass Aussie degree you achieved of isn't being US-centric.
I agree.
However, the options that were available to choose from were clearly based on the US educational structure rather than any other country's educational structure (i.e. they were US-centric options).
And I wasn't complaining that my "weird ass" (what does that even mean - that my donkey or bottom is strange?) Australian qualification wasn't listed. I was explaining why my answer to that question doesn't reflect my actual qualification.
I'd like to note one area of possible inaccuracy in the survey. There's a huge preponderance of people who indicated their industry of employment as "computer software" or "information technology...
I'd like to note one area of possible inaccuracy in the survey. There's a huge preponderance of people who indicated their industry of employment as "computer software" or "information technology and services".
While I don't doubt that these are common professions among Tildes users, I'd be a little skeptical (and potentially concerned) that our primary industrial output is code and information services. As an example, my profession is "information technology and services", but the industry which employs me is healthcare.
In future surveys, could we have profession and industry as two separate questions, just to tease this apart somewhat?
I had the "pleasure" of running the r/SpaceX annual community surveys where we'd get 2000+ results every year—along with the myriads of complaints and accusations that went along with it. I can...
I had the "pleasure" of running the r/SpaceX annual community surveys where we'd get 2000+ results every year—along with the myriads of complaints and accusations that went along with it. I can absolutely relate to your anguish in every possible metric :).
The questions you include should be determined by the purpose of your survey and its theoretical foundation. If you're interested in, say, representation for the purposes of recruitment then it...
The questions you include should be determined by the purpose of your survey and its theoretical foundation. If you're interested in, say, representation for the purposes of recruitment then it makes sense to inquire about demographic characteristics, political orientation, even OS use since that can represent certain subcultures. But I wouldn't expect browser use to be representative of any group. On the other hand, if you're surveying UX then browser use is a useful question. Of course, you may also include experimental questions based on a hunch or to test a hypothesis.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about not including every potentially useful question if you didn't already have a good reason to include that question.
It's definitely a looser relation, but Firefox can imply a more privacy or open source focus and default browsers like IE, Edge, Safari can imply not really caring (though I wouldn't be surprised...
But I wouldn't expect browser use to be representative of any group.
It's definitely a looser relation, but Firefox can imply a more privacy or open source focus and default browsers like IE, Edge, Safari can imply not really caring (though I wouldn't be surprised if literally no one on this site uses any of those three regularly).
Then there are the "third party" browsers like Vivaldi and Brave that can maybe imply willingness to try something more experimental or out of the mainstream.
That's a reasonable hypothesis. But 1. Do you have evidence to support those correlations? Or is it a hunch? Or is it a hypothesis that you want to test? Are "people who care about privacy" and...
That's a reasonable hypothesis.
But 1. Do you have evidence to support those correlations? Or is it a hunch? Or is it a hypothesis that you want to test?
Are "people who care about privacy" and "people who prefer default browsers" relevant to the recruitment process of Tildes (or whatever the explicit purpose of the survey is)? And if that is important, is asking about browser preference the best way of inferring that information versus, say, just asking "how important is privacy to you?"
I'm not saying browser use may not be an interesting demographic question. I'm more commenting on the fact that with any survey you pick questions that serve the overall purpose of that survey, and when you design a survey you do not need to worry about trying to include every possible question that might or might not be relevant.
Only being able to pick one thing from the Education bit is slightly annoying. I have academic and and "vocational" qualifications, and consider them equal.
Only being able to pick one thing from the Education bit is slightly annoying. I have academic and and "vocational" qualifications, and consider them equal.
Three years at university to get a degree and three years at college/industry placements to get City & Guilds qualifications. Both equally demanding and requiring comparable dedication and...
Three years at university to get a degree and three years at college/industry placements to get City & Guilds qualifications.
Both equally demanding and requiring comparable dedication and commitment levels.
So, the workaround for accurate study data might be, "years of post-secondary education" with significant bands, like 0 - 2 years, 2 - 4 years, 4 - 6 years, etc.
So, the workaround for accurate study data might be, "years of post-secondary education" with significant bands, like 0 - 2 years, 2 - 4 years, 4 - 6 years, etc.
"Highest level of education achieved" is indeed a complicated question - I've got more years of post-secondary study in vocational certifications (both culinary and technical) than for the...
"Highest level of education achieved" is indeed a complicated question - I've got more years of post-secondary study in vocational certifications (both culinary and technical) than for the 18-month graduate degree, and a dual-Bachelor's that took about six years, not counting an M.D. program that I dropped out of after a year.
This was difficult to answer since I don't know what the question intends to ask. If the question were "Have you been the subject of a substantial amount of internet abuse" I would have said yes....
Would you say that you’ve been the victim of a substantial amount of internet abuse?
This was difficult to answer since I don't know what the question intends to ask.
If the question were "Have you been the subject of a substantial amount of internet abuse" I would have said yes. I've had some high profile accounts on some forums and sites before, and that's drawn a large number of haters at times. I would definitely say I've been subject to vast amounts of internet abuse at times.
I have a hard time saying I've been a victim though. I try to keep a fair distance between my online life and IRL. I'm from an age on the internet where no one gave out their real name. Everyone took on pseudonyms and avatars and no one took things too seriously.
So, I've dealt with lots of trolls in my time. I've dealt with people trying to doxx me, I've had people on IRC go on a campaign to try and DDOS my IP for days on end. In the end though, the only people online who know my IRL identity are people I've trusted with that info, and I've never actually felt in danger or victimized by any actions anyone has done online.
Sooo, no? Yes maybe, but I'm probably not the demographic you're looking for for your thing.
I think there could be an additional degree of nuance to the abuse question as well. I've been harassed on reddit quite a few times although the blocking and reporting functions were mostly enough...
I think there could be an additional degree of nuance to the abuse question as well. I've been harassed on reddit quite a few times although the blocking and reporting functions were mostly enough to deal with it. But did it make me think twice before sticking my neck out to opine about similar issues? Absolutely.
I get that you're trying to ask whether harassment has reached a critical level where the user leaves a platform over it, for example, but I think some people who've received harassment might be hiding in the 'no' answer just because they feel their experience wasn't 'bad enough' to qualify for that.
Ok, got it. So just FYI to future historians or whatnot, I've been the recipient of volumes of abuse online. It's just I've never considered myself a victim per se, so I answered "No" to the question.
Ok, got it. So just FYI to future historians or whatnot, I've been the recipient of volumes of abuse online. It's just I've never considered myself a victim per se, so I answered "No" to the question.
I've also copped a lot of abuse as a moderator of some particular subreddits on Reddit, so I chose to answer "yes" because, in the early days when first started happening, I felt victimised (these...
I've also copped a lot of abuse as a moderator of some particular subreddits on Reddit, so I chose to answer "yes" because, in the early days when first started happening, I felt victimised (these days, I'm less sensitive to it).
For the ethnicity question maybe there could be a mixed option of some sort included? I'm not sure how well you'd be able to integrate that but right now I'm counted as white AND black but I'm one...
For the ethnicity question maybe there could be a mixed option of some sort included? I'm not sure how well you'd be able to integrate that but right now I'm counted as white AND black but I'm one person. Like I've been listed twice in the survey results if you get what I mean. Or is there a way to see how many people imputed two or more ethnicities?
I entered "none" for it because I don't identify with an ethnicity listed there (or any other). Ethnicity is a bit of a complex issue because what's considered an ethnicity and the definition of...
I entered "none" for it because I don't identify with an ethnicity listed there (or any other). Ethnicity is a bit of a complex issue because what's considered an ethnicity and the definition of it seems to vary. Apparently in the US it's similar to race, but it's used (more correctly, IMO) in other places to mean more of a cultural/traditional identity. In that case, something like Middle Easterner is way too broad to be meaningful.
I think a more effective way to present this question is to ask whether someone considers themselves as part of a minority, both for country of residence and that of birth, and allowing multiple choice for what sort of minority that is: (ir)religious, ethnic, racial(1), political, sexual/of-gender. Combined with the selections of countries, this might yield more informative results, not tied to some local definition of ethinicity, race, right/left wing politics, etc.
(1) I don't think human racial distinctions have any rational basis whatsoever, but still useful to include given the concept has not died off among the general public yet, unfortunately.
I agree. "Jewish" is a particularly messy category globally - in some places it's a race (and that race is not "white"), in others it's an ethnicity, and in still others it's religiously...
I agree. "Jewish" is a particularly messy category globally - in some places it's a race (and that race is not "white"), in others it's an ethnicity, and in still others it's religiously affiliated only. For purposes of the survey, as an atheist American Jew, I selected both "white" and "Middle Eastern" (since that's what my phenotypic race/ethnicity is usually mistaken for).
That's funny, all of the jewish guys I've known were white like milk. Personally I think race is one of the most degrading types of categorisation, so much so as to be deeply insulting, in and of...
and that race is not "white"
That's funny, all of the jewish guys I've known were white like milk.
Personally I think race is one of the most degrading types of categorisation, so much so as to be deeply insulting, in and of itself, even when unrelated to any sort of discrimination, let aside big disasters like genocide or slavery. It's more obsolete than alchemy.
South Florida suntan, olive-toned. With a non-Anglo-Saxon given name that gets all kinds of ethnic labels, and a surname that Ellis Island bastardized into incomprehensibility. TSA regularly asks...
South Florida suntan, olive-toned. With a non-Anglo-Saxon given name that gets all kinds of ethnic labels, and a surname that Ellis Island bastardized into incomprehensibility. TSA regularly asks what country I'm from, but usually guesses Mexican or Middle Eastern.
I can't tell you how much I agree about race; Homo sapiens is the least genetically diverse mammal on the planet.
At the same time, I understand why it's a useful demographic question, since we've artificially created different social pressures on people by virtue of something as ephemeral and insignificant as skin pigmentation.
I think Tildes does not have enough diversity. Young, technology-focused, anglo-saxon, leftists. This is because all people are conming from anglo-saxon countries. Tildes would benefit a lot to...
I think Tildes does not have enough diversity. Young, technology-focused, anglo-saxon, leftists. This is because all people are conming from anglo-saxon countries.
Tildes would benefit a lot to internationalize it's interface and allow discussions and groups in several languages. This would allow people with different opinions and cultures to meet and discuss each others. Sadly, Deimos said he doesn't care of i18n right now and he see it as a long-term goal. For myself, I think this should be a high priority to allow people to talk in their own language to allow different cultures to meet.
How can people of two different cultures 'meet' through text if they are speaking a different language? If the goal is to be multicultural, the most obvious choice of action is to have everyone...
How can people of two different cultures 'meet' through text if they are speaking a different language? If the goal is to be multicultural, the most obvious choice of action is to have everyone speak one of the most common languages spoken around the globe. That language is currently English.
I suppose it would be nice if there was native language for the interface for those who are trying to understand the structure of the website, but it seems misguided to put that much effort into internationalization when all the content is going to be in English to begin with.
Delaying i18n and keeping the site English-only is a very pragmatic, reasonable decision given where Tildes is at right now. Right now the trust & moderation system is in its infancy. We can label...
Delaying i18n and keeping the site English-only is a very pragmatic, reasonable decision given where Tildes is at right now.
Right now the trust & moderation system is in its infancy. We can label comments noise/off-topic/malice and so on, but taking any actions on those (removing comments, locking threads, warning/banning users, etc) is single-threaded around Deimos reading them.
If languages other than English were permitted, and had enough speakers to achieve a critical mass of discussion, there'd be the immediate problem that those discussions would be de facto exempt from any moderation or rules enforcement (short of ugly hacks like Deimos running comments through Google Translate).
Long-term, Tildes should absolutely be a global site with a global audience, including discussions in languages other than English. Even though I'm a native English speaker I'd love to be able to use Tildes as a Duolingo-like way to brush up on my Spanish or learn another language. But the site isn't mature enough for that yet.
Offtopic meta-discussion (so please label it as such) - I think one of the things these sorts of topics highlight is how we really need a way to sticky them (or some equivalent mechanism) in order...
Offtopic meta-discussion (so please label it as such) - I think one of the things these sorts of topics highlight is how we really need a way to sticky them (or some equivalent mechanism) in order to help promote them and keep them visible. These high effort to create, high quality topics are usually incredibly worthwhile/valuable IMO but also often don't get many comments so they disappear way way way too quickly off most peoples' front pages, where number & frequency of comments is currently king due to activity sort. I love activity sort but that's definitely a serious weakness of it that is going to need to be eventually addressed somehow.
Indeed. A mechanism to shine the spotlight on quality is needed, we've talked about plenty of them in the past so I'll avoid rehashing them here again. I think the way the exemplary comments have...
Indeed. A mechanism to shine the spotlight on quality is needed, we've talked about plenty of them in the past so I'll avoid rehashing them here again. I think the way the exemplary comments have been playing out shows that the positive feedback effect is very, very real and we can harness it in the future.
We don't need to dive into that content management quagmire yet, though. Right now for this quiet little place, a simple static banner would do it. Contents would be the survey, the latest 'welcome to tildes' intro for new users, any 'open for feedback' threads from ~tildes.official. Seems like we're describing an 'ongoing event' class of posts.
Live results confirm that almost everyone on this website is pretty much the same as me. Expected but interesting.
I am pleased to announce that I am your resident mid-30s lady-person, and from the demographic data so far, I wouldn't be surprised if I was the only woman in her 30s on here.
There's at least one more of us, although at this point I might be pushing it calling myself "mid" 30s.
Ha, I'm happy to hear I'm not alone :)
Greetings from (perhaps) the sole early-50s woman here.
Nope, there are at least two of us (wise-ards? cronettes?).
Wise-ards, I like that, almost as much as I like -- and relate to -- your username.
There's an obscure science fiction novel by Joan Slonczewski, A Door Into Ocean, where the characters append their names with the character flaw they'd most like to overcome - anger, forgetfulness, etc. So...
Wonderful to have you here!
Aw, thank you!
Likewise!
I thought I'd be in the most prevalent age group, but it turns out I'm getting old. Even more rare to be a parent on this site too.
(in response to the live results, so may change)
I still feel really conflicted about how left-skewed we are. Don't get me wrong I'm probably one of the most leftist users here but I fear the echo chamber.
i'll repeat what i said in a thread awhile back that got into a discussion about this. people tend to fall into this notion that just because one side is represented makes a place an "echo chamber", which is just patently silly. the international "left" can be anything from a blue dog democrat to a conservative liberal to a liberal to a progressive to a social democrat to a communist to an anarchist, and you'd struggle to get any of these people to agree on anything except maybe some basic leftist ideas like 'don't treat the poor like shit' and 'climate change is an issue'.
i think if it was managed perfectly wrong, this place could eventually theoretically become an echo chamber, but even places like raddit which are clearly directed towards radical leftists and where 99% of the posters are anarchists and communists still have massive issues with sectarian divisions, so i'm skeptical that the echo chamber thing will be an issue.
Just to give a concrete example: Here in the Netherlands, the largest party VVD are liberals. Politically, they are pretty close to democrats in the US and yet no one, not even VVD members, would hesitate to call it a right wing party.
So when people say we are "too left leaning" in a site where the majority are Americans, it doesn't ring true to me.
What do you get when you put two leftists in a room together?
*
*
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Three splinter groups...
I personally find this place very centrist. There's slight left bend to which side of that it's on, but most popular opinions seem to still be very much pro-free market, pro-capitalism, pro-status quo with minor tweaks rather than complete overhaul.
I think the biggest thing tildes has in it's favor is the fact that everyone (for the most part) responds civily. You can lean left or right or radically left or radically right but as long as you can express yourself with civility and an understanding that others are no less human for holding opposing views the echo chamber will not form.
Being right of center on most issues and even far right on some I don't feel a real inhibition to respond (I still rarely post though) since the things I believe can be expressed in a way that a reasonable person would see where I come from and understand that my particular beliefs stem from my experiences with the world and not an antagonism towards some opposing views.
As long as both sides can post what they believe civily, even if it skews one way or the other, the echo chamber will not form.
There's a balance between too much and too little, and I think you swung too far. I filled out all the answers, but there was a point where I thought what the hell how long is this thing and looked at the scroll bar in horror.
Either way, thank you so much for putting the time into doing something like this. I think it's important to help surface issues with potential echo chambers forming, too much emphasis on any particular topic or at the least let us have an idea of what our demographics look like and what we expect to happen on the website because of it.
what type of barbarian uses the white theme
in my case, it blends in better with safari on an iPhone, and I use it during the day mostly.
Agreed. That's the only place I use white. Everywhere else, I use Dracula. I really hope it becomes a default theme at some point.
I despise the fact that English (or maybe just US) keyboards don't have an em dash—one of the handiest, most versatile punctuation marks in existence. I get really sick of typing Alt+0151, but I refuse to use the abomination that is the dreaded double hyphen-minus that is so ubiquitous.
I use Chrome and it renders fine for me.
I appreciate your punctuation-snobbery.
punctuation pedantry *
I see them as normal hyphens. Maybe it's something on your device, rather than something happening at @Kat's end or on Tildes itself.
It didn't say it was device-specific, I said it was happening on your device (rather than on Kat's device or on the Tildes website). And the Safari browser is on your device.
EDIT: Typo.
So you can type three types of hyphens on tildes, - – —
This is what you type to get them to appear
- – —Here is an explanation of the difference between them.
Scratch that you can type anything by using the html representation, here is that proper hyphen: ‐
‐I'm guessing that your browser doesn't have the correct character for it.I find it easiest to just use
–or—when a regular hyphen is not enough.Just look at Kats reply below, really should refresh the page before editing my reply.
Yeah wow, way more then I thought.
I would argue those are typographic symbols and not English language marks. If that makes any sense. In handwritten English, the distance of the mark doesn't matter, and there is just a combined hyphen-dash-minus that just has a different name depending on how it's used.
The em dash and en dash have far different uses than a hyphen, and should be handwritten at their (approximately) proper lengths.
Nope.
No.
Nuh uh.
Aint happening bub.
Based on your excellent survey, I think it might be fundamentally flawed to try to create a moniker for a group of unruly disestablishmentarianists.
And yet it seems to be the third most popular choice for a demonym.
And marmite is the second plus the third most popular yeast spread in Australia.
So far, the average Tildes user looks like a young white non-religious politically left leaning Linux using American dude, with above average representations of LGBT. I'm a young white non-religious politically left leaning Linux using half-American dude who's gay. I don't think I could get any more average here if I tried lol. :D
I'd be curious for an entry about Asperger's syndrome / ASD, they're not classified as mental illnesses or disabilities afaik, but to see how many other people here have it.
I think the reason for the makeup of the users here is down to why they joined. The only reason we don't just all use reddit is we aren't satisfied with reddit and a bunch of different websites have come up for people who are dissatisfied for different reasons for example voat is reddit for people whos opinions are too racist to be posted on reddit and raddle is for people who want destroy any form of structure usually through illegal means. I think where tildes fits in is it's the reddit for people who think reddit has become too corporate and has sacrificed quality of conversation and page loading times for maximizing metrics so they can sell more ads. The people who left reddit to avoid corporate crap are also the people who left windows so it makes sense.
I was told that Asperger's was classified as mild autism. I might be wrong on that though.
I was diagnosed a couple years ago and it was just ASD, I think they stopped diagnosing Asperger's specifically because I'm pretty sure that's what I have.
They were in the DSM IV, the psychological diagnosis guidelines. When they released the next revision, DSM V, they were all rolled into 'Autism Spectrum Disorder', and the guidelines are much stricter about what counts, and what doesn't. It also means that disability is measured on a spectrum, meaning that these illnesses may be a disability, or may not, each individual will be different. However, they are still a mental illness, just a new name. ASD under DSM V, still a mental illness, but treating things a little more humanely, with a spectrum, acknowledging each individual has a few differences.
IDK about technical definitions but I answered
Yes, to the point of disabilitybased on ASD. I'm maybe on the line between disability and non-disability, but the fact that I dropped out of college because I can't pass certain classes and I still don't have a job sounds like disability to me.At least this time I didn't have to relive the pain of clicking "Windows". The years of half-assed dual booting are over.
I've got Windows, Ubuntu, and even macOS on my computer, but I rarely use Ubuntu or macOS because they don't really offer anything Windows doesn't. Especially since Windows 10 has a Ubuntu terminal available.
Yep, I'm at that stage now. I'm too lazy to reboot before and after when I want to play an unsupported game so I just stay on Windows. I'd like to set up GPU passthrough eventually for the couple of games that don't really work with Wine or Proton.
I think #25 could be better.
This doesn't leave much room for casual drinkers who are also introverts (like myself). I selected "only socially" since that's probably the best fit for me frequency-wise.
Since I'm on the topic, I think it might be interesting to get demographic information on specific drug use (I'm sure @Cocoa would like the stats).
"Social" drinking/smoking/etc is a widely accepted euphemism for partaking irregularly/conditionally, not just the literal meaning the word implies. I think you did the right thing. There's also value in preserving and repeating specific questions for longitudinal study so as not to pollute the data with differing/confused interpretations of language. I would prefer if the wording stayed (not just here, but everywhere it's practical).
There would be no problem in changing "Only socially" to "Occasionally" or "Not regularly" (without adding any extra answers). Social drinkers would select "Occasionally" with no difficulty, and solo drinkers wouldn't feel like there wasn't an option for them.
I agree. I mostly drink in non - social situations - with my partner and during meals. That seems neither like social drinking, nor the quasi-alcoholism the "not trying to quit" clause implies.
I think the same for smoking cigarettes. I occasionally do socially, like I can count on one hand over the past year, but it's never been habitual for me.
Just a small point on the relationship question needing a little expansion - I'm married, but seperated.
Ah, edge cases.
I'm also married, but separated. It's hardly an edge case these days
I think it's safe to safe that you're our official unofficial resident demographer.
I smiled when I saw that English was listed last in the question about native languages.
I had a bit of trouble with the question about education because my level of qualification wasn't listed as an option. I had to check Wikipedia to understand some of the options offered (they're all US-centric), and it turned out that none of them are equivalent to my qualification. I therefore chose an option which I believe is closest in number of years of study to my qualification, but which was still not an exact match - which meant I had to slightly overstate my level of education.
The question about the mix of political opinions on Tildes was worded strangely: "Do you feel as though Tildes has a good mix of political opinions, for your personal preferences?" The question was asking for my personal preference, but the answers were all negative: "No, Tildes leans too far X." If one was a rabid left-winger, then one's personal preference might be for a Tildes full of other left-wingers. In that case, there would be no such thing as Tildes leaning too far left. In fact, if Tildes was evenly balanced in political opinions, one might then complain that Tildes leans too far to the centre (or even too far to the right!) for one's own personal preference. I thought this could have been worded a little more neutrally: "How would you assess the overall political leanings of people on Tildes? Left-wing, centrist, right-wing?"
And, I felt very uncomfortable answering the question about "certain high‐activity or influential users"!
Interesting. For me, the answers to those questions seemed to be presented in a "default" order: hetero first, homo second, others after. :)
It also gave me a nice (if slightly guilty) feeling to be "forced" to identify as having a Master's degree! ;)
Oops! I may have contaminated your data by answering the question I thought you meant to ask. Sorry.
Education levels looks fairly consistent with Aus...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Qualifications_Framework#Diploma,_Advanced_diploma,_Associate_degree
I was trying to find an equivalent to a post-graduate qualification between the Bachelor's and Master's degrees, not an under-graduate qualification.
OK, but not listing that one weird ass Aussie degree you achieved (which, while impressive, no one else has ever heard) of isn't being US-centric. It's just good survey design.
I agree.
However, the options that were available to choose from were clearly based on the US educational structure rather than any other country's educational structure (i.e. they were US-centric options).
And I wasn't complaining that my "weird ass" (what does that even mean - that my donkey or bottom is strange?) Australian qualification wasn't listed. I was explaining why my answer to that question doesn't reflect my actual qualification.
You have an odd donkey.
It has been giving me some trouble lately...
I'd like to note one area of possible inaccuracy in the survey. There's a huge preponderance of people who indicated their industry of employment as "computer software" or "information technology and services".
While I don't doubt that these are common professions among Tildes users, I'd be a little skeptical (and potentially concerned) that our primary industrial output is code and information services. As an example, my profession is "information technology and services", but the industry which employs me is healthcare.
In future surveys, could we have profession and industry as two separate questions, just to tease this apart somewhat?
Nice, 50/50 Windows/POSIX users.
As an aside; a possible question for next time. "What is your preferred browser?" or some derivative thereof.
I had the "pleasure" of running the r/SpaceX annual community surveys where we'd get 2000+ results every year—along with the myriads of complaints and accusations that went along with it. I can absolutely relate to your anguish in every possible metric :).
The questions you include should be determined by the purpose of your survey and its theoretical foundation. If you're interested in, say, representation for the purposes of recruitment then it makes sense to inquire about demographic characteristics, political orientation, even OS use since that can represent certain subcultures. But I wouldn't expect browser use to be representative of any group. On the other hand, if you're surveying UX then browser use is a useful question. Of course, you may also include experimental questions based on a hunch or to test a hypothesis.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about not including every potentially useful question if you didn't already have a good reason to include that question.
It's definitely a looser relation, but Firefox can imply a more privacy or open source focus and default browsers like IE, Edge, Safari can imply not really caring (though I wouldn't be surprised if literally no one on this site uses any of those three regularly).
Then there are the "third party" browsers like Vivaldi and Brave that can maybe imply willingness to try something more experimental or out of the mainstream.
That's a reasonable hypothesis.
But 1. Do you have evidence to support those correlations? Or is it a hunch? Or is it a hypothesis that you want to test?
I'm not saying browser use may not be an interesting demographic question. I'm more commenting on the fact that with any survey you pick questions that serve the overall purpose of that survey, and when you design a survey you do not need to worry about trying to include every possible question that might or might not be relevant.
Only being able to pick one thing from the Education bit is slightly annoying. I have academic and and "vocational" qualifications, and consider them equal.
Three years at university to get a degree and three years at college/industry placements to get City & Guilds qualifications.
Both equally demanding and requiring comparable dedication and commitment levels.
So, the workaround for accurate study data might be, "years of post-secondary education" with significant bands, like 0 - 2 years, 2 - 4 years, 4 - 6 years, etc.
"Highest level of education achieved" is indeed a complicated question - I've got more years of post-secondary study in vocational certifications (both culinary and technical) than for the 18-month graduate degree, and a dual-Bachelor's that took about six years, not counting an M.D. program that I dropped out of after a year.
This was difficult to answer since I don't know what the question intends to ask.
If the question were "Have you been the subject of a substantial amount of internet abuse" I would have said yes. I've had some high profile accounts on some forums and sites before, and that's drawn a large number of haters at times. I would definitely say I've been subject to vast amounts of internet abuse at times.
I have a hard time saying I've been a victim though. I try to keep a fair distance between my online life and IRL. I'm from an age on the internet where no one gave out their real name. Everyone took on pseudonyms and avatars and no one took things too seriously.
So, I've dealt with lots of trolls in my time. I've dealt with people trying to doxx me, I've had people on IRC go on a campaign to try and DDOS my IP for days on end. In the end though, the only people online who know my IRL identity are people I've trusted with that info, and I've never actually felt in danger or victimized by any actions anyone has done online.
Sooo, no? Yes maybe, but I'm probably not the demographic you're looking for for your thing.
I think there could be an additional degree of nuance to the abuse question as well. I've been harassed on reddit quite a few times although the blocking and reporting functions were mostly enough to deal with it. But did it make me think twice before sticking my neck out to opine about similar issues? Absolutely.
I get that you're trying to ask whether harassment has reached a critical level where the user leaves a platform over it, for example, but I think some people who've received harassment might be hiding in the 'no' answer just because they feel their experience wasn't 'bad enough' to qualify for that.
Ok, got it. So just FYI to future historians or whatnot, I've been the recipient of volumes of abuse online. It's just I've never considered myself a victim per se, so I answered "No" to the question.
I've also copped a lot of abuse as a moderator of some particular subreddits on Reddit, so I chose to answer "yes" because, in the early days when first started happening, I felt victimised (these days, I'm less sensitive to it).
For the ethnicity question maybe there could be a mixed option of some sort included? I'm not sure how well you'd be able to integrate that but right now I'm counted as white AND black but I'm one person. Like I've been listed twice in the survey results if you get what I mean. Or is there a way to see how many people imputed two or more ethnicities?
I entered "none" for it because I don't identify with an ethnicity listed there (or any other). Ethnicity is a bit of a complex issue because what's considered an ethnicity and the definition of it seems to vary. Apparently in the US it's similar to race, but it's used (more correctly, IMO) in other places to mean more of a cultural/traditional identity. In that case, something like Middle Easterner is way too broad to be meaningful.
I think a more effective way to present this question is to ask whether someone considers themselves as part of a minority, both for country of residence and that of birth, and allowing multiple choice for what sort of minority that is: (ir)religious, ethnic, racial(1), political, sexual/of-gender. Combined with the selections of countries, this might yield more informative results, not tied to some local definition of ethinicity, race, right/left wing politics, etc.
(1) I don't think human racial distinctions have any rational basis whatsoever, but still useful to include given the concept has not died off among the general public yet, unfortunately.
I agree. "Jewish" is a particularly messy category globally - in some places it's a race (and that race is not "white"), in others it's an ethnicity, and in still others it's religiously affiliated only. For purposes of the survey, as an atheist American Jew, I selected both "white" and "Middle Eastern" (since that's what my phenotypic race/ethnicity is usually mistaken for).
That's funny, all of the jewish guys I've known were white like milk.
Personally I think race is one of the most degrading types of categorisation, so much so as to be deeply insulting, in and of itself, even when unrelated to any sort of discrimination, let aside big disasters like genocide or slavery. It's more obsolete than alchemy.
South Florida suntan, olive-toned. With a non-Anglo-Saxon given name that gets all kinds of ethnic labels, and a surname that Ellis Island bastardized into incomprehensibility. TSA regularly asks what country I'm from, but usually guesses Mexican or Middle Eastern.
I can't tell you how much I agree about race; Homo sapiens is the least genetically diverse mammal on the planet.
At the same time, I understand why it's a useful demographic question, since we've artificially created different social pressures on people by virtue of something as ephemeral and insignificant as skin pigmentation.
Awesome! That's good to know. I'll be looking for them then.
I think Tildes does not have enough diversity. Young, technology-focused, anglo-saxon, leftists. This is because all people are conming from anglo-saxon countries.
Tildes would benefit a lot to internationalize it's interface and allow discussions and groups in several languages. This would allow people with different opinions and cultures to meet and discuss each others. Sadly, Deimos said he doesn't care of i18n right now and he see it as a long-term goal. For myself, I think this should be a high priority to allow people to talk in their own language to allow different cultures to meet.
How can people of two different cultures 'meet' through text if they are speaking a different language? If the goal is to be multicultural, the most obvious choice of action is to have everyone speak one of the most common languages spoken around the globe. That language is currently English.
I suppose it would be nice if there was native language for the interface for those who are trying to understand the structure of the website, but it seems misguided to put that much effort into internationalization when all the content is going to be in English to begin with.
Delaying i18n and keeping the site English-only is a very pragmatic, reasonable decision given where Tildes is at right now.
Right now the trust & moderation system is in its infancy. We can label comments noise/off-topic/malice and so on, but taking any actions on those (removing comments, locking threads, warning/banning users, etc) is single-threaded around Deimos reading them.
If languages other than English were permitted, and had enough speakers to achieve a critical mass of discussion, there'd be the immediate problem that those discussions would be de facto exempt from any moderation or rules enforcement (short of ugly hacks like Deimos running comments through Google Translate).
Long-term, Tildes should absolutely be a global site with a global audience, including discussions in languages other than English. Even though I'm a native English speaker I'd love to be able to use Tildes as a Duolingo-like way to brush up on my Spanish or learn another language. But the site isn't mature enough for that yet.
In 41. another answer could be "Tilderian"
Activity - all time default > every other sort! ;)
Offtopic meta-discussion (so please label it as such) - I think one of the things these sorts of topics highlight is how we really need a way to sticky them (or some equivalent mechanism) in order to help promote them and keep them visible. These high effort to create, high quality topics are usually incredibly worthwhile/valuable IMO but also often don't get many comments so they disappear way way way too quickly off most peoples' front pages, where number & frequency of comments is currently king due to activity sort. I love activity sort but that's definitely a serious weakness of it that is going to need to be eventually addressed somehow.
Indeed. A mechanism to shine the spotlight on quality is needed, we've talked about plenty of them in the past so I'll avoid rehashing them here again. I think the way the exemplary comments have been playing out shows that the positive feedback effect is very, very real and we can harness it in the future.
We don't need to dive into that content management quagmire yet, though. Right now for this quiet little place, a simple static banner would do it. Contents would be the survey, the latest 'welcome to tildes' intro for new users, any 'open for feedback' threads from ~tildes.official. Seems like we're describing an 'ongoing event' class of posts.