I’ve worked in this industry. I know it pretty well, actually. Interesting to see outside perspectives. ETA: “Casting” is a normal, slightly informal restaurant interview nine times out of ten,...
I’ve worked in this industry. I know it pretty well, actually. Interesting to see outside perspectives.
ETA: “Casting” is a normal, slightly informal restaurant interview nine times out of ten, guys. They are looking for people with decent people skills, the ability to upsell, etc. — very, very regular stuff.
ETA to the ETA: Lord have mercy, lol. Let me explicitly announce — as an actual, real-life former “breasturant” waitstaff member, front of house — that it is a job very similar in all its foibles and glories as basically any other restaurant job.
To be honest, the threshold for sexual harassment was a lot shallower in these establishments than in normal eateries, in my experience. And none of us were being held against our will any more overtly than the average desperate American worker, and we were all in on the joke — because who would take this stuff seriously? It was all meant to be tongue-in-cheek, PG-13 at most, silly, stupid fun. Just kitschy, cosplaying fun.
And, yes, these were family restaurants, but in the same sense as some family-oriented media does not necessarily cater to little children and therefore requires some appropriately exercised discretion.
Also, for the record, I, too, found myself hella confused by a Twin Peaks restaurant when I first encountered one, lol.
(Also, also, the food was insanely good where I worked, as well as at the places where my friends worked. BOH did not come to play; every damned shift was excellence, all credit to them. This is an establishment by establishment sort of thing, though, so it is understandable that quality would be hit or miss.)
Glad to hear from somebody who was in it. I was always suspicious of a place that called itself a family restaurant but focused on boobs to sell itself, but I also heard exactly what you described...
Glad to hear from somebody who was in it. I was always suspicious of a place that called itself a family restaurant but focused on boobs to sell itself, but I also heard exactly what you described -- that it was a running joke.
Is it possible that once again, the same people who brought us explicit lyrics labels on CDs, the ESRB and every other 90s moral majority gatekeeping practice, were taking the Hooters joke too seriously?
As someone who thinks ETA meant "estimated time of arrival," thanks, /r/OutOfTheLoop. I'll save my "old man yelling at clouds" for another time. Also, thanks for the info, though it still doesn't...
As someone who thinks ETA meant "estimated time of arrival," thanks, /r/OutOfTheLoop. I'll save my "old man yelling at clouds" for another time.
Also, thanks for the info, though it still doesn't make me understand a place caught in the middle between strip clubs and regular restaurants. But I've certainly been following this thread out of curiosity.
On the one hand, nobody will ever "get" everything that happens in a society, and that's perfectly reasonable. More than just okay, even. I wouldn't want to imagine a world where nobody was ever...
On the one hand, nobody will ever "get" everything that happens in a society, and that's perfectly reasonable. More than just okay, even. I wouldn't want to imagine a world where nobody was ever "uhhhhh" about anything.
On the other hand, it's so obvious and plain to me that I can't help it from feeling almost disengenious when people have this take. Sexual attraction is such a universal human experience that I'd place it in the same tier as things like community and creativity. Why in the world would we not have a wide variety places to experience that? If anything, the fact that a place specifically catering to attraction immediately lumps it in to a single other type of establishment (a strip club) is the weird thing here, if you zoom out.
People like to socialize with people they find attractive, and socializing is often easier when there's some kind of activity happening around it. In America, the most accessible option for that is typically a restaurant. Vis a vis, sexy restaurant. To me, the only thing keeping these places from having more cultural acceptance is the overall blanket belief that sexuality is shameful, deviant, weird, dangerous, or whatever. We're so weird about sex. There are tons of human experience that can be negative, but sex/sexuality stands alone in how afraid of it we are.
I think the way we've demonized sexuality in most western cultures, but especially America, is part of a feedback loop of shame and exploitation that leads to more demonization.
I think the big point you’re missing is yes, people want a place to go to meet other (preferably attractive) people, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to hit on people at work. I could see that...
I think the big point you’re missing is yes, people want a place to go to meet other (preferably attractive) people, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to hit on people at work. I could see that argument working for why people go to clubs, but employees have to be nice and feign interest, you are basically holding them hostage at tip point.
Plus, I don’t want sexuality mixed with my food. To quote Scrubs I think “unless those things dispense A1 sauce, move along”
You don't have to be hitting on someone to enjoy their presence. And also, flirting is fun. The hard part is knowing whether the other person is okay with it, or weirded out. In a breastaraunt,...
You don't have to be hitting on someone to enjoy their presence. And also, flirting is fun. The hard part is knowing whether the other person is okay with it, or weirded out. In a breastaraunt, the roles are clear as day: you are an attractive person who is paid to be here, I am a patron looking to interact with attractive people and willing to pay to do so. It is a space I can freely flirt, or try my hand at being charming and charismatic or whatever, without risk of being harshly rejected or laughed at or whatever. Or sometimes, yeah, I want a place where it's socially acceptable to do what might be considered "gawking" at another place. Women are attractive, why wouldn't I want to look? As long as everyone is on board. And by specifically catering to that, the restaurant can self select for people that are more okay with being looked at.
Sometimes I just want to throw off the social shackles! It's nice when places exist that let me do that. And then go home to my wife.
I think this is exactly the point I'm missing. People who went to Hooters didn't go to stare at women's tits, they went to socialize with attractive women. Whenever I thought about going to...
People like to socialize with people they find attractive
I think this is exactly the point I'm missing. People who went to Hooters didn't go to stare at women's tits, they went to socialize with attractive women. Whenever I thought about going to Hooters (and honestly it's probably been 20 years since the thought has crossed my mind), my thought process was: people will think I want to go there just to look at women's tits > people will know that I'm a perv.
But I've never enjoyed the tip-compelled socialization with servers. I certainly like it when they're friendly, but mostly I want them to do their food-serving job well and leave me alone to talk to whomever I'm there with. So it makes sense that I never would've gotten this.
I mean some people for sure go just to look, but what's wrong with that? If everybody had a sign that said "you may look at me for X seconds and I'm totally fine with it", wouldn't that just...
I mean some people for sure go just to look, but what's wrong with that? If everybody had a sign that said "you may look at me for X seconds and I'm totally fine with it", wouldn't that just be.... So freeing? Not having to guess what amount of looking (which is fun for the looker, obviously, or they wouldn't bother to do it) is appropriate to the lookee (the only other party who's opinion matters in this interaction)?
Breastaurants are, among other things, a pitch of "if you like to look, come here - it's more normal and you won't be labeled a weirdo".
That doesn't mean they are pitching anything else, like that touching or gross comments or whatever else, are automatically okay. And that's part of what I mean about the demonization cycle, because I think people just assume if you're advertising anything sexual, you're basically saying "no rules!!!", which is ridiculous.
Yes, lol, exactly. I agree with everything you’ve written on this thread. And I’d just like to tag on a quick, complementary thought here for everyone, because I feel it is being overlooked: The...
Yes, lol, exactly. I agree with everything you’ve written on this thread.
And I’d just like to tag on a quick, complementary thought here for everyone, because I feel it is being overlooked:
The entire BOH staff were heterosexual, cis men.
I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again — I faced no sexual harassment from any of my coworkers. They understood the whole premise upon which the industry was based, they understood how to comport themselves accordingly, and they understood that, as you said, just advertising that it’s okay to look:
doesn't mean they are pitching anything else, like that touching or gross comments or whatever else, are automatically okay.
We were there to talk to the patrons, to be observed by people, and to be poorly flirted with, lol — all of that was included with the food and the drinks, and all of that was perfectly okay because we explicitly consented to it.
I'm polyamorous, allosexual and queer and while I can imagine plenty of scenarios where sex and food exist alongside each other in hedonistic harmony, I absolutely don't "get" wanting to go to a...
I'm polyamorous, allosexual and queer and while I can imagine plenty of scenarios where sex and food exist alongside each other in hedonistic harmony, I absolutely don't "get" wanting to go to a Hooters or Tilted Kilt. They're not sexy to me at all.
And I think women are hot as fuck.
So I suspect it has a lot to do with male gaze and "superficial" sexiness ala short shorts and low cut tops. If that isn't your vibe then those places won't be appealing.
For me, at least, it's less being opposed to sexuality in public spaces and more finding those places bland as hell in corporate enforced uniforms where the aesthetic always seems to be at least a decade out of date (is this because of who the owners are or who the clientele are) and having to watch/deal with other people being gross with and about the servers is another level of distasteful.
I’m going to have to jump in here with a quick note: Queer people of all stripes visited where I worked all of the time. We actually had a club of queer poly people who booked for an event every...
I’m going to have to jump in here with a quick note: Queer people of all stripes visited where I worked all of the time. We actually had a club of queer poly people who booked for an event every first Wednesday of the month, and they were an absolute riot.
Plenty of my regular customer base were gay men and women — and I’m not free-handedly labeling them; they were clear about who they were themselves — and they were some of my all-time favorite people to be around.
I’m not trying to take away from what you are saying here, only pigging-backing as I just realized that people might not know that queer people were also part of the picture.
Sure, I was making it clear that I'm not an anti-sex prude and that I'm theoretically attracted to the people in the room. I can see why that would vibe for other folks, just not in a "but I like...
Sure, I was making it clear that I'm not an anti-sex prude and that I'm theoretically attracted to the people in the room.
I can see why that would vibe for other folks, just not in a "but I like sex and I like food so of course I want sexiness around my food" way. More in a "this place will be chill about us and we've gotten to know the servers" way. Ours was a Denny's or a local coffee shop depending.
Choosing a breasteraunt for that would be no different, except that in the shitty kink groups I found myself in the dudes would also have been creepy to servers and attendees alike. (We didn't have a Hooters locally where I lived most of my life, so this was only an issue for the attendees.)
Yes, exactly. And I’ll just add that the same could also be said about a lot of other groups that regularly booked space where I worked, even when they were, presumably, groups of heterosexual...
Yes, exactly. And I’ll just add that the same could also be said about a lot of other groups that regularly booked space where I worked, even when they were, presumably, groups of heterosexual men. They just thought it was a chill environment — and they were right, it was.
In fact, most interactions I had in a workday were just… benign. Very normal, run-of-the-mill stuff.
ETA: Oh, I replied before I saw your edit with the last bit.
Your comment about male gaze lit a lightbulb for me why these places have a negative appeal to me. It's like I'm a rabbit going to a lettuce and carrots themed pub: we're all just a couple of...
Your comment about male gaze lit a lightbulb for me why these places have a negative appeal to me. It's like I'm a rabbit going to a lettuce and carrots themed pub: we're all just a couple of rabbits enjoying a good time here, why so serious? Because I grew up in the generation where sexual assault victims are routinely asked what they were wearing and what their jobs entail.
A particularly awful Canadian judge only just resigned in 2017 (SA TW)
A Canadian judge who asked an alleged rape victim why she could not “just keep your knees together” has resigned. Independent.co.uk
In more than 1,000 pages in transcripts from the trial, released last year, Mr Camp asks: “Why didn’t you just sink your bottom down into the basin so he couldn’t penetrate you?”
After the alleged victim answered that she “was drunk” he asked: “And when your ankles were held together by your jeans, your skinny jeans, why couldn’t you just keep your knees together?”
Mr Camp also told her “pain and sex sometimes go together”.
So..... I'm happy to hear it's super fun for other women working in these types of places and that they feel super safe. It's a good thing that my hang ups are my own, but I probably won't find this fun for a long time.
Oh, do we feel super safe? Or do we simply not stop doing what we want just because society might view us through a multitude of certain critical and unsympathetic lenses? It’s no less safe than...
Oh, do we feel super safe? Or do we simply not stop doing what we want just because society might view us through a multitude of certain critical and unsympathetic lenses?
It’s no less safe than any other job I’ve had, and I’ve had a wide variety of them. I earlier stated that the threshold for sexual harassment was lower, and that’s because we were aware of how little leeway we had within that context. I had a blast working these establishments, and one of the main reasons was the lack of sexual harassment from coworkers combined with the fact that everyone was on the same page about nipping bad behavior from patrons in the bud before it could flourish and affect us all.
I honestly have not found any other workplace where I was not socially or formally punished for not having given the benefit of the doubt to someone skating the line with what people like to excuse as ‘friendly, oblivious, or lonely’ behavior since working in that industry. And this isn’t me claiming that that’s how it was for everyone, only that I can see no good reason to disregard my own lived experiences.
Also, I’m me wherever I go — which means nothing to anyone reading this because you can’t see me, but it’s also not irrelevant to this conversation. And yes — the male gaze, “legitimate rape”, wearing the wrong clothes, being the wrong type of person… yea, I’m aware of all of that; I’m affected by it, too. Everyone is.
But, what can I say — I’d already decided long before I’d ever stepped foot through that first pair of breasturant doors and breasted boobily inside to inquire about possibly applying for a job that I would simply engage with my life as I saw fit.
That's a really awesome thing about the restaurant that I wish all of our work places had, that they took a serious attitude against the "let's give them the benefit of the doubt" line. And you're...
That's a really awesome thing about the restaurant that I wish all of our work places had, that they took a serious attitude against the "let's give them the benefit of the doubt" line. And you're very right about you being in your body no matter where you work or where you go. The restaurant doesn't somehow mysteriously create male gaze that doesn't exist outside of its walls.
I don't think chocobean was being sarcastic there and I feel like you're being kind of aggressive comparing "male gaze" to "legitimate rape" or "what was she wearing" as if those are somehow the...
I don't think chocobean was being sarcastic there and I feel like you're being kind of aggressive comparing "male gaze" to "legitimate rape" or "what was she wearing" as if those are somehow the same sort of thing in response to chocobean saying this was their own hangup, not the restaurant itself.
I'm really genuinely glad your experience was good and you had a positive environment. That's the ideal and I'm really happy for you. But it feels like all your frustrations in this conversation came out at Choco, who was specifically saying that those mental comparisons were internal hangups based on their past not judgements of people working there.
I’m not comparing those things, I’m just acknowledging that they are all part and parcel of rape culture in response to chocobean’s inclusion of that bit about the judge being horrible to that...
I feel like you're being kind of aggressive comparing "male gaze" to "legitimate rape" or "what was she wearing" as if those are somehow the same sort of thing in response to chocobean saying this was their own hangup, not the restaurant itself.
I’m not comparing those things, I’m just acknowledging that they are all part and parcel of rape culture in response to chocobean’s inclusion of that bit about the judge being horrible to that rape victim.
I’m also not being aggressive — I just speak this way. I speak with humor, lol, but maybe you can’t hear it. That’s alright; we read with the voice we give people in our heads, and you don’t seem to be giving me much benefit of the doubt.
I enjoyed reading what chocobean had to say, btw. It’s a facet of their world shared earnestly, and that’s why I bothered to respond to them. I shared a bit about my viewpoint — that’s it.
I have not been assuming ill of you, and I don't think you've needed the benefit of the doubt at any point in this nor am I assuming ill will. I thought that you misread Choco as being sarcastic...
I have not been assuming ill of you, and I don't think you've needed the benefit of the doubt at any point in this nor am I assuming ill will. I thought that you misread Choco as being sarcastic with the use of "super" since you italicized it in response and followed it up with a "or so we simply" which is a contradicting phrase.
Glad to hear I was mistaken and my apologies for the misunderstanding on my part.
No, I’ve been on this site long enough to recognize certain handles, chocobean’s being one of them. I didn’t read any sarcasm in their remarks. They always engage in good faith, and I see no...
No, I’ve been on this site long enough to recognize certain handles, chocobean’s being one of them. I didn’t read any sarcasm in their remarks. They always engage in good faith, and I see no reason to doubt them now.
And anyway, who cares even if they had? Sarcasm is no great sin in my book.
Glad to hear you assume no ill will of me, definitelynotafae; I’d just feel terrible if you had.
I guess my point here is, even if they're not catering to your preference, the concept of a place that specifically markets the concept of "hey wanna look at and chat with people you find...
I guess my point here is, even if they're not catering to your preference, the concept of a place that specifically markets the concept of "hey wanna look at and chat with people you find attractive while you X? Do it here!" is a very reasonable pitch.
Sure lots of restaurants aren't to my preference, and I was trying to be quite clear that I was talking about my preference. But I was responding mostly to the rest of your comment about it being...
Sure lots of restaurants aren't to my preference, and I was trying to be quite clear that I was talking about my preference. But I was responding mostly to the rest of your comment about it being disingenuous and obvious or about shame in part because the Hooters aesthetic isn't one I find particularly attractive (I'm not saying the people aren't), and in part because even the concept of "you get to socialize with hot people who are being paid to socialize with you" isn't something I'm that interested in. I don't "get" it in that sense. I don't feel "shackled" by society in that way as you described in another comment.
I get that other people obviously do enjoy it. But similarly I don't "get" why people care about the gender or genitals of their sexual partners. I know other people do, and I can intellectualize it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.
Yep, 100%! I guess I was trying to clarify what kind of "get" you meant, and I totally understand not "getting" it from a "it doesn't personally appeal to me, but I can comprehend how and why it...
Yep, 100%! I guess I was trying to clarify what kind of "get" you meant, and I totally understand not "getting" it from a "it doesn't personally appeal to me, but I can comprehend how and why it exists, and it doesn't necessarily seem like something that ought not to exist". But there's a certain type of glibness that surrounds conversations like this. Things people say they "don't get", but are actually saying, "this is weird and I don't like it but I don't want to antagonize so I'll just say I don't get it and maybe have some thinly veiled superiority over people who do enjoy it".
To be clear, I'm not saying that was you! But it's common enough that that's what I meant when I said it's hard for me not to feel like its disengenuous. I didn't mean to imply anyone was actually being disengenuous, just that because of those kinds of conversations, I have to remind myself that not everyone is coming at it like that.
I didn't think you meant it personally, just that I wanted to provide the perspective of someone who's like "why would you want to do that?" because it's so unappealing to me, without the...
I didn't think you meant it personally, just that I wanted to provide the perspective of someone who's like "why would you want to do that?" because it's so unappealing to me, without the sex-negativity angle.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/kziuvc/whats_the_deal_with_the_new_use_of_eta/ I had to look it up too, @clem, since I'm also old and had never seen ETA used as anything other than...
I've been seeing this mostly on reddit and I'm frankly really confused by it. For me, ETA has meant "estimated time of arrival" since forever, but people keep using it in a context where that meaning would make no sense.
stressisoverrated 502 points 4 years ago
Answer: Edited to add
I had to look it up too, @clem, since I'm also old and had never seen ETA used as anything other than Estimated Time of Arrival either. Darn kids these days stealing already claimed acronyms! ;)
Sorry for making you all click--I linked to the explanation and thought that was fine, but I should've copied that text, too! I shouldn't get started on abbreviations, but I'll just say that the...
Sorry for making you all click--I linked to the explanation and thought that was fine, but I should've copied that text, too!
I shouldn't get started on abbreviations, but I'll just say that the way they're used today drives me nuts. There's a whole glossary of lingo you have to learn before you can get interested in a topic, and it makes me grouchy. It's not that hard to spell most things out. Changing an already established abbreviation... I just can't go there.
Back in my day, abbreviations were acronyms, but I’ve been seeing a lot of “this” > “ts” recently in memes from the youths. I’m not sure how to feel about it but I guess there’s a little bit of...
Back in my day, abbreviations were acronyms, but I’ve been seeing a lot of “this” > “ts” recently in memes from the youths.
I’m not sure how to feel about it but I guess there’s a little bit of pride in somewhat keeping informed of the lingo as it changes and not being completely out of the loop
The part of me that hates typing on my phone is sympathetic, but the part of me that mostly types on my computer as a result is in charge of my opinion about it. We hates it, hates it forever!
The part of me that hates typing on my phone is sympathetic, but the part of me that mostly types on my computer as a result is in charge of my opinion about it. We hates it, hates it forever!
Interesting retrospective, thanks for posting it. I have two stories about Hooters. One was during a family outing in the mid-‘90s when my dad decided unilaterally that this was where we’d be...
Interesting retrospective, thanks for posting it.
I have two stories about Hooters. One was during a family outing in the mid-‘90s when my dad decided unilaterally that this was where we’d be having lunch. I was probably about ten and my siblings were younger so I don’t remember much, but my mom was not happy about the choice and spent the meal glowering at him. And I remember our server picking up on that and trying to convince her that Hooters was a “family restaurant.” Dad was in the doghouse for a while after that.
My other story was around 2006 when I had my first corporate office job. It was a small tech company with a largely male workforce. They would infrequently dip out for lunch trips to Hooters. I came along once and felt pretty uncomfortable about it (probably replaying that other memory in my head the whole time). Two women from the office joined us. TBH I was probably projecting my own discomfort onto them but I thought they seemed a bit put off and I caught them side-eyeing the waitstaff a couple times.
Neither story is particularly eventful but those are the only times I’ve set foot in Hooters; both experiences linger in my brain for the way their objectification of women unsettled me. It was in the years after that, that #meToo happened and I got into the feminist discourse, which gave me the vocabulary and context to make better sense of those memories.
AFAIK Hooters used a loophole to wriggle out of gender discrimination laws by hiring the women as “models” instead of “servers.” I believe their job interviews were considered auditions. And (this is blatant, irresponsible speculation) I would not be surprised in the slightest if that process involved a casting couch in at least one of those 400+ locations they had around the world.
Private equity seems to destroy every business it touches, but I’m not shedding any tears for Hooters.
One thing I’m watching with morbid curiosity is the cultural pendulum swinging rightward again in the MAGA (and broader global populist) era. Conservatives backlashed hard against #meToo and anything that smacks of it is now considered woke or censorious. These things trickle into public spaces at different speeds but I do wonder if we’re going to see a resurgence of breastaurants popping up again in the next decade.
At least at Hooters you know what you're getting. I remember back circa 2012 I took a girlfriend to Twin Peaks because we were both big David Lynch fans. It was not what we expected.
At least at Hooters you know what you're getting. I remember back circa 2012 I took a girlfriend to Twin Peaks because we were both big David Lynch fans. It was not what we expected.
I had a similar experience when I went to a Tilted Kilt because my wife wanted shepherd's pie and we just searched for Irish food not knowing what it was. Super uncomfortable experience, and just...
I had a similar experience when I went to a Tilted Kilt because my wife wanted shepherd's pie and we just searched for Irish food not knowing what it was. Super uncomfortable experience, and just checked their site and they also do the "casting" thing.
On a work trip some coworkers and I went to a Twin Peaks, also uninformed, and we relentlessly mocked the one coworker who suggested it. Next night, we jokingly stated he can't pick where we go...
On a work trip some coworkers and I went to a Twin Peaks, also uninformed, and we relentlessly mocked the one coworker who suggested it.
Next night, we jokingly stated he can't pick where we go anymore and we all agreed on a place called Bombshells. Turns out, same damn thing. Two nights in a row.
Funny opposite story - my wife and I were looking for gluten-free restaurants when we were in Vancouver and found a place called The Black Lodge. We laughed at the name, then looked at the menu...
Funny opposite story - my wife and I were looking for gluten-free restaurants when we were in Vancouver and found a place called The Black Lodge. We laughed at the name, then looked at the menu and realized that, yes, it was actually a Twin Peaks-themed restaurant. Unfortunately I think we caught them right before COVID shut them down, and I think the newer owners at the time bought the place without having watched the show, lol. But they did keep some stuff like a little shrine to Laura Palmer in the corner, and their cherry pie was a miracle.
I had a pretty similar life experience. The first and only time I was in a Hooters, I was maybe 12 or 13, so like 1996ish. I felt super uncomfortable about it and the food was terrible to boot....
I had a pretty similar life experience. The first and only time I was in a Hooters, I was maybe 12 or 13, so like 1996ish. I felt super uncomfortable about it and the food was terrible to boot.
Between both, the food being awful is what I remember the most. I had Chicken Wings and they were just...I dunno, they did not taste good at all. Hooters to me always seemed like low brow crap and I'm a fan of low brow, but it just... It was always a no thanks from me.
The only time I've been to Hooters was senior year of high school with my dad. It was 2005 and it was like a night or two before Prom. My dad wanted to have a man-to-man talk and tell me that if...
The only time I've been to Hooters was senior year of high school with my dad. It was 2005 and it was like a night or two before Prom. My dad wanted to have a man-to-man talk and tell me that if me and my date -- my then GF -- were going to have "some fun" afterwards, to be sure to play it safe. Which we already had been doing. Though tbf, he wouldn't have known that.
Why he chose Hooters to have that conversation, I have no clue. Like why couldn't we have just gone to a normal suburban restaurant like Applebees or Chili's? And yeah the food was pretty mediocre. Avoided Hooters and other restaurants like it since. Because why go to a restaurant if the main appeal isn't the food?
While I share your feeling with the uncomfortable vibe of Hooters, I was surprised at how decent the food was. I was also from the area of FL where it started, so maybe the original few locations...
While I share your feeling with the uncomfortable vibe of Hooters, I was surprised at how decent the food was. I was also from the area of FL where it started, so maybe the original few locations had better quality.
I went to a Hooters with my (male, obviously) friends during one of our trips to the US, I was around 20. Somewhere in California I think. Apparently this was before it was sold so it would have...
I went to a Hooters with my (male, obviously) friends during one of our trips to the US, I was around 20. Somewhere in California I think. Apparently this was before it was sold so it would have been during the height of their profitability.
I remember being very uncomfortable during my whole time there (also, the food was not bad? not back then and there at least). But to be honest, what would have made me the most uncomfortable would have been the forced interaction with the wait staff. They picked up that my traveling companions wanted to talk, take pictures, etc. so there was a lot of uncomfortable closeness with strangers.
This correlates with a general discomfort I've had with the attitude of wait staff in multiple US restaurants. Everyone was much more aggressively friendly, cheerful, upbeat than in any portuguese restaurant. That's not to say restaurants in Portugal have bad service - I'd say the service averages to "pretty good" outside fast food - or that we don't have friendly wait staff/owners in some restaurants, but that's up to them. Knowing what I now know about wait staff wages and tipping culture in the US, I wonder if they acted that unnatural because they felt as if they had a gun to the back of their heads. Combine that with the theme of Hooters restaurants and it suddenly feels extra gross. Like, they weren't obliging my companions and getting so close to us out of a proactive desire to do a good job, but out of fear of taking a loss. Yuck.
Remove all that shit from the equation, and I'm honestly not opposed to a themed dining establishment hiring only physically beautiful people - as is common in some cultures around the globe. It would be dishonest of me to deny that I enjoy looking at beauty - beautiful buildings, beautiful scenery, beautiful animals, so why not beautiful people? Pay good wages proportionate to the increased expectations - they are wait staff and models at the same time. Have on-site security. Have everyone keep their distance and keep it strictly professional. I see no reason why they can't hire men. It would get rid of the gender discrimination complaints and broaden the appeal to everyone, giving the restaurant a real shot at being family friendly, as long as the spouses are both on the same page before making the decision to go. There's no reason why attractive wait staff can't be good with children, either.
Kind of, but it's mostly a cultural difference. Even when the customer service worker isn't tipped, they tend to be nicer in America. Despite the stereotypes, Americans are statistically friendly...
Knowing what I now know about wait staff wages and tipping culture in the US, I wonder if they acted that unnatural because they felt as if they had a gun to the back of their heads.
Kind of, but it's mostly a cultural difference. Even when the customer service worker isn't tipped, they tend to be nicer in America. Despite the stereotypes, Americans are statistically friendly and cheery.
Servers are expected to act friendly. It varies by region. The Southern US is famous for southern hospitality, and it's not uncommon to hear pet names like "sugar" or "honey" used by wait staff. The Northeast (NYC) has more curt service, in my experience. The West coast and Midwest are somewhere in-between.
European service can feel stiff or inattentive by comparison.
Yeah, there's a cultural difference at play here for sure. I strongly dislike this kind of cheeriness. It feels fake and definitely not nice. Friendly isn't kind: it's a certain tone and...
Yeah, there's a cultural difference at play here for sure. I strongly dislike this kind of cheeriness. It feels fake and definitely not nice. Friendly isn't kind: it's a certain tone and appearance, but tells you nothing beyond how someone arranged their facial features. Nothing could change on their faces and they could tell you to pound sand or eat your own hands. It's actually kind of terrifying. I feel mostly uncomfortable in restaurants where they have these big-gummed smiles and overly attentive personal connection interactions.
I prefer silent, cold neutral efficiency if we're strangers. I'd rather take a scowl or a "tsk" than having to endure a minute of "how you folks doin where ya from".
I agree with the other responses you got to your post. On this particular subject, the answer is yes, some of them do feel that way and are just speed running making money from tips as best they...
I wonder if they acted that unnatural because they felt as if they had a gun to the back of their heads.
I agree with the other responses you got to your post. On this particular subject, the answer is yes, some of them do feel that way and are just speed running making money from tips as best they feel they can. It may not be just for general economic/financial reasons, but they may have a specific need for a good amount of money fairly quickly and they feel that working at one of those establishments is preferable to working at a strip club or getting a high interest rate loan. For every story of an American getting into the porn industry to pay for college, there are a thousand Americans who worked at that kind of establishment as waitstaff to do the same thing, or pay for their sibling's braces, or make a downpayment on a car. There are less honorable reasons, too, I'm sure, but either way a lot of them are gritting their teeth and doing what they can to make the tips.
I’m drawing a blank; what “less honorable reasons” could there be for simply… being waitstaff at a mid-tier, local restaurant? Also, you seem to have missed one very specific, glaringly obvious...
There are less honorable reasons, too, I'm sure
I’m drawing a blank; what “less honorable reasons” could there be for simply… being waitstaff at a mid-tier, local restaurant?
Also, you seem to have missed one very specific, glaringly obvious reason a person might opt to work at one of these places: It’s fun.
And being surrounded every day by beautiful people isn’t exactly a hardship.
Drug use as an issue is pretty par for the course, but not in any way specific to themed sports bar type restaurants; it’s just one of those broadly acknowledged elements of working in the...
Drug use as an issue is pretty par for the course, but not in any way specific to themed sports bar type restaurants; it’s just one of those broadly acknowledged elements of working in the restaurant business overall.
In short, a series of private equity acquisitions, a leveraged buyout (why have they not been outlawed already?), terrible economic conditions and an overall decline in food quality led to them...
In short, a series of private equity acquisitions, a leveraged buyout (why have they not been outlawed already?), terrible economic conditions and an overall decline in food quality led to them filing for bankruptcy. A lot of people blame #MeToo for their decline but I don't think the movement and all the scandals they faced were significant enough to truly harm the brand, unlike American Apparel who were effectively torpedoed out of existence under similar circumstances.
The video mentions a similar chain called Twin Peaks who also have scantily-clad women as their main draw but haven't been in freefall. You could also say the same for Coyote Ugly who have effectively adopted the same concept but for bars.
I've only been to Hooters once for a birthday meal, and this was when they expanded their UK business. The food sucked, and to nobody's surprise, the location I went to shut within less than 2 years. Feminists celebrated the restaurant's closure, yet I see the Coyote Ugly Saloon that opened here months ago getting no flak despite them effectively running on the same concept (bar/restaurant staffed by predominantly women in skimpy shorts), and I genuinely think that if Twin Peaks expanded outside of the US and opened a restaurant here, it would go down really well.
In 1983, six businessmen in Clearwater, Florida, who had no prior experience in the restaurant industry, teamed up to create a place where they couldn’t be kicked out. On April Fools’ Day that year, they opened it as a joke, never imagining it would turn into a huge success, let alone a global phenomenon.
Opening "a place where they couldn't be kicked out" sounds like a red flag motivator to for anybody creating a restaurant brand. It's weird that it's only the UK arm of the business mentioning this in their branding.
I only went to Hooters once as a kid. I was maybe 8 or 9 years old, my uncle chose it for a extended family dinner. I remember being in awe at how the waitresses were dressed, it wasn't the...
I only went to Hooters once as a kid. I was maybe 8 or 9 years old, my uncle chose it for a extended family dinner. I remember being in awe at how the waitresses were dressed, it wasn't the classic white shirt and short it was like a black one piece. It wasn't an awakening for me or anything, but I do recall being like "it feels like I shouldn't be here." I had a similar thought when that same uncle took his children on a vacation in Vegas. It's like, these are places for adults why are you taking kids.
I always thought the food was gross, and I don't really understand the concept of wanting to be turned on as you're eating. But it does occupy a space in my mind as to how the 00s felt like.
Neither do I, and I’m struggling with how not to be sarcastic while pointing out the obvious here, so I’ll limit myself to simply saying that your uncle, along with many of the fathers described...
I don't really understand the concept of wanting to be turned on as you're eating
Neither do I, and I’m struggling with how not to be sarcastic while pointing out the obvious here, so I’ll limit myself to simply saying that your uncle, along with many of the fathers described in other comments, just sounds like a certain type of guy. Plenty of people can and do go out to eat with their kids at these sorts of themed restaurants without making everyone slightly suspicious of or uncomfortable with their motives.
A waitstaff comprised of pretty ladies all decked out in outfits no more offensive or revealing than those worn by cheerleaders isn’t there to ‘turn anyone on’. These aren’t strip clubs or topless bars — though I have no doubt there are those who do not recognize or understand the difference — these are sports restaurants/bars.
I worked at these types of establishments, and just so happened to be one of the people who would step in to keep an eye on things when the vibes were off — and, let me assure you, anyone believing that the waitstaff were there to get them all hot and bothered was a pretty clear-cut ‘vibes are off’ situation. None of us were there to cater to that sort of thing*; we were there to sell food and drinks, albeit with a gimmick.
*Playful banter was an aspect of the job — hence the whole “casting” thing. FOH were hired as ‘entertainers’, and were expected to be fun to be around, to literally be entertaining, to create a carefree, upbeat environment, as part of the job. Most of the time this simply meant not being too curt with service or a Debbie downer while on the floor. We were required to spend at least a portion of our time chatting with customers about whatever, just being engaging, as opposed to other restaurants where the FOH staff light-heartedly joking around was not an expected part of the experience.
But it does occupy a space in my mind as to how the 00s felt like.
I think "turned on" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Personally I think it makes a ton of sense to be turned on in a place like that, but that doesn't automatically...
I think "turned on" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Personally I think it makes a ton of sense to be turned on in a place like that, but that doesn't automatically mean the objective is to take a server home and have sex with her.
A cute, sexy, fun woman being playful and a bit flirty is definitely a turn on. But that doesn't mean I should be surprised when that's all it is. That's the movie I sat down at. I am happy to engage my suspension of disbelief and let my brain feel the endorphin rush of being chatted with by such a cutie who is definitely into me... And then pay my check and go home and feel a little taller for a day or two.
I’ve genuinely never experienced that, so I’ll just take your word for it. And, honestly, as long as all of that is all happening solely internally and one can remain respectful and it in no way...
I’ve genuinely never experienced that, so I’ll just take your word for it.
And, honestly, as long as all of that is all happening solely internally and one can remain respectful and it in no way affects how one treats the subject of their attention, then it is what it is.
But, for the record, when I say ‘turn on’ I was referring to a specific class of behavior that was very outwardly disrespectful. There is a subset of person who places all responsibility for their own desires on the subjects of those desires and acts out in various ways to bend said subject’s will towards their own self-appointed goals. They usually fall into believing that if they see something and they like it, then it must be there for their taking.
These types must be dealt with immediately, because, if even one is allowed to linger, that mindset will spread, and it will spread fast.
Ah, see, and that's very strange to me. From my perspective, someone being disrespectful because of the way they feel is an entirely different thing than them simply feeling that way. The food...
when I say ‘turn on’ I was referring to a specific class of behavior that was very outwardly disrespectful.
Ah, see, and that's very strange to me. From my perspective, someone being disrespectful because of the way they feel is an entirely different thing than them simply feeling that way.
The food court at a mall might reasonably make a person feel hungry, due to the sights and sounds. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable or unexpected. But we would still be upset with that person if they jumped over the counter and started shoveling Orange Chicken into their face. It feels the same to me. A breastaurant is a reasonable place that someone might feel turned on, but that's an entirely different matter from being an asshat. Honestly, if they're an asshat there, they're probably as asshat everywhere, and it probably doesn't have a lot to do with whether or not they're "turned on". But I guess the kinds of things a "turned on" asshat might do are significantly worse than the kinds of things a hungry asshat might do, so...
But I dunno, maybe my experience is very different from the average person's. It must be, based on how most people talk about attraction and sexuality.
I had a summer job after my freshman year of college working for an electrical testing company. Lots of travel, working in substations and other remote locations. I was paired up with one guy for...
I had a summer job after my freshman year of college working for an electrical testing company. Lots of travel, working in substations and other remote locations.
I was paired up with one guy for a trip to Dallas (2 hr drive). At 10:30 AM, he suddenly exits and says, "we're stopping here for lunch." Here turned out to be Hooters, and he spent the meal telling me proudly that he had been to every Hooters in Texas, loudly commenting who the "best" (biggest breasted) waitresses were at this particular location, and telling me how dissatisfied he was with his wife's breasts. I was 19 and from a fairly sheltered conservative religious background, so it was a lot. I spent the meal maintaining eye contact with the servers and trying not to bolt. I couldn't have told you a single thing about the food, except that there was some.
Fortunately, I was paired up with a much nicer fellow after that and worked with him most of the summer. We did not ever eat at a Hooters, and I don't think I've been in one since.
I honestly think he just had no filter. This job was basically construction, and it was in East Texas back in 2000, so the culture on the job was very much macho/bro/toxic masculinity. I don't...
I honestly think he just had no filter. This job was basically construction, and it was in East Texas back in 2000, so the culture on the job was very much macho/bro/toxic masculinity. I don't think he'd have had any reason to think I might be uncomfortable nor the emotional intelligence to pick up on it.
So I went to a Hooters once, when I lived in Florida. Understand that I had some serious culture shock encountering South Florida feminine esthetics. I'd never seen so many women with obvious...
So I went to a Hooters once, when I lived in Florida. Understand that I had some serious culture shock encountering South Florida feminine esthetics. I'd never seen so many women with obvious breast enhancements, including petite girls barely out of their teens with weirdly spherical DD+ boobs totally out of proportion to their bodies, or 70+ year olds sporting completely horizontal shelf racks. People have the right to modify their bodies as they choose, but as a matter of taste, I often found their choices (especially when combined with extensive plastic surgery, Botox, and fillers) well into the uncanny valley.
I was the only female-appearing person on a big IT team, and pretty much got along as one of the guys. My response when they wanted to go to Hooters (ostensibly because they were craving Hooters' hot wings) was a shrug and a "nothing I haven't seen before, heh heh heh".
Mostly, I felt sad for the waitresses. They weren't the people with thousands of dollars to spare for all the popular enhancements. They looked like ordinary women making the best of their situations, trying to give the customers the experience that they went to Hooters for. Bouncing, jiggling, and smiling, they served us bad food in an ugly chain restaurant with the smell of overused fryer grease. We weren't easy to serve, either - there were only two waitresses on duty for the whole place, we showed up in a group of 12, the kitchen held up the orders for 30 minutes, and we were all antsy to get back to work for various scheduled meetings and events.
Everyone ante'ed up big tips out of pity for the overworked staff, but there was general agreement we'd never go back.
It was a lunchtime visit. The Hooters was situated in an area with many large corporate offices. Some members of our team were regular customers. They didn't think we would need to call ahead....
It was a lunchtime visit. The Hooters was situated in an area with many large corporate offices. Some members of our team were regular customers. They didn't think we would need to call ahead. There were other tables of 8+ people, and we didn't have to wait for a large table to open up or smaller tables to be joined. The place was just grossly understaffed, and I suspect that was the private equity influence.
I’ve worked in this industry. I know it pretty well, actually. Interesting to see outside perspectives.
ETA: “Casting” is a normal, slightly informal restaurant interview nine times out of ten, guys. They are looking for people with decent people skills, the ability to upsell, etc. — very, very regular stuff.
ETA to the ETA: Lord have mercy, lol. Let me explicitly announce — as an actual, real-life former “breasturant” waitstaff member, front of house — that it is a job very similar in all its foibles and glories as basically any other restaurant job.
To be honest, the threshold for sexual harassment was a lot shallower in these establishments than in normal eateries, in my experience. And none of us were being held against our will any more overtly than the average desperate American worker, and we were all in on the joke — because who would take this stuff seriously? It was all meant to be tongue-in-cheek, PG-13 at most, silly, stupid fun. Just kitschy, cosplaying fun.
And, yes, these were family restaurants, but in the same sense as some family-oriented media does not necessarily cater to little children and therefore requires some appropriately exercised discretion.
Also, for the record, I, too, found myself hella confused by a Twin Peaks restaurant when I first encountered one, lol.
(Also, also, the food was insanely good where I worked, as well as at the places where my friends worked. BOH did not come to play; every damned shift was excellence, all credit to them. This is an establishment by establishment sort of thing, though, so it is understandable that quality would be hit or miss.)
Glad to hear from somebody who was in it. I was always suspicious of a place that called itself a family restaurant but focused on boobs to sell itself, but I also heard exactly what you described -- that it was a running joke.
Is it possible that once again, the same people who brought us explicit lyrics labels on CDs, the ESRB and every other 90s moral majority gatekeeping practice, were taking the Hooters joke too seriously?
As someone who thinks ETA meant "estimated time of arrival," thanks, /r/OutOfTheLoop. I'll save my "old man yelling at clouds" for another time.
Also, thanks for the info, though it still doesn't make me understand a place caught in the middle between strip clubs and regular restaurants. But I've certainly been following this thread out of curiosity.
On the one hand, nobody will ever "get" everything that happens in a society, and that's perfectly reasonable. More than just okay, even. I wouldn't want to imagine a world where nobody was ever "uhhhhh" about anything.
On the other hand, it's so obvious and plain to me that I can't help it from feeling almost disengenious when people have this take. Sexual attraction is such a universal human experience that I'd place it in the same tier as things like community and creativity. Why in the world would we not have a wide variety places to experience that? If anything, the fact that a place specifically catering to attraction immediately lumps it in to a single other type of establishment (a strip club) is the weird thing here, if you zoom out.
People like to socialize with people they find attractive, and socializing is often easier when there's some kind of activity happening around it. In America, the most accessible option for that is typically a restaurant. Vis a vis, sexy restaurant. To me, the only thing keeping these places from having more cultural acceptance is the overall blanket belief that sexuality is shameful, deviant, weird, dangerous, or whatever. We're so weird about sex. There are tons of human experience that can be negative, but sex/sexuality stands alone in how afraid of it we are.
I think the way we've demonized sexuality in most western cultures, but especially America, is part of a feedback loop of shame and exploitation that leads to more demonization.
I think the big point you’re missing is yes, people want a place to go to meet other (preferably attractive) people, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to hit on people at work. I could see that argument working for why people go to clubs, but employees have to be nice and feign interest, you are basically holding them hostage at tip point.
Plus, I don’t want sexuality mixed with my food. To quote Scrubs I think “unless those things dispense A1 sauce, move along”
You don't have to be hitting on someone to enjoy their presence. And also, flirting is fun. The hard part is knowing whether the other person is okay with it, or weirded out. In a breastaraunt, the roles are clear as day: you are an attractive person who is paid to be here, I am a patron looking to interact with attractive people and willing to pay to do so. It is a space I can freely flirt, or try my hand at being charming and charismatic or whatever, without risk of being harshly rejected or laughed at or whatever. Or sometimes, yeah, I want a place where it's socially acceptable to do what might be considered "gawking" at another place. Women are attractive, why wouldn't I want to look? As long as everyone is on board. And by specifically catering to that, the restaurant can self select for people that are more okay with being looked at.
Sometimes I just want to throw off the social shackles! It's nice when places exist that let me do that. And then go home to my wife.
I think this is exactly the point I'm missing. People who went to Hooters didn't go to stare at women's tits, they went to socialize with attractive women. Whenever I thought about going to Hooters (and honestly it's probably been 20 years since the thought has crossed my mind), my thought process was: people will think I want to go there just to look at women's tits > people will know that I'm a perv.
But I've never enjoyed the tip-compelled socialization with servers. I certainly like it when they're friendly, but mostly I want them to do their food-serving job well and leave me alone to talk to whomever I'm there with. So it makes sense that I never would've gotten this.
I mean some people for sure go just to look, but what's wrong with that? If everybody had a sign that said "you may look at me for X seconds and I'm totally fine with it", wouldn't that just be.... So freeing? Not having to guess what amount of looking (which is fun for the looker, obviously, or they wouldn't bother to do it) is appropriate to the lookee (the only other party who's opinion matters in this interaction)?
Breastaurants are, among other things, a pitch of "if you like to look, come here - it's more normal and you won't be labeled a weirdo".
That doesn't mean they are pitching anything else, like that touching or gross comments or whatever else, are automatically okay. And that's part of what I mean about the demonization cycle, because I think people just assume if you're advertising anything sexual, you're basically saying "no rules!!!", which is ridiculous.
Yes, lol, exactly. I agree with everything you’ve written on this thread.
And I’d just like to tag on a quick, complementary thought here for everyone, because I feel it is being overlooked:
The entire BOH staff were heterosexual, cis men.
I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again — I faced no sexual harassment from any of my coworkers. They understood the whole premise upon which the industry was based, they understood how to comport themselves accordingly, and they understood that, as you said, just advertising that it’s okay to look:
We were there to talk to the patrons, to be observed by people, and to be poorly flirted with, lol — all of that was included with the food and the drinks, and all of that was perfectly okay because we explicitly consented to it.
I'm polyamorous, allosexual and queer and while I can imagine plenty of scenarios where sex and food exist alongside each other in hedonistic harmony, I absolutely don't "get" wanting to go to a Hooters or Tilted Kilt. They're not sexy to me at all.
And I think women are hot as fuck.
So I suspect it has a lot to do with male gaze and "superficial" sexiness ala short shorts and low cut tops. If that isn't your vibe then those places won't be appealing.
For me, at least, it's less being opposed to sexuality in public spaces and more finding those places bland as hell in corporate enforced uniforms where the aesthetic always seems to be at least a decade out of date (is this because of who the owners are or who the clientele are) and having to watch/deal with other people being gross with and about the servers is another level of distasteful.
I’m going to have to jump in here with a quick note: Queer people of all stripes visited where I worked all of the time. We actually had a club of queer poly people who booked for an event every first Wednesday of the month, and they were an absolute riot.
Plenty of my regular customer base were gay men and women — and I’m not free-handedly labeling them; they were clear about who they were themselves — and they were some of my all-time favorite people to be around.
I’m not trying to take away from what you are saying here, only pigging-backing as I just realized that people might not know that queer people were also part of the picture.
Sure, I was making it clear that I'm not an anti-sex prude and that I'm theoretically attracted to the people in the room.
I can see why that would vibe for other folks, just not in a "but I like sex and I like food so of course I want sexiness around my food" way. More in a "this place will be chill about us and we've gotten to know the servers" way. Ours was a Denny's or a local coffee shop depending.
Choosing a breasteraunt for that would be no different, except that in the shitty kink groups I found myself in the dudes would also have been creepy to servers and attendees alike. (We didn't have a Hooters locally where I lived most of my life, so this was only an issue for the attendees.)
Yes, exactly. And I’ll just add that the same could also be said about a lot of other groups that regularly booked space where I worked, even when they were, presumably, groups of heterosexual men. They just thought it was a chill environment — and they were right, it was.
In fact, most interactions I had in a workday were just… benign. Very normal, run-of-the-mill stuff.
ETA: Oh, I replied before I saw your edit with the last bit.
Your comment about male gaze lit a lightbulb for me why these places have a negative appeal to me. It's like I'm a rabbit going to a lettuce and carrots themed pub: we're all just a couple of rabbits enjoying a good time here, why so serious? Because I grew up in the generation where sexual assault victims are routinely asked what they were wearing and what their jobs entail.
A particularly awful Canadian judge only just resigned in 2017 (SA TW)
So..... I'm happy to hear it's super fun for other women working in these types of places and that they feel super safe. It's a good thing that my hang ups are my own, but I probably won't find this fun for a long time.
Oh, do we feel super safe? Or do we simply not stop doing what we want just because society might view us through a multitude of certain critical and unsympathetic lenses?
It’s no less safe than any other job I’ve had, and I’ve had a wide variety of them. I earlier stated that the threshold for sexual harassment was lower, and that’s because we were aware of how little leeway we had within that context. I had a blast working these establishments, and one of the main reasons was the lack of sexual harassment from coworkers combined with the fact that everyone was on the same page about nipping bad behavior from patrons in the bud before it could flourish and affect us all.
I honestly have not found any other workplace where I was not socially or formally punished for not having given the benefit of the doubt to someone skating the line with what people like to excuse as ‘friendly, oblivious, or lonely’ behavior since working in that industry. And this isn’t me claiming that that’s how it was for everyone, only that I can see no good reason to disregard my own lived experiences.
Also, I’m me wherever I go — which means nothing to anyone reading this because you can’t see me, but it’s also not irrelevant to this conversation. And yes — the male gaze, “legitimate rape”, wearing the wrong clothes, being the wrong type of person… yea, I’m aware of all of that; I’m affected by it, too. Everyone is.
But, what can I say — I’d already decided long before I’d ever stepped foot through that first pair of breasturant doors and breasted boobily inside to inquire about possibly applying for a job that I would simply engage with my life as I saw fit.
And I can’t say I regret my decision.
That's a really awesome thing about the restaurant that I wish all of our work places had, that they took a serious attitude against the "let's give them the benefit of the doubt" line. And you're very right about you being in your body no matter where you work or where you go. The restaurant doesn't somehow mysteriously create male gaze that doesn't exist outside of its walls.
I don't think chocobean was being sarcastic there and I feel like you're being kind of aggressive comparing "male gaze" to "legitimate rape" or "what was she wearing" as if those are somehow the same sort of thing in response to chocobean saying this was their own hangup, not the restaurant itself.
I'm really genuinely glad your experience was good and you had a positive environment. That's the ideal and I'm really happy for you. But it feels like all your frustrations in this conversation came out at Choco, who was specifically saying that those mental comparisons were internal hangups based on their past not judgements of people working there.
I’m not comparing those things, I’m just acknowledging that they are all part and parcel of rape culture in response to chocobean’s inclusion of that bit about the judge being horrible to that rape victim.
I’m also not being aggressive — I just speak this way. I speak with humor, lol, but maybe you can’t hear it. That’s alright; we read with the voice we give people in our heads, and you don’t seem to be giving me much benefit of the doubt.
I enjoyed reading what chocobean had to say, btw. It’s a facet of their world shared earnestly, and that’s why I bothered to respond to them. I shared a bit about my viewpoint — that’s it.
I have not been assuming ill of you, and I don't think you've needed the benefit of the doubt at any point in this nor am I assuming ill will. I thought that you misread Choco as being sarcastic with the use of "super" since you italicized it in response and followed it up with a "or so we simply" which is a contradicting phrase.
Glad to hear I was mistaken and my apologies for the misunderstanding on my part.
No, I’ve been on this site long enough to recognize certain handles, chocobean’s being one of them. I didn’t read any sarcasm in their remarks. They always engage in good faith, and I see no reason to doubt them now.
And anyway, who cares even if they had? Sarcasm is no great sin in my book.
Glad to hear you assume no ill will of me, definitelynotafae; I’d just feel terrible if you had.
I guess my point here is, even if they're not catering to your preference, the concept of a place that specifically markets the concept of "hey wanna look at and chat with people you find attractive while you X? Do it here!" is a very reasonable pitch.
Sure lots of restaurants aren't to my preference, and I was trying to be quite clear that I was talking about my preference. But I was responding mostly to the rest of your comment about it being disingenuous and obvious or about shame in part because the Hooters aesthetic isn't one I find particularly attractive (I'm not saying the people aren't), and in part because even the concept of "you get to socialize with hot people who are being paid to socialize with you" isn't something I'm that interested in. I don't "get" it in that sense. I don't feel "shackled" by society in that way as you described in another comment.
I get that other people obviously do enjoy it. But similarly I don't "get" why people care about the gender or genitals of their sexual partners. I know other people do, and I can intellectualize it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.
I hope all that makes sense.
Yep, 100%! I guess I was trying to clarify what kind of "get" you meant, and I totally understand not "getting" it from a "it doesn't personally appeal to me, but I can comprehend how and why it exists, and it doesn't necessarily seem like something that ought not to exist". But there's a certain type of glibness that surrounds conversations like this. Things people say they "don't get", but are actually saying, "this is weird and I don't like it but I don't want to antagonize so I'll just say I don't get it and maybe have some thinly veiled superiority over people who do enjoy it".
To be clear, I'm not saying that was you! But it's common enough that that's what I meant when I said it's hard for me not to feel like its disengenuous. I didn't mean to imply anyone was actually being disengenuous, just that because of those kinds of conversations, I have to remind myself that not everyone is coming at it like that.
I didn't think you meant it personally, just that I wanted to provide the perspective of someone who's like "why would you want to do that?" because it's so unappealing to me, without the sex-negativity angle.
I have no idea what it means, care to explain?
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/kziuvc/whats_the_deal_with_the_new_use_of_eta/
I had to look it up too, @clem, since I'm also old and had never seen ETA used as anything other than Estimated Time of Arrival either. Darn kids these days stealing already claimed acronyms! ;)
Grrr you guys! >v< made me click
"Edited To Add"
Thank you, I knew Estimated Time of Arrival, but I couldn’t figure that one out. Time for me to shake my fist on the lawn.
Sorry for making you all click--I linked to the explanation and thought that was fine, but I should've copied that text, too!
I shouldn't get started on abbreviations, but I'll just say that the way they're used today drives me nuts. There's a whole glossary of lingo you have to learn before you can get interested in a topic, and it makes me grouchy. It's not that hard to spell most things out. Changing an already established abbreviation... I just can't go there.
Back in my day, abbreviations were acronyms, but I’ve been seeing a lot of “this” > “ts” recently in memes from the youths.
I’m not sure how to feel about it but I guess there’s a little bit of pride in somewhat keeping informed of the lingo as it changes and not being completely out of the loop
The part of me that hates typing on my phone is sympathetic, but the part of me that mostly types on my computer as a result is in charge of my opinion about it. We hates it, hates it forever!
Sorry (dishonest), but brestaurant is pure poetry.
Should I .... add it to the tags list?
Yes.
Interesting retrospective, thanks for posting it.
I have two stories about Hooters. One was during a family outing in the mid-‘90s when my dad decided unilaterally that this was where we’d be having lunch. I was probably about ten and my siblings were younger so I don’t remember much, but my mom was not happy about the choice and spent the meal glowering at him. And I remember our server picking up on that and trying to convince her that Hooters was a “family restaurant.” Dad was in the doghouse for a while after that.
My other story was around 2006 when I had my first corporate office job. It was a small tech company with a largely male workforce. They would infrequently dip out for lunch trips to Hooters. I came along once and felt pretty uncomfortable about it (probably replaying that other memory in my head the whole time). Two women from the office joined us. TBH I was probably projecting my own discomfort onto them but I thought they seemed a bit put off and I caught them side-eyeing the waitstaff a couple times.
Neither story is particularly eventful but those are the only times I’ve set foot in Hooters; both experiences linger in my brain for the way their objectification of women unsettled me. It was in the years after that, that #meToo happened and I got into the feminist discourse, which gave me the vocabulary and context to make better sense of those memories.
AFAIK Hooters used a loophole to wriggle out of gender discrimination laws by hiring the women as “models” instead of “servers.” I believe their job interviews were considered auditions. And (this is blatant, irresponsible speculation) I would not be surprised in the slightest if that process involved a casting couch in at least one of those 400+ locations they had around the world.
Private equity seems to destroy every business it touches, but I’m not shedding any tears for Hooters.
One thing I’m watching with morbid curiosity is the cultural pendulum swinging rightward again in the MAGA (and broader global populist) era. Conservatives backlashed hard against #meToo and anything that smacks of it is now considered woke or censorious. These things trickle into public spaces at different speeds but I do wonder if we’re going to see a resurgence of breastaurants popping up again in the next decade.
At least at Hooters you know what you're getting. I remember back circa 2012 I took a girlfriend to Twin Peaks because we were both big David Lynch fans. It was not what we expected.
I had a similar experience when I went to a Tilted Kilt because my wife wanted shepherd's pie and we just searched for Irish food not knowing what it was. Super uncomfortable experience, and just checked their site and they also do the "casting" thing.
On a work trip some coworkers and I went to a Twin Peaks, also uninformed, and we relentlessly mocked the one coworker who suggested it.
Next night, we jokingly stated he can't pick where we go anymore and we all agreed on a place called Bombshells. Turns out, same damn thing. Two nights in a row.
I mean… that one’s on you guys lol
Funny opposite story - my wife and I were looking for gluten-free restaurants when we were in Vancouver and found a place called The Black Lodge. We laughed at the name, then looked at the menu and realized that, yes, it was actually a Twin Peaks-themed restaurant. Unfortunately I think we caught them right before COVID shut them down, and I think the newer owners at the time bought the place without having watched the show, lol. But they did keep some stuff like a little shrine to Laura Palmer in the corner, and their cherry pie was a miracle.
YVW, glad you enjoyed it.
Yeah, that about sums up my feelings on private equity, and on Hooters going under too. :/
I had a pretty similar life experience. The first and only time I was in a Hooters, I was maybe 12 or 13, so like 1996ish. I felt super uncomfortable about it and the food was terrible to boot.
Between both, the food being awful is what I remember the most. I had Chicken Wings and they were just...I dunno, they did not taste good at all. Hooters to me always seemed like low brow crap and I'm a fan of low brow, but it just... It was always a no thanks from me.
The only time I've been to Hooters was senior year of high school with my dad. It was 2005 and it was like a night or two before Prom. My dad wanted to have a man-to-man talk and tell me that if me and my date -- my then GF -- were going to have "some fun" afterwards, to be sure to play it safe. Which we already had been doing. Though tbf, he wouldn't have known that.
Why he chose Hooters to have that conversation, I have no clue. Like why couldn't we have just gone to a normal suburban restaurant like Applebees or Chili's? And yeah the food was pretty mediocre. Avoided Hooters and other restaurants like it since. Because why go to a restaurant if the main appeal isn't the food?
While I share your feeling with the uncomfortable vibe of Hooters, I was surprised at how decent the food was. I was also from the area of FL where it started, so maybe the original few locations had better quality.
I went to a Hooters with my (male, obviously) friends during one of our trips to the US, I was around 20. Somewhere in California I think. Apparently this was before it was sold so it would have been during the height of their profitability.
I remember being very uncomfortable during my whole time there (also, the food was not bad? not back then and there at least). But to be honest, what would have made me the most uncomfortable would have been the forced interaction with the wait staff. They picked up that my traveling companions wanted to talk, take pictures, etc. so there was a lot of uncomfortable closeness with strangers.
This correlates with a general discomfort I've had with the attitude of wait staff in multiple US restaurants. Everyone was much more aggressively friendly, cheerful, upbeat than in any portuguese restaurant. That's not to say restaurants in Portugal have bad service - I'd say the service averages to "pretty good" outside fast food - or that we don't have friendly wait staff/owners in some restaurants, but that's up to them. Knowing what I now know about wait staff wages and tipping culture in the US, I wonder if they acted that unnatural because they felt as if they had a gun to the back of their heads. Combine that with the theme of Hooters restaurants and it suddenly feels extra gross. Like, they weren't obliging my companions and getting so close to us out of a proactive desire to do a good job, but out of fear of taking a loss. Yuck.
Remove all that shit from the equation, and I'm honestly not opposed to a themed dining establishment hiring only physically beautiful people - as is common in some cultures around the globe. It would be dishonest of me to deny that I enjoy looking at beauty - beautiful buildings, beautiful scenery, beautiful animals, so why not beautiful people? Pay good wages proportionate to the increased expectations - they are wait staff and models at the same time. Have on-site security. Have everyone keep their distance and keep it strictly professional. I see no reason why they can't hire men. It would get rid of the gender discrimination complaints and broaden the appeal to everyone, giving the restaurant a real shot at being family friendly, as long as the spouses are both on the same page before making the decision to go. There's no reason why attractive wait staff can't be good with children, either.
Kind of, but it's mostly a cultural difference. Even when the customer service worker isn't tipped, they tend to be nicer in America. Despite the stereotypes, Americans are statistically friendly and cheery.
Servers are expected to act friendly. It varies by region. The Southern US is famous for southern hospitality, and it's not uncommon to hear pet names like "sugar" or "honey" used by wait staff. The Northeast (NYC) has more curt service, in my experience. The West coast and Midwest are somewhere in-between.
European service can feel stiff or inattentive by comparison.
Yeah, there's a cultural difference at play here for sure. I strongly dislike this kind of cheeriness. It feels fake and definitely not nice. Friendly isn't kind: it's a certain tone and appearance, but tells you nothing beyond how someone arranged their facial features. Nothing could change on their faces and they could tell you to pound sand or eat your own hands. It's actually kind of terrifying. I feel mostly uncomfortable in restaurants where they have these big-gummed smiles and overly attentive personal connection interactions.
I prefer silent, cold neutral efficiency if we're strangers. I'd rather take a scowl or a "tsk" than having to endure a minute of "how you folks doin where ya from".
Haha, that's just Americans!
I agree with the other responses you got to your post. On this particular subject, the answer is yes, some of them do feel that way and are just speed running making money from tips as best they feel they can. It may not be just for general economic/financial reasons, but they may have a specific need for a good amount of money fairly quickly and they feel that working at one of those establishments is preferable to working at a strip club or getting a high interest rate loan. For every story of an American getting into the porn industry to pay for college, there are a thousand Americans who worked at that kind of establishment as waitstaff to do the same thing, or pay for their sibling's braces, or make a downpayment on a car. There are less honorable reasons, too, I'm sure, but either way a lot of them are gritting their teeth and doing what they can to make the tips.
I’m drawing a blank; what “less honorable reasons” could there be for simply… being waitstaff at a mid-tier, local restaurant?
Also, you seem to have missed one very specific, glaringly obvious reason a person might opt to work at one of these places: It’s fun.
And being surrounded every day by beautiful people isn’t exactly a hardship.
Drugs?
Drug use as an issue is pretty par for the course, but not in any way specific to themed sports bar type restaurants; it’s just one of those broadly acknowledged elements of working in the restaurant business overall.
In short, a series of private equity acquisitions, a leveraged buyout (why have they not been outlawed already?), terrible economic conditions and an overall decline in food quality led to them filing for bankruptcy. A lot of people blame #MeToo for their decline but I don't think the movement and all the scandals they faced were significant enough to truly harm the brand, unlike American Apparel who were effectively torpedoed out of existence under similar circumstances.
The video mentions a similar chain called Twin Peaks who also have scantily-clad women as their main draw but haven't been in freefall. You could also say the same for Coyote Ugly who have effectively adopted the same concept but for bars.
I've only been to Hooters once for a birthday meal, and this was when they expanded their UK business. The food sucked, and to nobody's surprise, the location I went to shut within less than 2 years. Feminists celebrated the restaurant's closure, yet I see the Coyote Ugly Saloon that opened here months ago getting no flak despite them effectively running on the same concept (bar/restaurant staffed by predominantly women in skimpy shorts), and I genuinely think that if Twin Peaks expanded outside of the US and opened a restaurant here, it would go down really well.
Also, when looking up if Hooters still even had a presence in my country, I came across their UK website and saw this quote about their origins.
Opening "a place where they couldn't be kicked out" sounds like a red flag motivator to for anybody creating a restaurant brand. It's weird that it's only the UK arm of the business mentioning this in their branding.
I only went to Hooters once as a kid. I was maybe 8 or 9 years old, my uncle chose it for a extended family dinner. I remember being in awe at how the waitresses were dressed, it wasn't the classic white shirt and short it was like a black one piece. It wasn't an awakening for me or anything, but I do recall being like "it feels like I shouldn't be here." I had a similar thought when that same uncle took his children on a vacation in Vegas. It's like, these are places for adults why are you taking kids.
I always thought the food was gross, and I don't really understand the concept of wanting to be turned on as you're eating. But it does occupy a space in my mind as to how the 00s felt like.
Neither do I, and I’m struggling with how not to be sarcastic while pointing out the obvious here, so I’ll limit myself to simply saying that your uncle, along with many of the fathers described in other comments, just sounds like a certain type of guy. Plenty of people can and do go out to eat with their kids at these sorts of themed restaurants without making everyone slightly suspicious of or uncomfortable with their motives.
A waitstaff comprised of pretty ladies all decked out in outfits no more offensive or revealing than those worn by cheerleaders isn’t there to ‘turn anyone on’. These aren’t strip clubs or topless bars — though I have no doubt there are those who do not recognize or understand the difference — these are sports restaurants/bars.
I worked at these types of establishments, and just so happened to be one of the people who would step in to keep an eye on things when the vibes were off — and, let me assure you, anyone believing that the waitstaff were there to get them all hot and bothered was a pretty clear-cut ‘vibes are off’ situation. None of us were there to cater to that sort of thing*; we were there to sell food and drinks, albeit with a gimmick.
*Playful banter was an aspect of the job — hence the whole “casting” thing. FOH were hired as ‘entertainers’, and were expected to be fun to be around, to literally be entertaining, to create a carefree, upbeat environment, as part of the job. Most of the time this simply meant not being too curt with service or a Debbie downer while on the floor. We were required to spend at least a portion of our time chatting with customers about whatever, just being engaging, as opposed to other restaurants where the FOH staff light-heartedly joking around was not an expected part of the experience.
Very much so.
I think "turned on" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Personally I think it makes a ton of sense to be turned on in a place like that, but that doesn't automatically mean the objective is to take a server home and have sex with her.
A cute, sexy, fun woman being playful and a bit flirty is definitely a turn on. But that doesn't mean I should be surprised when that's all it is. That's the movie I sat down at. I am happy to engage my suspension of disbelief and let my brain feel the endorphin rush of being chatted with by such a cutie who is definitely into me... And then pay my check and go home and feel a little taller for a day or two.
I’ve genuinely never experienced that, so I’ll just take your word for it.
And, honestly, as long as all of that is all happening solely internally and one can remain respectful and it in no way affects how one treats the subject of their attention, then it is what it is.
But, for the record, when I say ‘turn on’ I was referring to a specific class of behavior that was very outwardly disrespectful. There is a subset of person who places all responsibility for their own desires on the subjects of those desires and acts out in various ways to bend said subject’s will towards their own self-appointed goals. They usually fall into believing that if they see something and they like it, then it must be there for their taking.
These types must be dealt with immediately, because, if even one is allowed to linger, that mindset will spread, and it will spread fast.
Ah, see, and that's very strange to me. From my perspective, someone being disrespectful because of the way they feel is an entirely different thing than them simply feeling that way.
The food court at a mall might reasonably make a person feel hungry, due to the sights and sounds. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable or unexpected. But we would still be upset with that person if they jumped over the counter and started shoveling Orange Chicken into their face. It feels the same to me. A breastaurant is a reasonable place that someone might feel turned on, but that's an entirely different matter from being an asshat. Honestly, if they're an asshat there, they're probably as asshat everywhere, and it probably doesn't have a lot to do with whether or not they're "turned on". But I guess the kinds of things a "turned on" asshat might do are significantly worse than the kinds of things a hungry asshat might do, so...
But I dunno, maybe my experience is very different from the average person's. It must be, based on how most people talk about attraction and sexuality.
I had a summer job after my freshman year of college working for an electrical testing company. Lots of travel, working in substations and other remote locations.
I was paired up with one guy for a trip to Dallas (2 hr drive). At 10:30 AM, he suddenly exits and says, "we're stopping here for lunch." Here turned out to be Hooters, and he spent the meal telling me proudly that he had been to every Hooters in Texas, loudly commenting who the "best" (biggest breasted) waitresses were at this particular location, and telling me how dissatisfied he was with his wife's breasts. I was 19 and from a fairly sheltered conservative religious background, so it was a lot. I spent the meal maintaining eye contact with the servers and trying not to bolt. I couldn't have told you a single thing about the food, except that there was some.
Fortunately, I was paired up with a much nicer fellow after that and worked with him most of the summer. We did not ever eat at a Hooters, and I don't think I've been in one since.
Was it a form of hazing, on the part of your coworker, to watch you be uncomfortable?
I honestly think he just had no filter. This job was basically construction, and it was in East Texas back in 2000, so the culture on the job was very much macho/bro/toxic masculinity. I don't think he'd have had any reason to think I might be uncomfortable nor the emotional intelligence to pick up on it.
So I went to a Hooters once, when I lived in Florida. Understand that I had some serious culture shock encountering South Florida feminine esthetics. I'd never seen so many women with obvious breast enhancements, including petite girls barely out of their teens with weirdly spherical DD+ boobs totally out of proportion to their bodies, or 70+ year olds sporting completely horizontal shelf racks. People have the right to modify their bodies as they choose, but as a matter of taste, I often found their choices (especially when combined with extensive plastic surgery, Botox, and fillers) well into the uncanny valley.
I was the only female-appearing person on a big IT team, and pretty much got along as one of the guys. My response when they wanted to go to Hooters (ostensibly because they were craving Hooters' hot wings) was a shrug and a "nothing I haven't seen before, heh heh heh".
Mostly, I felt sad for the waitresses. They weren't the people with thousands of dollars to spare for all the popular enhancements. They looked like ordinary women making the best of their situations, trying to give the customers the experience that they went to Hooters for. Bouncing, jiggling, and smiling, they served us bad food in an ugly chain restaurant with the smell of overused fryer grease. We weren't easy to serve, either - there were only two waitresses on duty for the whole place, we showed up in a group of 12, the kitchen held up the orders for 30 minutes, and we were all antsy to get back to work for various scheduled meetings and events.
Everyone ante'ed up big tips out of pity for the overworked staff, but there was general agreement we'd never go back.
Yikes that's a big group for a restaurant that probably never see that kind of volume all at once. Was it for lunch or dinner?
It was a lunchtime visit. The Hooters was situated in an area with many large corporate offices. Some members of our team were regular customers. They didn't think we would need to call ahead. There were other tables of 8+ people, and we didn't have to wait for a large table to open up or smaller tables to be joined. The place was just grossly understaffed, and I suspect that was the private equity influence.
How unfortunate. /s
Ever been to one? :)