At a Game Developers Conference (GDC) panel today, Larian Studios founder Swen Vincke dropped something of a bombshell by revealing that the developer isn't planning to release any expansions or DLC for Baldur's Gate 3, nor a Baldur's Gate 4.
Instead, Vincke said at the panel, Larian plans to move away from Dungeons & Dragons entirely and do something new, leaving the IP in publisher Wizards of the Coast's hands.
Makes sense. WOTC can be a pain in the ass to deal with, like almost any IP owner is. I'd be sad if they went back to do more divinity in the weird cartoonish style of divinity. I enjoyed BG3 more...
Makes sense. WOTC can be a pain in the ass to deal with, like almost any IP owner is.
I'd be sad if they went back to do more divinity in the weird cartoonish style of divinity. I enjoyed BG3 more than the divinity OS series because it took itself seriously and treated the player as an adult. With D:OS series, almost everything had this weird feeling as though it was all trying to be tongue-in-cheek or lampoon something that I couldn't quite grasp. Fun enough games, to be sure, but BG3 was a step above them.
I actually love DOS's humorous style. It blends fantasy with humor really well. Minor DOS1 spoilers that will ruin an in-game joke Like those magical stones in DOS1 where they tell you they can...
I actually love DOS's humorous style. It blends fantasy with humor really well.
Minor DOS1 spoilers that will ruin an in-game joke
Like those magical stones in DOS1 where they tell you they can show you the end of time, and if you click on them, they show you the credits and it's game over.
The ability to talk to animals changes the game immensely as well. There are quite a bit of features, jokes, quests etc. in the game that gave me a chuckle or a smile. But despite this, especially in the second game, some of the plotlines in it are treated with weight.
Major DOS2 spoilers
The end of Sebille's quest, for example, left me feeling for her. It was an awful choice and situation she was forced into, and its narrative spoke to me. In a different example, Lohse's questline had a really great build-up to the final confrontation, which was intense. Ifan's whole guilt and trauma plot was also treated with dignity. In none of these questlines I felt as if their weight was mocked with juvenile humor.
I don't think the game (DOS2, because I don't remember DOS1 much) didn't have narrative weight in every area, because it got it when it wanted to. But they chose to be humorous about a lot of elements in the setting and story, and I don't think it's because it treats the player like a child. It's just a creative difference—one I appreciate because you don't see captivating crpgs in this narrative style often.
With this being said, I do like BG3's writing more in various ways. The variety of RP choices, the oomph of the main quest (which I'm still continuing), the interesting NPCs and encounters, the more tragic encounters or questlines—these I do appreciate. So I do get appreciating a narrative with more weight into it, I do too, but I don't think it's fair to say DOS's humorous narrative means the audience wasn't treated like an adult.
One last thing, about lampooning, I never got the feeling that the writers were mean-spirited in their use of humor. So I don't know what you mean by that part, and I'm interested in finding out if you want to elaborate.
Edit: Forgot to say. I would also be curious to see what they could do with a new IP. I love DOS2, and I wouldn't mind getting a new game, but Larian has so much creative potential that I'm curious to see what new things they will create.
I greatly preferred the gameplay as well. DoS2 had a habit of every combat being some variation of everything being on fire/poisoned/something. That and the physical/magic armor system. Greatly...
I greatly preferred the gameplay as well. DoS2 had a habit of every combat being some variation of everything being on fire/poisoned/something. That and the physical/magic armor system. Greatly prefer the armor class system of tabletop games.
I think even if they'd made DoS3 instead of BG3 they learned that "oops EVERYTHING is on fire" wasn't really fun. They had a new surface system that was cool, but steered into it too heavily and...
I think even if they'd made DoS3 instead of BG3 they learned that "oops EVERYTHING is on fire" wasn't really fun. They had a new surface system that was cool, but steered into it too heavily and it greatly affected the combat. I'm sure the next game would've kept that in mind and done a lot of tweaking to how that system worked, how common such things were, and so on so it wasn't a "goal" to make sure the entire level wasn't on fire.
Poison being flammable felt especially silly and really helped push the problem.
Going out on a high note and letting the community build on it. Bold but promising move to sustain their sales long-term IMO - I can see BG3 being a game with huge staying power due to a modding...
The developers are currently working on a "robust and cross-platform" mod support plan to accommodate additions from the community as well.
Going out on a high note and letting the community build on it. Bold but promising move to sustain their sales long-term IMO - I can see BG3 being a game with huge staying power due to a modding community, like Skyrim, GTA V, GMod, etc.
Maybe, but given Hasbro's other attempts to monetize their fan's creativity, I wouldn't be surprised if modders were wary of having Hasbro cash in on their hard work.
Maybe, but given Hasbro's other attempts to monetize their fan's creativity, I wouldn't be surprised if modders were wary of having Hasbro cash in on their hard work.
There are probably a significant number of people who feel that way, but the game audience is massive to the point where I'm not sure it matters: plenty of people are willing to make stuff for the...
There are probably a significant number of people who feel that way, but the game audience is massive to the point where I'm not sure it matters: plenty of people are willing to make stuff for the hell of it. E.g., consider of volume of MIT-licensed code on Github.
Most projects never come near the threshold of "worth stealing" either - though you're right that it might stifle larger-scale overhaul projects with custom models and voice acting.
As someone who walked away from contributing to development of an open-source survival game because of the senior developers' attitude, I can tell you that projects not worth stealing can still be...
As someone who walked away from contributing to development of an open-source survival game because of the senior developers' attitude, I can tell you that projects not worth stealing can still be killed by hostile or negative attitudes on the part of the people who control the system you're trying to contribute to. My contribution doesn't have to be "worth stealing" for the game to no longer be worth contributing to.
There's an interview regarding this with GameSpot that's really well done. The interviewer asks some poignant questions. Swen Vincke all but confirms (my suspicions) that they're pulling away from...
There's an interview regarding this with GameSpot that's really well done. The interviewer asks some poignant questions.
Swen Vincke all but confirms (my suspicions) that they're pulling away from Wizards of the Coast for the reason that WotC is scummy.
I remember hearing after the Hasbro/WotC layoffs that no one who was originally at the table during BG3 development was there anymore. Any future work would require starting from square one to...
I remember hearing after the Hasbro/WotC layoffs that no one who was originally at the table during BG3 development was there anymore. Any future work would require starting from square one to develop relationships, set expectations and communications, get used to working rhythms... and I would wonder whether anyone from the WotC side has anyone with passion for the game (DnD or BG3) or whether they're only really there on business. I remember when the backlash against WotC was in full force last year due to the discussion around licensing and fan-created materials; it seemed that they were not really clued in to the gaming community or the product outside of its monetization possibilities.
Larian proved that you can make profits, keep your team happy, and create an exceptional product. Good leadership and good allocation of adequate time and resources. I'm very sad that there won't be any Larian-created DLC or sequels, but I'm excited to see what they do next, and interested to see if WotC approves any further work on the franchise in the near future.
It seems like such a no-brainer from the WotC side of things to try to do whatever they can to cultivate an ongoing working relationship with Larian. And yet, here we are. I don't know why it's so...
It seems like such a no-brainer from the WotC side of things to try to do whatever they can to cultivate an ongoing working relationship with Larian. And yet, here we are.
I don't know why it's so hard for business types to understand that creative things are not widgets. (Well, that's not entirely true. I suspect there is a specific personality trait that strongly influences why your average MBA can't work well with creatives.)
A large number of people who work for WotC are there for the love of at least one game or because working there is cool. As a Washington company they're required to post salary ranges, so you can...
I would wonder whether anyone from the WotC side has anyone with passion for the game (DnD or BG3) or whether they're only really there on business.
A large number of people who work for WotC are there for the love of at least one game or because working there is cool. As a Washington company they're required to post salary ranges, so you can make your own conclusions on that.
It honestly sounds like the best move for the studio in a creative sense. Vincke had previously mentioned that their next project will be much smaller in scale; perhaps we'll see an inventive...
It honestly sounds like the best move for the studio in a creative sense. Vincke had previously mentioned that their next project will be much smaller in scale; perhaps we'll see an inventive passion project somewhat akin to Hi-Fi Rush in spirit.
Good for them. I love the game and would love a sequel, but I completely get the desire to do something different (and, most likely, not have to worry about living up to massive expectations).
Good for them. I love the game and would love a sequel, but I completely get the desire to do something different (and, most likely, not have to worry about living up to massive expectations).
Would love to see Larian try their hand at a completely different setting. I'm happy that the CRPG is coming back but I'd hate for it to be shoeboxed for Tolkien fantasy. If some big IP holders...
Would love to see Larian try their hand at a completely different setting. I'm happy that the CRPG is coming back but I'd hate for it to be shoeboxed for Tolkien fantasy. If some big IP holders have taken notice then the sky's the limit. Dr Who, Star Trek, Planet of the Apes, Judge Dredd.
What I really want is a secret world game in the Larian sandbox. Supernatural and Men in Black seem to have settings that would combine social, environmental and combat gameplay.
For some reason I go ballistic for XCOM but find most turn-based fantasy RPGs a bit dull, so a sci-fi Larian game might be the new hotness I didn't know I even wanted. Either way, I'll be keeping...
For some reason I go ballistic for XCOM but find most turn-based fantasy RPGs a bit dull, so a sci-fi Larian game might be the new hotness I didn't know I even wanted. Either way, I'll be keeping an eye out for their next game.
Turn-based RPG's are often some of the worst games when it comes to the amount of time between meaningful decisions. So many of them have game balance where you're expected to use the basic attack...
Turn-based RPG's are often some of the worst games when it comes to the amount of time between meaningful decisions. So many of them have game balance where you're expected to use the basic attack 8 or 12 times in a battle, and then you win. What fun is that? X-Com, by comparison, every choice is the difference between success and brutal punishment. They're both turn-based, but X-Com has way more respect for your time.
What bothers me in JRPGs are the endless animations. Animation to enter battle, animation for every single ability, animation for XP gain, animation to leave battle. With random encounters...
What bothers me in JRPGs are the endless animations. Animation to enter battle, animation for every single ability, animation for XP gain, animation to leave battle. With random encounters thousands of times per hour. Everything is unskippable. Thankfully, emulators have fast forward. Combat is painfully slow and repetitive.
You just explained why I have so many JRPGs 25-75% finished and yet abandoned for months at a time. There should be a function that once you hit level 3-5 you can turn off all that nonsense, or...
You just explained why I have so many JRPGs 25-75% finished and yet abandoned for months at a time. There should be a function that once you hit level 3-5 you can turn off all that nonsense, or even turn off the random encounters entirely unless you're looking to grind on purpose.
Earthbound remains one of the best RPGs of all time for that, among other reasons. Once you're stronger than the encounters, they start fleeing you rather than trying to engage, and if you hit...
Earthbound remains one of the best RPGs of all time for that, among other reasons. Once you're stronger than the encounters, they start fleeing you rather than trying to engage, and if you hit them from behind when you could one-shot them, they just die instantly and you get the rewards without even a screen transition.
I never thought about it that way, but you raise a fair point. I absolutely love RTWP RPGs because I feel like I have more control over the battle flow, including being able to relinquish some...
I never thought about it that way, but you raise a fair point. I absolutely love RTWP RPGs because I feel like I have more control over the battle flow, including being able to relinquish some control in a conscious move, in exchange for a much faster pace and occasional moments of surprise. In XCOM there's none of that, but you're right in that the slant of a battle can entirely reverse in sometimes a single move in the opponent's turn.
I get it and I think Baldars Gate made an effort to keep the combat far more flexible, especially by breaking away from grids. It's a major limitation in my mind, particularly with how XComs...
I get it and I think Baldars Gate made an effort to keep the combat far more flexible, especially by breaking away from grids. It's a major limitation in my mind, particularly with how XComs entire world design was limited to very blocky geometry. I know the turn-based system was made to facilitate real-life, tabletop gameplay and could conveniently accommodate limited computing capabilities. Right now it feels ancient but its such a big part of game design and reinventing it is always risky.
Also, I do think the post XCOM2 world would make for an amazing RPG setting. Especially with how we have so much lore and context already. I loved the idea of Chimera Squad but it feels like a character driven RPG that they had to force into the traditional XCOM framework.
Do you have other recent CRPG recommendations? I'm really enjoying Baldur's Gate and the old bioware RPGs -- especially KOTOR 1&2 and Mass Effect 1&2 -- are some of my favorite games
Do you have other recent CRPG recommendations? I'm really enjoying Baldur's Gate and the old bioware RPGs -- especially KOTOR 1&2 and Mass Effect 1&2 -- are some of my favorite games
Off the top of my head, Pillars of Eternity 2 and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous are solid Fantasy RPGs where you've got a lot of character options and can make important story decisions right...
Off the top of my head, Pillars of Eternity 2 and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous are solid Fantasy RPGs where you've got a lot of character options and can make important story decisions right off the bat. Larians original Divinity games are also good but the early-game slog made them not worth a second play-through for me. Also I cant articulate why, but Tyranny is one of my favorite games and I hate that they botched the ending so bad.
And if you want something more old school, Steam has the original Neverwinter Nights series and Baldurs Gate 1 and 2. If you want to go all the way back to party-based dungeon crawlers: Wizardry: Proving Grounds is an amazing remake (completely unrelated: Digital Eclipse also make gaming history showcases that's exceptionally well made).
Away from fantasy, Wasteland 3 is good post-apocalyptic fun and I think does Fallout themes far better than Bethesda. It has a lot of old school Bioware mixed in does put you in difficult social situations where doing the right thing compromises the mission. If you want to go weird, Caves of Qud combines engaging story with a comprehensive world simulation (at the cost of looking like a spreadsheet). Also I'm sure you played Disco Elysium and if you liked it, Pathalogic is a similarly cerebral game, if very impenetrable to a new or casual player. The sequel takes one of the original games stories and slaps a fresh coat of paint on it so that is an option.
From there, any recommendations would go into the weeds on the idea of CRPGs, especially if you want to include JRPG and ARPG and elements of other genres. Like I'd consider Frostpunk and Dwarf Fortress RPG but people are happy to argue that.
Another recommendation for anyone who likes Disco Elysium is Planescape: Torment. It's set in a D&D universe iirc and runs in the same engine as the old fallout games (making it more of a classic...
Another recommendation for anyone who likes Disco Elysium is Planescape: Torment. It's set in a D&D universe iirc and runs in the same engine as the old fallout games (making it more of a classic CRPG than DE), but it's frequently touted as "the most philosophical game ever made". It's one of the only games other than DE which I've heard people gush about that way.
Precision: it's in the Forgotten Realms cosmology, but it's very far from the standard elf/dwarves/magician/knights setting that we're used to. In fact it's a game that almost tries to play with...
D&D universe
Precision: it's in the Forgotten Realms cosmology, but it's very far from the standard elf/dwarves/magician/knights setting that we're used to. In fact it's a game that almost tries to play with it or go against as many standard fantasy tropes as possible (low stake spoilers: rats are very powerful enemies, and there's hardly any swords in the game).
Wasteland 3 is on my radar and I believe I own PoE... Something from one of the Epic giveaways, or maybe a humble bundle, so I'll definitely check that out too. Pathologic is new to me, so I'll...
Wasteland 3 is on my radar and I believe I own PoE... Something from one of the Epic giveaways, or maybe a humble bundle, so I'll definitely check that out too. Pathologic is new to me, so I'll look into it. Appreciate this detailed response!
As someone who was thoroughly 'whelmed' by BG3, I'm glad to hear this. Larian's a knockout of a studio, and one of the few developers to make a turn-based RPG I can find enjoyment in (DOS1/2...
As someone who was thoroughly 'whelmed' by BG3, I'm glad to hear this. Larian's a knockout of a studio, and one of the few developers to make a turn-based RPG I can find enjoyment in (DOS1/2 specifically, particularly 1). So selfishly, it's good to hear they won't be tied to Baldur's Gate. I also like seeing companies develop their own IPs when they can, and right now Larian feels like they've got the same reputation that Blizzard had back in the early 00s. Might as well leverage that.
I suppose in games I like a more stylized (or at least older, and less realistic as a result) art style, for one. Baldur's Gate felt very realistic in aesthetic, from character models to scenery....
I suppose in games I like a more stylized (or at least older, and less realistic as a result) art style, for one. Baldur's Gate felt very realistic in aesthetic, from character models to scenery. I never played it or cared much to look into the story so that wasn't a factor, but nothing I saw in promotion or heard from friends made me feel anything beyond 'wow, that's an impressive sounding RPG with a lot of character choices and potential impact.' You know, it just never clicked. I've even watched gameplay footage of it and it never crossed that threshold of 'this looks well made' to 'this looks fun, I should play it.'
Some games are like that to me for reasons I have trouble articulating. It's why I adore the Devil May Cry games and yet am mostly neutral, slightly negative in opinion on most Fromsoft games.
Happy to hear they aren't producing anymore content for BG3. The game is done and an impressive showcase of passion and skill. No reason to milk it for more money. I'm not good at playing expanded...
Happy to hear they aren't producing anymore content for BG3. The game is done and an impressive showcase of passion and skill. No reason to milk it for more money. I'm not good at playing expanded content so I'd much rather a new project than see a studio slog away at this . Make something new I'll be happy to buy it.
Makes sense. WOTC can be a pain in the ass to deal with, like almost any IP owner is.
I'd be sad if they went back to do more divinity in the weird cartoonish style of divinity. I enjoyed BG3 more than the divinity OS series because it took itself seriously and treated the player as an adult. With D:OS series, almost everything had this weird feeling as though it was all trying to be tongue-in-cheek or lampoon something that I couldn't quite grasp. Fun enough games, to be sure, but BG3 was a step above them.
I actually love DOS's humorous style. It blends fantasy with humor really well.
Minor DOS1 spoilers that will ruin an in-game joke
Like those magical stones in DOS1 where they tell you they can show you the end of time, and if you click on them, they show you the credits and it's game over.
The ability to talk to animals changes the game immensely as well. There are quite a bit of features, jokes, quests etc. in the game that gave me a chuckle or a smile. But despite this, especially in the second game, some of the plotlines in it are treated with weight.
Major DOS2 spoilers
The end of Sebille's quest, for example, left me feeling for her. It was an awful choice and situation she was forced into, and its narrative spoke to me. In a different example, Lohse's questline had a really great build-up to the final confrontation, which was intense. Ifan's whole guilt and trauma plot was also treated with dignity. In none of these questlines I felt as if their weight was mocked with juvenile humor.
I don't think the game (DOS2, because I don't remember DOS1 much) didn't have narrative weight in every area, because it got it when it wanted to. But they chose to be humorous about a lot of elements in the setting and story, and I don't think it's because it treats the player like a child. It's just a creative difference—one I appreciate because you don't see captivating crpgs in this narrative style often.
With this being said, I do like BG3's writing more in various ways. The variety of RP choices, the oomph of the main quest (which I'm still continuing), the interesting NPCs and encounters, the more tragic encounters or questlines—these I do appreciate. So I do get appreciating a narrative with more weight into it, I do too, but I don't think it's fair to say DOS's humorous narrative means the audience wasn't treated like an adult.
One last thing, about lampooning, I never got the feeling that the writers were mean-spirited in their use of humor. So I don't know what you mean by that part, and I'm interested in finding out if you want to elaborate.
Edit: Forgot to say. I would also be curious to see what they could do with a new IP. I love DOS2, and I wouldn't mind getting a new game, but Larian has so much creative potential that I'm curious to see what new things they will create.
I greatly preferred the gameplay as well. DoS2 had a habit of every combat being some variation of everything being on fire/poisoned/something. That and the physical/magic armor system. Greatly prefer the armor class system of tabletop games.
I think even if they'd made DoS3 instead of BG3 they learned that "oops EVERYTHING is on fire" wasn't really fun. They had a new surface system that was cool, but steered into it too heavily and it greatly affected the combat. I'm sure the next game would've kept that in mind and done a lot of tweaking to how that system worked, how common such things were, and so on so it wasn't a "goal" to make sure the entire level wasn't on fire.
Poison being flammable felt especially silly and really helped push the problem.
Going out on a high note and letting the community build on it. Bold but promising move to sustain their sales long-term IMO - I can see BG3 being a game with huge staying power due to a modding community, like Skyrim, GTA V, GMod, etc.
Maybe, but given Hasbro's other attempts to monetize their fan's creativity, I wouldn't be surprised if modders were wary of having Hasbro cash in on their hard work.
There are probably a significant number of people who feel that way, but the game audience is massive to the point where I'm not sure it matters: plenty of people are willing to make stuff for the hell of it. E.g., consider of volume of MIT-licensed code on Github.
Most projects never come near the threshold of "worth stealing" either - though you're right that it might stifle larger-scale overhaul projects with custom models and voice acting.
As someone who walked away from contributing to development of an open-source survival game because of the senior developers' attitude, I can tell you that projects not worth stealing can still be killed by hostile or negative attitudes on the part of the people who control the system you're trying to contribute to. My contribution doesn't have to be "worth stealing" for the game to no longer be worth contributing to.
There's an interview regarding this with GameSpot that's really well done. The interviewer asks some poignant questions.
Swen Vincke all but confirms (my suspicions) that they're pulling away from Wizards of the Coast for the reason that WotC is scummy.
Here it is: https://youtu.be/egQgPD1wd7A
I remember hearing after the Hasbro/WotC layoffs that no one who was originally at the table during BG3 development was there anymore. Any future work would require starting from square one to develop relationships, set expectations and communications, get used to working rhythms... and I would wonder whether anyone from the WotC side has anyone with passion for the game (DnD or BG3) or whether they're only really there on business. I remember when the backlash against WotC was in full force last year due to the discussion around licensing and fan-created materials; it seemed that they were not really clued in to the gaming community or the product outside of its monetization possibilities.
Larian proved that you can make profits, keep your team happy, and create an exceptional product. Good leadership and good allocation of adequate time and resources. I'm very sad that there won't be any Larian-created DLC or sequels, but I'm excited to see what they do next, and interested to see if WotC approves any further work on the franchise in the near future.
It seems like such a no-brainer from the WotC side of things to try to do whatever they can to cultivate an ongoing working relationship with Larian. And yet, here we are.
I don't know why it's so hard for business types to understand that creative things are not widgets. (Well, that's not entirely true. I suspect there is a specific personality trait that strongly influences why your average MBA can't work well with creatives.)
A large number of people who work for WotC are there for the love of at least one game or because working there is cool. As a Washington company they're required to post salary ranges, so you can make your own conclusions on that.
Hah I talked to a dev at Larian at PAX East today, he was talking about how difficult WoTC was to work with, and referenced.
It honestly sounds like the best move for the studio in a creative sense. Vincke had previously mentioned that their next project will be much smaller in scale; perhaps we'll see an inventive passion project somewhat akin to Hi-Fi Rush in spirit.
Good for them. I love the game and would love a sequel, but I completely get the desire to do something different (and, most likely, not have to worry about living up to massive expectations).
Would love to see Larian try their hand at a completely different setting. I'm happy that the CRPG is coming back but I'd hate for it to be shoeboxed for Tolkien fantasy. If some big IP holders have taken notice then the sky's the limit. Dr Who, Star Trek, Planet of the Apes, Judge Dredd.
What I really want is a secret world game in the Larian sandbox. Supernatural and Men in Black seem to have settings that would combine social, environmental and combat gameplay.
I hadn't thought about it until your post, but I would *love" to see Larian's take on scifi.
Traveller?
Never played it! Is it good?
It's the only game I've played where your character can die during creation! Seriously, find a traveler character generator, it's pretty fun.
Just started with some friends so I can’t say yet
For some reason I go ballistic for XCOM but find most turn-based fantasy RPGs a bit dull, so a sci-fi Larian game might be the new hotness I didn't know I even wanted. Either way, I'll be keeping an eye out for their next game.
Turn-based RPG's are often some of the worst games when it comes to the amount of time between meaningful decisions. So many of them have game balance where you're expected to use the basic attack 8 or 12 times in a battle, and then you win. What fun is that? X-Com, by comparison, every choice is the difference between success and brutal punishment. They're both turn-based, but X-Com has way more respect for your time.
What bothers me in JRPGs are the endless animations. Animation to enter battle, animation for every single ability, animation for XP gain, animation to leave battle. With random encounters thousands of times per hour. Everything is unskippable. Thankfully, emulators have fast forward. Combat is painfully slow and repetitive.
You just explained why I have so many JRPGs 25-75% finished and yet abandoned for months at a time. There should be a function that once you hit level 3-5 you can turn off all that nonsense, or even turn off the random encounters entirely unless you're looking to grind on purpose.
Earthbound remains one of the best RPGs of all time for that, among other reasons. Once you're stronger than the encounters, they start fleeing you rather than trying to engage, and if you hit them from behind when you could one-shot them, they just die instantly and you get the rewards without even a screen transition.
Classic JRPGs are objectively better on emulators. I highly recommend it. I got a clip that attaches my Xbox gamepad to my phone. It's great.
The remastered versions of Final Fantasy X/X-2 thankfully has this feature, which is helpful for grinding levels or money.
I never thought about it that way, but you raise a fair point. I absolutely love RTWP RPGs because I feel like I have more control over the battle flow, including being able to relinquish some control in a conscious move, in exchange for a much faster pace and occasional moments of surprise. In XCOM there's none of that, but you're right in that the slant of a battle can entirely reverse in sometimes a single move in the opponent's turn.
I get it and I think Baldars Gate made an effort to keep the combat far more flexible, especially by breaking away from grids. It's a major limitation in my mind, particularly with how XComs entire world design was limited to very blocky geometry. I know the turn-based system was made to facilitate real-life, tabletop gameplay and could conveniently accommodate limited computing capabilities. Right now it feels ancient but its such a big part of game design and reinventing it is always risky.
Also, I do think the post XCOM2 world would make for an amazing RPG setting. Especially with how we have so much lore and context already. I loved the idea of Chimera Squad but it feels like a character driven RPG that they had to force into the traditional XCOM framework.
Do you have other recent CRPG recommendations? I'm really enjoying Baldur's Gate and the old bioware RPGs -- especially KOTOR 1&2 and Mass Effect 1&2 -- are some of my favorite games
Off the top of my head, Pillars of Eternity 2 and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous are solid Fantasy RPGs where you've got a lot of character options and can make important story decisions right off the bat. Larians original Divinity games are also good but the early-game slog made them not worth a second play-through for me. Also I cant articulate why, but Tyranny is one of my favorite games and I hate that they botched the ending so bad.
And if you want something more old school, Steam has the original Neverwinter Nights series and Baldurs Gate 1 and 2. If you want to go all the way back to party-based dungeon crawlers: Wizardry: Proving Grounds is an amazing remake (completely unrelated: Digital Eclipse also make gaming history showcases that's exceptionally well made).
Away from fantasy, Wasteland 3 is good post-apocalyptic fun and I think does Fallout themes far better than Bethesda. It has a lot of old school Bioware mixed in does put you in difficult social situations where doing the right thing compromises the mission. If you want to go weird, Caves of Qud combines engaging story with a comprehensive world simulation (at the cost of looking like a spreadsheet). Also I'm sure you played Disco Elysium and if you liked it, Pathalogic is a similarly cerebral game, if very impenetrable to a new or casual player. The sequel takes one of the original games stories and slaps a fresh coat of paint on it so that is an option.
From there, any recommendations would go into the weeds on the idea of CRPGs, especially if you want to include JRPG and ARPG and elements of other genres. Like I'd consider Frostpunk and Dwarf Fortress RPG but people are happy to argue that.
Hope that helped.
Another recommendation for anyone who likes Disco Elysium is Planescape: Torment. It's set in a D&D universe iirc and runs in the same engine as the old fallout games (making it more of a classic CRPG than DE), but it's frequently touted as "the most philosophical game ever made". It's one of the only games other than DE which I've heard people gush about that way.
Precision: it's in the Forgotten Realms cosmology, but it's very far from the standard elf/dwarves/magician/knights setting that we're used to. In fact it's a game that almost tries to play with it or go against as many standard fantasy tropes as possible (low stake spoilers: rats are very powerful enemies, and there's hardly any swords in the game).
Wasteland 3 is on my radar and I believe I own PoE... Something from one of the Epic giveaways, or maybe a humble bundle, so I'll definitely check that out too. Pathologic is new to me, so I'll look into it. Appreciate this detailed response!
As someone who was thoroughly 'whelmed' by BG3, I'm glad to hear this. Larian's a knockout of a studio, and one of the few developers to make a turn-based RPG I can find enjoyment in (DOS1/2 specifically, particularly 1). So selfishly, it's good to hear they won't be tied to Baldur's Gate. I also like seeing companies develop their own IPs when they can, and right now Larian feels like they've got the same reputation that Blizzard had back in the early 00s. Might as well leverage that.
Out of interest why did you not particularly like BG3?
I suppose in games I like a more stylized (or at least older, and less realistic as a result) art style, for one. Baldur's Gate felt very realistic in aesthetic, from character models to scenery. I never played it or cared much to look into the story so that wasn't a factor, but nothing I saw in promotion or heard from friends made me feel anything beyond 'wow, that's an impressive sounding RPG with a lot of character choices and potential impact.' You know, it just never clicked. I've even watched gameplay footage of it and it never crossed that threshold of 'this looks well made' to 'this looks fun, I should play it.'
Some games are like that to me for reasons I have trouble articulating. It's why I adore the Devil May Cry games and yet am mostly neutral, slightly negative in opinion on most Fromsoft games.
Larian have come a long way and one of my favorite studios. Would love them like another commenter suggested have a shot at turn based scifi rpg .
Happy to hear they aren't producing anymore content for BG3. The game is done and an impressive showcase of passion and skill. No reason to milk it for more money. I'm not good at playing expanded content so I'd much rather a new project than see a studio slog away at this . Make something new I'll be happy to buy it.