From the linked study (2018) on transfer of BFRs to hot cooking oil. Based on this data it seems like BFRs are largely phased out as of a decade ago. The three post-2011 utensils with detectable...
Exemplary
From the linked study (2018) on transfer of BFRs to hot cooking oil.
we collected 96 plastic kitchen utensils and screened for Br content using a hand-held X-ray fluorescence (XRF) spectrometer. Only 3 out of 27 utensils purchased after 2011 contained detectable concentrations of Br (≥ 3 μg/g). In contrast, Br was detected in 31 out of the 69 utensils purchased before 2011.
Based on this data it seems like BFRs are largely phased out as of a decade ago. The three post-2011 utensils with detectable Br had at most 8 ppm (3 ppm detection limit). They only selected samples with more than 100 ppm bromine for GCMS analysis. Some of those GCMS samples were below detection limit for basically all BFRs, so all the utensils purchased after 2011 could be considered to be very low in BFRs.
So I guess the title really should be "Throw out your black plastic spatula if it's over 13 years old".
My comment about the other (much more recent) major study this article is based on is a reply to another unrelated comment, and is easy to miss. So it's probably worth copying it here too since...
My comment about the other (much more recent) major study this article is based on is a reply to another unrelated comment, and is easy to miss. So it's probably worth copying it here too since that study also makes some important distinctions that the article completely fails to mention:
...all my kitchen utensils are nylon, which I think are great (way more rigid and thin than silicone ones). It's still a plastic but apparently it doesn't have nearly the same levels of flame retardant contamination as other plastics. The major study the article is based on, From e-waste to living space: Flame retardants contaminating household items add to concern about plastic recycling, even talks about that distinction specifically, but the article doesn't bother to mention that (as is typical for science reporting) :
3.3. Variation in FR detection by polymer type
Analysis for polymer type using FTIR of the 20 products that screened >50 ppm Br found that ABS and HIPS/PS were the dominant polymers (Fig. 2). ABS and HIPS/PS were found in 12 samples (60%), followed by polypropylene in 4 samples (20%). Less frequently detected polymers included poly(propylene:ethylene) (10%) and polyamide nylon (10%). Among these polymers, ABS and HIPS/PS are most associated with electronics (PINFA, 2017), and 11 out of 12 products identified as either ABS or HIPS/PS contained ∑FRs >310 mg/kg. Total FR content in ABS ranged from 310 to 8150 mg/kg, and from ND–22,800 mg/kg in HIPS/PS, which included the three products with the highest FR concentrations (all over 15,000 mg/kg).
Total FR levels in polymers more typically used in electronics (ABS and HIPS/PS) were compared with levels in polymers not generally associated with electronics (polypropylene and polyamide/nylon). Total FR levels in ABS and HIPS/PS, with a median of 4600 mg/kg, were significantly higher than those in polypropylene and polyamide/nylon, with a median of 150 mg/kg (p < 0.01) (see Fig. S1 for a visual comparison).
p.s. Taking both studies into account, I am open to suggestions on what to change the title to, to be more accurate and less clickbaity. So if anyone has any ideas for a better title, please let me know and I can change it to that.
Anyone have a suggestion for alternatives for nonstick surfaces? I've use silicone before, but I find it tends to wear away and split until metal is exposed, eventually.
Anyone have a suggestion for alternatives for nonstick surfaces? I've use silicone before, but I find it tends to wear away and split until metal is exposed, eventually.
If we're talking about kitchen utensils, I haven't found the transition to wood utensils to be very difficult. They usually come out of the box with some level of coating so things won't stick...
If we're talking about kitchen utensils, I haven't found the transition to wood utensils to be very difficult.
They usually come out of the box with some level of coating so things won't stick much. Most recipes call for putting some oil in a pan first, and I try to spread the oil with my utensil, giving it a minimal coating.
For long-term maintenance, you can coat them with (food safe) mineral oil every so often.
Denser oilier wood last longer than cheaper. You can coat with most any oil, I've in the past used olive oil and canola oil. Now I use a combo of beeswax and jojoba oil.
Denser oilier wood last longer than cheaper. You can coat with most any oil, I've in the past used olive oil and canola oil. Now I use a combo of beeswax and jojoba oil.
I think it’s worth noting that some oils can go rancid, even if it’s soaked into the wood, and if it soaks in before going bad then I don’t think there’s a way to clean it out again. I’m sure...
I think it’s worth noting that some oils can go rancid, even if it’s soaked into the wood, and if it soaks in before going bad then I don’t think there’s a way to clean it out again.
I’m sure there are some non-mineral oils which are also fine, but food-safe mineral oils is at least a safe enough category that it’s a good starting point for someone without experience of what to look for or what to avoid.
I can't speak to nonstick surfaces on pans and such, but all my kitchen utensils are nylon, which I think are great (way more rigid and thin than silicone ones). It's still a plastic but...
I can't speak to nonstick surfaces on pans and such, but all my kitchen utensils are nylon, which I think are great (way more rigid and thin than silicone ones). It's still a plastic but apparently it doesn't have nearly the same levels of flame retardant contamination as other plastics. The major study the article is based on, From e-waste to living space: Flame retardants contaminating household items add to concern about plastic recycling, even talks about that distinction specifically, but the article doesn't bother to mention that (as is typical for science reporting) :
3.3. Variation in FR detection by polymer type
Analysis for polymer type using FTIR of the 20 products that screened >50 ppm Br found that ABS and HIPS/PS were the dominant polymers (Fig. 2). ABS and HIPS/PS were found in 12 samples (60%), followed by polypropylene in 4 samples (20%). Less frequently detected polymers included poly(propylene:ethylene) (10%) and polyamide nylon (10%). Among these polymers, ABS and HIPS/PS are most associated with electronics (PINFA, 2017), and 11 out of 12 products identified as either ABS or HIPS/PS contained ∑FRs >310 mg/kg. Total FR content in ABS ranged from 310 to 8150 mg/kg, and from ND–22,800 mg/kg in HIPS/PS, which included the three products with the highest FR concentrations (all over 15,000 mg/kg).
Total FR levels in polymers more typically used in electronics (ABS and HIPS/PS) were compared with levels in polymers not generally associated with electronics (polypropylene and polyamide/nylon). Total FR levels in ABS and HIPS/PS, with a median of 4600 mg/kg, were significantly higher than those in polypropylene and polyamide/nylon, with a median of 150 mg/kg (p < 0.01) (see Fig. S1 for a visual comparison).
That's really bothersom they didn't include that information in the article. Cooking utensils should not be made of ABS or PS. The most important factor of any cooking utensils is that they should...
That's really bothersom they didn't include that information in the article.
Cooking utensils should not be made of ABS or PS. The most important factor of plasticany cooking utensils is that they should not melt or burn. High temperatures tend to break apart polymers, and the things that plastics are made from are poisonous to the human body. According to Wikipedia:
ABS is a terpolymer made by polymerizing styrene and acrylonitrile in the presence of polybutadiene.
All three of those are hazardous to human health.
both ABS and PS have lower melting points than PA/nylon, so it makes much more sense to make cooking mutensils out of nylon than it does those other plastics. To my memory, it also has a higher glass transition temperature, which means that it will be less likely to bend or flex at higher temperatures. PA is also not an expensive material, generally speaking, so isn't going to be much more than any other plastic utensil of the same general size and shape.
It is, but at this point I'm sadly used to it. Which is why the very first thing I do whenever I read science articles on major news sites these days is to read the actual study they were based...
That's really bothersom they didn't include that information in the article.
It is, but at this point I'm sadly used to it. Which is why the very first thing I do whenever I read science articles on major news sites these days is to read the actual study they were based on, since 99% of the time the article leaves out important information and strips all nuance from the study's conclusions. Like this article lumping all "black plastic" together when they are anything but.
I'm used to that too. To be honest, I came across this story before I saw it posted here. I quickly skimmed through it, and then continued to completely ignore it. The only reason why I clicked on...
I'm used to that too. To be honest, I came across this story before I saw it posted here. I quickly skimmed through it, and then continued to completely ignore it. The only reason why I clicked on the comments here to begin with was the thought that there might have been something to it if it's big enough to show up here. My rule of thumb in regards to health science articles is to only really start to pay attention to it when there gets to the point where regulatory agencies or major healthcare organizations are looking into it. It's a very imperfect barometer, but it prevents me from worrying about things that are not worth worrying about, and the things that pass that shouldn't are generally not big enough to take a measurable amount of my lifespan.
That's not a bad way to go about it either, and certainly a lot less time consuming than reading every study. :P And funnily enough, the study itself suggested regulation as a solution to the...
That's not a bad way to go about it either, and certainly a lot less time consuming than reading every study. :P And funnily enough, the study itself suggested regulation as a solution to the issue in their Conclusion, and mentioned several places already having regulations in place to help prevent FR contamination from recycled plastics:
Within the last several years, regulatory bodies have begun to respond to concerns about the persistence, toxicity, and bioaccumulation of FRs, specifically organohalogen FRs, including brominated and chlorinated compounds. In 2019, the European Commission banned organohalogen FRs in electronic displays, including TVs and computer monitors (Official Journal of the European Union, 2019a). New York restricted the use of organohalogen FRs in electronic enclosures beginning in January 2024 (The New York State Senate, 2021), and Washington state's ban on the use of organohalogen FRs in enclosures for all indoor electric and electronic products goes into effect starting in 2025 (Washington State Department of Ecology, 2022).
Actually I think if anything my barometer is still not sensitive enough. It's got a whole lot more sensitive a few years ago because I realized that ignoring pretty much everything is part of why...
Actually I think if anything my barometer is still not sensitive enough. It's got a whole lot more sensitive a few years ago because I realized that ignoring pretty much everything is part of why my health was getting so bad. After all, I used to weigh more than a car. So I'm grateful to have people like you who will look in a little deeper to get the nuance the journalists should be providing, but don't.
On a different train of thought, though, I don't think I've ever read a research paper on public heath that didn't recommend regulatory action.
Yeah, and unfortunately just because a major study recommends regulatory action doesn't necessarily mean any agency will actually follow through with that... see: Vox's recent video on Red 3 in US...
Yeah, and unfortunately just because a major study recommends regulatory action doesn't necessarily mean any agency will actually follow through with that... see: Vox's recent video on Red 3 in US food. :/
p.s. Congrats on the weight loss, BTW. I know from experience how fucking hard that is. I used to weigh about 100lbs more than I do now, and I still have a ways to go yet.
And Silicone breaks down at 480F (?). At least that's what the silicone utensil I bought say. But then the only cooking I do at that heat is in cast iron or carbon steel. For those, I use metal...
And Silicone breaks down at 480F (?). At least that's what the silicone utensil I bought say. But then the only cooking I do at that heat is in cast iron or carbon steel. For those, I use metal cooking utensils.
Silicone is very good for high temperature applications. The only problem with them is that they are too floppy for some applications. They aren’t a good choice for fish spatulas, for instance,...
Silicone is very good for high temperature applications. The only problem with them is that they are too floppy for some applications. They aren’t a good choice for fish spatulas, for instance, but it’s a very good choice for something like a spoon or scraper.
Checked what my IKEA black plastic utensils are made of and it's polyamide (if they're telling the truth), which is supposedly safe. I don't use them much because there's no need to add even more...
Checked what my IKEA black plastic utensils are made of and it's polyamide (if they're telling the truth), which is supposedly safe. I don't use them much because there's no need to add even more microplastics to my store bought microplastics, but apparently no need to throw them out.
Just in case it’s not clear, polyamide is PA is nylon. The spatula and spoon that I use most often is from IKEA. It’s pretty decent and shouldn’t be too much of a microplastic problem as long as...
Just in case it’s not clear, polyamide is PA is nylon.
The spatula and spoon that I use most often is from IKEA. It’s pretty decent and shouldn’t be too much of a microplastic problem as long as you don’t leave them in the pan/pot.
Mine are all OXO brand ones (edit: except my fish turner, which is also nylon but Cuisinart). A lot of my kitchen stuff is OXO, since I think they are one of the best brands out there. Not the...
Mine are all OXO brand ones (edit: except my fish turner, which is also nylon but Cuisinart). A lot of my kitchen stuff is OXO, since I think they are one of the best brands out there. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive either, but their design ergonomics are awesome, IMO.
Thank you! A fair bit of my stuff is OXO as well. Definitely agree on the quality and ergonomics. Do you have their Smooth Edge Can Opener? It's such a revelation. The one that they're selling now...
Thank you! A fair bit of my stuff is OXO as well. Definitely agree on the quality and ergonomics. Do you have their Smooth Edge Can Opener? It's such a revelation. The one that they're selling now is slightly different than the one I have, which seems to have been discontinued.
I don't... but I should probably get a new can opener since mine is ancient and getting a tad rusty now. So thanks for the reminder, and recommendation. :P
I don't... but I should probably get a new can opener since mine is ancient and getting a tad rusty now. So thanks for the reminder, and recommendation. :P
Cast iron. If you're unsure how to use it, get cheap IR thermometer and read 190c-200c before you start cooking. Now you're nonstick. Older castiron pans are smoother, new lodge ones require you...
Cast iron. If you're unsure how to use it, get cheap IR thermometer and read 190c-200c before you start cooking. Now you're nonstick.
Older castiron pans are smoother, new lodge ones require you to sand them smooth first. We can't make cast iron to the same tolerances as before.
You don't need to bother sanding. Just keep it seasoned, scape it down with a metal spatula once in a while and it will get smooth eventually. If you really want a smooth cast iron pan fresh out...
You don't need to bother sanding. Just keep it seasoned, scape it down with a metal spatula once in a while and it will get smooth eventually.
If you really want a smooth cast iron pan fresh out of the box, get a smithey or finex. They are spendy though.
Check thrift stores too, sometimes I see some nice old ones there that are easy to treat and make look great. You have to find a thrift store that the parasite re-sellers haven't located and...
Check thrift stores too, sometimes I see some nice old ones there that are easy to treat and make look great.
You have to find a thrift store that the parasite re-sellers haven't located and picked over though. Which is getting way harder to do these days
Curious about the wording here - "can't" as in "it's not as profitable so nobody does it," or "can't" as in "the processes have been lost (like Roman concrete [until recently])?"
We can't make cast iron to the same tolerances as before.
Curious about the wording here - "can't" as in "it's not as profitable so nobody does it," or "can't" as in "the processes have been lost (like Roman concrete [until recently])?"
IIRC it's more of the "won't" kind. There are smooth cast iron pans on the market, but they are very expensive. They are made the same basic way as the rough ones are but then they are sanded down...
IIRC it's more of the "won't" kind. There are smooth cast iron pans on the market, but they are very expensive. They are made the same basic way as the rough ones are but then they are sanded down by hand, which is a very labor intensive process. That's part of why it's more common to see them with enamel surfaces like Le Creucet or Staub does.
Personally speaking I actually like the enamel coated ones a litle better. The white surface makes it a little bit better for seeing when something's burning so you can react to them better.
The former, definitely. The manufacturers that make nice pans cost 2-300 USD. You can (with luck) get an antique that'll clean up as nice as a new 2-300 USD pan for 5usd.
The former, definitely. The manufacturers that make nice pans cost 2-300 USD. You can (with luck) get an antique that'll clean up as nice as a new 2-300 USD pan for 5usd.
I was a always-Taflon person until I moved without any of my belongings and was forced to use cast iron for 3 weeks. There's no going back now I love my cheap cast iron, and food doesn't stick...
I was a always-Taflon person until I moved without any of my belongings and was forced to use cast iron for 3 weeks. There's no going back now I love my cheap cast iron, and food doesn't stick anymore. Cleaning is even easier than T-fals.
The article doesn't talk about nonstick Teflon at all. They are still perfectly safe to use, although there is some discussion to be had about the manufacturing process.
The article doesn't talk about nonstick Teflon at all. They are still perfectly safe to use, although there is some discussion to be had about the manufacturing process.
Teflon is perfectly safe, but only if you use it perfectly and it never gets scratched. When it gets scratched, it will flake off into your food. If you get it too hot, it will leach into your...
Teflon is perfectly safe, but only if you use it perfectly and it never gets scratched. When it gets scratched, it will flake off into your food. If you get it too hot, it will leach into your food. That’s why you have so many people concerned about it. Your stovetop probably doesn’t have an accurate temperature control, and even when you are really careful when cooking to not scratch the surface, most people aren’t great at being so careful when cleaning and storing them.
Why is that a problem? Teflon itself is pretty much inert, so I assume it's residual PFAS from manufacture, but wouldn't that leech into your food even without flaking?
When it gets scratched, it will flake off into your food.
Why is that a problem? Teflon itself is pretty much inert, so I assume it's residual PFAS from manufacture, but wouldn't that leech into your food even without flaking?
Do you have a source for that (I did try a quick google first)? As far as I know, specifically glues are not normally used anywhere in the process of depositing teflon onto a pan, and the issue...
Do you have a source for that (I did try a quick google first)? As far as I know, specifically glues are not normally used anywhere in the process of depositing teflon onto a pan, and the issue with toxic binding agents was PFOA, which is not used anymore.
You are correct, apparently the articles I read a while back (and can't find anymore) were misleading. Modern Teflon application is just more teflon, apparently
You are correct, apparently the articles I read a while back (and can't find anymore) were misleading. Modern Teflon application is just more teflon, apparently
Ha, I meant for utensils. I do have a Lodge cast iron, and it's well loved enough that it can cook eggs, but it tends to get pretty messy when I cook things that are more saucy, and it's a...
Ha, I meant for utensils. I do have a Lodge cast iron, and it's well loved enough that it can cook eggs, but it tends to get pretty messy when I cook things that are more saucy, and it's a nuisance to clean. So my nonstick pans gets more use for things like finishing pasta, and I'll just hope I die of something else before the PFOAs get me.
I'm afraid nothing really competes with nonstick. But if you've made up your mind I'd probably recommend carbon steel which is probably as easy to care for as cast iron, you need to keep it dry...
I'm afraid nothing really competes with nonstick. But if you've made up your mind I'd probably recommend carbon steel which is probably as easy to care for as cast iron, you need to keep it dry and season it.
Though you can cook eggs even in stainless steel, it just requires practice and technique. But proper heating and enough oil I think someone with determination can easily achieve that (I'll be sticking to my nonstick when it comes to eggs though).
I would recommend Green Pan if going down that route. they're fairly cheap and in my personal experience it actually works better than teflon in oil-free cooking. Other more rigorous testing show...
I would recommend Green Pan if going down that route. they're fairly cheap and in my personal experience it actually works better than teflon in oil-free cooking. Other more rigorous testing show that it's about on par with teflon, assumingly because their tests usually involve oil or animal fats.
I use a small carbon steel pan for my eggs nearly every morning. Had some sticking issues for the first week while I got used to it, but once it was properly seasoned eggs now slide on them with a...
I use a small carbon steel pan for my eggs nearly every morning. Had some sticking issues for the first week while I got used to it, but once it was properly seasoned eggs now slide on them with a bit of butter every time.
Yeah, carbon steel (or cast iron, which has many similar properties) isn't anywhere close to as effortlessly nonstick as Teflon, even when seasoned, but it's worlds better than stainless steel, at...
Yeah, carbon steel (or cast iron, which has many similar properties) isn't anywhere close to as effortlessly nonstick as Teflon, even when seasoned, but it's worlds better than stainless steel, at least for delicate things like eggs. I love my stainless steel pans, but I'd only use them for eggs as a last resort or a punishment.
Others have already mentioned each of these, but I'll chip in as well. Cast Iron for the skillet. Season it properly (which is just washing / drying / oiling all the surface area / baking for a...
Others have already mentioned each of these, but I'll chip in as well.
Cast Iron for the skillet. Season it properly (which is just washing / drying / oiling all the surface area / baking for a while at a certain temperature to harden the oil layer (with the skillet upside down) and you're all set. Lasts forever. You can abuse it, it can get rusted if abused badly (stripped of oil and left wet for very long periods) - but you can still fix it even then. You can wash it normally with soap and water when you need to (it may wear away at the seasoning layer, but you can re-apply that whenever). The cast iron is porous, so the best way to be sure you've dried it fully is just to put it on the stove on low heat for a bit and get evaporation to purge the water.
Bamboo cooking utensils. Bamboo is cheap and highly renewable, fairly durable, and you can wash / scrub / dry it as normal. Stuff can get stuck to it a bit, so you might need an abrasive scrub pad sometimes, but it has been fine for me.
Stainless steel is my preference; you just have to learn how to use it as a non-stick pan. We use that or cast iron pretty much exclusively. Most of our utensils are metal or wood.
Stainless steel is my preference; you just have to learn how to use it as a non-stick pan.
Basic technique is to let it warm up so that when you splash droplets of water on it, they bead up and roll, not sizzle. This indicates that the surface of the pan is smooth and ready to cook...
Basic technique is to let it warm up so that when you splash droplets of water on it, they bead up and roll, not sizzle. This indicates that the surface of the pan is smooth and ready to cook with.
After that, when you put proteins on the pan, you should wait for them to cook enough that they unstick themselves from the pan. A lot of times, overly high heat and rushing is what messes up cooking.
Not the person you replied to, but I cooked in a commercial kitchen for a while. Lots of stuff will stick to stainless no matter what you do (looking at you, garlic!) but if you use reasonable...
Not the person you replied to, but I cooked in a commercial kitchen for a while. Lots of stuff will stick to stainless no matter what you do (looking at you, garlic!) but if you use reasonable heat and some oil then plenty of things won't stick in a way that's problematic.
My go-to for cooking most things that might stick is cast iron. It's a little hefty, but once you season them they're very nonstick and definitely devoid of weird chemicals. They also help with nice even heat distribution.
A lot of people recommend cast iron and for good reason, but if the maintenance is too much of a hassle for you I'd recommend looking into carbon steel cookware. Extremely common in woks but you...
A lot of people recommend cast iron and for good reason, but if the maintenance is too much of a hassle for you I'd recommend looking into carbon steel cookware. Extremely common in woks but you can find skillets made with it also; it's basically halfway between a cast iron and a stainless steel pan, being reasonably light and durable, and much less of a hassle to cook with then cast iron (though honestly I have never bothered babying my cast iron, I just cook with it and dry it well afterwards and call it a day). There is a seasoning process but it's much less involved than with cast iron: The first time using it you just heat it up a ton and then rub oil into it with a paper towel until the whole thing's changed colour, takes 10 minutes. After that just be sure to preheat it until smoking, rub a really small amount of oil on it before throwing your food in, and it'll be fine. Dry it well to prevent rust.
As for cooking utensils I almost exclusively use wooden utensils and have never had issues. I really don't get the hype around metal utensils being better or having more control, if you can't scrape off fond with a wooden spoon then you've already screwed up. I have a silicon spatula for anything more delicate, and that's basically it.
What exactly are you thinking about when you say "surfaces"? Never had issues with silicone utensils, not sure I'd want a silicone pan or tray though. Silicone is soft and absorbs oils when hot,...
What exactly are you thinking about when you say "surfaces"?
Never had issues with silicone utensils, not sure I'd want a silicone pan or tray though. Silicone is soft and absorbs oils when hot, so it's not perfect for sure. I have a set of wood handled ones without any metal in them that seem to hold up just fine. Though I'm not rough with them. I keep a set of bamboo utensils for rougher things like stir fry. Bamboo is nonporous (bacteria resistant) plus water and heat resistant. Though like any wood you need to oil it to prevent cracking.
You could use metal and season it the same you would do for cast iron. Should work for anything made of metal, even utensils as long as they can be safely heated enough to bond the oil to the metal. Has the same issues with maintenance as cast iron though.
Stainless steel pans are nonstick as long as you heat them up enough to bead water before cooking and use enough oil.
Porcelain enamel pots/pans are great. They're naturally nonstick. It's why sinks, toilets and bathtubs are often lined or made of it. They are a little heavier than regular pans, but not as heavy as cast iron.
Ah, wood and silicone I think are the only alternatives to plastic that won't scratch nonstick pans. A combination works best imo. Scrappers and flippers are best when made of silicone since wood...
Ah, wood and silicone I think are the only alternatives to plastic that won't scratch nonstick pans.
A combination works best imo. Scrappers and flippers are best when made of silicone since wood isn't the best at sliding under/over things. I find wood works best for stirring/mixing. This I think is the same bamboo set I have and this is the silicone set I have along with a good grips large flipper I use for pancakes (really like that one).
From the linked study (2018) on transfer of BFRs to hot cooking oil.
Based on this data it seems like BFRs are largely phased out as of a decade ago. The three post-2011 utensils with detectable Br had at most 8 ppm (3 ppm detection limit). They only selected samples with more than 100 ppm bromine for GCMS analysis. Some of those GCMS samples were below detection limit for basically all BFRs, so all the utensils purchased after 2011 could be considered to be very low in BFRs.
So I guess the title really should be "Throw out your black plastic spatula if it's over 13 years old".
My comment about the other (much more recent) major study this article is based on is a reply to another unrelated comment, and is easy to miss. So it's probably worth copying it here too since that study also makes some important distinctions that the article completely fails to mention:
p.s. Taking both studies into account, I am open to suggestions on what to change the title to, to be more accurate and less clickbaity. So if anyone has any ideas for a better title, please let me know and I can change it to that.
Mirror: https://archive.is/vxfA1
Anyone have a suggestion for alternatives for nonstick surfaces? I've use silicone before, but I find it tends to wear away and split until metal is exposed, eventually.
If we're talking about kitchen utensils, I haven't found the transition to wood utensils to be very difficult.
They usually come out of the box with some level of coating so things won't stick much. Most recipes call for putting some oil in a pan first, and I try to spread the oil with my utensil, giving it a minimal coating.
For long-term maintenance, you can coat them with (food safe) mineral oil every so often.
Denser oilier wood last longer than cheaper. You can coat with most any oil, I've in the past used olive oil and canola oil. Now I use a combo of beeswax and jojoba oil.
I think it’s worth noting that some oils can go rancid, even if it’s soaked into the wood, and if it soaks in before going bad then I don’t think there’s a way to clean it out again.
I’m sure there are some non-mineral oils which are also fine, but food-safe mineral oils is at least a safe enough category that it’s a good starting point for someone without experience of what to look for or what to avoid.
I can't speak to nonstick surfaces on pans and such, but all my kitchen utensils are nylon, which I think are great (way more rigid and thin than silicone ones). It's still a plastic but apparently it doesn't have nearly the same levels of flame retardant contamination as other plastics. The major study the article is based on, From e-waste to living space: Flame retardants contaminating household items add to concern about plastic recycling, even talks about that distinction specifically, but the article doesn't bother to mention that (as is typical for science reporting) :
That's really bothersom they didn't include that information in the article.
Cooking utensils should not be made of ABS or PS. The most important factor of
plasticany cooking utensils is that they should not melt or burn. High temperatures tend to break apart polymers, and the things that plastics are made from are poisonous to the human body. According to Wikipedia:All three of those are hazardous to human health.
both ABS and PS have lower melting points than PA/nylon, so it makes much more sense to make cooking mutensils out of nylon than it does those other plastics. To my memory, it also has a higher glass transition temperature, which means that it will be less likely to bend or flex at higher temperatures. PA is also not an expensive material, generally speaking, so isn't going to be much more than any other plastic utensil of the same general size and shape.
It is, but at this point I'm sadly used to it. Which is why the very first thing I do whenever I read science articles on major news sites these days is to read the actual study they were based on, since 99% of the time the article leaves out important information and strips all nuance from the study's conclusions. Like this article lumping all "black plastic" together when they are anything but.
I'm used to that too. To be honest, I came across this story before I saw it posted here. I quickly skimmed through it, and then continued to completely ignore it. The only reason why I clicked on the comments here to begin with was the thought that there might have been something to it if it's big enough to show up here. My rule of thumb in regards to health science articles is to only really start to pay attention to it when there gets to the point where regulatory agencies or major healthcare organizations are looking into it. It's a very imperfect barometer, but it prevents me from worrying about things that are not worth worrying about, and the things that pass that shouldn't are generally not big enough to take a measurable amount of my lifespan.
That's not a bad way to go about it either, and certainly a lot less time consuming than reading every study. :P And funnily enough, the study itself suggested regulation as a solution to the issue in their Conclusion, and mentioned several places already having regulations in place to help prevent FR contamination from recycled plastics:
Actually I think if anything my barometer is still not sensitive enough. It's got a whole lot more sensitive a few years ago because I realized that ignoring pretty much everything is part of why my health was getting so bad. After all, I used to weigh more than a car. So I'm grateful to have people like you who will look in a little deeper to get the nuance the journalists should be providing, but don't.
On a different train of thought, though, I don't think I've ever read a research paper on public heath that didn't recommend regulatory action.
Yeah, and unfortunately just because a major study recommends regulatory action doesn't necessarily mean any agency will actually follow through with that... see: Vox's recent video on Red 3 in US food. :/
p.s. Congrats on the weight loss, BTW. I know from experience how fucking hard that is. I used to weigh about 100lbs more than I do now, and I still have a ways to go yet.
And Silicone breaks down at 480F (?). At least that's what the silicone utensil I bought say. But then the only cooking I do at that heat is in cast iron or carbon steel. For those, I use metal cooking utensils.
Silicone is very good for high temperature applications. The only problem with them is that they are too floppy for some applications. They aren’t a good choice for fish spatulas, for instance, but it’s a very good choice for something like a spoon or scraper.
Checked what my IKEA black plastic utensils are made of and it's polyamide (if they're telling the truth), which is supposedly safe. I don't use them much because there's no need to add even more microplastics to my store bought microplastics, but apparently no need to throw them out.
Just in case it’s not clear, polyamide is PA is nylon.
The spatula and spoon that I use most often is from IKEA. It’s pretty decent and shouldn’t be too much of a microplastic problem as long as you don’t leave them in the pan/pot.
Do you know what kind of nylon utensils you have? Or can you say how you know they are nylon? Trying to figure out what to shop for.
Mine are all OXO brand ones (edit: except my fish turner, which is also nylon but Cuisinart). A lot of my kitchen stuff is OXO, since I think they are one of the best brands out there. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive either, but their design ergonomics are awesome, IMO.
Thank you! A fair bit of my stuff is OXO as well. Definitely agree on the quality and ergonomics. Do you have their Smooth Edge Can Opener? It's such a revelation. The one that they're selling now is slightly different than the one I have, which seems to have been discontinued.
I don't... but I should probably get a new can opener since mine is ancient and getting a tad rusty now. So thanks for the reminder, and recommendation. :P
Cast iron. If you're unsure how to use it, get cheap IR thermometer and read 190c-200c before you start cooking. Now you're nonstick.
Older castiron pans are smoother, new lodge ones require you to sand them smooth first. We can't make cast iron to the same tolerances as before.
You don't need to bother sanding. Just keep it seasoned, scape it down with a metal spatula once in a while and it will get smooth eventually.
If you really want a smooth cast iron pan fresh out of the box, get a smithey or finex. They are spendy though.
Check thrift stores too, sometimes I see some nice old ones there that are easy to treat and make look great.
You have to find a thrift store that the parasite re-sellers haven't located and picked over though. Which is getting way harder to do these days
Curious about the wording here - "can't" as in "it's not as profitable so nobody does it," or "can't" as in "the processes have been lost (like Roman concrete [until recently])?"
IIRC it's more of the "won't" kind. There are smooth cast iron pans on the market, but they are very expensive. They are made the same basic way as the rough ones are but then they are sanded down by hand, which is a very labor intensive process. That's part of why it's more common to see them with enamel surfaces like Le Creucet or Staub does.
Personally speaking I actually like the enamel coated ones a litle better. The white surface makes it a little bit better for seeing when something's burning so you can react to them better.
The former, definitely. The manufacturers that make nice pans cost 2-300 USD. You can (with luck) get an antique that'll clean up as nice as a new 2-300 USD pan for 5usd.
I was a always-Taflon person until I moved without any of my belongings and was forced to use cast iron for 3 weeks. There's no going back now I love my cheap cast iron, and food doesn't stick anymore. Cleaning is even easier than T-fals.
The article doesn't talk about nonstick Teflon at all. They are still perfectly safe to use, although there is some discussion to be had about the manufacturing process.
Teflon is perfectly safe, but only if you use it perfectly and it never gets scratched. When it gets scratched, it will flake off into your food. If you get it too hot, it will leach into your food. That’s why you have so many people concerned about it. Your stovetop probably doesn’t have an accurate temperature control, and even when you are really careful when cooking to not scratch the surface, most people aren’t great at being so careful when cleaning and storing them.
Why is that a problem? Teflon itself is pretty much inert, so I assume it's residual PFAS from manufacture, but wouldn't that leech into your food even without flaking?
It's the glues used to stick the Teflon layer to the pan, not the inert Teflon itself.
Do you have a source for that (I did try a quick google first)? As far as I know, specifically glues are not normally used anywhere in the process of depositing teflon onto a pan, and the issue with toxic binding agents was PFOA, which is not used anymore.
You are correct, apparently the articles I read a while back (and can't find anymore) were misleading. Modern Teflon application is just more teflon, apparently
Ha, I meant for utensils. I do have a Lodge cast iron, and it's well loved enough that it can cook eggs, but it tends to get pretty messy when I cook things that are more saucy, and it's a nuisance to clean. So my nonstick pans gets more use for things like finishing pasta, and I'll just hope I die of something else before the PFOAs get me.
I'm afraid nothing really competes with nonstick. But if you've made up your mind I'd probably recommend carbon steel which is probably as easy to care for as cast iron, you need to keep it dry and season it.
Though you can cook eggs even in stainless steel, it just requires practice and technique. But proper heating and enough oil I think someone with determination can easily achieve that (I'll be sticking to my nonstick when it comes to eggs though).
Ceramic pans are your best bet, though hardly perfect as the link notes.
I would recommend Green Pan if going down that route. they're fairly cheap and in my personal experience it actually works better than teflon in oil-free cooking. Other more rigorous testing show that it's about on par with teflon, assumingly because their tests usually involve oil or animal fats.
Or depending on what you're cooking, maybe just let it stick to give it better flavor.
I use a small carbon steel pan for my eggs nearly every morning. Had some sticking issues for the first week while I got used to it, but once it was properly seasoned eggs now slide on them with a bit of butter every time.
Yeah, carbon steel (or cast iron, which has many similar properties) isn't anywhere close to as effortlessly nonstick as Teflon, even when seasoned, but it's worlds better than stainless steel, at least for delicate things like eggs. I love my stainless steel pans, but I'd only use them for eggs as a last resort or a punishment.
Others have already mentioned each of these, but I'll chip in as well.
Cast Iron for the skillet. Season it properly (which is just washing / drying / oiling all the surface area / baking for a while at a certain temperature to harden the oil layer (with the skillet upside down) and you're all set. Lasts forever. You can abuse it, it can get rusted if abused badly (stripped of oil and left wet for very long periods) - but you can still fix it even then. You can wash it normally with soap and water when you need to (it may wear away at the seasoning layer, but you can re-apply that whenever). The cast iron is porous, so the best way to be sure you've dried it fully is just to put it on the stove on low heat for a bit and get evaporation to purge the water.
Bamboo cooking utensils. Bamboo is cheap and highly renewable, fairly durable, and you can wash / scrub / dry it as normal. Stuff can get stuck to it a bit, so you might need an abrasive scrub pad sometimes, but it has been fine for me.
To prevent one lowest spot from getting any 'pool' of oil and causing a small gummy area instead of an even, thin layer.
thx!
Stainless steel is my preference; you just have to learn how to use it as a non-stick pan.
We use that or cast iron pretty much exclusively.
Most of our utensils are metal or wood.
Any tips for not sticking with stainless steel?
Basic technique is to let it warm up so that when you splash droplets of water on it, they bead up and roll, not sizzle. This indicates that the surface of the pan is smooth and ready to cook with.
After that, when you put proteins on the pan, you should wait for them to cook enough that they unstick themselves from the pan. A lot of times, overly high heat and rushing is what messes up cooking.
Not the person you replied to, but I cooked in a commercial kitchen for a while. Lots of stuff will stick to stainless no matter what you do (looking at you, garlic!) but if you use reasonable heat and some oil then plenty of things won't stick in a way that's problematic.
My go-to for cooking most things that might stick is cast iron. It's a little hefty, but once you season them they're very nonstick and definitely devoid of weird chemicals. They also help with nice even heat distribution.
A lot of people recommend cast iron and for good reason, but if the maintenance is too much of a hassle for you I'd recommend looking into carbon steel cookware. Extremely common in woks but you can find skillets made with it also; it's basically halfway between a cast iron and a stainless steel pan, being reasonably light and durable, and much less of a hassle to cook with then cast iron (though honestly I have never bothered babying my cast iron, I just cook with it and dry it well afterwards and call it a day). There is a seasoning process but it's much less involved than with cast iron: The first time using it you just heat it up a ton and then rub oil into it with a paper towel until the whole thing's changed colour, takes 10 minutes. After that just be sure to preheat it until smoking, rub a really small amount of oil on it before throwing your food in, and it'll be fine. Dry it well to prevent rust.
As for cooking utensils I almost exclusively use wooden utensils and have never had issues. I really don't get the hype around metal utensils being better or having more control, if you can't scrape off fond with a wooden spoon then you've already screwed up. I have a silicon spatula for anything more delicate, and that's basically it.
What exactly are you thinking about when you say "surfaces"?
Never had issues with silicone utensils, not sure I'd want a silicone pan or tray though. Silicone is soft and absorbs oils when hot, so it's not perfect for sure. I have a set of wood handled ones without any metal in them that seem to hold up just fine. Though I'm not rough with them. I keep a set of bamboo utensils for rougher things like stir fry. Bamboo is nonporous (bacteria resistant) plus water and heat resistant. Though like any wood you need to oil it to prevent cracking.
You could use metal and season it the same you would do for cast iron. Should work for anything made of metal, even utensils as long as they can be safely heated enough to bond the oil to the metal. Has the same issues with maintenance as cast iron though.
Stainless steel pans are nonstick as long as you heat them up enough to bead water before cooking and use enough oil.
Porcelain enamel pots/pans are great. They're naturally nonstick. It's why sinks, toilets and bathtubs are often lined or made of it. They are a little heavier than regular pans, but not as heavy as cast iron.
I wrote (apparently) poorly. I intended to ask for alternate materials to look for to use on my nonstick pans.
Ah, wood and silicone I think are the only alternatives to plastic that won't scratch nonstick pans.
A combination works best imo. Scrappers and flippers are best when made of silicone since wood isn't the best at sliding under/over things. I find wood works best for stirring/mixing. This I think is the same bamboo set I have and this is the silicone set I have along with a good grips large flipper I use for pancakes (really like that one).
Thanks for the post. I need to add something to an order to get free shipping. Time to replace my rubber spatula and ladle.