Thoughts on friendships after marriage & setting appropriate expectations

How long has it been since your friend got married? I think getting wrapped up inyour relationship is common enough when you move to a new stage in your life like that, but obviously it lingering for a while after that changes the calculus there.

Ftr, you don't come off as entitled to me in this post. I don't think I have much good advice for you unfortunately, but you come off as perfectly reasonable to me.

If you'll indulge me for a moment, and please don't take this as a criticism of you or your decisions - but rather, as a perspective you may not have considered. This statement jumped out at me, because it rankled me a bit (emphasis mine):

my wedding took place in another country, and I know none of my friends could afford to, or would not want to, travel just for a ceremony, so I didn't really invite anyone

I understand that your wedding took place in a location that made it prohibitively expensive and/or time-consuming for people to attend. But to some extent, the way you framed it ... you made that decision for other people, including your close friend, for whom you'd drive out at all hours to spend time with. It is entirely possible that they took it as a slight that you didn't even consider inviting them.

For my part, I value being invited to events, even if I can't actually make it. To me, it means that I am included, that those whom invited me value my presence in their life. I value the invitation even if the expectation is that I would be unable to attend, because at least it becomes my choice.

All of that said ...

I'm in my 40s now. The nature of what friendship looks like to me has changed, even since my 30s. Friendship used to take the form of afternoons spent playing videogames on the couch, or jumping in the car to get up to some good-natured mischief. Then, as I grew out of high school and into college, it became going to parties and training in martial arts together.

After college, when me and many of my friends went our separate ways in the world, it became online gaming together. It became phone calls and text messages too. It became visits to other cities, when able, to spend time together. Over time, those things became less frequent - friends got married, they had kids, their careers developed to the point that they had little free time.

Now, in my 40s, I don't have a lot of close friends that live locally. Part of that is because of the person I am/have become, and a big part of that is because of a life juggling two small children, a wife, a decades-long career, and a dog. I do not spend time with my friends the way I used to - and they cannot spend time with me (or others) the same way either. One of my dearest friends lives a few hours away, and we hardly see each other except for rare opportunities. Even then, we still text each other.

From everything you've said, you're still in the early years of marriage, and your friend just got married themselves. You've both got a lot of time-juggling to attend to. I imagine the pressure is now on you and your spouse to have kids; your friend may be feeling the same pressure despite the early stage of their marriage. This is all on top of having busy jobs/careers too, along with other responsibilities. You're not getting any younger, and neither are your parents or the rest of your family - with aging comes even more responsibilities to attend to on that front.

There's a lot of things that are certainly demanding time of you and your friend alike. It can be easy to feel slighted when communication isn't as snappy as it used to be; I would give your friend (and yourself) some grace on that front. If they don't reply as quickly or as thoroughly as they used to, it might not be because they don't value your friendship - it might be because they've already got a lot going on.

Distilling complex issues only from text is always fraught with error, so if I end up being full of shit, feel free to ignore me.

Mostly in university, had a couple of really good friends (or so I thought), as soon as they get a girlfriend, most of them forget I even exist.

I don't think this is particularly normal. I think all of us have had this happen with a friend or two, but it certainly shouldn't be the norm.

It made me wonder - do you think it's at all possible that you were taking the place of a girlfriend for these guys, emotionally?

You put a lot of emphasis on the deep emotional connection as well as how much you were there for them:

[He] would share some of his more inner thoughts with me rather than [his girlfriend]

I would try and visit him as often as I can just to hang out at night, or to see how he's doing. I've even driven over at midnight just to hangout with him until 4 AM because he was feeling lonely.

It's difficult because there is nothing wrong with being present for guy friends. That's not what I'm trying to convey. It's only because you're saying that most of your guy friends vanish after they start seeing someone that makes me think you might've been ending up in the "intimate partner" emotional space accidentally. Did you find that almost every time you hung out was an emotional affair with a lot of discussion about feelings, etc? Did you ever simply have fun?

Good advice from an acquaintance of mine: Friendships are like the sea. Sometimes the tide is in, and sometimes the tide is out. The fact that you don't see them much right now doesn't mean the friendship is over. Things evolve, and it's okay to let them be.

All of that said... I'm sorry you're going through this. I can empathize. I recently noticed that I was always the initiator for a group I hang out with, and that they seemed fairly... indifferent when we did hang out? I stopped initiating and the get togethers stopped happening. I've decided to put my energy elsewhere, but of course it still stings.

What does everyone on here think about relationships with their friends when you're married?

For me, relationships with my friends aren't impacted by the fact that I'm married.

My husband and I tend to share friends (just seems to happen naturally as we get to know them while they're around our spouse,) and we tend to develop relationships with our friends' partners as well. When people date or marry in our friend group, it generally just seems to add to the little community we have around us. I am lucky to have had no problems getting along with any of our friends' partners, as they tend to either have great taste in partners (or simply not date people for very long or often.) We have married friends, dating friends, and single friends, and I wouldn't say any of the friendships are different from one another based on their relationship status.

If anything, our friendships with solid married couples are little less ...intimate, maybe? Because we tend to hang out 2x2 rather than any of us getting together 1x1.

Have you met this friend's new wife? If not, and you'd like to continue a relationship with your friend, maybe consider communicate your interest in meeting her. When people are moving into new phases of life, it can be good to communicate your interest in that phase of their life.

I'm not sure what's going on with your friend, of course, but if I were in your position and wanted to give the friendship more chances, I'd lean in that direction and try not to make assumptions about the wife or what role she may have played in the friendship becoming distant.

If he doesn't respond, or continues to be standoffish, the friendship may have finished its course. Which is sad, but also a very normal part of life. The feeling of awkwardness passes with time. To me, the most important thing it to give it a decent chance before giving up, so at least you know you tried and it wasn't just caused by miscommunications/assumptions. (I am not accusing you of making assumptions, just mentioning that since a lot of friendships seem to fade due to assumptions that one or both people don't want to continue it. Many of us don't communicate with our friends as much as we could.)

Yeah, this is something that I empathize with a lot. I have two friends that have been in my life since I was kid (also in my thirties now). We went to school, played sports, all went to separate colleges but still played video games online over the weekend, and got together once a year for occasions. But things started fracturing for us after we all wrapped up with university.

Friend A - very similar to your friend. I was there for him during times of need and we life advice between each other for years. We stayed up many nights playing video games until like 2-3 AM. But he started a job and got a new friend group, and then things started changing. He eventually married someone from that friend group and had a kid. I didn't know he got married until two months after when he finally told me for whatever reason. I couldn't make it to his baby shower, so instead of buying airline tickets and hotel, I bought the most expensive thing on his list. Not even a thank you was sent for that. Just last year I put together one last friend group meeting on his birthday and paid for his flight and a lot of the activities. Not even a thank you again. Sometimes he will text us and say he misses us, but when talks to us he doesn't even ask about us or out lives. He doesn't even know I am married now. After his birthday, I just decided to pull back everything and stop putting effort into the relationship.

Friend B - probably my longest and best friend. Doesn't call, doesn't text, and won't initiate any conversation. He has never travelled to any of the places I have lived or taken me up on any offers to come and visit with all travel expenses coming from me. He works six days a week so I don't really hold it against him. I was planning to buy a house near where he was living but ultimately, I just felt I should do what is best for me and do my own thing.

My dad said something that resonated with me prior to deciding to pull back, "It sounds like they don't love you the way that you love them."

And that is true. I put a lot of work into the relationships and did my best to keep them glued together. If they want to talk to me, I will always be available. I'm a phone call away with an open door for them and their family anytime. I just have to move on and forge my own path, making it what I want instead of lamenting what it could have been.

One thing that's really helped me cultivate kindness for friends that no longer have time for me is to start viewing friendships as seasons. Relationships will wax and wane, sometimes dissapearing for months before coming back for a short stint. Some relationships that were once really good will just slowly fade away, their season being over - it was just time for it to end. Though there are still those friendships which will endure and not waver, I no longer begrudge those friends whose time to move on has come. This viewpoint has really softened the blow with a couple of lifelong friends who I just know won't ever really be there in the same capacity that they were before, we live on different continents now and they're in a different stage of life with kids.

I am really dismayed by all the people here giving support to the notion that having a new SO, spouse, or even child, means that it's expected or even acceptible that you will never see those people again. It's not and that very idea is a negative construct of our society. Anecdotally, I know many couples who still manage to socialize even with children. Taking turns going out, integrating their whole family into celebrations and get togethers, or even having a sitter to get some time for themselves. Couples who have trouble maintaining any semblance of a social life, even as parents, are falling victim to needlessy overcomplications of modern society. Mostly this means that they are very lacking in quality time, in a variety of senses. Electronic distractions and endless consumption can make people feel like they don't have a lot of spare time and can also disrupt restful periods needed to recharge. Research also shows that in the case of parenting, quality of time is much better than quantity of time. Despite modern predeliction to helicopter parenting, it's okay to step away to live your life and expect that your children will not be worse of from it. In fact, children may be better off with quality time with parents who are rested and socially recharged. I've found that in my own personal life something as simple as putting my phone away when I get home and concentrating on hobbies, rest, and face-to-face personal connections has greatly improved my quality of life and decreased my stress levels - my never ending sense of being overly burdened and burnt out quickly evaporated as I started giving myself quality time and that allowed me to give others quality time with myself. I was nevergiving people the best version of me as long as I was a ball of stress and tired from a poor night's sleep.

Now it would be pretty difficult to convince your vanishing friends to disengage from technology, step back from their children, and give more focus to themselves and their own well being and that being rested and fulfilled allows us to give the best of ourselves to others. Difficult but not impossible, it may be worth a try if they're the type of friends open to these kinds of conversations and willing to try something different in their lives. Otherwise, it's not a lost cause. There are in fact people who recognize everything I've said above and manage to remain social despite life changes, challenging schedules, and the task of even raising multiple children. Find those people and cultivate a community of people willing to celebrate that community routinely and openly and also, hopefully, a community who are willing to be their with each other to help pick up the slack of each other's lives in one way or another in order that everyone in that community has a moment to breath and live.

I've seen the type of people who cultivate communities and quality time and they always have a few traits in common: they value human connection, they tend to be (but not always are) less consumerist (more money, less stress, less trips to stores), and use technology and especially social media less than most. They also usually have an air of intentionality probably because they actively reflect on life and are more sure about what they want from it. Again, these are all things afforded by giving ourselves quality time.

I'm so sorry for what you've gone through with your friends, I've been there mself. It's not easy and despite what society tells us, the death of a close friendship can be painful like the end of a romantic partnership or the death of a loved one. Please try to be charitible with your friend, most likely there is no spite from his side it's just the season of that friendship moving on. Take this as a learning lesson of what you want and need from friendship and try to find friends who are more likely to stick with you through thick an thin. I know that's not at all easy as adults in the modern age but if you find the right people who give themselves enough quality time, they will be ready and able to give you time as well

Most people are busy, far too busy to think about setting up social events when they have a million things they need to do. It is a symptom of our society which places too much emphasis on work and consumerism, leaving too little time to oneself and relaxation. I know that I have two days off, meaning all the things I want to do or accomplish are restricted to those days (fix the car, exercise, be creative, be an engaged parent, etc.).

My only advice is this: I can't recall the term, but it was essentially being the "friend sherpa". If you feel like you're lacking socialisation from your friends, be the "sherpa", carry the communication burden and reach out. Organise a hang out, with objective times and dates - nothing ambiguous. Shoulder that responsibility and see how much more social your group may be. If you find they can't, or won't, reciprocate, then decide if its worthwhile continuing to be the organiser. Think about how busy you are, and understand that they are the same, and are not doing this to spite you. Just as you are not avoiding reaching out to others in spite of them.

Having recently gone through a separation, it is so so important to maintain friendships. Couples tend to start amalgamating friends (hence the disappearing friends), and then when there is a separation, they tend to choose a side. You need to have some support networks, and the best way is to begin reaching out.

I don't have any advice but wanted to say that I share your experiences, I've not gone through some of the things that you have but some themes you brought up I've noticed in my own life.
Now the main problem I've found is, it's really hard to make friends at my age. It often feels like no matter what you do, you'll always end up putting more effort than you had to previously for the same or less benefit. All that said, wanna be friends?

Just jumping in to say that be careful of thinking people are selfish because it's human nature to be selfish. It is not.

Being selfish is a product of our society. It is a two way street. There is no such thing as human nature.

That said, I am recently married and living in another city 2h away from my hometown. Luckily my friends are the same friends I grew up with since I was 8 years old or less (we are all almost 40 now). So once or twice every month I'm back to visit my parents and we all hang out to drink and chat.

In my current city my only friends are my dogs and wife. It's funny because she is more shy and introverted than I, but she made friends at work and sometimes we go out with them. She even traveled together with her work friend.

I think woman have an easier time making friends because they tend to open up and bond more easily.