This is what I really detest about technology, the industry I begrudgingly work in. It's absolutely packed to the brim with people that think that because they know javascript better than...
Exemplary
This is what I really detest about technology, the industry I begrudgingly work in.
It's absolutely packed to the brim with people that think that because they know javascript better than 99.99999% of the population, that extends to their competence at everything. Political science, farming, automobiles, manufacturing, race relations, journalism, you name it. There's a certain breed of tech bros that assume that because most people think python is hard, and they're good at it, that must extrapolate to everything else actually being easy, and the only reason we haven't solved every other problem is because all of the super smart geniuses are too busy making face filters for instagram or whatever. They assume they can just hop into an industry and "disrupt" it because they know so much better than the people who have spent their entire lives doing those things.
The fact is that most fields are hard. The reason they have unsolved problems are because those problems are hard, not because the people working in them aren't talented. There's nothing special about programming that makes it particularly difficult. Traffic engineering, solving income inequality, environmental science, accounting, you name it are all equally difficult and require just as much talent in order to solve the issues involved with them.
The main difference is that while most plumbers will freely admit that they're in way over their heads when it comes to say; psychology, this breed of tech bro will, without knowing the first thing about the field, immediately think "The people doing this work are just idiots unlike me. Let me apply technology to this and I'll have all the major issues solved within a year".
There is this huge pedantic energy amongst programmers, and as a programmer it is more painful to have conversations with other programmers than "everyday" folk, who can recognize the limits of...
There is this huge pedantic energy amongst programmers, and as a programmer it is more painful to have conversations with other programmers than "everyday" folk, who can recognize the limits of their knowledge.
Even talking to other programmers about programming can be incredibly frustrating. Some of us apparently just can't conceive of ever being wrong or knowing less than another person.
Even talking to other programmers about programming can be incredibly frustrating. Some of us apparently just can't conceive of ever being wrong or knowing less than another person.
Then you’ve got middle-agers like me who are so painfully aware of the Dunning–Kruger effect and riddled with imposter syndrome that we plateau and are suddenly unable to meaningfully progress in...
Then you’ve got middle-agers like me who are so painfully aware of the Dunning–Kruger effect and riddled with imposter syndrome that we plateau and are suddenly unable to meaningfully progress in our tech careers while the 19yo “10x programmers” code circles around us for half the pay.
Sorry for the angst, didn’t mean to suck you all into my midlife crisis. But I think there is some kind of flywheel effect at play here, where this industry rewards “that type” of person and casts aside folks like me.
What kind of person are you? I don’t think you need to view everything in terms of Dunning-Kruger. I have needed to learn a lot of new stuff at my new job. Every time I thought it would be easier...
What kind of person are you?
I don’t think you need to view everything in terms of Dunning-Kruger. I have needed to learn a lot of new stuff at my new job. Every time I thought it would be easier than it ended up being. But I still managed to make things work. You can view that negatively - or you can accept that it’s just how most people approach new things. As long as you actually end up learning the skills who gives a damn how over-confident you were at the beginning?
Imposter syndrome also gets solved by doing things. Maybe you’re not a “real” engineer, dev-ops, manager, whatever. But if you can do the work of one then anyone who questions your credentials can get fucked.
Actually I think I understand that. I suspect I “look the part” and may have discounted the privilege that gives me. In a smaller company this could be less of a problem. Even if you are fighting...
Actually I think I understand that. I suspect I “look the part” and may have discounted the privilege that gives me.
In a smaller company this could be less of a problem. Even if you are fighting an uphill battle to prove yourself, the number of people you will need to prove yourself to is limited.
Often times figuring out a solution to the main issue isn't the problem. I'm sure you could pull any random researcher or engineer off the street and they could give you a solution to a problem in...
Traffic engineering, solving income inequality, environmental science, accounting, you name it are all equally difficult and require just as much talent in order to solve the issues involved with them.
Often times figuring out a solution to the main issue isn't the problem. I'm sure you could pull any random researcher or engineer off the street and they could give you a solution to a problem in their industry within minutes. The problem is usually that there are multiple solutions and competing interests in most large-scale issues. The real roadblock is finding a solution that balances everyone's concerns enough to get the buy-in needed to pass. That's not an engineering problem; it's a political one.
Anyone who thinks the solution to problems like this is simple is coming at it from the perspective that dissenting opinion is irrelevant. It's a dictatorial mindset.
There's this weird bottomless insecurity to it all, though. It's like admitting you don't know something is equivalent to saying, "I'm stupid". I've met (and possibly been...) so many...
There's this weird bottomless insecurity to it all, though. It's like admitting you don't know something is equivalent to saying, "I'm stupid".
I've met (and possibly been...) so many over-specialized, over-opinionated people in all kinds of fields - engineering, medicine, sciences, law, who suffer from ultracrepidarianism.
It's as though they've spent their entire lives with only one lens through which to view reality, and anything that's unfocused isn't real or consequential. That purblind focus means that they can opine on any problem, without any idea of the complexities that someone familiar with the subject might spot. Which is why William Shockley thought he understood genetics well enough to justify his preference for racism, or Jordan Peterson's strange synthesis of psychology, sociobiology, and religion, or me writing here (I don't propose to run the government for anyone, and I'm not a billionaire, so peace out).
'''It's absolutely packed to the brim with people that think that because they know javascript better than 99.99999% of the population, that extends to their competence at everything.''' Didn't...
'''It's absolutely packed to the brim with people that think that because they know javascript better than 99.99999% of the population, that extends to their competence at everything.'''
Didn't Socrates (or was it Plato?) call this out as the root of most problems? (Except I think it was carpenters or something in his example).
It really does seem like "failing Social Studies" is a hard requirement for these Silicon Valley types.
for some context, In other words, a staggeringly stupid bet.
but his prophecies sometimes fall short. Last year, he lost $1 million in a public bet after wrongly predicting a massive surge in the price of Bitcoin.
Balaji Srinivasan, a tech mogul and cryptocurrency advocate, made a bet in March that bitcoin would reach $1 million in value within 90 days. Halfway in, he’s raising the white flag.
"Balaji has the highest rate of output per minute of good new ideas of anybody I’ve ever met,” wrote Marc Andreessen, co-founder of the VC firm Andreessen-Horowitz, in a blurb for Balaji’s 2022 book, The Network State: How to Start a New Country. The book outlines a plan for tech plutocrats to exit democracy and establish new sovereign territories. I mentioned Balaji’s ideas in two previous stories about Network State-related efforts in California—a proposed tech colony called California Forever and the tech-funded campaign to capture San Francisco’s government.
"What I’m really calling for is something like tech Zionism,” he said, after comparing his movement to those started by the biblical Abraham, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism), Theodor Herzl (“spiritual father” of the state of Israel), and Lee Kuan Yew (former authoritarian ruler of Singapore). Balaji then revealed his shocking ideas for a tech-governed city where citizens loyal to tech companies would form a new political tribe clad in gray t-shirts. “And if you see another Gray on the street…you do the nod,” he said, during a four-hour talk on the Moment of Zen podcast. “You’re a fellow Gray.”
Everyone would be welcome at the Gray Pride march—everyone, that is, except the Blues. Srinivasan defines the Blue political tribe as the liberal voters he implies are responsible for the city’s problems. Blues will be banned from the Gray-controlled zones, said Balaji, unlike Republicans (“Reds”).
"Woke Capital is the ideology of America’s ruling class as explicated by America’s ruling newspaper, The New York Times,” wrote Balaji in his book. “It’s capitalism that enables decentralized censorship, cancel culture, and American empire.” Times publisher A.G. Sulzberger, whom Balaji characterizes as a “rich white male nepotist,” especially irks him. “What if Sulzberger is more like Keyser Söze?” wrote Balaji, comparing Sulzberger to the mysterious criminal mastermind in 1995’s The Usual Suspects. “What if his employees are highly self-interested professional prevaricators? What if they’ve always been like that?
If you pitched this idea as the basis for a dystopian, sci-fi book, I would hope any editor/agent would reject it as too simplistically and cartoonishly evil. How do you even respond to this? If...
If you pitched this idea as the basis for a dystopian, sci-fi book, I would hope any editor/agent would reject it as too simplistically and cartoonishly evil.
How do you even respond to this? If he wasn't extremely wealthy, he would be completely ignored.
I think the problematic part is the support he gets from some of the foundational players in tech like Andreessen Horowitz and YCombinator. His positions aren't just popular within those groups,...
I think the problematic part is the support he gets from some of the foundational players in tech like Andreessen Horowitz and YCombinator. His positions aren't just popular within those groups, many are vocally supportive of his beliefs. With their oversized influence on the industry at large I'd say it's an issue.
"Balaji has the highest rate of output per minute of good new ideas of anybody I’ve ever met,” wrote Marc Andreessen, co-founder of the VC firm Andreessen-Horowitz, in a blurb for Balaji’s 2022 book, The Network State: How to Start a New Country.
or
Still, his appetite for autocracy is bottomless. Last October, Balaji hosted the first-ever Network State Conference. Garry Tan—the current Y Combinator CEO who’s attempting to spearhead a political takeover of San Francisco—participated in an interview with Balaji and cast the effort as part of the Network State movement. Tan, who made headlines in January after tweeting “die slow motherfuckers” at local progressive politicians, frames his campaign as an experiment in “moderate” politics. But in a podcast interview one month before the conference, Balaji laid out a more disturbing and extreme vision.
Does this sort of thing have any chance at all of being popular with San Francisco voters? I don’t follow politics there very closely, but it seems like it would be a radical shift. It doesn’t...
Does this sort of thing have any chance at all of being popular with San Francisco voters? I don’t follow politics there very closely, but it seems like it would be a radical shift.
It doesn’t seem like edgy rhetoric that’s popular with a certain crowd on Twitter would work in real life with Democrats and leftists. Or at least, not this kind. We have had billionaires try to spend their way into political office unsuccessfully before.
I don't think this will gain real traction, but I do think they have the finances and connections to effect change in less overt ways. Not in some "elite cabal" kind of way, just in funding...
I don't think this will gain real traction, but I do think they have the finances and connections to effect change in less overt ways. Not in some "elite cabal" kind of way, just in funding legislation campaigns that roll back rights on consumer/worker protections (a la prop 22 with uber/lyft) or police reform that pushes more extreme restrictions on the homeless with any tangible impact on the actual causes of homelessness. And to be honest, it's what gives me pause about projects they fund like the California Forever development we've chatted about before. Balaji likely won't see office, but some of his more radical positions might find their way into law or municipal code.
Reds, blues, and grays? Gray pride parade? This boy is absolutely unhinged. What is it with tech moguls and being 13 year old boys at heart? I mean I know a lot of it is having access to way too...
Reds, blues, and grays? Gray pride parade? This boy is absolutely unhinged. What is it with tech moguls and being 13 year old boys at heart? I mean I know a lot of it is having access to way too much capital and being surrounded by yes men, but is there more to it than that? Is it because tech is so populated by bros and heavily insulated? Even as someone who lives in SF and has spent most of their life in silicon valley it confuses me.
Seeing as the U.S. is lousy with reactionary drivel, being centrist here requires by definition incorporating some element of reactionary drivel into itself. But this is more important to...
Seeing as the U.S. is lousy with reactionary drivel, being centrist here requires by definition incorporating some element of reactionary drivel into itself.
Most people who take up a centrist label, I find, have been those exhausted by politics such that they want no involvement and assume out of simple tiredness that "both sides must have problems an be right/wrong about some things." This is hogwash for the reason linked above, but crucially, this is one of the best ways to fall down a rabbit hole into reactionary rhetoric; taking a "eh, everyone sucks" attitude is a great way to let your guard down and fall afoul of far-right propaganda.
I don't blame people for being tired of politics. But centrism is not the intelligent, reasoned answer people take it for; it is, by and large, willful ignorance.
You know, I've become very sympathetic to the idea that the systems of power acquisition we have in place naturally cater to those with psychopathic tendencies. A limited capacity for empathy and...
You know, I've become very sympathetic to the idea that the systems of power acquisition we have in place naturally cater to those with psychopathic tendencies. A limited capacity for empathy and remorse, deficits in socially-related cognition, deep-seated issues masked by desperately projecting confidence - these are traits that might allow you to make the types of unreasonable and harmful decisions that can take you to the top and line your pockets along the way. It lines up a bit too well.
Somewhere along the line, a threshold is crossed, and now you're describing your feverish dreams of controlling the world around you with every scam in the book; unfortunately, there's a cheering audience of those who think just like you. Together, you'll achieve nothing like what you've planned, but you'll leave your footprint on the world, and none of it will have made you happy. It's a shame for everyone involved, and everyone affected.
Really curious to how hacker news would respond to this ….. YC seems really cool but their current leadership seems a bit sus from the outside. Anyone have personal experience?
Really curious to how hacker news would respond to this …..
YC seems really cool but their current leadership seems a bit sus from the outside. Anyone have personal experience?
That hasn't been my impression. Users on HN seem much more technically literate but notably more socially regressive (and particularly pronatalist) than those of /r/technology.
That hasn't been my impression. Users on HN seem much more technically literate but notably more socially regressive (and particularly pronatalist) than those of /r/technology.
I would also say that generally, dissenting opinions tend to fare better on HN as long as they’re well-written and not overly emotional or inflammatory. r/technology on the other hand tends to...
I would also say that generally, dissenting opinions tend to fare better on HN as long as they’re well-written and not overly emotional or inflammatory. r/technology on the other hand tends to downvote-bomb posts that don’t align with the sub’s prevailing opinions no matter how well-written they are.
Hacker News, the site, is a great forum to read, especially if you work in tech. Partially for the fact that it has a high ratio of Noteworthy In The Field folks posting, but mostly for the fact...
Hacker News, the site, is a great forum to read, especially if you work in tech. Partially for the fact that it has a high ratio of Noteworthy In The Field folks posting, but mostly for the fact that DanG is an amazing mod, and keeps the place civil and focused. On the startup side of things, well... Yeah.
Unless you're a queer, trans, woman or minority working in tech, care about inequality, support affirmative action, are for diversity, equity, and inclusion, believe venture capitalism is largely...
Hacker News, the site, is a great forum to read, especially if you work in tech
Unless you're a queer, trans, woman or minority working in tech, care about inequality, support affirmative action, are for diversity, equity, and inclusion, believe venture capitalism is largely what's killing the net, and/or don't believe the bullshit about "meritocracy" in the tech/programming industry... in which case HN and its Stallman worshipping, techbro heavy userbase are often actively hostile and supremely aggravating to interact with. That's why I rarely venture back to HN these days now that we have Tildes.
Hard agree. I'm always surprised when folks praise it. It used to have more of an early 2000s slashdot feel in the comments, at some point it became less open.
Hard agree. I'm always surprised when folks praise it. It used to have more of an early 2000s slashdot feel in the comments, at some point it became less open.
I propose we grant their little enclave independence. Then immediately embargo them. Cut off all external flows of water, food, and power. I'm sure the tech geniuses will be able to figure things...
I propose we grant their little enclave independence. Then immediately embargo them. Cut off all external flows of water, food, and power. I'm sure the tech geniuses will be able to figure things out. Move fast and break things, starting with the water mains.
This is the most delusional, insane thing I have ever read in my life. How are they even going to get funding for this? It's like a real life version of Bioshock's rapture without the cool...
This is the most delusional, insane thing I have ever read in my life. How are they even going to get funding for this? It's like a real life version of Bioshock's rapture without the cool superpowers
I feel like everyone (especially rich people) have insane ideas regarding society and governance but they're only that, ideas. If this dude pitches his idea to the public and attempts to rule over land then he'll be screwed from the start. Of course, people throughout history have succeeded with their ideas and destroyed nations so it's not out of the equation...
As much craziness as I see in the proposal, this really gave me pause. If someone is related to a cop they should be generously granted a position as a security guard? I guess none of them would...
“Grays should embrace the police, okay? All-in on the police,” said Srinivasan. “What does that mean? That’s, as I said, banquets. That means every policeman’s son, daughter, wife, cousin, you know, sibling, whatever, should get a job at a tech company in security.”
As much craziness as I see in the proposal, this really gave me pause. If someone is related to a cop they should be generously granted a position as a security guard? I guess none of them would be special enough to get a stem job, because ... genetics or something?
Maybe I read "job at a tech company in security" wrong, but my impression was that this is less about a literal "job in security", and instead more about job security, as in a guaranteed position...
Maybe I read "job at a tech company in security" wrong, but my impression was that this is less about a literal "job in security", and instead more about job security, as in a guaranteed position of sorts. But I also imagined that to be an offer for a pencil pusher type job, simply because that seems about the level of respect they'd offer for their own personal gain.
The phrasing does feel a bit odd, but English is only a second language to me so what do I know.
Because this is the rabbit hole I'm going down this morning Próspera the special autonomous zone whose operating company is financed by Srinivasan (and Peter Thiel and Marc Andreeson) California...
Because this is the rabbit hole I'm going down this morning
Próspera the special autonomous zone whose operating company is financed by Srinivasan (and Peter Thiel and Marc Andreeson)
"What I'm really calling for is something like Tech Zionism. And there are different versions of that, which are "reform in place" and "emigrate." And the Network State – the book – is about the bare land version of it – right? – which is already being tried. You're seeing it in Northern California, you know, this thing, this project. You're seeing it with Creator Cabins and Culdesac and Praxis. There's like 50 of these projects now around the world."
Praxis - backed by Srinivasan and Thiel among others, that seems aligned with being a "crypto state" but also has some real white supremacy vibes.
An internal Praxis branding guide accessed by The New York Times denounced "enemies of vitality," and extolled the “traditional, European/Western beauty standards on which the civilized world, at its best points, has always found success.”[2] The document revealed an interest in attracting "hot girls" and tech talent
Spectra Cities - I can't find anything about it that isn't from them. That's weird.
Neom, Saudi Arabia - launched in 2017, required the eviction of a local tribe of people with some sentenced to death for refusing to move.
Telosa - headed by Marc Lore, little in the way of actual development.
Wow, even Dr. Evil would be stunned after hearing this. I feel like anyone capable of pulling off such a thing wouldn't let anyone know about it until it was done. It's a scary thought that...
Wow, even Dr. Evil would be stunned after hearing this. I feel like anyone capable of pulling off such a thing wouldn't let anyone know about it until it was done.
It's a scary thought that there's always a chance they'll pull it off. I suppose the good news is the rate of rich people being killed by giant falling X's might increase?
Not a single commenter here realizes this is satire? He’s describing the current landscape. He inserted “grays” as a new team, but any time he talks about a “gray,” he’s talking about Democrats...
Not a single commenter here realizes this is satire?
He’s describing the current landscape. He inserted “grays” as a new team, but any time he talks about a “gray,” he’s talking about Democrats today. When describing how to treat “blues,” he’s describing how Democrats treat Conservatives today.
This is so obviously a ridiculous, Swiftian proposal and yet everyone here believes it.
That's a huge claim given zero evidence of that and your claims about his comparisons don't hold up at all. The article cites multiple real life connections to authoritarian beliefs and I can find...
That's a huge claim given zero evidence of that and your claims about his comparisons don't hold up at all.
The article cites multiple real life connections to authoritarian beliefs and I can find no review of his book mentioning satire. It could be an attempt at it, but it seems to align with his other public comments. The article itself covers multiple podcast interviews where he says the same things, over and over.
This is coded language for contemporary Democrats? You don't need to overcomplicate things. He didn't invent "gray tribe", it's from a Star Slate Codex blog post from 2013 and he refers to a...
any time he talks about a “gray,” he’s talking about Democrats today
This is coded language for contemporary Democrats?
“Grays should embrace the police, okay? All-in on the police,” said Srinivasan. “What does that mean? That’s, as I said, banquets. That means every policeman’s son, daughter, wife, cousin, you know, sibling, whatever, should get a job at a tech company in security.”
In exchange for extra food and jobs, cops would pledge loyalty to the Grays. Srinivasan recommends asking officers a series of questions to ascertain their political leanings. For example: “Did you want to take the sign off of Elon’s building?”
You don't need to overcomplicate things. He didn't invent "gray tribe", it's from a Star Slate Codex blog post from 2013 and he refers to a blue-gray axis where technologist/libertarian/borderless grays create new wonderful things while the establishment blues try to bridle them. He's a pal of Thiel and Elon Musk and resents oversight from democratic institutions.
Hyperbole and "jokes" can be ways of signalling intent or measuring your audience without taking the risk of having an attackable position, but he doesn't come across as a 52 yo 4chan troll like Musk, whose satire is reduced to a sneering and insincere rhetoric of convenience.
Unless you think the last 10 years of his life have been performance art, his preferences are roughly in line with what was said. Maybe some of it was exagerrated for a laugh or to stretch a presentation, but he wants the sort of influence over cops/media/politicians that would have allowed him (Musk/Thiel/etc.) to ignore pesky laws and regulations that are just artifacts of a broken democracy.
Can we please, please, return to progressive taxation with a 90% top bracket? I am so tired of these feudal overlord-wannabes, who want everyone to tug forelocks and bow to them. Anything to...
Can we please, please, return to progressive taxation with a 90% top bracket? I am so tired of these feudal overlord-wannabes, who want everyone to tug forelocks and bow to them. Anything to mitigate the tech bro delusion that extreme wealth is the product of genius and omni-competence, or should confer infinite power over ordinary mortals.
I agree that would solve a lot of problems. I get why there are super rich people who want to become little kings. What I don't get is how they manage to have so many followers. Why would you want...
I agree that would solve a lot of problems.
I get why there are super rich people who want to become little kings. What I don't get is how they manage to have so many followers. Why would you want to choose serfdom? Like he promises the grey shirts these tiny perks. Not the chance to reap in any sizable benefit financially or socially, not the ability to determine their working conditions or any mention of life outside of being an employee basically owned entirely, and people want to buy into that? Why?
Temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome. People who follow these fascist assholes don't think they'll be the serfs, they think they'll eventually be leading alongside them with serfs of their...
Why would you want to choose serfdom?
Temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome. People who follow these fascist assholes don't think they'll be the serfs, they think they'll eventually be leading alongside them with serfs of their own to command.
Because freedom is difficult, beset with myriad challenges and anxieties? I can think of any number of psychological safety needs that being a member of the Greys might satisfy. There are...
Because freedom is difficult, beset with myriad challenges and anxieties? I can think of any number of psychological safety needs that being a member of the Greys might satisfy. There are certainly folks who think that a successful person must be worth following in the hopes that it will rub off (or at least leave crumbs worth consuming). There are people who will gang with a bully so that the bully and gang won't turn on them. There are people who cherish order that seems to be arranged on their behalf.
And being a "Blue" simply means that one most cherishes a different subset of needs, like self-expression, egalitarianism, human rights, and the like.
Even when the nominal rates at the top bracket were 92%, the effective rate was closer to 46%. Significantly more than today, but not some mythical 90% that it was on paper.
Even when the nominal rates at the top bracket were 92%, the effective rate was closer to 46%. Significantly more than today, but not some mythical 90% that it was on paper.
In Ancient Greece, there is process called ostracism, where a citizen is banished (after a vote) from the city for ten years because they were considered a threat/tyrant. We should bring it back...
In Ancient Greece, there is process called ostracism, where a citizen is banished (after a vote) from the city for ten years because they were considered a threat/tyrant. We should bring it back for people like him.
Can we stop letting conservative business fucks (full-on fascists in this case) claim the word "tech?" Actual engineers and technologists are a varied bunch, with actual skills, and don't tend to...
Can we stop letting conservative business fucks (full-on fascists in this case) claim the word "tech?" Actual engineers and technologists are a varied bunch, with actual skills, and don't tend to think much of managerial/money people...unlike the Ivy business school frat crowd that has seized control of consumer technology companies, eliminating the product-focused cultures and turning everything into engagement optimization and nickel-and-diming.
The article clearly outlines that this guy is a raging fascist. It's like he read the Nazi playbook and decided to apply it to corporate takeover of a democratic state.
The article clearly outlines that this guy is a raging fascist. It's like he read the Nazi playbook and decided to apply it to corporate takeover of a democratic state.
This is what I really detest about technology, the industry I begrudgingly work in.
It's absolutely packed to the brim with people that think that because they know javascript better than 99.99999% of the population, that extends to their competence at everything. Political science, farming, automobiles, manufacturing, race relations, journalism, you name it. There's a certain breed of tech bros that assume that because most people think python is hard, and they're good at it, that must extrapolate to everything else actually being easy, and the only reason we haven't solved every other problem is because all of the super smart geniuses are too busy making face filters for instagram or whatever. They assume they can just hop into an industry and "disrupt" it because they know so much better than the people who have spent their entire lives doing those things.
The fact is that most fields are hard. The reason they have unsolved problems are because those problems are hard, not because the people working in them aren't talented. There's nothing special about programming that makes it particularly difficult. Traffic engineering, solving income inequality, environmental science, accounting, you name it are all equally difficult and require just as much talent in order to solve the issues involved with them.
The main difference is that while most plumbers will freely admit that they're in way over their heads when it comes to say; psychology, this breed of tech bro will, without knowing the first thing about the field, immediately think "The people doing this work are just idiots unlike me. Let me apply technology to this and I'll have all the major issues solved within a year".
There is this huge pedantic energy amongst programmers, and as a programmer it is more painful to have conversations with other programmers than "everyday" folk, who can recognize the limits of their knowledge.
Even talking to other programmers about programming can be incredibly frustrating. Some of us apparently just can't conceive of ever being wrong or knowing less than another person.
Which is surprising considering that programming is just an act of repeatedly learning how wrong you are about things
Then you’ve got middle-agers like me who are so painfully aware of the Dunning–Kruger effect and riddled with imposter syndrome that we plateau and are suddenly unable to meaningfully progress in our tech careers while the 19yo “10x programmers” code circles around us for half the pay.
Sorry for the angst, didn’t mean to suck you all into my midlife crisis. But I think there is some kind of flywheel effect at play here, where this industry rewards “that type” of person and casts aside folks like me.
What kind of person are you?
I don’t think you need to view everything in terms of Dunning-Kruger. I have needed to learn a lot of new stuff at my new job. Every time I thought it would be easier than it ended up being. But I still managed to make things work. You can view that negatively - or you can accept that it’s just how most people approach new things. As long as you actually end up learning the skills who gives a damn how over-confident you were at the beginning?
Imposter syndrome also gets solved by doing things. Maybe you’re not a “real” engineer, dev-ops, manager, whatever. But if you can do the work of one then anyone who questions your credentials can get fucked.
It becomes exhausting to have to prove yourself over and over again if you don't look the part. Somewhere in that exhaustion, doubt begins to seep in.
Actually I think I understand that. I suspect I “look the part” and may have discounted the privilege that gives me.
In a smaller company this could be less of a problem. Even if you are fighting an uphill battle to prove yourself, the number of people you will need to prove yourself to is limited.
Often times figuring out a solution to the main issue isn't the problem. I'm sure you could pull any random researcher or engineer off the street and they could give you a solution to a problem in their industry within minutes. The problem is usually that there are multiple solutions and competing interests in most large-scale issues. The real roadblock is finding a solution that balances everyone's concerns enough to get the buy-in needed to pass. That's not an engineering problem; it's a political one.
Anyone who thinks the solution to problems like this is simple is coming at it from the perspective that dissenting opinion is irrelevant. It's a dictatorial mindset.
There's this weird bottomless insecurity to it all, though. It's like admitting you don't know something is equivalent to saying, "I'm stupid".
I've met (and possibly been...) so many over-specialized, over-opinionated people in all kinds of fields - engineering, medicine, sciences, law, who suffer from ultracrepidarianism.
It's as though they've spent their entire lives with only one lens through which to view reality, and anything that's unfocused isn't real or consequential. That purblind focus means that they can opine on any problem, without any idea of the complexities that someone familiar with the subject might spot. Which is why William Shockley thought he understood genetics well enough to justify his preference for racism, or Jordan Peterson's strange synthesis of psychology, sociobiology, and religion, or me writing here (I don't propose to run the government for anyone, and I'm not a billionaire, so peace out).
'''It's absolutely packed to the brim with people that think that because they know javascript better than 99.99999% of the population, that extends to their competence at everything.'''
Didn't Socrates (or was it Plato?) call this out as the root of most problems? (Except I think it was carpenters or something in his example).
It really does seem like "failing Social Studies" is a hard requirement for these Silicon Valley types.
for some context,
In other words, a staggeringly stupid bet.
If you pitched this idea as the basis for a dystopian, sci-fi book, I would hope any editor/agent would reject it as too simplistically and cartoonishly evil.
How do you even respond to this? If he wasn't extremely wealthy, he would be completely ignored.
Is he all that popular an influencer?
I think the problematic part is the support he gets from some of the foundational players in tech like Andreessen Horowitz and YCombinator. His positions aren't just popular within those groups, many are vocally supportive of his beliefs. With their oversized influence on the industry at large I'd say it's an issue.
or
Does this sort of thing have any chance at all of being popular with San Francisco voters? I don’t follow politics there very closely, but it seems like it would be a radical shift.
It doesn’t seem like edgy rhetoric that’s popular with a certain crowd on Twitter would work in real life with Democrats and leftists. Or at least, not this kind. We have had billionaires try to spend their way into political office unsuccessfully before.
I don't think this will gain real traction, but I do think they have the finances and connections to effect change in less overt ways. Not in some "elite cabal" kind of way, just in funding legislation campaigns that roll back rights on consumer/worker protections (a la prop 22 with uber/lyft) or police reform that pushes more extreme restrictions on the homeless with any tangible impact on the actual causes of homelessness. And to be honest, it's what gives me pause about projects they fund like the California Forever development we've chatted about before. Balaji likely won't see office, but some of his more radical positions might find their way into law or municipal code.
Reds, blues, and grays? Gray pride parade? This boy is absolutely unhinged. What is it with tech moguls and being 13 year old boys at heart? I mean I know a lot of it is having access to way too much capital and being surrounded by yes men, but is there more to it than that? Is it because tech is so populated by bros and heavily insulated? Even as someone who lives in SF and has spent most of their life in silicon valley it confuses me.
To be fair, centrists have the same approach where they believes their reactionary drivel is somehow above the realm of left/right politics.
Citation needed about centrism being reactionary drivel.
Seeing as the U.S. is lousy with reactionary drivel, being centrist here requires by definition incorporating some element of reactionary drivel into itself.
But this is more important to remember, I think.
Most people who take up a centrist label, I find, have been those exhausted by politics such that they want no involvement and assume out of simple tiredness that "both sides must have problems an be right/wrong about some things." This is hogwash for the reason linked above, but crucially, this is one of the best ways to fall down a rabbit hole into reactionary rhetoric; taking a "eh, everyone sucks" attitude is a great way to let your guard down and fall afoul of far-right propaganda.
I don't blame people for being tired of politics. But centrism is not the intelligent, reasoned answer people take it for; it is, by and large, willful ignorance.
You know, I've become very sympathetic to the idea that the systems of power acquisition we have in place naturally cater to those with psychopathic tendencies. A limited capacity for empathy and remorse, deficits in socially-related cognition, deep-seated issues masked by desperately projecting confidence - these are traits that might allow you to make the types of unreasonable and harmful decisions that can take you to the top and line your pockets along the way. It lines up a bit too well.
Somewhere along the line, a threshold is crossed, and now you're describing your feverish dreams of controlling the world around you with every scam in the book; unfortunately, there's a cheering audience of those who think just like you. Together, you'll achieve nothing like what you've planned, but you'll leave your footprint on the world, and none of it will have made you happy. It's a shame for everyone involved, and everyone affected.
"We're uh, allied with exclusively cops and republicans, and our enemy is the democrats. we're totally not just republicans though! i pinky promise!"
Really curious to how hacker news would respond to this …..
YC seems really cool but their current leadership seems a bit sus from the outside. Anyone have personal experience?
Probably much the same. The hackernews crowd is much the same as the one that browses /r/technology, for better or for worse.
That hasn't been my impression. Users on HN seem much more technically literate but notably more socially regressive (and particularly pronatalist) than those of /r/technology.
I would also say that generally, dissenting opinions tend to fare better on HN as long as they’re well-written and not overly emotional or inflammatory. r/technology on the other hand tends to downvote-bomb posts that don’t align with the sub’s prevailing opinions no matter how well-written they are.
Hacker News, the site, is a great forum to read, especially if you work in tech. Partially for the fact that it has a high ratio of Noteworthy In The Field folks posting, but mostly for the fact that DanG is an amazing mod, and keeps the place civil and focused. On the startup side of things, well... Yeah.
Unless you're a queer, trans, woman or minority working in tech, care about inequality, support affirmative action, are for diversity, equity, and inclusion, believe venture capitalism is largely what's killing the net, and/or don't believe the bullshit about "meritocracy" in the tech/programming industry... in which case HN and its Stallman worshipping, techbro heavy userbase are often actively hostile and supremely aggravating to interact with. That's why I rarely venture back to HN these days now that we have Tildes.
Hard agree. I'm always surprised when folks praise it. It used to have more of an early 2000s slashdot feel in the comments, at some point it became less open.
Well it got flagged less than 6 hours in, which is exactly what I expect from the orange site.
I propose we grant their little enclave independence. Then immediately embargo them. Cut off all external flows of water, food, and power. I'm sure the tech geniuses will be able to figure things out. Move fast and break things, starting with the water mains.
This is the most delusional, insane thing I have ever read in my life. How are they even going to get funding for this? It's like a real life version of Bioshock's rapture without the cool superpowers
I feel like everyone (especially rich people) have insane ideas regarding society and governance but they're only that, ideas. If this dude pitches his idea to the public and attempts to rule over land then he'll be screwed from the start. Of course, people throughout history have succeeded with their ideas and destroyed nations so it's not out of the equation...
As much craziness as I see in the proposal, this really gave me pause. If someone is related to a cop they should be generously granted a position as a security guard? I guess none of them would be special enough to get a stem job, because ... genetics or something?
Maybe I read "job at a tech company in security" wrong, but my impression was that this is less about a literal "job in security", and instead more about job security, as in a guaranteed position of sorts. But I also imagined that to be an offer for a pencil pusher type job, simply because that seems about the level of respect they'd offer for their own personal gain.
The phrasing does feel a bit odd, but English is only a second language to me so what do I know.
Because this is the rabbit hole I'm going down this morning
Próspera the special autonomous zone whose operating company is financed by Srinivasan (and Peter Thiel and Marc Andreeson)
California Forever
Balaji says California Forever is Network State
4 more planned tech utopias
Praxis - backed by Srinivasan and Thiel among others, that seems aligned with being a "crypto state" but also has some real white supremacy vibes.
Spectra Cities - I can't find anything about it that isn't from them. That's weird.
Neom, Saudi Arabia - launched in 2017, required the eviction of a local tribe of people with some sentenced to death for refusing to move.
Telosa - headed by Marc Lore, little in the way of actual development.
Wow, even Dr. Evil would be stunned after hearing this. I feel like anyone capable of pulling off such a thing wouldn't let anyone know about it until it was done.
It's a scary thought that there's always a chance they'll pull it off. I suppose the good news is the rate of rich people being killed by giant falling X's might increase?
Not a single commenter here realizes this is satire?
He’s describing the current landscape. He inserted “grays” as a new team, but any time he talks about a “gray,” he’s talking about Democrats today. When describing how to treat “blues,” he’s describing how Democrats treat Conservatives today.
This is so obviously a ridiculous, Swiftian proposal and yet everyone here believes it.
That's a huge claim given zero evidence of that and your claims about his comparisons don't hold up at all.
The article cites multiple real life connections to authoritarian beliefs and I can find no review of his book mentioning satire. It could be an attempt at it, but it seems to align with his other public comments. The article itself covers multiple podcast interviews where he says the same things, over and over.
Can you provide evidence?
This is coded language for contemporary Democrats?
You don't need to overcomplicate things. He didn't invent "gray tribe", it's from a Star Slate Codex blog post from 2013 and he refers to a blue-gray axis where technologist/libertarian/borderless grays create new wonderful things while the establishment blues try to bridle them. He's a pal of Thiel and Elon Musk and resents oversight from democratic institutions.
Hyperbole and "jokes" can be ways of signalling intent or measuring your audience without taking the risk of having an attackable position, but he doesn't come across as a 52 yo 4chan troll like Musk, whose satire is reduced to a sneering and insincere rhetoric of convenience.
Unless you think the last 10 years of his life have been performance art, his preferences are roughly in line with what was said. Maybe some of it was exagerrated for a laugh or to stretch a presentation, but he wants the sort of influence over cops/media/politicians that would have allowed him (Musk/Thiel/etc.) to ignore pesky laws and regulations that are just artifacts of a broken democracy.
Can we please, please, return to progressive taxation with a 90% top bracket? I am so tired of these feudal overlord-wannabes, who want everyone to tug forelocks and bow to them. Anything to mitigate the tech bro delusion that extreme wealth is the product of genius and omni-competence, or should confer infinite power over ordinary mortals.
I agree that would solve a lot of problems.
I get why there are super rich people who want to become little kings. What I don't get is how they manage to have so many followers. Why would you want to choose serfdom? Like he promises the grey shirts these tiny perks. Not the chance to reap in any sizable benefit financially or socially, not the ability to determine their working conditions or any mention of life outside of being an employee basically owned entirely, and people want to buy into that? Why?
Temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome. People who follow these fascist assholes don't think they'll be the serfs, they think they'll eventually be leading alongside them with serfs of their own to command.
Because freedom is difficult, beset with myriad challenges and anxieties? I can think of any number of psychological safety needs that being a member of the Greys might satisfy. There are certainly folks who think that a successful person must be worth following in the hopes that it will rub off (or at least leave crumbs worth consuming). There are people who will gang with a bully so that the bully and gang won't turn on them. There are people who cherish order that seems to be arranged on their behalf.
And being a "Blue" simply means that one most cherishes a different subset of needs, like self-expression, egalitarianism, human rights, and the like.
Even when the nominal rates at the top bracket were 92%, the effective rate was closer to 46%. Significantly more than today, but not some mythical 90% that it was on paper.
In Ancient Greece, there is process called ostracism, where a citizen is banished (after a vote) from the city for ten years because they were considered a threat/tyrant. We should bring it back for people like him.
What the fuck did I just read. This is just fascism. Did that not get into his thick ass skull despite his mUlTiPlE sTaNfOrD dEgReEs?
Can we stop letting conservative business fucks (full-on fascists in this case) claim the word "tech?" Actual engineers and technologists are a varied bunch, with actual skills, and don't tend to think much of managerial/money people...unlike the Ivy business school frat crowd that has seized control of consumer technology companies, eliminating the product-focused cultures and turning everything into engagement optimization and nickel-and-diming.
The article clearly outlines that this guy is a raging fascist. It's like he read the Nazi playbook and decided to apply it to corporate takeover of a democratic state.
Yes, I know. I was just stating my outrage.
Multiple degree and fascism can exist together.