54 votes

“I don’t see how we can save it.”

45 comments

  1. [14]
    smores
    Link
    I haven't written about this much before on Tildes, but for the past four years, I've been locked in a bizarro bureaucratic nightmare over our home’s failing septic system with the governing...

    I haven't written about this much before on Tildes, but for the past four years, I've been locked in a bizarro bureaucratic nightmare over our home’s failing septic system with the governing bodies from our township, county, state, region, and the adjacent town. A little over a month ago, we finally gave up on our appeal to be connected to the public sewer system, which runs directly in front of our property. We'd been rejected several times by the adjacent town, who had the final say, despite having support from every other body and expert involved. Today, we found out that in order to install a new septic system, we'll need to kill and remove the beautiful Japanese Maple tree in our backyard, which is one of our favorite parts of our home. I found myself remarkably saddened by this news, and wrote this short piece to express how I was feeling.

    52 votes
    1. [8]
      vord
      Link Parent
      I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I always despise people who hide behind nebulous "wish I could help, but it says right there that I can't." Local politicians always have a way to grant...

      I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I always despise people who hide behind nebulous "wish I could help, but it says right there that I can't." Local politicians always have a way to grant variances. Your case is an obvious one where there is a deficiency in the law, because nobody benefits from private septic systems anywhere there is a public line.

      22 votes
      1. [5]
        smores
        Link Parent
        Thank you. Our local politics around the sewer system are unbelievably contrived and have been for decades. You’re right, of course — connecting to a public sewer is an obvious win for every...

        Thank you. Our local politics around the sewer system are unbelievably contrived and have been for decades. You’re right, of course — connecting to a public sewer is an obvious win for every party, including the Borough.

        14 votes
        1. [4]
          updawg
          Link Parent
          Have you gone to a city council meeting? I'm not an expert in local politics and municipal rules, but this sounds like the thing that could essentially be resolved in 15 minutes at one of those...

          Have you gone to a city council meeting? I'm not an expert in local politics and municipal rules, but this sounds like the thing that could essentially be resolved in 15 minutes at one of those during a public comment period.

          8 votes
          1. [3]
            smores
            Link Parent
            Unfortunately, yes, many. We’ve been to Township Committee meetings, had private conversations with the Township Mayor and Principal Planner for the County, been to Borough Council meetings, and...

            Unfortunately, yes, many. We’ve been to Township Committee meetings, had private conversations with the Township Mayor and Principal Planner for the County, been to Borough Council meetings, and had private conversations with Borough Council members. We were promised a meeting with the Water & Sewer Committee for the Borough, only to learn after the fact that they decided to meet without us, without notifying us, and without including the one committee member that was in favor of our connection to the sewer (we’re told it was a “miscommunication”).

            10 votes
            1. [2]
              updawg
              Link Parent
              One last thing because this is Tildes where we're all perfect citizens and not slacktivists in any way, no siree Bob...have you tried running for a seat on the council? We all know local politics...

              One last thing because this is Tildes where we're all perfect citizens and not slacktivists in any way, no siree Bob...have you tried running for a seat on the council? We all know local politics is how you can make a real impact.

              8 votes
              1. smores
                Link Parent
                I don’t actually live in the municipality that determines access to the sewer — I live 100 yards outside its boundaries, in the township. So I couldn’t run for a seat on the council that would...

                I don’t actually live in the municipality that determines access to the sewer — I live 100 yards outside its boundaries, in the township. So I couldn’t run for a seat on the council that would have power over this decision, anyway :(

                15 votes
      2. [2]
        papasquat
        Link Parent
        It sounds like the issue is that they're outside of the boundaries of the jurisdiction they're trying to connect to the sewer system of. If that's the case, it makes sense that the town wouldn't...

        It sounds like the issue is that they're outside of the boundaries of the jurisdiction they're trying to connect to the sewer system of. If that's the case, it makes sense that the town wouldn't allow them to hook up to their sewer; they don't pay taxes to that municipality.

        3 votes
        1. smores
          Link Parent
          It’s true, but it’s more complicated than that. The sewer system is funded directly by sewerage fees, not by property taxes, which we would be paying.

          It’s true, but it’s more complicated than that. The sewer system is funded directly by sewerage fees, not by property taxes, which we would be paying.

          6 votes
    2. [2]
      eggpl4nt
      Link Parent
      As a massive tree lover, this is so heartbreaking to read. That is so utterly unfair.

      As a massive tree lover, this is so heartbreaking to read. That is so utterly unfair.

      20 votes
      1. smores
        Link Parent
        Thanks for saying so, it’s really reassuring to hear that this would affect other folks, too. I was honestly surprised at how deeply sad I felt when I found out.

        Thanks for saying so, it’s really reassuring to hear that this would affect other folks, too. I was honestly surprised at how deeply sad I felt when I found out.

        13 votes
    3. [3]
      chocobean
      Link Parent
      It's a magnificent tree, I'm so sorry for your loss. Alternatively, have you talked to as many septic designers as you can to see if you can come up with an alternative? What if you installed a...

      It's a magnificent tree, I'm so sorry for your loss.

      Alternatively, have you talked to as many septic designers as you can to see if you can come up with an alternative? What if you installed a burn it all up toilet at home? I'm just throwing out ideas here

      1. [2]
        smores
        Link Parent
        Thank you :( Unfortunately, I think the primary constraint here is actually our township health codes, which are very strict on private septic system regulation. We're already going to need...

        Thank you :(

        Unfortunately, I think the primary constraint here is actually our township health codes, which are very strict on private septic system regulation. We're already going to need waivers for several deviations just to fit this system, which is already going to be significantly smaller than it otherwise would be because we're using an advanced treatment unit.

        3 votes
        1. chocobean
          Link Parent
          *cries sad tears for your beautiful tree 。゜゜(ノД`)*゚゚・。 Make lots and lots of memories......

          *cries sad tears for your beautiful tree

          。゜゜(ノД`)*゚゚・。

          Make lots and lots of memories......

          3 votes
  2. [21]
    Hobofarmer
    Link
    I don't have much to add. My only thought would be to take some leaves to press and display, a sort of last testament to the beauty that bureaucratic indifference can destroy. Is it possible to...

    I don't have much to add. My only thought would be to take some leaves to press and display, a sort of last testament to the beauty that bureaucratic indifference can destroy.

    Is it possible to use some cuttings to begin growing new trees?

    14 votes
    1. [5]
      trim
      Link Parent
      Instead of taking leaves to press, can you not take it /to/ the press? It seems like the story of petty bureaucrats essentially destroying a wonderful tree because computer says no might get...

      Instead of taking leaves to press, can you not take it /to/ the press? It seems like the story of petty bureaucrats essentially destroying a wonderful tree because computer says no might get enough traction for someone in power to relent?

      24 votes
      1. [3]
        smores
        Link Parent
        I’ve gone back and forth on this, but maybe you’re right. I’ll reach out to my local paper and see if they’re interested.

        I’ve gone back and forth on this, but maybe you’re right. I’ll reach out to my local paper and see if they’re interested.

        17 votes
        1. CannibalisticApple
          Link Parent
          I was going to suggest going to the media too, and social media. Local politicians hate bad publicity, and sadly that tends to be more effective than going through the proper legal channels.

          I was going to suggest going to the media too, and social media. Local politicians hate bad publicity, and sadly that tends to be more effective than going through the proper legal channels.

          12 votes
        2. nukeman
          Link Parent
          Not just the paper. Radio, TV, social media. Put them on blast. There’s nothing more that politicians hate than embarrassment.

          Not just the paper. Radio, TV, social media. Put them on blast. There’s nothing more that politicians hate than embarrassment.

          9 votes
      2. Captain_Wacky
        Link Parent
        Yeah, Twitter/BlueSky seems like the kind of place this kind of thing might get traction on.

        Yeah, Twitter/BlueSky seems like the kind of place this kind of thing might get traction on.

        7 votes
    2. [14]
      smores
      Link Parent
      That’s a good thought. We have some friends that recently took a slice of the trunk of a downed tree to make a print of the rings, which could be really beautiful. We’re going to try to talk to an...

      That’s a good thought. We have some friends that recently took a slice of the trunk of a downed tree to make a print of the rings, which could be really beautiful.

      We’re going to try to talk to an arborist to see if there’s any possibility of saving/moving the tree (I’m not optimistic, but I want to make sure we’ve tried everything) — I’ll ask them about cuttings.

      ❤️

      6 votes
      1. [13]
        RoyalHenOil
        Link Parent
        How large is the tree? Arborists tend to be fairly conservative in my experience (they don't want to tell you that you can move the tree if there's a reasonable chance that it might not survive...

        How large is the tree? Arborists tend to be fairly conservative in my experience (they don't want to tell you that you can move the tree if there's a reasonable chance that it might not survive the process or that it might look kind of bad for a few years while it recovers), but if it's small enough that one or two people could dig up its root ball and drag it to a new position, I think you have a pretty good chance of saving it if you do it in the cooler months.

        6 votes
        1. [10]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Not an arborist, but I have done commercial landscaping, and still do relatively large landscaping projects almost every year for friends/family, so I have a fair amount of experience doing...

          Not an arborist, but I have done commercial landscaping, and still do relatively large landscaping projects almost every year for friends/family, so I have a fair amount of experience doing transplants. AFAIK, and in my actual experience working with them, Japanese Maples unfortunately tend to do very very poorly when transplanted after they've already established themselves somewhere, even with proper care afterwards. I've moved a few over the years myself, and only one of them actually survived. It was a pretty small tree though (9-ish ft tall, IIRC), and so it was relatively easy to dig it out with an appropriately sized root ball. A 2ft diameter trunk, 25-30ft crown one like @smores has would likely have a near zero chance of surviving, even if they were willing to pay the crazy amount it would cost to hire a company to come dig it out with a big enough root ball using a backhoe or one of those specialized tree spade trucks... especially since Japanese Maples need to be transplanted before they bud in the spring, but smores tree is already budding. :(

          Edit: Heh, just looked up the house on google where I transplanted the tree, and it was still alive in 2022 when the street-view picture was taken (which is about 13 years after I moved it). And yes, I did all the landscaping at that house (old pic of the front and back yard). :)

          14 votes
          1. [5]
            smores
            Link Parent
            I do appreciate this insight — I never had much faith that transplanting would really be an option. I’ll try to find and upload a picture of our tree for comparison!

            I do appreciate this insight — I never had much faith that transplanting would really be an option. I’ll try to find and upload a picture of our tree for comparison!

            5 votes
            1. [4]
              cfabbro
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Looking forward to it! I love seeing beautiful trees, but I especially love pruning and caring for them. So it genuinely breaks my heart when they die or have to be cut down. Heck, I even get mad...

              Looking forward to it! I love seeing beautiful trees, but I especially love pruning and caring for them. So it genuinely breaks my heart when they die or have to be cut down. Heck, I even get mad at city crews whenever I see them butchering (over-pruning) trees. At out last house, I gave one city worker absolute hell after I caught him basically gutting the maple in our front yard that I had been carefully sculpting for 12 years. Sigh... he turned it from a beautifully round canopied tree into an umbrella-with-giant-holes-in-it looking monstrosity. It thankfully grew back and filled in a fair amount before we sold the place, but it still looks like an umbrella now, and will never be the same thanks to that donkey's actions. :/

              3 votes
              1. [3]
                smores
                Link Parent
                Turns out, I really didn’t have many good photos of this tree, which is a crime. Here are two, one in spring, and one of the trunk in winter: https://imgur.com/a/Kgmr37N

                Turns out, I really didn’t have many good photos of this tree, which is a crime. Here are two, one in spring, and one of the trunk in winter: https://imgur.com/a/Kgmr37N

                3 votes
                1. Nsutdwa
                  Link Parent
                  Wow, that's an exceptional tree, I can see why you've grown so attached to having that in your environment.

                  Wow, that's an exceptional tree, I can see why you've grown so attached to having that in your environment.

                  4 votes
                2. cfabbro
                  Link Parent
                  Oh damn, that really is a truly awesome looking tree!!! No wonder you're so heartbroken about it potentially needing to be cut down to fix your septic tank. :(

                  Oh damn, that really is a truly awesome looking tree!!! No wonder you're so heartbroken about it potentially needing to be cut down to fix your septic tank. :(

                  2 votes
          2. [2]
            chocobean
            Link Parent
            I planted a cherry tree in my first home, and had to leave it behind 4 years later. I called and asked abortists, to see if I can gift the tree to a friend whose yard was just looking for a tree,...

            I planted a cherry tree in my first home, and had to leave it behind 4 years later. I called and asked abortists, to see if I can gift the tree to a friend whose yard was just looking for a tree, but they wouldn't even try....

            I street view to it every now and then. 6 months ago it is still alive, and quite huge now! The years I had it I pruned it to be low for collecting fruit but I guess the buyers rented the house out and let it go. It's been sitting on the market "for sale as is" for close to a year now at a ridiculous price with no inside pictures. I worry that eventually the house will be pushed over and my tree with it. They'd already ripped out all of my planter boxes and most of my perennials are not visible. My poor bowl of cream peonies....

            1 vote
            1. cfabbro
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              I occasionally street-view my old houses and other places I've done landscaping work on over the years, to check up on my work too. It's such a nice feeling seeing trees/bushes/perennials that I...

              I occasionally street-view my old houses and other places I've done landscaping work on over the years, to check up on my work too. It's such a nice feeling seeing trees/bushes/perennials that I planted still looking good and thriving years or even a decade+ later. :) But it's also such a devastating feeling seeing them not being maintained properly, or having died, or been removed. So I know that feel too. :(

              p.s. The major advantage to commercial landscaping and using similar techniques even for residential gardens is that they tend to be much longer-lasting than typical home gardening techniques. Landscape fabric under barkmulch and gravel, stone/brick edging, and proper spacing between plants to take into account their full growth size does a lot to ensure that the property will still look great even a decade+ later with minimal maintenance. So I thankfully haven't had to experience too much disappointment when looking back at old properties I've lived at or worked on for other people.

              2 votes
          3. [2]
            ShroudedScribe
            Link Parent
            I have an unrelated question that is stepping into arborist territory but curious of your opinion: have you heard of soil injections taking place in the ground near very mature trees? We're...

            I have an unrelated question that is stepping into arborist territory but curious of your opinion: have you heard of soil injections taking place in the ground near very mature trees? We're getting some landscaping quotes and one guy suggested that, which seemed a little fishy to us, especially since no other landscaper mentioned it. I can see how it would benefit new plants, but does it really make an impact on decades-old trees?

            (Our gut response was "trees in nature don't get artificial soil injections." But maybe that's faulty logic.)

            1 vote
            1. cfabbro
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Unfortunately not. I've never heard of that before, but I've been out of the game as a profession for a very long time, and tree care beyond the basics was never really my specialty to begin with....

              Unfortunately not. I've never heard of that before, but I've been out of the game as a profession for a very long time, and tree care beyond the basics was never really my specialty to begin with.

              Out of curiosity I did look it up though, and tree fertilizer/pesticide soil injection does seem to be a thing now. But unless your tree is currently having pest issues, or health issues due to poor soil quality/soil nutrient degradation, or is a tree species under known threat (e.g. from the emerald ash borer), the injections are probably unnecessary, and it was likely just an up-selling attempt.

              1 vote
        2. [2]
          smores
          Link Parent
          It’s… large. The base of the trunk is easily two feet in diameter, and the crown is probably, I don’t know, 25, 30ft across? Also this is probably something that needs to happen, like… now, which...

          It’s… large. The base of the trunk is easily two feet in diameter, and the crown is probably, I don’t know, 25, 30ft across? Also this is probably something that needs to happen, like… now, which seems like pretty bad timing, as it’s just started to bud

          5 votes
          1. RoyalHenOil
            Link Parent
            Oof, that is very large. I was hoping it would be one of those dwarf ornamental varieties — the sort that can fit in a large pot. I am so sorry. I can completely understand why you've fought so...

            Oof, that is very large. I was hoping it would be one of those dwarf ornamental varieties — the sort that can fit in a large pot.

            I am so sorry. I can completely understand why you've fought so hard to save this tree. Please do root some cuttings, and maybe offer to share some of them around with your neighbors who will no doubt be heartbroken, too.

            5 votes
    3. slade
      Link Parent
      Or, alternatively, you can drop the tree on town hall.

      Or, alternatively, you can drop the tree on town hall.

      5 votes
  3. [4]
    TheJorro
    Link
    The writing style caught me by surprise. I re-read it just to enjoy the style properly. I really like how this was expressed. But also for anyone who has had to endure some bureaucratic nonsense...

    The writing style caught me by surprise. I re-read it just to enjoy the style properly. I really like how this was expressed. But also for anyone who has had to endure some bureaucratic nonsense with a property, this is exactly how it feels.

    My hometown recently had to cut down a bunch of trees due to a beetle infestation in the forest valley behind my mother's backyard. It's caused erosion that's creeping onto the backyard rapidly. Still in the middle of this bureaucratic process, along with all the other neighbours.

    5 votes
    1. [3]
      bkimmel
      Link Parent
      Agreed on enjoying the writing style. There is some kind of quality that puts it on the edge of being sonorous or poetic without crossing either of those particular meridians.

      Agreed on enjoying the writing style. There is some kind of quality that puts it on the edge of being sonorous or poetic without crossing either of those particular meridians.

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        smores
        Link Parent
        Thank you both for the kind words. I’ve never really written anything like this before, but I’ve been reading more poetry lately and this felt like the right mode to express how I was/am feeling

        Thank you both for the kind words. I’ve never really written anything like this before, but I’ve been reading more poetry lately and this felt like the right mode to express how I was/am feeling

        3 votes
        1. scirocco
          Link Parent
          I too appreciated the style and one paragraph in I thought --- this guy should submit to The Sun Either as-is or in longer form, this kind of thing is very relatable to the audience there, and...

          I too appreciated the style and one paragraph in I thought --- this guy should submit to The Sun

          Either as-is or in longer form, this kind of thing is very relatable to the audience there, and being actually published might be a nice thing.

          Check it out. Your prose deserves it.

          https://www.thesunmagazine.org/

          2 votes
  4. [3]
    kfwyre
    Link
    This is beautifully written. I hope you’re able to find a way to save the tree, but if not know that at least you gave it a wonderful eulogy and shared its majesty and your heartbreak with others.

    This is beautifully written.

    I hope you’re able to find a way to save the tree, but if not know that at least you gave it a wonderful eulogy and shared its majesty and your heartbreak with others.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      smores
      Link Parent
      Thank you ♥ I really appreciate it.

      Thank you ♥ I really appreciate it.

      3 votes
      1. trim
        Link Parent
        Another thing you might be able to do is get one or more cuttings and make a new tree? I say this like I know anything about trees, but you might be able to save it in spirit if not in form this...

        Another thing you might be able to do is get one or more cuttings and make a new tree? I say this like I know anything about trees, but you might be able to save it in spirit if not in form this way too. Hopefully a more tree person can comment further on this.

        2 votes
  5. [2]
    Promonk
    Link
    Maybe this is a silly question, but how feasible would it be to attempt to transplant the tree? Have you gotten the opinion of an arborist? Japanese maples aren't usually the hugest of trees, even...

    Maybe this is a silly question, but how feasible would it be to attempt to transplant the tree? Have you gotten the opinion of an arborist? Japanese maples aren't usually the hugest of trees, even old ones. If Louis XIV can have an entire forest just planted at Versailles, surely saving one little old maple is attainable for us mere mortals.

    3 votes
    1. smores
      Link Parent
      We’re going to talk to an arborist, but unfortunately see cfabbro’s comment here for why this is unlikely to be successful: https://tildes.net/~life/1mwq/i_dont_see_how_we_can_save_it#comment-f71n

      We’re going to talk to an arborist, but unfortunately see cfabbro’s comment here for why this is unlikely to be successful: https://tildes.net/~life/1mwq/i_dont_see_how_we_can_save_it#comment-f71n

      5 votes
  6. zestier
    Link
    I'm also on track to lose a tree to a septic system. A large old tree that I really liked when buying my home. At least I don't have to needlessly kill it though. Mine, at according to an...

    I'm also on track to lose a tree to a septic system. A large old tree that I really liked when buying my home. At least I don't have to needlessly kill it though. Mine, at according to an arborist, has already started the process of dying. There's nothing to do but wait, periodically get dead limbs removed, and ultimately watch it perish.

    My story is not nearly as frustrating as yours though. I believe it's fate was sealed before we bought the house. Some of it roots were cut back when the septic system was replaced prior to sale. An amount of cutting back that I now believe was just too much for it to survive.

    3 votes